Re: livecode website templates

[Alex Tweedly]

On 09/03/2016 00:15, Alex Tweedly wrote:
I have a number of (small-ish) websites all done with Livecode - but 
none of them is decent enough quality to want to make them public; 
however, I'd be happy to share them off--list if you want (with a 
repeated warning that I am not really happy with any of them :-)

Feel free to look at
...
or
http://kilmelford.com

Actually, don't look at that last one - it's stopped working, as a 
side-effect of the latest "upgrade" to on-rev servers.


I'll have to find my emails from the last time this happened, and get 
the server config fixed - so don't look at kilmelford.com for now :-)


-- Alex.

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Re: livecode website templates

[Richard Gaskin]

Matt Maier wrote:

> Rght...except that I can't use "view page source" to see any
> Livecode because what's delivered to the browser is either html, css,
> or javascript, correct? So the Livecode "source" is replaced by its
> own output, which maintains the mystery.

True.  As with PHP, if you're seeing the code rather than the processed 
output, that means the system didn't work.


And like PHP, one of the reasons you may not see much source for 
complete sites is that many times what people write is purpose built for 
a specific site.


For example I could show you the code I use to produce the output at 
livecodejournal.com, but that setup is so specific to my own particular 
CMS preferences that it would be darn near useless for anyone else (even 
more so in that case since I don't use LC Server at all, so I have extra 
code to handle things like parsing incoming requests that LC Serve does 
automatically).


I'm with Phil on this one:  For a good look at a sophisticated system 
made with LC Server, check out Ralf Bitter's excellent framework, 
RevIgniter:

http://samples.on-rev.com/index.irev


> There are several small tutorials scattered around, but where can I
> see actual websites that run on Livecode? Even the on-rev.com
> examples don't actually provide the *.lc files. All I can see there
> are the isolated Livecode scripts and the static page delivered to
> the browser in html.

There are a few examples in the community where the author has the 
output and source available from the same page.  Jacque, didn't you have 
a couple of those?  Anyone here know of others?



> When you say "use Livecode for the client" do you mean a desktop
> standalone or the new HTML5 standalone?

As a general rule, I'm big on testing pre-release code but almost never 
ship anything until it goes final (a habit I picked up from the 
SuperCard for Windows days, an old joke that may make some here 
chuckle).  And I need < 6-second page load times.  So while the HTML 
export option seems to be coming along nicely, I don't expect to explore 
production solutions with it for some time.


Meanwhile, standalones are great.  Truly great.  The built-in support 
for HTTP makes so many things super-easy.  Most of the work I'm doing 
now is workgroup solutions in which the app has only enough code to 
download a small library, and that library downloads everything else, 
UI, business logic, media, data, the works.


This gives me most of the benefits that make web deployments useful: 
the client always has the most recent built, data is stored in the cloud 
so they can work from any machine and collaborate with others.


And it avoids the big downside of web development:  I don't have to 
confine my UI and feature set to fit into the constraints of a browser. 
 I can freely work with local files, the only menus in my menu bar are 
the ones my app needs, and I never have to handle the biggest nightmare 
web devs face: what happens when the user hits the Back button? (though 
in all fairness that's been somewhat mitigated by recent new event 
supported added in HTML5).


For me the best thing about using LC on both client and server is being 
able to use compressed LSON for transferring data ("LSON" is a play on 
"JSON" and "BSON", my pet name for LiveCode encoded arrays; I've found 
since I adopted that many client conversations are much simpler; 
everyone loves familiar-sounding acronyms).  Much of the work we do in 
LC is well expressed in arrays, and being able to serialize them for 
transport more simply and efficiently than any JSON library could hope 
to offer has been wonderful.


Many here have reported organizational concerns about standalone 
deployment, and I suppose if stakeholders truly need a web app they need 
a web app.


But many times they don't truly need a web app.  If there's anything 
we've learned from the Mobile Era, is that OS-native apps have a 
valuable role, able to do things far beyond what a browser can do.


For the low cost of a one-time download and installation, an 
organization can enjoy always-fresh code and cloud collaboration 
workflows, all in a UI dedicated to the task at hand.


And when those are built with LiveCode, they enjoy significant cost 
savings as well. :)


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: livecode website templates

[Alex Tweedly]

On 08/03/2016 20:28, Matt Maier wrote:

Rght...except that I can't use "view page source" to see any
Livecode because what's delivered to the browser is either html, css, or
javascript, correct?

Correct.

  So the Livecode "source" is replaced by its own
output, which maintains the mystery.

Yes.


There are several small tutorials scattered around, but where can I see
actual websites that run on Livecode? Even the on-rev.com examples don't
actually provide the *.lc files. All I can see there are the isolated
Livecode scripts and the static page delivered to the browser in html.
Unfortunately I don't know of any concrete examples. There may well be 
some  - sadly the Livecode samples and examples are in too many places, 
and it can be hard to track things down.


I have a number of (small-ish) websites all done with Livecode - but 
none of them is decent enough quality to want to make them public; 
however, I'd be happy to share them off--list if you want (with a 
repeated warning that I am not really happy with any of them :-)

Feel free to look at
http://melaniechmielewska.co.uk/
or
http://karenliversedge.com   (uses revIgniter)
or
http://kilmelford.com


revIgniter is a good framework - and it comes with a lot of code, 
including e.g. login / authentication samples - so there is a lot there, 
but it is a big learning curve.




When you say "use Livecode for the client" do you mean a desktop standalone
or the new HTML5 standalone?
In this case I'm sure Richard meant desktop standalone, sonce he's been 
an advocate for that for some years. I'm sure once HTML5 standalones 
become smoething we can deploy, many of  the advantages of desktop LC 
standalones will be available via that path as well.


-- Alex.

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Re: Launcher Stack and Saving

[Randy Hengst]

Oh, of course!  Given that my “main stack” was a livecode stack, I didn’t even 
think about that. Thank you for pointing that out.

be well,
randy

Randy Hengst
www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com


> On Mar 8, 2016, at 3:52 PM, J. Landman Gay  wrote:
> 
> On 3/8/2016 3:00 PM, Randy Hengst wrote:
>> I spoke a bit too soon… the “answer” dialogue still doesn’t show. I
>> did try “start using stack “launcher.livecode” but no answer
>> dialogue.
> 
> Is the answer dialog checked in standalone settings?
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> 
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Re: Launcher Stack and Saving

[J. Landman Gay]

On 3/8/2016 3:00 PM, Randy Hengst wrote:

I spoke a bit too soon… the “answer” dialogue still doesn’t show. I
did try “start using stack “launcher.livecode” but no answer
dialogue.


Is the answer dialog checked in standalone settings?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com


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Re: Launcher Stack and Saving

[Randy Hengst]

I spoke a bit too soon… the “answer” dialogue still doesn’t show. I did try 
“start using stack “launcher.livecode” but no answer dialogue.

Any thoughts on what I have missed?

be well,
randy

Randy Hengst
www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com


> On Mar 8, 2016, at 2:17 PM, Randy Hengst  wrote:
> 
> Jacque and James,
> 
> Thank you for the tips… yes, I do want the main stack to be in the package… I 
> placed it in the same folder simply because of the instructions in the lesson 
> I referenced… when I first tried to include the main stack, I didn’t select 
> “resources” as the destination folder… all is good on that front now.
> 
> And, yes, the shutdownrequest message what I was missing.
> 
> Thank you both for helping move forward.
> 
> be well,
> randy
> 
> Randy Hengst
> www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com
> 
> 
>> On Mar 8, 2016, at 7:41 AM, jameshale  wrote:
>> 
>> Randy Hengst wrote
>>> Second, when I “quit” the launcher the changes made to the “main” stack
>>> are not saved. However, when I close by clicking the “red” dot of the
>>> “main” stack, the changes are saved. 
>> 
>> I have not gone through the lesson but the launcher/mainstack structure
>> usually implies that once the "launcher" has done its bit, the "main" stack
>> is the one left open. Thus to quit, you are quitting the main stack, not the
>> launcher. If this is the case then the "closestack" message sitting in your
>> main stack is only sent when the user or a handler "closes" its window. Is
>> this what you are doing to "quit". 
>> If not, perhaps you want to act on the "shutdownrequest" message
>> (remembering to pass it)?
>> 
>> 
>>> Finally, is it possible to place the “main” stack in the OSX package
>>> rather than having the stack in the same folder as the launcher
>>> standalone?
>> 
>> When you build the standalone the launcher and the engine are combined into
>> the executable within MacOS folder within the app's package. The main stack
>> and other resources will also be in that folder, either as is or in any
>> folder structure you have constructed. Isn't that where you want them? 
>> They should all be in the 'package' else they won't be part of your app.
>> 
>> James
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Launcher-Stack-and-Saving-tp4702096p4702110.html
>> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> 
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Re: livecode website templates

[Matt Maier]

Rght...except that I can't use "view page source" to see any
Livecode because what's delivered to the browser is either html, css, or
javascript, correct? So the Livecode "source" is replaced by its own
output, which maintains the mystery.

There are several small tutorials scattered around, but where can I see
actual websites that run on Livecode? Even the on-rev.com examples don't
actually provide the *.lc files. All I can see there are the isolated
Livecode scripts and the static page delivered to the browser in html.

When you say "use Livecode for the client" do you mean a desktop standalone
or the new HTML5 standalone?

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Richard Gaskin 
wrote:

> Matt Maier wrote:
> > Oh. So, when you use Livecode to put "Hello world" into the browser,
> > is it actually sending the browser something like Hello world
> > from the server?
>
> Yep.  That's the secret charm of web development:  HTML defines what's in
> a page, CSS defines how it looks, JavaScript defines how you can interact
> with it - and all three are just plain text.
>
> "View Page Source" is the greatest feature ever, and every browser has
> it.  With that and a little time, even the coolest web sites become
> demystified.
>
> With a text processing toolkit like LiveCode's chunk expressions, coupled
> with everything else it does from image manipulation to socket handling and
> more, the range of ways LiveCode can contribute to web development is
> limited only by the imagination.
>
> You can generate pages locally and upload 'em securely and efficiently
> with rsync, or use a server-side CGI to accept input from the user to fill
> in custom templates with merge, or create custom images from user input, or
> access databases, or mashup content from multiple web sources, or index
> chunks of the Internet, or build intranet resources for your organization,
> or admin all your servers from one place, or make a dashboard for your
> boss, or monitor forum activity, or write a blog, or sync content between
> your phone and laptop, or
>
> And if you use LiveCode for the client also, you can multiply the number
> of things you can do over HTTP by at least two, and get them done in a
> fraction of the time. :)
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  
>
>  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
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Re: Launcher Stack and Saving

[Randy Hengst]

Jacque and James,

Thank you for the tips… yes, I do want the main stack to be in the package… I 
placed it in the same folder simply because of the instructions in the lesson I 
referenced… when I first tried to include the main stack, I didn’t select 
“resources” as the destination folder… all is good on that front now.

And, yes, the shutdownrequest message what I was missing.

Thank you both for helping move forward.

be well,
randy

Randy Hengst
www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com


> On Mar 8, 2016, at 7:41 AM, jameshale  wrote:
> 
> Randy Hengst wrote
>> Second, when I “quit” the launcher the changes made to the “main” stack
>> are not saved. However, when I close by clicking the “red” dot of the
>> “main” stack, the changes are saved. 
> 
> I have not gone through the lesson but the launcher/mainstack structure
> usually implies that once the "launcher" has done its bit, the "main" stack
> is the one left open. Thus to quit, you are quitting the main stack, not the
> launcher. If this is the case then the "closestack" message sitting in your
> main stack is only sent when the user or a handler "closes" its window. Is
> this what you are doing to "quit". 
> If not, perhaps you want to act on the "shutdownrequest" message
> (remembering to pass it)?
> 
> 
>> Finally, is it possible to place the “main” stack in the OSX package
>> rather than having the stack in the same folder as the launcher
>> standalone?
> 
> When you build the standalone the launcher and the engine are combined into
> the executable within MacOS folder within the app's package. The main stack
> and other resources will also be in that folder, either as is or in any
> folder structure you have constructed. Isn't that where you want them? 
> They should all be in the 'package' else they won't be part of your app.
> 
> James
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Launcher-Stack-and-Saving-tp4702096p4702110.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
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Re: livecode website templates

[Richard Gaskin]

Matt Maier wrote:
> Oh. So, when you use Livecode to put "Hello world" into the browser,
> is it actually sending the browser something like Hello world
> from the server?

Yep.  That's the secret charm of web development:  HTML defines what's 
in a page, CSS defines how it looks, JavaScript defines how you can 
interact with it - and all three are just plain text.


"View Page Source" is the greatest feature ever, and every browser has 
it.  With that and a little time, even the coolest web sites become 
demystified.


With a text processing toolkit like LiveCode's chunk expressions, 
coupled with everything else it does from image manipulation to socket 
handling and more, the range of ways LiveCode can contribute to web 
development is limited only by the imagination.


You can generate pages locally and upload 'em securely and efficiently 
with rsync, or use a server-side CGI to accept input from the user to 
fill in custom templates with merge, or create custom images from user 
input, or access databases, or mashup content from multiple web sources, 
or index chunks of the Internet, or build intranet resources for your 
organization, or admin all your servers from one place, or make a 
dashboard for your boss, or monitor forum activity, or write a blog, or 
sync content between your phone and laptop, or


And if you use LiveCode for the client also, you can multiply the number 
of things you can do over HTTP by at least two, and get them done in a 
fraction of the time. :)


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: another datagrid question

[Phil Davis]

My remedy:
After copying my code from the script of my problem data grid, I deleted 
it and created a new one in its place. I added my code back in and it's 
working!


Thanks -
Phil


On 3/8/16 11:25 AM, Phil Davis wrote:
My "make all lines have the same columns" idea brought no change to 
what is displayed. I use a custom column behavior in this DG, so I'll 
see how I can simplify my data & code.


Thanks -
Phil


On 3/8/16 11:00 AM, Phil Davis wrote:

Combined responses below.


On 3/8/16 5:59 AM, dunb...@aol.com wrote:

Hi.


Have you done a "dispatch resetList to group yourDG?"




Thanks Craig. I tried this and saw no change to what was displayed.



On 3/8/16 10:35 AM, zryip theSlug wrote:

Hi Phil,

You can first explore how the data is split in the datagrid internal 
array.


1. You can use the msg box with this command:
send "PrintKeys" to grp "myDataGrid"

2. Or, if you are a DGH user, go to the DGH's properties palette ->
"Print keys" topic -> "Show data"

Nice - I had never used PrintKeys before. What I see is this: While 
my undisplayed column data is consistently included in the PrintKeys 
output, there are other columns that are included only under certain 
circumstances. I suppose I should make my data always have the same 
number of columns per record - seems like I remember something about 
that being an issue in the past but I could be wrong. Will give it a 
try anyway.


Thanks guys -
Phil



-Original Message-
From: Phil Davis 
To: How to use LiveCode 
Sent: Tue, Mar 8, 2016 3:35 am
Subject: another datagrid question

My DG table doesn't display the data in its first column. I know I've
seen this before, and may have even fixed it for a client ages ago. But
I'm drawing a blank.

Using the property inspector, I can see the data in column 1. It's 
there.


The column is displayed, but it appears to be empty.

Can someone please jar my memory?

Thanks -







--
Phil Davis


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Re: another datagrid question

[Phil Davis]

My "make all lines have the same columns" idea brought no change to what 
is displayed. I use a custom column behavior in this DG, so I'll see how 
I can simplify my data & code.


Thanks -
Phil


On 3/8/16 11:00 AM, Phil Davis wrote:

Combined responses below.


On 3/8/16 5:59 AM, dunb...@aol.com wrote:

Hi.


Have you done a "dispatch resetList to group yourDG?"




Thanks Craig. I tried this and saw no change to what was displayed.



On 3/8/16 10:35 AM, zryip theSlug wrote:

Hi Phil,

You can first explore how the data is split in the datagrid internal 
array.


1. You can use the msg box with this command:
send "PrintKeys" to grp "myDataGrid"

2. Or, if you are a DGH user, go to the DGH's properties palette ->
"Print keys" topic -> "Show data"

Nice - I had never used PrintKeys before. What I see is this: While my 
undisplayed column data is consistently included in the PrintKeys 
output, there are other columns that are included only under certain 
circumstances. I suppose I should make my data always have the same 
number of columns per record - seems like I remember something about 
that being an issue in the past but I could be wrong. Will give it a 
try anyway.


Thanks guys -
Phil



-Original Message-
From: Phil Davis 
To: How to use LiveCode 
Sent: Tue, Mar 8, 2016 3:35 am
Subject: another datagrid question

My DG table doesn't display the data in its first column. I know I've
seen this before, and may have even fixed it for a client ages ago. But
I'm drawing a blank.

Using the property inspector, I can see the data in column 1. It's 
there.


The column is displayed, but it appears to be empty.

Can someone please jar my memory?

Thanks -





--
Phil Davis


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Re: another datagrid question

[Phil Davis]

Combined responses below.


On 3/8/16 5:59 AM, dunb...@aol.com wrote:

Hi.


Have you done a "dispatch resetList to group yourDG?"




Thanks Craig. I tried this and saw no change to what was displayed.



On 3/8/16 10:35 AM, zryip theSlug wrote:

Hi Phil,

You can first explore how the data is split in the datagrid internal array.

1. You can use the msg box with this command:
send "PrintKeys" to grp "myDataGrid"

2. Or, if you are a DGH user, go to the DGH's properties palette ->
"Print keys" topic -> "Show data"

Nice - I had never used PrintKeys before. What I see is this: While my 
undisplayed column data is consistently included in the PrintKeys 
output, there are other columns that are included only under certain 
circumstances. I suppose I should make my data always have the same 
number of columns per record - seems like I remember something about 
that being an issue in the past but I could be wrong. Will give it a try 
anyway.


Thanks guys -
Phil



-Original Message-
From: Phil Davis 
To: How to use LiveCode 
Sent: Tue, Mar 8, 2016 3:35 am
Subject: another datagrid question

My DG table doesn't display the data in its first column. I know I've
seen this before, and may have even fixed it for a client ages ago. But
I'm drawing a blank.

Using the property inspector, I can see the data in column 1. It's there.

The column is displayed, but it appears to be empty.

Can someone please jar my memory?

Thanks -



--
Phil Davis


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Re: another datagrid question

[zryip theSlug]

Hi Phil,

You can first explore how the data is split in the datagrid internal array.

1. You can use the msg box with this command:
send "PrintKeys" to grp "myDataGrid"

2. Or, if you are a DGH user, go to the DGH's properties palette ->
"Print keys" topic -> "Show data"



Best Regards,

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 9:33 AM, Phil Davis  wrote:
> My DG table doesn't display the data in its first column. I know I've seen
> this before, and may have even fixed it for a client ages ago. But I'm
> drawing a blank.
>
> Using the property inspector, I can see the data in column 1. It's there.
>
> The column is displayed, but it appears to be empty.
>
> Can someone please jar my memory?
>
> Thanks -
>
> --
> Phil Davis
>
>
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-- 
Zryip TheSlug
http://www.aslugontheroad.com

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Re: Launcher Stack and Saving

[jameshale]

Randy Hengst wrote
> Second, when I “quit” the launcher the changes made to the “main” stack
> are not saved. However, when I close by clicking the “red” dot of the
> “main” stack, the changes are saved. 

I have not gone through the lesson but the launcher/mainstack structure
usually implies that once the "launcher" has done its bit, the "main" stack
is the one left open. Thus to quit, you are quitting the main stack, not the
launcher. If this is the case then the "closestack" message sitting in your
main stack is only sent when the user or a handler "closes" its window. Is
this what you are doing to "quit". 
If not, perhaps you want to act on the "shutdownrequest" message
(remembering to pass it)?


> Finally, is it possible to place the “main” stack in the OSX package
> rather than having the stack in the same folder as the launcher
> standalone?

When you build the standalone the launcher and the engine are combined into
the executable within MacOS folder within the app's package. The main stack
and other resources will also be in that folder, either as is or in any
folder structure you have constructed. Isn't that where you want them? 
They should all be in the 'package' else they won't be part of your app.

James



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Re: another datagrid question

[dunbarx]

Hi.


Have you done a "dispatch resetList to group yourDG?"



-Original Message-
From: Phil Davis 
To: How to use LiveCode 
Sent: Tue, Mar 8, 2016 3:35 am
Subject: another datagrid question

My DG table doesn't display the data in its first column. I know I've 
seen this before, and may have even fixed it for a client ages ago. But 
I'm drawing a blank.

Using the property inspector, I can see the data in column 1. It's there.

The column is displayed, but it appears to be empty.

Can someone please jar my memory?

Thanks -

-- 
Phil Davis


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another datagrid question

[Phil Davis]

My DG table doesn't display the data in its first column. I know I've 
seen this before, and may have even fixed it for a client ages ago. But 
I'm drawing a blank.


Using the property inspector, I can see the data in column 1. It's there.

The column is displayed, but it appears to be empty.

Can someone please jar my memory?

Thanks -

--
Phil Davis


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