Re: Fix The Browser!

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

9.6.4 They fixed the browser in iOS!

Where do we get the release notes? The “break through” is not even mentioned…

But, we look for to putting the books on line.


On 8/30/21, 5:05 AM, "use-livecode"  
wrote:
Well there is with

mobileControlCreate.

But it does NOT solve the bugs in iOS.

In Android all the following works fine.

But in iOS it fails for:

allowUserInteraction
allowInteraction
browserDocumentLoadBegin pUrl
browserDocumentLoadComplete  pUrl
browserDocumentLoadFailed pUrl
browserFrameDocumentLoadBegin pUrl

I hope we fix this asap!


Svasti Astu – Be Well
Brahmanathaswami

Get SivaSiva.app – It free!
https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/sivasiva




On 8/21/21, 1:34 PM, "use-livecode" 
mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com>>
 wrote:
Weren't these replaced with mobileControlCreate?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | 
jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On August 21, 2021 4:55:39 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>
 wrote:

> Not only that, its marked as too old to be used log into any of Google's
> sites, and many others I am sure.
> I would consider upgrading/fixing the CEF as a high priority task.
> Please Please . just do it.
> Its almost 4 years old.
>
> On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 10:24 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via
> use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>
>  wrote:
>
>> Aloha Panagiotis Merakos
>>
>> Browers Bug:
>>
>> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23267
>>
>> What are we doing? This is “really serious” . The API Dictionery does not
>> work for iOS
>>
>> allowUserInteraction   property set the allowUserInteraction of widget to
>> allowInteraction
>> browserDocumentLoadBeginmessage   browserDocumentLoadBegin pUrl
>> browserDocumentLoadComplete message   browserDocumentLoadComplete
>> pUrl
>> browserDocumentLoadFailed   message   browserDocumentLoadFailed pUrl,
>> pError
>> browserFrameDocumentLoadBegin message   browserFrameDocumentLoadBegin
>> pUrl
>>
>>
>> Svasti Astu – Be Well
>> Brahmanathaswami
>>
>> Get SivaSiva.app – It free!
>> https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/sivasiva
>>
>>

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Text encoding.

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

I made the same mistake at first. The concepts felt backward to me, it 
seemed like we should encode text into the format we were aiming for. So If 
I wanted UTF16 I should encode it that way. If I wanted UTF8 for outbound 
text I should decode the UTF16 that LC uses.


When the receiving server scripts went haywire I finally figured it out, 
but not before the Rails programmer wrote code to undo the gibberish I was 
sending.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On September 2, 2021 7:55:45 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
 wrote:


i.e.I encoded it on the way in.

It should have been

   put textDecode(pStr, "UTF8") into pStr

With that changed, my tiny test script works properly




___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode]

Hi Lagi,
I have the LC IDE running on a remote Windows Server with 1 core (2Ghz) and
2GB ram. It struggles at times but is still usable (truly amazingly).
Otherwise, I run it on Windows through Parallels Desktop with VM 8 cores
and 8GB on an 8core 32GB Macbook Pro. Saving a stack takes 15 times longer
in Win compared to the same machine in macOS. Other than the slight lag and
bugginess of the script editor this is the only slowness I see. Unicode
slows down some procedures but that is not limited to the IDE.

I hope you can work out what is slowing it down to treacle speeds for you.
It sounds a bit odd to me.

On Fri, 3 Sept 2021 at 00:16, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> >>
> But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running on a
> 16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7  processor and it  STILL runs like
> treacle.
> <<
>
> As I don't recognize this experience can you put a video of your experience
> on the cloud?  I don't run on hardware anything like as beefy as you have.
> The only machine I've got where LC is slow is one where Windows itself is
> really slow (a 4yo laptop).  On my two Apple machines (M1 and Intel, the
> latter is 5yo) it is not "like treacle", neither is it slow on my i5
> Windows machine.
>
> It's a bit hard for LC Ltd to identify and fix something if it's only found
> in some odd cases.
>
> Regards, Bernard
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 10:34 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Trials of 14 days or even 30 days are a waste of time. I can install
> > something and use it for a couple of days - then life / work gets in the
> > way
> > so It sits on the computer for 31 days and then times out.
> >
> >  You then have to waste your time and the companies to get an extension,
> > and by the time they answer
> > you get cheesed off and remove the  program.
> >
> > The BEST trial is the one that lasts for 30 actual executions or 6 months
> > (whichever comes first).
> >
> > This stops the clever  SOD who decides to keep it running without exiting
> > for 6 months but it times out anyway.
> > Even better if he keeps it on for 2 days it counts as "executing" twice
> so
> > it will last 30 days.
> >
> > This means I have 30 days over a 6 month period to really test it without
> > rushing.
> >
> > The people who would game the system are the people who won't be loyal
> > customer anyway, so not giving a worthwhile trial period handicaps those
> > who want to give it a good try.
> >
> > You can also put a  nag screen  at the start of any executable with an OK
> > button  link to a special discounted price - free marketing (what a
> > brilliant Idea, why didn't I think of it?).
> >
> > But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running
> on a
> > 16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7  processor and it  STILL runs like
> > treacle.
> >
> > If I downloaded it today as a new person it would be off my machine in
> less
> > than 30 minutes.
> >
> > You could also use this as your "marketing" system by "giving it away"
> to
> > schools for nothing and without the trial period but the nag screen.
> >
> > It can then be used by the students to learn programming at no cost - and
> > some of the students parent might pony up for a paid for version at a
> > student price (with no expiring standalones of cours - the most stupid
> idea
> > of the lot so far)
> >
> >
> > Anyway Kevin, have I/we wastedour time again putting out these cranky,
> > stupid and not workable suggestions?.
> >
> > Lagi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 2 Sept 2021 at 15:55, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > We *are* considering the length of the trial actively, we may well
> give a
> > > longer trial a shot at some point.
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > >
> > > Kevin
> > >
> > > Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> > > LiveCode: Develop Yourself
> > >
> > > On 02/09/2021, 15:51, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via
> > > use-livecode"  > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > True, true.
> > >
> > > There could be a small group of programmers that pass a stack
> around
> > > but you would not be able to convince/teach a civilian to install a
> > > programming IDE and explain how to run the stack along with any other
> > > supporting files, SW or plug-ins... Mobile would be a non-starter. I
> > would
> > > not dismiss this out-of-hand. A 90 day free IDE could also be an
> option.
> > >
> > > Ralph DiMola
> > > IT Director
> > > Evergreen Information Services
> > > rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com]
> On
> > > Behalf Of Kevin Miller via use-livecode
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 10:31 AM
> > > To: How to use LiveCode
> > > Cc: Kevin Miller; Michael 

Re: Put URL command

[Alex Tweedly via use-livecode]

I said :


try

  put URL "binfile:" & sourceURL into URL ("binfile:" & destinationURL)


No. Don't. I was wrong. That avoids the error message, but gets the 
wrong result. It gives you the content of the URL "binfile:" (i.e. 
empty) plus the value of the variable sourceURL



or, if you're cautious like me,

  put URL ("binfile:" & sourceURL) into URL ("binfile:" & 
destinationURL)


Yes. Do it this way. Use parens for URLs

Alex.


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Text encoding.

[Alex Tweedly via use-livecode]

On 02/09/2021 13:01, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote:

Thanks for the question Alex, I’m wrestling with the same issues - but so far 
got no responses from encoding gurus here :)

This is my understanding:

1) Yes its recommended to textEncode text that comes from outside into 
Livecode’s internal native format (which is utf16).  Livecode handles 
everything internally “transparently” from then on - which I guess means all 
usual language and control operations expect this utf16 internal format. My 
guess is this is why a few things have got slower as compared with early 
versions of Livecode.



Hi David, thanks for the suggestion. But I think you have (maybe) made 
the same mistake I made.


I blame it on the dictionary entry being truncated in one place and not 
as clear as it could be in others. The correct part to focus on is


that you explicitly*textEncode* any text you send outside LiveCode and 
textDecode all text received into LiveCode


i.e. you *decode* on the way in to Livecode (confirmed by the examples 
in the dictionary, not by the text description).


So the code I was using, sent earlier  in reply to Mark W's email said 
(something like):


  put URL ("file:" & specialFolderPath("home") & "/warpeace.txt") into 
tText

  ...
  put quote&"!?,.:;[]{}()£$¢%^&≤≥÷<>=+-…“‘”¡™#∞§¶*•ªº\/" into tList
  ...
   put textencode(pStr, "UTF8") into pStr

i.e.I encoded it on the way in.

It should have been

   put textDecode(pStr, "UTF8") into pStr

With that changed, my tiny test script works properly (and quickly). I 
haven't yet put this back into my actual app script - it's way past my 
bedtime :-), but I now expect it will be OK.


Mark - I hope this helps - and hopefully you can conclude there's no 
error, just some dictionary entries to improve. If (when) I confirm this 
in my actual app, I'll create a bugreport for the dictionary.


Alex.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Put URL command

[Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode]

Thanks Alex! 

> On Sep 2, 2021, at 8:00 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> try
> 
>  put URL "binfile:" & sourceURL into URL ("binfile:" & destinationURL)
> 
> or, if you're cautious like me,
> 
>  put URL ("binfile:" & sourceURL) into URL ("binfile:" & 
> destinationURL)
> Alex
> 
> On 03/09/2021 00:55, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode wrote:
> 
>> put URL "binfile:" & sourceURL into URL "binfile:" & destinationURL
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Put URL command

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 9/2/21 5:00 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:

put URL ("binfile:" & sourceURL) into URL ("binfile:" &  destinationURL)

I always use parentheses when specifying URLs.
It doesn't necessarily keep me out of trouble, but at least then it's 
trouble of my own making.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Put URL command

[Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode]

Actually, a compilation error. How is the command supposed to be structured 
when using  a var for the URL?

> On Sep 2, 2021, at 7:55 PM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Is this supposed to work? I get a script error:
> 
> put URL "binfile:" & sourceURL into URL "binfile:" & destinationURL
> 
> 
> 
> Peter Bogdanoff
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Put URL command

[Alex Tweedly via use-livecode]

try

 put URL "binfile:" & sourceURL into URL ("binfile:" & 
destinationURL)


or, if you're cautious like me,

 put URL ("binfile:" & sourceURL) into URL ("binfile:" & 
destinationURL)

Alex

On 03/09/2021 00:55, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode wrote:


put URL "binfile:" & sourceURL into URL "binfile:" & destinationURL


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Put URL command

[Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode]

Is this supposed to work? I get a script error:

put URL "binfile:" & sourceURL into URL "binfile:" & destinationURL



Peter Bogdanoff

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Bernard Devlin via use-livecode]

>>
But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running on a
16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7  processor and it  STILL runs like
treacle.
<<

As I don't recognize this experience can you put a video of your experience
on the cloud?  I don't run on hardware anything like as beefy as you have.
The only machine I've got where LC is slow is one where Windows itself is
really slow (a 4yo laptop).  On my two Apple machines (M1 and Intel, the
latter is 5yo) it is not "like treacle", neither is it slow on my i5
Windows machine.

It's a bit hard for LC Ltd to identify and fix something if it's only found
in some odd cases.

Regards, Bernard






On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 10:34 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Trials of 14 days or even 30 days are a waste of time. I can install
> something and use it for a couple of days - then life / work gets in the
> way
> so It sits on the computer for 31 days and then times out.
>
>  You then have to waste your time and the companies to get an extension,
> and by the time they answer
> you get cheesed off and remove the  program.
>
> The BEST trial is the one that lasts for 30 actual executions or 6 months
> (whichever comes first).
>
> This stops the clever  SOD who decides to keep it running without exiting
> for 6 months but it times out anyway.
> Even better if he keeps it on for 2 days it counts as "executing" twice so
> it will last 30 days.
>
> This means I have 30 days over a 6 month period to really test it without
> rushing.
>
> The people who would game the system are the people who won't be loyal
> customer anyway, so not giving a worthwhile trial period handicaps those
> who want to give it a good try.
>
> You can also put a  nag screen  at the start of any executable with an OK
> button  link to a special discounted price - free marketing (what a
> brilliant Idea, why didn't I think of it?).
>
> But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running on a
> 16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7  processor and it  STILL runs like
> treacle.
>
> If I downloaded it today as a new person it would be off my machine in less
> than 30 minutes.
>
> You could also use this as your "marketing" system by "giving it away"  to
> schools for nothing and without the trial period but the nag screen.
>
> It can then be used by the students to learn programming at no cost - and
> some of the students parent might pony up for a paid for version at a
> student price (with no expiring standalones of cours - the most stupid idea
> of the lot so far)
>
>
> Anyway Kevin, have I/we wastedour time again putting out these cranky,
> stupid and not workable suggestions?.
>
> Lagi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 2 Sept 2021 at 15:55, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > We *are* considering the length of the trial actively, we may well give a
> > longer trial a shot at some point.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> > LiveCode: Develop Yourself
> >
> > On 02/09/2021, 15:51, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via
> > use-livecode"  > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > True, true.
> >
> > There could be a small group of programmers that pass a stack around
> > but you would not be able to convince/teach a civilian to install a
> > programming IDE and explain how to run the stack along with any other
> > supporting files, SW or plug-ins... Mobile would be a non-starter. I
> would
> > not dismiss this out-of-hand. A 90 day free IDE could also be an option.
> >
> > Ralph DiMola
> > IT Director
> > Evergreen Information Services
> > rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
> > Behalf Of Kevin Miller via use-livecode
> > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 10:31 AM
> > To: How to use LiveCode
> > Cc: Kevin Miller; Michael Kristensen
> > Subject: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
> >
> > Thanks for the constructive suggestion. Unfortunately with a free
> > non-app building version, everyone who needs to run an app can just
> > download that.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> > LiveCode: Develop Yourself
> >
> > On 02/09/2021, 14:49, "use-livecode on behalf of Michael Kristensen
> > via use-livecode"  > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi there
> >
> > I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
> >
> > That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> 

Re: Sorting text is *VERY* slow in LC9 on Windows (Re: Accumulating text is *VERY* slow in LC9 on Windows)

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I am going to say no, because you still have to traverse the file once to get 
it into sqLite, then do the sort, then write out the file when done. I might be 
mistaken, the subsequent SQL sort may make up for lost time. Using a memory SQL 
really shines when you need to make multiple passes at the data using different 
queries. One pass may not impress you much. 

For instance, I have a File Management module built into my application. A file 
can belong to a customer, and also to a site, and also to a device. Like so:

custid  siteid  deviceidfilepath
123 disk/folder/file1
456 098 disk/folder/file2
789 765 432 disk/folder/file3

Note all have a custid, some have a siteid as well, and some also have a 
deviceid. 

So rather than query mySQL for the files for each site or device as I select 
them, I instead, upon selecting a customer, query mySQL for ALL the file 
records for that customer, (which of course contain the file records for all 
the sites and devices), then store that in a memory database. Then when a 
different site or device belonging to that customer is selected, I query the 
memory database for those belonging to that site, or that device in those 
modules respectively. 

The performance enhancement is significant. 

Another way I apply this is to get the objects on a card passing a list of 
properties I'm interested in, then store the data in a memory database. I can 
then query for objects with certain properties without having to iterate 
through all the objects on a card in a repeat loop. For instance, the farthest 
left, top, right and bottom object whose visible is true in 4 memory db 
queries, giving me the total rect of all the visible objects without 
grouping/ungrouping and the hell that can ensue. 

Bob S


> On Sep 2, 2021, at 11:22 , Bernard Devlin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Whilst waiting for a fix, would a temporary solution be to use sqlite to
> create an in-memory database and let sqlite do the sorting for you?
> 
> Regards, Bernard.
> 
> On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 8:23 PM Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks to Mark Waddingham's advice about using a buffer var when
>> accumulating
>> a large text variabel in stages, I've now got a script that took 8 hours
>> under
>> LC9, and (8 minutes under LC6) down by stages to just under 1 hour under
>> LC9.
>> 
>> However I have some remaining issues not amenable to this approach; of
>> which
>> the most significant relates to the sort command.
>> 
>> In all cases it seems to take much longer under LC9 than it did under LC6;
>> although the factor is quite variable. The most dramatic is one instance,
>> in
>> which this statement:
>> 
>>sort lines of tNewTable by item iSortCol of each
>> 
>> takes 35 minutes to execute. `tNewTable` is a variable consisting of some
>> 223,000 lines of text; approx 70MB. The exact same statement with the same
>> data on the same computer in LC6 takes just 1 second.
>> 
>> Has anyone else noticed something of this sort? As I said, the effect
>> varies:
>> e.g. 54 seconds versus 1 second; 22 seconds versus 1 second. So it may not
>> be
>> so noticeable in all cases.
>> 
>> TIA,
>> 
>> Ben
>> 


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Lagi Pittas via use-livecode]

Tom,

I have mentioned the IDE problem how many times in the last 3 years and
nothing has come of it.

They have been fixated on getting bought out by Apple or Claris (LCFM is on
the Filemaker store) but I bet Apple has been stringing them along and
learning their IP to bring out their own
to compete with flutter. because of Flutter.

I could be totally wrong but apple and microsoft have done it more than once

https://www.silicon.co.uk/e-regulation/stealing-health-apple-watch-328647
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FSm61dM_nM
https://www.sriplaw.com/can-apple-steal-my-iphone-app-ideas-and-get-away-with-it/

Lagi

On Thu, 2 Sept 2021 at 23:01, Tom Glod via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I literally begged. LOL
>
> On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 5:59 PM Tom Glod  wrote:
>
> > Lagi,
> >
> > I wrote to Kevin earlier and gave the exact same advice. those exact 2
> > points needing to be addressed.
> >
> > Give long trial, fix the most obvious IDE issues ASAP.
> >
> > Without those two things how is any new developer going to join the
> > platform?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 5:34 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Trials of 14 days or even 30 days are a waste of time. I can install
> >> something and use it for a couple of days - then life / work gets in the
> >> way
> >> so It sits on the computer for 31 days and then times out.
> >>
> >>  You then have to waste your time and the companies to get an extension,
> >> and by the time they answer
> >> you get cheesed off and remove the  program.
> >>
> >> The BEST trial is the one that lasts for 30 actual executions or 6
> months
> >> (whichever comes first).
> >>
> >> This stops the clever  SOD who decides to keep it running without
> exiting
> >> for 6 months but it times out anyway.
> >> Even better if he keeps it on for 2 days it counts as "executing" twice
> so
> >> it will last 30 days.
> >>
> >> This means I have 30 days over a 6 month period to really test it
> without
> >> rushing.
> >>
> >> The people who would game the system are the people who won't be loyal
> >> customer anyway, so not giving a worthwhile trial period handicaps those
> >> who want to give it a good try.
> >>
> >> You can also put a  nag screen  at the start of any executable with an
> OK
> >> button  link to a special discounted price - free marketing (what a
> >> brilliant Idea, why didn't I think of it?).
> >>
> >> But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running
> on
> >> a
> >> 16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7  processor and it  STILL runs like
> >> treacle.
> >>
> >> If I downloaded it today as a new person it would be off my machine in
> >> less
> >> than 30 minutes.
> >>
> >> You could also use this as your "marketing" system by "giving it away"
> to
> >> schools for nothing and without the trial period but the nag screen.
> >>
> >> It can then be used by the students to learn programming at no cost -
> and
> >> some of the students parent might pony up for a paid for version at a
> >> student price (with no expiring standalones of cours - the most stupid
> >> idea
> >> of the lot so far)
> >>
> >>
> >> Anyway Kevin, have I/we wastedour time again putting out these cranky,
> >> stupid and not workable suggestions?.
> >>
> >> Lagi
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, 2 Sept 2021 at 15:55, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > We *are* considering the length of the trial actively, we may well
> give
> >> a
> >> > longer trial a shot at some point.
> >> >
> >> > Kind regards,
> >> >
> >> > Kevin
> >> >
> >> > Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> >> > LiveCode: Develop Yourself
> >> >
> >> > On 02/09/2021, 15:51, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via
> >> > use-livecode"  >> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > True, true.
> >> >
> >> > There could be a small group of programmers that pass a stack
> around
> >> > but you would not be able to convince/teach a civilian to install a
> >> > programming IDE and explain how to run the stack along with any other
> >> > supporting files, SW or plug-ins... Mobile would be a non-starter. I
> >> would
> >> > not dismiss this out-of-hand. A 90 day free IDE could also be an
> option.
> >> >
> >> > Ralph DiMola
> >> > IT Director
> >> > Evergreen Information Services
> >> > rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com]
> >> On
> >> > Behalf Of Kevin Miller via use-livecode
> >> > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 10:31 AM
> >> > To: How to use LiveCode
> >> > Cc: Kevin Miller; Michael Kristensen
> >> > Subject: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
> >> >
> >> > Thanks for the constructive suggestion. Unfortunately with a free
> >> > non-app building version, everyone 

Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Lagi Pittas via use-livecode]

Sorry it's worse than I thought.It's 10th generation with 4 cores and 8
logical processors.

Appleworks was blazingly fast on my 64K 1Mhz Apple 2  and so was Borland
Turbo Pascal on my Microsoft Z80 card on said machine - software is going
backwards speed wise.

Lagi

On Thu, 2 Sept 2021 at 23:00, Tom Glod via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Lagi,
>
> I wrote to Kevin earlier and gave the exact same advice. those exact 2
> points needing to be addressed.
>
> Give long trial, fix the most obvious IDE issues ASAP.
>
> Without those two things how is any new developer going to join the
> platform?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 5:34 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Trials of 14 days or even 30 days are a waste of time. I can install
> > something and use it for a couple of days - then life / work gets in the
> > way
> > so It sits on the computer for 31 days and then times out.
> >
> >  You then have to waste your time and the companies to get an extension,
> > and by the time they answer
> > you get cheesed off and remove the  program.
> >
> > The BEST trial is the one that lasts for 30 actual executions or 6 months
> > (whichever comes first).
> >
> > This stops the clever  SOD who decides to keep it running without exiting
> > for 6 months but it times out anyway.
> > Even better if he keeps it on for 2 days it counts as "executing" twice
> so
> > it will last 30 days.
> >
> > This means I have 30 days over a 6 month period to really test it without
> > rushing.
> >
> > The people who would game the system are the people who won't be loyal
> > customer anyway, so not giving a worthwhile trial period handicaps those
> > who want to give it a good try.
> >
> > You can also put a  nag screen  at the start of any executable with an OK
> > button  link to a special discounted price - free marketing (what a
> > brilliant Idea, why didn't I think of it?).
> >
> > But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running
> on a
> > 16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7  processor and it  STILL runs like
> > treacle.
> >
> > If I downloaded it today as a new person it would be off my machine in
> less
> > than 30 minutes.
> >
> > You could also use this as your "marketing" system by "giving it away"
> to
> > schools for nothing and without the trial period but the nag screen.
> >
> > It can then be used by the students to learn programming at no cost - and
> > some of the students parent might pony up for a paid for version at a
> > student price (with no expiring standalones of cours - the most stupid
> idea
> > of the lot so far)
> >
> >
> > Anyway Kevin, have I/we wastedour time again putting out these cranky,
> > stupid and not workable suggestions?.
> >
> > Lagi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 2 Sept 2021 at 15:55, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > We *are* considering the length of the trial actively, we may well
> give a
> > > longer trial a shot at some point.
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > >
> > > Kevin
> > >
> > > Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> > > LiveCode: Develop Yourself
> > >
> > > On 02/09/2021, 15:51, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via
> > > use-livecode"  > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > True, true.
> > >
> > > There could be a small group of programmers that pass a stack
> around
> > > but you would not be able to convince/teach a civilian to install a
> > > programming IDE and explain how to run the stack along with any other
> > > supporting files, SW or plug-ins... Mobile would be a non-starter. I
> > would
> > > not dismiss this out-of-hand. A 90 day free IDE could also be an
> option.
> > >
> > > Ralph DiMola
> > > IT Director
> > > Evergreen Information Services
> > > rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com]
> On
> > > Behalf Of Kevin Miller via use-livecode
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 10:31 AM
> > > To: How to use LiveCode
> > > Cc: Kevin Miller; Michael Kristensen
> > > Subject: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
> > >
> > > Thanks for the constructive suggestion. Unfortunately with a free
> > > non-app building version, everyone who needs to run an app can just
> > > download that.
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > >
> > > Kevin
> > >
> > > Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> > > LiveCode: Develop Yourself
> > >
> > > On 02/09/2021, 14:49, "use-livecode on behalf of Michael
> Kristensen
> > > via use-livecode"  > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi there
> > >
> > > I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community
> Edition
> > >
> > > That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.
> > >
> > > Michael

Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

I literally begged. LOL

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 5:59 PM Tom Glod  wrote:

> Lagi,
>
> I wrote to Kevin earlier and gave the exact same advice. those exact 2
> points needing to be addressed.
>
> Give long trial, fix the most obvious IDE issues ASAP.
>
> Without those two things how is any new developer going to join the
> platform?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 5:34 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Trials of 14 days or even 30 days are a waste of time. I can install
>> something and use it for a couple of days - then life / work gets in the
>> way
>> so It sits on the computer for 31 days and then times out.
>>
>>  You then have to waste your time and the companies to get an extension,
>> and by the time they answer
>> you get cheesed off and remove the  program.
>>
>> The BEST trial is the one that lasts for 30 actual executions or 6 months
>> (whichever comes first).
>>
>> This stops the clever  SOD who decides to keep it running without exiting
>> for 6 months but it times out anyway.
>> Even better if he keeps it on for 2 days it counts as "executing" twice so
>> it will last 30 days.
>>
>> This means I have 30 days over a 6 month period to really test it without
>> rushing.
>>
>> The people who would game the system are the people who won't be loyal
>> customer anyway, so not giving a worthwhile trial period handicaps those
>> who want to give it a good try.
>>
>> You can also put a  nag screen  at the start of any executable with an OK
>> button  link to a special discounted price - free marketing (what a
>> brilliant Idea, why didn't I think of it?).
>>
>> But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running on
>> a
>> 16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7  processor and it  STILL runs like
>> treacle.
>>
>> If I downloaded it today as a new person it would be off my machine in
>> less
>> than 30 minutes.
>>
>> You could also use this as your "marketing" system by "giving it away"  to
>> schools for nothing and without the trial period but the nag screen.
>>
>> It can then be used by the students to learn programming at no cost - and
>> some of the students parent might pony up for a paid for version at a
>> student price (with no expiring standalones of cours - the most stupid
>> idea
>> of the lot so far)
>>
>>
>> Anyway Kevin, have I/we wastedour time again putting out these cranky,
>> stupid and not workable suggestions?.
>>
>> Lagi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 2 Sept 2021 at 15:55, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> > We *are* considering the length of the trial actively, we may well give
>> a
>> > longer trial a shot at some point.
>> >
>> > Kind regards,
>> >
>> > Kevin
>> >
>> > Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>> > LiveCode: Develop Yourself
>> >
>> > On 02/09/2021, 15:51, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via
>> > use-livecode" > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > True, true.
>> >
>> > There could be a small group of programmers that pass a stack around
>> > but you would not be able to convince/teach a civilian to install a
>> > programming IDE and explain how to run the stack along with any other
>> > supporting files, SW or plug-ins... Mobile would be a non-starter. I
>> would
>> > not dismiss this out-of-hand. A 90 day free IDE could also be an option.
>> >
>> > Ralph DiMola
>> > IT Director
>> > Evergreen Information Services
>> > rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>> >
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com]
>> On
>> > Behalf Of Kevin Miller via use-livecode
>> > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 10:31 AM
>> > To: How to use LiveCode
>> > Cc: Kevin Miller; Michael Kristensen
>> > Subject: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>> >
>> > Thanks for the constructive suggestion. Unfortunately with a free
>> > non-app building version, everyone who needs to run an app can just
>> > download that.
>> >
>> > Kind regards,
>> >
>> > Kevin
>> >
>> > Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>> > LiveCode: Develop Yourself
>> >
>> > On 02/09/2021, 14:49, "use-livecode on behalf of Michael Kristensen
>> > via use-livecode" > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi there
>> >
>> > I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community
>> Edition
>> >
>> > That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.
>> >
>> > Michael
>> >
>> > ___
>> > use-livecode mailing list
>> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> > subscription preferences:
>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > 

Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

Lagi,

I wrote to Kevin earlier and gave the exact same advice. those exact 2
points needing to be addressed.

Give long trial, fix the most obvious IDE issues ASAP.

Without those two things how is any new developer going to join the
platform?



On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 5:34 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Trials of 14 days or even 30 days are a waste of time. I can install
> something and use it for a couple of days - then life / work gets in the
> way
> so It sits on the computer for 31 days and then times out.
>
>  You then have to waste your time and the companies to get an extension,
> and by the time they answer
> you get cheesed off and remove the  program.
>
> The BEST trial is the one that lasts for 30 actual executions or 6 months
> (whichever comes first).
>
> This stops the clever  SOD who decides to keep it running without exiting
> for 6 months but it times out anyway.
> Even better if he keeps it on for 2 days it counts as "executing" twice so
> it will last 30 days.
>
> This means I have 30 days over a 6 month period to really test it without
> rushing.
>
> The people who would game the system are the people who won't be loyal
> customer anyway, so not giving a worthwhile trial period handicaps those
> who want to give it a good try.
>
> You can also put a  nag screen  at the start of any executable with an OK
> button  link to a special discounted price - free marketing (what a
> brilliant Idea, why didn't I think of it?).
>
> But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running on a
> 16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7  processor and it  STILL runs like
> treacle.
>
> If I downloaded it today as a new person it would be off my machine in less
> than 30 minutes.
>
> You could also use this as your "marketing" system by "giving it away"  to
> schools for nothing and without the trial period but the nag screen.
>
> It can then be used by the students to learn programming at no cost - and
> some of the students parent might pony up for a paid for version at a
> student price (with no expiring standalones of cours - the most stupid idea
> of the lot so far)
>
>
> Anyway Kevin, have I/we wastedour time again putting out these cranky,
> stupid and not workable suggestions?.
>
> Lagi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 2 Sept 2021 at 15:55, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > We *are* considering the length of the trial actively, we may well give a
> > longer trial a shot at some point.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> > LiveCode: Develop Yourself
> >
> > On 02/09/2021, 15:51, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via
> > use-livecode"  > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > True, true.
> >
> > There could be a small group of programmers that pass a stack around
> > but you would not be able to convince/teach a civilian to install a
> > programming IDE and explain how to run the stack along with any other
> > supporting files, SW or plug-ins... Mobile would be a non-starter. I
> would
> > not dismiss this out-of-hand. A 90 day free IDE could also be an option.
> >
> > Ralph DiMola
> > IT Director
> > Evergreen Information Services
> > rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
> > Behalf Of Kevin Miller via use-livecode
> > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 10:31 AM
> > To: How to use LiveCode
> > Cc: Kevin Miller; Michael Kristensen
> > Subject: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
> >
> > Thanks for the constructive suggestion. Unfortunately with a free
> > non-app building version, everyone who needs to run an app can just
> > download that.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> > LiveCode: Develop Yourself
> >
> > On 02/09/2021, 14:49, "use-livecode on behalf of Michael Kristensen
> > via use-livecode"  > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi there
> >
> > I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
> >
> > That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> > 

Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Lagi Pittas via use-livecode]

Trials of 14 days or even 30 days are a waste of time. I can install
something and use it for a couple of days - then life / work gets in the way
so It sits on the computer for 31 days and then times out.

 You then have to waste your time and the companies to get an extension,
and by the time they answer
you get cheesed off and remove the  program.

The BEST trial is the one that lasts for 30 actual executions or 6 months
(whichever comes first).

This stops the clever  SOD who decides to keep it running without exiting
for 6 months but it times out anyway.
Even better if he keeps it on for 2 days it counts as "executing" twice so
it will last 30 days.

This means I have 30 days over a 6 month period to really test it without
rushing.

The people who would game the system are the people who won't be loyal
customer anyway, so not giving a worthwhile trial period handicaps those
who want to give it a good try.

You can also put a  nag screen  at the start of any executable with an OK
button  link to a special discounted price - free marketing (what a
brilliant Idea, why didn't I think of it?).

But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running on a
16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7  processor and it  STILL runs like
treacle.

If I downloaded it today as a new person it would be off my machine in less
than 30 minutes.

You could also use this as your "marketing" system by "giving it away"  to
schools for nothing and without the trial period but the nag screen.

It can then be used by the students to learn programming at no cost - and
some of the students parent might pony up for a paid for version at a
student price (with no expiring standalones of cours - the most stupid idea
of the lot so far)


Anyway Kevin, have I/we wastedour time again putting out these cranky,
stupid and not workable suggestions?.

Lagi







On Thu, 2 Sept 2021 at 15:55, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> We *are* considering the length of the trial actively, we may well give a
> longer trial a shot at some point.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Develop Yourself
>
> On 02/09/2021, 15:51, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> True, true.
>
> There could be a small group of programmers that pass a stack around
> but you would not be able to convince/teach a civilian to install a
> programming IDE and explain how to run the stack along with any other
> supporting files, SW or plug-ins... Mobile would be a non-starter. I would
> not dismiss this out-of-hand. A 90 day free IDE could also be an option.
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
> Behalf Of Kevin Miller via use-livecode
> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 10:31 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Kevin Miller; Michael Kristensen
> Subject: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>
> Thanks for the constructive suggestion. Unfortunately with a free
> non-app building version, everyone who needs to run an app can just
> download that.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Develop Yourself
>
> On 02/09/2021, 14:49, "use-livecode on behalf of Michael Kristensen
> via use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Hi there
>
> I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>
> That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.
>
> Michael
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
KIndest Regards Lagi

Re: I’m a software engineer, not a platform engineer

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

Hi Sean, based on personal experience I would say, “Keep the faith”. I’m sure 
that you and Heather can come to a solution that fits your business profile. I 
don’t think they want to lose anyone in this transition, and are willing to 
“find a solution” that will work for you. 

All the best,
Mark


> On Sep 2, 2021, at 7:06 PM, Pi Digital via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don’t know how this will play out for me. It’s all a bit skewed and too 
> fresh in my mental inbox at the moment to fully comprehend. Time will tell. 
> I’m still waiting to hear from Heather what they are offering for when my 
> next sub ends. I’m hoping they take all of the above into account. 

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: LiveCode community edition is gone

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

HI Kee,

You do know the schools license gives you complete access to all 7 platforms 
and permanent standalones for $25 a seat per year and the apps are non-expiring?

> On Sep 2, 2021, at 6:15 PM, Kee Nethery via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I like the idea of a free version that does not compile into an app. Lets 
> schools teach LiveCode and lets people learn it before deciding to buy it.
> 
> My two cents
> 
> Kee Nethery
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Licensing model change

[Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode]

Not even close it would seem. For $300 you will get Win/Mac/Lin (like we
used to). But now we'll have to pay $300 for each with some weird-as
discount applied (maybe).

It's very out of whack. I like the model used by xojo that is based on
Desktop, Web, iOS and Android. It makes much more sense. But I'm guessing
they are splitting up the desktops because of the chances that MOST
developers only develop for one platform (most likely Windows) and coding
the engine for these other platforms has to be done somewhat differently to
each other so they want to reclaim those costs. But surely those other
platforms MUST be coded anyway to maintain a 'cross-platform' environment.
So surely the cost 'should' be absorbed by all users rather than the few
who deploy to Mac/Lin.

Only my opinion verbalised. Still only based on raw info at the moment.

On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 at 20:07, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I'd also be curious how the new model compares to xojo
>
> --
Pi Digital
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Licensing model change

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I'd also be curious how the new model compares to xojo

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 12:17 PM Mike Kerner 
wrote:

> I was not paying that close attention to all the details. Did LC take the
> current community installer down? If they did not, then this act seems odd.
> If they did, then I am not surprised.
>
> On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 12:07 PM Bernard Devlin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> I see that some of "the community" have now uploaded dozens of the
>> installers from the old Livecode page to archive.org.
>>
>> https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22LiveCode%2C+Inc.%22
>>
>> I don't know what LC Ltd's thinking was in deleting the old pages, but
>> clearly some of "the community" are doing all they can to thwart LC Ltd.
>> The tragedy of the commons.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 11:49 PM doc hawk via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Kevin kayaked,
>> > >Look what happened to Open Office. It died because no one wanted to
>> work
>> > on it.
>> >
>> > ???
>> >
>> > The bulk of the developers bolted and formed LibreOffice from the OO
>> > codebase.  It’s alive and well--I just downloaded a new version this
>> > morning.
>> >
>> > It isn’t that OO faded or died, but that no-one liked the new overlords
>> > when Oracle acquired Sun.  The project itself is thriving under the new
>> > name.
>> > ___
>> > use-livecode mailing list
>> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> > subscription preferences:
>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> >
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Custom URLs

[Dan Friedman via use-livecode]

Sean,

Thank you!   But, these solutions require that the Custom URL is added to the 
app at deployment.  Not going to work for my client.   I was looking to get an 
understanding as to why these URLs need to be in the pList.  Not sure of the 
reasoning behind this... I need to be able to explain to client why I can't 
deliver their desired functionalty. 

Thank you!
-Dan


On 9/1/21, 2:34 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Sean Cole (Pi) via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Dan,
These will be useful to you:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/21893447/facebook-sdk-app-not-registered-as-a-url-scheme
https://github.com/facebookarchive/react-native-fbsdk/issues/707

Pi

On Wed, 1 Sept 2021 at 18:38, David Bovill via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I don’t know Dan as its been a while since I looked into this - but it
> sounds like a typical security thing Apple insists on for the AppStore?
> They tend (when compared to Android), to lock that sort of thing down save
> for a few standard (internet) url schema.
>
> Schedule a call with me
> On 1 Sep 2021, 18:05 +0100, Dan Friedman via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> > I need a little help here...
> >
> > I am creating a mobile app for a client that wants to simply launch
> another app. To do this, I am trying to use a custom url to launch an
> external app. For example:
> >
> > launch url "fb:"
> >
> > This works fine on Android, but on iOS, I get "no association" (yes,
> Facebook is installed). Then I read that you have to enter the Custom URLs
> you want to use in the "App URL Query Whitelist" area in the Application
> Builder. Is this true? Why does the app have to know at compile time what
> URLs are going to be opened? In my app's case, client can change and edit
> the list on a server, so the list of apps to launch are received by the 
our
> app at launch.
> >
> > "mailto:;, "http:", "music:" and "tel:" all work just fine on iOS
> without being included in the App URL Query Whitelist.
> >
> > Anyone have any insight to this process?
> >
> > Thanks in advance!
> > -Dan
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Custom URLs

[Dan Friedman via use-livecode]

Keith,

Thanks for the assist... In some cases a http call will open the mobile app if 
it's installed.  For example, https://m.facebook.com will launch the mobile 
app.  However, now with further testing, I have a new problem.  On android, if 
the app isn't installed it's not returning "no association".  The result is 
empty.  Must be a bug!  I'm using LC Business 9.6.2

Thank you!
-Dan
 

On 9/1/21, 10:36 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Keith Martin via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

Only one thought: the protocols that do work on iOS are general 
declarations that are routed to an app/service as the host OS thinks is 
appropriate. Less common ones and app-specific ones do have to be registered... 
in the app that wants to be able RECEIVE them. So if the FB app doesn’t have 
that set up already it seems it can’t be done.


https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/defining-a-custom-url-scheme-for-your-app
 


Would it work well enough to use a regular https URL to the resource on 
Facebook? It would open in the user’s browser, but it may be enough.

k


> On 1 Sep 2021, at 18:04, Dan Friedman via use-livecode 
 wrote:
> 
> I need a little help here...
> 
> I am creating a mobile app for a client that wants to simply launch 
another app.  To do this, I am trying to use a custom url to launch an external 
app.  For example:
> 
> launch url "fb:"
> 
> This works fine on Android, but on iOS, I get "no association" (yes, 
Facebook is installed).  Then I read that you have to enter the Custom URLs you 
want to use in the "App URL Query Whitelist" area in the Application Builder.   
Is this true?   Why does the app have to know at compile time what URLs are 
going to be opened?  In my app's case, client can change and edit the list on a 
server, so the list of apps to launch are received by the our app at launch.
> 
> "mailto:;, "http:", "music:" and "tel:" all work just fine on iOS without 
being included in the App URL Query Whitelist.
> 
> Anyone have any insight to this process?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> -Dan
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: LiveCode community edition is gone

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On 9/2/21 12:34 PM, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote:

Here’s the calculations as it stands for the new Standard Plan.

1 platform = $300
2 platforms = $500 ($200 more)
3 platforms = $900 (another $400 more ??)
4 platforms = $1000 ($100 more )
5 platforms = $1500 ($500 more [mind blown])
6 platforms = $1800 ($300 more)
All 7 platforms = $2000 ($200 more)

To say it’s inconsistent would be the understatement of the millennia.


The way I figure it, each platform is $300. But since many of us build for the two major ones 
(Mac and Windows) you get a $100 discount for that bundle. After that it's $300 each except for 
4 and 7 platforms, where there's also a discount.


I don't know for sure, but I suspect those three discounted combinations are the most commonly 
used amoung the user base.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Sorting text is *VERY* slow in LC9 on Windows (Re: Accumulating text is *VERY* slow in LC9 on Windows)

[Bernard Devlin via use-livecode]

Whilst waiting for a fix, would a temporary solution be to use sqlite to
create an in-memory database and let sqlite do the sorting for you?

Regards, Bernard.

On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 8:23 PM Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks to Mark Waddingham's advice about using a buffer var when
> accumulating
> a large text variabel in stages, I've now got a script that took 8 hours
> under
> LC9, and (8 minutes under LC6) down by stages to just under 1 hour under
> LC9.
>
> However I have some remaining issues not amenable to this approach; of
> which
> the most significant relates to the sort command.
>
> In all cases it seems to take much longer under LC9 than it did under LC6;
> although the factor is quite variable. The most dramatic is one instance,
> in
> which this statement:
>
> sort lines of tNewTable by item iSortCol of each
>
> takes 35 minutes to execute. `tNewTable` is a variable consisting of some
> 223,000 lines of text; approx 70MB. The exact same statement with the same
> data on the same computer in LC6 takes just 1 second.
>
> Has anyone else noticed something of this sort? As I said, the effect
> varies:
> e.g. 54 seconds versus 1 second; 22 seconds versus 1 second. So it may not
> be
> so noticeable in all cases.
>
> TIA,
>
> Ben
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Text encoding.

[Alex Tweedly via use-livecode]

On 02/09/2021 18:34, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

On 2021-09-02 12:12, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:

Sorry to drag us off the interesting topic of licensing :-) into some
Livecode question.

I know little or nothing about Unicode, text encodings, etc. - so my
question is indeed naive.

I have a text file (War & Peace from Project Gutenberg), about 3.4Mb.
The Mac describes it simply as "Plain text".


Do you have a link to the file handy?


https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2600 and then chose "Plain Text UTF-8"

or directly to https://www.gutenberg.org/files/2600/2600-0.txt

(and then I saved that page to file).





When I read that into a variable, and then do
    replace tChar by SPACE in tWholeText
it takes between 1000 and 4000 millisecs - versus the 8-10 msecs I had
expected from other samples.

If I put in
    put textEncode(tWHoleText, "UTF8") into tWholeText
before the replace then it does indeed tae 8-10 msecs.


What exact code are you using in both cases? (including reading in the 
file, char you are replacing etc.)


   put URL ("file:" & specialFolderPath("home") & "/warpeace.txt") into 
tText


and then


   put quote&"!?,.:;[]{}()£$¢%^&≤≥÷<>=+-…“‘”¡™#∞§¶*•ªº\/" into tList
   -- put textencode(pStr, "UTF8") into pStr
   repeat for each char tChar in tList
  --  put the millisecs into t1
  replace tChar with space in pStr
  --  put the millisecs - t1 && tChar  after msg
  wait 0 millisecs with messages
  --  if the shiftkey is down then exit repeat
   end repeat

Obviously, comment those lines in or out as needed.
(NB yes the times I gave are for *each* char replace, not for the whole 
loop)


The character itself is the 'undefined/illegal codepoint' which has a 
different sequence of bytes for each of the main 
(UTF-8/16LE,BE/32LE,BE) encodings. If you do `hexdump -c | less` on 
the file, then if it is UTF-8 there will be three bytes before the T, 
or 4 if it is UTF-16.



Three characters, confirming the identification in the original webpage.

Thanks,

Alex.


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: LiveCode community edition is gone

[Bernard Devlin via use-livecode]

>>
I can understand why there are users who feel betrayed by the company
especially with the new
pricing structure, and the discontinuance of support for the Community
version which was even
paid for in a marketing campaign in advance of it’s release.
<<
The vast majority of the money contributed to the Kickstarter received a
commercial license in the days after the Kickstarter closed.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28379192

I've contributed to other very high profile projects, where within a year
or so of completion the vendors lost interest in the project and
discontinued it and my _installed_ copy stopped working. No answer from
customer support, the company had the money and just moved on.  No-one who
contributed to the Kickstarter received that kind of treatment from LC Ltd.

>>
It can seem that the company keeps increasing it’s prices while taking away
functionality by
forcing users to select which specific platforms to be able to deploy to.
That seems to go against
the idea of coding once and being able to deploy to all platforms in one
affordable package.
<<

LC deploying to 3 platforms is still cheaper now than Revolution Enterprise
was 15 years ago.

>>
Access to the Community version is still very important as that is how many
users were first
introduced to LiveCode who then became paying customers. I believe the try
it before buying
model is still very important for helping users to make the purchase
decision.
<<
"... who then became paying customers..." If that was true I don't think LC
Ltd would have felt the need to terminate the free offering.  There are
lots of people who have admitted that they didn't see the point in paying
for a license when the free version could do 99% of what the licensed
version could do.

The tragedy is that many people are too selfish to see the bigger picture.
I know dozens of parents who spend far more on the mobile phone contracts
for their children than the LC starter license costs.  Those parents know
they can't get a free phone for their kids so they pay up.

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 5:14 PM Rick Harrison via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
>
> > On Sep 1, 2021, at 11:44 AM, Dan Brown via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > That's a bit harsh, are you forgetting the amount of money that was
> > contributed by users to the fund raisers over the years?  > $600k
> >
>
>
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

Kevin,

Keeping a short trial gives the impression of a lack of confidence in the
platforms ability to prove and provide its value.

a 90 day trial would allow people to really dive in, to start on their
project, and help to ensure that decisions are not rushed.

I just can't see how a short trial works better for livecode.  It literally
forces people to decide, and when they are forced to decide, that may put
the company on the losing end.

Let the platform prove its value to the user.

60 or 90 days projects confidence.10 days does not.

Just my 2 cents on that..

Thanks,

Tom



On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 1:28 PM Keith Clarke via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I came to Livecode from lightweight website hackery - cobbling together
> HTML & CSS as a non-coder (using W3schools guidance for every live of
> javascript). I was (and still am) relieved by the higher-level English-like
> language of Livecode.
>
> None of the (dozens of) utilities I’ve created for my personal & small
> business use have ever needed to move beyond the IDE - or a single card for
> that matter. The Livecode IDE has become a personal toolbelt item for me.
>
> If the Livecode team can keep this ‘personal toolbelt’ IDE concept
> available to students for free (and home users for little) - the way
> Microsoft does with Office - could bring through the next generation of
> paying developers. But one doesn’t reach the long-term without passing
> through the short-term. So, meanwhile, they need to do what they must to
> keep the ship afloat and the crew inspired.
>
> Just my tuppence-worth.
> Best,
> Keith
>
> > On 2 Sep 2021, at 15:50, Roger Guay via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Sounds like a very cool idea to me, but I’m sure it’s complicated! I
> trust LC to do what’s best for its future.
> >
> > Roger
> >
> >
> >> On Sep 2, 2021, at 7:34 AM, Keith Martin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I think this is (potentially) an excellent idea. Running stacks is more
> important in education use than building standalones, and the knowledge
> that a standalone CAN be made by simply ’trading up’ to a paid-for version
> of LC might be an interesting sell. But I would be surprised if this sort
> of thing hasn’t already been considered.
> >>
> >> k
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 2 Sep 2021, at 15:20, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> This is a good idea. I sometimes use the IDE to do a quickie text
> >>> manipulation task. A couple of buttons and some text file/db
> processing and
> >>> BOOM! It's done in the fraction of the time of other languages. I have
> now
> >>> done some text chunk coding that highlights many of LCs features. I
> can now
> >>> buy a platform or two If I want to expand the IDE to building
> distributable
> >>> apps.
> >>>
> >>> Ralph DiMola
> >>> IT Director
> >>> Evergreen Information Services
> >>> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
> Behalf
> >>> Of Michael Kristensen via use-livecode
> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 9:50 AM
> >>> To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >>> Cc: Michael Kristensen
> >>> Subject: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
> >>>
> >>> Hi there
> >>>
> >>> I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
> >>>
> >>> That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.
> >>>
> >>> Michael
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription
> >>> preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Tom Glod
Founder & Developer
MakeShyft R.D.A 

I’m a software engineer, not a platform engineer.

[Pi Digital via use-livecode]

Peace to all at this difficult time. 

My working structure doesn’t seem to fit in with the new ‘model’ that LiveCode 
have imposed on us earlier this week. I understand their need to change and up 
their methodology. And I’m sure their model probably does fit the vast majority 
of LC users and will benefit them greatly. But it doesn’t fit mine even 
closely. 

I’m a software engineer, not specifically to any platform. As a freelancer I 
work where the need is. Any given client will have any number of needs. 

My main client work is almost exclusively for the Windows environment although 
we were trying to get it moved over to HTML. This failed because the LC 
deployment to that platform was not fit for use and so we await eagerly LC10 
(despite continuing to have to pay the subscription while they fix it). We have 
also used the Linux deployment for a period until CentOS got dropped from our 
server. 

But other clients, especially in the TV, Film and AV industry, could require 
software being produced for any given platform depending on their needs. These 
projects last little more than a month. But I have to pay for a full years 
licence as and when I’d need it. But I won’t be able to get a ‘bundle discount’ 
as they put it. But they don’t hold prices for upgrading a current 
subscription. So one can only assume they will carry on charging $300 per 
platform per year plus any other addons. 

What LiveCode (and probably most on here) would say is that I should have to 
charge whatever deployment fee I have to pay on top of my usual fees. Which 
sounds ok except for many of these quick turnaround jobs it basically makes it 
unviable to the end clients. So I’m guessing that means most of my clients will 
disappear. Again. Or I am forced to buy all platforms ‘just in case’ and try to 
absorb the cost into future possible work. Which sucks. And is there in no way 
equivalent to what I currently pay. 

I don’t know how this will play out for me. It’s all a bit skewed and too fresh 
in my mental inbox at the moment to fully comprehend. Time will tell. I’m still 
waiting to hear from Heather what they are offering for when my next sub ends. 
I’m hoping they take all of the above into account. 

All the best to all of you. 

Sean
Pi

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Length of Trial for xAPI Cohort use

[Brian K. Duck via use-livecode]


Kevin,

I recently led a project where a group of programmers from this list stepped up 
and taught LiveCode to a group of Instructional Designers as part of the Spring 
xAPI Cohort. We were able to build a minimum viable product in a few weeks, 
share the code in GitHub and make multiple project improvements by working in 
parallel.

The project status was reported out in the weekly cohort sessions and captured 
in GitHub, project meetings and demos were recorded and published in YouTube 
videos and GitHub, and the final projects were demonstrated during the xAPI 
Cohort final session and xAPI Party. The final session and xAPI Party we’re 
recorded and archived for later viewing.

“The xAPI Learning Cohort is a free, vendor-neutral, 12-week learning-by-doing 
project-based team learning experience about the Experience API. “

So, a 12 week trial to meet the semester long session would match the needs of 
educators better than a 30 or 90 day trial.

Brian

MORE DETAILS on the xAPI Cohort
Register here:
https://xapicohort.com/

Email will be sent with meeting and slack messaging info, later you will 
receive info on how to join the cohort GitHub for details on current and past 
projects.

It’s FREE, and starts TODAY. 9/2/21 at 2PM Eastern
(Forgive the redundancy, I’m copying and pasting on an iPad!)

If you miss a session, the url for the recording is sent to those registered.

(Yep, you read that right – free!) It’s an opportunity for those who are brand 
new to xAPI and those who are looking to experiment with it to learn from each 
other and from the work itself.

Participants form teams based on shared interests and work together on an xAPI 
project. Each cohort features some predefined projects so you can jump right 
into something that sounds interesting and of course you can come with your own 
project idea and gather a team around you to get moving (or bring your team!). 
Past projects have included an onboarding checklist that leverages the Internet 
of Things (IoT), a game that tracks user clicks as a way to identify UX gaps, 
and exploration of LMS-LRS interoperability.

xAPI Learning Cohorts run twice a year in spring and fall “semesters” with 
weekly all-group web meetings on Thursdays 2pm US Eastern Time chock-full of 
introductory information, practical how-tos, and high-level discussions of the 
implications for our industry. Teams work on real-life projects that interest 
them and set their own meeting and working schedules. Oh, and it’s ok to just 
hang out on the sidelines and observe the action if taking on a team project is 
too much right now. It’s also ok to participate on more than one project team 
during a Cohort session.

Best of all, the Cohort is FREE, virtual (so anyone anywhere in the world can 
participate), and tool/platform agnostic. 
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Text encoding.

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2021-09-02 18:34, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

The character itself is the 'undefined/illegal codepoint' which has a
different sequence of bytes for each of the main
(UTF-8/16LE,BE/32LE,BE) encodings. If you do `hexdump -c | less` on
the file, then if it is UTF-8 there will be three bytes before the T,
or 4 if it is UTF-16.


Correcting myself - 4 if it is UTF-32 (which is exceptionally unlikely); 
2 if it is UTF-16.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Sorting text is *VERY* slow in LC9 on Windows (Re: Accumulating text is *VERY* slow in LC9 on Windows)

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2021-08-30 20:22, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:

Thanks to Mark Waddingham's advice about using a buffer var when
accumulating a large text variabel in stages, I've now got a script
that took 8 hours under LC9, and (8 minutes under LC6) down by stages
to just under 1 hour under LC9.

Has anyone else noticed something of this sort? As I said, the effect
varies: e.g. 54 seconds versus 1 second; 22 seconds versus 1 second.
So it may not be so noticeable in all cases.


It will undoubtedly be the same problem as your accumulation slowness - 
as the sort routines use (essentially) `put after` to reconstruct the 
string after sort. So fixing the accumulation slowness will fix sort.


Indeed, there's a further optimization to be had in sort now I come to 
think of it (probably relatively minor after the accumulation problem is 
sorted) - the sorted buffer size (in chars) will be the same as the 
input buffer size as its just a permutation of the lines - so the output 
buffer can be pre-allocated at the right size.


We will endeavour to fix for 9.6.5-rc-1 (due 'real soon now'!).

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: LiveCode community edition is gone

[Pi Digital via use-livecode]

Rick has brought to mind an interesting point about the new pricing model. It’s 
one that I think of occasionally. Currently and in the new model we pay for 
each deployment. But it’s a bit odd. Surely what we should be paying for is the 
Core engine and then smaller amounts for each deployment module we wish to add 
in. As it is we are paying say $300 for Win/Mac/Lin then $300 for iOS then $300 
for html (which doesn’t work, but that’s a whole other thread) and so on. Now 
we’re being told we’re going to have to pay for Win, then Mac, then Lin then 
HTML and so on. It just seems a bit off to me. 

Needless to say, because of my commitments, I am forced to do whatever LC 
impose on us and there’s not a great deal I or any of us can do about it. They 
could raise it by $1M per platform and I’d still have to put myself into 
bankruptcy territory to carry on with my work. I’m just saying, it ‘feels’ a 
little off. 

I’m hoping the the calculator on the pricing page is just majorly broken. 

Here’s the calculations as it stands for the new Standard Plan. 

1 platform = $300
2 platforms = $500 ($200 more)
3 platforms = $900 (another $400 more ??)
4 platforms = $1000 ($100 more )
5 platforms = $1500 ($500 more [mind blown])
6 platforms = $1800 ($300 more)
All 7 platforms = $2000 ($200 more)

To say it’s inconsistent would be the understatement of the millennia. 

Add Email support and/or the pro features pack and the numbers are even more 
baffling. 

Barmy! Hopefully Kevin/Heather can put us right on how the pricing was worked 
out coz I’m blown if I can work it out as a mathematician. 

Sean Cole
Pi Digital Productions Ltd

eMail Ts & Cs


> On 2 Sep 2021, at 17:13, Rick Harrison via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Dan,
> 
> Yes, there were a lot of us who specifically contributed to make the 
> Community version possible
> as open source.  One of the justifications was that if the company went under 
> we would still have
> the Community version available to us. The promise that the company would 
> also support it was
> equally appealing. While the original intent was to use the Community version 
> to widen the user
> base, and get more paying customers, it apparently didn’t get enough of them 
> to be able to
> justify sustaining the Community version. 
> 
> I can understand why there are users who feel betrayed by the company 
> especially with the new 
> pricing structure, and the discontinuance of support for the Community 
> version which was even 
> paid for in a marketing campaign in advance of it’s release.
> 
> It can seem that the company keeps increasing it’s prices while taking away 
> functionality by
> forcing users to select which specific platforms to be able to deploy to. 
> That seems to go against 
> the idea of coding once and being able to deploy to all platforms in one 
> affordable package.
> 
> Access to the Community version is still very important as that is how many 
> users were first
> introduced to LiveCode who then became paying customers. I believe the try it 
> before buying 
> model is still very important for helping users to make the purchase decision.
> 
> It would be nice if the company were willing to provide the final version of 
> the Community 
> version under an MIT license instead of GPL since they will no longer be 
> supporting it at all, and 
> it marks a true fork in the road from the codebase going forward.  That might 
> make the transition
> easier to accept for some users. Continually making users of your product 
> feel disappointed
> or angry isn’t a good marketing strategy.  The happier you can make your 
> customers the better
> your business will be!
> 
> I think it’s great that the CEO is interested in negotiating with those users 
> who feel they can’t
> afford the new pricing structure, which is certainly something one would 
> never see with
> large companies like Disney.
> 
> The LC community is going through a shock with so much change that had no 
> gradual hints
> about it. Acceptance of the changes will take time as it always does, but we 
> will adjust.
> 
> Just my 2 cent observations for the day.
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2021, at 11:44 AM, Dan Brown via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> That's a bit harsh, are you forgetting the amount of money that was
>> contributed by users to the fund raisers over the years?  > $600k
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Text encoding.

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2021-09-02 12:12, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:

Sorry to drag us off the interesting topic of licensing :-) into some
Livecode question.

I know little or nothing about Unicode, text encodings, etc. - so my
question is indeed naive.

I have a text file (War & Peace from Project Gutenberg), about 3.4Mb.
The Mac describes it simply as "Plain text".


Do you have a link to the file handy?



When I read that into a variable, and then do
    replace tChar by SPACE in tWholeText
it takes between 1000 and 4000 millisecs - versus the 8-10 msecs I had
expected from other samples.

If I put in
    put textEncode(tWHoleText, "UTF8") into tWholeText
before the replace then it does indeed tae 8-10 msecs.


What exact code are you using in both cases? (including reading in the 
file, char you are replacing etc.)



Additional info - I just discovered that according to 'more' command
line, the file start with :

The Project 


That suggests the file is unicode encoded - it is a 'byte order mark'.

The character itself is the 'undefined/illegal codepoint' which has a 
different sequence of bytes for each of the main (UTF-8/16LE,BE/32LE,BE) 
encodings. If you do `hexdump -c | less` on the file, then if it is 
UTF-8 there will be three bytes before the T, or 4 if it is UTF-16.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Keith Clarke via use-livecode]

I came to Livecode from lightweight website hackery - cobbling together HTML & 
CSS as a non-coder (using W3schools guidance for every live of javascript). I 
was (and still am) relieved by the higher-level English-like language of 
Livecode. 

None of the (dozens of) utilities I’ve created for my personal & small business 
use have ever needed to move beyond the IDE - or a single card for that matter. 
The Livecode IDE has become a personal toolbelt item for me.

If the Livecode team can keep this ‘personal toolbelt’ IDE concept available to 
students for free (and home users for little) - the way Microsoft does with 
Office - could bring through the next generation of paying developers. But one 
doesn’t reach the long-term without passing through the short-term. So, 
meanwhile, they need to do what they must to keep the ship afloat and the crew 
inspired.

Just my tuppence-worth.
Best,
Keith   

> On 2 Sep 2021, at 15:50, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sounds like a very cool idea to me, but I’m sure it’s complicated! I trust LC 
> to do what’s best for its future.
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
>> On Sep 2, 2021, at 7:34 AM, Keith Martin via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I think this is (potentially) an excellent idea. Running stacks is more 
>> important in education use than building standalones, and the knowledge that 
>> a standalone CAN be made by simply ’trading up’ to a paid-for version of LC 
>> might be an interesting sell. But I would be surprised if this sort of thing 
>> hasn’t already been considered.
>> 
>> k
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2 Sep 2021, at 15:20, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> This is a good idea. I sometimes use the IDE to do a quickie text
>>> manipulation task. A couple of buttons and some text file/db processing and
>>> BOOM! It's done in the fraction of the time of other languages. I have now
>>> done some text chunk coding that highlights many of LCs features. I can now
>>> buy a platform or two If I want to expand the IDE to building distributable
>>> apps.
>>> 
>>> Ralph DiMola
>>> IT Director
>>> Evergreen Information Services
>>> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
>>> Of Michael Kristensen via use-livecode
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 9:50 AM
>>> To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Cc: Michael Kristensen
>>> Subject: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>>> 
>>> Hi there
>>> 
>>> I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>>> 
>>> That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.
>>> 
>>> Michael
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
>>> preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: LiveCode community edition is gone

[Kee Nethery via use-livecode]

I like the idea of a free version that does not compile into an app. Lets 
schools teach LiveCode and lets people learn it before deciding to buy it.

My two cents

Kee Nethery
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: LiveCode community edition is gone

[doc hawk via use-livecode]

Rick rumbled,

> It would be nice if the company were willing to provide the final version of 
> the Community 
> version under an MIT license instead of GPL since they will no longer be 
> supporting it at all, and 
> it marks a true fork in the road from the codebase going forward.

While it sounds nice, and would address a certain need, it simply isn’t 
practical.

I wrote the seminal economic paper on the economics of open source for the firm.

A BSD license release would be downright suicidal, as it could be a “most of 
the way there” stepping stone for a commercial competitor.
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Licensing model change

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I was not paying that close attention to all the details. Did LC take the
current community installer down? If they did not, then this act seems odd.
If they did, then I am not surprised.

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 12:07 PM Bernard Devlin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I see that some of "the community" have now uploaded dozens of the
> installers from the old Livecode page to archive.org.
>
> https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22LiveCode%2C+Inc.%22
>
> I don't know what LC Ltd's thinking was in deleting the old pages, but
> clearly some of "the community" are doing all they can to thwart LC Ltd.
> The tragedy of the commons.
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 11:49 PM doc hawk via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Kevin kayaked,
> > >Look what happened to Open Office. It died because no one wanted to work
> > on it.
> >
> > ???
> >
> > The bulk of the developers bolted and formed LibreOffice from the OO
> > codebase.  It’s alive and well--I just downloaded a new version this
> > morning.
> >
> > It isn’t that OO faded or died, but that no-one liked the new overlords
> > when Oracle acquired Sun.  The project itself is thriving under the new
> > name.
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: LiveCode community edition is gone

[Rick Harrison via use-livecode]

Hi Dan,

Yes, there were a lot of us who specifically contributed to make the Community 
version possible
as open source.  One of the justifications was that if the company went under 
we would still have
the Community version available to us. The promise that the company would also 
support it was
equally appealing. While the original intent was to use the Community version 
to widen the user
base, and get more paying customers, it apparently didn’t get enough of them to 
be able to
justify sustaining the Community version. 

I can understand why there are users who feel betrayed by the company 
especially with the new 
pricing structure, and the discontinuance of support for the Community version 
which was even 
paid for in a marketing campaign in advance of it’s release.

It can seem that the company keeps increasing it’s prices while taking away 
functionality by
forcing users to select which specific platforms to be able to deploy to. That 
seems to go against 
the idea of coding once and being able to deploy to all platforms in one 
affordable package.

Access to the Community version is still very important as that is how many 
users were first 
introduced to LiveCode who then became paying customers. I believe the try it 
before buying 
model is still very important for helping users to make the purchase decision.

It would be nice if the company were willing to provide the final version of 
the Community 
version under an MIT license instead of GPL since they will no longer be 
supporting it at all, and 
it marks a true fork in the road from the codebase going forward.  That might 
make the transition
easier to accept for some users. Continually making users of your product feel 
disappointed
or angry isn’t a good marketing strategy.  The happier you can make your 
customers the better
your business will be!

I think it’s great that the CEO is interested in negotiating with those users 
who feel they can’t
afford the new pricing structure, which is certainly something one would never 
see with
large companies like Disney.

The LC community is going through a shock with so much change that had no 
gradual hints
about it. Acceptance of the changes will take time as it always does, but we 
will adjust.

Just my 2 cent observations for the day.

Rick

> On Sep 1, 2021, at 11:44 AM, Dan Brown via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> That's a bit harsh, are you forgetting the amount of money that was
> contributed by users to the fund raisers over the years?  > $600k
> 




___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Licensing model change

[Bernard Devlin via use-livecode]

I see that some of "the community" have now uploaded dozens of the
installers from the old Livecode page to archive.org.

https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22LiveCode%2C+Inc.%22

I don't know what LC Ltd's thinking was in deleting the old pages, but
clearly some of "the community" are doing all they can to thwart LC Ltd.
The tragedy of the commons.


On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 11:49 PM doc hawk via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> Kevin kayaked,
> >Look what happened to Open Office. It died because no one wanted to work
> on it.
>
> ???
>
> The bulk of the developers bolted and formed LibreOffice from the OO
> codebase.  It’s alive and well--I just downloaded a new version this
> morning.
>
> It isn’t that OO faded or died, but that no-one liked the new overlords
> when Oracle acquired Sun.  The project itself is thriving under the new
> name.
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Bye, and thanks for the fish

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

+1

> On Sep 2, 2021, at 01:38 , Bernard Devlin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Over on the forum Kevin has been encouraging people to contact support with
> any issues. Some are refusing to do so, making ridiculous demands in
> response.
> 
> Yesterday I had a look at the historical prices to see if LC was
> significantly more expensive than Metacard:
> 2001 - Metacard ($995)  [$288]
> 2005 - Revolution Enterprise (£899) [£243]
> 2021 - Livecode (3x distro platforms £720) [£1316]
> 
> In square brackets behind each is [the price of an ounce of gold] (if
> someone's got a better comparator, they can post it e.g. crude oil, pork
> bellies, cost of an entry level Mac, etc).
> 
> So Metacard cost 3 ounces of gold, Rev Enterprise cost 3.7 oz of gold,
> today's Livecode equivalent costs 0.54 oz of gold.  Even if one adds all 7
> of the distro platforms (3 of which certainly didn't exist in 2005), a full
> Livecode license costs just over 1oz of gold, so between 1/3rd of the price
> of 15 years ago (or as little as 1/6th the price of Metacard). Objectively
> speaking, the customer today gets so much more for so much less.  Apart
> from those who have been used to getting something for free.
> 
> It was only this time last year I stated how amazing it was that Livecode
> manages all the complexity of producing software that runs on so many
> divergent platforms (I was navigating the version compatibilities of Xcode,
> Android Studio, MacOS, iOS, AndroidOS, Windows OS, and Livecode), not to
> mention producing two different versions of Livecode (free and
> commercial).  Something had to give.
> 
> Regards, Bernard
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[David Bovill via use-livecode]

A web only version however that allowed you to learn and experiment with the 
language and develop free and open source server side code would not suffer 
this limitation. You would not be able to use that to build apps.

There are options to retain open source community versions that do not 
canabalise the app making aspect of the business.

    Schedule a call with me
On 2 Sep 2021, 15:31 +0100, Kevin Miller via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> Thanks for the constructive suggestion. Unfortunately with a free non-app 
> building version, everyone who needs to run an app can just download that.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Develop Yourself
>
> On 02/09/2021, 14:49, "use-livecode on behalf of Michael Kristensen via 
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Hi there
>
> I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>
> That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.
>
> Michael
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[David Bovill via use-livecode]

That’s an interesting idea.

I’m wondering if a bit of terminology is helpful here - there seem to be two 
distinct things that have been put together previously - community and open 
source.

The needs of the two are not always aligned - especially with LiveCode where an 
easy to use well documented and low cost community edition is not necessarily 
the sane as an open source software that might be quite geeky.

For me it makes more sense for LiveCode LTD to focus on easy to use products 
that are packaged for community and commercial use, while the open source 
aspect fits the needs of more specialised developers.

We could achieve both, that is your proposal for a non-app building open source 
version for easy introduction and learning of the language and something 
developers would find interesting to work on - if the focus was on the core of 
the language that runs on the server.

That way there can be a web experience which is accessible, but you would want 
to buy the commercial edition if you wanted to develop apps and leverage more 
advanced tools.

    Schedule a call with me
On 2 Sep 2021, 14:51 +0100, Michael Kristensen via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> Hi there
>
> I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>
> That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.
>
> Michael
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I don't know how much of a difference the compiling/building makes. While
it is true that anyone who wants to "run an app" (even that's obviously
incorrect, since stacks <> apps) can just download the free version, there
is no way for that author to protect the source. Is that enough of an
incentive for someone to pay up - so they can build an app instead of
distributing an unlocked stack? I don't know. Will cutting them off from
tsNet, or building/distributing mobile/server/web matter? Again, dunno.
I am curious to know how much business any firm generates from either a
trial or from a free version - like how many people take a flier and then
decide to pay up as a result. My hunch is that more people grow from a free
version to a paid version than grow from a free trial to a paid version. I
think free trials are more like test drives.
At any rate, I'm hoping that LC can make money.

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 10:52 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> True, true.
>
> There could be a small group of programmers that pass a stack around but
> you would not be able to convince/teach a civilian to install a programming
> IDE and explain how to run the stack along with any other supporting files,
> SW or plug-ins... Mobile would be a non-starter. I would not dismiss this
> out-of-hand. A 90 day free IDE could also be an option.
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
> Behalf Of Kevin Miller via use-livecode
> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 10:31 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Kevin Miller; Michael Kristensen
> Subject: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>
> Thanks for the constructive suggestion. Unfortunately with a free non-app
> building version, everyone who needs to run an app can just download that.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Develop Yourself
>
> On 02/09/2021, 14:49, "use-livecode on behalf of Michael Kristensen via
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Hi there
>
> I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>
> That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.
>
> Michael
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

We *are* considering the length of the trial actively, we may well give a 
longer trial a shot at some point.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 15:51, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

True, true.

There could be a small group of programmers that pass a stack around but 
you would not be able to convince/teach a civilian to install a programming IDE 
and explain how to run the stack along with any other supporting files, SW or 
plug-ins... Mobile would be a non-starter. I would not dismiss this 
out-of-hand. A 90 day free IDE could also be an option.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf 
Of Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 10:31 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Kevin Miller; Michael Kristensen
Subject: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

Thanks for the constructive suggestion. Unfortunately with a free non-app 
building version, everyone who needs to run an app can just download that.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 14:49, "use-livecode on behalf of Michael Kristensen via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Hi there

I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.

Michael

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

RE: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

True, true.

There could be a small group of programmers that pass a stack around but you 
would not be able to convince/teach a civilian to install a programming IDE and 
explain how to run the stack along with any other supporting files, SW or 
plug-ins... Mobile would be a non-starter. I would not dismiss this 
out-of-hand. A 90 day free IDE could also be an option.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 10:31 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Kevin Miller; Michael Kristensen
Subject: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

Thanks for the constructive suggestion. Unfortunately with a free non-app 
building version, everyone who needs to run an app can just download that.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 14:49, "use-livecode on behalf of Michael Kristensen via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Hi there

I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.

Michael

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Sounds like a very cool idea to me, but I’m sure it’s complicated! I trust LC 
to do what’s best for its future.

Roger


> On Sep 2, 2021, at 7:34 AM, Keith Martin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think this is (potentially) an excellent idea. Running stacks is more 
> important in education use than building standalones, and the knowledge that 
> a standalone CAN be made by simply ’trading up’ to a paid-for version of LC 
> might be an interesting sell. But I would be surprised if this sort of thing 
> hasn’t already been considered.
> 
> k
> 
> 
>> On 2 Sep 2021, at 15:20, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> This is a good idea. I sometimes use the IDE to do a quickie text
>> manipulation task. A couple of buttons and some text file/db processing and
>> BOOM! It's done in the fraction of the time of other languages. I have now
>> done some text chunk coding that highlights many of LCs features. I can now
>> buy a platform or two If I want to expand the IDE to building distributable
>> apps.
>> 
>> Ralph DiMola
>> IT Director
>> Evergreen Information Services
>> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
>> Of Michael Kristensen via use-livecode
>> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 9:50 AM
>> To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Cc: Michael Kristensen
>> Subject: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>> 
>> Hi there
>> 
>> I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>> 
>> That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.
>> 
>> Michael
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Dan Brown via use-livecode]

Everyone who needs to run an app can download an old installer to run (and
build) it right now. There will always be a subset of people looking to
game a given system but thinking in the positive, a non committal download
that doesn't allow builds is a great way to reduce friction

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 3:31 PM Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the constructive suggestion. Unfortunately with a free non-app
> building version, everyone who needs to run an app can just download that.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Develop Yourself
>
> On 02/09/2021, 14:49, "use-livecode on behalf of Michael Kristensen via
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Hi there
>
> I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>
> That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.
>
> Michael
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Keith Martin via use-livecode]

I think this is (potentially) an excellent idea. Running stacks is more 
important in education use than building standalones, and the knowledge that a 
standalone CAN be made by simply ’trading up’ to a paid-for version of LC might 
be an interesting sell. But I would be surprised if this sort of thing hasn’t 
already been considered.

k


> On 2 Sep 2021, at 15:20, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> This is a good idea. I sometimes use the IDE to do a quickie text
> manipulation task. A couple of buttons and some text file/db processing and
> BOOM! It's done in the fraction of the time of other languages. I have now
> done some text chunk coding that highlights many of LCs features. I can now
> buy a platform or two If I want to expand the IDE to building distributable
> apps.
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
> Of Michael Kristensen via use-livecode
> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 9:50 AM
> To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Cc: Michael Kristensen
> Subject: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
> 
> Hi there
> 
> I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
> 
> That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.
> 
> Michael
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Thanks for the constructive suggestion. Unfortunately with a free non-app 
building version, everyone who needs to run an app can just download that.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 14:49, "use-livecode on behalf of Michael Kristensen via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Hi there

I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.

Michael

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

RE: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

This is a good idea. I sometimes use the IDE to do a quickie text
manipulation task. A couple of buttons and some text file/db processing and
BOOM! It's done in the fraction of the time of other languages. I have now
done some text chunk coding that highlights many of LCs features. I can now
buy a platform or two If I want to expand the IDE to building distributable
apps.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Michael Kristensen via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 9:50 AM
To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Cc: Michael Kristensen
Subject: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

Hi there

I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.

Michael

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Michael Kristensen via use-livecode]

Hi there

I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.

Michael

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Calling all fish!

[Drs Mark Schonewille via use-livecode]

David,

I sent you an e-mail yesterday. Maybe in your spam box.

Mark Schonewille
Economy-x-Talk
KvK 50277553
VAT NL002099948B21
https://ecxtalk.nl
https://www.nt2.nu

Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner
http://www3.economy-x-talk.com/file.php?node=programming-livecode-for-the-real-beginner

Op 2-9-2021 om 14:22 schreef David Bovill via use-livecode:

Don’t go , we love you :)

The open source version, is alive. It just needs maintainers. Personally I 
think this move by LiveCode is healthy. We now have two choices a free open 
source edition maintained by the community, and a closed source version 
maintained by LiveCode LTD. If you want to use the commercial wizz-bang extras 
LiveCode LTD adds - then you can upgrade.

In the meantime the language should go it’s own way. The language I believe has 
always wanted to be a free and open literate language, that enables anyone to 
code in an English like syntax. That vision was the foundation of the 
Kickstarter Campaign and was called Open Language.

I believe the community should maintain that vision. I for one am going to dive 
in :) I see this in two parts.

The first is preserving and maintaining the current code base. The LiveCode 
engine is rich and powerful. Using the current community edition you can create 
pretty well anything you want. Preserving this and strengthening the existing 
sharing of code, and documentation gets us a long way.

Second I feel we should aspire to something meaningful and motivating for the 
future of the language. This would be a long term vision, with a lot of 
learning on the road there. This is how I see it for myself personally, and of 
course I would love it if I had some company on the way :)

Open Language is something I know that is close to LiveCode Ltd’s heart, but it 
is hampered by the need to preserve the legacy  of maintaining complex and 
user-friendly IDE. That with the perceived commercial need to provide all the 
present abilities of the standalone builder mean that it is not a realistic 
proposition. However we can simplify by focussing only on the pure language as 
used by the server - this is a manageable task.

Freeing Open Language from this legacy is a good thing. When it is truly free 
it can join on equal footing the other great languages out there, and still 
hopefully remain compatible with LiveCode Ltd’s commercial offering. For me my 
journey is about mastering the tools that enable the creation of modern 
languages, and these tools have come a long way.

I’m heading on a family holiday now - but over the next two weeks - in 
discussion and with the advice of whoever is interested - Ill get a web site up 
for the project.

    Schedule a call with me
On 2 Sep 2021, 02:29 +0100, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
, wrote:

It’s, “So long, and thanks for all the fish!” And unless you can do a double 
360 back flip while passing through a smallish ring suspended above the pool, I 
remain unimpressed.

Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 1, 2021, at 17:53, Neville Smythe via use-livecode 
 wrote:



On 1 Sep 2021, at 11:36 pm, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:

i am not sure, if everyone is aware of it, but standalones that were created 
with the Starter Plan license will expire as soon as the Startert Plan 
subscription expires.

Not even Apple is that rapacious.

I used to have a commercial licence back when I was selling stuff (although the 
economics of software never made sense). Since retiring I have been 
“freeloading" with the Community edition as a hobbyist, my only LC uses being 
for personal use, and maintaining admin and operating software I wrote for a 
not-for-profit sporting organisation, and occasionally contributing bug reports. I 
can well understand the need for LC to move to a profitable basis, and I would be 
happy buy a plan if it made sense for our use, but there is no way my NFP 
association can afford US$1000 every year - or even one year (we would use 3 
platforms, and not even the Server is thrown in with the desktop platforms). And a 
Starter Kit that means the app would stop working when I pass on (I have been around 
since Hypercard day 1) is an insult. Seems to me the hobbyist use of LC has come to 
an end. A great pity, but I guess times move on.

I have greatly enjoyed being part of this (mostly) friendly and generous 
community for many years.

Neville Smythe

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com

Re: Bye, and thanks for the fish

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

@keith ok, so run the numbers

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 7:56 AM Keith Martin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Unless someone’s hoarding gold that’s an interesting but not all that
> useful pricing comparison. I prefer the Big Mac Index (
> https://www.statista.com/statistics/274326/big-mac-index-global-prices-for-a-big-mac/
> <
> https://www.statista.com/statistics/274326/big-mac-index-global-prices-for-a-big-mac/>)
> and regular historical inflation/value charts. ;)
>
> However, yes, we do get a lot from LC.
>
> k
>
>
> > On 2 Sep 2021, at 09:38, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Over on the forum Kevin has been encouraging people to contact support
> with
> > any issues. Some are refusing to do so, making ridiculous demands in
> > response.
> >
> > Yesterday I had a look at the historical prices to see if LC was
> > significantly more expensive than Metacard:
> > 2001 - Metacard ($995)  [$288]
> > 2005 - Revolution Enterprise (£899) [£243]
> > 2021 - Livecode (3x distro platforms £720) [£1316]
> >
> > In square brackets behind each is [the price of an ounce of gold] (if
> > someone's got a better comparator, they can post it e.g. crude oil, pork
> > bellies, cost of an entry level Mac, etc).
> >
> > So Metacard cost 3 ounces of gold, Rev Enterprise cost 3.7 oz of gold,
> > today's Livecode equivalent costs 0.54 oz of gold.  Even if one adds all
> 7
> > of the distro platforms (3 of which certainly didn't exist in 2005), a
> full
> > Livecode license costs just over 1oz of gold, so between 1/3rd of the
> price
> > of 15 years ago (or as little as 1/6th the price of Metacard).
> Objectively
> > speaking, the customer today gets so much more for so much less.  Apart
> > from those who have been used to getting something for free.
> >
> > It was only this time last year I stated how amazing it was that Livecode
> > manages all the complexity of producing software that runs on so many
> > divergent platforms (I was navigating the version compatibilities of
> Xcode,
> > Android Studio, MacOS, iOS, AndroidOS, Windows OS, and Livecode), not to
> > mention producing two different versions of Livecode (free and
> > commercial).  Something had to give.
> >
> > Regards, Bernard
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Calling all fish!

[David Bovill via use-livecode]

Don’t go , we love you :)

The open source version, is alive. It just needs maintainers. Personally I 
think this move by LiveCode is healthy. We now have two choices a free open 
source edition maintained by the community, and a closed source version 
maintained by LiveCode LTD. If you want to use the commercial wizz-bang extras 
LiveCode LTD adds - then you can upgrade.

In the meantime the language should go it’s own way. The language I believe has 
always wanted to be a free and open literate language, that enables anyone to 
code in an English like syntax. That vision was the foundation of the 
Kickstarter Campaign and was called Open Language.

I believe the community should maintain that vision. I for one am going to dive 
in :) I see this in two parts.

The first is preserving and maintaining the current code base. The LiveCode 
engine is rich and powerful. Using the current community edition you can create 
pretty well anything you want. Preserving this and strengthening the existing 
sharing of code, and documentation gets us a long way.

Second I feel we should aspire to something meaningful and motivating for the 
future of the language. This would be a long term vision, with a lot of 
learning on the road there. This is how I see it for myself personally, and of 
course I would love it if I had some company on the way :)

Open Language is something I know that is close to LiveCode Ltd’s heart, but it 
is hampered by the need to preserve the legacy  of maintaining complex and 
user-friendly IDE. That with the perceived commercial need to provide all the 
present abilities of the standalone builder mean that it is not a realistic 
proposition. However we can simplify by focussing only on the pure language as 
used by the server - this is a manageable task.

Freeing Open Language from this legacy is a good thing. When it is truly free 
it can join on equal footing the other great languages out there, and still 
hopefully remain compatible with LiveCode Ltd’s commercial offering. For me my 
journey is about mastering the tools that enable the creation of modern 
languages, and these tools have come a long way.

I’m heading on a family holiday now - but over the next two weeks - in 
discussion and with the advice of whoever is interested - Ill get a web site up 
for the project.

    Schedule a call with me
On 2 Sep 2021, 02:29 +0100, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> It’s, “So long, and thanks for all the fish!” And unless you can do a double 
> 360 back flip while passing through a smallish ring suspended above the pool, 
> I remain unimpressed.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 1, 2021, at 17:53, Neville Smythe via use-livecode 
> >  wrote:
> >
> >
> > > On 1 Sep 2021, at 11:36 pm, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
> > >
> > > i am not sure, if everyone is aware of it, but standalones that were 
> > > created with the Starter Plan license will expire as soon as the Startert 
> > > Plan subscription expires.
> >
> > Not even Apple is that rapacious.
> >
> > I used to have a commercial licence back when I was selling stuff (although 
> > the economics of software never made sense). Since retiring I have been 
> > “freeloading" with the Community edition as a hobbyist, my only LC uses 
> > being for personal use, and maintaining admin and operating software I 
> > wrote for a not-for-profit sporting organisation, and occasionally 
> > contributing bug reports. I can well understand the need for LC to move to 
> > a profitable basis, and I would be happy buy a plan if it made sense for 
> > our use, but there is no way my NFP association can afford US$1000 every 
> > year - or even one year (we would use 3 platforms, and not even the Server 
> > is thrown in with the desktop platforms). And a Starter Kit that means the 
> > app would stop working when I pass on (I have been around since Hypercard 
> > day 1) is an insult. Seems to me the hobbyist use of LC has come to an end. 
> > A great pity, but I guess times move on.
> >
> > I have greatly enjoyed being part of this (mostly) friendly and generous 
> > community for many years.
> >
> > Neville Smythe
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Text encoding.

[David Bovill via use-livecode]

Thanks for the question Alex, I’m wrestling with the same issues - but so far 
got no responses from encoding gurus here :)

This is my understanding:

1) Yes its recommended to textEncode text that comes from outside into 
Livecode’s internal native format (which is utf16).  Livecode handles 
everything internally “transparently” from then on - which I guess means all 
usual language and control operations expect this utf16 internal format. My 
guess is this is why a few things have got slower as compared with early 
versions of Livecode.
2) Without doing textEncode the engine tries to guess the encoding 
(duck-typing?) and does this in a platform specific way? Again exactly what is 
going on there is a bit opaque to me, but the take-home message is that this is 
slower and less robust. So yes -losing nothing (assuming the original file is 
utf8, and yes its the best alternative.

I thing the hard thing to find out is exactly what type of encoding some files 
are - would be great if there was a duck-typing service where we could paste 
text or upload files and it would say - hey this looks like utf8 - but that’s 
asking too much

    Schedule a call with me
On 2 Sep 2021, 12:12 +0100, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> Sorry to drag us off the interesting topic of licensing :-) into some
> Livecode question.
>
> I know little or nothing about Unicode, text encodings, etc. - so my
> question is indeed naive.
>
> I have a text file (War & Peace from Project Gutenberg), about 3.4Mb.
> The Mac describes it simply as "Plain text".
>
> When I read that into a variable, and then do
>     replace tChar by SPACE in tWholeText
> it takes between 1000 and 4000 millisecs - versus the 8-10 msecs I had
> expected from other samples.
>
> If I put in
>     put textEncode(tWHoleText, "UTF8") into tWholeText
> before the replace then it does indeed tae 8-10 msecs.
>
> Q1. What (if anything) am I losing by doing that ?
>
> Q2. Is this the best alternative ?
>
> Additional info - I just discovered that according to 'more' command
> line, the file start with :
>
> The Project 
>
> if that is useful.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Alex.
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Bye, and thanks for the fish

[Keith Martin via use-livecode]

Unless someone’s hoarding gold that’s an interesting but not all that useful 
pricing comparison. I prefer the Big Mac Index 
(https://www.statista.com/statistics/274326/big-mac-index-global-prices-for-a-big-mac/
 
)
 and regular historical inflation/value charts. ;)

However, yes, we do get a lot from LC.

k


> On 2 Sep 2021, at 09:38, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Over on the forum Kevin has been encouraging people to contact support with
> any issues. Some are refusing to do so, making ridiculous demands in
> response.
> 
> Yesterday I had a look at the historical prices to see if LC was
> significantly more expensive than Metacard:
> 2001 - Metacard ($995)  [$288]
> 2005 - Revolution Enterprise (£899) [£243]
> 2021 - Livecode (3x distro platforms £720) [£1316]
> 
> In square brackets behind each is [the price of an ounce of gold] (if
> someone's got a better comparator, they can post it e.g. crude oil, pork
> bellies, cost of an entry level Mac, etc).
> 
> So Metacard cost 3 ounces of gold, Rev Enterprise cost 3.7 oz of gold,
> today's Livecode equivalent costs 0.54 oz of gold.  Even if one adds all 7
> of the distro platforms (3 of which certainly didn't exist in 2005), a full
> Livecode license costs just over 1oz of gold, so between 1/3rd of the price
> of 15 years ago (or as little as 1/6th the price of Metacard). Objectively
> speaking, the customer today gets so much more for so much less.  Apart
> from those who have been used to getting something for free.
> 
> It was only this time last year I stated how amazing it was that Livecode
> manages all the complexity of producing software that runs on so many
> divergent platforms (I was navigating the version compatibilities of Xcode,
> Android Studio, MacOS, iOS, AndroidOS, Windows OS, and Livecode), not to
> mention producing two different versions of Livecode (free and
> commercial).  Something had to give.
> 
> Regards, Bernard
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Text encoding.

[Keith Clarke via use-livecode]

I may be wrong but I thought Mac’s ‘Plain Text’ just meant it’s a ‘text.txt’ 
MIME type file, which could be encoded as ASCII, UTF-8, UTF-16 or UTF-32, 
rather than a 'text.rtf’ rich text MIME type file, with the embedded markup for 
styling, such as bold, italic, etc.

The '’ at the start of the document is the Byte Order Mark, suggesting 
UTF-16 in ‘little-endian’ order - see 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte_order_mark

HTH
Best,
Keith

> On 2 Sep 2021, at 12:12, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sorry to drag us off the interesting topic of licensing :-) into some 
> Livecode question.
> 
> I know little or nothing about Unicode, text encodings, etc. - so my question 
> is indeed naive.
> 
> I have a text file (War & Peace from Project Gutenberg), about 3.4Mb. The Mac 
> describes it simply as "Plain text".
> 
> When I read that into a variable, and then do
> replace tChar by SPACE in tWholeText
> it takes between 1000 and 4000 millisecs - versus the 8-10 msecs I had 
> expected from other samples.
> 
> If I put in
> put textEncode(tWHoleText, "UTF8") into tWholeText
> before the replace then it does indeed tae 8-10 msecs.
> 
> Q1. What (if anything) am I losing by doing that ?
> 
> Q2. Is this the best alternative ?
> 
> Additional info - I just discovered that according to 'more' command line, 
> the file start with :
> 
> The Project 
> 
> if that is useful.
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> Alex.
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Text encoding.

[Alex Tweedly via use-livecode]

Sorry to drag us off the interesting topic of licensing :-) into some 
Livecode question.


I know little or nothing about Unicode, text encodings, etc. - so my 
question is indeed naive.


I have a text file (War & Peace from Project Gutenberg), about 3.4Mb. 
The Mac describes it simply as "Plain text".


When I read that into a variable, and then do
    replace tChar by SPACE in tWholeText
it takes between 1000 and 4000 millisecs - versus the 8-10 msecs I had 
expected from other samples.


If I put in
    put textEncode(tWHoleText, "UTF8") into tWholeText
before the replace then it does indeed tae 8-10 msecs.

Q1. What (if anything) am I losing by doing that ?

Q2. Is this the best alternative ?

Additional info - I just discovered that according to 'more' command 
line, the file start with :


The Project 

if that is useful.

Many thanks,

Alex.


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Bye, and thanks for the fish

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

I meant Bernard of course, apologies.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 11:22, "use-livecode on behalf of Kevin Miller via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Thanks Devin, I do appreciate the words of support. Change is always hard, 
and this particular one was something we were not looking forward to. But it 
had to be done and we will find our way through it.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 10:50, "use-livecode on behalf of Bernard Devlin via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Hi Kevin

I've read your various interactions with people here and on the forum 
and I
think you're handling this superbly  In the last 5 years my house 
insurance
has doubled in price (the house has remained the same size and the
insurance offers no more features). At no point has my insurance company
said "contact us if you can't afford this and we'll work something out".

Regards,

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 10:34 AM Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> What she said. Get in touch and I'm sure we can work something out.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Develop Yourself
>
> On 02/09/2021, 04:36, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> This situation is the kind of thing that Kevin encourages you to
> contact
> support about. He's said he doesn't want to lose anyone.
>
> It's true that open source has made things difficult for the 
company,
> but
> they also value the folks who have stood by them all this time. 
Please
> do
> write to Heather.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On September 1, 2021 7:54:16 PM Neville Smythe via use-livecode
>  wrote:
>
> >> On 1 Sep 2021, at 11:36 pm, 
use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com
> wrote:
> >>
> >> i am not sure, if everyone is aware of it, but standalones that
> were
> >> created with the Starter Plan license will expire as soon as 
the
> Startert
> >> Plan subscription expires.
> >
> > Not even Apple is that rapacious.
> >
> > I used to have a commercial licence back when I was selling 
stuff
> (although
> > the economics of software never made sense). Since retiring I 
have
> been
> > “freeloading" with the Community edition as a hobbyist, my only 
LC
> uses
> > being for personal use, and maintaining admin and operating 
software
> I
> > wrote for a not-for-profit sporting organisation, and 
occasionally
> > contributing bug reports. I can well understand the need for LC 
to
> move to
> > a profitable basis, and I would be happy buy a plan if it made 
sense
> for
> > our use, but there is no way my NFP association can afford 
US$1000
> every
> > year - or even one year (we would use 3 platforms, and not even 
the
> Server
> > is thrown in with the desktop platforms). And a Starter Kit that
> means the
> > app would stop working when I pass on (I have been around since
> Hypercard
> > day 1) is an insult. Seems to me the hobbyist use of LC has 
come to
> an end.
> > A great pity, but I guess times move on.
> >
> > I have greatly enjoyed being part of this (mostly) friendly and
> generous
> > community for many years.
> >
> > Neville Smythe
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
> 

Re: Bye, and thanks for the fish

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Thanks Devin, I do appreciate the words of support. Change is always hard, and 
this particular one was something we were not looking forward to. But it had to 
be done and we will find our way through it.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 10:50, "use-livecode on behalf of Bernard Devlin via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Hi Kevin

I've read your various interactions with people here and on the forum and I
think you're handling this superbly  In the last 5 years my house insurance
has doubled in price (the house has remained the same size and the
insurance offers no more features). At no point has my insurance company
said "contact us if you can't afford this and we'll work something out".

Regards,

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 10:34 AM Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> What she said. Get in touch and I'm sure we can work something out.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Develop Yourself
>
> On 02/09/2021, 04:36, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> This situation is the kind of thing that Kevin encourages you to
> contact
> support about. He's said he doesn't want to lose anyone.
>
> It's true that open source has made things difficult for the company,
> but
> they also value the folks who have stood by them all this time. Please
> do
> write to Heather.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On September 1, 2021 7:54:16 PM Neville Smythe via use-livecode
>  wrote:
>
> >> On 1 Sep 2021, at 11:36 pm, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com
> wrote:
> >>
> >> i am not sure, if everyone is aware of it, but standalones that
> were
> >> created with the Starter Plan license will expire as soon as the
> Startert
> >> Plan subscription expires.
> >
> > Not even Apple is that rapacious.
> >
> > I used to have a commercial licence back when I was selling stuff
> (although
> > the economics of software never made sense). Since retiring I have
> been
> > “freeloading" with the Community edition as a hobbyist, my only LC
> uses
> > being for personal use, and maintaining admin and operating software
> I
> > wrote for a not-for-profit sporting organisation, and occasionally
> > contributing bug reports. I can well understand the need for LC to
> move to
> > a profitable basis, and I would be happy buy a plan if it made sense
> for
> > our use, but there is no way my NFP association can afford US$1000
> every
> > year - or even one year (we would use 3 platforms, and not even the
> Server
> > is thrown in with the desktop platforms). And a Starter Kit that
> means the
> > app would stop working when I pass on (I have been around since
> Hypercard
> > day 1) is an insult. Seems to me the hobbyist use of LC has come to
> an end.
> > A great pity, but I guess times move on.
> >
> > I have greatly enjoyed being part of this (mostly) friendly and
> generous
> > community for many years.
> >
> > Neville Smythe
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url 

Re: Bye, and thanks for the fish

[Bernard Devlin via use-livecode]

Hi Kevin

I've read your various interactions with people here and on the forum and I
think you're handling this superbly  In the last 5 years my house insurance
has doubled in price (the house has remained the same size and the
insurance offers no more features). At no point has my insurance company
said "contact us if you can't afford this and we'll work something out".

Regards,

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 10:34 AM Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> What she said. Get in touch and I'm sure we can work something out.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Develop Yourself
>
> On 02/09/2021, 04:36, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> This situation is the kind of thing that Kevin encourages you to
> contact
> support about. He's said he doesn't want to lose anyone.
>
> It's true that open source has made things difficult for the company,
> but
> they also value the folks who have stood by them all this time. Please
> do
> write to Heather.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On September 1, 2021 7:54:16 PM Neville Smythe via use-livecode
>  wrote:
>
> >> On 1 Sep 2021, at 11:36 pm, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com
> wrote:
> >>
> >> i am not sure, if everyone is aware of it, but standalones that
> were
> >> created with the Starter Plan license will expire as soon as the
> Startert
> >> Plan subscription expires.
> >
> > Not even Apple is that rapacious.
> >
> > I used to have a commercial licence back when I was selling stuff
> (although
> > the economics of software never made sense). Since retiring I have
> been
> > “freeloading" with the Community edition as a hobbyist, my only LC
> uses
> > being for personal use, and maintaining admin and operating software
> I
> > wrote for a not-for-profit sporting organisation, and occasionally
> > contributing bug reports. I can well understand the need for LC to
> move to
> > a profitable basis, and I would be happy buy a plan if it made sense
> for
> > our use, but there is no way my NFP association can afford US$1000
> every
> > year - or even one year (we would use 3 platforms, and not even the
> Server
> > is thrown in with the desktop platforms). And a Starter Kit that
> means the
> > app would stop working when I pass on (I have been around since
> Hypercard
> > day 1) is an insult. Seems to me the hobbyist use of LC has come to
> an end.
> > A great pity, but I guess times move on.
> >
> > I have greatly enjoyed being part of this (mostly) friendly and
> generous
> > community for many years.
> >
> > Neville Smythe
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Bye, and thanks for the fish

[Heather Laine via use-livecode]

I'd just like to reiterate that, please get in touch on supp...@livecode.com if 
you have questions about your license or need help or don't think you can 
afford the new pricing. Please also bear in mind that we are *exceptionally 
busy* and while I will definitely get back to everybody, as fast as I can, it 
may take me a bit longer than usual. Your patience is appreciated. If you have 
emailed support once, and not heard back yet, please don't email again... it 
will only slow things down further :)

Warmest Regards to all,

Heather

PS and thank you for the messages of support, those are much appreciated too.

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 2 Sep 2021, at 10:33, Kevin Miller via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> What she said. Get in touch and I'm sure we can work something out.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Kevin
> 
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Develop Yourself
> 
> On 02/09/2021, 04:36, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via 
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>This situation is the kind of thing that Kevin encourages you to contact 
>support about. He's said he doesn't want to lose anyone.
> 
>It's true that open source has made things difficult for the company, but 
>they also value the folks who have stood by them all this time. Please do 
>write to Heather.
> 
>--
>Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>On September 1, 2021 7:54:16 PM Neville Smythe via use-livecode 
> wrote:
> 
>>> On 1 Sep 2021, at 11:36 pm, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> i am not sure, if everyone is aware of it, but standalones that were 
>>> created with the Starter Plan license will expire as soon as the Startert 
>>> Plan subscription expires.
>> 
>> Not even Apple is that rapacious.
>> 
>> I used to have a commercial licence back when I was selling stuff (although 
>> the economics of software never made sense). Since retiring I have been 
>> “freeloading" with the Community edition as a hobbyist, my only LC uses 
>> being for personal use, and maintaining admin and operating software I 
>> wrote for a not-for-profit sporting organisation, and occasionally 
>> contributing bug reports. I can well understand the need for LC to move to 
>> a profitable basis, and I would be happy buy a plan if it made sense for 
>> our use, but there is no way my NFP association can afford US$1000 every 
>> year - or even one year (we would use 3 platforms, and not even the Server 
>> is thrown in with the desktop platforms). And a Starter Kit that means the 
>> app would stop working when I pass on (I have been around since Hypercard 
>> day 1) is an insult. Seems to me the hobbyist use of LC has come to an end. 
>> A great pity, but I guess times move on.
>> 
>> I have greatly enjoyed being part of this (mostly) friendly and generous 
>> community for many years.
>> 
>> Neville Smythe
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
>___
>use-livecode mailing list
>use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Bye, and thanks for the fish

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

What she said. Get in touch and I'm sure we can work something out.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 04:36, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

This situation is the kind of thing that Kevin encourages you to contact 
support about. He's said he doesn't want to lose anyone.

It's true that open source has made things difficult for the company, but 
they also value the folks who have stood by them all this time. Please do 
write to Heather.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On September 1, 2021 7:54:16 PM Neville Smythe via use-livecode 
 wrote:

>> On 1 Sep 2021, at 11:36 pm, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
>>
>> i am not sure, if everyone is aware of it, but standalones that were 
>> created with the Starter Plan license will expire as soon as the 
Startert 
>> Plan subscription expires.
>
> Not even Apple is that rapacious.
>
> I used to have a commercial licence back when I was selling stuff 
(although 
> the economics of software never made sense). Since retiring I have been 
> “freeloading" with the Community edition as a hobbyist, my only LC uses 
> being for personal use, and maintaining admin and operating software I 
> wrote for a not-for-profit sporting organisation, and occasionally 
> contributing bug reports. I can well understand the need for LC to move 
to 
> a profitable basis, and I would be happy buy a plan if it made sense for 
> our use, but there is no way my NFP association can afford US$1000 every 
> year - or even one year (we would use 3 platforms, and not even the 
Server 
> is thrown in with the desktop platforms). And a Starter Kit that means 
the 
> app would stop working when I pass on (I have been around since Hypercard 
> day 1) is an insult. Seems to me the hobbyist use of LC has come to an 
end. 
> A great pity, but I guess times move on.
>
> I have greatly enjoyed being part of this (mostly) friendly and generous 
> community for many years.
>
> Neville Smythe
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Bye, and thanks for the fish

[Pi Digital via use-livecode]

You will still be able to use the current Community Edition. It just won’t get 
updated any further or receive support from LCLtd. 

You are welcome for the fish. 

Sean Cole
Pi Digital Productions Ltd

eMail Ts & Cs


> On 2 Sep 2021, at 09:38, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Over on the forum Kevin has been encouraging people to contact support with
> any issues. Some are refusing to do so, making ridiculous demands in
> response.
> 
> Yesterday I had a look at the historical prices to see if LC was
> significantly more expensive than Metacard:
> 2001 - Metacard ($995)  [$288]
> 2005 - Revolution Enterprise (£899) [£243]
> 2021 - Livecode (3x distro platforms £720) [£1316]
> 
> In square brackets behind each is [the price of an ounce of gold] (if
> someone's got a better comparator, they can post it e.g. crude oil, pork
> bellies, cost of an entry level Mac, etc).
> 
> So Metacard cost 3 ounces of gold, Rev Enterprise cost 3.7 oz of gold,
> today's Livecode equivalent costs 0.54 oz of gold.  Even if one adds all 7
> of the distro platforms (3 of which certainly didn't exist in 2005), a full
> Livecode license costs just over 1oz of gold, so between 1/3rd of the price
> of 15 years ago (or as little as 1/6th the price of Metacard). Objectively
> speaking, the customer today gets so much more for so much less.  Apart
> from those who have been used to getting something for free.
> 
> It was only this time last year I stated how amazing it was that Livecode
> manages all the complexity of producing software that runs on so many
> divergent platforms (I was navigating the version compatibilities of Xcode,
> Android Studio, MacOS, iOS, AndroidOS, Windows OS, and Livecode), not to
> mention producing two different versions of Livecode (free and
> commercial).  Something had to give.
> 
> Regards, Bernard
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Bye, and thanks for the fish

[Bernard Devlin via use-livecode]

Over on the forum Kevin has been encouraging people to contact support with
any issues. Some are refusing to do so, making ridiculous demands in
response.

Yesterday I had a look at the historical prices to see if LC was
significantly more expensive than Metacard:
2001 - Metacard ($995)  [$288]
2005 - Revolution Enterprise (£899) [£243]
2021 - Livecode (3x distro platforms £720) [£1316]

In square brackets behind each is [the price of an ounce of gold] (if
someone's got a better comparator, they can post it e.g. crude oil, pork
bellies, cost of an entry level Mac, etc).

So Metacard cost 3 ounces of gold, Rev Enterprise cost 3.7 oz of gold,
today's Livecode equivalent costs 0.54 oz of gold.  Even if one adds all 7
of the distro platforms (3 of which certainly didn't exist in 2005), a full
Livecode license costs just over 1oz of gold, so between 1/3rd of the price
of 15 years ago (or as little as 1/6th the price of Metacard). Objectively
speaking, the customer today gets so much more for so much less.  Apart
from those who have been used to getting something for free.

It was only this time last year I stated how amazing it was that Livecode
manages all the complexity of producing software that runs on so many
divergent platforms (I was navigating the version compatibilities of Xcode,
Android Studio, MacOS, iOS, AndroidOS, Windows OS, and Livecode), not to
mention producing two different versions of Livecode (free and
commercial).  Something had to give.

Regards, Bernard
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode