subject:"Crashing Ubuntu 11.10 with LC 4.5"

Re: Crashing Ubuntu 11.10 with LC 4.5

2011-12-28 Thread Richard Gaskin


David C. wrote:


On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Richard Gaskin
ambassador at fourthworld.com wrote:


In terms of design, it's almost as big a departure from earlier versions as
OS X is from Mac OS 9.  And as with my Mac experience, the transition was a
bit jarring at first, and I initially complained about not being as
productive.  But with both OS X and Unity, the more time I spend with the
new system the more I like it.


Richard,
How would you rate your experience/satisfaction level so far, as it
applies to actual LC development using Unity?


Pretty much as with any other distro I've worked with:  under-the-hood 
operations (string manipulation, calculations) perform on par with other 
platforms, but some aspects of text rendering are noticeably slower.


And of course there's the lack of feature parity with other platforms 
RunRev supports, like missing externals, video playback as weak as on 
Windows, weak drag-and-drop support, and a few others.


These weaknesses in the Linux engine are especially ironic since 
MetaCard was born on Unix and historically maintained good parity as new 
platforms were added, and moreover the Linux engine costs twice as much 
as other platforms while delivering less. :\


That said, overall few of these affect my work (except video playback, 
which also also hinders opportunities for my Windows apps), so for most 
projects I'm able to do what I need to do on whatever platform I happen 
to be using that day.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv

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[OT] Re: Crashing Ubuntu 11.10 with LC 4.5

2011-12-27 Thread Richmond

On 12/27/2011 01:45 PM, Bernard Devlin wrote:

I was so appalled by the latest Ubuntu, I switched to Mint. Ubuntu
had become as slow as using Windows Vista. No wonder Mint has taken
off. Whilst the main charts in the link below are based on
DistroWatch (arguably a sign of what cutting-edge linux users are up
to), the chart further down the page showing Google search data
indicates that the claim that Ubuntu is losing out to Mint has some
basis.

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/11/23/ubuntu-linux-losing-popularity-fast-new-unity-interface-to-blame/

My negative experience with Ubuntu last month was what drove me to
look at Mint, which I'd vaguely heard of over the past few years.

Bernard

Well, I'm just about to hop on the plane for my annual visit to Britain
(which will include
dephlogisticating my parents' laptop, which was running Ubuntu 10.10,
which has gone
very sour since my Father couldn't resist clicking on distro-upgrade
and getting
b*ggered by Unity. I am, right now, wondering whether I should reinstall
Ubuntu 10.10 and

lock-down the upgrade option, or go for Mint 12 with MATE

The whole MATE thing has come about because the powers that be in the
Debian world have
mucked around with the repositories in such a way that one cannot, say,
install Ubuntu 11.10 and then GNOME 2 using apt-get. Since the Linux
people go on, and on, and on, tiresomely about choice this

is a crock of sh*t.

As I seem to be unable to get Mint 12 to behave itself in Virtual Box I
am a bit nervous about
spending donkey's ages on a real laptop only to find out that I have
ended up with a 'pup'.

Of course, the other option, is just to install XFCE on my parents'
existing setup; although that

sounds like a fudge.

Here in Bulgaria, I am living with Ubuntu 11.10 just at the moment,
having got things reasonably the
way I want things with Avant Window Manager; however Compiz keeps dying
on me, Nautilus has
periodic 'headaches', and the whole thing is most definitely not
what-it-should-be. And, as you will see from the Use-List yesterday, I
managed to get the GUI to lock-up completely with LC 4.5 . . . which

made me hopping mad.

I only wish I knew a way to get that flaming launcher thing to go away
for ever, as it keeps popping up like a bad penny, over on the left,
whenever I have to enter a password, with annoying frequency, and to no
obvious purpose.

I have been a big, big fan of Avant Window Manager since I started
seriously transitioning from Mac to Linux, and the Dock-like setup of
AWN really makes me feel right at home; especially, as it has a Start
Menu option that replaces that that was present in GNOME 2 and has been
chucked away with Unity and GNOME 3.

I am unaware of my machine running noticeably more slowly than when I
had SalineOS on it:

Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz, RAM 2.0 GB

But I have never been unduly bothered about shaving seconds off here and
there, or not having time for the odd gulp of coffee . . . :)

I may be a naughty boy and use M D's laptop as a guinea-pig, and
install Mint 12 with MATE to
see what it's like; if I like it I'll install it here when I come back,
and if M D like it, that's groovy; failing that they'll get Ubuntu
10.10 with all upgrades disabled.

What GNOME 3 plus Mono-Sodium-GlutaMATE will look like is anybody's
guess; and as to functionality;

hmm

On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 8:38 PM, Peter Alcibiades
palcibiades-fi...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

Stay with Ubuntu for now, but install fluxbox and see if it still happens.
At least you'll know if its Ubuntu or Gnome3.

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Re: Crashing Ubuntu 11.10 with LC 4.5

2011-12-27 Thread Bernard Devlin

I was so appalled by the latest Ubuntu, I switched to Mint.  Ubuntu
had become as slow as using Windows Vista.  No wonder Mint has taken
off.  Whilst the main charts in the link below are based on
DistroWatch (arguably a sign of what cutting-edge linux users are up
to), the chart further down the page showing Google search data
indicates that the claim that Ubuntu is losing out to Mint has some
basis.

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/11/23/ubuntu-linux-losing-popularity-fast-new-unity-interface-to-blame/

My negative experience with Ubuntu last month was what drove me to
look at Mint, which I'd vaguely heard of over the past few years.

Bernard

On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 8:38 PM, Peter Alcibiades
palcibiades-fi...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
 Stay with Ubuntu for now, but install fluxbox and see if it still happens.
 At least you'll know if its Ubuntu or Gnome3.

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Re: Crashing Ubuntu 11.10 with LC 4.5

2011-12-27 Thread Richard Gaskin

Bernard Devlin wrote:

I was so appalled by the latest Ubuntu, I switched to Mint. Ubuntu
had become as slow as using Windows Vista.

Is that with 11.10 or 11.04?

When I first tried 11.04 it was slow, and I wound up staying with 10.10
until 11.10 came out. But since I upgraded to 11.10 last month, on my
Core2 Duo laptop it runs very well.

In terms of design, it's almost as big a departure from earlier versions
as OS X is from Mac OS 9. And as with my Mac experience, the transition
was a bit jarring at first, and I initially complained about not being
as productive. But with both OS X and Unity, the more time I spend with
the new system the more I like it.

It seems a matter of taste, though. I know more than a few Mac users
who still prefer the design of OS 9, and it seems there are quite a few
Ubuntu users who prefer 10 over 11.

But unlike the Mac world, at least us Linux users can choose which
environment we want to work in. :)

No wonder Mint has taken off. Whilst the main charts in the link below
are based on DistroWatch (arguably a sign of what cutting-edge linux
users are up to), the chart further down the page showing Google search
data indicates that the claim that Ubuntu is losing out to Mint has some
basis.

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/11/23/ubuntu-linux-losing-popularity-fast-new-unity-interface-to-blame/

Respectfully, DistroWatch stats aren't a good measure of general
interest, for the reasons I detailed in this post in the Ubuntu forum:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11480329#post11480329

In that post I also include Alexa site rankings, which show many times
more interest in Ubuntu than Mint, similar to the Google stats in the
article you linked to which also shows Ubuntu ranking much higher than Mint.

Mint's a great system, but in terms of overall popularity the factor
that affects the Linux world the most is that the average person doesn't
think of operating systems as something they can choose, but simply uses
whatever came with their computer.

In 2011 the number of OEMs shipping computers with Ubuntu preinstalled
continued to grow. In addition to Dell, Asus, and others, there are
Linux-exclusive vendors like System 76 which offer only Ubuntu. Even
ZaReason, which offers Mint and others as options, has Ubuntu as their
default choice. My friend Aviv who runs LinuCity here in SoCal offers a
few systems with Mint preinstalled, but most of his line is Ubuntu.

Being Ubuntu-based, Mint provides a great option for those who want most
of what Ubuntu offers but with the more traditional UI.

But the Gnome Project killed Gnome 2 for a reason, and sooner or later
we can expect most distros to be using either Gnome 3/Shell or a variant
like Unity.

This transition from a Windows-like task bar to a Mac-like dock isn't
perfect in either the Gnome Shell or Unity implementations, but I feel
such evolution is inevitable for the continued growth of the platform.

And best of all, it's Linux: we have plenty of choices to use any
distro, desktop environment, and tweaks we want to get exactly what we
most prefer.

I used to lament the number of distros out there, but the more I spend
time with the Linux community the more I've come to appreciate the
strengths of such diversity.

PS: If anyone here is going to SCaLE 10x next month let's meet up there
- I'll be there all three days:

http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale10x

--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World
LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv

Re: Crashing Ubuntu 11.10 with LC 4.5

2011-12-27 Thread Richmond

On 12/27/2011 10:35 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Bernard Devlin wrote:

I was so appalled by the latest Ubuntu, I switched to Mint. Ubuntu
had become as slow as using Windows Vista.

Is that with 11.10 or 11.04?

When I first tried 11.04 it was slow, and I wound up staying with
10.10 until 11.10 came out. But since I upgraded to 11.10 last month,
on my Core2 Duo laptop it runs very well.

In terms of design, it's almost as big a departure from earlier
versions as OS X is from Mac OS 9. And as with my Mac experience, the
transition was a bit jarring at first, and I initially complained
about not being as productive. But with both OS X and Unity, the more
time I spend with the new system the more I like it.

It seems a matter of taste, though. I know more than a few Mac users
who still prefer the design of OS 9, and it seems there are quite a
few Ubuntu users who prefer 10 over 11.

But unlike the Mac world, at least us Linux users can choose which
environment we want to work in. :)

http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/11/23/ubuntu-linux-losing-popularity-fast-new-unity-interface-to-blame/

Respectfully, DistroWatch stats aren't a good measure of general
interest, for the reasons I detailed in this post in the Ubuntu forum:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11480329#post11480329

Mint's a great system, but in terms of overall popularity the factor
that affects the Linux world the most is that the average person
doesn't think of operating systems as something they can choose, but
simply uses whatever came with their computer.

In 2011 the number of OEMs shipping computers with Ubuntu preinstalled
continued to grow. In addition to Dell, Asus, and others, there are
Linux-exclusive vendors like System 76 which offer only Ubuntu. Even
ZaReason, which offers Mint and others as options, has Ubuntu as their
default choice. My friend Aviv who runs LinuCity here in SoCal offers
a few systems with Mint preinstalled, but most of his line is Ubuntu.

Being Ubuntu-based, Mint provides a great option for those who want
most of what Ubuntu offers but with the more traditional UI.

But the Gnome Project killed Gnome 2 for a reason,

And what, pray tell, was that; that it was popular? and Linux people
like putting their feet in their mouth - I wonder.

and sooner or later we can expect most distros to be using either
Gnome 3/Shell or a variant like Unity.

And best of all, it's Linux: we have plenty of choices to use any
distro, desktop environment, and tweaks we want to get exactly what we
most prefer.

I used to lament the number of distros out there, but the more I spend
time with the Linux community the more I've come to appreciate the
strengths of such diversity.

PS: If anyone here is going to SCaLE 10x next month let's meet up
there - I'll be there all three days:

http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale10x

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Re: [OT] Re: Crashing Ubuntu 11.10 with LC 4.5

2011-12-27 Thread Roger Eller

On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 7:26 AM, Richmond wrote:

 Well, I'm just about to hop on the plane for my annual visit to Britain
 (which will include
 dephlogisticating my parents' laptop, which was running Ubuntu 10.10,
 which has gone
 very sour since my Father couldn't resist clicking on distro-upgrade and
 getting
 b*ggered by Unity. I am, right now, wondering whether I should reinstall
 Ubuntu 10.10 and
 lock-down the upgrade option, or go for Mint 12 with MATE


I'm playing around with a 10.10 variant that you may enjoy.  It is
pre-themed to be all Mac-like.  The Live CD is in Spanish, but as always,
you can choose any language when you install.  If nothing else, it looks
cool.  Another variant of this is elementaryOS (designed for simplicity).

http://darwinosx.blogspot.com/p/descarga-darwin-os.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsUJJlroz_k

˜Roger
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Re: Crashing Ubuntu 11.10 with LC 4.5

2011-12-27 Thread David C.

On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Richard Gaskin
ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote:

 In terms of design, it's almost as big a departure from earlier versions as
 OS X is from Mac OS 9.  And as with my Mac experience, the transition was a
 bit jarring at first, and I initially complained about not being as
 productive.  But with both OS X and Unity, the more time I spend with the
 new system the more I like it.

Richard,
How would you rate your experience/satisfaction level so far, as it
applies to actual LC development using Unity?

I have to admit that I've tried Unity 2-3 times now going back to the
original RC from Ubuntu and so far I just don't much care for it...
although I'm downloading the latest to take for a test spin as I type
this. I've been a fan of Mint for several years now, but already
seriously question how well the Mate scenario will work out.

I'm still trying to convince myself that at the age of 55 years, I've
not already gotten so old that I cannot easily adapt to newer
technology, whatever that may be. Unfortunately, Unity has just about
caused me to throw in the towel with Gnome.

Best regards,
David C.

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Crashing Ubuntu 11.10 with LC 4.5

2011-12-26 Thread Richmond


I suppose I had better start with a confession:

Having been in dependency hell for about 2 months I have installed 
UBUNTU 11.10 on my main machine
and am running Unity 2D on it. If one uses Avant Window Navigator one 
can very nearly avoid all the
bumf that comes along with Unity. Still fairly cheesed-off with Unity, 
GNOME 3 and the fact that there has been no consideration for those who 
like GNOME 2 (after all, why not just keep it in the repositiories as an 
option?).


Now, re my last post about keeping LC windows on-screen:

having posted the script that I made first of all, I decided that 
putting the stack slap-bang, dead-centre
everytime it strayed slightly off-screen was pretty awful, so I changed 
the code to this:


on moveStack
   put the short name of this stack into THSTK
if the left of stack THSTK  (item 1 of the screenRect) then
  set the left of stack THSTK to (item 1 of the screenRect)
   end if

snip

end moveStack

and when I dragged my stack it froze the Ubuntu 11.10 interface 
completely, disabled the mouse
and so forth; the only way out of this was either to jump on the button 
on the front of the computer
or yank the power cable out from the back: neither what one might choose 
in an ideal situation.


I don't have a desperate urge to try this out on either my PPC macMini 
or the Windows XP running in a Virtual Box setup; however, I do wonder 
whether the same sort of thing would happen.


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Re: Crashing Ubuntu 11.10 with LC 4.5

2011-12-26 Thread Mark Wieder

Richmond-

Monday, December 26, 2011, 9:49:39 AM, you wrote:

 Still fairly cheesed-off with Unity, GNOME 3 and the fact that there
 has been no consideration for those who like GNOME 2 (after all, why
 not just keep it in the repositiories as an option?).

I spent about two weeks with Gnome 3 on my system, then gave up. I
backed everything up and installed the Fedora Core 16 xfce spin and
have been pretty happy with it since. You *do* have your root and home
partitions separate, right?

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net


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Re: Crashing Ubuntu 11.10 with LC 4.5

2011-12-26 Thread Richmond


On 12/26/2011 09:35 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

Richmond-

Monday, December 26, 2011, 9:49:39 AM, you wrote:


Still fairly cheesed-off with Unity, GNOME 3 and the fact that there
has been no consideration for those who like GNOME 2 (after all, why
not just keep it in the repositiories as an option?).

I spent about two weeks with Gnome 3 on my system, then gave up. I
backed everything up and installed the Fedora Core 16 xfce spin and
have been pretty happy with it since. You *do* have your root and home
partitions separate, right?


Yup.






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Re: Crashing Ubuntu 11.10 with LC 4.5

2011-12-26 Thread Andre Garzia

On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 5:35 PM, Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net wrote:

 You *do* have your root and home
 partitions separate, right?


I don't but I have OCD level rsync between the machines... I really
should place home in another partition, the only time I do this is with
freebsd.



-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code.
http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service.
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Re: Crashing Ubuntu 11.10 with LC 4.5

2011-12-26 Thread Peter Alcibiades

Stay with Ubuntu for now, but install fluxbox and see if it still happens. 
At least you'll know if its Ubuntu or Gnome3.

Once you have got used to Fluxbox, its astonishing how little use you have
for a window manager, desktop, all that bloat.  I preferr flux to openbox
mainly because the virtual desktop function is easier and quicker, but
either one is quick and minimal and stable and keeps out of the way. I agree
with Mark about Xfce, its the closest thing to Gnome2.  Thunar is a very
nice, very simple file manager.  xfe is also quite nice.

Gnome seems to have totally lost its way.  Funnily enough KDE in the latest
incarnation seems to be getting back to KDE 3.5, and that was quite the
equal of Gnome2   The more things change

--
View this message in context: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Crashing-Ubuntu-11-10-with-LC-4-5-tp4235217p4235548.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: Crashing Ubuntu 11.10 with LC 4.5

[OT] Re: Crashing Ubuntu 11.10 with LC 4.5

Re: Crashing Ubuntu 11.10 with LC 4.5

Re: Crashing Ubuntu 11.10 with LC 4.5

Re: Crashing Ubuntu 11.10 with LC 4.5

Re: [OT] Re: Crashing Ubuntu 11.10 with LC 4.5

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Crashing Ubuntu 11.10 with LC 4.5

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