Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

THIS has to be one of the bugs we address ASAP.
Thanks Curry for doing the leg work on this one.
I hope the team is paying attention to this one.
This is one of the things that a new user has no hope of being aware of.

Thanks,

Tom
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Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Bernard Devlin via use-livecode]

I was having problems with SE on Windows randomly causing crashes just by
clicking in the text are of SE.

When I switched off all the bling, I never had another crash like that. I
plan to slowly re-introduce the bling to see if I can identify which part
causes the crashes.

Regards, Bernard
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Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Resurrecting this thread from September because ...
now I've had a chance to go through my old bug reports,
and found the one for this Script Editor slowdown!
(It said "Pending Followup" so I just followed up on it.)

For the people here that still see bad IDE/SE performance
(and there were several: Lagi, Bob, Bernard, Andre, etc)
you can benefit from adding your CC to this bug report
and post your symptoms/setup there to help LC fix this.

Plus, I posted 7 steps that worked for myself and others;
many people have resolved this for their own computers!

BTW, I have NOT had this problem myself for 1 or 2 years;
so those steps are tried and true. (They work in MOST cases.)

Here's the bug report:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21604

No slowdowns on my end anymore; Windows "just works." :)
I could have simply closed the bug, but I followed up
and posted those 7 steps to help the rest of you.

Most importantly, it's NOT just a Windows issue.
(We have to avoid myths, or we can't solve problems.)
I've seen it twice on Mac myself, and others have too.
But it is MUCH more common on Windows. Rare on Mac.
Mostly due to antivirus trends, but other factors.

For the LC team, I'm not sure whether they ever
reproduced this bug or not, so I posted some tips
on maxing out disk and memory to help notice problems.

(That doesn't mean people with the IDE problems
are running a bunch of videos and downloads;
just getting closer to real-life use conditions
versus a more pristine test environment.)

Hopefully someone still having the issues
will follow up there to help get it fixed.

I don't anymore, so I'm moving on to other bugs!

One thing I forgot to mention is that LC Setup
is badly behaved on all platforms, and I've seen
literally a dozen copies of it in Task Manager;
that can also bog things down too!

I have a zero-tolerance policy for .Setup;
it is not allowed to run on my computer
except during the initial installation.

And like I say, no IDE slowdowns for 1-2 years.

(Not to be confused with IDE crashes
and bugs that completely "hang" the engine!
I'm still a combatant on those bugs.) :)

Original thread:



Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
Christian LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Lagi:

> My Laptop is SSD and still the problems.
> I have the problems with or without defender on.
> I don't use third party antivirus anymore

That's 2 out of 4 common steps!
Have you disabled the SE "bling" options?

Bling is slang for flashy expensive trinkets,
such as Live Errors and Auto Complete.

(I used to disable Colorization,
but it works fine with SSD.)

BTW, it's not necessary to go without antivirus.
The problem is certain newer intensive options
you can adjust in the antivirus settings.

I don't want people to read this thread
and disable antivirus entirely; be safe!

None of this is new; I listed 6 known factors
and one more would be too much code;
LC 7+ has performance issues that have been
noted for years and are still being fixed.

(I favor shorter code, and it has many perks.
This is just one of them.)

The IDE is not a high-performance design either.
Looks like one underlying issue may improve soon!
Others can be fixed readily if the LC Team
spends more time "hands on" using IDE on Windows.
Then the more rare and exotic bugs will trigger.

Yet another LC problem on Windows is that each launch
of each version of LC may launch a new Setup process
that hangs in memory. Over time, you can end up
with a dozen or more in memory eating up resources.
Check your Task Manager and thin the crowd.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: AW: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Bernard Devlin via use-livecode]

Hi Lagi

I just went back and repeated my steps from a couple of days ago.

New start for IDE, new stack, pasted in the same 8,000 lines as a comment.
And this time there was no slow down. So it does look like any such
problems are less predictable than my initial test suggested. I toggled on
then off all the options in the Script Editor related to autocomplete, etc.
And no matter what state they were in made no difference.  In the light of
this unreproduceability - how can LC be expected to identify/fix this
problem?   It may not even be within their control and certainly they can't
start to spend resources investigating it if the professional programmers
using LC on Win10 can't identify a predicable pattern.

I took my 8,000 lines of text and re-started the IDE multiple times. And
then I added 50% more to the comment. It does seem that the longer the
script is the more likely that your treacle problem is going to appear.
Perhaps if you tried this you could come up with a more definite pattern
and if so, then LC could look at why it is that a 8000, 12000, 18000 line
script causes a slow down.  With 12,000 lines even switching off all the
Edit/Options made no improvement: adding a return to a line took 3 seconds
for the screen to update.

What happens if you have a 24,000 line script? Do you get a predictable
pattern? Is it always slow?  Once you get a predictable recipe then LC Ltd
have something they can work on. Personally I'd find a 12,000 line script
really hard to navigate. But until LC Ltd specify that there's a length to
how long a script can be, there's no reason why you shouldn't have 12,000
line scripts.

Yesterday my Win10 laptop totally froze. I had open only two programmes: MS
OneNote and Chrome.  Even ctrl-alt-delete did nothing. I couldn't even
bring up task manager to see what could possibly be using all the
resources. After minutes of waiting for it to respond, I went to remove
battery and power cable (normal power button is set to hibernate not power
off), and suddenly it started to respond again. When I worked in tech
support I was the star problem solver. And now I've over 20 years more
experience with computing, but these days Windows 10 leaves me scratching
my head. MS have done some great things (WSL is one of them).

In my experience the weird behaviour I experience with Win10 is much, much
rarer on a Mac (I can't remember an incident in 20 years of using a variety
of Macs). On a different Win10 machine I have a well-know SQL editor.
Whenever it asks if I want to apply an update to it and I click "no", it
crashes. It's never been updated since I installed it. But this behaviour
only started a few months ago. To me that's really weird. When something
works I don't upgrade because it works as is.

Regards, Bernard

On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 11:59 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Bernard,
>
>
> I didn't make myself clear - it can work for hours with no slowdown at
> 13,000 lines on an older computer there is just no pattern.
>
> Lagi
>
> On Wed, 8 Sept 2021 at 18:54, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > I pasted 8000 lines of text into Script Editor on Windows (just 1 large
> > block comment).  On typing chars take a couple of seconds to appear once
> > there is that much text.  Cut it down to 800 lines and it's fine.
> >
> > With 8000 lines switch off "live errors" and the slow typing issue is
> gone.
> >
> > I've asked Erik to try with 8000 line comment on his 32GB rig, since he
> has
> > no problems. He might have to increase the size of the text in that field
> > to 12000 or 16000, but I suspect eventually he too will get your treacle.
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 4:52 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > When it works it works - I cut the main stack to 7000 lines and still
> get
> > > the slowdown.
> > >
> > > When it slows down its the same treacle/quicksand/molasses whether the
> > > machine is a 10th gen with 16g or an 8gig pentium - when its fast its
> > fast
> > > on both - no consistency
> > >
> > > Lagi
> > >
> > >
> > ___
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>
>
> --
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Re: AW: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Lagi Pittas via use-livecode]

Hi Bernard,


I didn't make myself clear - it can work for hours with no slowdown at
13,000 lines on an older computer there is just no pattern.

Lagi

On Wed, 8 Sept 2021 at 18:54, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I pasted 8000 lines of text into Script Editor on Windows (just 1 large
> block comment).  On typing chars take a couple of seconds to appear once
> there is that much text.  Cut it down to 800 lines and it's fine.
>
> With 8000 lines switch off "live errors" and the slow typing issue is gone.
>
> I've asked Erik to try with 8000 line comment on his 32GB rig, since he has
> no problems. He might have to increase the size of the text in that field
> to 12000 or 16000, but I suspect eventually he too will get your treacle.
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 4:52 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > When it works it works - I cut the main stack to 7000 lines and still get
> > the slowdown.
> >
> > When it slows down its the same treacle/quicksand/molasses whether the
> > machine is a 10th gen with 16g or an 8gig pentium - when its fast its
> fast
> > on both - no consistency
> >
> > Lagi
> >
> >
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KIndest Regards Lagi
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Re: AW: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Ali Lloyd via use-livecode]

One thing to check is whether you are using a fixed width font, and if not
whether you have the same performance issue with the SE when using one.

On Wed, 8 Sep 2021, 18:52 Bernard Devlin via use-livecode, <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I pasted 8000 lines of text into Script Editor on Windows (just 1 large
> block comment).  On typing chars take a couple of seconds to appear once
> there is that much text.  Cut it down to 800 lines and it's fine.
>
> With 8000 lines switch off "live errors" and the slow typing issue is gone.
>
> I've asked Erik to try with 8000 line comment on his 32GB rig, since he has
> no problems. He might have to increase the size of the text in that field
> to 12000 or 16000, but I suspect eventually he too will get your treacle.
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 4:52 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > When it works it works - I cut the main stack to 7000 lines and still get
> > the slowdown.
> >
> > When it slows down its the same treacle/quicksand/molasses whether the
> > machine is a 10th gen with 16g or an 8gig pentium - when its fast its
> fast
> > on both - no consistency
> >
> > Lagi
> >
> >
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Re: AW: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Bernard Devlin via use-livecode]

I pasted 8000 lines of text into Script Editor on Windows (just 1 large
block comment).  On typing chars take a couple of seconds to appear once
there is that much text.  Cut it down to 800 lines and it's fine.

With 8000 lines switch off "live errors" and the slow typing issue is gone.

I've asked Erik to try with 8000 line comment on his 32GB rig, since he has
no problems. He might have to increase the size of the text in that field
to 12000 or 16000, but I suspect eventually he too will get your treacle.

On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 4:52 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> When it works it works - I cut the main stack to 7000 lines and still get
> the slowdown.
>
> When it slows down its the same treacle/quicksand/molasses whether the
> machine is a 10th gen with 16g or an 8gig pentium - when its fast its fast
> on both - no consistency
>
> Lagi
>
>
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Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I also have seen the autocomplete stop and start working, and that on a Mac. It 
may have something to do with the length of the script. I have also seen the 
extreme slowdown issue on Windows script editor and also in the performance. 
Most of the performance hit is in the frequent saves I inserted into my code to 
compensate for an old issue where the IDE would crash to desktop. But also I 
have tested sql queries, and they are also several times slower, as is 
populating datagrids and other things. 

As I have stated, I have done timing tests on several Windows platforms and 
have posted those results in the past, so I won't go through that exercise 
again. Suffice it to say that the Mac standalone I would be willing to market 
(if my code were good enough) but I would never attempt to market a Windows 
version of my code at this point. 

Bob S


> On Sep 8, 2021, at 08:47 , Lagi Pittas via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Ben,
> 
> I did some testing using the CPU% in the task manager - i was trying to do
> some more before sending in my results.
> It looks like if it has been running for some time but the time is not
> "quantified" at the moment as I have not been working
> on my project much these last few months.
> 
> When I do NOTICE the slowdown you cabn be sure i am not imagining seeing
> characters typing 1 per second or 2 or the debugger taking ages to go to
> the next step
> or the autocomplete stopping working even after a reboot and then starting
> again for no apparent reason.
> 
> Another real slowdown is when I have the project browser open or the
> messagebox - not always to the same extent or to the same sklowdown.
> 
> I will install 6 (although if I remember 6 was fine)
> 
> Regards Lagi
> 
> On Wed, 8 Sept 2021 at 13:14, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> May I repeat my request that anyone experiencing these issues on Windows
>> (Andre, Lagi, Bob), could if possible confirm whether they find the same
>> applies using LC 6.7?
>> 
>> It would be good to understand if this has always been an issue, or
>> whether it
>> came in with the switch to LC7, as we know some other Windows-specific
>> speed
>> issues did.
>> 
>> Ben


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Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Lagi Pittas via use-livecode]

Hi Curry,

My Laptop is SSD and still the problems. , I have the problems with or
without defender on.I don't use third party antivirus anymore
as (especially with norton that customers still bloody buy)  you get lots
of eyecandy bloat and headaches - the best antivirus i have is
the one between my  ears.

Lagi

On Wed, 8 Sept 2021 at 14:23, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> Ben:
>
>  > It would be good to understand if this has always been an issue,
>  > or whether it came in with the switch to LC7, as we know
>  > some other Windows-specific speed issues did.
>
> Not "it". Instead a combination:
>
> 1. LC 7 Engine Performance issues.
> 2. New Windows antivirus trends affecting disk access.
> 3. Mediocre LC SE design with excessive disk access.
> 4. Lack of LC Dev Team adequate Windows use/testing.
> 5. Fewer "High Roller" or "VIP" LC users focused on Windows.
> 6. New SE "wow" features built atop Mediocre LC SE design.
> 7. Perhaps others/still unknown.
>
> Long thread(s) about this previously including one by myself.
>
> Solutions for many:
>
> 1. Only use SSD, never HDD.
> 2. Tweak antivirus, disable intensive options.
> 3. Turn off some fancy newer SE bling options.
> 4. Adequate memory, optimize PC.
>
> I've had no problems since SSD.
>
> (But yeah, it's mostly mediocre IDE design + antivirus trends,
> plus Mac is the teacher's pet and favored platform.)
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
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Re: AW: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Lagi Pittas via use-livecode]

Also can I make clear that I dont think it is the size of the script.

Originally I had a 2000 line library stack and 14000 line main stack

When it works it works - I cut the main stack to 7000 lines and still get
the slowdown.

When it slows down its the same treacle/quicksand/molasses whether the
machine is a 10th gen with 16g or an 8gig pentium - when its fast its fast
on both - no consistency

Lagi

On Wed, 8 Sept 2021 at 13:39, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks Tiemo.
>
> I think it would help LiveCode address this issue if we knew two things:
> - if this is something that changed at some point, what was that
> point
> - if this doesn't affect everyone on Windows, what are the
> relevant distinctions
>
> In relation to the first question, if someone who is experiencing the
> problem
> was able to test using
>
> https://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/7_0_0/LiveCodeInstaller-7_0_0-Windows.exe
> and
>
> https://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/6_7_11/LiveCodeCommercialInstaller-6_7_11-Windows.exe
> and confirm whether there's a dramatic difference in IDE speed, that would
> help. (Unfortunately since the licensing changes, the available installers
> for
> these old versions require someone with a commercial license.)
>
> In relation to the second, by my count four people have now reported
> harrowingly slow IDE performance on Windows. I think at least two have
> said
> it's fine for them. Could we get a catalogue of the setups which do and
> don't
> experience the issue?
>
> Ben
>
>
> On 08/09/2021 13:26, Tiemo via use-livecode wrote:
> > The response of the IDE on Windows is harrowing slow. It's definitely no
> fun and is chilling for every newbe!
> > I tried all tweaks without result.
> >
> > For me the hassle started with LC 7 (if I remember right)
> >
> > Tiemo
> >
> >
> > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> > Von: use-livecode  Im Auftrag
> von Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode
> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 8. September 2021 14:14
> > An: Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
> > Cc: Ben Rubinstein 
> > Betreff: Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community
> Edition)
> >
> > May I repeat my request that anyone experiencing these issues on Windows
> (Andre, Lagi, Bob), could if possible confirm whether they find the same
> applies using LC 6.7?
> >
> > It would be good to understand if this has always been an issue, or
> whether it came in with the switch to LC7, as we know some other
> Windows-specific speed issues did.
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > On 08/09/2021 11:17, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote:
> >> I mean the script editor mostly but also the rest of the ide has a bit
> of jank. Laying out interfaces on Windows has been worse than doing it on a
> Mac. The worse offender is the script editor though.
> >>
> >>> On 7 Sep 2021, at 23:28, Scott Morrow via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Andre, when you say “so bad” do you mean the script editor or… ?
> >>> --
> >>> Scott Morrow
> >>>
> >>>> On Sep 7, 2021, at 12:57 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> to be honest, the IDE on Windows has been so bad for me that it
> caused me to switch back to a mac...
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
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Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Lagi Pittas via use-livecode]

Hi Ben,

I did some testing using the CPU% in the task manager - i was trying to do
some more before sending in my results.
It looks like if it has been running for some time but the time is not
"quantified" at the moment as I have not been working
on my project much these last few months.

When I do NOTICE the slowdown you cabn be sure i am not imagining seeing
characters typing 1 per second or 2 or the debugger taking ages to go to
the next step
or the autocomplete stopping working even after a reboot and then starting
again for no apparent reason.

Another real slowdown is when I have the project browser open or the
messagebox - not always to the same extent or to the same sklowdown.

I will install 6 (although if I remember 6 was fine)

Regards Lagi

On Wed, 8 Sept 2021 at 13:14, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> May I repeat my request that anyone experiencing these issues on Windows
> (Andre, Lagi, Bob), could if possible confirm whether they find the same
> applies using LC 6.7?
>
> It would be good to understand if this has always been an issue, or
> whether it
> came in with the switch to LC7, as we know some other Windows-specific
> speed
> issues did.
>
> Ben
>
> On 08/09/2021 11:17, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote:
> > I mean the script editor mostly but also the rest of the ide has a bit
> of jank. Laying out interfaces on Windows has been worse than doing it on a
> Mac. The worse offender is the script editor though.
> >
> >> On 7 Sep 2021, at 23:28, Scott Morrow via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Andre, when you say “so bad” do you mean the script editor or… ?
> >> --
> >> Scott Morrow
> >>
> >>> On Sep 7, 2021, at 12:57 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> to be honest, the IDE on Windows has been so bad for me that it caused
> me to switch back to a mac...
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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-- 
KIndest Regards Lagi
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Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I don't use 6.7 anymore, but no, they do not. At least not to the degree they 
do now. 

Bob S


> On Sep 8, 2021, at 05:13 , Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> May I repeat my request that anyone experiencing these issues on Windows 
> (Andre, Lagi, Bob), could if possible confirm whether they find the same 
> applies using LC 6.7?
> 
> It would be good to understand if this has always been an issue, or whether 
> it came in with the switch to LC7, as we know some other Windows-specific 
> speed issues did.
> 
> Ben
> 
> On 08/09/2021 11:17, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote:
>> I mean the script editor mostly but also the rest of the ide has a bit of 
>> jank. Laying out interfaces on Windows has been worse than doing it on a 
>> Mac. The worse offender is the script editor though.
>>> On 7 Sep 2021, at 23:28, Scott Morrow via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Andre, when you say “so bad” do you mean the script editor or… ?
>>> --
>>> Scott Morrow
>>> 
 On Sep 7, 2021, at 12:57 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 to be honest, the IDE on Windows has been so bad for me that it caused me 
 to switch back to a mac...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> subscription preferences:
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Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Ben:

> It would be good to understand if this has always been an issue,
> or whether it came in with the switch to LC7, as we know
> some other Windows-specific speed issues did.

Not "it". Instead a combination:

1. LC 7 Engine Performance issues.
2. New Windows antivirus trends affecting disk access.
3. Mediocre LC SE design with excessive disk access.
4. Lack of LC Dev Team adequate Windows use/testing.
5. Fewer "High Roller" or "VIP" LC users focused on Windows.
6. New SE "wow" features built atop Mediocre LC SE design.
7. Perhaps others/still unknown.

Long thread(s) about this previously including one by myself.

Solutions for many:

1. Only use SSD, never HDD.
2. Tweak antivirus, disable intensive options.
3. Turn off some fancy newer SE bling options.
4. Adequate memory, optimize PC.

I've had no problems since SSD.

(But yeah, it's mostly mediocre IDE design + antivirus trends,
plus Mac is the teacher's pet and favored platform.)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: AW: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode]

Thanks Tiemo.

I think it would help LiveCode address this issue if we knew two things:
- if this is something that changed at some point, what was that point
- if this doesn't affect everyone on Windows, what are the relevant 
distinctions

In relation to the first question, if someone who is experiencing the problem 
was able to test using


https://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/7_0_0/LiveCodeInstaller-7_0_0-Windows.exe
and

https://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/6_7_11/LiveCodeCommercialInstaller-6_7_11-Windows.exe
and confirm whether there's a dramatic difference in IDE speed, that would 
help. (Unfortunately since the licensing changes, the available installers for 
these old versions require someone with a commercial license.)


In relation to the second, by my count four people have now reported 
harrowingly slow IDE performance on Windows. I think at least two have said 
it's fine for them. Could we get a catalogue of the setups which do and don't 
experience the issue?


Ben


On 08/09/2021 13:26, Tiemo via use-livecode wrote:

The response of the IDE on Windows is harrowing slow. It's definitely no fun 
and is chilling for every newbe!
I tried all tweaks without result.

For me the hassle started with LC 7 (if I remember right)

Tiemo


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: use-livecode  Im Auftrag von Ben 
Rubinstein via use-livecode
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 8. September 2021 14:14
An: Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
Cc: Ben Rubinstein 
Betreff: Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

May I repeat my request that anyone experiencing these issues on Windows 
(Andre, Lagi, Bob), could if possible confirm whether they find the same 
applies using LC 6.7?

It would be good to understand if this has always been an issue, or whether it 
came in with the switch to LC7, as we know some other Windows-specific speed 
issues did.

Ben

On 08/09/2021 11:17, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote:

I mean the script editor mostly but also the rest of the ide has a bit of jank. 
Laying out interfaces on Windows has been worse than doing it on a Mac. The 
worse offender is the script editor though.


On 7 Sep 2021, at 23:28, Scott Morrow via use-livecode 
 wrote:

Andre, when you say “so bad” do you mean the script editor or… ?
--
Scott Morrow


On Sep 7, 2021, at 12:57 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
 wrote:

to be honest, the IDE on Windows has been so bad for me that it caused me to 
switch back to a mac...



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AW: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Tiemo via use-livecode]

The response of the IDE on Windows is harrowing slow. It's definitely no fun 
and is chilling for every newbe!
I tried all tweaks without result.

For me the hassle started with LC 7 (if I remember right)

Tiemo


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: use-livecode  Im Auftrag von Ben 
Rubinstein via use-livecode
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 8. September 2021 14:14
An: Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
Cc: Ben Rubinstein 
Betreff: Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

May I repeat my request that anyone experiencing these issues on Windows 
(Andre, Lagi, Bob), could if possible confirm whether they find the same 
applies using LC 6.7?

It would be good to understand if this has always been an issue, or whether it 
came in with the switch to LC7, as we know some other Windows-specific speed 
issues did.

Ben

On 08/09/2021 11:17, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote:
> I mean the script editor mostly but also the rest of the ide has a bit of 
> jank. Laying out interfaces on Windows has been worse than doing it on a Mac. 
> The worse offender is the script editor though.
> 
>> On 7 Sep 2021, at 23:28, Scott Morrow via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Andre, when you say “so bad” do you mean the script editor or… ?
>> --
>> Scott Morrow
>>
>>> On Sep 7, 2021, at 12:57 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> to be honest, the IDE on Windows has been so bad for me that it caused me 
>>> to switch back to a mac...
>>
>>
>> ___
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> 
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Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode]

May I repeat my request that anyone experiencing these issues on Windows 
(Andre, Lagi, Bob), could if possible confirm whether they find the same 
applies using LC 6.7?


It would be good to understand if this has always been an issue, or whether it 
came in with the switch to LC7, as we know some other Windows-specific speed 
issues did.


Ben

On 08/09/2021 11:17, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote:

I mean the script editor mostly but also the rest of the ide has a bit of jank. 
Laying out interfaces on Windows has been worse than doing it on a Mac. The 
worse offender is the script editor though.


On 7 Sep 2021, at 23:28, Scott Morrow via use-livecode 
 wrote:

Andre, when you say “so bad” do you mean the script editor or… ?
--
Scott Morrow


On Sep 7, 2021, at 12:57 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
 wrote:

to be honest, the IDE on Windows has been so bad for me that it caused me to 
switch back to a mac...



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Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

I mean the script editor mostly but also the rest of the ide has a bit of jank. 
Laying out interfaces on Windows has been worse than doing it on a Mac. The 
worse offender is the script editor though.

> On 7 Sep 2021, at 23:28, Scott Morrow via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Andre, when you say “so bad” do you mean the script editor or… ?
> --
> Scott Morrow
> 
>> On Sep 7, 2021, at 12:57 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> to be honest, the IDE on Windows has been so bad for me that it caused me to 
>> switch back to a mac...
> 
> 
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Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Scott Morrow via use-livecode]

Andre, when you say “so bad” do you mean the script editor or… ?
--
Scott Morrow

> On Sep 7, 2021, at 12:57 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> to be honest, the IDE on Windows has been so bad for me that it caused me to 
> switch back to a mac...


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Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Stephen Barncard via use-livecode]

Welcome back, Andre!

On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 12:56 Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> to be honest, the IDE on Windows has been so bad for me that it caused me
> to switch back to a mac...
>
> > On 7 Sep 2021, at 09:00, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I was wondering this too: when Lagi mentioned 'fix the IDE' I thought
> this might be a reference to some of a number of usabiity snags - it didn't
> occur to me that it was just speed.
> >
> > I develop on a nine-year old MacBook and have never noticed a speed
> issue with the IDE. I wonder if it's possible that the Windows IDE has been
> affected by the same issue to do with manipulating quantities of text that
> I've been talking about on the list, which Mark W has suggested might be
> fixed in a release very shortly? (Seems unlikely!) But definitely seems to
> be something platform specific.
> >
> > Lagi, if you're still able to access a 6.7 installer, could you confirm
> whether the IDE under 6.7 has the same problem on your set up? The problems
> with speed on Windows that I'm seeing came in after 6.7.
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > On 03/09/2021 03:05, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote:
> >> Hi Lagi,
> >> I have the LC IDE running on a remote Windows Server with 1 core (2Ghz)
> and
> >> 2GB ram. It struggles at times but is still usable (truly amazingly).
> >> Otherwise, I run it on Windows through Parallels Desktop with VM 8 cores
> >> and 8GB on an 8core 32GB Macbook Pro. Saving a stack takes 15 times
> longer
> >> in Win compared to the same machine in macOS. Other than the slight lag
> and
> >> bugginess of the script editor this is the only slowness I see. Unicode
> >> slows down some procedures but that is not limited to the IDE.
> >> I hope you can work out what is slowing it down to treacle speeds for
> you.
> >> It sounds a bit odd to me.
> >> On Fri, 3 Sept 2021 at 00:16, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running
> on a
> >>> 16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7  processor and it  STILL runs like
> >>> treacle.
> >>> <<
> >>>
> >>> As I don't recognize this experience can you put a video of your
> experience
> >>> on the cloud?  I don't run on hardware anything like as beefy as you
> have.
> >>> The only machine I've got where LC is slow is one where Windows itself
> is
> >>> really slow (a 4yo laptop).  On my two Apple machines (M1 and Intel,
> the
> >>> latter is 5yo) it is not "like treacle", neither is it slow on my i5
> >>> Windows machine.
> >>>
> >>> It's a bit hard for LC Ltd to identify and fix something if it's only
> found
> >>> in some odd cases.
> >>>
> >>> Regards, Bernard
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 10:34 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
> >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
>  Trials of 14 days or even 30 days are a waste of time. I can install
>  something and use it for a couple of days - then life / work gets in
> the
>  way
>  so It sits on the computer for 31 days and then times out.
> 
>   You then have to waste your time and the companies to get an
> extension,
>  and by the time they answer
>  you get cheesed off and remove the  program.
> 
>  The BEST trial is the one that lasts for 30 actual executions or 6
> months
>  (whichever comes first).
> 
>  This stops the clever  SOD who decides to keep it running without
> exiting
>  for 6 months but it times out anyway.
>  Even better if he keeps it on for 2 days it counts as "executing"
> twice
> >>> so
>  it will last 30 days.
> 
>  This means I have 30 days over a 6 month period to really test it
> without
>  rushing.
> 
>  The people who would game the system are the people who won't be loyal
>  customer anyway, so not giving a worthwhile trial period handicaps
> those
>  who want to give it a good try.
> 
>  You can also put a  nag screen  at the start of any executable with
> an OK
>  button  link to a special discounted price - free marketing (what a
>  brilliant Idea, why didn't I think of it?).
> 
>  But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running
> >>> on a
>  16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7  processor and it  STILL runs
> like
>  treacle.
> 
>  If I downloaded it today as a new person it would be off my machine in
> >>> less
>  than 30 minutes.
> 
>  You could also use this as your "marketing" system by "giving it away"
> >>> to
>  schools for nothing and without the trial period but the nag screen.
> 
>  It can then be used by the students to learn programming at no cost -
> and
>  some of the students parent might pony up for a paid for version at a
>  student price (with no expiring standalones of cours - the most stupid
> 

Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Yes, and this is really disconcerting. Not sure how many Mac vs. PC devs there 
are for LC, but I suspect it's weighed heavily towards Mac. I think in 
retrospect, it may have been better to retain UTF-8 as an option, that is be 
able to select unicode or not in an app. But I suspect that would be a lot of 
bloat in the IDE. 

Bob S


> On Sep 7, 2021, at 12:55 , Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> to be honest, the IDE on Windows has been so bad for me that it caused me to 
> switch back to a mac...
> 
>> On 7 Sep 2021, at 09:00, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I was wondering this too: when Lagi mentioned 'fix the IDE' I thought this 
>> might be a reference to some of a number of usabiity snags - it didn't occur 
>> to me that it was just speed.
>> 
>> I develop on a nine-year old MacBook and have never noticed a speed issue 
>> with the IDE. I wonder if it's possible that the Windows IDE has been 
>> affected by the same issue to do with manipulating quantities of text that 
>> I've been talking about on the list, which Mark W has suggested might be 
>> fixed in a release very shortly? (Seems unlikely!) But definitely seems to 
>> be something platform specific.
>> 
>> Lagi, if you're still able to access a 6.7 installer, could you confirm 
>> whether the IDE under 6.7 has the same problem on your set up? The problems 
>> with speed on Windows that I'm seeing came in after 6.7.
>> 
>> Ben


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Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

to be honest, the IDE on Windows has been so bad for me that it caused me to 
switch back to a mac...

> On 7 Sep 2021, at 09:00, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I was wondering this too: when Lagi mentioned 'fix the IDE' I thought this 
> might be a reference to some of a number of usabiity snags - it didn't occur 
> to me that it was just speed.
> 
> I develop on a nine-year old MacBook and have never noticed a speed issue 
> with the IDE. I wonder if it's possible that the Windows IDE has been 
> affected by the same issue to do with manipulating quantities of text that 
> I've been talking about on the list, which Mark W has suggested might be 
> fixed in a release very shortly? (Seems unlikely!) But definitely seems to be 
> something platform specific.
> 
> Lagi, if you're still able to access a 6.7 installer, could you confirm 
> whether the IDE under 6.7 has the same problem on your set up? The problems 
> with speed on Windows that I'm seeing came in after 6.7.
> 
> Ben
> 
> On 03/09/2021 03:05, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi Lagi,
>> I have the LC IDE running on a remote Windows Server with 1 core (2Ghz) and
>> 2GB ram. It struggles at times but is still usable (truly amazingly).
>> Otherwise, I run it on Windows through Parallels Desktop with VM 8 cores
>> and 8GB on an 8core 32GB Macbook Pro. Saving a stack takes 15 times longer
>> in Win compared to the same machine in macOS. Other than the slight lag and
>> bugginess of the script editor this is the only slowness I see. Unicode
>> slows down some procedures but that is not limited to the IDE.
>> I hope you can work out what is slowing it down to treacle speeds for you.
>> It sounds a bit odd to me.
>> On Fri, 3 Sept 2021 at 00:16, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>>> But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running on a
>>> 16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7  processor and it  STILL runs like
>>> treacle.
>>> <<
>>> 
>>> As I don't recognize this experience can you put a video of your experience
>>> on the cloud?  I don't run on hardware anything like as beefy as you have.
>>> The only machine I've got where LC is slow is one where Windows itself is
>>> really slow (a 4yo laptop).  On my two Apple machines (M1 and Intel, the
>>> latter is 5yo) it is not "like treacle", neither is it slow on my i5
>>> Windows machine.
>>> 
>>> It's a bit hard for LC Ltd to identify and fix something if it's only found
>>> in some odd cases.
>>> 
>>> Regards, Bernard
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 10:34 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
 Trials of 14 days or even 30 days are a waste of time. I can install
 something and use it for a couple of days - then life / work gets in the
 way
 so It sits on the computer for 31 days and then times out.
 
  You then have to waste your time and the companies to get an extension,
 and by the time they answer
 you get cheesed off and remove the  program.
 
 The BEST trial is the one that lasts for 30 actual executions or 6 months
 (whichever comes first).
 
 This stops the clever  SOD who decides to keep it running without exiting
 for 6 months but it times out anyway.
 Even better if he keeps it on for 2 days it counts as "executing" twice
>>> so
 it will last 30 days.
 
 This means I have 30 days over a 6 month period to really test it without
 rushing.
 
 The people who would game the system are the people who won't be loyal
 customer anyway, so not giving a worthwhile trial period handicaps those
 who want to give it a good try.
 
 You can also put a  nag screen  at the start of any executable with an OK
 button  link to a special discounted price - free marketing (what a
 brilliant Idea, why didn't I think of it?).
 
 But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running
>>> on a
 16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7  processor and it  STILL runs like
 treacle.
 
 If I downloaded it today as a new person it would be off my machine in
>>> less
 than 30 minutes.
 
 You could also use this as your "marketing" system by "giving it away"
>>> to
 schools for nothing and without the trial period but the nag screen.
 
 It can then be used by the students to learn programming at no cost - and
 some of the students parent might pony up for a paid for version at a
 student price (with no expiring standalones of cours - the most stupid
>>> idea
 of the lot so far)
 
 
 Anyway Kevin, have I/we wastedour time again putting out these cranky,
 stupid and not workable suggestions?.
 
 Lagi
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On Thu, 2 Sept 2021 at 15:55, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
 
> We *are* 

Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[e.beugelaar--- via use-livecode]

I hv never had slowdowns with the IDE or else in Windows 10.
But my system has 32 Gb internal RAM and I use only NVMe. Fastest i7 too. No 
problems.
Its all about hardware when u develop software.

Met vriendelijke groet,
Erik Beugelaar

From: use-livecode  on behalf of Bernard 
Devlin via use-livecode 
Sent: Tuesday, September 7, 2021 7:08:09 PM
To: How to use LiveCode 
Cc: Bernard Devlin 
Subject: Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

Without knowing anything other than "the IDE is like treacle"  I loaded
various stacks in Windows to see what the complaint could possibly be about.
8 seconds for IDE to start - no treacle on opening stacks
8 seconds to open Dictionary - no treacle on searching Dictionary (given
it's loading 1000 pages of lightning-fast searchable text, I think 8
seconds isn't too bad).  I generally open it once and don't shut it until I
close LC.

So I created a new stack and pasted 8000 lines of text into the Script
Editor.  Typing in the Editor then became treacley (but not on OS X).
Switching off Edit/Options/live errors removed any speed degradation on
typing.  Assuming I've correctly identified where the issue is, the issue
is not the IDE, the issue is doing something specific with large scripts
inside the Script Editor.  That may well be the issue that Mark Waddingham
was discussing about sorting text.  The Script editor doesn't slow down
with 100s of lines.

As for general weirdness with Windows. When Windows "anti-virus" scam kicks
in every day, my laptop stops working (even trying to switch between apps
is treacley).  This is something MS have made almost impossible to disable
(I haven't found a way), and I can't set the priority low. I just have to
leave the laptop for an hour and go to do something else.  Someone trying
to save a file during this scan is likely to experience slow file saves.
I've also seen Windows Update taking large amounts of RAM.  These things
are less noticeable on my Windows desktop.

Regards, Bernard

On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 5:15 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> It's worse than the unicode text issue. Saving stacks is from my setup 7
> to 8 times slower in Windows than on a Mac, and I have tried numerous
> Windows configurations from bare metal to VMWare servers running on a
> robust host. In discussions in the past, it seems there isn't a lot
> Livecode can do about it. The issues are with Windows itself. At least that
> was the upshot of the discussions.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Sep 3, 2021, at 06:56 , Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I was wondering this too: when Lagi mentioned 'fix the IDE' I thought
> this might be a reference to some of a number of usabiity snags - it didn't
> occur to me that it was just speed.
> >
> > I develop on a nine-year old MacBook and have never noticed a speed
> issue with the IDE. I wonder if it's possible that the Windows IDE has been
> affected by the same issue to do with manipulating quantities of text that
> I've been talking about on the list, which Mark W has suggested might be
> fixed in a release very shortly? (Seems unlikely!) But definitely seems to
> be something platform specific.
> >
> > Lagi, if you're still able to access a 6.7 installer, could you confirm
> whether the IDE under 6.7 has the same problem on your set up? The problems
> with speed on Windows that I'm seeing came in after 6.7.
> >
> > Ben
>
>
> ___
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> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>
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Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Bernard Devlin via use-livecode]

Without knowing anything other than "the IDE is like treacle"  I loaded
various stacks in Windows to see what the complaint could possibly be about.
8 seconds for IDE to start - no treacle on opening stacks
8 seconds to open Dictionary - no treacle on searching Dictionary (given
it's loading 1000 pages of lightning-fast searchable text, I think 8
seconds isn't too bad).  I generally open it once and don't shut it until I
close LC.

So I created a new stack and pasted 8000 lines of text into the Script
Editor.  Typing in the Editor then became treacley (but not on OS X).
Switching off Edit/Options/live errors removed any speed degradation on
typing.  Assuming I've correctly identified where the issue is, the issue
is not the IDE, the issue is doing something specific with large scripts
inside the Script Editor.  That may well be the issue that Mark Waddingham
was discussing about sorting text.  The Script editor doesn't slow down
with 100s of lines.

As for general weirdness with Windows. When Windows "anti-virus" scam kicks
in every day, my laptop stops working (even trying to switch between apps
is treacley).  This is something MS have made almost impossible to disable
(I haven't found a way), and I can't set the priority low. I just have to
leave the laptop for an hour and go to do something else.  Someone trying
to save a file during this scan is likely to experience slow file saves.
I've also seen Windows Update taking large amounts of RAM.  These things
are less noticeable on my Windows desktop.

Regards, Bernard

On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 5:15 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> It's worse than the unicode text issue. Saving stacks is from my setup 7
> to 8 times slower in Windows than on a Mac, and I have tried numerous
> Windows configurations from bare metal to VMWare servers running on a
> robust host. In discussions in the past, it seems there isn't a lot
> Livecode can do about it. The issues are with Windows itself. At least that
> was the upshot of the discussions.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Sep 3, 2021, at 06:56 , Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I was wondering this too: when Lagi mentioned 'fix the IDE' I thought
> this might be a reference to some of a number of usabiity snags - it didn't
> occur to me that it was just speed.
> >
> > I develop on a nine-year old MacBook and have never noticed a speed
> issue with the IDE. I wonder if it's possible that the Windows IDE has been
> affected by the same issue to do with manipulating quantities of text that
> I've been talking about on the list, which Mark W has suggested might be
> fixed in a release very shortly? (Seems unlikely!) But definitely seems to
> be something platform specific.
> >
> > Lagi, if you're still able to access a 6.7 installer, could you confirm
> whether the IDE under 6.7 has the same problem on your set up? The problems
> with speed on Windows that I'm seeing came in after 6.7.
> >
> > Ben
>
>
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

It's worse than the unicode text issue. Saving stacks is from my setup 7 to 8 
times slower in Windows than on a Mac, and I have tried numerous Windows 
configurations from bare metal to VMWare servers running on a robust host. In 
discussions in the past, it seems there isn't a lot Livecode can do about it. 
The issues are with Windows itself. At least that was the upshot of the 
discussions. 

Bob S


> On Sep 3, 2021, at 06:56 , Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I was wondering this too: when Lagi mentioned 'fix the IDE' I thought this 
> might be a reference to some of a number of usabiity snags - it didn't occur 
> to me that it was just speed.
> 
> I develop on a nine-year old MacBook and have never noticed a speed issue 
> with the IDE. I wonder if it's possible that the Windows IDE has been 
> affected by the same issue to do with manipulating quantities of text that 
> I've been talking about on the list, which Mark W has suggested might be 
> fixed in a release very shortly? (Seems unlikely!) But definitely seems to be 
> something platform specific.
> 
> Lagi, if you're still able to access a 6.7 installer, could you confirm 
> whether the IDE under 6.7 has the same problem on your set up? The problems 
> with speed on Windows that I'm seeing came in after 6.7.
> 
> Ben


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IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode]

I was wondering this too: when Lagi mentioned 'fix the IDE' I thought this 
might be a reference to some of a number of usabiity snags - it didn't occur 
to me that it was just speed.


I develop on a nine-year old MacBook and have never noticed a speed issue with 
the IDE. I wonder if it's possible that the Windows IDE has been affected by 
the same issue to do with manipulating quantities of text that I've been 
talking about on the list, which Mark W has suggested might be fixed in a 
release very shortly? (Seems unlikely!) But definitely seems to be something 
platform specific.


Lagi, if you're still able to access a 6.7 installer, could you confirm 
whether the IDE under 6.7 has the same problem on your set up? The problems 
with speed on Windows that I'm seeing came in after 6.7.


Ben

On 03/09/2021 03:05, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote:

Hi Lagi,
I have the LC IDE running on a remote Windows Server with 1 core (2Ghz) and
2GB ram. It struggles at times but is still usable (truly amazingly).
Otherwise, I run it on Windows through Parallels Desktop with VM 8 cores
and 8GB on an 8core 32GB Macbook Pro. Saving a stack takes 15 times longer
in Win compared to the same machine in macOS. Other than the slight lag and
bugginess of the script editor this is the only slowness I see. Unicode
slows down some procedures but that is not limited to the IDE.

I hope you can work out what is slowing it down to treacle speeds for you.
It sounds a bit odd to me.

On Fri, 3 Sept 2021 at 00:16, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:




But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running on a
16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7  processor and it  STILL runs like
treacle.
<<

As I don't recognize this experience can you put a video of your experience
on the cloud?  I don't run on hardware anything like as beefy as you have.
The only machine I've got where LC is slow is one where Windows itself is
really slow (a 4yo laptop).  On my two Apple machines (M1 and Intel, the
latter is 5yo) it is not "like treacle", neither is it slow on my i5
Windows machine.

It's a bit hard for LC Ltd to identify and fix something if it's only found
in some odd cases.

Regards, Bernard






On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 10:34 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


Trials of 14 days or even 30 days are a waste of time. I can install
something and use it for a couple of days - then life / work gets in the
way
so It sits on the computer for 31 days and then times out.

  You then have to waste your time and the companies to get an extension,
and by the time they answer
you get cheesed off and remove the  program.

The BEST trial is the one that lasts for 30 actual executions or 6 months
(whichever comes first).

This stops the clever  SOD who decides to keep it running without exiting
for 6 months but it times out anyway.
Even better if he keeps it on for 2 days it counts as "executing" twice

so

it will last 30 days.

This means I have 30 days over a 6 month period to really test it without
rushing.

The people who would game the system are the people who won't be loyal
customer anyway, so not giving a worthwhile trial period handicaps those
who want to give it a good try.

You can also put a  nag screen  at the start of any executable with an OK
button  link to a special discounted price - free marketing (what a
brilliant Idea, why didn't I think of it?).

But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running

on a

16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7  processor and it  STILL runs like
treacle.

If I downloaded it today as a new person it would be off my machine in

less

than 30 minutes.

You could also use this as your "marketing" system by "giving it away"

to

schools for nothing and without the trial period but the nag screen.

It can then be used by the students to learn programming at no cost - and
some of the students parent might pony up for a paid for version at a
student price (with no expiring standalones of cours - the most stupid

idea

of the lot so far)


Anyway Kevin, have I/we wastedour time again putting out these cranky,
stupid and not workable suggestions?.

Lagi







On Thu, 2 Sept 2021 at 15:55, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


We *are* considering the length of the trial actively, we may well

give a

longer trial a shot at some point.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 15:51, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via
use-livecode"  wrote:

 True, true.

 There could be a small group of programmers that pass a stack

around

but you would not be able to convince/teach a civilian to install a
programming IDE and explain how to run the stack along with any other
supporting files, SW or plug-ins... Mobile would be a non-starter. I

would

not dismiss this out-of-hand. A 90