Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Forgive the thread necromancy, but it seems Chipp was right again - back in February he wrote: Surprise, Apple changed their license terms-- again. http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9209580/Apple_s_new_App_Store_rules_affect_Amazon_s_Kindle ... My guess is just like the last time, after much hollering a screaming, Apple will change it's mind and backpedal. http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2011-February/153082.html Chipp's guess was correct, less than four months later: Apple Reverses Course On In-App Subscriptions Thursday June 9, 2011 2:55 am PDT by Jordan Golson Apple has quietly changed its guidelines on the pricing of In-App Subscriptions on the App Store. There are no longer any requirements that a subscription be the same price or less than it is offered outside the app. There are no longer any guidelines about price at all. Apple also removed the requirement that external subscriptions must be also offered as an in-app purchase. Content providers may offer In-App subscriptions at whatever price they wish and they are not required to offer an in-app subscription simply because they sell a subscription outside the App Store as well http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/09/apple-reverses-course-on-in-app-subscriptions/ Each of the last two years we've seen disruptive iOS license terms rolled out late winter only to be reversed in summer. What will happen this coming winter, and how many days will it last? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On 06/09/2011 04:02 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Forgive the thread necromancy, but it seems Chipp was right again - back in February he wrote: Surprise, Apple changed their license terms-- again. http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9209580/Apple_s_new_App_Store_rules_affect_Amazon_s_Kindle ... My guess is just like the last time, after much hollering a screaming, Apple will change it's mind and backpedal. http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2011-February/153082.html Chipp's guess was correct, less than four months later: Apple Reverses Course On In-App Subscriptions Thursday June 9, 2011 2:55 am PDT by Jordan Golson Apple has quietly changed its guidelines on the pricing of In-App Subscriptions on the App Store. There are no longer any requirements that a subscription be the same price or less than it is offered outside the app. There are no longer any guidelines about price at all. Apple also removed the requirement that external subscriptions must be also offered as an in-app purchase. Content providers may offer In-App subscriptions at whatever price they wish and they are not required to offer an in-app subscription simply because they sell a subscription outside the App Store as well http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/09/apple-reverses-course-on-in-app-subscriptions/ Each of the last two years we've seen disruptive iOS license terms rolled out late winter only to be reversed in summer. What will happen this coming winter, and how many days will it last? I have been marketing my Devawriter Pro (admittedly as a rolling-beta) for a year now; changing my marketing model every month; so far I've managed to make the princely sum of 8 Euros. What does this amazing revelation prove? Well; either you've got it like Apple, or you haven't, like me; and if you've got it it really doesn't matter how many times you play silly bu##ers, likewise if you haven't . . . :) ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
These changes are probably a mixture of the reaction of publishers to the first agreement, but also an effort to make the iOS 5 Newstand feature be more of a success. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Here is Richard Dreyfuss reading the EULA: http://www.cnet.com/8301-30976_1-20068778-10348864.html ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Hi Colin, Am 09.06.2011 um 17:26 schrieb Colin Holgate: Here is Richard Dreyfuss reading the EULA: http://www.cnet.com/8301-30976_1-20068778-10348864.html LOL! :-D Just wonderful, thanks for the link! My favourite: Effective until (with the light Schweinhundt accent) :-D Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de kl...@major.on-rev.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Hopefully that won't be soon. On Jun 9, 2011, at 12:07 PM, Mark Talluto wrote: Eventually, once they stop radically innovating new concepts, this will all settle down and it will all be business as usual. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Mark Talluto wrote: Apple is pioneering the mobile app market and is pushing hard initially for as much control as they think possible. Thanks to competition and market pressure, they are forced to come back in line with what is reasonable. Reminds me of my last job I had before I started Fourth World, where one of my tasks was doing contract review with our prime contractors, which often meant long conversations with senior counsel at Bechtel, Parsons, and similarly large firms. My boss explained my job like this: They're job is to ask for the world. Your job is to ask for half of it back. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
RE: [OT] Apple at it again
lovely... :-) My boss explained my job like this: They're job is to ask for the world. Your job is to ask for half of it back. Richard Gaskin ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Wow, you had an easy boss! Mine would have told me to ask for 90% of the world back and settle for 80%. Pete Molly's Revenge http://www.mollysrevenge.com On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.comwrote: Mark Talluto wrote: Apple is pioneering the mobile app market and is pushing hard initially for as much control as they think possible. Thanks to competition and market pressure, they are forced to come back in line with what is reasonable. Reminds me of my last job I had before I started Fourth World, where one of my tasks was doing contract review with our prime contractors, which often meant long conversations with senior counsel at Bechtel, Parsons, and similarly large firms. My boss explained my job like this: They're job is to ask for the world. Your job is to ask for half of it back. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
I rather expected this too. By setting draconian price guidelines initially, they can control the market prices. The other requirement of must-also-be-listed makes sure those controlled prices get used. Then a few months later, before legal conflict can come to fruition, Apple revokes these limitations. But the market has been established under their control, and is likely to not drift too far from their desired model after they relinquish control. I think Apple planned to revoke those limits after a few months from the get-go. ~ Chris Innanen ~ Nonsanity On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 9:02 AM, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.comwrote: Forgive the thread necromancy, but it seems Chipp was right again - back in February he wrote: Surprise, Apple changed their license terms-- again. http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9209580/Apple_s_new_App_Store_rules_affect_Amazon_s_Kindle ... My guess is just like the last time, after much hollering a screaming, Apple will change it's mind and backpedal. http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2011-February/153082.html Chipp's guess was correct, less than four months later: Apple Reverses Course On In-App Subscriptions Thursday June 9, 2011 2:55 am PDT by Jordan Golson Apple has quietly changed its guidelines on the pricing of In-App Subscriptions on the App Store. There are no longer any requirements that a subscription be the same price or less than it is offered outside the app. There are no longer any guidelines about price at all. Apple also removed the requirement that external subscriptions must be also offered as an in-app purchase. Content providers may offer In-App subscriptions at whatever price they wish and they are not required to offer an in-app subscription simply because they sell a subscription outside the App Store as well http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/09/apple-reverses-course-on-in-app-subscriptions/ Each of the last two years we've seen disruptive iOS license terms rolled out late winter only to be reversed in summer. What will happen this coming winter, and how many days will it last? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
I never listen to what people say. I only listen to what they mean. ;-) Bob On Jun 9, 2011, at 10:01 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: But that's for another time; for now, I just have to apologize for the stupid pre-coffee typo - obviously They're should be Their: ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On 6/9/11 8:02 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Content providers may offer In-App subscriptions at whatever price they wish and they are not required to offer an in-app subscription simply because they sell a subscription outside the App Store as well Sounds to me like a protective action in response to Lodsys and their patent litigation against developers. I've been following that and it's ugly. Apple needs its developers, and they were in a bind with the original requirements: developers had to use Apple's purchasing system, but Lodsys was suing developers for using it. The solution was to remove the requirement. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Conspiracy upon conspiracy, wheels within wheels eh? Sounds like a Hollywood movie. Bob On Jun 9, 2011, at 10:12 AM, Nonsanity wrote: I rather expected this too. By setting draconian price guidelines initially, they can control the market prices. The other requirement of must-also-be-listed makes sure those controlled prices get used. Then a few months later, before legal conflict can come to fruition, Apple revokes these limitations. But the market has been established under their control, and is likely to not drift too far from their desired model after they relinquish control. I think Apple planned to revoke those limits after a few months from the get-go. ~ Chris Innanen ~ Nonsanity On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 9:02 AM, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.comwrote: Forgive the thread necromancy, but it seems Chipp was right again - back in February he wrote: Surprise, Apple changed their license terms-- again. http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9209580/Apple_s_new_App_Store_rules_affect_Amazon_s_Kindle ... My guess is just like the last time, after much hollering a screaming, Apple will change it's mind and backpedal. http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2011-February/153082.html Chipp's guess was correct, less than four months later: Apple Reverses Course On In-App Subscriptions Thursday June 9, 2011 2:55 am PDT by Jordan Golson Apple has quietly changed its guidelines on the pricing of In-App Subscriptions on the App Store. There are no longer any requirements that a subscription be the same price or less than it is offered outside the app. There are no longer any guidelines about price at all. Apple also removed the requirement that external subscriptions must be also offered as an in-app purchase. Content providers may offer In-App subscriptions at whatever price they wish and they are not required to offer an in-app subscription simply because they sell a subscription outside the App Store as well http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/09/apple-reverses-course-on-in-app-subscriptions/ Each of the last two years we've seen disruptive iOS license terms rolled out late winter only to be reversed in summer. What will happen this coming winter, and how many days will it last? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On 06/09/2011 08:36 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: Conspiracy upon conspiracy, wheels within wheels eh? Sounds like a Hollywood movie. Oooh; can I have the role of the slightly daft Scotsman who manages to make off-colour remarks and put people's hackles up at critical moments? Hey; and if I land the role, I promise NOT to wear my leopard-skin posing briefs . . . . . . whoops, wait a minute . . . Leopard is out . . . I meant to say lion-skin posing briefs . . . :) Bob ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Now, if I could only do better predicting the NBA finals, I might actually make a few bucks! On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 8:02 AM, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.comwrote: Chipp's guess was correct, less than four months later: ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On Jun 9, 2011, at 1:34 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: I never listen to what people say. I only listen to what they mean. ;-) Bob Now, what exactly do you mean by that? (I speak as a psychiatrist...) -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmb...@gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On Jun 9, 2011, at 2:44 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: Hey; and if I land the role, I promise NOT to wear my leopard-skin posing briefs . . . . . . whoops, wait a minute . . . Leopard is out . . . I meant to say lion-skin posing briefs . . . :) Better not... as we have been hearing, Lion is full of bugs. You don't want to find out just what kind of bugs, not in that way. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmb...@gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
What are you saying? (I speak as a patient...) Bob On Jun 9, 2011, at 3:04 PM, Peter Brigham MD wrote: On Jun 9, 2011, at 1:34 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: I never listen to what people say. I only listen to what they mean. ;-) Bob Now, what exactly do you mean by that? (I speak as a psychiatrist...) -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmb...@gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
I'm not sure. (If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague.) :-) -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmb...@gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig On Jun 9, 2011, at 6:36 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: What are you saying? (I speak as a patient...) Bob On Jun 9, 2011, at 3:04 PM, Peter Brigham MD wrote: On Jun 9, 2011, at 1:34 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: I never listen to what people say. I only listen to what they mean. ;-) Bob Now, what exactly do you mean by that? (I speak as a psychiatrist...) -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmb...@gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Why I pay more: The hardware and quality control is still superior and it's easy to maintain the software and hardware On 25 February 2011 23:43, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote: On 02/25/2011 11:08 PM, Colin Holgate wrote: On Feb 25, 2011, at 3:55 PM, François Chaplais wrote: oh, and the new camera on the iPad 2 will see through people's clothes. Yes, but unfortunately only the front side camera does that, so you'd be looking at yourself. Well; it does, increasingly, look like a case of the Emperor's new clothes; or, put it another way; why pay such a lot for Apple products when one can buy stuff that does the same for cheaper? As time goes on, and I become more and more comfortable with Linux I must say I wonder who is wearing the clothes and who is strutting down the main street in the all-together crowing like a cock on a dunghill; but then that only really means that I am starting to feel about Apple the way I've always felt about Microsoft. I also, blame Apple and Microsoft for stifling RISC OS, which was, once-upon-a-time, a better OS than either Apple's or Microsoft's. The main thing that annoys me (pace Richard Stallman) is that when I buy an Apple or Microsoft product I find myself tied up with EULA's; never having been terribly fond of bondage . . . :) ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Stephen Barncard San Francisco Ca. USA more about sqb http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On 02/26/2011 08:25 PM, stephen barncard wrote: Why I pay more: The hardware and quality control is still superior and it's easy to maintain the software and hardware I find that Hewlett-Packard and Ubuntu takes some beating. On 25 February 2011 23:43, Richmondrichmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote: On 02/25/2011 11:08 PM, Colin Holgate wrote: On Feb 25, 2011, at 3:55 PM, François Chaplais wrote: oh, and the new camera on the iPad 2 will see through people's clothes. Yes, but unfortunately only the front side camera does that, so you'd be looking at yourself. Well; it does, increasingly, look like a case of the Emperor's new clothes; or, put it another way; why pay such a lot for Apple products when one can buy stuff that does the same for cheaper? As time goes on, and I become more and more comfortable with Linux I must say I wonder who is wearing the clothes and who is strutting down the main street in the all-together crowing like a cock on a dunghill; but then that only really means that I am starting to feel about Apple the way I've always felt about Microsoft. I also, blame Apple and Microsoft for stifling RISC OS, which was, once-upon-a-time, a better OS than either Apple's or Microsoft's. The main thing that annoys me (pace Richard Stallman) is that when I buy an Apple or Microsoft product I find myself tied up with EULA's; never having been terribly fond of bondage . . . :) ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
oh, and the new camera on the iPad 2 will see through people's clothes. Le 25 févr. 2011 à 21:16, Howard Bornstein a écrit : snip ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On Feb 25, 2011, at 3:55 PM, François Chaplais wrote: oh, and the new camera on the iPad 2 will see through people's clothes. Yes, but unfortunately only the front side camera does that, so you'd be looking at yourself. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
No! I will run in the streets with my iPad facing the crowd! Ha Ha! Le 25 févr. 2011 à 22:08, Colin Holgate a écrit : On Feb 25, 2011, at 3:55 PM, François Chaplais wrote: oh, and the new camera on the iPad 2 will see through people's clothes. Yes, but unfortunately only the front side camera does that, so you'd be looking at yourself. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Reminds me of a skit that Conan O'Brian did last night where a gal had hidden a spy camera in the back end of her jeans, recorded everyone looking at her butt, then posted the video on you tube. Afterwards, Conan says, Well that's bad, but it seems it is much worse than anyone ever thought, after which they cut to another video of Andy Richter chasing around practically drooling the whole time. I guess you'd have to be there. Bob On Feb 25, 2011, at 1:17 PM, François Chaplais wrote: No! I will run in the streets with my iPad facing the crowd! Ha Ha! Le 25 févr. 2011 à 22:08, Colin Holgate a écrit : On Feb 25, 2011, at 3:55 PM, François Chaplais wrote: oh, and the new camera on the iPad 2 will see through people's clothes. Yes, but unfortunately only the front side camera does that, so you'd be looking at yourself. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
But only if you set it up to send a copy of the photo to the TSA screeners at your local airport :-) On Feb 25, 2011, at 2:55 PM, François Chaplais wrote: oh, and the new camera on the iPad 2 will see through people's clothes. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On 02/25/2011 11:08 PM, Colin Holgate wrote: On Feb 25, 2011, at 3:55 PM, François Chaplais wrote: oh, and the new camera on the iPad 2 will see through people's clothes. Yes, but unfortunately only the front side camera does that, so you'd be looking at yourself. Well; it does, increasingly, look like a case of the Emperor's new clothes; or, put it another way; why pay such a lot for Apple products when one can buy stuff that does the same for cheaper? As time goes on, and I become more and more comfortable with Linux I must say I wonder who is wearing the clothes and who is strutting down the main street in the all-together crowing like a cock on a dunghill; but then that only really means that I am starting to feel about Apple the way I've always felt about Microsoft. I also, blame Apple and Microsoft for stifling RISC OS, which was, once-upon-a-time, a better OS than either Apple's or Microsoft's. The main thing that annoys me (pace Richard Stallman) is that when I buy an Apple or Microsoft product I find myself tied up with EULA's; never having been terribly fond of bondage . . . :) ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Heh heh. The Germans loved him! He took Germany from a faltering bankrupt country full of starving people and made them a great nation. It was his methods that were questionable. So if methods are the issue, who among us is good? Sorry I can't help myself. Bob On Feb 16, 2011, at 6:48 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: Reread that part. Just for the record, I in now way am comparing Jobs to Hitler! Just thought the Godwin's law thing was sorta funny-- on second read-- not so much. On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 4:38 PM, Chipp Walters ch...@chipp.com wrote: Furthermore, I don't need to personally know Hitler to know he was a bad, evil man-- and can certainly say so without him here to defend himself. That's just silly. (I've just invoked Godwin's law!) ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On 17 Feb 2011, at 17:36, Bob Sneidar wrote: Heh heh. The Germans loved Hitler! He took Germany from a faltering bankrupt country full of starving people and made them a great nation. No. He destroyed a recouping economy and restarted the war that was deemed to be the last one ever needed. Also, there was no the Germans (and still isn't) as implied by you. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
I wonder how the Germans feel about that? ;-) JUST KIDDING! Bob On Feb 17, 2011, at 9:23 AM, Björnke von Gierke wrote: Also, there was no the Germans (and still isn't) as implied by you. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On 17 Feb 2011, at 18:47, Bob Sneidar wrote: I wonder how the Germans feel about that? ;-) JUST KIDDING! There's no Germans, Russians, Italian or one of the other human group labels that where invented for nationalistic state-building purposes shortly before the great war. Stop implying there are. Also, you really don't know when to stop replying (hint: about 10 replies ago). Second hint: I have a German passport. -- official ChatRev page: http://bjoernke.com?target=chatrev Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev; ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
I wonder if you think that your terse replies to me obligate me to stop replying? The best way to get me to stop replying is to stop yourself. Okay? I have heard about enough from you. I think I will just create a rule to drop everything you post into my trash where it belongs. Bob On Feb 17, 2011, at 9:54 AM, Björnke von Gierke wrote: On 17 Feb 2011, at 18:47, Bob Sneidar wrote: I wonder how the Germans feel about that? ;-) JUST KIDDING! There's no Germans, Russians, Italian or one of the other human group labels that where invented for nationalistic state-building purposes shortly before the great war. Stop implying there are. Also, you really don't know when to stop replying (hint: about 10 replies ago). Second hint: I have a German passport. -- official ChatRev page: http://bjoernke.com?target=chatrev Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev; ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
2011/2/17 Björnke von Gierke b...@mac.com: On 17 Feb 2011, at 18:47, Bob Sneidar wrote: I wonder how the Germans feel about that? ;-) JUST KIDDING! There's no Germans, Russians, Italian or one of the other human group labels that where invented for nationalistic state-building purposes shortly before the great war. Stop implying there are. Also, you really don't know when to stop replying (hint: about 10 replies ago). Second hint: I have a German passport. I have a brazilian and a portuguese passport, are we playing trumphs? :-D -- official ChatRev page: http://bjoernke.com?target=chatrev Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev; ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On 02/17/2011 07:23 PM, Björnke von Gierke wrote: On 17 Feb 2011, at 17:36, Bob Sneidar wrote: Heh heh. The Germans loved Hitler! He took Germany from a faltering bankrupt country full of starving people and made them a great nation. No. He destroyed a recouping economy and restarted the war that was deemed to be the last one ever needed. Also, there was no the Germans (and still isn't) as implied by you. ___ A certain percentage of the Germans voted for Hitler because the country was in a bad state and, at that point, he seemed to offer a way out. Of those who voted: 1. A large proportion had no idea of what he would subsequently do. 2. A lot more were hypnotised by the razzmatazz, the sexy uniforms and the organisation. I don't think any Germans loved Hitler; what I do think is that a huge number of Germans were BRAINWASHED by Hitler. Now, if we examine the Stanley Milgram experiments (whic has already been done on the Use-List) we can see that Americans are just as susceptible to brainwashing and peer pressure as the Germans. I suspect that any set of human beings in the right place at the right time could go the same way. So; while blaming the Germans for what Hitler did is all jolly fashionable and so on, it is a load of old tosh insofar as the vast majority of the German nation (and an awful lot of other people as well) were suffering from a sort of collective madness for about 7-8 years; the consequences of which were just as devastating for them as for most of the other people involved in the World War. And Bob's Heh, heh only serves to let us know that his The Germans loved Hitler is on the level and as well thought out as the sort of stupid pronouncements I used to come out with when I was 7 years old. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Ah but you love to argue so much! If you'd trash every opposing voice, who would you then argue with? Still, probably the wrong place for that. Of course I am not (able of) stopping you, only lambast you at every opportunity. On 17 Feb 2011, at 19:03, Bob Sneidar wrote: I wonder if you think that your terse replies to me obligate me to stop replying? The best way to get me to stop replying is to stop yourself. Okay? I have heard about enough from you. I think I will just create a rule to drop everything you post into my trash where it belongs. Bob On Feb 17, 2011, at 9:54 AM, Björnke von Gierke wrote: On 17 Feb 2011, at 18:47, Bob Sneidar wrote: I wonder how the Germans feel about that? ;-) JUST KIDDING! There's no Germans, Russians, Italian or one of the other human group labels that where invented for nationalistic state-building purposes shortly before the great war. Stop implying there are. Also, you really don't know when to stop replying (hint: about 10 replies ago). Second hint: I have a German passport. -- official ChatRev page: http://bjoernke.com?target=chatrev Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev; ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On 02/17/2011 07:47 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: I wonder how the Germans feel about that? ;-) JUST KIDDING! STOP kidding now! Bob On Feb 17, 2011, at 9:23 AM, Björnke von Gierke wrote: Also, there was no the Germans (and still isn't) as implied by you. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Dear Heather Nagey, Please put a cap on this one. Love, Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On 17 Feb 2011, at 19:12, Andre Garzia wrote: 2011/2/17 Björnke von Gierke b...@mac.com: Also, you really don't know when to stop replying (hint: about 10 replies ago). Second hint: I have a German passport. I have a brazilian and a portuguese passport, are we playing trumphs? :-D I equal your Portuguese with a Swiss one: Split pot! xD -- official ChatRev page: http://bjoernke.com?target=chatrev Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev; ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Dear List Folks, I concur. This thread is dead, please do not reply to any further posts on this topic. Regards, Heather On 17 Feb 2011, at 18:14, Richmond wrote: Dear Heather Nagey, Please put a cap on this one. Love, Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Email has been scanned for viruses by Altman Technologies' email management service - www.altman.co.uk/emailsystems Heather Nagey Customer Services Manager http://www.runrev.com/ LiveCode – Realize fast, compile-free coding ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On 17 Feb 2011, at 18:19, Bob Sneidar wrote: I just know how a country of good people can be deceived This making the original poster's point. :-) And he from Texas, of all places. Sorry Heather. I know you closed it. Cheers Dave ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Ouch, Dave! I resemble that remark! (though I don't feel deceived by Steve Jobs, just misled ;-) On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Dave Cragg dave.cr...@lacscentre.co.ukwrote: On 17 Feb 2011, at 18:19, Bob Sneidar wrote: I just know how a country of good people can be deceived This making the original poster's point. :-) And he from Texas, of all places. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Hi from Beautiful Britanny, Peter Haworth said : I won't use an iPhone or an iPad because of Apple's attitude. Amen to that Peter, after nearly 30 years of faith in Apple and its products, and the long line of their beautiful machines from the 128 down to the iMac. As long as I can't run native LiveCode applications on iPhone or iPad, Apple has lost my unfailing faith. If Apple won't do it, then I will (sadly) look elsewhere. -Francis Nothing should ever be done for the first time ! ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
folks, I am a heavy user of the kindle app for both the iPhone and iPad. I don't have a kindle but I read a lot of scifi in english, I can't buy the books here and my place is small to host them, so I buy digital and save some forests. Imports are heavily taxed here in Brazil, if I buy a kindle and ship it to my place, I will pay 60% on the compound value of the item price, the shipment fee and the insurance, so if the kindle costs 190 USD and shipping costs 50 USD, I end up paying 382 USD which is about 650 BRL (my money). When I bought the iPad, it arrived at the same day as the day apple announced that old developer fiasco. I was left with a device that I had no use but then, I found a very good use for it. I use it for reading books... it does not compare with a digital ink display but it is all that I've got. I marvel at how easy it is to use and how it synchronizes my current reading page between my iPad and my iPhone on the fly. My iPad never leaves home but my old iPhone is always with me, so when commuting to work, I read my books on the ferry boat as it flows across Guanabara Bay, the books is all that makes my ride fun. Since Barcas S/A started using the new badly designed catamaran boats, the ride went from a half hour one to twelve minutes but the new boats feel like an airplane, what is the point of being at one of the most famous bays in the world if you can't see the DAMN WINDOWS! the windows are high and small so the boat feels very hot (specially with 1200 sweating persons in it). The old ferry boats from world war 2 and earlier were slow but hell, they were floating and working for more than sixty years! they had vistas, winds, it was very scenic. Now, on that hot floating oven they call a ferry boat (with pompous names such as Avatares II) it is a very umpleasant trip (with 1200 angry guys next to you, standing). So my kindle app makes the trip fun... I've read six or seven books already between my iPad and my iPhone. The only reason I am staying with my iPhone and iPad is to read my books, now, his steveness will wreck that. My dream phone is not an android one, I am a fan of WebOS since its start and always wanted a phone running that. I think I will try to import a HP/Palm Pre2 or Pre3 if Amazon ever ships a kindle app for them. I have 5 apple laptops, 4 iPods, 1 iMac luxojr, 1 iPad, 1 iPhone, 1 timecapsule, I am a member of the iOS and Mac developer program and I will NOT BUY ANOTHER APPLE PRODUCT ANYTIME SOON. I am betting my chips on android, webos and linux in general. Even microsoft is doing saner things with WP7 Apple is a greedy company, not on the Oracle/SAP level of greediness but still evil. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
If it's Tuesday it must be a new iOS license... ;) Personally, I'm not too concerned about this latest move by Apple. Like Chipp says, Apple will backpedal on this once the implications become clear, just like they did last time: http://whydoeseverythingsuck.com/2010/09/apple-blinks-flash-tools-now-allowed.html Apple is a smart company, far too clever to let all that money walk away - as Seth Weintraub at 9to5Mac wrote yesterday: In fact, I’m willing to bet this move by Apple will spark the biggest move to HTML5 web stores that’s ever existed. http://www.9to5mac.com/52179/apple-to-world-put-up-or-shut-up I'll wager this policy lasts no more than a few months. The only question is whether the reversal will happen before most of the major publishers revamp their apps as web sites. And as long as I have my soothsayer hat on, I'll go one step further, first gently reminding the readers that I also predicted here that Apple would adopt multi-button mouse functionality and move to Intel years before they did: Before 2012 is done The Daily will be a web site. It simply makes business sense: a good news organization requires more eyeballs than a single form factor can provide, and it's an unnecessary limitation in a world of ever-increasing diversity of form factors. An app can reach several million iOS users, but a web site can reach billions of people using every device from every manufacturer. The only mystery here is why publishers didn't start thinking this through until now. There was never a better time to sharpen one's JavaScript skills. Much of the money flowing into iOS projects today will be HTML5 projects tomorrow. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
RE: [OT] Apple at it again
My dream phone is not an android one, I am a fan of WebOS since its start and always wanted a phone running that. Last year at OSCON, I saw a demo of the Ares tool set from some engineers at HP and I have to say, for building web apps, its really beautiful. They have tablets coming, too. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Well . . . Either APPLE are slow learners and they don't realise how this sort of move followed by a retraction makes them look unstable from a policy point of view. Or . . . APPLE knows very well what it is playing at; attracting our attention and then appearing to give way when that is what it intended to do all along. Whatever; I, for one, have 2 manipulative kids of my own, and teach another however many; and have really got past taking these antics terribly seriously; knowing, that rather like 99% of University students who start posing around with their anarchy, communism and so on, they will all end up toeing the thin, fairly boring line when they find that food both in the fridge and the stomach is not a bad thing. Steve Jobs (for all his Veganism) and all of his employees all need to eat. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 3:22 PM, Lynn Fredricks lfredri...@proactive-intl.com wrote: My dream phone is not an android one, I am a fan of WebOS since its start and always wanted a phone running that. Last year at OSCON, I saw a demo of the Ares tool set from some engineers at HP and I have to say, for building web apps, its really beautiful. They have tablets coming, too. Ares still available at http://ares.palm.com Now, when LiveCode for android is done, I will lobby for LiveCode to WebOS (actually should be easy to port revlet engine to WebOS since applications are nothing more than webkit containers...) Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
If vendors do not like the deal, they don't have to sign the contract. If users do not like Apple practices, they can avoid buying the product. Isn't free enterprise grand? We can vote with our wallets! What will NOT by ANY means change one daggum thing however, is bashing Apple on a list no one outside of us reads. And frankly, the assumption that a corporation owes any consideration to anyone who buys nothing from them seems rather totalitarian in it's own right. Don't you think? Just my 2¢. The Devil's (erm I mean Steve Jobs') Advocate On Feb 16, 2011, at 9:27 AM, Richmond wrote: Well . . . Either APPLE are slow learners and they don't realise how this sort of move followed by a retraction makes them look unstable from a policy point of view. Or . . . APPLE knows very well what it is playing at; attracting our attention and then appearing to give way when that is what it intended to do all along. Whatever; I, for one, have 2 manipulative kids of my own, and teach another however many; and have really got past taking these antics terribly seriously; knowing, that rather like 99% of University students who start posing around with their anarchy, communism and so on, they will all end up toeing the thin, fairly boring line when they find that food both in the fridge and the stomach is not a bad thing. Steve Jobs (for all his Veganism) and all of his employees all need to eat. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On 02/16/2011 07:37 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: If vendors do not like the deal, they don't have to sign the contract. If users do not like Apple practices, they can avoid buying the product. Isn't free enterprise grand? We can vote with our wallets! What will NOT by ANY means change one daggum thing however, is bashing Apple on a list no one outside of us reads. And frankly, the assumption that a corporation owes any consideration to anyone who buys nothing from them seems rather totalitarian in it's own right. Don't you think? Just my 2¢. The Devil's (erm I mean Steve Jobs') Advocate Well; as I am the owner of 3 Macs in regular use; another 6 in my attic in Scotland, another 3 under the stairs in my house in Scotland, and have blown up another 3, I feel I have some sort of say as somebody who DOES buy their products! [Ooh; almost forgot, the grey trackball, greyscale laptop I take with me to fool around with Hypercard on long train and plane journeys]. Now; come the summer, I will have to find the money for at least 2 more computers, and in all probability they will be Macs. However, probability is a fickle thing . . . Now, in the great scheme of things my opinion is probably not wirth all that much; but, just as Apple is entitled to strut their funky stuff, so am I. On Feb 16, 2011, at 9:27 AM, Richmond wrote: Well . . . Either APPLE are slow learners and they don't realise how this sort of move followed by a retraction makes them look unstable from a policy point of view. Or . . . APPLE knows very well what it is playing at; attracting our attention and then appearing to give way when that is what it intended to do all along. Whatever; I, for one, have 2 manipulative kids of my own, and teach another however many; and have really got past taking these antics terribly seriously; knowing, that rather like 99% of University students who start posing around with their anarchy, communism and so on, they will all end up toeing the thin, fairly boring line when they find that food both in the fridge and the stomach is not a bad thing. Steve Jobs (for all his Veganism) and all of his employees all need to eat. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Bob said: If vendors do not like the deal, they don't have to sign the contract. If users do not like Apple practices, they can avoid buying the product. What you are overlooking is that vendors like Amazon have already invested who knows how much, to build and provide first class applications for Apple products and their customers. ...and more than just a few Apple customers already have an investment in content from vendors such as Amazon that could largely become useless, without buying a new device. The pure audacity of Mr. Jobs or Apple in general, to continually try and impose their will upon developers, vendors and ultimately the end user is beyond anything we have ever seen previously in the computer industry. Microsoft at their worst, hasn't even come close. Unfortunately, Apple is headed by little more than an egotistical madman who wants control of everything and everyone around him. And that's just my 2¢ also. The People advocate. ;-) Best regards, David C. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Yes, not directed at you in particular Richmond. But I should make the point that you paid Apple money for those things didn't you? And in return you got a product, right? Isn't your contract with Apple now ended? (Once the Warranty expires I mean.) Certainly, it doesn't entitle you to any direct influence on future Apple corporate policy, does it? Now if you were a stock holder, well that is an entirely different story. I guess what I am on the soap box about is the notion so many people have these days that we are owed some say in what amounts to the private affairs of other people or corporations and even countries. If demanding that Hollywood Stars give up the privacy of their own lives when not in the limelight simply because of the jobs they chose, seems not entirely fair to anyone, certainly the proposition that a corporation answers to a general public or to specific individuals not invested in their stocks must also seem a bit unfair? I am reminded of the words of a great man, who was telling a story about a landowner who had hired some day laborers, some early, some the middle of the day, some late afternoon, and some towards the evening. The deal he struck with each was that he would pay them one shekel for their labors. Upon paying the last ones first, and then the first ones last, they began to complain about the unfairness, because the first ones had borne the heat of the day, and so they should be paid more then the last. But the landowner countered that the amount paid was what was agreed to, and also that while the money was in his hand, it was his own to do what he pleased with. Therein lies the rub, as they say. Bob On Feb 16, 2011, at 9:47 AM, Richmond wrote: On 02/16/2011 07:37 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: If vendors do not like the deal, they don't have to sign the contract. If users do not like Apple practices, they can avoid buying the product. Isn't free enterprise grand? We can vote with our wallets! What will NOT by ANY means change one daggum thing however, is bashing Apple on a list no one outside of us reads. And frankly, the assumption that a corporation owes any consideration to anyone who buys nothing from them seems rather totalitarian in it's own right. Don't you think? Just my 2¢. The Devil's (erm I mean Steve Jobs') Advocate Well; as I am the owner of 3 Macs in regular use; another 6 in my attic in Scotland, another 3 under the stairs in my house in Scotland, and have blown up another 3, I feel I have some sort of say as somebody who DOES buy their products! [Ooh; almost forgot, the grey trackball, greyscale laptop I take with me to fool around with Hypercard on long train and plane journeys]. Now; come the summer, I will have to find the money for at least 2 more computers, and in all probability they will be Macs. However, probability is a fickle thing . . . Now, in the great scheme of things my opinion is probably not wirth all that much; but, just as Apple is entitled to strut their funky stuff, so am I. On Feb 16, 2011, at 9:27 AM, Richmond wrote: ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
You are then saying that Apple has violated some contract or agreement, or at least a commonly understood fair practices common law with the vendors. Well and good. There's grounds for a lawsuit then. But character assassinations of people we do not at all know personally, behind the impenetrable shield of the Internet, seems to me a bit cowardly. I am sensitive to these kinds of attack, because I have been the victim of them for years in the past and only found out later what was going on. A person I had pissed off by not giving them what they thought they were owed (admin rights to his computer) had been badmouthing me with everyone everywhere he went at work. I had such a bad reputation for being mean spirited, that people who had never met me before were actually afraid of me. I couldn't understand why when I went waaay out of my way to be kind considerate and polite to people that they still treated me like I was their enemy. It really got me down for a long time until someone had the courage to tell me that this person had been talking badly about me for years. When I finally confronted him about it, the whole thing revolved around the fact that I had gotten management to tell him to stop disabling SSH and Remote Management on the Mac that was really owned by the company, not him. That was it. Years of character assassination because of a personal hair up his arse. So when people talk about what a jerk Steve Jobs is, they may be right, but only by accident, because they DO NOT KNOW HIM. Bob On Feb 16, 2011, at 9:57 AM, David C. wrote: Bob said: If vendors do not like the deal, they don't have to sign the contract. If users do not like Apple practices, they can avoid buying the product. What you are overlooking is that vendors like Amazon have already invested who knows how much, to build and provide first class applications for Apple products and their customers. ...and more than just a few Apple customers already have an investment in content from vendors such as Amazon that could largely become useless, without buying a new device. The pure audacity of Mr. Jobs or Apple in general, to continually try and impose their will upon developers, vendors and ultimately the end user is beyond anything we have ever seen previously in the computer industry. Microsoft at their worst, hasn't even come close. Unfortunately, Apple is headed by little more than an egotistical madman who wants control of everything and everyone around him. And that's just my 2¢ also. The People advocate. ;-) Best regards, David C. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
I just want my devices to be mine again... to be able to tinker with them without making myself a target for a lawsuit... :-/ On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Bob Sneidar b...@twft.com wrote: You are then saying that Apple has violated some contract or agreement, or at least a commonly understood fair practices common law with the vendors. Well and good. There's grounds for a lawsuit then. But character assassinations of people we do not at all know personally, behind the impenetrable shield of the Internet, seems to me a bit cowardly. I am sensitive to these kinds of attack, because I have been the victim of them for years in the past and only found out later what was going on. A person I had pissed off by not giving them what they thought they were owed (admin rights to his computer) had been badmouthing me with everyone everywhere he went at work. I had such a bad reputation for being mean spirited, that people who had never met me before were actually afraid of me. I couldn't understand why when I went waaay out of my way to be kind considerate and polite to people that they still treated me like I was their enemy. It really got me down for a long time until someone had the courage to tell me that this person had been talking badly about me for years. When I finally confronted him about it, the whole thing revolved around the fact that I had gotten management to tell him to stop disabling SSH and Remote Management on the Mac that was really owned by the company, not him. That was it. Years of character assassination because of a personal hair up his arse. So when people talk about what a jerk Steve Jobs is, they may be right, but only by accident, because they DO NOT KNOW HIM. Bob On Feb 16, 2011, at 9:57 AM, David C. wrote: Bob said: If vendors do not like the deal, they don't have to sign the contract. If users do not like Apple practices, they can avoid buying the product. What you are overlooking is that vendors like Amazon have already invested who knows how much, to build and provide first class applications for Apple products and their customers. ...and more than just a few Apple customers already have an investment in content from vendors such as Amazon that could largely become useless, without buying a new device. The pure audacity of Mr. Jobs or Apple in general, to continually try and impose their will upon developers, vendors and ultimately the end user is beyond anything we have ever seen previously in the computer industry. Microsoft at their worst, hasn't even come close. Unfortunately, Apple is headed by little more than an egotistical madman who wants control of everything and everyone around him. And that's just my 2¢ also. The People advocate. ;-) Best regards, David C. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On 02/16/2011 08:10 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: Yes, not directed at you in particular Richmond. But I should make the point that you paid Apple money for those things didn't you? And in return you got a product, right? Isn't your contract with Apple now ended? (Once the Warranty expires I mean.) Certainly, it doesn't entitle you to any direct influence on future Apple corporate policy, does it? Now if you were a stock holder, well that is an entirely different story. Well; I suppose it is up to the individual or the company. But RunRev appears to solicit feedback exactly aimed at the future direction their product will take; of course, whether they take that advice is up to them. I guess what I am on the soap box Ha, ha; that seems to make 2 of us . . . :) about is the notion so many people have these days that we are owed some say in what amounts to the private affairs of other people or corporations and even countries. We are not owed some say in other people's private affairs. But we are entitled to voice an opinion; and where the confusion seems to lie is that if I write Steve Jobs should take a flying leap it is misunderstood to be my feeling that I am allowed to boss Steve Jobs around, rather than my voicing an opinion. Now what I wrote about Apple's current behaviour pattern was not a DIRECTIVE telling them what to do (and I am perfectly entitled to write something in the tone of a directive should I choose), but an attempt at interpreting Apple's corporate motivation (if any) behind their current behaviour pattern. I also compared their corporate behaviour to the behaviour of various children; again, a comparison I have no problem making. If demanding that Hollywood Stars give up the privacy of their own lives when not in the limelight simply because of the jobs they chose, seems not entirely fair to anyone, certainly the proposition that a corporation answers to a general public or to specific individuals not invested in their stocks must also seem a bit unfair? I believe that fair and unfair are words, that with a bit of digging appear to be almost semantically empty; or, alternatively, so poly-semantic that they are almost valueless. I am reminded of the words of a great man, who was telling a story about a landowner who had hired some day laborers, some early, some the middle of the day, some late afternoon, and some towards the evening. The deal he struck with each was that he would pay them one shekel for their labors. Upon paying the last ones first, and then the first ones last, they began to complain about the unfairness, because the first ones had borne the heat of the day, and so they should be paid more then the last. But the landowner countered that the amount paid was what was agreed to, and also that while the money was in his hand, it was his own to do what he pleased with. Funnily enough, the man who is supposed to have told that story is also supposed to have been some sort of proto-socialist. Therein lies the rub, as they say. Some people seemed to think so; they certainly gave that chap a rough time. Bob On Feb 16, 2011, at 9:47 AM, Richmond wrote: On 02/16/2011 07:37 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: If vendors do not like the deal, they don't have to sign the contract. If users do not like Apple practices, they can avoid buying the product. Isn't free enterprise grand? We can vote with our wallets! What will NOT by ANY means change one daggum thing however, is bashing Apple on a list no one outside of us reads. And frankly, the assumption that a corporation owes any consideration to anyone who buys nothing from them seems rather totalitarian in it's own right. Don't you think? Just my 2¢. The Devil's (erm I mean Steve Jobs') Advocate Well; as I am the owner of 3 Macs in regular use; another 6 in my attic in Scotland, another 3 under the stairs in my house in Scotland, and have blown up another 3, I feel I have some sort of say as somebody who DOES buy their products! [Ooh; almost forgot, the grey trackball, greyscale laptop I take with me to fool around with Hypercard on long train and plane journeys]. Now; come the summer, I will have to find the money for at least 2 more computers, and in all probability they will be Macs. However, probability is a fickle thing . . . Now, in the great scheme of things my opinion is probably not worth all that much; but, just as Apple is entitled to strut their funky stuff, so am I. On Feb 16, 2011, at 9:27 AM, Richmond wrote: ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On 02/16/2011 08:29 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: I just want my devices to be mine again... to be able to tinker with them without making myself a target for a lawsuit... :-/ That, my dear, is what the whole cut and thrust of Richard Stallman's critique is about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman in spite of his incredibly high-pitched, tediously repetitive shrieking, the chap is right . . . Probably not that much lurve lost between Stallman and Jobs . . . :) I am typing THIS on a battered, old Pentium 4, running Ubuntu 11.04 that has been mucked around with so much that were it Mac or Windows the vampires would have been feasting off me years ago. Have you ever taken the trouble to read the EULA thingies attached to computers, operating systems and so forth; frightening stuff! ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
I am reminded of the words of a great man, who was telling a story about a landowner who had hired some day laborers, some early, some the middle of the day, some late afternoon, and some towards the evening. The deal he struck with each was that he would pay them one shekel for their labors. snip! Hey, I know that story! :) ...as I recall though, I don't think that the great man telling the story, mentioned anything about that landowner deciding to change the rules of the working relationship after the fact, so to unfairly twist the arms of the previously hired workers, based on the latter negotiations. Ya think? But character assassinations of people we do not at all know personally, behind the impenetrable shield of the Internet, seems to me a bit cowardly. I am sensitive to these kinds of attack... snip! Oh pooh! Anyone old enough to be past the grade school age has had to deal with such things and your inference to someone else being cowardly might just be a be cowardly by your own measure. rolling eyes The fact of the matter is that Mr. Jobs and Apple are in a very public position that effect millions of people on this planet, so the things they do or do not do, ARE subject to public scrutiny. Both good and bad. Whether you personally approve of them or not, opinions differing from your always constant and immediate defense of Mr. Jobs and Apple are just as valid as any argument that you might offer publicly and chances are pretty good that for all of your defense nad bluster, you DO NOT KNOW HIM either. Best regards, David C. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On 02/16/2011 08:54 PM, David C. wrote: Oh pooh! Bravo! ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On 16.02.11 at 11:57 -0600 David C. apparently wrote: Bob said: If vendors do not like the deal, they don't have to sign the contract. If users do not like Apple practices, they can avoid buying the product. What you are overlooking is that vendors like Amazon have already invested who knows how much, to build and provide first class applications for Apple products and their customers. Let us not forget that nobody forces them to use Apple App Store if they are not willing to accept Apple's conditions. They can continue selling as they have been so far. This is quite different from the iOS App Store where it is practically the only selling venue. For some companies with limited marketing reach, 30% cut may well be worth it. Adjustments of this deal will surely follow as marketing forces and loud people have their play, as Richard predicted. Robert ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On 02/16/2011 08:48 PM, Robert Brenstein wrote: On 16.02.11 at 11:57 -0600 David C. apparently wrote: Bob said: If vendors do not like the deal, they don't have to sign the contract. If users do not like Apple practices, they can avoid buying the product. What you are overlooking is that vendors like Amazon have already invested who knows how much, to build and provide first class applications for Apple products and their customers. Let us not forget that nobody forces them to use Apple App Store if they are not willing to accept Apple's conditions. They can continue selling as they have been so far. This is quite different from the iOS App Store where it is practically the only selling venue. For some companies with limited marketing reach, 30% cut may well be worth it. Adjustments of this deal will surely follow as marketing forces and loud people have their play, as Richard predicted. Robert I just sell things from my website; marvellous; rather like my EFL school; only me, myself and I; just imagine; I can strut around and pretend to be Steve Jobs all by myself, in the privacy of my own home, and not have to put up with all sorts of know-it-alls telling me to take flying leaps and so on . . . :) ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On 16 Feb 2011, at 19:10, Bob Sneidar wrote: I guess what I am on the soap box about is the notion so many people have these days that we are owed some say in what amounts to the private affairs of other people or corporations and even countries. Because you'd never tell anyone to stop talking about something you don't like to be talked about, right? Certainly, it doesn't entitle you to any direct influence on future Apple corporate policy, does it? Now if you were a stock holder, well that is an entirely different story. Ah, hmm seems you do... that's confusing. -- official ChatRev page: http://bjoernke.com?target=chatrev Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev; ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
RE: [OT] Apple at it again
If vendors do not like the deal, they don't have to sign the contract. If users do not like Apple practices, they can avoid buying the product. Isn't free enterprise grand? We can vote with our wallets! What will NOT by ANY means change one daggum thing however, is bashing Apple on a list no one outside of us reads. And frankly, the assumption that a corporation owes any consideration to anyone who buys nothing from them seems rather totalitarian in it's own right. Don't you think? I feel that way when someone else votes to raise taxes on me, but not himself. Happens all the time. That said, if you develop for the Mac, you usually are a buyer of Apple products, and Mac developers are influencers in the market - to varying degrees - far more so than the $$$ value of the sale. I think its relevant to discuss here because we as developers are empowered, one way or the other, to make a difference. Free enterprise means we can do more with out dollars and influence if we are smart about it. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
RE: [OT] Apple at it again
Whatever Apple decides to do is one thing (and certainly open to debate), but what REALLY frustrates a lot of people is the constant changing of the rules. Constantly changing the rules may be intentional. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On 2/16/11 11:57 AM, David C. wrote: What you are overlooking is that vendors like Amazon have already invested who knows how much, to build and provide first class applications for Apple products and their customers. True. But as I understand it, it is still possible to purchase content at Amazon using a regular web browser, and then load the books into the i-device, right? It's an extra step but it can be done. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
personally I thin taking 30 percent if the sale is made trough iStore is decent. Not taking money from sales made other places is also decent. What's indecent in my eyes is _demanding_ that any offer made outside of iStore is also mandatory to be made in the iStore as a mirror offer. The last demand is binding stuff together in a very... bondage way. On 16 Feb 2011, at 21:03, J. Landman Gay wrote: On 2/16/11 11:57 AM, David C. wrote: What you are overlooking is that vendors like Amazon have already invested who knows how much, to build and provide first class applications for Apple products and their customers. True. But as I understand it, it is still possible to purchase content at Amazon using a regular web browser, and then load the books into the i-device, right? It's an extra step but it can be done. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- official ChatRev page: http://bjoernke.com?target=chatrev Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev; ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On 2/16/11 2:48 PM, David C. wrote: I do know for certainty that PDF's and e-books of other formats can be emailed to a user account to be converted to work with the Kindle, as long as there isn't any DRM content involved. Unless you are correct, that means folks that own Amazon based e-book content will be forced to purchase Kindle hardware, should Amazon not decide to toe the line with Apple's demands. When you put it that way, I think you're right. I read somewhere that you could bypass the iApp and load books independently, but now I can't recall where I saw that, and maybe it wasn't talking about DRM books. I don't yet own an i-thing, so I'm not clear on this, but if you already have an app installed, won't it continue to work forever? Maybe what I read was assuming you'd continue to use the existing Amazon app. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
I never mentioned the word parable! ;-) I understand that changing the rules after devs invest is very frustrating. But every week? Bit of an exaggeration. And no it's not wrong to be bothered by it, you are invested, and because of that there may be, as I said room for litigation. It's just everyone calling Jobs personal names that my last post is against. And yes, my employer DOES have the right to change my wages beginning at the time he changes them, so long as we do not have a currently binding contract to maintain them for a predefined period of time. He does NOT have the right to agree to pay me x, and then when it is time to pay, actually give me x-y. Also, my employer DOES have the right to change the rules (whatever they are) anytime he wants. He does NOT have the right to hold me responsible for rules that he did not tell me about. Would I defend him for changing the rules? I doubt it to be honest, but I certainly wouldn't have the right to call him a left wing pinko commie fascist or something like that if he did. ;-) Bob On Feb 16, 2011, at 10:34 AM, Marty Knapp wrote: Whatever Apple decides to do is one thing (and certainly open to debate), but what REALLY frustrates a lot of people is the constant changing of the rules. If a developer goes to all the work of getting an app compliant, entering into an agreement, then Apple says, Oh, now we're going to do this instead. And then they may change their mind next week. And then again the week after that . . . is it wrong to be bothered by that? So Bob, if at your place of employment they kept changing the rules on you, and maybe lowering your wages on a whim, would that upset you, or would you defend the right of an employer to do that? Sure we can take our business somewhere else, but to expect people to say Oh well when they have something at stake isn't fair. And in the parable that you've referenced, everyone got what they expected or more, not less - the landowner didn't say, Well I told you I'd pay you this, but now I'm giving you half. Marty Knapp Yes, not directed at you in particular Richmond. But I should make the point that you paid Apple money for those things didn't you? And in return you got a product, right? Isn't your contract with Apple now ended? (Once the Warranty expires I mean.) Certainly, it doesn't entitle you to any direct influence on future Apple corporate policy, does it? Now if you were a stock holder, well that is an entirely different story. I guess what I am on the soap box about is the notion so many people have these days that we are owed some say in what amounts to the private affairs of other people or corporations and even countries. If demanding that Hollywood Stars give up the privacy of their own lives when not in the limelight simply because of the jobs they chose, seems not entirely fair to anyone, certainly the proposition that a corporation answers to a general public or to specific individuals not invested in their stocks must also seem a bit unfair? I am reminded of the words of a great man, who was telling a story about a landowner who had hired some day laborers, some early, some the middle of the day, some late afternoon, and some towards the evening. The deal he struck with each was that he would pay them one shekel for their labors. Upon paying the last ones first, and then the first ones last, they began to complain about the unfairness, because the first ones had borne the heat of the day, and so they should be paid more then the last. But the landowner countered that the amount paid was what was agreed to, and also that while the money was in his hand, it was his own to do what he pleased with. Therein lies the rub, as they say. Bob ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
I don't yet own an i-thing, so I'm not clear on this, but if you already have an app installed, won't it continue to work forever? Well one would certainly hope so and I would imagine they will have to at least to some extent. I'm thinking that the class action suits directed toward both Apple and Amazon would be a pretty big deal otherwise. Personally I'm covered and don't have a real argument... Kindle for iPhone, Kindle for PC, Kindle for Mac, plus the physical Kindle device! I just hate to think that there will be folks out there without the same options... especially those who rely on Kindle for Mac/iPhone to display previously purchased content. Just doesn't seem fair for Apple to put their vendors or their customers through those kinds of hoops, needlessly. Best regards, David C. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Also, a socialist doesn't believe that money that is in your hand is yours to do with as you please. That is contrary to Marxism. Sorry for the politics. It's applicable to the subject. Bob On Feb 16, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Richmond wrote: Upon paying the last ones first, and then the first ones last, they began to complain about the unfairness, because the first ones had borne the heat of the day, and so they should be paid more then the last. But the landowner countered that the amount paid was what was agreed to, and also that while the money was in his hand, it was his own to do what he pleased with. Funnily enough, the man who is supposed to have told that story is also supposed to have been some sort of proto-socialist. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On 02/16/2011 11:20 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: Also, a socialist doesn't believe that money that is in your hand is yours to do with as you please. That is contrary to Marxism. Sorry for the politics. It's applicable to the subject. I know what Marxism is, what it is supposed to be, what it was, and what its long-term consequences are. Remember I live in Bulgaria . . . :) Bob On Feb 16, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Richmond wrote: Upon paying the last ones first, and then the first ones last, they began to complain about the unfairness, because the first ones had borne the heat of the day, and so they should be paid more then the last. But the landowner countered that the amount paid was what was agreed to, and also that while the money was in his hand, it was his own to do what he pleased with. Funnily enough, the man who is supposed to have told that story is also supposed to have been some sort of proto-socialist. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On 2/16/11 3:17 PM, David C. wrote: Just doesn't seem fair for Apple to put their vendors or their customers through those kinds of hoops, needlessly. I certainly have to agree with that. I wonder whether Steve's illness has affected his judgement. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On Feb 16, 2011, at 10:54 AM, David C. wrote: Oh pooh! Anyone old enough to be past the grade school age has had to deal with such things and your inference to someone else being cowardly might just be a be cowardly by your own measure. rolling eyes Except that I am communicating directly with the person who then has a chance to reply, whereas Steve Jobs is not here to defend himself, his actions or those of his company's. The fact of the matter is that Mr. Jobs and Apple are in a very public position that effect millions of people on this planet, so the things they do or do not do, ARE subject to public scrutiny. Both good and bad. I don't debate the point. I agree with you in fact. What sets me back is the particular loathing some of the comments about Apple and Steve Jobs seem to indicate. Go ahead and say you think Apple is wrong. I think they have been wrong about a lot of things. There are some things they did with Server I am fairly incensed about. But isn't calling Steve Jobs a dictator and control freak in another category all together? Whether you personally approve of them or not, opinions differing from your always constant and immediate defense of Mr. Jobs and Apple are just as valid as any argument that you might offer publicly and chances are pretty good that for all of your defense nad bluster, you DO NOT KNOW HIM either. But I am not saying negative things about him. I am not saying positive things either. But let's not continue this any further. You seem to be very upset about all of this. Perhaps I've struck a nerve. My apologies. Best regards, David C. And the best to you also. Bob S. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Just once I believe, and if I'm not mistaken, He thought it worth it because of what He got out of the bargain. Not so poor a chap now! Bob On Feb 16, 2011, at 1:25 PM, Richmond wrote: On 02/16/2011 11:18 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: That's what the proto-socialists say. The neo-conservatives say He's one of them! LOL! At least they seem to want to be on the same side. Poor chap; crucified, recrucified and generally torn apart to serve everybody's agendas. Bob ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Now there's a thought. Also, I wonder how much sway the stockholders and the board of directors have on these decisions. No one seems to think about those guys, but they cannot be silent in all these major decisions. Bob On Feb 16, 2011, at 1:32 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: On 2/16/11 3:17 PM, David C. wrote: Just doesn't seem fair for Apple to put their vendors or their customers through those kinds of hoops, needlessly. I certainly have to agree with that. I wonder whether Steve's illness has affected his judgement. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
But let's not continue this any further. You seem to be very upset about all of this. Perhaps I've struck a nerve. My apologies. Heh, no need for apologies, Bob. We have both voiced our points of disagreement, no more, no less. Actually, I'm not too upset in all of it, because I have a very small stake in the whole affair one way or another. Certainly no real hard feelings at all. ...unfortunately, my superman complex (whatever) gets me all riled up *anytime* I see someone unfairly mistreating a person or persons and/or for taking an unfair advantage of a situation. What I see is yet another attempt for a person or business entity trying to take a very unfair advantage of a given situation, without any regard to the collateral damage, be it individual or a business casualty. I have a pretty low opinion of both Apple and Microsoft and neither have done much to change that for the better. When they act callous and stupid, ...it get's my dander up and flat out ticks me off. Best regards, David C. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Reread that part. Just for the record, I in now way am comparing Jobs to Hitler! Just thought the Godwin's law thing was sorta funny-- on second read-- not so much. On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 4:38 PM, Chipp Walters ch...@chipp.com wrote: Furthermore, I don't need to personally know Hitler to know he was a bad, evil man-- and can certainly say so without him here to defend himself. That's just silly. (I've just invoked Godwin's law!) ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
On Feb 15, 2011, at 9:51 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: I suspect Kindle will have to be dropped from the iPad and iPhone. I'm sure Amazon doesn't have 30% in royalties to cough up to Apple for books sold. That's not good logic. For one thing, people are making fortunes off their 70%, and I'm sure Amazon don't making more of a fortune. Also, the 30% applies to subscribers that Apple acquired for the publisher, not ones that the publisher brought to the app. Here's what the deal is supposed to be,: “Our philosophy is simple—when Apple brings a new subscriber to the app, Apple earns a 30 percent share; when the publisher brings an existing or new subscriber to the app, the publisher keeps 100 percent and Apple earns nothing,” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO. “All we require is that, if a publisher is making a subscription offer outside of the app, the same (or better) offer be made inside the app, so that customers can easily subscribe with one-click right in the app. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] Apple at it again
Well said. Apple's behavior in recent months has been ridiculous. If Microsoft tried anything remotely close to this, the Apple lovers would be in an uproar. This isn't just Amazon, it also applies to newspapers and periodicals who offer subscriptions for online reading of their publications through apps. No company has a right to tell another company what price they can sell their product for and what outlets they must sell them through. I'm a big fan of Apple hardware and software but they are becoming dictatorial. I won't use an iPhone or an iPad because of Apple's attitude. I prefer to use an Android phone and am anxiously awaiting the release of Android tablets, to say nothing of the release of a version of LC that supports Android. Pete Haworth On Feb 15, 2011, at 9:37 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: Colin, if you read the article I referred to, the key issue is the part that reads,, 'Apple does require that if a publisher chooses to sell a digital subscription separately outside of the app, that same subscription offer must be made available, at the same price or less, to customers who wish to subscribe from within the app, Apple's statement read.' Most know Amazon (or for that matter any other mature channel presence company) does not have in it's business proformas an extra 30% profit on every item sold, to send to Apple. Furthermore, Kindle fulfillments are delivered from Amazon's own servers, and I'm sure the buying habits, nor privacy details of their customers are not something they wish to share with Apple or any other third party. Furthermore, Apples states in the article, Publishers and content sellers must remove any links within their apps to outside-the-App Store purchasing options, Apple said, a requirement that means Amazon.com must eliminate the link to the Kindle Store that it currently provides in its iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad apps. So combine that with the REQUIREMENT they allow for in-app purchases, and it appears the decision is already made for Amazon. Please tell me where you think I am off base. My guess is we'll see some back pedaling b Apple on all this very soon. They'll call it a clarification. Hmmm. I wonder how Groupon or other companies like them who use an iPad app to sell their services will fare? On Tuesday, February 15, 2011, Colin Holgate co...@verizon.net wrote: On Feb 15, 2011, at 9:51 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: I suspect Kindle will have to be dropped from the iPad and iPhone. I'm sure Amazon doesn't have 30% in royalties to cough up to Apple for books sold. That's not good logic. For one thing, people are making fortunes off their 70%, and I'm sure Amazon don't making more of a fortune. Also, the 30% applies to subscribers that Apple acquired for the publisher, not ones that the publisher brought to the app. Here's what the deal is supposed to be,: “Our philosophy is simple—when Apple brings a new subscriber to the app, Apple earns a 30 percent share; when the publisher brings an existing or new subscriber to the app, the publisher keeps 100 percent and Apple earns nothing,” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO. “All we require is that, if a publisher is making a subscription offer outside of the app, the same (or better) offer be made inside the app, so that customers can easily subscribe with one-click right in the app. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
