Re: Screen readers
Both Windows and OSX include screen reader libraries: Microsoft Windows includes Microsoft Narrator. Mac OS X includes VoiceOver. However, most visually impaired Windows users who have contacted us, use JAWS from Freedom Scientific. I have also seen some evidence that NVDA, and open source screen reader, is improving and gaining in use. I expect that the LC engine would need to be modified to hook all the LC UI objects into such libraries. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Screen readers
On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 4:46 PM Rick Harrison via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > This is something that should be handled at the operating system level > inside of macOS or Windows etc. A screen reader only works if the web page or application provides information to the system describing the content. LiveCode does not make any of that information available to the operating system. That isn’t the operating systems fault. -- Trevor DeVore ScreenSteps > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Screen readers
This is something that should be handled at the operating system level inside of macOS or Windows etc. Just my 2 cents. Rick > On Dec 10, 2018, at 4:03 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode > wrote: > > On 12/10/18 2:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> On 12/10/2018 3:06 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>> Does screen reader software (for visually limited users) work with LC >>> fields? Anyone know? >>> >> Not in our experience. Have not checked LC9. >> We get requests periodically for versions of our products (both made using >> LiveCode) that support populate screen reader systems for the visually >> impaired. I am very sad to say, we simply can't afford to develop and test >> how to integrate LC for even the most popular system. This is an area where >> I really wish LiveCode Ltd. would do some research and open a Feature >> Exchange to add whatever is needed to make LC apps compliant. We'd >> contribute, but just can't take it on all by ourselves. > > Thanks, that saves me some trouble. It sounds like adding keyboard shortcuts > for some of the buttons is about all I can do. Unfortunate. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Screen readers
On 12/10/18 2:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: On 12/10/2018 3:06 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: Does screen reader software (for visually limited users) work with LC fields? Anyone know? Not in our experience. Have not checked LC9. We get requests periodically for versions of our products (both made using LiveCode) that support populate screen reader systems for the visually impaired. I am very sad to say, we simply can't afford to develop and test how to integrate LC for even the most popular system. This is an area where I really wish LiveCode Ltd. would do some research and open a Feature Exchange to add whatever is needed to make LC apps compliant. We'd contribute, but just can't take it on all by ourselves. Thanks, that saves me some trouble. It sounds like adding keyboard shortcuts for some of the buttons is about all I can do. Unfortunate. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Screen readers
On 12/10/2018 3:06 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: Does screen reader software (for visually limited users) work with LC fields? Anyone know? Not in our experience. Have not checked LC9. We get requests periodically for versions of our products (both made using LiveCode) that support populate screen reader systems for the visually impaired. I am very sad to say, we simply can't afford to develop and test how to integrate LC for even the most popular system. This is an area where I really wish LiveCode Ltd. would do some research and open a Feature Exchange to add whatever is needed to make LC apps compliant. We'd contribute, but just can't take it on all by ourselves. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: screen readers
I have a bin like that. Mine is more like those tiny little circular cans under most people's desk. Yours is probably the size of New York. Bob S On Aug 26, 2015, at 13:14 , Trevor DeVore li...@mangomultimedia.commailto:li...@mangomultimedia.com wrote: For me it is one of those things that I would like to have but isn't absolutely necessary. That means it sits in that little bin In my brain marked Maybe someday -- Trevor DeVore ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: screen readers
I still contend that Richmond is secretly paid by LC to keep list discussions interesting. Of course as their paid minion, I would expect him to deny this. (tongue firmly in cheek) ;-) Phil On 8/27/15 2:36 AM, Graham Samuel wrote: Mark, thanks for that quick, comprehensive and clear reply. Graham PS In this particular context, I don’t want to be drawn into a discussion of the ‘political correctness’ of the terminology - so far, so un-Richmond-ish. On 27 Aug 2015, at 09:52, Mark Schonewille m.schonewi...@economy-x-talk.com wrote: Graham, A screen reader is software that allows visually challenged or visually impaired people to understand what is currently on their computer screen. It allows them to find the right control so they can press the return key or space bar to activate that control and it allows them to hear text that is displayed on the screen. A very well-known screen reader is JAWS but there are quite a few other commercial and open-source screen readers available. I believe the term accessibility is most appropriate in this matter. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/27/2015 10:29, Graham Samuel wrote: I feel a bit Richmond-ish asking this (whether this is a good thing or a bad thing I leave as an exercise for the reader), but what is a screen reader in this context, and how and why has the very wide-ranging term ‘accessibility’ been hijacked in relation to it? I ask as an ignorant observer, but you never know, I might one day want to follow the path that Phil is taking (so far unsuccessfully, but probably it will be made to work in time). I suppose I’m getting too old to keep up with all this, but if anyone has a moment to explain, I’d be grateful. Graham On 26 Aug 2015, at 20:04, Phil Davis rev...@pdslabs.net wrote: Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? I'm experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS X), and VO doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies the window as unknown and doesn't allow you to interact with its elements/objects. Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your experience. -- Phil Davis ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Phil Davis ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: screen readers
One of the 'snags' with most screen readers is that they are NOT really screen readers at all, they are programs that read the content inwith windows of programs with which they are compatible. Until (?) someone develops a LiveCode-specific screen reader, what would be required is a reader that is, indeed a screen reader insofar as it would read either the whole screen or the top-level window on that screen regardless of what program it belonged to. This is pretty interesting: http://webaim.org/techniques/screenreader/ as is this: http://usabilitygeek.com/10-free-screen-reader-blind-visually-impaired-users/ However, I should point out that Orca, while being installable on my Xubuntu 64-bit machine doesn't start up. Most screen readers seem devoted to internet browsers only. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: screen readers
I thought it was the other way around: visually challenged for partially sighted and visually impaired for blind. As a non-native speaker of English, it doesn't mattering to me. I just copy what I read or hear without any emotions attached to the words themselves. -- Kind regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Http://economy-x-talk.com Share the clipboard of your computer over a local network with Clipboard Link http://clipboardlink.economy-x-talk.com Op 27 aug. 2015 om 11:26 heeft Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com het volgende geschreven: On 08/27/2015 12:05 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: Richmond, Not everybody who has eye problems is immediately blind. At least, not in my environment. I assumed you were using visually challenged as a euphemism for 'blind', and visually impaired for 'partially sighted'. Otherwise there was no need whatsoever for your reduplication: visually challenged or visually impaired people. Best, Richmond. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/27/2015 10:59, Richmond wrote: On 08/27/2015 11:52 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: Graham, A screen reader is software that allows visually challenged or visually impaired people Oh, Joy! There we are! to understand what is currently on their computer screen. It allows them to find the right control so they can press the return key or space bar to activate that control and it allows them to hear text that is displayed on the screen. A very well-known screen reader is JAWS but there are quite a few other commercial and open-source screen readers available. I believe the term accessibility is most appropriate in this matter. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: screen readers
On 08/27/2015 01:09 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: I thought it was the other way around: visually challenged for partially sighted and visually impaired for blind. As a non-native speaker of English, it doesn't mattering to me. I just copy what I read or hear without any emotions attached to the words themselves. Ik ben niet emotioneel betrokken bij het Engels. Ah willnae fash mysel anent vocable intil Sudron, but it maks me fair forfechit quhan fowk spak wi sic unco glaikit vocables that one cannae tak tent at quhat they are speiran eftir. An Ah weel ken quhat a blinn mon is, an Ah weel ken quhat a poncy professur mun be, forbye. Yours aye, Richmond. -- Kind regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Http://economy-x-talk.com Share the clipboard of your computer over a local network with Clipboard Link http://clipboardlink.economy-x-talk.com Op 27 aug. 2015 om 11:26 heeft Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com het volgende geschreven: On 08/27/2015 12:05 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: Richmond, Not everybody who has eye problems is immediately blind. At least, not in my environment. I assumed you were using visually challenged as a euphemism for 'blind', and visually impaired for 'partially sighted'. Otherwise there was no need whatsoever for your reduplication: visually challenged or visually impaired people. Best, Richmond. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/27/2015 10:59, Richmond wrote: On 08/27/2015 11:52 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: Graham, A screen reader is software that allows visually challenged or visually impaired people Oh, Joy! There we are! to understand what is currently on their computer screen. It allows them to find the right control so they can press the return key or space bar to activate that control and it allows them to hear text that is displayed on the screen. A very well-known screen reader is JAWS but there are quite a few other commercial and open-source screen readers available. I believe the term accessibility is most appropriate in this matter. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: screen readers
Richmond, Not everybody who has eye problems is immediately blind. At least, not in my environment. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/27/2015 10:59, Richmond wrote: On 08/27/2015 11:52 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: Graham, A screen reader is software that allows visually challenged or visually impaired people Oh, Joy! There we are! to understand what is currently on their computer screen. It allows them to find the right control so they can press the return key or space bar to activate that control and it allows them to hear text that is displayed on the screen. A very well-known screen reader is JAWS but there are quite a few other commercial and open-source screen readers available. I believe the term accessibility is most appropriate in this matter. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: screen readers
On 08/27/2015 12:05 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: Richmond, Not everybody who has eye problems is immediately blind. At least, not in my environment. I assumed you were using visually challenged as a euphemism for 'blind', and visually impaired for 'partially sighted'. Otherwise there was no need whatsoever for your reduplication: visually challenged or visually impaired people. Best, Richmond. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/27/2015 10:59, Richmond wrote: On 08/27/2015 11:52 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: Graham, A screen reader is software that allows visually challenged or visually impaired people Oh, Joy! There we are! to understand what is currently on their computer screen. It allows them to find the right control so they can press the return key or space bar to activate that control and it allows them to hear text that is displayed on the screen. A very well-known screen reader is JAWS but there are quite a few other commercial and open-source screen readers available. I believe the term accessibility is most appropriate in this matter. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: screen readers
Mark, thanks for that quick, comprehensive and clear reply. Graham PS In this particular context, I don’t want to be drawn into a discussion of the ‘political correctness’ of the terminology - so far, so un-Richmond-ish. On 27 Aug 2015, at 09:52, Mark Schonewille m.schonewi...@economy-x-talk.com wrote: Graham, A screen reader is software that allows visually challenged or visually impaired people to understand what is currently on their computer screen. It allows them to find the right control so they can press the return key or space bar to activate that control and it allows them to hear text that is displayed on the screen. A very well-known screen reader is JAWS but there are quite a few other commercial and open-source screen readers available. I believe the term accessibility is most appropriate in this matter. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/27/2015 10:29, Graham Samuel wrote: I feel a bit Richmond-ish asking this (whether this is a good thing or a bad thing I leave as an exercise for the reader), but what is a screen reader in this context, and how and why has the very wide-ranging term ‘accessibility’ been hijacked in relation to it? I ask as an ignorant observer, but you never know, I might one day want to follow the path that Phil is taking (so far unsuccessfully, but probably it will be made to work in time). I suppose I’m getting too old to keep up with all this, but if anyone has a moment to explain, I’d be grateful. Graham On 26 Aug 2015, at 20:04, Phil Davis rev...@pdslabs.net wrote: Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? I'm experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS X), and VO doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies the window as unknown and doesn't allow you to interact with its elements/objects. Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your experience. -- Phil Davis ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: screen readers
Graham, A screen reader is software that allows visually challenged or visually impaired people to understand what is currently on their computer screen. It allows them to find the right control so they can press the return key or space bar to activate that control and it allows them to hear text that is displayed on the screen. A very well-known screen reader is JAWS but there are quite a few other commercial and open-source screen readers available. I believe the term accessibility is most appropriate in this matter. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/27/2015 10:29, Graham Samuel wrote: I feel a bit Richmond-ish asking this (whether this is a good thing or a bad thing I leave as an exercise for the reader), but what is a screen reader in this context, and how and why has the very wide-ranging term ‘accessibility’ been hijacked in relation to it? I ask as an ignorant observer, but you never know, I might one day want to follow the path that Phil is taking (so far unsuccessfully, but probably it will be made to work in time). I suppose I’m getting too old to keep up with all this, but if anyone has a moment to explain, I’d be grateful. Graham On 26 Aug 2015, at 20:04, Phil Davis rev...@pdslabs.net wrote: Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? I'm experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS X), and VO doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies the window as unknown and doesn't allow you to interact with its elements/objects. Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your experience. -- Phil Davis ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: screen readers
On 08/27/2015 11:52 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: Graham, A screen reader is software that allows visually challenged or visually impaired people Oh, Joy! There we are! to understand what is currently on their computer screen. It allows them to find the right control so they can press the return key or space bar to activate that control and it allows them to hear text that is displayed on the screen. A very well-known screen reader is JAWS but there are quite a few other commercial and open-source screen readers available. I believe the term accessibility is most appropriate in this matter. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: screen readers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screen_readers Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: screen readers
I feel a bit Richmond-ish asking this (whether this is a good thing or a bad thing I leave as an exercise for the reader), but what is a screen reader in this context, and how and why has the very wide-ranging term ‘accessibility’ been hijacked in relation to it? I ask as an ignorant observer, but you never know, I might one day want to follow the path that Phil is taking (so far unsuccessfully, but probably it will be made to work in time). I suppose I’m getting too old to keep up with all this, but if anyone has a moment to explain, I’d be grateful. Graham On 26 Aug 2015, at 20:04, Phil Davis rev...@pdslabs.net wrote: Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? I'm experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS X), and VO doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies the window as unknown and doesn't allow you to interact with its elements/objects. Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your experience. -- Phil Davis ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: screen readers
On 08/27/2015 11:29 AM, Graham Samuel wrote: I feel a bit Richmond-ish asking this (whether this is a good thing or a bad thing I leave as an exercise for the reader), but what is a screen reader in this context, and how and why has the very wide-ranging term ‘accessibility’ been hijacked in relation to it? I ask as an ignorant observer, but you never know, I might one day want to follow the path that Phil is taking (so far unsuccessfully, but probably it will be made to work in time). Ha, Ha; now you'll get what you deserve! As far as I understand a screen reader in this context is a piece of software that can turn any text in a LiveCode stack and/or standalone into speech to facilitate blind and partially sighted people. Accessibility is a bit like Issues . . . Woolly thinking reflected in woolly words, or that the people who use these sorts of words are so paranoid about being politically correct they forget that a spade is a 'spade' instead of an earth relocation instrument, I just don't know! I think by 'accessibility' . . . 'in this context' . . . it is meant that a stack is not 'accessible' to blind people because they cannot see it, unless a screen reader can,somehow,verbalise what is displayed on screen. Now I need to be belted round the chops for using 'blind' rather than 'visually challenged'! I suppose I’m getting too old to keep up with all this, but if anyone has a moment to explain, I’d be grateful. I'll send you my spare Zimmer frame by return of post :) Graham On 26 Aug 2015, at 20:04, Phil Davis rev...@pdslabs.net wrote: Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? I'm experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS X), and VO doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies the window as unknown and doesn't allow you to interact with its elements/objects. Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your experience. -- Phil Davis ___ Richmond, a cis-sexual, ectomorphic, previously non-standard hair-coloured, non-African person who enjoys an exogamous union outwith his country of origin. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: screen readers
Phil, Indeed, LiveCode does not currently support Accessibility. I have used a variety of automation software like AppleScript and WinAutomation - and only the outline of the window and the window controls are visible. In fact, I lost a sale last week because my software could not be used with JAWS screenreader software. This is a 2nd project for which I am interested in contributing to financially using my Business Edition credits. I spoke with LiveCode engineering about this very issue. If you look at the new pricing page, you will see info about a Business Feature Exchange (tooltip for Add a Feature on the pricing page). This Business Feature Exchange does not yet formally exist. But when it does, Business Edition customers will be able to pool their resources to get features like this added. Accessibility could potentially be added as a 2 phase project. Phase #1 - Due to the way the Tooltip feature is implemented, it might lend itself to modification allowing some level of Accessibility for existing objects. All of my buttons already have useful tooltips, and this would be a nice stopgap measure. This idea would need investigated further by engineering to determine its practicality and cost/timeframe. I hope to proceed further along with this project after Project #1 has been completed. Phase #2 - New objects built as widgets could have Accessibility added in directly. If you or anyone else is interested in participating in the Business Feature Exchange, feel free to open an online chat session with Iain Morrison by clicking on the Lets Chat button on the pricing page (during business hours). By giving LiveCode Ltd. a heads up now, they might populate the Business Feature Exchange with a few starter projects as part of their rollout process. David Simpson www.fmpromigrator.com On Aug 26, 2015, at 12:12 PM, Phil Davis rev...@pdslabs.net wrote: I see there are some related comments in the Forums. Looks like I'm not alone. Phil On 8/26/15 12:04 PM, Phil Davis wrote: Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? I'm experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS X), and VO doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies the window as unknown and doesn't allow you to interact with its elements/objects. Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your experience. -- Phil Davis ___ livecode-dev mailing list livecode-...@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/livecode-dev ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: screen readers
Thank you Mark. I think your assessment of this matter is probably accurate. Phil On 8/26/15 12:38 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: Hi Phil, As far as I know, LiveCode is currently incompatible with screen readers. This issue has been reported at http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7286 but I don't get the impression that RunRev has a serious interest in fixing this. One of the comments says widgets will solve it, but that would only apply to widgets and not to the script environment, as opposed to the widget builder environment, including any of the current controls, windows, stacks and cards, since those aren't widgets. A programmer who works for me has used a screen reader with Xojo an told me it works as expected. All controls are visible to him and his screen reader doesn't crash all the time. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/26/2015 21:04, Phil Davis wrote: Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? I'm experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS X), and VO doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies the window as unknown and doesn't allow you to interact with its elements/objects. Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your experience. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Phil Davis ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: screen readers
Hi Phil, As far as I know, LiveCode is currently incompatible with screen readers. This issue has been reported at http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7286 but I don't get the impression that RunRev has a serious interest in fixing this. One of the comments says widgets will solve it, but that would only apply to widgets and not to the script environment, as opposed to the widget builder environment, including any of the current controls, windows, stacks and cards, since those aren't widgets. A programmer who works for me has used a screen reader with Xojo an told me it works as expected. All controls are visible to him and his screen reader doesn't crash all the time. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/26/2015 21:04, Phil Davis wrote: Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? I'm experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS X), and VO doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies the window as unknown and doesn't allow you to interact with its elements/objects. Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your experience. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: screen readers
I see there are some related comments in the Forums. Looks like I'm not alone. Phil On 8/26/15 12:04 PM, Phil Davis wrote: Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? I'm experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS X), and VO doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies the window as unknown and doesn't allow you to interact with its elements/objects. Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your experience. -- Phil Davis ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: screen readers
On Wednesday, August 26, 2015, Phil Davis rev...@pdslabs.net wrote: I see there are some related comments in the Forums. Looks like I'm not alone. Phil On 8/26/15 12:04 PM, Phil Davis wrote: Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? I'm experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS X), and VO doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies the window as unknown and doesn't allow you to interact with its elements/objects. Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your experience. I don't know if you saw this thread which discusses a possible solution: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=66t=20673 I haven't ever set aside time to create a list of properties for the accessibilityInfo array which Mark Waddingham mentions. Given the workload that the team has I'm guessing this would need to be a community project or someone would have to use some Business credits to get it done anytime soon. For me it is one of those things that I would like to have but isn't absolutely necessary. That means it sits in that little bin In my brain marked Maybe someday -- Trevor DeVore ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: screen readers
Hi Trevor, I did indeed miss that thread. Thanks for the heads-up! Phil On 8/26/15 1:14 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote: On Wednesday, August 26, 2015, Phil Davis rev...@pdslabs.net wrote: I see there are some related comments in the Forums. Looks like I'm not alone. Phil On 8/26/15 12:04 PM, Phil Davis wrote: Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? I'm experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS X), and VO doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies the window as unknown and doesn't allow you to interact with its elements/objects. Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your experience. I don't know if you saw this thread which discusses a possible solution: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=66t=20673 I haven't ever set aside time to create a list of properties for the accessibilityInfo array which Mark Waddingham mentions. Given the workload that the team has I'm guessing this would need to be a community project or someone would have to use some Business credits to get it done anytime soon. For me it is one of those things that I would like to have but isn't absolutely necessary. That means it sits in that little bin In my brain marked Maybe someday -- Phil Davis ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
