AW: What has changed in MacOS 10.12 in handling code pages?

[Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode]

Sure, for me it is natural and I do those checks myself.

But not for most of my customers, who partially just know, where to turn
on/off their computer. Even in the system requirements I never write (as
most do) MIN OS X 10.x, but OS X 10.x to 10.y. But at last nobody ever reads
that or cares about that. They are just upset, if my software doesn't run
anymore on a new system, while "all other software runs fine" ...
So it's always my problem. But not to tell about development for Android...
Tiemo

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von Kay C Lan via use-livecode
Gesendet: Freitag, 20. Januar 2017 13:15
An: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Kay C Lan <lan.kc.macm...@gmail.com>
Betreff: Re: What has changed in MacOS 10.12 in handling code pages?

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode
<use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>So the issue is solved for my current
> development, but is a great annoyance for all my customers out there 
>with  old versions, because this bug makes my program unusable for all of
them.

So isn't that normal software evolution? With every OS X upgrade most
software vendors have to tweak their product to make it compatible with the
latest and greatest. I usually wait until OS x.2 before scanning the
websites of my most needed software to confirm they are compatible before
I'll consider upgrading my OS.

I think some software developers bank on this 'need to update' to maintain a
revenue stream.

Granted, having fonts display abnormally isn't something I've ever heard of
before.

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Re: What has changed in MacOS 10.12 in handling code pages?

[Kay C Lan via use-livecode]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode
 wrote:
>So the issue is solved for my current
> development, but is a great annoyance for all my customers out there with
> old versions, because this bug makes my program unusable for all of them.

So isn't that normal software evolution? With every OS X upgrade most
software vendors have to tweak their product to make it compatible
with the latest and greatest. I usually wait until OS x.2 before
scanning the websites of my most needed software to confirm they are
compatible before I'll consider upgrading my OS.

I think some software developers bank on this 'need to update' to
maintain a revenue stream.

Granted, having fonts display abnormally isn't something I've ever
heard of before.

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Re: What has changed in MacOS 10.12 in handling code pages?

[Kay C Lan via use-livecode]

On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 2:52 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
 wrote:
>
> These are special font names introduced recently, explained in the
> dictionary under "fontnames".

Ah, I see, in the Dictionary entry for textFont I should have followed
the link to fontNames. Thanks for the heads up.

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Re: What has changed in MacOS 10.12 in handling code pages?

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On 1/17/17 11:24 PM, Kay C Lan via use-livecode wrote:

In LC 6.6.5 on OS X 10.11.6 I created a new stack, dragged a field
onto it (i.e. no font specified for the field) and then in the msg
box:

put the effective textFont of field 1
--the result is 'Lucidia Grande'

In LC 9.0.0 dp4 on the same machine if I do the same thing the result
is '(Text)'

If I go into the LC 9 Object Inspector to set the Font of the newly
created field there are a bunch of entries at the top, which you don't
get in 6.6.5, like:
(Default)
(System)
(Text)
(Styled Text)


These are special font names introduced recently, explained in the 
dictionary under "fontnames". Basically these assignments use the 
system-compatible font for the designated category.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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AW: What has changed in MacOS 10.12 in handling code pages?

[Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode]

Hi Kay C,
Good guess, but it's a stack with the old standard LC font Tahoma, which was
installed on my machine with OS X 10.11 and still is installed in 10.12. The
issue also occurs in answer dialogs, where I havn't (can't) explicitely set
the font.
And the problem only occurs in standalones of <= 2013. The same program
compilied with one of the next versions of >= 2014 looks fine, without
having changed anything with fonts. So the issue is solved for my current
development, but is a great annoyance for all my customers out there with
old versions, because this bug makes my program unusable for all of them.
Tiemo




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Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag
von Kay C Lan via use-livecode
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Januar 2017 06:25
An: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Kay C Lan <lan.kc.macm...@gmail.com>
Betreff: Re: What has changed in MacOS 10.12 in handling code pages?

I was thinking that this might have something to do with the installed fonts
you have and maybe some sort of substitution if the font you used with your
pre-10.12 install is not available with your new install.

Interestingly I've just done a test and got a rather unusual result when
trying to test this theory.

In LC 6.6.5 on OS X 10.11.6 I created a new stack, dragged a field onto it
(i.e. no font specified for the field) and then in the msg
box:

put the effective textFont of field 1
--the result is 'Lucidia Grande'

In LC 9.0.0 dp4 on the same machine if I do the same thing the result is
'(Text)'

If I go into the LC 9 Object Inspector to set the Font of the newly created
field there are a bunch of entries at the top, which you don't get in 6.6.5,
like:
(Default)
(System)
(Text)
(Styled Text)

If I choose a specific font then understandably doing:
put the effective textFont of field 1
-- result is whatever specific font I've chosen.

In the Dictionary the LC6 entry differs from the LC9 entry but both contain
this statement:

On Mac OS systems, if the specified font isn't available, the system font
(which is set in the Appearance control panel and specifies the font used
for menus) is used.

I think that is an old reference to the Classic OS as there is no such thing
as an Appearance Control Panel anymore and you can't set the font of menus.

I'm still leaning towards what fonts you have installed, maybe 10.12 handles
substitution differently than 10.11 and earlier. And somewhere along the way
LC has changed the way it handles and reports situations where no font is
specified - as there are obviously now more default possibilities and the
Dictionary doesn't explain how you might end up with (Default) as opposed to
(Text)

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Re: What has changed in MacOS 10.12 in handling code pages?

[Kay C Lan via use-livecode]

What I should have added:

If you set a font for your stack, does that fix the problem, i.e. you
still leave the font setting for Menus and Fields empty. If not, if
you specify a font for your Menus and Fields does that fix the
problem?

Obviously you have to choose a font you know has Umlaut etc.

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Re: What has changed in MacOS 10.12 in handling code pages?

[Kay C Lan via use-livecode]

I was thinking that this might have something to do with the installed
fonts you have and maybe some sort of substitution if the font you
used with your pre-10.12 install is not available with your new
install.

Interestingly I've just done a test and got a rather unusual result
when trying to test this theory.

In LC 6.6.5 on OS X 10.11.6 I created a new stack, dragged a field
onto it (i.e. no font specified for the field) and then in the msg
box:

put the effective textFont of field 1
--the result is 'Lucidia Grande'

In LC 9.0.0 dp4 on the same machine if I do the same thing the result
is '(Text)'

If I go into the LC 9 Object Inspector to set the Font of the newly
created field there are a bunch of entries at the top, which you don't
get in 6.6.5, like:
(Default)
(System)
(Text)
(Styled Text)

If I choose a specific font then understandably doing:
put the effective textFont of field 1
-- result is whatever specific font I've chosen.

In the Dictionary the LC6 entry differs from the LC9 entry but both
contain this statement:

On Mac OS systems, if the specified font isn't available, the system
font (which is set in the Appearance control panel and specifies the
font used for menus) is used.

I think that is an old reference to the Classic OS as there is no such
thing as an Appearance Control Panel anymore and you can't set the
font of menus.

I'm still leaning towards what fonts you have installed, maybe 10.12
handles substitution differently than 10.11 and earlier. And somewhere
along the way LC has changed the way it handles and reports situations
where no font is specified - as there are obviously now more default
possibilities and the Dictionary doesn't explain how you might end up
with (Default) as opposed to (Text)

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Re: What has changed in MacOS 10.12 in handling code pages?

[Stephen Barncard via use-livecode]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 10:11 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> It was a different world back then. I suppose if Zimbabwe had invented
> computers, we would have been upset that the whole industry revolved around
> Ndebele.
>

sometimes, Bob you are funnier that Richard Gaskin.

--
Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org
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Re: What has changed in MacOS 10.12 in handling code pages?

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

It was a different world back then. I suppose if Zimbabwe had invented 
computers, we would have been upset that the whole industry revolved around 
Ndebele.

Bob S


On Jan 17, 2017, at 04:32 , Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode 
> wrote:

Isn't that crazy? We are logging year 2017 and are still struggling with
code pages, as far as you are not American, as in 1987 or 1997 or 2007 and
probably still in 2027 and 2037.
Who was so short brained to invent ASCII?
Tiemo

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AW: What has changed in MacOS 10.12 in handling code pages?

[Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode]

Obviously it is the LC roulette, which version you have created your
standalone
Tiemo

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Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag
von Klaus major-k via use-livecode
Gesendet: Dienstag, 17. Januar 2017 12:51
An: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Klaus major-k <kl...@major-k.de>
Betreff: Re: What has changed in MacOS 10.12 in handling code pages?

Hi Tiemo,

> Am 17.01.2017 um 11:07 schrieb Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode
<use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> while testing my migration to LC 8 and successfully solved the 
> MacToISO issue, I now encounter that the old LC 6 standalone version 
> of my program shows all Umlaute corrupted in all LC screens, This 
> affects all buttons and field, where Umlaute are used. The weired 
> thing is, that this is a program, which runs since years without any 
> issues with Umlaute. Without having changed anything, just migrated 
> from OS X 10.11 to MacOS 10.12 all Umlaute are shown corrupted in LC 
> standalone (nothing with ext. files, PHP or MySQL, just pure LC), which
worked fine up to now.
> 
> Is there anything known, that Apple has changed something general, 
> what would cause such a behavior in LC, or any other idea what to look
for?

just tested an old standalone (The Exporter), built with LC 5.5.x and all
Umlauts are correctly displayed in buttons and fields.

I'm on macOS 10.12.2.

> Thanks
> 
> Tiemo

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
kl...@major-k.de


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AW: What has changed in MacOS 10.12 in handling code pages?

[Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode]

Isn't that crazy? We are logging year 2017 and are still struggling with
code pages, as far as you are not American, as in 1987 or 1997 or 2007 and
probably still in 2027 and 2037.
Who was so short brained to invent ASCII?
Tiemo

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag
von Malte Brill via use-livecode
Gesendet: Dienstag, 17. Januar 2017 12:43
An: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Cc: Malte Brill <revolut...@derbrill.de>
Betreff: Re: What has changed in MacOS 10.12 in handling code pages? 

Hi Tiemo,

I do not know what changed, but I see the same. Earliest version to fix this
is 6.7.6 as far as I can tell.

Cheers,

Malte


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Re: What has changed in MacOS 10.12 in handling code pages?

[Klaus major-k via use-livecode]

Hi Tiemo,

> Am 17.01.2017 um 11:07 schrieb Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Hello,
> 
> while testing my migration to LC 8 and successfully solved the MacToISO
> issue, I now encounter that the old LC 6 standalone version of my program
> shows all Umlaute corrupted in all LC screens, This affects all buttons and
> field, where Umlaute are used. The weired thing is, that this is a program,
> which runs since years without any issues with Umlaute. Without having
> changed anything, just migrated from OS X 10.11 to MacOS 10.12 all Umlaute
> are shown corrupted in LC standalone (nothing with ext. files, PHP or MySQL,
> just pure LC), which worked fine up to now.
> 
> Is there anything known, that Apple has changed something general, what
> would cause such a behavior in LC, or any other idea what to look for?

just tested an old standalone (The Exporter), built with LC 5.5.x
and all Umlauts are correctly displayed in buttons and fields.

I'm on macOS 10.12.2.

> Thanks
> 
> Tiemo

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: What has changed in MacOS 10.12 in handling code pages?

[Malte Brill via use-livecode]

Hi Tiemo,

I do not know what changed, but I see the same. Earliest version to fix this is 
6.7.6 as far as I can tell.

Cheers,

Malte


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What has changed in MacOS 10.12 in handling code pages?

[Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode]

Hello,

while testing my migration to LC 8 and successfully solved the MacToISO
issue, I now encounter that the old LC 6 standalone version of my program
shows all Umlaute corrupted in all LC screens, This affects all buttons and
field, where Umlaute are used. The weired thing is, that this is a program,
which runs since years without any issues with Umlaute. Without having
changed anything, just migrated from OS X 10.11 to MacOS 10.12 all Umlaute
are shown corrupted in LC standalone (nothing with ext. files, PHP or MySQL,
just pure LC), which worked fine up to now.

Is there anything known, that Apple has changed something general, what
would cause such a behavior in LC, or any other idea what to look for?

Thanks

Tiemo

You glad guys in the US, getting along with just 128 ASCII codes.

 

 

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