subject:"new iPhone 4s"

My wife and I just upgraded our phones (with Verizon).  We each had a Droid
Eris and I have to say they sucked.

I upgraded to an HTC Incredible and my wife got an iPhone 4.  I am extremely
happy with my Incredible - it is a huge advance over the Eris in every way.
I have had it for about a month now and have NEVER had to reboot it.

I'm interested in the comment about malware, lack of controls and poor
security.  Any more info available?  Because I'd like to be aware of
problems in those areas so I can take steps to prevent them.  I've already
installed an anti-virus app.  And let's not forget the hoo hah a couple of
months ago regarding the file of location info that Apple secretly collected
on the iphone

There are two huge advantages to the Incredible for me - Goggle Navigation
and being able to seamlessly and wirelessly sync my phone calendar and
address book with my Apple desktop out of the box.

My wife is equally happy with her iPhone.  I think it comes down to what
sort of user you are ( yes :user, these are computers that happen to make
phone calls).

My wife is not a computer expert and like most Apple products, the iPhone is
very simple to set up and use for the simple, everyday stuff.  I have a
computer background and like to set up a phone the way I want it to be, not
the way the manufacturer thinks it should be.  Plus, no matter how good
Apple products are, I hate the business practices they have adopted over the
last couple of years.

Pete
Molly's Revenge http://www.mollysrevenge.com




On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:33 PM, Admin ad...@mfelkerco.com wrote:



 Bill,

 I could not disagree more. My Iphone crashed constantly and
 had to be rebooted all the time. My wife's BRAND NEW itouch 4 - same
 thing.

 My HTC Evo - NEVER has a problem. Never. Great battery life
 with a nice large battery I purchased for it. Outstanding in every way.
 You are a FOOL if you do not support Android - it dwarfs Apple in sheer
 number of companies that support it. It won't be long before Androids
 far outnumber iphones - it's a numbers game and there are more of them
 and only one of Apple.

 Mike

 On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 21:54:39 -0700, Bill
 Vlahos wrote:

  I haven't used an Android but the people at work who
 have personal ones say they like them but find that they are buggy and
 need to be restarted frequently. The ones that have them like them
 because they can tinker more with them but even they say we shouldn't
 support them. It reminds me of the people who want to build their own
 PCs.
 
  We don't support Android because of malware, lack of controls,
 and poor security model.
 
  I know people complain about no LTE on the
 iPhone but all the LTE phones have horrible battery life. I'll be more
 excited about LTE when it is more widely available. Right now it is
 pointless unless you live in one of the areas that have it.
 
  The
 iPhones prior to the 4 had minimally acceptable battery life but the 4s
 are very good. For people who want even more extended life there are
 very nice battery packs that the iPhones slip into. These add a
 surprisingly small amount of weight and size and are very comfortable. I
 don't use them because I find the battery life to be plenty for me.
 
 
 I think the defining features of the iPhone 4S are the improved
 performance and Siri voice features. If Siri just proves to be speech to
 text like Dragon Naturally Speaking or the feature on Android phones
 then it won't be a big deal at all. However, if it is more like the IBM
 Watson computer that won on Jeopardy then it will truly be
 revolutionary. I won't really be able to know until the 4S is out and I
 can try it.
 
  I think the 4S is a lot better than you describe.
 
 
 Bill Vlahos
  _
  InfoWallet (http://www.infowallet.com
 [3]) is about keeping your important life information with you,
 accessible, and secure.
 
  On Oct 4, 2011, at 7:44 PM, Chipp Walters
 wrote:
 
  Apple iPhone 4s-- ugh. All psyched up about the iPhone 5,
 and Apple lays this turd. So disappointing. Jeez, didn't take them long
 to screw things up now that Jobs is gone. Now, I'm considering upgrading
 my iPhone 4 to Android. Anyone have experience with both and can offer
 advice? -- Chipp Walters CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.
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Re: new iPhone 4s

Chipp

If parts of your messages are off limits for a response then help me by marking 
them as such :)

There's nothing personal about my comments. We are ALL ill-informed when it 
comes to speculation about unannounced products. There's all sorts of noise and 
nonsense in the lead up, some of it specifically designed to manipulate our 
expectations. You asserted a level of entitlement based on your (ill-informed 
by the sources you chose to believe) expectations. 

It's just a phone. We don't need to take it so personally :) 


Gerry



On 05/10/2011, at 3:53 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

 Gerry,
 
 No need to get personal. I suppose you're new about these parts. I'm asking
 for opinions regarding the iPhone vs Android. I certainly wasn't asking your
 opinion of my expectations. Clearly you're a fan of Apple. Good for you.

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Re: new iPhone 4s

You and your wife are a very small sample. But I'm glad you found a phone that 
works for you (so have I - it's an iPhone). And honestly, arguing for the 
superiority of a phone based on the numbers sold is just bad science. Lot's of 
factors (personal preference, carrier choice, cost, product loyalty are also 
part of the mix of factors at play.


On 05/10/2011, at 4:33 PM, Admin wrote:

 My HTC Evo - NEVER has a problem. Never. Great battery life
 with a nice large battery I purchased for it. Outstanding in every way.
 You are a FOOL if you do not support Android - it dwarfs Apple in sheer
 number of companies that support it. It won't be long before Androids
 far outnumber iphones - it's a numbers game and there are more of them
 and only one of Apple. 

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Re: new iPhone 4s

2011-10-05 Thread Bill Vlahos

Firstly. I'm not trying to start or fan a flame war on phones.
I use LiveCode because it supports all platforms.

On Oct 4, 2011, at 11:12 PM, Pete wrote:

My wife and I just upgraded our phones (with Verizon). We each had a Droid
Eris and I have to say they sucked.

I upgraded to an HTC Incredible and my wife got an iPhone 4. I am extremely
happy with my Incredible - it is a huge advance over the Eris in every way.
I have had it for about a month now and have NEVER had to reboot it.
Glad to hear that.

I'm interested in the comment about malware, lack of controls and poor
security. Any more info available?
Malware:
http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/08/23/mcafee.shows.android.facing.huge.spike.in.malware/

Encryption: Honeycomb is the first Android OS to provide built in encryption
and I don't believe any Android phones are running it yet.
The iPhone has always had encryption built in with the 3GS and 4 done in
hardware.

The openness that people like about Android lets you anything from anywhere so
there is very little vetting of software. As far as I know this cannot be
disabled. Check the Malware and Security section in the wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)

Because I'd like to be aware of
problems in those areas so I can take steps to prevent them.
Don't Jail Break your phone. I can't believe the number of people who complain
about iPhone security on JailBroken phones where the purpose of breaking them
is to bypass the security.
I've already
installed an anti-virus app. And let's not forget the hoo hah a couple of
months ago regarding the file of location info that Apple secretly collected
on the iPhone
That file was a mistake, was never uploaded to Apple and has since been
removed. Google has more problems in this area. Read more in the wikipedia
entry on Privacy.

There are two huge advantages to the Incredible for me - Goggle Navigation
and being able to seamlessly and wirelessly sync my phone calendar and
address book with my Apple desktop out of the box.

My wife is equally happy with her iPhone. I think it comes down to what
sort of user you are ( yes :user, these are computers that happen to make
phone calls).

My wife is not a computer expert and like most Apple products, the iPhone is
very simple to set up and use for the simple, everyday stuff. I have a
computer background and like to set up a phone the way I want it to be, not
the way the manufacturer thinks it should be. Plus, no matter how good
Apple products are, I hate the business practices they have adopted over the
last couple of years.

Pete
Molly's Revenge

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new iPhone 4s

Pete,

Thanks very much for your candid and non-biased review-- just what I was
looking for. I'm not i treated in mobile OS wars, but am just thinking of
switching to Android as I very non-plussed with the Apple iPhone 4s, and
would be giving my 4 to my wife. I already own Siri, and don't really use it
that much. I use an app called reQall which I can dictate to and it
automatically puts stuff correctlyonmy calendar. It uses actual humans to do
this and costs a small monthly fee.

Stephen,

Very sorry to have continually affronted your finely honed sense of
fairness! You've been around these forums as long as I have, heck, maybe
longer. We've agreed and disagreed, then agreed some more-- and I've shared
some of my favorite eating places here in Austin with you. Always love
chatting with you and especially enjoy your ruminations of the good old
times. I'm having some fun here-- and trying to learn about Android as well.
I know I'll end up stepping on the sensibilities of the Mac faithful-- it
always happens-- and they always respond predictably, as if one of their own
family is being attacked. C'est la vie!

Gerry,

Again, not really interested in your opinion of my level of ill informed.
I only stated, as have many pundits, bloggers and media folks, that the 4s
is quite a bit less than what we've come to expect from Apple announcements.
I will still stand by my earlier claim the iPhone is the single greatest
invention I have ever owned, with the Mac 128 a close second. But, that was
years ago and I'm interested in learning about the other options today.

PS I do know for a fact the iphone5 exists. That part I'm not ill informed
on. That's all I can say. I was hoping I'd see it today. Guess not.




-- 
Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.
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Re: new iPhone 4s

2011-10-05 Thread Ruslan Zasukhin

On 10/5/11 7:54 AM, Bill Vlahos bvla...@mac.com wrote:

 I haven't used an Android but the people at work who have personal ones say
 they like them but find that they are buggy and need to be restarted
 frequently. The ones that have them like them because they can tinker more
 with them but even they say we shouldn't support them. It reminds me of the
 people who want to build their own PCs.

Choice between ios and android IMO
Very similar to choice between MAC OS X and Linux.

I have linux. And I have spend many days working on it from morning to
evening. During development.

And it looks  Not cool after OS X :)

And endless zoo as result of freedom makes life to be nightmare...
Only people with special mind can be happy with such freedom  I think. :-)


-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]



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Re: new iPhone 4s

2011-10-05 Thread Andre Garzia

Guys,

I have the following machines here:

iPhone 3G, iPad 1, Palm Pre2, Google Nexus S. Take the rest of the email as
personal opinion, I do not claim to speak The Truth but my own experiences.

=== iOS ===

The iOS machines are very polished and built by a company that understands
usability. They created a product to be easy to be used by the masses. It
was never a power user product. It has no features that can come as a
surprise or be misused by their gazillions users. They are GREAT PRODUCTS
and I recommend iOS stuff for my parents and many friends but I don't think
that iOS is the best product out there for power users or developers.

Developing for iOS is a mess due to all the provisioning stuff and Apple
devilish control of who-can-install-what. In essence, you don't control your
own machine. You can install whatever you want. If your friend built and app
that is not on the market, you will need to resort to ad-hoc distribution to
use it. It is a very bad system that punishes the developers. You can have a
curated market and still allow your users to install whatever they want.

From a user point of view, iOS has a lot of apps so there is a chance that
if you want to do something that is on the
approved-list-of-things-you-can-do, you will find suitable apps. iOS has
tons of games and this is a big thing for many users. I think that iOS is
too protected by apple. For example, there is no bluetooth file transfer or
wireless sync and if you create apps to do this kind stuff, they will not be
accepted in the market.

=== Android ===

Android is a bazaar. It has everything but it is confusing. The usability is
not on par with iOS. This does not mean that you can't do stuff, just that
it is harder. By harder I mean:

* some stuff is in awkward places.
* It requires lots of touches to do simple things.
* It was made by google, so searching is the standard way of doing stuff,
you search for a contact, you search for games on the market, you search for
apps... yes you can go by hand using categories to find stuff but there is
exactly the place where usability sucks.

From a developer point of view, android is a mixed blessing. For one,
distributing your stuff is really easy. There is a curated market (Actually
two markets) and yet users can install their own stuff from elsewhere if
they want. The ugly part begins when you start coding your resizeStack
handlers to cope with all the different resolutions. We need a better
geometry manager for mobile. Scripting resizeStack handlers by hand is very
tedious.

From a user point of view, Android works but it is not the most user
friendly guy in the block. Android apps are less polished than iOS apps
mostly because the CocoaTouch stuff rocks and apps inherit everything.
Android is growing fast so there is a lot of excitement and oportunity. Here
in Brazil, most of my friends have Android phones.

=== Personal stuff ===

The phone I am carrying is the Nexus S mostly because of the camera. I love
taking pics and the camera of the iPhone 3G and Palm Pre2 are not even close
to the beautiful shots from the Nexus S. Just look at this pic:
http://fon.nu/14G0JK22

In my experience, the Nexus S and most of the Android phones are very hungry
for power. You need to disable many things to make your battery last. iPhone
power management is better. Android multitasking sucks. Applications stay in
memory and you have no easy way to quit them (Skype, I am looking at you).
It is still better than iOS multitasking for that does not exist, what apple
have now is not multitasking, it is quick launching and some couple resident
services, it is not true multitask.

All in all, I am happier with Android than with iOS mostly because the Nexus
S is way ahead iPhone 3G. If I was comparing the Nexus S to the iPhone 4,
then I think they have basically the same stuff but with Android you have
more power, for example, I have: Opera, Firefox, Dolphin, Webkit installed
on my Nexus S. Why so many browsers? Because I can and with Apple, I could
not.

=== Stuff of Legend ===

If you don't want to hear about systems that are not iOS or Android, stop
reading now because I will start talking about the best system that I've
ever used.

WebOS is the greatest thing to come to mobile ever, too bad it came with bad
hardware and stupid marketing decisions. If being stupid was an Olympic
sport, HP would hold the world record for the next 10 years.

WebOS has the best usability so far. Once you know the system and it takes
about 10 minutes to learn where everything is and how to use things, you
will never be surprised.

WebOS notifications are the best, better than iOS or Android.

Multitasking on WebOS is the best system I've ever seen and I am counting
desktops here. The cards metaphor is great, each application is a card, like
a playing card, you can stack them or flick thru them. When you want to shut
down a running application just throw the card up away from the phone, like
using your thumb or index

RE: new iPhone 4s

2011-10-05 Thread Ralph DiMola

I have an iPad and Droid X. The Droid is multi processing. The iPad runs
only one app at a time (or so it seems). I was out in the back country
snowmobiling using the droid to map and track my location over a PDF of the
trail map. Listening to Pandora via 3g and mp3s to my Bluetooth speaker.
Taking pictures. All at the same time! I also Googled once and made a phone
call or two. Sent an email and accessed my desktop at home when a customer
called. The Mapping program ran and tracked my location at all times. I have
32gigs of sdcard memory and keep 2-4 full length 720p movies onboard at all
times. Great for a road trips! Get to the hotel and connect up the HDMI
cable to the hotel TV and your good-to-go for sdcard or streaming video or
reviewing pictures. The Android is an amazing computer. 1 battery(high
capacity to be fair) lasts ~8-10 Hours during the snowmobile outings. I
always carry a spare battery and can change it at will.

IPhones and iPads are REALLY cool devices, but the Android is just plain
amazing.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
Phone: 518-636-3998 Ex:11
Cell: 518-796-9332


-Original Message-
From: use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Chipp Walters
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 10:44 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Subject: new iPhone 4s

Apple iPhone 4s-- ugh. All psyched up about the iPhone 5, and Apple lays
this turd. So disappointing. Jeez, didn't take them long to screw things up
now that Jobs is gone.

Now, I'm considering upgrading my iPhone 4 to Android. Anyone have
experience with both and can offer advice?

-- 
Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.
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Re: new iPhone 4s

What the heck, I'll add to this. I have both an iPad 2 and a cheapo 
Archos 7 Android tablet.


As a long-time computer user, I found iOS extremely frustrating. The 
beauty of Mac was always its consistency -- you always knew where the 
menus and other bits were. iOS is more like early Windows in that every 
app decides on its own what controls you have and where they are placed. 
I can't find anything on the iPad, and half the time that's because the 
developer just didn't put what I want in there. To me, iOS seems so 
dumbed down I can barely use it. I also don't like Apple's iron control 
of the device but on the other hand I appreciate the security.


I like Android OS a lot. There is more consistency, every app has menus, 
most have common interface elements, you can browse the file system and 
you have far more control over the device. You can install what you want 
and you are responsible for your decisions. That doesn't bother me. Most 
Android malware comes from non-authorized sources, so I stick to Market 
and Amazon for apps.


My iPad is far more stable than my Android tablet, though. That may be 
because I use the Android more and have installed a lot of buggy test 
apps on it. I do need to reboot the device more often. I prefer the way 
the iBook software on iOS looks, but in practice I use Aldiko on Android 
because it has more features and is more adjustable. I find that most 
major Android apps offer more features than iOS apps. It's the dumb-down 
thing again.


I don't watch many movies or play much music on either one, but when I 
have, I find the experience to be fairly comparable. My Archos, in spite 
of its lowly specs, is a very good media machine and can play more types 
of content than iOS (and not just Flash.)


For me, iOS seems good for non-computer users who have specific uses in 
mind and few requirements. Android is good for people who actually want 
to have some control over their device and its content.


Google announced yesterday that new Android activations have tripled in 
the last three months and within a few weeks there will be 1 million new 
activations per day. iOS has 80% of the tablet market, but Android holds 
most of the phone market. Adobe is releasing its mobile version of 
Photoshop for Android first, to be followed later by an iOS version. 
That's what I plan to do for the app I'm working on too. It's much 
easier to release for Android.


I have to agree that any developer who is ignoring Android is cutting 
themselves off from a huge chunk of market share.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: new iPhone 4s

2011-10-05 Thread Bob Sneidar

I agree with you mostly, except being an IT guy, I know how easily people 
attribute any problems that arise to the network or to the IT guy and they 
do not need any real hard empirical data to back it up. They just know. 

So let's say Apple allows apps outside their app store to be installed and 
used. Suddenly Joe Shmo's battery is running down in 4 hours. Suzy Shmo 
installs another app and next day all her contacts are getting spammed to 
death, and she cannot log into her bank account anymore because the password 
changed. All of a sudden the iPhone sucks. In their early days that would have 
been fatal. 

I am dealing now with a laptop that is extremely slow. I allowed the end user 
to be an admin with the promise he would not install software that was not 
absolutely necessary, and from a reputable source. I now discover he has a bit 
torrent client and a free movie downloader, and the disk is almost full. 

Freedom comes at a price, especially if the freeman has no compunction towards 
wisdom. 

Bob


On Oct 5, 2011, at 7:31 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

 You can have a
 curated market and still allow your users to install whatever they want.


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Re: new iPhone 4s


On 10/5/11 11:34 AM, Colin Holgate wrote:


Android:

1. Touch the Clock in the lower right.
2. In the popup that appears there are some sliders to the right. Touch those.
3. In the popup that appears, touch Settings at the bottom.
4. Touch Applications in the list on the left.
5. Touch Manage applications at the top of the list on the right.
6. In the next screen, touch Running on the right.
7. This next step can take a while, because it lists all of the processes 
running. Scroll through the list to find the app you want to close, and touch 
that.
8. There may be more than one sub process listed. Touch Stop for each one.
9. You're back at the previous list now, scroll until you find the next app you 
want to close. Touch Stop.
10. If greeted with a Stop system service? dialog, touch OK.
11. Repeat steps 9 and 10 for each of the other apps you want to close.

I have installed Advanced Task Killer, which does allow me to quickly
 close all the processes I want, but I'm only comparing the standard 
features here.


You're right about most of the steps, but I can reduce the number of 
them a bit. I keep the Settings app on my Home screen.


1. Touch Settings
2. Touch Applications.
3. Touch Manage
4. (Touch Running) - most of the time I can skip this since the app is 
usually in the default list. That avoids the delay while the OS creates 
a new list.

5. Touch the app, touch Stop.
6. Repeat step 5 for any others

But: you shouldn't be closing processes on Android, it's counter 
productive. Running apps is a misnomer; they use zero resources, and 
the OS will close them automatically as necessary. That may be why it 
takes so many steps to do it; in practice it is almost never a good 
idea. Task killers are now considered harmful and to be avoided:


http://droid-den.com/android-guides/android-guide-should-i-use-a-task-killer/

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: new iPhone 4s

For any of you that didn't spend the time to watch the 90 minute presentation 
yesterday, here's an 80 second version:

http://gizmodo.com/5846804/the-entire-iphone-4s-keynote-in-80-seconds


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Re: new iPhone 4s


On 10/5/11 12:18 PM, Colin Holgate wrote:

That's a nice theory, but I find that apps such as Angry Birds can
get very choppy, and closing everything else can help.


It isn't a theory. Google android task killer necessary.

But if it works for you, that's okay. The better way to manage things is 
to just set your apps not to poll in the background.


--
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: new iPhone 4s

You can reduce the first 4 steps to 1 by creating a shortcut to Running
Services.

Pete
Molly's Revenge http://www.mollysrevenge.com

You're right about most of the steps, but I can reduce the number of them a
bit. I keep the Settings app on my Home screen.

1. Touch Settings
2. Touch Applications.
3. Touch Manage
4. (Touch Running) - most of the time I can skip this since the app is
usually in the default list. That avoids the delay while the OS creates a
new list.
5. Touch the app, touch Stop.
6. Repeat step 5 for any others

But: you shouldn't be closing processes on Android, it's counter
productive. Running apps is a misnomer; they use zero resources, and the
OS will close them automatically as necessary. That may be why it takes so
many steps to do it; in practice it is almost never a good idea. Task
killers are now considered harmful and to be avoided:

http://droid-den.com/android-**guides/android-guide-should-i-**
use-a-task-killer/http://droid-den.com/android-guides/android-guide-should-i-use-a-task-killer/

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HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: new iPhone 4s

2011-10-05 Thread Andre Garzia

On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 2:08 PM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.comwrote:


 But: you shouldn't be closing processes on Android, it's counter
 productive. Running apps is a misnomer; they use zero resources, and the
 OS will close them automatically as necessary.


Jacque,

Yes but Skype is an offender. Drinking battery like a man thats been on the
desert for nine months and finally gets some lemonade :-(  I use this
mostly to kill skype

-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
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Re: new iPhone 4s


On 10/5/11 12:56 PM, Pete wrote:

You can reduce the first 4 steps to 1 by creating a shortcut to Running
Services.


Can I do it with native Froyo?

I spent quite a while last night trying to download a third-party 
launcher alternative and neither AppBrain, Market, or Amazon would allow 
my Archos to download one, even though the Archos forum has many folks 
using those successfully. So I can't use something like Launcher Pro's 
shortcuts feature, which I'd like to do.


(If anyone is willing to send me the apk for Go Launcher or Launcher 
Pro, I'd appreciate it. They are both free. Stupid Market doesn't think 
my Archos is compatible.)


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: new iPhone 4s


On 10/5/11 1:01 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 2:08 PM, J. Landman Gayjac...@hyperactivesw.comwrote:



But: you shouldn't be closing processes on Android, it's counter
productive. Running apps is a misnomer; they use zero resources, and the
OS will close them automatically as necessary.



Jacque,

Yes but Skype is an offender. Drinking battery like a man thats been on the
desert for nine months and finally gets some lemonade :-(  I use this
mostly to kill skype



That's acceptable, it's one of the exceptions that matches the criteria 
explained in the first article I linked to. I do the same. I also have 
Skype set not to start on bootup, so I don't have to kill it unless I 
manually launch it.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: new iPhone 4s

2011-10-05 Thread Richard Gaskin

Bob Sneidar wrote:

I agree with you mostly, except being an IT guy, I know how easily people attribute any problems that arise
to the network or to the IT guy and they do not need any real hard empirical data to
back it up. They just know.

...

Freedom comes at a price, especially if the freeman has no compunction towards
wisdom.

In a very different context, Ben Franklin is alleged to have once said:

He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.

;)

The cool thing is we have a choice. We can evaluate the trade-offs
inherent in the approaches offered by iOS and Android, and decide which
provides the greatest overall benefit for our own specific needs.

Those who suggest that only one must exist and the other is completely
wrong present a position which is as impossible as it is undesirable.

I don't think anyone wants to see a mobile world where only one company
decides what all of us can and cannot do. Competition is healthy, for
us as end-users and even for the competitors themselves, since it keeps
them doing their best work.

Both iOS and Android are going to be around for a while.

We can pick the one we like most, and enjoy it. We can even use them both.

As LiveCode developers we get to enjoy it all, immune to the whims of
any single OS vendor.

--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World
LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv

Re: new iPhone 4s

Sorry Jacque, I get confused with the alpha vs numeric versions of Android
(as I do with Apple OS X versions!)  My phone is running 2.3.3, which I
THINK is Gingerbread but not sure.

Also, on the Skype issue, I've read that Skype is a huge battery hog so good
to get rid of it if you're not using it. Also on battery usage, it's
recommended to keep WiFi switched on permanently since it uses much less
battery than the cell data service.  I kinda hate doing that since I'm
forced to pay $30/month to use the cell data service!

Pete
Molly's Revenge http://www.mollysrevenge.com




On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 11:09 AM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.comwrote:

 On 10/5/11 12:56 PM, Pete wrote:

 You can reduce the first 4 steps to 1 by creating a shortcut to Running
 Services.


 Can I do it with native Froyo?

 I s

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Re: new iPhone 4s

2011-10-05 Thread Andre Garzia

 The cool thing is we have a choice.  We can evaluate the trade-offs
 inherent in the approaches offered by iOS and Android, and decide which
 provides the greatest overall benefit for our own specific needs.
 e http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


All Hail WebOS

oops... wrong thread, enough fanboyism... :D



-- 
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Re: new iPhone 4s

2011-10-05 Thread Warren Samples


On 10/05/2011 11:34 AM, Colin Holgate wrote:

On Oct 5, 2011, at 10:31 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:


* It requires lots of touches to do simple things.


please let me know if there is a quicker way!



Android:

1. Touch the Clock in the lower right.
2. In the popup that appears there are some sliders to the right. Touch those.
3. In the popup that appears, touch Settings at the bottom.
4. Touch Applications in the list on the left.
5. Touch Manage applications at the top of the list on the right.
6. In the next screen, touch Running on the right.
7. This next step can take a while, because it lists all of the processes 
running. Scroll through the list to find the app you want to close, and touch 
that.
8. There may be more than one sub process listed. Touch Stop for each one.
9. You're back at the previous list now, scroll until you find the next app you 
want to close. Touch Stop.
10. If greeted with a Stop system service? dialog, touch OK.
11. Repeat steps 9 and 10 for each of the other apps you want to close.



On my Samsung Exhibit, I press and hold the Home button which floats a 
window showing recently used applications as well as a button which 
opens the task manager where I can kill any open apps all at once or one 
at a time.


Warren

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Re: new iPhone 4s

Nice, I didn't know about the long press on the Home button.  On my HTC
Incredible, that does show the recent apps but there isn't a button to get
to the Task Manager (unless I used it recently of course).  I can also get a
list of recent apps by pulling down the Notifications bar but, once again,
no button to open task manager.

Maybe it's Android version dependant?

Pete
Molly's Revenge http://www.mollysrevenge.com




On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 12:40 PM, Warren Samples war...@warrensweb.uswrote:


 On my Samsung Exhibit, I press and hold the Home button which floats a
 window showing recently used applications as well as a button which opens
 the task manager where I can kill any open apps all at once or one at a
 time.

 Warren

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Re: new iPhone 4s

Based on the feedback here, and knowing I can't wait another 16 months for
Apple to announce a competitive phone, I visited the ATT store today. As a
side note, when Apple first introduced the iPhone 4, Android had only 9% of the
smartphone market. Now, only 16 months later, it has passed Apple's 27% with an
almost 44% share. Wow! Talk about growth and adoption rate.
http://www.slashgear.com/comscore-android-nears-44-of-us-smartphone-market-share-05185688/

And regarding Apple's lackluster performance yesterday, even the Apple fans
agree:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/10/05/apples_iphone_4s_event_seen_lacking_panache_allowing_android_to_gain.html

The trend is clear. For a short time, Apple owned the market in Smartphones,
but no longer. Apples tablet marketshare has dropped another 20 points over the
past year. Apple's incredible designs and features have been copied and many
eclipsed by the competition-- and for a lower price. Those who are brand loyal
stick with Apple. Those who are value and feature conscious will migrate.

Back to ATT. The salesperson told me how surprised he was to see the many of
iPhone users asking the same questions today about Android smartphones. And
here's the rub: whether you agree with him, or me, the fact is when I switch to
Android, I take a whole lot of folks with me. I have 5 iPhone users on my ATT
plan. I influence many other close relatives and family members who look to me
to provide advice on these sort of difficult decisions. I also have quite an
active social media profile. I suspect there are also many leading edge
consumers who are considering a switch which will affect others similarly.

So, my prediction. I believe within 3 years of Jobs not being chairman, iOS
devices will be in the 30% marketshare for both tablets and phones OR Apple
will begin licensing iOS to other manufacturers.

Re: new iPhone 4s

A quicker way would to use a widget, something iOS does not support. As long as 
we're looking at workflow and use cases, here is the only way I know how to 
simply add a folder to my photos collection:

1. Dock my iPad/iPhone to my desktop computer
2. Wait for it to sync, and install an OS update (30-45 min)
2a. restart iDevice and hope it resumes correctly. If it doesn't (has happened 
to me on numerous occasions) wipe device and reinstall new iOS and sync again, 
while waving a dead chicken above the device for good pluck!
3. Use iTunes to create a folder for photos.
4. un dock and enjoy the new folder!

Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc

On Oct 5, 2011, at 11:34 AM, Colin Holgate co...@verizon.net wrote:

 As an example if this, here's the standard built in way I've found to close a 
 few apps (and please let me know if there is a quicker way!):
 
 iOS: double press the Home button, press and hold on any icon, then touch the 
 X to close any of the apps you want to close.
 
 Android:
 
 1. Touch the Clock in the lower right.
 2. In the popup that appears there are some sliders to the right. Touch those.
 3. In the popup that appears, touch Settings at the bottom.
 4. Touch Applications in the list on the left.
 5. Touch Manage applications at the top of the list on the right.
 6. In the next screen, touch Running on the right.
 7. This next step can take a while, because it lists all of the processes 
 running. Scroll through the list to find the app you want to close, and touch 
 that.
 8. There may be more than one sub process listed. Touch Stop for each one.
 9. You're back at the previous list now, scroll until you find the next app 
 you want to close. Touch Stop.
 10. If greeted with a Stop system service? dialog, touch OK.
 11. Repeat steps 9 and 10 for each of the other apps you want to close.
 
 I have installed Advanced Task Killer, which does allow me to quickly close 
 all the processes I want, but I'm only comparing the standard features here.
 
 
 
 
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Re: new iPhone 4s

2011-10-05 Thread Dave McKee

What is rate of return on iPhone 4 vs competitive solution ? And same question
as it applies to an iOS app vs ?

Hodie Non Cras

On 2011-10-05, at 4:55 PM, Chipp Walters ch...@altuit.com wrote:

Based on the feedback here, and knowing I can't wait another 16 months for
Apple to announce a competitive phone, I visited the ATT store today. As a
side note, when Apple first introduced the iPhone 4, Android had only 9% of
the smartphone market. Now, only 16 months later, it has passed Apple's 27%
with an almost 44% share. Wow! Talk about growth and adoption rate.
http://www.slashgear.com/comscore-android-nears-44-of-us-smartphone-market-share-05185688/

The trend is clear. For a short time, Apple owned the market in Smartphones,
but no longer. Apples tablet marketshare has dropped another 20 points over
the past year. Apple's incredible designs and features have been copied and
many eclipsed by the competition-- and for a lower price. Those who are brand
loyal stick with Apple. Those who are value and feature conscious will
migrate.

Back to ATT. The salesperson told me how surprised he was to see the many of
iPhone users asking the same questions today about Android smartphones. And
here's the rub: whether you agree with him, or me, the fact is when I switch
to Android, I take a whole lot of folks with me. I have 5 iPhone users on my
ATT plan. I influence many other close relatives and family members who look
to me to provide advice on these sort of difficult decisions. I also have
quite an active social media profile. I suspect there are also many leading
edge consumers who are considering a switch which will affect others
similarly.

Re: new iPhone 4s

2011-10-05 Thread Admin

  

And on Android, just use a filemanager to create a folder. Takes
about 5 seconds. 

Mike 

On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 16:17:27 -0500, Chipp
Walters wrote: 

 A quicker way would to use a widget, something iOS
does not support. As long as we're looking at workflow and use cases,
here is the only way I know how to simply add a folder to my photos
collection:
 
 1. Dock my iPad/iPhone to my desktop computer
 2. Wait
for it to sync, and install an OS update (30-45 min)
 2a. restart
iDevice and hope it resumes correctly. If it doesn't (has happened to me
on numerous occasions) wipe device and reinstall new iOS and sync again,
while waving a dead chicken above the device for good pluck!
 3. Use
iTunes to create a folder for photos.
 4. un dock and enjoy the new
folder!
 
 Chipp Walters
 CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc
 
 On Oct
5, 2011, at 11:34 AM, Colin Holgate wrote:
 
 As an example if this,
here's the standard built in way I've found to close a few apps (and
please let me know if there is a quicker way!): iOS: double press the
Home button, press and hold on any icon, then touch the X to close any
of the apps you want to close. Android: 1. Touch the Clock in the lower
right. 2. In the popup that appears there are some sliders to the right.
Touch those. 3. In the popup that appears, touch Settings at the bottom.
4. Touch Applications in the list on the left. 5. Touch Manage
applications at the top of the list on the right. 6. In the next screen,
touch Running on the right. 7. This next step can take a while, because
it lists all of the processes running. Scroll through the list to find
the app you want to close, and touch that. 8. There may be more than one
sub process listed. Touch Stop for each one. 9. You're back at the
previous list now, scroll until you find the next app you want to close.
Touch Stop. 10. If greeted with a Stop system service? dialog, touch
OK. 11. Repeat steps 9 and 10 for each of the other apps you want to
close. I have installed Advanced Task Killer, which does allow me to
quickly close all the processes I want, but I'm only comparing the
standard features here. ___
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Re: new iPhone 4s

Do you mean Albums? You can touch the Album tab, Edit, New Album, then go to 
your photos and pick ones to add to that album.


On Oct 5, 2011, at 5:17 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

 A quicker way would to use a widget, something iOS does not support. As long 
 as we're looking at workflow and use cases, here is the only way I know how 
 to simply add a folder to my photos collection:

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Re: new iPhone 4s

Chipp wrote:

 here is the only way I know how to simply add a folder to my photos 
 collection:
 
 1. Dock my iPad/iPhone to my desktop computer

Really? This is how I do it:

1) Open Photos app on the device
2) Touch the Albums button
3) Touch the Add button
4) Name the album

 2. Wait for it to sync, and install an OS update (30-45 min)

At least Apple releases OS updates on a regular basis. On Android many devices 
are stuck on old versions of the OS, never to be updated to take advantage of 
the (supposed) benefits of the platform.

Gerry
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RE: new iPhone 4s

2011-10-05 Thread John Dixon

I suspect, after reading your earlier post, that your 'downer' on Apple's new
phone seems to be that it did not carry the number '5' in its title… As
Shakespeare asked, 'What's in a name? That which we call a rose, by any other
name would smell as sweet.

Don't forget, the iphone 4 has not been around for that long… Lots of people
who carry contracts on their iphones still have a long time to wait before they
would be able to upgrade their device.. Calling the new iPhone '4s' might just
turn out to be a very clever decision economically since a lot of people might
be 'miffed' that completely new model has appeared and that they are still
somewhere in the middle of the term of their contract.

I think that the new iPhone is excellent, improvements in the processor being
used, a new operating system iOS 5, 8 megapixels in the camera, longer battery
life, hopefully with the antenna being able to switch between signals, err…
perhaps it's a 4G handset ! … Here in the UK the '4s' will go on sale in a few
days time at a lower price than the iPhone 4 by £12… the cost of an iPhone 4
has fallen by £ 72…

Or perhaps your present iPhone has just stopped working will the arrival of its
new cousin…

Thankfully, this to o a liveCode programmer this should not really matter one
iota as Edinburgh provide you with the ability to write apps for both the Apple
and Android device offerings ? It's a phone, does it really matter ?
Dixie
Subject: Re: new iPhone 4s
From: ch...@altuit.com
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 15:55:29 -0500
To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com

Based on the feedback here, and knowing I can't wait another 16 months for
Apple to announce a competitive phone, I visited the ATT store today. As a
side note, when Apple first introduced the iPhone 4, Android had only 9% of
the smartphone market. Now, only 16 months later, it has passed Apple's 27%
with an almost 44% share. Wow! Talk about growth and adoption rate.
http://www.slashgear.com/comscore-android-nears-44-of-us-smartphone-market-share-05185688/

The trend is clear. For a short time, Apple owned the market in Smartphones,
but no longer. Apples tablet marketshare has dropped another 20 points over
the past year. Apple's incredible designs and features have been copied and
many eclipsed by the competition-- and for a lower price. Those who are brand
loyal stick with Apple. Those who are value and feature conscious will
migrate.

Back to ATT. The salesperson told me how surprised he was to see the many of
iPhone users asking the same questions today about Android smartphones. And
here's the rub: whether you agree with him, or me, the fact is when I switch
to Android, I take a whole lot of folks with me. I have 5 iPhone users on my
ATT plan. I influence many other close relatives and family members who look
to me to provide advice on these sort of difficult decisions. I also have
quite an active social media profile. I suspect there are also many leading
edge consumers who are considering a switch which will affect others
similarly.

Re: new iPhone 4s

In Android's defense, they did already have the over the air system updating 
working. That's a nice new addition to iOS 5. Also, they come out if the blue! 
Acer tend to be behind others in updating their systems, so it was a surprise 
when I got given 3.2 the other day.

 
On Oct 5, 2011, at 5:39 PM, Gerry Orkin wrote:

 At least Apple releases OS updates on a regular basis. On Android many 
 devices are stuck on old versions of the OS, never to be updated to take 
 advantage of the (supposed) benefits of the platform.

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Re: new iPhone 4s

No such feature on my iPad2 or my iPhone4. You must be using a much newer iOS 
than I- (perhaps beta). As I said, I tend more towards the, if it ain't broke, 
don't fix it theory when working with iOS devices as I (and some of my Windows 
cohorts) had a very precarious time installing new versions and virtually any 
connect takes me 30 minutes. So, let's just say I've learned to live with the 
1000 pictures in my single Camera Roll.

If indeed this now works, it's nice to see it only took Apple a year and a half 
to add this fairly standard feature. BTW, do you know how to transfer a 15+ Mb 
Keynote file from your iPad? You can't email it, and unless you've a paid for 
MobileMe account, it's very, very difficult and require almost as many steps as 
sharing a simple rev iOS app with a friend.

Just wondering, how does one share a Rev app on Android? I know it's a huge 
pain to ad hoc share an app on iTunes-- I have done that before.

Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc

On Oct 5, 2011, at 4:38 PM, Colin Holgate co...@verizon.net wrote:

 Do you mean Albums? You can touch the Album tab, Edit, New Album, then go to 
 your photos and pick ones to add to that album.
 
 
 On Oct 5, 2011, at 5:17 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:
 
 A quicker way would to use a widget, something iOS does not support. As long 
 as we're looking at workflow and use cases, here is the only way I know how 
 to simply add a folder to my photos collection:
 
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Re: new iPhone 4s

Dixie,

Does it really matter?

Altuit has tried unsuccessfully for the past 60 days to purchase an enterprise
license. Apple has required our company to submit a DB rating, then they've
asked for our Articles of Incorporation. We've been stuck there for quite
awhile. I'm told there is also an interview process where you are grilled about
the application you're designing.

We've decided to finally give up and let's just require all agents to use
Androids. The requirements application for developing Enterprise apps for
Androids are... ZIP. Just develop, compile, and away you go. So, I guess it
does matter to some.

Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc

On Oct 5, 2011, at 4:41 PM, John Dixon dixo...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:

I suspect, after reading your earlier post, that your 'downer' on Apple's
new phone seems to be that it did not carry the number '5' in its title… As
Shakespeare asked, 'What's in a name? That which we call a rose, by any
other name would smell as sweet.

Don't forget, the iphone 4 has not been around for that long… Lots of people
who carry contracts on their iphones still have a long time to wait before
they would be able to upgrade their device.. Calling the new iPhone '4s'
might just turn out to be a very clever decision economically since a lot of
people might be 'miffed' that completely new model has appeared and that they
are still somewhere in the middle of the term of their contract.

I think that the new iPhone is excellent, improvements in the processor being
used, a new operating system iOS 5, 8 megapixels in the camera, longer
battery life, hopefully with the antenna being able to switch between
signals, err… perhaps it's a 4G handset ! … Here in the UK the '4s' will go
on sale in a few days time at a lower price than the iPhone 4 by £12… the
cost of an iPhone 4 has fallen by £ 72…

Or perhaps your present iPhone has just stopped working will the arrival of
its new cousin…

Thankfully, this to o a liveCode programmer this should not really matter one
iota as Edinburgh provide you with the ability to write apps for both the
Apple and Android device offerings ? It's a phone, does it really matter ?
Dixie
Subject: Re: new iPhone 4s
From: ch...@altuit.com
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 15:55:29 -0500
To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com

Based on the feedback here, and knowing I can't wait another 16 months for
Apple to announce a competitive phone, I visited the ATT store today. As a
side note, when Apple first introduced the iPhone 4, Android had only 9% of
the smartphone market. Now, only 16 months later, it has passed Apple's 27%
with an almost 44% share. Wow! Talk about growth and adoption rate.
http://www.slashgear.com/comscore-android-nears-44-of-us-smartphone-market-share-05185688/

The trend is clear. For a short time, Apple owned the market in Smartphones,
but no longer. Apples tablet marketshare has dropped another 20 points over
the past year. Apple's incredible designs and features have been copied and
many eclipsed by the competition-- and for a lower price. Those who are
brand loyal stick with Apple. Those who are value and feature conscious will
migrate.

Back to ATT. The salesperson told me how surprised he was to see the many
of iPhone users asking the same questions today about Android smartphones.
And here's the rub: whether you agree with him, or me, the fact is when I
switch to Android, I take a whole lot of folks with me. I have 5 iPhone
users on my ATT plan. I influence many other close relatives and family
members who look to me to provide advice on these sort of difficult
decisions. I also have quite an active social media profile. I suspect there
are also many leading edge consumers who are considering a switch which will
affect others similarly.

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Re: new iPhone 4s

Hmmm.

A quick search on this issue shows:
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xlzh856Guxgv=Xlzh856Guxggl=US

I'm still not sure this feature is available on non beta versions of iOS. Do
you know?

On Wednesday, October 5, 2011, Gerry Orkin gerry.or...@gmail.com wrote:
 Chipp wrote:

 here is the only way I know how to simply add a folder to my photos
collection:

 1. Dock my iPad/iPhone to my desktop computer

 Really? This is how I do it:

 1) Open Photos app on the device
 2) Touch the Albums button
 3) Touch the Add button
 4) Name the album

 2. Wait for it to sync, and install an OS update (30-45 min)

 At least Apple releases OS updates on a regular basis. On Android many
devices are stuck on old versions of the OS, never to be updated to take
advantage of the (supposed) benefits of the platform.

 Gerry
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Re: new iPhone 4s


On 10/5/11 4:39 PM, Gerry Orkin wrote:


At least Apple releases OS updates on a regular basis. On Android
many devices are stuck on old versions of the OS, never to be updated
to take advantage of the (supposed) benefits of the platform.


Definitely a down side for Android. I'm stuck at 2.2, many versions 
behind the latest. My tablet was obsolete about 4 months after purchase.


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Re: new iPhone 4s

Chipp

In what way is your refusal to keep your iOS devices (and knowledge of their 
capabilities) up-to-date a problem with the iPhone? 

By your own measure iOS is (apparently) broken, and yet you refuse to fix the 
problem because if it ain't broke, don't fix it? And it well might be a 
feature in iOS 5 - as a registered Apple developer you should know that.

Transferring a 15mb Keynote file will be trivial with iCloud. You keep 
complaining that the iPhone is a turd because it doesn't have a feature that 
it, um, has. 

Your problem with deploying an enterprise app is sad, but it's hardly a reason 
for ordinary consumers to buy Android over iOS. It may be a problem for you, 
but it isn't for most developers.


Gerry


On 06/10/2011, at 8:57 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

 No such feature on my iPad2 or my iPhone4. You must be using a much newer iOS 
 than I- (perhaps beta). As I said, I tend more towards the, if it ain't 
 broke, don't fix it theory when working with iOS devices as I (and some of 
 my Windows cohorts) had a very precarious time installing new versions and 
 virtually any connect takes me 30 minutes. So, let's just say I've learned to 
 live with the 1000 pictures in my single Camera Roll.

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Re: new iPhone 4s


On 10/5/11 4:57 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:


Just wondering, how does one share a Rev app on Android? I know it's
a huge pain to ad hoc share an app on iTunes-- I have done that
before.


You can share Android apps like any file. Email, Dropbox, internet 
download, cabled computer transfer, and with the right file manager, 
over a LAN.


Note that this introduces security issues if you are downloading new 
apps, particularly if they are not from one of the established markets. 
Ease of use has trade-offs.


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Re: new iPhone 4s

Set up to do that on iOS took me less than an hour, and it takes a new ad hoc 
user about 10 minutes to add themselves to the distribution group once I've 
issued an invite. Actually distributing an ad hoc build takes me...oh...5 
minutes? A huge pain, I agree...

Gerry


On 06/10/2011, at 8:57 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

 Just wondering, how does one share a Rev app on Android? I know it's a huge 
 pain to ad hoc share an app on iTunes-- I have done that before.

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Re: iOS file management/distro (new iPhone 4s)

2011-10-05 Thread Curry Kenworthy



Howdy,

Chipp, I'm going to share this with you and anyone else in case it may 
be useful. Having a firm conviction that I should ultimately control any 
hardware I purchase, and also interested in potential bottlenecks of 
Apple's distribution system, I searched some time ago and saw this:


http://www.i-funbox.com/

Not an inspiring name I know, but it looks promising, and includes app 
install abilities, perhaps the ability to install apps without official 
blessing and without jailbreaking, if I understand the description. If 
so, it might be useful in some scenarios, technically that is. (Terms 
could be another matter.)


Here's another notable software for file management:

http://www.macroplant.com/iexplorer/

Disclaimer: Haven't had time to test either of these yet.

Best wishes,

Curry

===


Altuit has tried unsuccessfully for the past 60 days to purchase an enterprise 
license. Apple has required our company to submit a DB rating, then they've 
asked for our Articles of Incorporation. We've been stuck there for quite awhile. 
I'm told there is also an interview process where you are grilled about the 
application you're designing.

We've decided to finally give up and let's just require all agents to use 
Androids. The requirements application for developing Enterprise apps for 
Androids are... ZIP. Just develop, compile, and away you go. So, I guess it 
does matter to some.

Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc





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Re: new iPhone 4s

For you, maybe. Here's how I build for my customers:

Mac, PC, and soon, Android:

Here's the app. Don't worry about any sort of license. And.. don't worry
about updates. We use our own self-updating architecture, refined over
hundreds of apps and thousands of instances, to instantly update your
application whenever it is needed. Using MagicCarpet: Time to revision = 25
seconds (the time of an FTP upload). Now everyone is up-to-date next time
they launch the application.

It's possible I can update an App several times a day. Five updates take me
all of 3 minutes or less.

But for iPhone, please wait until we can receive the correct data from you
(UUID) to add you to the ad hoc list, then we can create a new build (1 hour
by your measure, more by ours), and you should be good to go in less than 24
hours UNLESS we have to put it in the AppStore, then it will take a week.

How funny you try and defend the one area which even the Mac faithful all
agree is a POS. Great job.

On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Gerry Orkin gerry.or...@gmail.com wrote:

 Set up to do that on iOS took me less than an hour, and it takes a new ad
 hoc user about 10 minutes to add themselves to the distribution group once
 I've issued an invite. Actually distributing an ad hoc build takes
 me...oh...5 minutes? A huge pain, I agree...

 Gerry


 On 06/10/2011, at 8:57 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

  Just wondering, how does one share a Rev app on Android? I know it's a
 huge pain to ad hoc share an app on iTunes-- I have done that before.

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Re: new iPhone 4s

I don't use enterprise distribution so I can't comment on that - it does sound 
a pain, and I'm not defending it - read my message again. My point was that 
your problems with that have NO bearing on whether the iPhone is or is not a 
better choice for typical users. 

As for my method of distribution - it really does take less than an hour to set 
up, and ten minutes max to add a new ad hoc user.

Gerry

On 06/10/2011, at 12:22 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

 How funny you try and defend the one area which even the Mac faithful all
 agree is a POS. Great job.

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Re: new iPhone 4s

How are you updating your apps? Do you users automatically receive updates
every time they launch their app?

I have been trying to update my iPad for 2+ hours now, and hopefully it will
be done soon and I'll have the new add folder feature (or is it on beta
software only?). And THAT is the reason I don't update so often-- it just
takes TOO long. I also don't update my Win 7 computer every patch released,
nor did I update my Mac to Lion just yet. Like many, I tend to 'wait a bit
for the dust to settle.'

You misconstrued my lame attempt at making a point. The point is NOT whether
the iPhone is a better choice for typical users. My point was a rebuttal to
Colin's criticism of Androids workflow. Anytime you have to hook your mobile
device to a desktop computer just to manage it, is IMO, a HUGE workflow
issue.

Let's stop this back and forth. I understand you really like the iPhone-- we
can both agree on that. I have one. And, we can own one companies model and
still appreciate features in another companies model. There was a time I
used to design computers for all these guys and couldn't afford to be fans
of only Apple, or Compaq, or Dell, or Toshiba, or IBM or Sony. I suppose
that is why I now try and look at all these models and brands from as
objective viewpoint as possible.

On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 8:37 PM, Gerry Orkin gerry.or...@gmail.com wrote:

 I don't use enterprise distribution so I can't comment on that - it does
 sound a pain, and I'm not defending it - read my message again. My point was
 that your problems with that have NO bearing on whether the iPhone is or is
 not a better choice for typical users.

 As for my method of distribution - it really does take less than an hour to
 set up, and ten minutes max to add a new ad hoc user.

 Gerry

 On 06/10/2011, at 12:22 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

  How funny you try and defend the one area which even the Mac faithful all
  agree is a POS. Great job.

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Re: new iPhone 4s

Just updated my iPad to the latest iOS and there's not any New Album feature. 
You must be using a developer beta version.

Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc

On Oct 5, 2011, at 4:38 PM, Colin Holgate co...@verizon.net wrote:

 Do you mean Albums? You can touch the Album tab, Edit, New Album, then go to 
 your photos and pick ones to add to that album.
 

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Re: new iPhone 4s

You should look forward to another couple of update hours on the 12th.


On Oct 5, 2011, at 11:20 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

 Just updated my iPad to the latest iOS and there's not any New Album 
 feature. You must be using a developer beta version.

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Re: new iPhone 4s

 
 How are you updating your apps? Do you users automatically receive updates
 every time they launch their app?

Yes. I have about 45 users using a custom app that downloads updates from my 
own server on startup. The mechanism took a day or two to work out but it works 
flawlessly.  

 I have been trying to update my iPad for 2+ hours now, and hopefully it will
 be done soon and I'll have the new add folder feature (or is it on beta
 software only?).

iOS 5 has this capability - you are eligible to download the GM and install it 
on your device(s). Apple has solved your problem. 

 And THAT is the reason I don't update so often-- it just
 takes TOO long.

iOS 5 includes over the air OS updates. Again, Apple to the rescue.

 Anytime you have to hook your mobile
 device to a desktop computer just to manage it, is IMO, a HUGE workflow
 issue.

iOS 5: problem solved.

 why I now try and look at all these models and brands from as
 objective viewpoint as possible.

I'm not objective at all, and neither are you :)

Cheers

Gerry


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Re: new iPhone 4s

Yup. Chris had mentioned to me earlier it's a good idea to update everything 
now, so the iOS5 update would go more smoothly-- as skipping versions doesn't 
get tested as much.

Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc

On Oct 5, 2011, at 10:31 PM, Colin Holgate co...@verizon.net wrote:

 You should look forward to another couple of update hours on the 12th.
 
 
 On Oct 5, 2011, at 11:20 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:
 
 Just updated my iPad to the latest iOS and there's not any New Album 
 feature. You must be using a developer beta version.
 
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Re: new iPhone 4s


On Oct 5, 2011, at 10:49 PM, Gerry Orkin gerry.or...@gmail.com wrote:

 
 How are you updating your apps? Do you users automatically receive updates
 every time they launch their app?
 
 Yes. I have about 45 users using a custom app that downloads updates from my 
 own server on startup. The mechanism took a day or two to work out but it 
 works flawlessly.  

I suspect you keep all this very quiet and don't tell the iOS police, for if 
they knew, they would certainly pull your license...
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new iPhone 4s

watching apple announcement  on CNN on the iPad

Just announced:   iPhone 4s

new A5 dual core processor
7x graphics speed
real-time rendering in a game shown

new battery
8 hours talk time on 3g
10 hours video

14.4 mb  wifi performance

more next post

WORLD PHONE NOW

2 antenna technologies

camera

new sensor 8 megapixel

3264 2448 60% bigger

backside illumination more light
hybrid IR filter

five element lens

f 2.4 aperture

A5 image processor on chip

26% better white balance

timing 1.1 second click to file
.5 for second photo

depth of field


video recording:
HD 1080 p resolution
noise reduction


airplay

airplay mirroring


voice feature

Siri - intelligent assistant

fast. smart, AI

plain english question - no learning

meaning behind words

what is the hourly forecast
do I need a raincoat today.
what time is it in Paris?
understands words and meanings.
wake me up tomorrow at 6am
how's the NASDAQ doing today?
find me a great greek restaurants in Palo Alto. (yelp)
give me directions to hoover tower (maps)

reads text messages

search web: search wickipedia for Neil armstrong
currency conversion

play any song  (thru the cloud)

compose and dictate email



[ sqb comment - I will be really impressed when it can do this in Portuguese
! ]


-- 



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San Francisco Ca. USA

more about sqb  http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar
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Re: new iPhone 4s

2011-10-04 Thread Joe Lewis Wilkins

Sounds great Stephen, but it doesn't replace Viagra (yet!)

Joe Wilkins

On Oct 4, 2011, at 12:03 PM, stephen barncard wrote:

 watching apple announcement  on CNN on the iPad
 
 Just announced:   iPhone 4s
 
 new A5 dual core processor
 7x graphics speed
 real-time rendering in a game shown
 
 new battery
 8 hours talk time on 3g
 10 hours video
 
 14.4 mb  wifi performance
 
 more next post
 
 WORLD PHONE NOW
 
 2 antenna technologies
 
 camera
 
 new sensor 8 megapixel
 
 3264 2448 60% bigger
 
 backside illumination more light
 hybrid IR filter
 
 five element lens
 
 f 2.4 aperture
 
 A5 image processor on chip
 
 26% better white balance
 
 timing 1.1 second click to file
 .5 for second photo
 
 depth of field
 
 
 video recording:
 HD 1080 p resolution
 noise reduction
 
 
 airplay
 
 airplay mirroring
 
 
 voice feature
 
 Siri - intelligent assistant
 
 fast. smart, AI
 
 plain english question - no learning
 
 meaning behind words
 
 what is the hourly forecast
 do I need a raincoat today.
 what time is it in Paris?
 understands words and meanings.
 wake me up tomorrow at 6am
 how's the NASDAQ doing today?
 find me a great greek restaurants in Palo Alto. (yelp)
 give me directions to hoover tower (maps)
 
 reads text messages
 
 search web: search wickipedia for Neil armstrong
 currency conversion
 
 play any song  (thru the cloud)
 
 compose and dictate email
 
 
 
 [ sqb comment - I will be really impressed when it can do this in Portuguese
 ! ]
 
 
 -- 
 
 
 
 Stephen Barncard
 San Francisco Ca. USA
 
 more about sqb  http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar
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Re: new iPhone 4s

2011-10-04 Thread Warren Samples


On 10/04/2011 02:13 PM, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:

but it doesn't replace Viagra



I'm sure there are some...


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Re: new iPhone 4s

Tim Cook and Phil Schiller did a good presentation today.
Cook could be mistaken as Jobs' older similarly birdlike, incredibly thin
brother.

one more thing: the prices:

4s 16gig - $200/2year
4s 32gig - $300/2
4s 64gig - $400/2

4   8 gig - $99/2
3Gs 8 gig free with plan

still selling the older phone

pre-order date Oct 7
in stores Oct 14   (good luck)

On 4 October 2011 12:03, stephen barncard
stephenrevoluti...@barncard.comwrote:

 watching apple announcement  on CNN on the iPad



Stephen Barncard
San Francisco Ca. USA

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Re: new iPhone 4s

politics, religion, cheese and sex

On 4 October 2011 12:19, Warren Samples war...@warrensweb.us wrote:

 On 10/04/2011 02:13 PM, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:

 but it doesn't replace Viagra



 I'm sure there are some...



Stephen Barncard
San Francisco Ca. USA

more about sqb  http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar
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Re: new iPhone 4s

2011-10-04 Thread Andre Garzia

are we moderated yet?

On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 4:22 PM, stephen barncard 
stephenrevoluti...@barncard.com wrote:

 politics, religion, cheese and sex

 On 4 October 2011 12:19, Warren Samples war...@warrensweb.us wrote:

  On 10/04/2011 02:13 PM, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:
 
  but it doesn't replace Viagra
 
 
 
  I'm sure there are some...
 
 
 
 Stephen Barncard
 San Francisco Ca. USA

 more about sqb  http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar
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http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
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new iPhone 4s

2011-10-04 Thread Chipp Walters

Apple iPhone 4s-- ugh. All psyched up about the iPhone 5, and Apple lays
this turd. So disappointing. Jeez, didn't take them long to screw things up
now that Jobs is gone.

Now, I'm considering upgrading my iPhone 4 to Android. Anyone have
experience with both and can offer advice?

-- 
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CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.
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Re: new iPhone 4s

2011-10-04 Thread Colin Holgate

If they had called it the iPhone 5, everyone would still be impressed.  The 
iPhone 4 is an amazing phone, and the iPhone 4S is better in almost every way 
it could be. So that makes it be a bit better than you're suggesting.


On Oct 4, 2011, at 10:44 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

 Apple iPhone 4s-- ugh. All psyched up about the iPhone 5, and Apple lays
 this turd. So disappointing. Jeez, didn't take them long to screw things up
 now that Jobs is gone.

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Re: new iPhone 4s

2011-10-04 Thread Roger Eller

On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:44 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

 Apple iPhone 4s-- ugh. All psyched up about the iPhone 5, and Apple lays
 this turd. So disappointing. Jeez, didn't take them long to screw things up
 now that Jobs is gone.

 Now, I'm considering upgrading my iPhone 4 to Android. Anyone have
 experience with both and can offer advice?

 --
 Chipp Walters
 CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.


I don't have an iPhone, but when I first learned of ppl doing this, I loved
the idea.  You own the hardware, so install what you want.

http://lifehacker.com/5693309/how-to-install-android-on-an-iphone-in-six-easy-steps

˜Roger
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Re: new iPhone 4s

why is this phone a turd, Chipp? Tell us how you really feel.

I've got an old 3 (non-gs) now and planning an upgrade. The 3 IS a turd,
I'm no fan-boy, but I really don't want an Android.
I'm going to switch to Verizon anyway.

On 4 October 2011 19:44, Chipp Walters ch...@chipp.com wrote:

 Apple iPhone 4s-- ugh. All psyched up about the iPhone 5, and Apple lays
 this turd. So disappointing. Jeez, didn't take them long to screw things up
 now that Jobs is gone.

 Now, I'm considering upgrading my iPhone 4 to Android. Anyone have
 experience with both and can offer advice?

 --
 Chipp Walters
 CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.




-- 



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San Francisco Ca. USA

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Re: new iPhone 4s

2011-10-04 Thread Chipp Walters

C'mon guys! Haven't you been following the blogs and build up for iPhone 5?
it was pretty well known there was SUPPOSED to be a 4 and a 5, only they
just announced the 4.

Steven, yes the iPhone is a very nice device, only this version isn't all
that much different from a 4 (purely functional point of view). Yes, it is
faster, and has a bit nicer camera-- but that's about it. None of the edge
to edge glass or larger display the Androids tout. I get it. You really like
Apple stuff. I'm happy for you. I'm just asking those who have owned BOTH
for some insights to the plus and minuses of each product.

I find I no longer need much of the iPhone apps as they all exist in better
versions on my iPad. I was seriously considering getting the new iPhone 5
since my plan is up, but I certainly don't think I'll upgrade my 4 to a 4s.
Have you even looked at the Androids in the store? Their screen is
*significantly* larger than the 4. And I know the maps app is better on
Android, as is their native integration with all things Google (which I use
a LOT). And I know I'd much rather develop for Android than iOS- which is a
huge plus (offset by the huge minus of Rev not keeping feature parity
between the two).

On Tuesday, October 4, 2011, stephen barncard 
stephenrevoluti...@barncard.com wrote:
 why is this phone a turd, Chipp? Tell us how you really feel.

 I've got an old 3 (non-gs) now and planning an upgrade. The 3 IS a
turd,
 I'm no fan-boy, but I really don't want an Android.
 I'm going to switch to Verizon anyway.

 On 4 October 2011 19:44, Chipp Walters ch...@chipp.com wrote:

 Apple iPhone 4s-- ugh. All psyched up about the iPhone 5, and Apple lays
 this turd. So disappointing. Jeez, didn't take them long to screw things
up
 now that Jobs is gone.

 Now, I'm considering upgrading my iPhone 4 to Android. Anyone have
 experience with both and can offer advice?

 --
 Chipp Walters
 CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.




 --



 Stephen Barncard
 San Francisco Ca. USA

 more about sqb  http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar
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Re: new iPhone 4s

2011-10-04 Thread Admin

  

I owned a Apple Iphone 3g and my wife owns a touch 4 and the newest
touch with better video. 

I now own a HTC Evo (not the 3D one) with an
expanded battery. 

I also own an Android tablet and an Ipad2. 

OK,
where do I begin? 

First, I like the Ipad2 better for creating music
and editing video. EVERYTHING else is better on the Android (in this
case, a Acer Iconia A500 with 32GB ram). The Acer can play flash, has
more memory expandability, usb ports, gps, vibration, sensors all over
the place and an Nvidia dual core Tegra processor that allows me to play
PS3-like graphics smoothly and effortlessly. True HDMI out and can play
1080p video with no problems. True USB port on the Acer allows for tons
of expansion, such as keyboard and mouse, hubs, music hardware, etc. Now
that they have the camera expansion for the iPad2, you can also use a
hub, keyboard, etc. Both have wifi and blue tooth. I find itunes to be a
PAIN IN THE ASS. I find Android stores to be easier to use, find stuff
and the return policy is a bit easier. However, since there is little
policing of the Android stores, cream rises to the top but there is
plenty of crap as well. Apple maintains a iron grip on the apps, music,
etc, so their policies are militant in nature. I simply hate that. 

The
Ipad2 has a more clean and visceral experience - namely, it seems like
the hardware is a bit more responsive and fluid. The Acer has a perfect
screen and the touch sensitivity is great, but the Ipad2 seems to have
the edge here. 

Why do I talk about tablets when this is about phones?
Because the tablets are bigger phones, essentially. 

My Iphone was
great. Small, but great. It could not really play video that well, had
limited outputs until they built peripherals for the data port, but
still, just one data port. It makes a great, but bulky mp3 player, but
iTunes just kills it for me - you just cannot do things very easily.
It's just too much effort to simply put your own mp3 files on there. 

I
found the sound quality of the iphone to be acceptable - not amazing,
but good. The headphone jack was recessed, so some headphones did not
fit - not a good design decision. I like the headphone jack on the
bottom of the phone even less. 

Both the phones and tablets are thinner
than their Android cousins. They remain cool and work pretty well.
Battery life simply SUCKS. iphones and iTouch iPods do not have great
battery life and there is NO WAY to upgrade it or switch it out. When it
is dead, it's dead. The iPad2 is a bit better because the battery hold a
charge a bit more and when it is turned off, the battery lasts a long
time, but with heavy use, the battery drains quickly. On the Acer
Android pad, the battery lasts a good 20 hours with heavy use - MUCH
LONGER than the iPad2, but it does not hold a charge when off or in
sleep mode and the battery will drain - so iPad2 wins on the drain game,
but cannot outlast the Acer. 

Likewise, the HTC Evo is a PLEASURE to
use. The screen is massive, gorgeous and VERY sensitive to touch. The
sound quality is equally as good (it has Dolby Surround Sound) and can
play video GREAT. It even has a HDMI output just like the Acer, so you
can tote movies and videos around with you and watch on the big screen.
It plays flash and pretty much any technology that can play on Linux
will play on the HTC with limited exceptions. I am finding more and more
of the best apple apps finding their way to my HTC. The battery life
SUCKED big time on the HTC, but, unlike the iPhone, you can simply
remove it and buy a bigger one! I did. Now I have a massive 48 hours of
usage before I have to charge it. It now fits even better in my hand and
the added weight, though negligible, makes it feel more solid for some
weird reason. Thin and lightweight is not always a good thing, as I
found the iphone to be hard to hold for long periods and would slip out
of my grip. My HTC feels solid and never slips. 

Overall, I am very
pleased with my HTC Evo and will never go back to iphone. 

Mike 

On
Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:28:13 -0500, Chipp Walters wrote: 

 C'mon guys!
Haven't you been following the blogs and build up for iPhone 5?
 it was
pretty well known there was SUPPOSED to be a 4 and a 5, only they
 just
announced the 4.
 
 Steven, yes the iPhone is a very nice device, only
this version isn't all
 that much different from a 4 (purely functional
point of view). Yes, it is
 faster, and has a bit nicer camera-- but
that's about it. None of the edge
 to edge glass or larger display the
Androids tout. I get it. You really like
 Apple stuff. I'm happy for
you. I'm just asking those who have owned BOTH
 for some insights to
the plus and minuses of each product.
 
 I find I no longer need much
of the iPhone apps as they all exist in better
 versions on my iPad. I
was seriously considering getting the new iPhone 5
 since my plan is
up, but I certainly don't think I'll upgrade my 4 to a 4s.
 Have you
even looked at the Androids in the store? Their screen is

Re: new iPhone 4s

2011-10-04 Thread Gerry Orkin

Chipp wrote:

 it was pretty well known there was SUPPOSED to be a 4 and a 5, only they
 just announced the 4.

Supposed to be? According to whom? Apple, or the zillions of blogs and pundits 
and analysts? 

Don't blame Apple for not meeting your ill-informed expectations :)

Gerry
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Re: new iPhone 4s

2011-10-04 Thread Chipp Walters

Gerry,

No need to get personal. I suppose you're new about these parts. I'm asking
for opinions regarding the iPhone vs Android. I certainly wasn't asking your
opinion of my expectations. Clearly you're a fan of Apple. Good for you.

On Tuesday, October 4, 2011, Gerry Orkin gerry.or...@gmail.com wrote:
 Chipp wrote:

 it was pretty well known there was SUPPOSED to be a 4 and a 5, only they
 just announced the 4.

 Supposed to be? According to whom? Apple, or the zillions of blogs and
pundits and analysts?

 Don't blame Apple for not meeting your ill-informed expectations :)

 Gerry
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CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.
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Re: new iPhone 4s

2011-10-04 Thread Bill Vlahos

I haven't used an Android but the people at work who have personal ones say 
they like them but find that they are buggy and need to be restarted 
frequently. The ones that have them like them because they can tinker more with 
them but even they say we shouldn't support them. It reminds me of the people 
who want to build their own PCs.

We don't support Android because of malware, lack of controls, and poor 
security model.

I know people complain about no LTE on the iPhone but all the LTE phones have 
horrible battery life. I'll be more excited about LTE when it is more widely 
available. Right now it is pointless unless you live in one of the areas that 
have it.

The iPhones prior to the 4 had minimally acceptable battery life but the 4s are 
very good. For people who want even more extended life there are very nice 
battery packs that the iPhones slip into. These add a surprisingly small amount 
of weight and size and are very comfortable. I don't use them because I find 
the battery life to be plenty for me.

I think the defining features of the iPhone 4S are the improved performance and 
Siri voice features. If Siri just proves to be speech to text like Dragon 
Naturally Speaking or the feature on Android phones then it won't be a big deal 
at all. However, if it is more like the IBM Watson computer that won on 
Jeopardy then it will truly be revolutionary. I won't really be able to know 
until the 4S is out and I can try it.

I think the 4S is a lot better than you describe.

Bill Vlahos
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On Oct 4, 2011, at 7:44 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

 Apple iPhone 4s-- ugh. All psyched up about the iPhone 5, and Apple lays
 this turd. So disappointing. Jeez, didn't take them long to screw things up
 now that Jobs is gone.
 
 Now, I'm considering upgrading my iPhone 4 to Android. Anyone have
 experience with both and can offer advice?
 
 -- 
 Chipp Walters
 CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.
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Re: new iPhone 4s