Re: _[French]_Un_site_dédié_ à_Révolution

[Ludovic THEBAULT]

Le 1 juil. 05 à 01:20, Richard Gaskin a écrit :

I see no harm in making lists specifically for other languages,  
other than the overhead of maintaining them.


In the meantime, there are already Japanese and German discussion  
boards for Rev, included in the Links page at revJournal:



If you start a French list/discussion board I'll happily add it to  
that page.


The french list exists, but there is only one message by month !
here :   http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/revolutionfr/

We need more participants ! :)___
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Re: Using libSMTP to send an e-mail

[Eric Chatonet]

Hi Tim,

http://dark.unitz.ca/~shaosean/pages/development.htm

Le 1 juil. 05 à 03:45, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :

I'm trying to get to grips with using Shao Sean's libSMTP to send  
an e-mail.
I've so far had limited success, in that I can send a message, but  
all of
the TO,FROM,SUBJECT information is empty. Furthermore, the e-mails  
I have been
sending must look dodgy because my ISP keeps blocking my account  
after I use

libSMTP to send something!

I've been reading that there's
another library by Shao Sean to format the mail (libMail?), but I  
can't find

it to download anywhere.

So, I guess I'm wondering...

1. Can I get the libMail library? If so, where? And if not
2. How do I format the data I send using libSMTP so that e-mail  
clients will

understand it?


Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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Re: resume rev backdrop on top bug?

[Eric Chatonet]

Hi Marielle and Sivakatirswami,

Well known...
Entered as a bug by Klaus on 2001! Assigned to Tuviah Snyder.
Noted as major :-) and I am the only one who voted for...
In fact, as Rev is used by many educators who often need to "contain"  
their students, this feature might appear to be more important than  
in other dev environments. These developers should vote for this  
bug... or:


Last year I needed *absolutely* a backdrop for a very large app  
dedicated to seniors in order to let them wrapped in a cocoon  
especially designed for them...
I ended by creating the backdrop by myself with a simple modeless  
stack :-)
But it was not perfect: a little flash at mousedown with slow  
machines...


Le 30 juin 05 à 01:35, Marielle Lange a écrit :

Same here. Has been like that since 2.5... is still the case in  
2.6. I don't use
the backdrop much (for this reason), but any time I use it, that's  
exactly the
behaviour you describe (need to use the window menu as all stacks  
are *behind*

the backdrop after when going back and forth from another application.



Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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Re: weird influence of the gridsize and the grid on the drawing of squares by script

[Wouter]

Thanks Jeanne,

I agree with and appreciate your answer.
I wish this had been mentioned on the drag command page too.

Greetings,
Wouter


On 30 Jun 2005, at 05:02, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:


At 8:45 PM +0200 6/29/2005, Wouter wrote:

After reinvestigating bug 2683 for which Mark Waddingham asked a  
recipe,  the weird influence of the gridsize and the grid on the  
drawing of squares by script surfaced. Will it become an  
"undocumented feature" or is this a bug?  Anyway I didn't know  
until now.

1 new stack and 1 button with the following script will show:



Wouter, I don't think this is a bug although the doc for grid could  
be clearer. The drag command is supposed to emulate drawing with  
the mouse, so it should respect the grid.

--
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.jaedworks.com

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RE: TAOO/XOS for education

[MisterX]

Marielle,

There is nothing wrong with TAOO for education. As a matter of fact (usually
i pronounce this as smatofactly) my licensing terms (as i wish they would
be) is that TAOO be free for personal, non-commercial and non-for-profit
educational institutions. If this world needs anything, it's free education!
I've lived in the third world and i know that that is the main problem
there. 

Anyway, regarding your links, there's no worry about copying my stuff, as i
said, TAOO is a semantical OS, not lexical. Lexical analysis is a sub-part
of TAOO which i've only explored poorly so far. ;)

But any lexical database can be added to the semantical-resolver later for
further intelligence into the semantical operating workflow. he he... I can
think of a few features for that already ;)

The usage of TAOO into the lexical analysis subject is, however, definitely
a powerful feature in TAOO since any object can be broken down into
different views - like its keywords or as Dan Schaffer put it: an analytical
view of the object. 

Off Topic thought: I like Dan's term however it does limit the scope of
"views" since these can extend the object to other relationships out-of-file
or present a planning calendar for the user, etc... 

As far as funding, this is not necessary to enter the TAOO team. Im more
than willing to share TAOO's benefits and resources to those who want to
share in the code and help extend it in a consistent way (whether for
personal or professional use or not).

Hopefully, those who would like to tap into the resources of TAOO (and not
just in terms of OOP or the framework but in the many many scripts,
knowledgebases, and features this environment presents), can also help fund
it with a small (or big) donations in exchange for a license or depending on
their contribution to the project.

One interesting avenue for you Marielle, would be a lexical analyser
"Manager" module in Rev which can be plugged in anyone's stacks later. I
have a few modules like that for math, stats, time-related data analysis or
operations, charting, palettes, graphics, files, web-content, code
translation, etc... The best example available on this kind of module on
MonsieurX.com is the geometry Interface library. Alas there is no cool
palette for it yet (though this should be fixed when i release my new set of
toolbars.

My principle in TAOO is that if you share your libs, i'll share mine. Add it
all together, it's a win-win situation for everyone: you contribute a small
percentage and gain the whole access. This was my open-source idea back in
the late 80's... The only requisite is that is should be plug-eable into
Taoo and add some value to the users.

I'll send the URL once i've made a "technical overview and how to get
started" document and an eventual demo this weekend. I've gained lots of
valuable insights from Dan to which im only too grateful for making TAOO
continue - i almost abandonned it whence he gracefully stepped in ;)

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Marielle Lange
> Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 19:27
> To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Subject: TAOO/XOS for education
> 
> Hi Xavier,
> 
> Thanks very much for the reply and comments (should appear 
> soon on this list, hopefully). As expressed in a private 
> reply to you and to others previously, I am interested in 
> your framework in the context of the following projects, all 
> under a same hood:
> 
> 
> 
> (1) is operational (lexicall website)
> (2) and (3) on the list (eZyscript and eXercist projects) are 
> currently being developed by students. (4), (5), (6) 
> (ePictures, eBookmarks, eOntology) are there in terms of 
> content, but nowhere yet in terms of coding of the application.
> 
> I am currently trying to get funding... if successful, I 
> would prefer to develop this as free use (but, yes, 
> copyrighted). If unsuccessful, I may take a year or two off 
> my current job and go for a commercial project.
> 
> So, yes, please send me the files and so on. I will do my 
> best to give you constructive criticisms. (please use my 
> blueyonder email for this).
> 
> Nope, I am not copying your ideas. I had some of these 
> projects written as proposals before I even heard of 
> revolution... but revolution is the first software that gets 
> me thing that now, I have the right development environment 
> for these projects.
> 
> Marielle
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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor AND Endless ranting and rude insults AND other points

[Richard Gaskin]

M Young wrote:
Richard Gaskin Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:53:49 -0700: A lot of people from a 
wide range of programming backgrounds have learned Rev easily with the 
help of the folks here.
MY: Very true, however I find that the old x-talk hands on this list 
expect all new Rev users to be programming neophytes. "Dan [Shafer] 
coined the term "Inventive User" to describe people who use programs 
like Revolution to create solutions to their own problems without 
necessarily becoming professional programmers in the process." ( 
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest/Sponsors.htm )


Those are someone else's words, not mine.  The "low-hanging fruit" of 
refugees from other xTalks has pretty much been picked long ago.  If Rev 
is to grow it will come from two categories:


- The "inventive users" Dan talks about, tinkerers by nature who want to 
experience the joy of building useful things for themselves and others.


- Professional developers, who by virtue of being developers already 
have a current favorite language.


This makes for a difficult challenge in documenting Rev:  it must appeal 
to those with no previous programming experience at all, and must also 
appeal to those for whom Rev is a second (or third or fourth) language.


Every language has its indiosynchracies, but since Transcript is a 
proprietary language this multiplies the above documentation challenges 
by an order of magnitude.  There's a team at RunRev working on the docs 
year 'round, and they tend to get better with each release.  Dropping a 
note into Bugzilla about errors and ommissions helps guide that process, 
and the folks at RR definitely read this list.


There are some orientation materials for programmers familiar with 
languages like C++ and Java -- worth at least a skim:



For everything else there's experimentation and this list.  You'll never 
hear me hold experienced programmers in disdain; on the contrary I feel 
their input is valuable in helping the language grow and the product's 
marketing expend its reach.




Richard Gaskin Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:44:22 -0700: In its most basic form, 
a Rev script editor is just a field in a stack. The field is loaded with 
the script in response to the editScript message (trappable in a 
frontScript if you want to get the message before the Rev editor does), 
and the script is just a property saved to the object with the save 
command ("set the script of  to 

Re: Where does the memory go?

[Richard Gaskin]

Dennis Brown wrote:
Another way to ask that question would be to pose it as its  
corollary: do we have evidence of memory leaks in Rev?


There may be, but it seems not too difficult to test:  make a  project 
that adds and deletes large sets of custom props and  objects 
containing large amounts of data, check the memory usage  before it 
starts, let it run all night, and check it again in the  morning.


I did just that.  I made a button with the following quickly thrown  
together script and ran it, stopping it every so often to save the  
stack and check the size.  The good news is that the rather large set  
of properties and data (210MB) was created and deleted each pass  (only 
took a few seconds per pass) resulted in not even a single byte  change 
in stack size between passes.  Thanks for the suggestion.  Now  I can 
sleep tonight!


FWIW, for card deletion there is sometimes some space leftover as a 
result of the hashing scheme used, much as there would be for record 
deletion in most databases.  This can be reclaimed with the compact 
command -- from the Dictionary entry for "compact":


   When you cut or delete a card, some free space is left
   within the stack. This empty space is reclaimed when
   you choose File menu Save. Use the compact command to
   reclaim this empty space without having to save the stack.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
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RE: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor AND Endlessranting and rude insults AND other points

[MisterX]

you dont need to be rich to be my ... (Prince)

Just show enough guts and brains to help improve rev and then ask for it...

cheers
Xav 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Björnke von Gierke
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 01:35
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script 
> editor AND Endlessranting and rude insults AND other points
> 
> 
> On Jul 01 2005, at 01:29, Dennis Brown wrote:
> 
> > I would be MORE than happy to segregate my posts into the two 
> > different categories.
> > There is a lot of traffic on this list, it would make sense 
> to divide 
> > up the traffic into these two areas.
> 
> There is an Improve Rev list, but only rich people are 
> allowed to participate there (aka Enterprise owners). That is 
> RunRev's decision, not mine of course...
> 
> sorry
> Bjoernke
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> http://contest.wecode.org
> Now running: the first ChatRev coding contest!
> sponsors:
> Altuit
> Andre Garzia
> Fourth World
> Karl Becker
> Runtime Revolution
> TidBITS in cooperation with eHUG
> 
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Re: Where does the memory go?

[Dennis Brown]

On Jun 30, 2005, at 7:23 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


Dennis Brown wrote:


Hi all,
I have been using custom properties and custom properties sets to   
store results from different data analysis.  This requires me to   
delete the properties of the last run before proceeding with the  
next  run.  There are many many automatically generated properties  
in the  sets.  I started to wonder what happens to the memory when  
I delete a  key.  The properties can no longer be seen because the  
key is gone,  but what about the memory space.  Does Rev garbage  
collect the space  to recover it?  I am concerned that I will  
create this huge legacy of  garbage memory structures that will  
continue to grow as my program is  run and saved over many months.

Can anyone verify that the program memory space will be recovered?



Another way to ask that question would be to pose it as its  
corollary: do we have evidence of memory leaks in Rev?


There may be, but it seems not too difficult to test:  make a  
project that adds and deletes large sets of custom props and  
objects containing large amounts of data, check the memory usage  
before it starts, let it run all night, and check it again in the  
morning.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
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Richard,

I did just that.  I made a button with the following quickly thrown  
together script and ran it, stopping it every so often to save the  
stack and check the size.  The good news is that the rather large set  
of properties and data (210MB) was created and deleted each pass  
(only took a few seconds per pass) resulted in not even a single byte  
change in stack size between passes.  Thanks for the suggestion.  Now  
I can sleep tonight!


BTW: The technique below is how I finally figured out how to have  
multi-dimensional arrays saved as properties that can be directly  
addressed by variables without using the do command.  Really no  
difference between array[x,y] and array[x&"x"&y&"y"]  or something  
similar as far as keys go --a unique key is generated for each  
element in either case.


Dennis

ON mouseUp
local k,key,stuff
set the textColor of me to "red"
REPEAT 1000 times
put "A nice line to repeat"&cr after stuff
END repeat
--
REPEAT forever
set the customPropertySet of me to "Data" --also creates the  
set if it does not exist
put the customKeys of me into k --delete the old set of  
preferences for "mySet"

get empty
REPEAT for each line key in k
IF key contains "mySet" THEN next repeat
put key&cr after it
END repeat
set the customKeys of me to it
set the customPropertySet of me to empty
IF the mouseClick THEN if the clickLoc is within the rect of  
me THEN exit repeat

--generate a lot of keys with a lot of data
REPEAT with y=1 to 100 --Y values
REPEAT with x=1 to 100 --X values
-- save the whole Stats for each point in the result  
matrix

set the Data["mySet"&x&"x"&y&"y"] of me to stuff
END repeat
END repeat
--set the Data["Passes"] of me to 0
get the Data["Passes"] of me
add 1 to it
set the Data["Passes"] of me to it
put "Pass"&&it
END repeat
set the textColor of me to "black"
END mouseUp

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Re: SPAM

[Timothy Miller]

Timothy-

Thursday, June 30, 2005, 4:16:37 PM, you wrote:

TM> I am not thrilled to hear that. I presumed that my email address
TM> would be relatively safe on this list, because it is open to
TM> subscribers only. If I had known otherwise, I would have subscribed
TM> with a disposable email address. This one is not particularly
TM> disposable.

I can say that I've never received a spam email that I can attribute
to this list. I used to be *very* careful about not putting my email
address on postings to any list. I still am on some lists. But several
of my subscribed listservs are archived on gmane and, of course,
indexed by Google and they always have at least a first pass at hiding
email addresses.

Nothing's perfect. There are other problems with our listserv
software, but the obfuscation of email addresses is not one of those.
I extract the email addresses from this list through Google
screenscraping in one of my plugins. It's not hard to do. I'm sure
there's spammer software out there to harvest them.

TM> I doubt that a spammer would take the trouble to subscribe to a
TM> relatively small list like this. On the other hand, a spammer could
TM> probably figure out how to harvest email addresses from lists
TM> archived on Google.

TM> Is it really essential to archive the list on Google?

Google does this by itself. It's not a runrev decision.


I never knew Google had the capacity to do this sort of thing. It's 
really troubling. I always thought an email list was equivalent to 
private email sent from one person to a bunch of others. Apparently 
it's not.


I won't ask you to explain. It's too far off topic. I don't know what 
gmane is either. But thanks for letting me know. Maybe I'll 
understand it someday.


TM
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Re: file name or dir changed from the desktop

[Jeanne A. E. DeVoto]

At 3:13 AM -0700 6/30/2005, Scott Morrow wrote:
Although changing the file name of an open file seems like a bad 
idea, I'm sure one of my users will do it and then get confused when 
their  newly named file doesn't contain the most recent changes.   I 
noticed that Appleworks 6 (OSX) doesn't have a problem with the file 
name being changed.


It's a design flaw that goes back to HyperCard. HC and Rev alike use 
hardcoded file paths, rather than filesystem specs. (It's worth 
noting that some OS X applications do this too and exhibit similar 
problems.)


In the case of Rev, there's some excuse for it, since a file path is 
a simple string (and thus can be dealt with easily in Transcript). 
But it does have the effect that if you change a file's path while 
it's open, either by renaming it or moving it, things break. I'm not 
sure there's a good workaround.

--
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.jaedworks.com
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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor AND Endless ranting and rude insults AND other points

[Dennis Brown]

Thomas,

Please turn your sensitivity knob down two notches and stop stirring  
up the pot.  My comments were not meant to insult or be rude to  
anyone, and in rereading them, I can't see that they are, but you  
have labeled them so.  You are actually inciting more discussion and  
rudeness than you are preventing.  I am only trying to provide  
helpful suggestions for how to separate one generic type of  
discussion from another for the benefit of the people who come to  
this list to get the very helpful and appreciated advice of the "old  
hands".  Dwelling on an individuals opinion and reading into it  
something that may or may not have been intended as disrespectful has  
promoted more controversy than it warrants.  My delete key has been  
overly active on this thread already --I like to keep the most  
helpful messages for future reference in my mail folder after I have  
filtered out the irrelevant ones to improve future searches.


Extraneous BZ improvement suggestions that are not well thought out,  
or could be handled in some other reasonable way are a waste of  
RunRev's limited resources to sort through and make responses.   
Intelligent discussion in a list with interested users is a useful  
way of making the best suggestions.


As I said, I think it is reasonable for the high end "Professional"  
license purchasers to discuss improvements in their own exclusive  
thread, and having a thread for that, are less inclined to bring that  
thread into this thread.  Just a statement of fact, but using less  
words, because of my slow typing skills.


So there are two choices, continue on in unproductive mud slinging  
and snide rude remarks and insults or let this dead horse lie and  
get back to the business at hand.


Don't feel you have to reply to opinion portion of this message, I am  
content to leave it at that.


Dennis

On Jun 30, 2005, at 8:36 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

The problem is that the discussions turned into insults and rude  
comments and they are still going on. The new traffic on the list  
is great and the help that this list offers is beyond any list I  
have ever seen. But when an intelligent discussion falls into rude  
comments being thrown at the "old timers", "old hands", "rich  
people" who are too busy "having their own pow wow" or "are used to  
it and expect others to get used to it" or what ever other snide  
comments people can come up with then it is no longer a productive  
discussion and is wasting an awful lot of list space which is  
normally used in helping people.


So there are two choices, continue on in unproductive mud slinging  
and snide rude remarks and insults or let this dead horse lie and  
get back to the business at hand.


Bugzilla does work ( if your bug is not voted on may others find  
different bugs more important to them) and Rev does pay attention  
to both this list and the improve list and BZ. The comments from  
Mark recently show just that. There are all kinds of bug fixes  
going on as we speak and Rev has committed to an increase in those  
bug fixes and bug fix releases.


Tom

On Jun 30, 2005, at 8:17 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:


We can always put requests into BZ, but I believe an intelligent  
discussion should proceed that action, and that only those who are  
interested should be subjected to the additional traffic.  Perhaps  
it is time for an improve-list for the rest of us.   The  
discussions will happen anyway --if not there, then here.






Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.9, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM,  
Rev 2.6



Advanced Media Group
Eagle Works Art & Sculpture
Semantic Compaction Systems
Prentke Romich Company
Prentke Romich International
SCIconics, LLC
Artist
Thomas J McGrath III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor AND Endless ranting and rude insults AND other points

[Mark Smith]

My point was that people on this list - not RunRev themselves - are 
both more inclined and more able to offer workarounds where necessary 
than they could possibly be to fix bugs. That is obviously RunRevs job.


I think some of the somewhat heated tenor of some posts recently has 
been partly  due to one or two professional programmers who are new to 
Rev venting their newbie frustrations by suggesting that Rev couldn't 
be used for serious work, when there are pros here who can prove that 
assertion quite wrong, and partly due to the fact that the list is 
overwhelmingly populated by users of Rev rather than the creators of 
Rev, therefore, a complaining attitude is inappropriate. Email customer 
service with complaints, ask for practical help on the list. And RTFM 
:)


Mark Smith

On 30 Jun 2005, at 23:04, M Young wrote:

Mark Smith Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:22:37 +0100: I don't think anyone has 
really suggested that you shouldn't mind. But it's the nature of this 
list for people to offer workarounds and show examples of how they 
deal with things. For what it's worth, I agree that the script editor 
is buggy in it's formatting, but not so much that you can't work.
MY: It bothers when a tool that costs a lot of money is buggy. I want 
the toaster of software development -- just plug it in and it works. I 
see no reason for me to need workarounds.


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Re: How do I make simple multiple user access app?

[Stephen Barncard]

Keith;
Are you sure the resources aren't already available at the ISP the 
office already uses for its web site (assuming it has one)?


Your wife's fears notwithstanding, MySQL is offered with other web 
goodies at a very reasonable price at many ISPs, such as Dreamhost 
(less than $10/month with tons of goodies and space, including 
MySQL.) and others. You can have as many users as you need at once, 
many databases and a lot of diskspace and it's fast. This solves the 
problem of installing a server - you don't have to - and it's secure 
- Dreamhost MySQL servers only work outside the ISP (beyond 
localhost) with designated IPs you specify. All the machines need to 
be is to be connected and running your app.


I too had considered a text based database - I originally wanted to 
avoid the 'complexity' of dealing with SQL - it looked scary but 
Sarah's basic Rev SQL stacks made it all clear and Trevor Devore's 
new libraries turned my MySQL database into a perfect 'data box'.




Personally, knowing something of what's needed, I'd have put a 
PHP/MySQL solution at the top of the list if it was my own project. 
But that requires more resources than are available for that office, 
and my wife wouldn't speak to me for a week if I even suggested she 
do it that way!



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Using libSMTP to send an e-mail

[tim]

Hi All,

I'm trying to get to grips with using Shao Sean's libSMTP to send an e-mail.
I've so far had limited success, in that I can send a message, but all of 
the TO,FROM,SUBJECT information is empty. Furthermore, the e-mails I have been
sending must look dodgy because my ISP keeps blocking my account after I use
libSMTP to send something!

I've been reading that there's 
another library by Shao Sean to format the mail (libMail?), but I can't find 
it to download anywhere.

So, I guess I'm wondering...

1. Can I get the libMail library? If so, where? And if not
2. How do I format the data I send using libSMTP so that e-mail clients will 
understand it?

Many thanks,


Tim. 




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Re: GetImageByID

[Alex Tweedly]

Derek Bump wrote:

Having a little trouble with external writing.  For some odd reason I 
can't get the imageData of an image by it's ID, the compiler always 
fails.


  GetVariableEx(args[0], emp, &image, &retvalue);
  // This one works because it's getting the imageData from a variable

  image = GetImageByID("", args[0], &retvalue);
  // Results in an error.  "Incompatable Types in Assignment"


Is "image" properly declared ?  i.e as
MCString *image

(I know the example says that it should be a char * - but I don't 
believe that !!  Since the image can contain binary data and hence can 
contain null bytes, I reckon it must be a MCstring* - but I don't 
currently have access to a complete directory of the externals package, 
so I can't check.)


Might be better to send the whole file of your external code, rather 
than just such small fragments.




I'm also trying to get the image's width and Height, and have the 
following results...


  width = atoi(args[1]);
  // Works because the image width is Argument #2

  width = EvalExpr("the width of img 1", &retValue);
  // Gives a bunch of errors regarding "&retValue"


U  - again bigger fragment 
What errors ?   (btw - note that  this &retValue is an int* - unlike the 
retval for your functions, which are char * )




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[French] Un site dédié à Révolution (Yhann)

[Marielle Lange]

Cher Yhann,

Francophone :-)... Mais vivant depuis longtemps en pays anglophones, pardonnez
les fautes d'orthographe.

Je comprends sans problème que le fait que tout soit en anglais soit un
problème. Programmez en xTalk et comprendre un manuel en anglais sont deux
choses complètement différentes (combien de lecteurs anglais sont capables de
lire un manuel en allemand... bien peu je suppose).

J'ai créé un site pour supporter les enseignants... Vous le trouverez à
, avec liens vers une gallerie de stacks
et palettes.

Le site présente presque exclusivement du matériel en anglais. J'ai annoncé
précédemment sur cette liste que c'est avec grand plaisir que je créerai dans
ce wiki un espace francophone où français, canadiens, belges et autres auraient
l'opportunité de s'exprimer dans leur langue maternelle. On m'a timidement
répondu que ce n'était pas nécessaire.

Je vous invite donc également à créeer un site francophone. Si vous n'avez pas
d'accès facile à un serveur, sachez qu'il me serait très facile de créer un
espace sur mon propre site, avec un statut d'administrateur vous étant aloué
pour votre section (wiki, forum, upload, image gallery, et bien d'autres
options). Je ne peux pas promettre, cependent, d'apporter une contribution
importante à votre initiative, en terme de contenu. Comme je vis en pays
anglophone, travaille dans un milieu anglophone, et interagis au niveau
professionnel avec des personnes qui toutes parlent anglais, j'ai tendance à
contribuer en anglais uniquement (pour moi révolution est un hobby, pas une
source de revenu).

>Question subsidiaire : je suis actuellement développeur sous Director. Je
>souhaite me lancer dans un autre soft, car il se trouve que l'avenir de
>Director est incertain. Mais je ne connais pas l'éditeur de Révolution : à
>votre avis, est-il solide, ou risque t-il d'abandonner ce logiciel ? Quelle
>est la pérennité des applications développées sous Révolution ?

Difficile à dire. Le produit est fantastique... l'équipe de dévelopment est
apparemment solide... de nombreux articles sont récemment apparus dans
différents magazines, avec des commentaires apologétiques sur le logiciel.

Mais question marketing ce n'est pas clair. Ils ont repris metacard en 2002, à
cette date, ils avaient un produit fantastique, avec un meilleur potentiel que
bien des produits concurrents, mais ils n'ont pas vraiment réussi à se faire
connaître. Le problème semble être que les gens responsables du marketing ont
un conflit d'intérêt (ils ont un triple statut: financier / employé RR /
consultants et dévelopeur... mais on ne peut pas trop les en blâmer car, je
pense que c'est grâce à l'argent qu'ils gagnent en qualité de consultant qu'ils
peuvent continuer à supporter le développement de Révolution).

Dans la communauté d'éducateurs, je sais que de nombreuses personnes (moi
incluse) ont proposé de donné un coup de main mais sans aucun résultat. D'un
autre côté, le marché grandissant pourrait enfin leur donner les moyens
financiers d'assurer un marketing/support (tutoriels, etc.) décent. Même si rr
venait à disparaître, il y a de forte chance que xTalk, lui, ne disparaîtra
jamais. L'évolution actuelle est vraiment vers des languages de la 4e
génération, tels que xTalk.

Personellement, je donne priorité à des projects qui facilitent l'import/export
vers des formats standards. Si par malheur cette prédiction s'avérait erronée,
au pire, je garderai la possibilité d'exporter mes programmes en format XUL+XBL
pour transférer mes applications dans l'environnement mozilla (projet sur lequel
je travaille pour le moment).

Même si revolution venait à disparaître dans 5 ans, votre productivité aura
doublé sinon triplé au cours de ces 5 années... le marché est pour l'instant
sur les web-applications et les web-services... et revolution vous laisse
développer de telles applications en qqes heures plutôt que qqes semaines.

Marielle
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Re: Two new (palette) stacks

[Marielle Lange]

> (check out the wiki page on computers in education/design for information
> on this).
> Do you have a link to that page, or suggestions about what
> categories to look under? I've tried various topics but...

Sorry, it may not have been clear that this was the path to follow
computers in education -> design (in fact, courseware and software design)

or


Ah, yes, I forgot, that's one level down:

or

Information about typography, color, screen size, etc., etc.

I have a few books on color harmony at home... it would be nice to create some
color palette system in revolution... you select a base color and it gives you
the harmonic. Like this:

If anybody knows of the formulas to use to reproduce the display on this
webpage, please let me know.

Mac users may know about this:

That's really a brilliant utility to select different color schemes. It would be
cool to reproduce something similar in rev. We are not far... there is this
other stack, which calculates tetradic harmonies.

or
go URL "http://tinyurl.com/b76sw";

>Thank you, too, for those stacks.

My pleasure :-)... let me know if you produce useful palettes or stacks of
interest to educators, I will add them to the gallery.

Marielle
Revolution in education -- 
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resume rev backdrop on top bug?

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Sivakatirswami,

Same here. Has been like that since 2.5... is still the case in 2.6. I don't use
the backdrop much (for this reason), but any time I use it, that's exactly the
behaviour you describe (need to use the window menu as all stacks are *behind*
the backdrop after when going back and forth from another application.

Marielle


OSX:

I've been testing mp4 compressions with a rev stack to view multiple
movies on the same interface... setting the backdrop to black... to
ease distraction with QT Pro running on the side... OK so if I
activate QT Pro  my movie appears on top of the black back drop in
the QT player window... my top stack is also still there... visible.

Now, if QT is the active app (or any other app.. mail.app... bbedit..
whatever) and I click down on the backdrop, *all* windows
disappear if I click on QT or mail.app in the dock, the promptly
present their windows again as expected.  But... if I click on
Revolution only the menus and palette stacks appear and the top stack
is still invisible unless I go to the window menu. And what is even
stranger... if the QT window is visible and the active app, and my
top stack is visible also, when I move the mouse to click down on the
top stack, it disappears!

This I believe has been happening for some time and I'm only now
getting the recipe... I would like to use the backdrop more in apps
that are distributed publicly, but this behavior would be a serious
UI problem.

Or, perhaps I'm missing something?


Sivakatirswami
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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor AND Endless ranting and rude insults AND other points

[Thomas McGrath III]

The problem is that the discussions turned into insults and rude 
comments and they are still going on. The new traffic on the list is 
great and the help that this list offers is beyond any list I have ever 
seen. But when an intelligent discussion falls into rude comments being 
thrown at the "old timers", "old hands", "rich people" who are too busy 
"having their own pow wow" or "are used to it and expect others to get 
used to it" or what ever other snide comments people can come up with 
then it is no longer a productive discussion and is wasting an awful 
lot of list space which is normally used in helping people.


So there are two choices, continue on in unproductive mud slinging and 
snide rude remarks and insults or let this dead horse lie and get back 
to the business at hand.


Bugzilla does work ( if your bug is not voted on may others find 
different bugs more important to them) and Rev does pay attention to 
both this list and the improve list and BZ. The comments from Mark 
recently show just that. There are all kinds of bug fixes going on as 
we speak and Rev has committed to an increase in those bug fixes and 
bug fix releases.


Tom

On Jun 30, 2005, at 8:17 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:

We can always put requests into BZ, but I believe an intelligent 
discussion should proceed that action, and that only those who are 
interested should be subjected to the additional traffic.  Perhaps it 
is time for an improve-list for the rest of us.   The discussions will 
happen anyway --if not there, then here.





Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.9, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.6



Advanced Media Group
Eagle Works Art & Sculpture
Semantic Compaction Systems
Prentke Romich Company
Prentke Romich International
SCIconics, LLC
Artist
Thomas J McGrath III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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GetImageByID

[Derek Bump]

Having a little trouble with external writing.  For some odd reason I 
can't get the imageData of an image by it's ID, the compiler always fails.


  GetVariableEx(args[0], emp, &image, &retvalue);
  // This one works because it's getting the imageData from a variable

  image = GetImageByID("", args[0], &retvalue);
  // Results in an error.  "Incompatable Types in Assignment"


I'm also trying to get the image's width and Height, and have the 
following results...


  width = atoi(args[1]);
  // Works because the image width is Argument #2

  width = EvalExpr("the width of img 1", &retValue);
  // Gives a bunch of errors regarding "&retValue"


So does anyone know what I'm doing wrong?  Thanks!


Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
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Re: Trial Days

[Sarah Reichelt]

 I would appreciate any comments on the use of internet date  
instead of english date for tracking trial days of a distributed  
application. Bad idea .. good idea?


I don't see the need for this amount of code. Why do you not want to  
use the English date? I like it because it is a consistent format no  
matter what system settings are in place.


If I really want to be sure that "convert" is doing the right thing,  
I specify the "from" format e.g. convert myDate from short English  
date to seconds.


Cheers,
Sarah

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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor AND Endless ranting and rude insults AND other points

[Dennis Brown]

Bjoernke,

Thanks for pointing out that there is a list for those who have  
bought the high end "Professional" license to discuss improvements.   
That seems like a reasonable thing to have.  At least that explains  
why I have not been able to elicit much intelligent conversation from  
the "old hands" on my improvement suggestions --they are off having a  
private pow-wow about them, or have already discussed them in the past.


However, that does little to divide up the traffic on this list and  
allow discussion for those inventive users who have no need to spend  
twice as much for their personal programming tool as their computer.   
We can always put requests into BZ, but I believe an intelligent  
discussion should proceed that action, and that only those who are  
interested should be subjected to the additional traffic.  Perhaps it  
is time for an improve-list for the rest of us.   The discussions  
will happen anyway --if not there, then here.


Dennis

On Jun 30, 2005, at 7:35 PM, Björnke von Gierke wrote:



On Jul 01 2005, at 01:29, Dennis Brown wrote:


I would be MORE than happy to segregate my posts into the two  
different categories.
There is a lot of traffic on this list, it would make sense to  
divide up the traffic into these two areas.




There is an Improve Rev list, but only rich people are allowed to  
participate there (aka Enterprise owners). That is RunRev's  
decision, not mine of course...


sorry
Bjoernke


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Now running: the first ChatRev coding contest!
sponsors:
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Karl Becker
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Re: Find and Replace again

[Sarah Reichelt]

Not wishing to be tedious -- Is there consensus that "Find and  
Replace" in version 2.6.x is as fast as the CPU allows? In other  
words, as fast as the "find" command, on the same search in the  
same stack?


Well it's different. The "find" command goes to the next instance  
only, while "Find & Replace" lists all the occurrences of the find  
string. So which you use depends on your needs at the time.


The speed of the search depends on how much you want to search.  
Sometimes I want to search all the stack files in a particular folder  
and that can take 10 seconds or so. Searching a single card stack is  
almost instantaneous. Searching a stack with lots of cards takes  
several seconds.


I'm reluctant to download 2.6 and try it, having read reports of  
2.5.1 stacks that don't work right after running on 2.6. Maybe  
that's all fixed now. Not sure. So many topics every day. I'm still  
cautious about premature upgrades.


I have had no problems upgrading to 2.6. Initially there was a bug  
with the answer command which caused script problems, but that was  
fixed in 2.6.1. The file structure has not changed, so the usual  
advice for upgrades applies. Backup your stacks before opening them  
in the new version and you can always revert to the old version if  
you find a problem.


HTH,
Sarah

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Re: SPAM

[Mark Wieder]

Timothy-

Thursday, June 30, 2005, 4:16:37 PM, you wrote:

TM> I am not thrilled to hear that. I presumed that my email address
TM> would be relatively safe on this list, because it is open to 
TM> subscribers only. If I had known otherwise, I would have subscribed
TM> with a disposable email address. This one is not particularly 
TM> disposable.

I can say that I've never received a spam email that I can attribute
to this list. I used to be *very* careful about not putting my email
address on postings to any list. I still am on some lists. But several
of my subscribed listservs are archived on gmane and, of course,
indexed by Google and they always have at least a first pass at hiding
email addresses.

Nothing's perfect. There are other problems with our listserv
software, but the obfuscation of email addresses is not one of those.
I extract the email addresses from this list through Google
screenscraping in one of my plugins. It's not hard to do. I'm sure
there's spammer software out there to harvest them.

TM> I doubt that a spammer would take the trouble to subscribe to a 
TM> relatively small list like this. On the other hand, a spammer could
TM> probably figure out how to harvest email addresses from lists 
TM> archived on Google.

TM> Is it really essential to archive the list on Google?

Google does this by itself. It's not a runrev decision.


-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor AND Endless ranting and rude insults AND other points

[Richard Gaskin]

Björnke von Gierke wrote:


On Jul 01 2005, at 01:29, Dennis Brown wrote:

I would be MORE than happy to segregate my posts into the two 
different categories.
There is a lot of traffic on this list, it would make sense to divide 
up the traffic into these two areas.



There is an Improve Rev list, but only rich people are allowed to 
participate there (aka Enterprise owners). That is RunRev's decision, 
not mine of course...


I'm far from rich, just an early adopter from a time when $995 was the 
only price offered for getting on this bandwagon.  Since it paid for 
itself in the first quarter afterward, I've never regretted the 
purchase.  Most of my clients are from the era as well and they've never 
questioned the value of that purchase, though none of them own vacation 
homes on exotic New Zealand beaches (well, one does, but he lives there).


I believe the philosophy of limiting the improve-rev list to Enterprise 
users is pretty much what's been expressed by other list members here: 
there's a wide gulf between productive exchange that results in specific 
recommendations, and simple whingeing.  The presumption is that 
professionals whose livelihood is dependent on the product will 
demonstrate a stronger focus on productive outcomes.


Reading the posts here it seems no one would particularly mind 
recommendations for product improvement delivered here with productive 
professionalism.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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(no subject)

[Marielle Lange]

Same here it may have something to do with the RR server upgrade.
Best,
Mariele

>Hi all,
>I posted 3 or 4 emails since yesterday from my home mail adand none made
>it in the list?
>Any clues? TIA

>cheers
>Xavier

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Re: Trial Days

[Robert Presender]

Thanks to Jonathan Lynch and Robert Brenstein for your input.
Trial days now down to 4 lines.

Regards .. Bob

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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor AND Endless ranting and rude insults AND other points

[Thomas McGrath III]

I am on the Improve list and I am very very very very very very far 
from rich.


That is rather rude of you to say.

Tom


On Jun 30, 2005, at 7:35 PM, Björnke von Gierke wrote:



On Jul 01 2005, at 01:29, Dennis Brown wrote:

I would be MORE than happy to segregate my posts into the two 
different categories.
There is a lot of traffic on this list, it would make sense to divide 
up the traffic into these two areas.


There is an Improve Rev list, but only rich people are allowed to 
participate there (aka Enterprise owners). That is RunRev's decision, 
not mine of course...


sorry
Bjoernke


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Now running: the first ChatRev coding contest!
sponsors:
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Andre Garzia
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Karl Becker
Runtime Revolution
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2.6



Advanced Media Group
Eagle Works Art & Sculpture
Semantic Compaction Systems
Prentke Romich Company
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor AND Endless ranting and rude insults AND other points

[Thomas McGrath III]

There is the improve list at Revolution.

Tom

On Jun 30, 2005, at 7:29 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:

I did not find much in this or any other posts on this subject very 
helpful compared to the volume of email taken up --except for one 
point:


Helping with scripting questions is what this list should be about.  
Not everyone wants to debate the shortcomings --some just want advice 
on how to overcome their problems today.


Where is the other list to discuss intelligently suggestions about 
improving the language?


I would be MORE than happy to segregate my posts into the two 
different categories.
There is a lot of traffic on this list, it would make sense to divide 
up the traffic into these two areas.


Dennis

On Jun 30, 2005, at 6:54 PM, Jon wrote:


Michael:

Interesting post: thanks!

Jon


M Young wrote:



Hello everyone,

I know that I have not yet offered much scripting help etc. to 
others on this list since I do not feel I know Revolution well 
enough yet to offer good suggestions, but I would like to comment on 
a few things that I have seen posted on this list recently in 
several threads. I have attempted to attribute list posted comments 
correctly and I apologize in advance if I have made any errors. I 
also apologize in advance if anyone believes their comments are 
being incorrectly taken out of context.








Sincerely,

Michael Young
Currently Inventive User of Runtime Revolution

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Eagle Works Art & Sculpture
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Prentke Romich Company
Prentke Romich International
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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor AND Endless ranting and rude insults AND other points

[Thomas McGrath III]

MY,

There is the improve list at Revolution where requests and improvements 
are made. I believe you need to be an Enterprise Owner to sign up for 
that list.


And as far as your comments on everyone else's comments: Most sounded 
reasonable. I agreed with a few and disagreed with others. But the 
issue I brought up remains. That is if someone is frustrated or 
disagrees with an aspect of Rev or certain bugs in Rev that does not 
give them cart blanc to insult the users on this list. Throwing around 
rude comments to the very helpful and needed people from the list does 
not help and is not except-able.


Tom

On Jun 30, 2005, at 6:04 PM, M Young wrote:

MY: Very true. The current Revolution list does not seem to be a 
productive place to request language syntax, etc. changes. In the last 
few years I have followed this Revolution list such requests seem to 
be regularly put down by old x-talk hands. May be posters should be 
directed to a more appropriate list for such discussions, presuming 
one exists.



Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.9, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.6



Advanced Media Group
Eagle Works Art & Sculpture
Semantic Compaction Systems
Prentke Romich Company
Prentke Romich International
SCIconics, LLC
Artist
Thomas J McGrath III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: design problem: fonts and spacing

[Marielle Lange]

>I guess I don't quite see how that would work in detail, but I can
>look for it. It sounds, though, like an _awful_ lot of very finicky
>work, on every individual example, of which there are a pretty large
>number.

>Is there some HTML-tag or RTF-tag approach to this problem?

The HTML-tag (div+css) approach to the problem would in fact be the equivalent
of storing your sentence parts in different text fields and then positionning
these text fields.

If you cannot use an algorithm to assign the tags automatically, then the
fastest approach is to assign tags manually, in a text file, then write a
program that will produce an aligned output, based on the tags.

Hope this help,
Marielle
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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor AND Endless ranting and rude insults AND other points

[Björnke von Gierke]

On Jul 01 2005, at 01:29, Dennis Brown wrote:

I would be MORE than happy to segregate my posts into the two 
different categories.
There is a lot of traffic on this list, it would make sense to divide 
up the traffic into these two areas.


There is an Improve Rev list, but only rich people are allowed to 
participate there (aka Enterprise owners). That is RunRev's decision, 
not mine of course...


sorry
Bjoernke


--

http://contest.wecode.org
Now running: the first ChatRev coding contest!
sponsors:
Altuit
Andre Garzia
Fourth World
Karl Becker
Runtime Revolution
TidBITS in cooperation with eHUG

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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor AND Endless ranting and rude insults AND other points

[Dennis Brown]

I did not find much in this or any other posts on this subject very  
helpful compared to the volume of email taken up --except for one point:


Helping with scripting questions is what this list should be about.   
Not everyone wants to debate the shortcomings --some just want advice  
on how to overcome their problems today.


Where is the other list to discuss intelligently suggestions about  
improving the language?


I would be MORE than happy to segregate my posts into the two  
different categories.
There is a lot of traffic on this list, it would make sense to divide  
up the traffic into these two areas.


Dennis

On Jun 30, 2005, at 6:54 PM, Jon wrote:


Michael:

Interesting post: thanks!

Jon


M Young wrote:



Hello everyone,

I know that I have not yet offered much scripting help etc. to  
others on this list since I do not feel I know Revolution well  
enough yet to offer good suggestions, but I would like to comment  
on a few things that I have seen posted on this list recently in  
several threads. I have attempted to attribute list posted  
comments correctly and I apologize in advance if I have made any  
errors. I also apologize in advance if anyone believes their  
comments are being incorrectly taken out of context.








Sincerely,

Michael Young
Currently Inventive User of Runtime Revolution

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Find and Replace again

[Timothy Miller]

I was hoping for a final clarification and consensus regarding 
command-F "Find and Replace." The thread died before I got on.


I read various reports of "Find and Replace" speed in version 2.5.1. Oh well...

Not wishing to be tedious -- Is there consensus that "Find and 
Replace" in version 2.6.x is as fast as the CPU allows? In other 
words, as fast as the "find" command, on the same search in the same 
stack?


I'm reluctant to download 2.6 and try it, having read reports of 
2.5.1 stacks that don't work right after running on 2.6. Maybe that's 
all fixed now. Not sure. So many topics every day. I'm still cautious 
about premature upgrades.


Thanks,


Tim
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Re: Where does the memory go?

[Richard Gaskin]

Dennis Brown wrote:

Hi all,

I have been using custom properties and custom properties sets to  store 
results from different data analysis.  This requires me to  delete the 
properties of the last run before proceeding with the next  run.  There 
are many many automatically generated properties in the  sets.  I 
started to wonder what happens to the memory when I delete a  key.  The 
properties can no longer be seen because the key is gone,  but what 
about the memory space.  Does Rev garbage collect the space  to recover 
it?  I am concerned that I will create this huge legacy of  garbage 
memory structures that will continue to grow as my program is  run and 
saved over many months.


Can anyone verify that the program memory space will be recovered?


Another way to ask that question would be to pose it as its corollary: 
do we have evidence of memory leaks in Rev?


There may be, but it seems not too difficult to test:  make a project 
that adds and deletes large sets of custom props and objects containing 
large amounts of data, check the memory usage before it starts, let it 
run all night, and check it again in the morning.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: _[French]_Un_site_dédié_à _Révolution

[Richard Gaskin]

Pierre Sahores wrote:
I have been for years speaking on the "native lists" and always got  the 
best from our friendly exchanges (J'ai été depuis des années un  fervant 
des listes anglaises et ai toujours eu à m'en réjouir).


On the other hand, we are never going to promote the use of Rev in  
direction of the "conservative froggies" if we don't set-up (the not- 
to-lasy froggies) a real active french list (why not, Kevin, Ro ?)  
officially hosted by Runtime Revolution on its corporate site, just  
along the others lists.


I see no harm in making lists specifically for other languages, other 
than the overhead of maintaining them.


In the meantime, there are already Japanese and German discussion boards 
for Rev, included in the Links page at revJournal:



If you start a French list/discussion board I'll happily add it to that 
page.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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TAOO/XOS for education

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Xavier,

Thanks very much for the reply and comments (should appear soon on this list,
hopefully). As expressed in a private reply to you and to others previously, I
am interested in your framework in the context of the following projects, all
under a same hood:



(1) is operational (lexicall website)
(2) and (3) on the list (eZyscript and eXercist projects) are currently being
developed by students. (4), (5), (6) (ePictures, eBookmarks, eOntology) are
there in terms of content, but nowhere yet in terms of coding of the
application.

I am currently trying to get funding... if successful, I would prefer to develop
this as free use (but, yes, copyrighted). If unsuccessful, I may take a year or
two off my current job and go for a commercial project.

So, yes, please send me the files and so on. I will do my best to give you
constructive criticisms. (please use my blueyonder email for this).

Nope, I am not copying your ideas. I had some of these projects written as
proposals before I even heard of revolution... but revolution is the first
software that gets me thing that now, I have the right development environment
for these projects.

Marielle
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Re: SPAM

[Timothy Miller]

Bob wrote:



Ok that looks like a list trawler, however, this list is available archived
on google and on other open servers...



I am not thrilled to hear that. I presumed that my email address 
would be relatively safe on this list, because it is open to 
subscribers only. If I had known otherwise, I would have subscribed 
with a disposable email address. This one is not particularly 
disposable.


I doubt that a spammer would take the trouble to subscribe to a 
relatively small list like this. On the other hand, a spammer could 
probably figure out how to harvest email addresses from lists 
archived on Google.


Is it really essential to archive the list on Google?

The other possible source of the spam in question is that a list 
subscriber is infected with a trojan that broadcasts email addresses, 
or spam itself. I'm not an expert, but if I have understood the 
articles I have read on this topic, the internet is infested with 
such things.



Tim Miller

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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor AND Endless ranting and rude insults AND other points

[Jon]

Michael:

Interesting post: thanks!

Jon


M Young wrote:


Hello everyone,

I know that I have not yet offered much scripting help etc. to others 
on this list since I do not feel I know Revolution well enough yet to 
offer good suggestions, but I would like to comment on a few things 
that I have seen posted on this list recently in several threads. I 
have attempted to attribute list posted comments correctly and I 
apologize in advance if I have made any errors. I also apologize in 
advance if anyone believes their comments are being incorrectly taken 
out of context.





Sincerely,

Michael Young
Currently Inventive User of Runtime Revolution

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Re: file name or dir changed from the desktop

[Mark Wieder]

Scott-

Thursday, June 30, 2005, 3:13:34 AM, you wrote:

SM> 1.) the user opens a stack file
SM> 2.) the user leaves the app (with the file still open), goes to the
SM> desktop and manually changes the file name (or directory)
SM> 3.) the user returns to the app and saves the file

on ChangeFileNameBehindMyBack
  Spank User
end ChangeFileNameBehindMyBack

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor AND Endless ranting and rude insults AND other points

[M Young]

Hello everyone,

I know that I have not yet offered much scripting help etc. to others 
on this list since I do not feel I know Revolution well enough yet to 
offer good suggestions, but I would like to comment on a few things 
that I have seen posted on this list recently in several threads. I 
have attempted to attribute list posted comments correctly and I 
apologize in advance if I have made any errors. I also apologize in 
advance if anyone believes their comments are being incorrectly taken 
out of context.



Thomas McGrath III Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:26:14 -0400: I do mind about how 
Rev progresses and grows and I for one don't want it influenced by 
these other languages or programs at all.
Michael Young (MY): I thought cross pollination of programs, languages, 
etc. is intended to advance the computer/technology/etc. state of the 
art. Granted sometimes people try to combine technologies and ideas 
that do not "belong" together, but I do not see anything wrong with the 
effort.



Judy Perry Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:25:48 -0700 (PDT): No DOT NOTATION!  
It SUX... It's hard.to.read.this:total.utter:crap!
MY: I personally find the dot notation easy to read and sometimes even 
find it easier to read than x-talk syntax that I am still learning. By 
your acting as self appointed defender of the x-talk/Revolution faith, 
I personally did not find your SHOUTING to be very 
professional/pleasant/etc.



Scott Kane Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:47:55 +1000: I guarantee if people using 
Rev went to the Borland newsgroups and demanded x-code there's be a 
whole bunch of laughter - and so it should be with others coming to 
Rev.
MY: Very true. The current Revolution list does not seem to be a 
productive place to request language syntax, etc. changes. In the last 
few years I have followed this Revolution list such requests seem to be 
regularly put down by old x-talk hands. May be posters should be 
directed to a more appropriate list for such discussions, presuming one 
exists.



Richard Gaskin Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:53:49 -0700: A lot of people from a 
wide range of programming backgrounds have learned Rev easily with the 
help of the folks here.
MY: Very true, however I find that the old x-talk hands on this list 
expect all new Rev users to be programming neophytes. "Dan [Shafer] 
coined the term "Inventive User" to describe people who use programs 
like Revolution to create solutions to their own problems without 
necessarily becoming professional programmers in the process." ( 
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest/Sponsors.htm ) The problem 
is some new Revolution users are professional programmers and just as I 
am sure that many list members would consider themselves professional 
programmers. It is not appropriate for old x-talk hands to expect 
professional programmers to forget all programming 
techniques/environments/languages/etc they have learned, just as it is 
not appropriate for professional programmers new to Revolution to 
expect language syntax changes to be the only thing that changes when 
they move to Revolution and they even want to use their old language 
syntax in Revolution.



Scott Kane Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:20:09 +1000: The Rev community (the 
developers using Rev) don't take them selves as seriously as other 
languages - by that I mean they aren't jumping on newbie's and telling 
them to RTFM. Common with Delphi, C++, Visual Basic etc.
MY: Very true. I have been following 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] in the last few weeks. 
That list is very rough and tumble compared with this Revolution list.



Bob Warren Wed, 29 Jun 2005 04:30:07 -0300: I like it [x-talk or Rev, I 
am not quite sure what "it" is] too. In fact, I think that Rev has so 
much in its favour - its philosophy, the Transcript language, even the 
IDE and (yes!) the script editor - that I feel outraged that anyone can 
treat it with so little respect that they continue to let it be riddled 
with bugs. I have been involved with computers since the  early 1960s, 
so perhaps I am a little out of fashion in my attitude towards bugs. In 
my time, they were things to be exterminated urgently. I never thought 
of keeping them as pets, adoring them or even selling them!
MY: Yes. Revolution bugs need to go away. Bugs cause unexpected 
behavior that will turn off potential new Revolution/Dreamcard 
customers. Besides I have paid a lot of money for a product that I 
expect to simply work.



Bob Warren Wed, 29 Jun 2005 05:13:10 -0300: I share your indignation at 
some of the scandalous generalizations that have been made on this 
List, and I think it is a pity. But the other side of the coin is that 
comparisons with other languages is, or should be, natural and normal, 
and I see no good reason for creating taboos in this respect. A worse 
situation would be if Revolution became a closed community, not 
admitting "foreign" influences, criticisms, comparisons or suggestions. 
We all know what madness this leads to.

MY: I agree completely.


Mark

Re: design problem: fonts and spacing

[SimPLsol]

Charles,
 What you are doing would be much easier with a monospaced font. Courier 
is the only one distributed on all platforms and, yes, it IS ugly. It also 
prints a bit differently on different platforms and different printers.
 Bitstream Vera is an opensource, cross-platfrom typeface that has a 
monospaced font. Of course the problem there is that your users would have to 
install this font on their systems to use your software.
 I'd suggest closing your eyes and selecting Courier. I don't think any 
proportional font is worth the struggle; not only are the characters different 
sizes, the real problem is the spaces - which print differently on different 
printers.
Paul Looney
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Re: opening files created by my app

[Jan Schenkel]

--- Langers Christian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Ok,
> 
> i found the answer on Ken Ray's pages : "Setting
> Document  
> Associations in Windows"
> 
> So, I'll try that... Only one question : what
> application is needed  
> to create these entries ? Command Line or the
> registry editor or  ?
> 
> Christian
> 

Hi Christian,

You can leave that up to the installer application, or
use the 'setRegistry' and 'getRegistry' commands and
functions the first time your application is started.

As for actually opening the files on double-click:
Windows will open a new copy of your application, and
the path to the file will be in the $1 global
variable.
In my apps, I handle this in the 'openStack' message
of my mainStack.
--
on openStack
  -- other initialisation stuff
  ...
  -- see if we were opened with a file
  put $1 into tFilePath
  if tFilePath is not empty then
-- handle opening the file
  end if
end openStack
--

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution


=
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La 
Rochefoucauld)



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Re: opening files created by my app

[Langers Christian]

Ok,

i found the answer on Ken Ray's pages : "Setting Document  
Associations in Windows"


So, I'll try that... Only one question : what application is needed  
to create these entries ? Command Line or the registry editor or  ?


Christian


Le 30 juin 05 à 23:07, Langers Christian a écrit :


hello Jan, thierry

thanx, and how is it on windows ?

christian


P.s. Soorry for the multiple mails, but I had problems posting the  
message...




Le 30 juin 05 à 23:03, Jan Schenkel a écrit :



--- Langers Christian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:



Hello everybody,

how do I do to have my app read it's own created
data upon startup ?
e.g. when double-clicking a text file, the text is
loaded into the
Textedit (on Mac)...

I manage to link the created file to open my app,
but not to read its
content...

So, if anybody could give me a hint...



Thanks,


Christian






Hi Christian,

When the user opens one of your files, the MacOS will
send you an appleEvent of class "aevt" and ID "odoc".
So you would add a handler to your mainStack:
--
on appleEvent pClass, pID
  if pClass is "aevt" and pID is "odoc" then
-- the file path is in the appleEvent data
request appleEvent data
put it into tFilePath
-- do what it takes to open your file
  else
-- very important, pass if you don't handle it
pass appleEvent
end appleEvent
--

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution


=
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same  
time."  (La Rochefoucauld)




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Re: How do I make simple multiple user access app?

[keith]

This is a simple data capture tool which creates a new card for 
each chunk of data that's entered (details on a new product) and 
spits out a tab-delimited text file to be sent off to another 
organisation for their use.


It is likely to be left open on someone's screen, but it is also 
likely to be needed by one or two other people at the same time.




It's not clear to me if more than one user needs to add new cards to the app.



Hi Rob. Yes, unfortunately they do. I'm considering an interim 
solution which would simply involve a custom property which flags 
whether the stack is opened or not (updated on openStack and 
closeStack), but I'm not sure how to get the property without opening 
the stack first.


Perhaps I just open it (invisibly?) and then close it again with a 
message if it then sees that the stack is opened by someone else? (I 
guess also allowing an override in case it wasn't closed properly.) 
It is a very small group of people who'd use the final product.

Maybe make it read-only in some way rather than refusing all access...

The various solutions that have been suggested all have their merits, 
I know, but this needs to be a simple solution. I'm doing this partly 
as an exercise in seeing how easy Revolution is for someone with no 
relevant experience *whatsoever* but with a guide at their elbow: I'm 
helping my wife make something for her work. :-)


Personally, knowing something of what's needed, I'd have put a 
PHP/MySQL solution at the top of the list if it was my own project. 
But that requires more resources than are available for that office, 
and my wife wouldn't speak to me for a week if I even suggested she 
do it that way!
Revolution seems to have what she needs (and far, far more, I know; 
I'm not putting it down at all), and it is a very educative 
experience for me to walk her through the process.
The thing is, I'm also trying to stay as many steps ahead as possible 
so I don't lead her down any blind alleys - and I'm far more used to 
SuperCard than Revolution. I will keep trying things for myself of 
course, but I may need to call upon the list's patience again at some 
point!


k
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Re: opening files created by my app

[Langers Christian]

hello Jan, thierry

thanx, and how is it on windows ?

christian


P.s. Soorry for the multiple mails, but I had problems posting the  
message...




Le 30 juin 05 à 23:03, Jan Schenkel a écrit :


--- Langers Christian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:


Hello everybody,

how do I do to have my app read it's own created
data upon startup ?
e.g. when double-clicking a text file, the text is
loaded into the
Textedit (on Mac)...

I manage to link the created file to open my app,
but not to read its
content...

So, if anybody could give me a hint...



Thanks,


Christian





Hi Christian,

When the user opens one of your files, the MacOS will
send you an appleEvent of class "aevt" and ID "odoc".
So you would add a handler to your mainStack:
--
on appleEvent pClass, pID
  if pClass is "aevt" and pID is "odoc" then
-- the file path is in the appleEvent data
request appleEvent data
put it into tFilePath
-- do what it takes to open your file
  else
-- very important, pass if you don't handle it
pass appleEvent
end appleEvent
--

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution


=
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same  
time."  (La Rochefoucauld)




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Where does the memory go?

[Dennis Brown]

Hi all,

I have been using custom properties and custom properties sets to  
store results from different data analysis.  This requires me to  
delete the properties of the last run before proceeding with the next  
run.  There are many many automatically generated properties in the  
sets.  I started to wonder what happens to the memory when I delete a  
key.  The properties can no longer be seen because the key is gone,  
but what about the memory space.  Does Rev garbage collect the space  
to recover it?  I am concerned that I will create this huge legacy of  
garbage memory structures that will continue to grow as my program is  
run and saved over many months.


Can anyone verify that the program memory space will be recovered?

Dennis
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Re: opening files created by my app

[Jan Schenkel]

--- Langers Christian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Hello everybody,
> 
> how do I do to have my app read it's own created
> data upon startup ?
> e.g. when double-clicking a text file, the text is
> loaded into the
> Textedit (on Mac)...
> 
> I manage to link the created file to open my app,
> but not to read its
> content...
> 
> So, if anybody could give me a hint...
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Christian
> 


Hi Christian,

When the user opens one of your files, the MacOS will
send you an appleEvent of class "aevt" and ID "odoc".
So you would add a handler to your mainStack:
--
on appleEvent pClass, pID
  if pClass is "aevt" and pID is "odoc" then
-- the file path is in the appleEvent data
request appleEvent data
put it into tFilePath
-- do what it takes to open your file
  else
-- very important, pass if you don't handle it
pass appleEvent
end appleEvent
--

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution


=
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La 
Rochefoucauld)



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open files with my own created app

[Christian Langers]

Hello everybody,

how do I do to have my app read it's own created data upon startup ?  
e.g. when double-clicking a text file, the text is loaded into the  
Textedit (on Mac)...


I manage to link the created file to open my app, but not to read its  
content...


So, if anybody could give me a hint...



Thanks,


Christian

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Re: opening files created by my app

[Thierry Arbellot]

Hi Christian,

When you double-click on the file, an apple event is send to the app
You just have to process this apple event.

hereafter is some code sample:

on appleEvent pClass, pID, pSender

  switch pClass & pID
  case "aevtodoc"  -- extract the path to the file to open
request appleEvent data
put it into theFilename  -- this is the file to read
-- put here your code to read the file
break
  default
pass appleEvent
  end switch

end appleEvent

Hope it helps

Thierry

On 2005, Jun 30, , at 21:37, Langers Christian wrote:




Hello everybody,

how do I do to have my app read it's own created data upon startup ?
e.g. when double-clicking a text file, the text is loaded into the
Textedit (on Mac)...

I manage to link the created file to open my app, but not to read its
content...

So, if anybody could give me a hint...



Thanks,


Christian



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opening files created by my app

[Langers Christian]

Hello everybody,

how do I do to have my app read it's own created data upon startup ?
e.g. when double-clicking a text file, the text is loaded into the
Textedit (on Mac)...

I manage to link the created file to open my app, but not to read its
content...

So, if anybody could give me a hint...



Thanks,


Christian




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opening files created by my app

[Langers Christian]

Hello everybody,

how do I do to have my app read it's own created data upon startup ?
e.g. when double-clicking a text file, the text is loaded into the
Textedit (on Mac)...

I manage to link the created file to open my app, but not to read its
content...

So, if anybody could give me a hint...



Thanks,


Christian

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Re: _[French]_Un_site_dédié_ à_Révolution

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello (Bonjour) All (Tous),

I have been for years speaking on the "native lists" and always got  
the best from our friendly exchanges (J'ai été depuis des années un  
fervant des listes anglaises et ai toujours eu à m'en réjouir).


On the other hand, we are never going to promote the use of Rev in  
direction of the "conservative froggies" if we don't set-up (the not- 
to-lasy froggies) a real active french list (why not, Kevin, Ro ?)  
officially hosted by Runtime Revolution on its corporate site, just  
along the others lists. At one time, if i right remember there went a  
french section on the runrev site. A list may, perhaps, be more  
usefull, today. (Dun autre côté, nous ne pourrons jamais aider Rev à  
devenir un outil de référence chez les développeurs français si nous  
n'essayons pas de faire vivre une liste Revo en patois local.  
Javascript, Rebol et PHP ont bien leurs listes. Je crois qu'il nous  
faudrait la notre pour pouvoir risquer de devenir des "gens sérieux  
z'aussi" voire le poil-à-gratter qui manque un peu aux trop nombreux  
gaulois crosoft-addicts, because la doc en français...).


 My two cents,

Pierre


Aïe, aïe, aïe, Xavier ! Tu vas me honnir. Don't frame, please ;-)




MisterX <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Ce n'est pas une reticense mais il n'y a pas la masse critique de  
publique

francophone a ma connaissance - Cela n'empeche absolumment rien ;)



Oui et non.

Oui : en nombre absolu, certainement.
C'est pour celà que la liste francophone sur yahoo n'a pas vraiment
décollé. En fait si, mais plusieurs participants sont venus ici, et
s'expriment en anglais.

Mais ce sont quasiment des programmeurs, pas des scripteurs du  
dimanche

["hobbyists"] ;-)
Ils ont l'habitude de l'anglais, ne serait-ce que pour programmer, et
lire la doc et les livres en anglais.
Ils savent s'exprimer facilement en anglais, et comprennent les
subtilités d'arguments exprimés en anglais.

Personnellement, je suis plutôt un hobbyiste [même si j'ai un passé de
plus d'une dizaine d'années en HyperCard, puis en MetaCard].

Je comprends vite, mais il me faut du temps ;-)

Et je reconnais lire de la doc en anglais, des forums en anglais, et
même des livres en anglais ;-)

J'ai même participé à un groupe de traduction des TidBITS en  
français...


Bref, je ne suis pas complétement nul en anglais. Cependant, je
préfererais de loin un forum en français !

Non : quand on parcourt les contributions de ce forum, on voit  
qu'il y a

un nombre non négligable de francophones -- mais ceux-ci préfèrent
s'exprimer en anglais...


--
Revolutionario (pas tant que ça)

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--
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:  +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:  +33 1 64 45 05 33



WEB/VoD/ACID-DB services over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivité"



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Q: Can RunRev send messages to the command line?

[Emilio Gagliardi]

On 30-Jun-05, at 11:52 AM, Jan wrote:


Hi Emilio,

There's no need for AppleScript -- take a look at the
'shell' function. It allows you to do calls like a
command line :
--
  put shell("netstat") into tNetStatResult
  answer tNetStatResult
--
Related items of interest: shellCommand and
hideConsoleWindows.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.


Jan,
thank you so much, that looks very promising.  I will look into those  
commands and see what I can come up with.


Thanks again,
Emilio
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Re: _[French]_Un_site_dédié_à _Révolution

[Dom]

MisterX <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Ce n'est pas une reticense mais il n'y a pas la masse critique de publique
> francophone a ma connaissance - Cela n'empeche absolumment rien ;)

Oui et non.

Oui : en nombre absolu, certainement.
C'est pour celà que la liste francophone sur yahoo n'a pas vraiment
décollé. En fait si, mais plusieurs participants sont venus ici, et
s'expriment en anglais.

Mais ce sont quasiment des programmeurs, pas des scripteurs du dimanche
["hobbyists"] ;-)
Ils ont l'habitude de l'anglais, ne serait-ce que pour programmer, et
lire la doc et les livres en anglais.
Ils savent s'exprimer facilement en anglais, et comprennent les
subtilités d'arguments exprimés en anglais.

Personnellement, je suis plutôt un hobbyiste [même si j'ai un passé de
plus d'une dizaine d'années en HyperCard, puis en MetaCard].

Je comprends vite, mais il me faut du temps ;-)

Et je reconnais lire de la doc en anglais, des forums en anglais, et
même des livres en anglais ;-)

J'ai même participé à un groupe de traduction des TidBITS en français...

Bref, je ne suis pas complétement nul en anglais. Cependant, je
préfererais de loin un forum en français !

Non : quand on parcourt les contributions de ce forum, on voit qu'il y a
un nombre non négligable de francophones -- mais ceux-ci préfèrent
s'exprimer en anglais...


-- 
Revolutionario (pas tant que ça)

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Re: SPAM

[Jerry J]

Stephen,
I get the digest, and here's how the header ofyour last message looks 
to me, with your address in the clear:



Message: 9
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 08:40:34 -0500
From: Stephen Barncard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: SPAM
To: How to use Revolution 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"


Fixing that would be a Good Thing, but there's no help for the larger 
problem: Anybody who has sent you off-list email using that address 
from a Windows machine has to be ever-vigilant with protection against 
spyware/malware. Its even worse if you are in their M$ address book.


This will make you feel better: My server bounces about 250 per _hour_ 
that are to my domain but not my username. I run Spamfire on my mac and 
it takes out another 300-400 per day. I only have to toss about 30 per 
day that get through all that. Mail.app would catch nearly all of 
those, but its just as easy for me to zap 'em in Spamfire.


Just be glad you didn't pick a keyboard finger-twiddle for a domain 
like I did, back when the internet was a nice place and it was sort of 
cool to have a short domain name.


Onward,
Jerry Jensen

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Re: Q: Can RunRev send messages to the command line?

[Jan Schenkel]

--- Emilio Gagliardi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Greetings all,
> I need to perform math calculations outside of
> RunRev and I have  
> found a program that can operate from the command
> line.  is it  
> possible to send commands and or data to the command
> line?  The  
> program reads a data file and returns a set of
> values.  I haven't  
> read all the details yet, but I thought I'd see if
> it were even  
> possible to do this before proceeding down this
> path.
> 
> I think this involves AppleScript, is that correct? 
> Would anyone  
> know of a good example/reference to do this?
> 
> Many thanks,
> Emilio
> 

Hi Emilio,

There's no need for AppleScript -- take a look at the
'shell' function. It allows you to do calls like a
command line :
--
  put shell("netstat") into tNetStatResult
  answer tNetStatResult
--
Related items of interest: shellCommand and
hideConsoleWindows.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution


=
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La 
Rochefoucauld)



 
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Re: design problem: fonts and spacing

[Phil Davis]

Charles -

One thing you can do (which I'm doing for text in cross-platform 
training screens) is to set up your text on your platform of choice in 
your font of choice, then snapshot it. In the stack you distribute, show 
images only, not actual text. It'll display perfectly, guaranteed, 
without any consideration of whether or not the target machine has your 
particular fonts installed.


FWIW -
Phil Davis


Charles Hartman wrote:
I'm reviving an old Hypercard tutorial on English Metrics -- how to  
scan metrical verse in English. It contains lots of scansions, which  
have this general form:


x  /   |  /   /   |  x  (/) |  x/ |  x (/)
A sight so touching in its majesty

As you can see, the spacing of the two lines _in relation to each  
other_ is critical.


I'm finding that when I close and reopen my stack, the spacing of the  
upper (scansion) line is sometimes off -- too condensed or too spaced  
out. I set the Font for the whole stack file to Palatino. I'm also  not 
sure if that's a good idea, because I haven't yet been able to  ttest 
whether it will work on Windows. I'm developing on OS X.


One solution is to put all the scansion-line-pairs into Courier --  
monospaced, universally available, and really ugly. Another is to do  
all the scansions as graphic images, but there are hundreds of them.


Is there a better solution?

Charles Hartman
Professor of English, Poet in Residence
Connecticut College
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*the Scandroid* is at cherry.conncoll.edu/cohar/Programs

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RE: Strange saving behavior

[MisterX]

Mark,

I tested it again... And it's really funny but i've pinned it down to the
save function.

Here's the script

on mouseUp

  put the windows into x
  repeat for each line l in x
if "rev" is char 1 to 3 of l or l is "message box"
 then next repeat
put "Saving stack" && l & tab & the long time & CR before fld
"StackEvents"
 
 compact stack l
save stack l
   -- or 
   -- get the long name of stack l
   --  compact it
   -- save it
  end repeat

end mouseUp

And each time, not all stacks but the palette stacks in the least are
renamed as all lower case. Maybe it's just the palettes but not all palettes
were saved as lc... I just dont see the logic - however i did try saving as
the long stack name or just the stack name (in all cases, this one is
normally spelled).

In the least, im sure that this is the script since i did just test this one
on saving and seeing the result.

I can't enter this in a bugzilla since it's so shaky to reproduce but i will
later when i get the right stuff. This issue is seriously annoying since i
need to check AND rename all my files affected before uploading them to FTP
which is case sensitive. 

Once a file was opened an renamed on a save, no matter what you do it will
resave lower case.

Thanks for any confirmations ;) This issue is on Windows 2000 only as far as
i know, i'll test it later on win2003...

Extra note: most of my stacks are decorationless... This already poses some
problems for some "stack" object menus in rev (bugz'd) or the w32 taskbar
but are there other issues with this?

cheers
Xavier

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Mark Waddingham
> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 14:47
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Strange saving behavior
> 
> Hi Xavier,
> 
> I've just tested this on WinXP (on NTFS) by:
>   1) creating a new stack
>   2) setting it's filename property to 'FooBar.rev'
>   3) saving the stack using 'save stack'
> This results in a stack saved to disk with the filename 
> 'FooBar.rev' in the defaultFolder.
> 
> Furthermore just to rule out IDE oddities: using the IDE 
> retains the case of the filename - 'Save As...' and then 
> renaming to Foobar.rev results in the stack having an 
> appropriate filename (i.e. Foobar.rev) as expected.
> 
> Therefore I conclude that there must be something else going 
> on in your case and this is not necessarily Revolution related.
> 
> A couple of things to check are:
>   - the type of filesystem you are saving to (some FS's will 
> normalise filenames to *their* choice)
>   - the filename property of the stack you are saving is 
> mixed-case before doing 'save stack'
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark Waddingham
> Chief Technical Officer.
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "MisterX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'How to use Revolution'" 
> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 10:29 AM
> Subject: Strange saving behavior
> 
> 
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > Another day, another issue
> >
> > On windows, when i use the command:
> >
> > save stack thisstack
> >
> > The "filename" in windows is put to lowercase... Is there a 
> way to prevent
> > this? Because of my case sensitive ftp, the way i like how 
> i case the 
> > names,
> > i dont want this Sure doesn't look normal. How are linux users 
> > affected
> > i wonder?
> >
> > Can anyone from rev explain maybe?
> >
> > I want to file a CRITICAL on this! ;)
> >
> > cheers
> > Xavier
> >
> >
> > ___
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RE: TAO-O

[MisterX]

> Xavier,
> 
> I am investigating your ideas... is the taoo also related to the tao:

only in some top-view concepts. No C++, no Corba - yet - but this is not
hard in RR - and there is an Object Broker ;) 

> http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/TAO.html
> "A decade of intense R&D on these topics has yielded ACE, 
> which is an object-oriented framework that implements many 
> core patterns for concurrent communication software. We have 
> applied the patterns and components in the ACE framework to 
> develop The ACE ORB (TAO), which is our standards-based, 
> CORBA middleware framework that allows clients to invoke 
> operations on distributed objects without concern for object 
> location, programming language, OS platform, communication 
> protocols and interconnects, and hardware. TAO is designed 
> using the best software practices and patterns that we have 
> discovered in our work on ACE in order to automate the 
> delivery of high-performance and real-time QoS to distributed 
> applications."

TAOO is not yet that big - or oriented that high - but it may 
come one day... I try to buid the bottom layers so that the 
top layers find no limits. The Object Orientedness is based
on the "associative" features of OOP. Meaning that objects RR
might manipulate can be isolated in a dynamic-loading class.

> Okay, I am interested in all that and I believe that RR is 
> ideal for this kind of project.

so do i :)

> But from your cms, the poor psychologist I am couldn't really 
> understand  how the TAOO should be used and how users should 
> contribute (and what). Is there a strategic plan somewhere? 
> Is there a page linking to all documents about the taoo?

I wish i had spent more time on the documentation but the 
design was not finished. Also i did draw the plans, structures,
relationships etc but on paper. Later i tried to put them into visio to get
a "big" plan - but the issue is that the plan can apply to "any" object.

So what is the object? And that's where you missed the point maybe. The
object is the "record" or the group of records (stack, file or db based) and
the object relationships are based on the information itself taht the object
contains. Which is why I term TAOO a "Context" oriented OS.

Who cares about objects anymore? The real economic value of data is in the
content!

> My view on this is that if you spend a bit of time developing 
> a sound infrastructure in which others can contribute (rather 
> than be ready to do it all by yourself), you will get your 
> project taking off a lot more rapidly.

I wish. It's ready for release any day! Updated every day but the thing is
too many have complained about the GUI. So im working on it so they stop
thinking of just candy and get to dig in the insides. 

I know documentation is my weak link. Which is why i made the TAOO
documentation stack to explain the terms and have them related with others
so you could easily see the links. 

Another thing about the documentation is that when i write it, i get 20
ideas per page, and can't continue without first writing those ideas down -
and my build-as-you-think-about-it process starts over again ;)

Seriously speaking, the many modules of TAOO are finished or near. Some like
Objects (and object templates), Groups, Categories, DBOs (database objects
incl. APIs), and Menus are still being rewired - takes time... Everyday, i
get closer. 

I wish others would join in and try to discover - as scripters - the
environment. Between my ideology and my "put it in script" there is just a
matter of time.

> About Xanadu... do you have any idea on how to implement it with mc or
> rr(practically)

Well, in the end that's what TAOO does ;) Xanadu is half CMS, half OOP in a
way. When i started reading about it in Wired, it was so parallel to XOS
(taoo at the time). When i went to do the research, i saw that it was quite
disparate however in terms of showing an concrete examples.

TAOO works already and since the late 80's as i've said before. It's not
finished - it's evolving! I do that as i need one or the other function -
but always using the same logic or Object approach.

Making that possible (like adding a needed menu) requires that there is a
solid library under. So before i release it i would rather finish those
parts unless anyone wants to help. I've released a few modules (the xos
medialib, the documentation, the file browser, the discrete browser to see
if there is interest but it's far from motivating considering only a handful
of persons have really expressed an indirect interest. Like i said, TAOO is
ready to be released but only for those interesting in helping...

cheers
Xavier

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RE: TAO-O

[MisterX]

[resend]
> Xavier,
> 
> I am investigating your ideas... is the taoo also related to the tao:

only in some top-view concepts. No C++, no Corba - yet - but this is not
hard in RR - and there is an Object Broker ;) 

> http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/TAO.html
> "A decade of intense R&D on these topics has yielded ACE, 
> which is an object-oriented framework that implements many 
> core patterns for concurrent communication software. We have 
> applied the patterns and components in the ACE framework to 
> develop The ACE ORB (TAO), which is our standards-based, 
> CORBA middleware framework that allows clients to invoke 
> operations on distributed objects without concern for object 
> location, programming language, OS platform, communication 
> protocols and interconnects, and hardware. TAO is designed 
> using the best software practices and patterns that we have 
> discovered in our work on ACE in order to automate the 
> delivery of high-performance and real-time QoS to distributed 
> applications."

TAOO is not yet that big - or oriented that high - but it may 
come one day... I try to buid the bottom layers so that the 
top layers find no limits. The Object Orientedness is based
on the "associative" features of OOP. Meaning that objects RR
might manipulate can be isolated in a dynamic-loading class.

> Okay, I am interested in all that and I believe that RR is 
> ideal for this kind of project.

so do i :)

> But from your cms, the poor psychologist I am couldn't really 
> understand  how the TAOO should be used and how users should 
> contribute (and what). Is there a strategic plan somewhere? 
> Is there a page linking to all documents about the taoo?

I wish i had spent more time on the documentation but the 
design was not finished. Also i did draw the plans, structures,
relationships etc but on paper. Later i tried to put them into visio to get
a "big" plan - but the issue is that the plan can apply to "any" object.

So what is the object? And that's where you missed the point maybe. The
object is the "record" or the group of records (stack, file or db based) and
the object relationships are based on the information itself taht the object
contains. Which is why I term TAOO a "Context" oriented OS.

Who cares about objects anymore? The real economic value of data is in the
content!

> My view on this is that if you spend a bit of time developing 
> a sound infrastructure in which others can contribute (rather 
> than be ready to do it all by yourself), you will get your 
> project taking off a lot more rapidly.

I wish. It's ready for release any day! Updated every day but the thing is
too many have complained about the GUI. So im working on it so they stop
thinking of just candy and get to dig in the insides. 

I know documentation is my weak link. Which is why i made the TAOO
documentation stack to explain the terms and have them related with others
so you could easily see the links. 

Another thing about the documentation is that when i write it, i get 20
ideas per page, and can't continue without first writing those ideas down -
and my build-as-you-think-about-it process starts over again ;)

Seriously speaking, the many modules of TAOO are finished or near. Some like
Objects (and object templates), Groups, Categories, DBOs (database objects
incl. APIs), and Menus are still being rewired - takes time... Everyday, i
get closer. 

I wish others would join in and try to discover - as scripters - the
environment. Between my ideology and my "put it in script" there is just a
matter of time.

> About Xanadu... do you have any idea on how to implement it with mc or
> rr(practically)

Well, in the end that's what TAOO does ;) Xanadu is half CMS, half OOP in a
way. When i started reading about it in Wired, it was so parallel to XOS
(taoo at the time). When i went to do the research, i saw that it was quite
disparate however in terms of showing an concrete examples.

TAOO works already and since the late 80's as i've said before. It's not
finished - it's evolving! I do that as i need one or the other function -
but always using the same logic or Object approach.

Making that possible (like adding a needed menu) requires that there is a
solid library under. So before i release it i would rather finish those
parts unless anyone wants to help. I've released a few modules (the xos
medialib, the documentation, the file browser, the discrete browser to see
if there is interest but it's far from motivating considering only a handful
of persons have really expressed an indirect interest. Like i said, TAOO is
ready to be released but only for those interesting in helping...

cheers
Xavier

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RE: TAooooooo

[MisterX]

[resend]

> Hi Xavier,
> 
> Me again ;-)

Hi again Marielle ;)

> from http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=178
> "If you know what bittorent did for media sharing, imagine 
> what this can do for your scripting or applications' building 
> or sharing..."
> 
> Exactly... that's what I believe should be done as well. 
> Ok... PRACTICALLY, how do we get there? What are the 
> different steps to follow and actions to take?

Im writing a few "readme firsts" to get into it... And a visual demo to help
understand the infrastructure.

I also need to comment all my code because i have a doubt some will try to
understand what some scripts will do by the handler and parameter names
alone (i also have to re-align my parameters name-wise)

Then i'll send you the url so you can dig in unless you are curious enough -
there are no complicated scritps in TAOO - that's for sure! ;)

> Note that I doubt of your chance to claim copyright on the 
> concept. This kind of ideas is *all over the place*.

True, but so far, none has "ALL" the TAOO ideas or capabilities in place
because none really did a top-to-bottom approach to CMS or KM with a
similarly capable environment as Rev or HyperCard... The one that had it
closes was Frontier - but it had no "real" gui and it was rather confusing. 

Can you copyright innovation? Anyway, the way it is today, you can't
copyright or even patent anything without it being circumventable (see
industrial economics and "patent circumvention" or "first to market"),
without having any big company that might copy it, etc... The japanese say
that business is a game of war. Well, im laying out the battlefield in my
favor first... 

All this may take a while if "we" dont take a distributed approach (which is
what i had planned in the late 80's already!) but we must first seed an
interest in this framework and for what it can be used in what cases. I use
it as a framework for data-management at home and as a Disk-space / NT
server, shares, user administrative tool at work. Im currently adapting it
for Advanced directory management and might even attack HSM storage if
needed. It's just a matter of objects ;)

cheers
Xavier

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RE: _[French]_Un_site_dédié_ à_Révolution

[MisterX]

Yhann

Ce n'est pas une reticense mais il n'y a pas la masse critique de publique
francophone a ma connaissance - Cela n'empeche absolumment rien ;)

"L'ocasion fait le laron" ;) 

--

Xavier

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Yhann
> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 21:59
> To: use-revolution
> Subject: RE:_[French]_Un_site_dédié_à_Révolution
> 
> Désolé pour le français, mais je pense qu'il peut être 
> compréhensible qu'une personne ne soit pas forcément 
> bilingue. Une liste française éviterait d'ailleurs la 
> pollution de celle-ci)
> 
> Je voulais juste vous faire part des premières remarques que 
> j'ai pu lire (Xavier entres autres) et qui m'interrogent.
> 
> J'ai bien compris que la programmation se fait en anglais 
> ;-), je suis moi même développeur et je ne programme pas en français.
> 
> Mais je ne sais pas d'où vient cette réticence à l'initiative 
> que je lançais (ou reprenait, puisque j'ai cru comprendre que 
> d'autres personnes y avaient pensées).
> 
> Tous les langages de programmation on leur communauté, 
> rassemblée autour d'une même langue pour des raisons qui ne 
> me paraissent pas utiles d'expliquer tant elles sont 
> évidentes. C'est le cas de Java, C, C++, ASP, PHP, VB, 
> PASCAL, LINGO, ACTIONSCRIPT... 
> 
> Si, par la suite, (qui sait), sort une version francisée de 
> Révolution, cette communauté sera bien utile pour faire 
> remonter des bogues propres à cette version.
> 
> Je connais moi-même, pour m'être renseigné sur les logiciels 
> 'proches' de Director, des personnes m'ayant parlé de 
> Révolution (c'est comme cela que je le connais) mais qui 
> m'ont déclaré : "ça a l'air d'un bon logiciel, mais on ne 
> trouve pas de docs en français, la communauté des 
> développeurs semble inexistante, c'est pas génial pour le support"
> 
> Je vois, avec plaisir, que votre liste est dynamique, mais 
> j'ai envie de préciser une chose, au risque de blesser 
> certaines personnes : mon message se voulait, avant tout 
> adressé à des francophones, puisque ce projet les concerne 
> directement. Il ne visait nullement les anglophones qui ont 
> accès à un grand nombre de ressources. Je trouve juste un peu 
> "culotté", pour un anglophone, de porter un avis aussi 
> contre-productif, sur l'ouverture d'un projet francophone.
> 
> Je reposterais en faisant un bilan sur les réactions obtenues.
> 
> Bonne soirée (pour ceux à qui il est bientôt l'heure d'aller 
> ce coucher ;-))
> 
> Yhann.
> 
> 
> 

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RE: TAooooooo

[MisterX]

> Hi Xavier,
> 
> Me again ;-)

Hi again Marielle ;)

> from http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=178
> "If you know what bittorent did for media sharing, imagine 
> what this can do for your scripting or applications' building 
> or sharing..."
> 
> Exactly... that's what I believe should be done as well. 
> Ok... PRACTICALLY, how do we get there? What are the 
> different steps to follow and actions to take?

Im writing a few "readme firsts" to get into it... And a visual demo to help
understand the infrastructure.

I also need to comment all my code because i have a doubt some will try to
understand what some scripts will do by the handler and parameter names
alone (i also have to re-align my parameters name-wise)

Then i'll send you the url so you can dig in unless you are curious enough -
there are no complicated scritps in TAOO - that's for sure! ;)

> Note that I doubt of your chance to claim copyright on the 
> concept. This kind of ideas is *all over the place*.

True, but so far, none has "ALL" the TAOO ideas or capabilities in place
because none really did a top-to-bottom approach to CMS or KM with a
similarly capable environment as Rev or HyperCard... The one that had it
closes was Frontier - but it had no "real" gui and it was rather confusing. 

Can you copyright innovation? Anyway, the way it is today, you can't
copyright or even patent anything without it being circumventable (see
industrial economics and "patent circumvention" or "first to market"),
without having any big company that might copy it, etc... The japanese say
that business is a game of war. Well, im laying out the battlefield in my
favor first... 

All this may take a while if "we" dont take a distributed approach (which is
what i had planned in the late 80's already!) but we must first seed an
interest in this framework and for what it can be used in what cases. I use
it as a framework for data-management at home and as a Disk-space / NT
server, shares, user administrative tool at work. Im currently adapting it
for Advanced directory management and might even attack HSM storage if
needed. It's just a matter of objects ;)

cheers
Xavier

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RE: [French] Un site dédié à Révolu tion

[MisterX]

> Bonjour,
> 
> Souhaitant acquérir Runtime Révolution, j'ai été surpris du 
> manque (et c'est peu dire) de ressources concernant ce logiciel.
> 
> Où est la communauté française des développeurs ?

IOWs

Hi,

Hoping to aquire RR, i was suprised at the lack of (if not understated) of
resources regarding this app.

Where is the french developper community?


Yhann

We have developpers from all over the world: Brazil, Japan, Belgium, France,
Italy, Germany, Spain?, The Dominican Republic even! Talk about bananawares
or macaronis or spaghettis or script a la bearnaise, this is it, and in
english. 

"Pourquoi?" might you questionnes moi? (no, im not making fun of you, just
having fun with words which is a second-thousandth degree joke on any
monolingual society - just enjoy the laughter of the list that might respond
positively (i hope) to the mail ;)

Mais it is becoze le language of RunRevve is en english!

And seriously speaking, you CAN scriptit it in French or spanish or wallon
(frrrom wherrre im frrrome) or even bavarian Deutsch if you want but in the
future, if you want to share the true essence of runrev, and learn from
everyoneelse's (great guy) scripts, it's best to use the lingua franca used
in this great Graphical multimedia (speech anyone?) world... And you'll
learn something new every day in both english and programming science ;)

I certainly wish you the welcome, RunRev is a "real" challenge and quite
well supported by a great list and a great development team (i admit!)...
But is Director so dead already?

is this
http://www.bfcc.co.uk/racing/game.htm
doable in RunRev? That's my next challenge! But certainly
not like in Director, but there's always a way...

cheers
Xavier

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RE: weird influence of the gridsize and the grid on the drawing ofsquares by script

[MisterX]

Eric, everyone,

This approach is ultra fast. I use it all the time ;)

The next thing you might ask is how do i know where i clicked? ;)

This is an example taken from my XOSMediaLib. When you click either on the
item in the grid or the grid. This script is in the group script that
contains the "grid" field and the images i display in between hthis grid.

cheers
Dont forget to change the linecolors to your liking ;)
Xav

Hopefully the script is self explanatory - it was writen to be templated
into other image groups the oop way in RunRev (see how i refer to
"thisgroup"... I think there's an error in it though because i dont always
get the right square hilited ;)...

so if it helps, help me back ;)

on mouseup
  put "ImgList" into subgroup
  put the long name of me into thisgroup
  get the short name of the target
  
  if it is "Gridfield" then
put the clickLoc into xy
 
put the tabstops of fld "gridfield" of thisgroup into fgw
put the textheight of fld "gridfield" of thisgroup into fgh

put the left of fld "GridField" of thisgroup into MinW
put the top of fld "Gridfield" of thisgroup into MinH

put (item 1 of xy - MinW) into deltaX
put (item 2 of xy - MinH) into deltaY
 
put deltaX div fgw + 1 into thiscolumn
put deltaY div fgh + 1 into thisrow
 
put the width  of fld "GridField" of thisgroup div fgw into columns
put the height of fld "GridField" of thisgroup div fgh into rows

get (thisrow-1) * columns + thiscolumn
set the hilitedline of fld "images" of grp subgroup to it

  else

put the short id of the target & tab & it into thisimage
put lineoffset(thisimage,fld "images" of grp subgroup) into x

if x < 1 then
  ShowImageList
  put lineoffset(thisimage,fld "images" of grp subgroup) into x
end if

set the hilitedline of fld "images" of grp subgroup to x
 
  end if
  
  send "mouseup" to fld "images" of grp subgroup
  
end mouseup

oh yes, this is a scrolling group. This poses other problems...

If you want to help, i have an bonus external stack with 1500 icons to plug
in to it anytime for testing ;)

You can download the whole stack directly from here
http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=82

For the real challenge, i have a 15000 icon HyperCard stack i can't port to
Metacard or runrev... i'm just scared to recucitate my mac ;)

Note: XOSMediaLib requires GIM to resize correctly on MetaCard or RunRev.

Join the fun of object oriented modular shared libraries or GUIs across any
app anytime in RunRev at

http://monsieurx.com


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Eric Chatonet
> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 21:02
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: weird influence of the gridsize and the grid on 
> the drawing ofsquares by script
> 
> Hi Wouter,
> 
> When I need a grid I use a field the borderColor of which I set.
> For instance with a field named "Grid" which is 141 pixels high and
> 281 pixels broad (I picked this handler in a project):
> 
> on creategrid pGridValue
>local tLoc
>-
>lock screen
>put the loc of fld "Grid" into tLoc
>set the textHeight of fld "Grid" to pGridValue
>set the tabstops of fld "Grid" to pGridValue-1,2 * pGridValue - 1
>set the height of fld "Grid" to (140 div pGridValue) * 
> pGridValue + 1
>set the width of fld "Grid" to (280 div pGridValue) * 
> pGridValue + 1
>set the loc of fld "Grid" to tLoc
>unlock screen
> end creategrid
> 
> Another approach which don't misunderstand the bug but can help?
> 
> Le 29 juin 05 à 20:45, Wouter a écrit :
> 
> > Hi all,
> >
> > After reinvestigating bug 2683 for which Mark Waddingham asked a 
> > recipe,  the weird influence of the gridsize and the grid on the 
> > drawing of squares by script surfaced. Will it become an 
> "undocumented 
> > feature" or is this a bug?  Anyway I didn't know until now.
> > 1 new stack and 1 button with the following script will show:
> >
> > on mouseUp
> >   put gridsize into  tOldgridsize
> >   put the grid into tOldgrid
> >   set the grid to true  ### Mark Schonewille for this detail
> >   if there is no img "test" then create img "test"
> >   set the rect of img "test" to 0,0,400,400
> >   set gridsize to 1
> >   creategrid 50,50
> >   set gridsize to 2
> >   creategrid 160,50
> >   set gridsize to 3
> >   creategrid 50,160
> >   set gridsize to 4
> >   creategrid 160,160
> >   set gridsize to 6
> >   creategrid 50,270
> >   set gridsize to 10
> >   creategrid 160,270
> >   set gridsize to  tOldgridsize
> >   set the grid to tOldgrid
> > end mouseUp
> >
> > on createGrid x,y  ### topleft of grid
> >   choose the rectangle tool
> >   set the filled to true
> >   set the brushcolor to 255,255,255
> >   set the pencolor to 0,0,0
> >   put 10 into tCol   ### number of columns
> >   put 10 into tRow   ### number of rows
> >   put 10 into tSq### tSq = s

RE: TAOO

[MisterX]

Hi Marielle,

Interesting - i was quite amazed at the "directness" of that quote! You
could term TAOO a design pattern by definition using that defenition. 

But... Given the object-associative nature, it's hard to coin as just a
pattern since the associative and object approach are themselves a bit
different due to the RunRev environment. 

Another similarity is Templates (like in C++). But it's only a keyword and
the real definitions are quite different in C++ or TAOO. The principles
remain the same but the use differs.

In TAOO, classes are Types. Objects can be anything, but in general an
object is a data record among a group (type or template) of objects.

There's are classes and libraries just like in most languages and each has a
pattern and exceptions. One big difference is how Rev works since the
"objects" dont have to be programmed and this makes a lot of short-cuts
compared to other languages leaving lots more opportunities to leverage
higher functions (like for a table field).

Hope that clears that ;)

cheers
Xavier

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Marielle Lange
> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 21:50
> To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Subject: TAOO
> 
> Xavier,
> 
> I finally got the time to read your paper on the TAOO...
> 
> What's the difference with Design Patterns?
> 
> "A pattern is a recurring solution to a standard problem. 
> When related patterns are woven together they form a 
> ``language'' that provides a process for the orderly 
> resolution of software development problems. Pattern 
> languages are not formal languages, but rather a collection 
> of interrelated patterns, though they do provide a vocabulary 
> for talking about a particular problem."
> 
> More at:
> http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/tutorials-patterns.html
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RE: TAOO

[MisterX]

[resend]

Hi Marielle,

Interesting - i was quite amazed at the "directness" of that quote! You
could term TAOO a design pattern by definition using that defenition. 

But... Given the object-associative nature, it's hard to coin as just a
pattern since the associative and object approach are themselves a bit
different due to the RunRev environment. 

Another similarity is Templates (like in C++). But it's only a keyword and
the real definitions are quite different in C++ or TAOO. The principles
remain the same but the use differs.

In TAOO, classes are Types. Objects can be anything, but in general an
object is a data record among a group (type or template) of objects.

There's are classes and libraries just like in most languages and each has a
pattern and exceptions. One big difference is how Rev works since the
"objects" dont have to be programmed and this makes a lot of short-cuts
compared to other languages leaving lots more opportunities to leverage
higher functions (like for a table field).

Hope that clears that ;)

cheers
Xavier

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Marielle Lange
> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 21:50
> To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Subject: TAOO
> 
> Xavier,
> 
> I finally got the time to read your paper on the TAOO...
> 
> What's the difference with Design Patterns?
> 
> "A pattern is a recurring solution to a standard problem. 
> When related patterns are woven together they form a 
> ``language'' that provides a process for the orderly 
> resolution of software development problems. Pattern 
> languages are not formal languages, but rather a collection 
> of interrelated patterns, though they do provide a vocabulary 
> for talking about a particular problem."
> 
> More at:
> http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/tutorials-patterns.html
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Q: Can RunRev send messages to the command line?

[Emilio Gagliardi]

Greetings all,
I need to perform math calculations outside of RunRev and I have  
found a program that can operate from the command line.  is it  
possible to send commands and or data to the command line?  The  
program reads a data file and returns a set of values.  I haven't  
read all the details yet, but I thought I'd see if it were even  
possible to do this before proceeding down this path.


I think this involves AppleScript, is that correct?  Would anyone  
know of a good example/reference to do this?


Many thanks,
Emilio
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RE: Trial Days

[Lynch, Jonathan]

If tMonth contain the name of the month in question then this works:

Put lineoffset(tMonth,the monthnames) into initialdate

J.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert
Presender
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 1:24 PM
To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Subject: Trial Days

  I would appreciate any comments on the use of internet date instead of

english date for tracking trial days of a distributed application. Bad 
idea .. good idea?

The below works OK but is there a simpler way if internet date would be 
used?
--use internet date instead of english date to
--count number of trial days. Take the difference between
--a start date in seconds and a current date in seconds
--divided by 86400 to get number of days.
function fInternetDate
   put the internet date into hold
   if  "Jan" is in word 3 of hold then put 1 & "/" into initialDate
   if  "Feb" is in word 3 of hold then put 2 & "/" into initialDate
   if  "Mar" is in word 3 of hold then put 3 & "/" into initialDate
   if  "Apr" is in word 3 of hold then put 4 & "/" into initialDate
   if  "May" is in word 3 of hold then put 5 & "/" into initialDate
   if  "Jun" is in word 3 of hold then put 6 & "/" into initialDate
   if  "Jul" is in word 3 of hold then put 7 & "/" into initialDate
   if  "Aug" is in word 3 of hold then put 8 & "/" into initialDate
   if  "Sep" is in word 3 of hold then put 9 & "/" into initialDate
   if  "Oct" is in word 3 of hold then put 10 & "/" into initialDate
   if  "Nov" is in word 3 of hold then put 11 & "/" into initialDate
   if  "Dec" is in word 3 of hold then put 12 & "/" into initialDate
   put word 2 of hold & "/" after word 1 of initialDate
   put word 4  of hold after word 2 of initialDate
   convert initialDate to seconds
   return initialDate
end fInternetDate

Thanks

Regards ... Bob

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RE: [French] Un site dédié à Révolu tion

[MisterX]

Salut Yhann

Tu peux te fier pieds et mains a RunRev. La methode est "differente" mais un
vrai succes sur n'importe quel platforme ou OS. 

Pour les sites en francais, tu n'as que 

http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/revolutionfr/

Je te conseille vivement et revolutionairement de te mettre a l'anglais pour
plus d'un benefice! En plus RunRev est "vraiment" facile et capable de tout.
Le language est certe le plus facile a debugger et a composer! L'interface
ne vaut pas 1000 mots, mais 1 million! Les limites n'en sont toujours pas
connues ;) Apart certes, des foins un peu la vitesse du tracteur sous la
chaleur et le poids, mais rien qu'un helico en RunRev ne puisse resoudre...
Ya toujours, un nouveau truc!

a+
Xa, je script en Xtalk depuis 18 ANS et RunRev est le meilleur!!!
OK, je suis un biased... mais c'est trop facile ;)
http://monsieurx.com





> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Yhann
> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 19:50
> To: use-revolution
> Subject: [French] Un site dédié à Révolution
> 
> Bonjour,
> 
> Souhaitant acquérir Runtime Révolution, j'ai été surpris du 
> manque (et c'est peu dire) de ressources concernant ce logiciel.
> 
> Où est la communauté française des développeurs ?
> 
> Je pense en trouver peut-être sur cette liste, aussi, 
> j'aimerais que vous vous fassiez connaître. Ainsi, et en 
> fonction du nombre, je pensais qu'il serait intéressant de 
> créer un site web avec forum (ou liste de diffusion) en français.
> 
> Merci de me faire savoir ce que vous pensez de cette 
> initiative. Si elle se révèle intéressante, je suis près à me 
> lancer dans la réalisation du site.
> 
> Question subsidiaire : je suis actuellement développeur sous 
> Director. Je souhaite me lancer dans un autre soft, car il se 
> trouve que l'avenir de Director est incertain. Mais je ne 
> connais pas l'éditeur de Révolution : à votre avis, est-il 
> solide, ou risque t-il d'abandonner ce logiciel ? Quelle est 
> la pérennité des applications développées sous Révolution ?
> 
> Merci pour vos réponses, et à très bientôt, j'espère.
> 
> 
> 

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RE: compileIt for revolution?

[MisterX]

Derek,

The reason C is popular is because it is cross-platform...

Sorry, just my 2 c's...

cheers
Xavier

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon
> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 18:32
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: compileIt for revolution?
> 
> Derek:
> 
> First off, thanks for your help.
> 
> Secondly, why convert it to C?  I have already written it in 
> Delphi/Pascal.  The whole point was to make something that 
> was cross-platform.  If you create an external on your 
> platform (Window?  
> Mac), would it automatically work on the other platforms?
> 
> Thirdly, the code I wrote is not at ALL how I wrote it in 
> Delphi: the extra loops to transfer the image data to the 
> R/G/B arrays were not necessary in Delphi (and perhaps not in Rev!).
> 
> 
> Speaking of which, would a new feature for Rev, like
> 
> "repeat for each pixel in imagedata..." be one way to speed 
> image processing up?
> 
> be helpful for anyone else?
> 
> 
> 
> :)
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
> Derek Bump wrote:
> 
> > Alex Tweedly wrote:
> >
> >> There's a problem with RevOnline. Here's the central part of Jon's 
> >> code
> >
> >
> > Right now I'm working on converting Jon's code to C to 
> include within 
> > an external.  But if anyone happens to know of an easier 
> way, or of an 
> > External that already does this...and cares to share...then 
> that would 
> > be great.
> >
> >
> > Derek Bump
> > Dreamscape Software
> > ___
> > Compress Photos for the Web with JPEGCompress 
> > http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com/
> > ___
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> >
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RE: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[MisterX]

As Mark said, i too have used a myriad script editors, i too watched in
total delight the war of rants carpet bombing today's mailist delivery in
favor of more "single-minded" it-has-to-work-this-way-or-it-s-worthless
attitude. While this is a common MacOnly or PC-only user affliction, i've
seen some amazing quotables on this without any scientific or any kind of
common-sense background research to base them upon. PC users are quite a
pragmatic kind of CPU user. Other than the mindless or clueless users we
encounter in business, and homes or in some forums, the self-respecting PC
user is more like an expert in PCs whereas a Mac User is just a Design and
GUI ergonomics freak. 

I did my share of ranting about the RevScriptEditor and the GM but i was
totally put down by many. I wrote countless times to Kevin until he no
longuer wanted to hear from me. I wrote countless bugzillas to which very
few ever voted - probably due to my ranterPro image. Now, im just savouring
the moment without a word - but at least with a message to tell you that if
ANY of you want to work in multiplatform, you have to LEARN HOW the other
platform works. If it's not the Mac way, there is another way - and it's not
necessarily bad or millions of PC users wouldn't do it every day. I agree
before and still today, there's that feel of cheap quality in PC software
but there's also the fact that PCs are no longuer inferior to Macs. And
while Mac users refined the design of the OS and GUI, PC users have been
tuning their PCs to smoke anything for a lower price - and believe me, they
do! Mac's a no longuer leading the hardware - haven't since the PPC 604 (G2)
i would say. But that's besides the point - PC users like Mac users, want
the shortest route to their information - just like Regular editing as it
should work on a Mac or a PC. So a PC user confronted with a Mac editor is
missing almost half the keyboard shortcuts possible with a PC. And here, in
Rev, even Control-shift-arrowdown doesn't work in fields though if you know
what i mean ;) 

Here's a fact of life: editing with a keyboard - knowing your control-keys
or being able to alt-menuname-menuitem/arrow/keypad - is just about the
fastest way you can edit - without repeated trips to the mouse, the menu,
the menu item - wait for the menu, etc... 

LOL

I went from Mac to PC the moment I tried raphsody! Not because i didn't want
a NeXT OS finally running on my mac - which i really finally got! I even
managed to make a raphsody work fast (killing lots of processes) but it took
weeks to configure... And no apps.

Then i had to do a job on NT, took 1/4 administration course in NT
networking and hop, i was on the PC. Lots of reading! That's for sure. Lots
of try and fail - or careful reading - lots of weird stuff - but never more
than a crash a month or even a year on some pcs. I never saw a mac handle
that! ;) OK, NT is not W98 and I meant W2000. And the funniest thing is that
it took Moft until '98 to get a "clean and nicer OS that really runs! It's a
VMS engine under and they licenced the w95 gui from NeXT - so what do you
say to that?

Today, i work in an enterprise with over 6 teras of "files", i heard they
restore a 1-2 TB DB from testing 2-3 times a week, we have giga bit all
over, total security and audits, and im sure macs could fit in but the way
it's running now, the client's PC is a 100-200 thin client running on
metaframes - and that's 3000 clients... Lots of clients for Rev software
developpers but if your software feels less that lotus notes (the worst
enterprise software i've experienced), then you might not compete to other
developpers with standard "text editing" tools.

In fact in the banking business we still run lots of "terminal" accesses to
mainframes with no graphics whatsoever... Thanks for macros right? ;)

Enough said. Keep an open-mind - just as if you were traveling into another
country (you HAVE travelled to another country have you?) and DO TRY to
document yourself adequately on the OTHER world before bitching.

This is a great occasion where PC users may learn something like Mac users
like Unix like Linux, and so on. As far as im concerned, im working on a
revival of my Script Editor with more features than you could throw at! Plus
it comes with the context editors of TAOO so unlimited extensions and
libraries insertions, convertions, translations coloring, hierarchical views
of the code or addon-props/objs/values/etc, and an auto-type like i've still
haven't seen out there!

It's a shame i had to take such a long route to get back to the original mod
i made of the MC editor but it's also the best i've done to correct the
current editors' lack of editing-ease and bring in all the features "i"
wanted.

Anyway, i hope this is more productive than some of the regular blabla we
hear or features we are forced to use (whether on PCs or in Rev = double
whamy if you use both)! I guess that leaves Mac users on a good looking but
slow self-guided missile and linux use

Trial Days

[Robert Presender]

 I would appreciate any comments on the use of internet date instead of 
english date for tracking trial days of a distributed application. Bad 
idea .. good idea?


The below works OK but is there a simpler way if internet date would be 
used?

--use internet date instead of english date to
--count number of trial days. Take the difference between
--a start date in seconds and a current date in seconds
--divided by 86400 to get number of days.
function fInternetDate
  put the internet date into hold
  if  "Jan" is in word 3 of hold then put 1 & "/" into initialDate
  if  "Feb" is in word 3 of hold then put 2 & "/" into initialDate
  if  "Mar" is in word 3 of hold then put 3 & "/" into initialDate
  if  "Apr" is in word 3 of hold then put 4 & "/" into initialDate
  if  "May" is in word 3 of hold then put 5 & "/" into initialDate
  if  "Jun" is in word 3 of hold then put 6 & "/" into initialDate
  if  "Jul" is in word 3 of hold then put 7 & "/" into initialDate
  if  "Aug" is in word 3 of hold then put 8 & "/" into initialDate
  if  "Sep" is in word 3 of hold then put 9 & "/" into initialDate
  if  "Oct" is in word 3 of hold then put 10 & "/" into initialDate
  if  "Nov" is in word 3 of hold then put 11 & "/" into initialDate
  if  "Dec" is in word 3 of hold then put 12 & "/" into initialDate
  put word 2 of hold & "/" after word 1 of initialDate
  put word 4  of hold after word 2 of initialDate
  convert initialDate to seconds
  return initialDate
end fInternetDate

Thanks

Regards ... Bob

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Re: Tiger breaks hyperCard?

[Jeffrey Reynolds]

Does anyone know if standalones build with hypercard are also effected 
or is just in the authoring environments the problems show up with 
tiger? I just tested an old educational app i did (now a decade old and 
still running, amazing) on a g4 powerbook with tiger and it ran 
swimmingly. Now i have to dig up a G5 with tiger (waiting a bit before 
converting my G5).


thanks

Jeffrey Reynolds
6620 Michaels Dr
Bethesda, MD  20817

On Jun 30, 2005, at 8:17 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:



I have run fine Hypercard in Tiger with G3 and G4 machines.

The problems begin in a computer with G5 processor.
Hypercard in a G5 computer run bad, bad, bad and slw.


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Re: How do I make simple multiple user access app?

[Rob Cozens]

Hi Keith,

What's the very simplest way to build a basic card database stack which 
needs to be used by more than one person at once?


This is a simple data capture tool which creates a new card for each chunk 
of data that's entered (details on a new product) and spits out a 
tab-delimited text file to be sent off to another organisation for their use.


There's probably no need to alter existing data, but it would be necessary 
to let the user browse through previous entries. Easy enough: 
previous/next, popup menu listing the cards by product title, etc. We're 
talking just hundreds of items here, with simple sub-categories to keep 
browsing manageable if it grows much beyond that. But here's the twist...


It is likely to be left open on someone's screen, but it is also likely to 
be needed by one or two other people at the same time.


It's not clear to me if more than one user needs to add new cards to the 
app.  If they do not, just publish the app on the network and only allow 
write access to the person responsible for updating.


Assuming your needs are not that simple, you must script a means of 
coordinating updates to the database among different the different runtime 
instances of the app.  One method is to use a "control file" which a user 
must gain control of before updating the db.  This allows you to avoid 
using interprocess communications for coordination; but it is more 
vulnerable to data collision.  The other alternative is a client-server 
approach, which avoids data collision by funneling all db access through a 
server app.  This is my preferred approach; but it involves scripting for 
interprocess communication.  The client-server approach is exemplified in 
SDB .


One other note, either method also requires a mechanism to allow one user 
to lock a record to prevent others from changing it while she is working 
with it.  SDB  allows both explicit (ie: by record) and automatic (ie: last 
record accessed) record locking.


Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
 Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

 from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) 


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Re: How do I make simple multiple user access app?

[Damien Girard]

I have make some database before, and I use these method :

A stack for each user (in the user directories), and work with field --> There 
are a problem : With more than 1000 entries, the stack is really big, and 
slow...

A text file, with separator (good, but can be slow if the engine is not well 
writted).

And, a XML file (my favorite), fast, extensible, and can be used by more than 
1 person at the same time (but you need to save the XML tree into the file).
I am using XML in all my software, and I have never got a problem with XML.

But, the best, for you, is to use a Database server (Oracle, MySql...).

-- 

Girard Damien
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Le Jeudi 30 Juin 2005 09:44, keith a écrit :
> I've been working things out as much as possible by using the
> documentation and searching my email archives, but I'd appreciate
> some live input on this if y'all don't mind!
>
> What's the very simplest way to build a basic card database stack
> which needs to be used by more than one person at once?
>
> This is a simple data capture tool which creates a new card for each
> chunk of data that's entered (details on a new product) and spits out
> a tab-delimited text file to be sent off to another organisation for
> their use.
>
> There's probably no need to alter existing data, but it would be
> necessary to let the user browse through previous entries. Easy
> enough: previous/next, popup menu listing the cards by product title,
> etc. We're talking just hundreds of items here, with simple
> sub-categories to keep browsing manageable if it grows much beyond
> that. But here's the twist...
>
> It is likely to be left open on someone's screen, but it is also
> likely to be needed by one or two other people at the same time. The
> information (the cards with their fields and other controls) needs to
> be collated/kept in one location (i.e. run from the local network
> file server?), not as separate collections of data on different
> 'single user' machines.
>
> To start with at least there's no chance of a true server database
> such as MySQL. So, how is multiple user access handled in a situation
> like this, where it is all down to Revolution? What's the simplest
> solution, both in terms of ease of creation and robustness, that
> you'd suggest? (This aspect could be done in FileMaker, but that app
> just makes me want to scream when it comes to development control. It
> is as inflexible and blinkered as Revolution is flexible and
> open-ended! :-)
>
> Thanks in advance, my fingers are crossed!
>
> k
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Re: design problem: fonts and spacing

[Charles Hartman]

On Jun 30, 2005, at 9:34 AM, Mark Greenberg wrote:


Charles,
I'd be tempted to show the stressed syllables in bold or blue  
or some other visually different format within the line.  That way  
the text and the scansion line will never be out of sync.  This  
solution won't account for consecutive syllables of similar stress  
though.


I'm afraid that won't work -- first, because of the problem you note,  
and second, because this tutorial is meant to teach the traditional  
method(s) of scansion, and this system of notation is very firmly  
established in the tradition.


You might want to explore two other possible ways to solve the  
problem: Unicode probably has a diacritic mark for the traditional  
stressed and unstressed symbols, and there is a way to get the  
pixel coordinates of a particular character, though I don't recall  
the function's name.  Perhaps someone on the list can tell what the  
function is.  Then you could line up the text and scan lines.  (I  
used the latter for math equations in which one number must line up  
vertically with another.  As I recall, it worked well.)


I guess I don't quite see how that would work in detail, but I can  
look for it. It sounds, though, like an _awful_ lot of very finicky  
work, on every individual example, of which there are a pretty large  
number.


Is there some HTML-tag or RTF-tag approach to this problem?

I gather that text in any field always _has_ both an HTML and a  
Unicode representation, because you can always "get HTMLText" or "get  
RTFText" on these properties. Are those stored with the text itself?  
How _is_ text (in a field) stored internally by Rev? Knowing that  
might help me figure out the most efficient way to specify spacing in  
some parts of my text.


Thanks for the suggestions.

Charles Hartman



Mark Greenberg

On Thursday, June 30, 2005, at 05:17 AM, Charles Hartman wrote:



I'm reviving an old Hypercard tutorial on English Metrics -- how to
scan metrical verse in English. It contains lots of scansions, which
have this general form:

 x  /   |  /   /   |  x  (/) |  x/ |  x (/)
 A sight so touching in its majesty

As you can see, the spacing of the two lines _in relation to each
other_ is critical.

I'm finding that when I close and reopen my stack, the spacing of the
upper (scansion) line is sometimes off -- too condensed or too spaced
out. I set the Font for the whole stack file to Palatino. I'm also
not sure if that's a good idea, because I haven't yet been able to
ttest whether it will work on Windows. I'm developing on OS X.

One solution is to put all the scansion-line-pairs into Courier --
monospaced, universally available, and really ugly. Another is to do
all the scansions as graphic images, but there are hundreds of them.

Is there a better solution?



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Charles Hartman
Professor of English, Poet in Residence
Connecticut College
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*the Scandroid* is at cherry.conncoll.edu/cohar/Programs





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Re: SPAM

[Thomas McGrath III]

Stephen,

It sounds like a big coincidence that you just re-rigged your email 
addresses and now after three years you are getting spam on the one 
address.


I would think through your method of re-rigging and see if there might 
be a hole. Just in case.


Tom
On Jun 30, 2005, at 9:40 AM, Stephen Barncard wrote:

A few weeks ago I re-rigged all my email addresses, and have enjoyed 0 
spam for several months, not even in spam filters.




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Re: SPAM

[Stephen Barncard]

Thanks Eric,
That's not the address I use on this list, but I understand the ease 
of 'decoding'.


My point: the method of substituting "AT" for "@" is no longer useful 
for deterring spam. Everyone on this list is vulnerable. This doesn't 
seem to have been a problem for 3 years for me until today.


If I get more spam I'm going to have to kill the email address, unsub 
and resub with a new address.


A few weeks ago I re-rigged all my email addresses, and have enjoyed 
0 spam for several months, not even in spam filters.


Perhaps someday we can get a more secure list that isn't quite so public.


Hi Stephen,

Here is a part of some code:

HREF="http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution";>stephen 
at barncard.comBarncard site HREF="http://www.barncard.com";>http://www.barncard.com


A regex and a replacement... to get [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quite easy :-(

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RE: How do I make simple multiple user access app?

[Lynch, Jonathan]

This simplest way, in my opinion, is this...

Have the data for each record be stored in a text file that is placed in
a folder that is only used for storing these records.

Have a rev app that allows the user to access the records as needed, but
not all records at once.

Whenever someone opens a record, have the app place the word "open " &
the users ID & whatever character you use as your itemdelimiter [I
prefer numtochar(28)] before all the text in the file.

When someone else tries to access that record, the app will see that
word 1 of item 1 of the file is the word "open", and that it is open for
a different user ID - and will know that it can only be opened in a
read-only mode.

You can create an override handler as well, so that the new user can
assume control of the open file, if necessary, in case the first user
failed to close the record for some reason. 

When finished with a record, the first item should be changed to "not
open", and then the record will be accessible to other users.

Storing information in separate text files is tricky at first, but once
you get used to it, it is very powerful. Doing it this way means your
stack does not constantly get larger as the dataset grows. It also means
you are not constantly saving and resaving your program, which increases
the odds of your stack becoming corrupted.

Another advantage to this approach is that you do not need to have your
program installed on every user's machine. Just have it on the shared
drive, and link to it from every user's desktop. Since it loads up into
memory when it runs, and since you are not saving changes to the stack
itself, it does not cause any problems to have multiple users running
from the same executable file. (This is on Windows - don't know if this
is also true for Mac or Linux)

The advantage to having just one executable that everyone runs is that
when you make a change to it, that change will show up for every user
whenever they restart the program.

Cheers,

Jonathan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of keith
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 3:44 AM
To: Revolution List
Subject: How do I make simple multiple user access app?

I've been working things out as much as possible by using the 
documentation and searching my email archives, but I'd appreciate 
some live input on this if y'all don't mind!

What's the very simplest way to build a basic card database stack 
which needs to be used by more than one person at once?

This is a simple data capture tool which creates a new card for each 
chunk of data that's entered (details on a new product) and spits out 
a tab-delimited text file to be sent off to another organisation for 
their use.

There's probably no need to alter existing data, but it would be 
necessary to let the user browse through previous entries. Easy 
enough: previous/next, popup menu listing the cards by product title, 
etc. We're talking just hundreds of items here, with simple 
sub-categories to keep browsing manageable if it grows much beyond 
that. But here's the twist...

It is likely to be left open on someone's screen, but it is also 
likely to be needed by one or two other people at the same time. The 
information (the cards with their fields and other controls) needs to 
be collated/kept in one location (i.e. run from the local network 
file server?), not as separate collections of data on different 
'single user' machines.

To start with at least there's no chance of a true server database 
such as MySQL. So, how is multiple user access handled in a situation 
like this, where it is all down to Revolution? What's the simplest 
solution, both in terms of ease of creation and robustness, that 
you'd suggest? (This aspect could be done in FileMaker, but that app 
just makes me want to scream when it comes to development control. It 
is as inflexible and blinkered as Revolution is flexible and 
open-ended! :-)

Thanks in advance, my fingers are crossed!

k
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Re: design problem: fonts and spacing

[Mark Greenberg]

Charles,
	I'd be tempted to show the stressed syllables in bold or blue or some 
other visually different format within the line.  That way the text and 
the scansion line will never be out of sync.  This solution won't 
account for consecutive syllables of similar stress though.
	You might want to explore two other possible ways to solve the 
problem: Unicode probably has a diacritic mark for the traditional 
stressed and unstressed symbols, and there is a way to get the pixel 
coordinates of a particular character, though I don't recall the 
function's name.  Perhaps someone on the list can tell what the 
function is.  Then you could line up the text and scan lines.  (I used 
the latter for math equations in which one number must line up 
vertically with another.  As I recall, it worked well.)


Mark Greenberg

On Thursday, June 30, 2005, at 05:17 AM, Charles Hartman wrote:


I'm reviving an old Hypercard tutorial on English Metrics -- how to
scan metrical verse in English. It contains lots of scansions, which
have this general form:

 x  /   |  /   /   |  x  (/) |  x/ |  x (/)
 A sight so touching in its majesty

As you can see, the spacing of the two lines _in relation to each
other_ is critical.

I'm finding that when I close and reopen my stack, the spacing of the
upper (scansion) line is sometimes off -- too condensed or too spaced
out. I set the Font for the whole stack file to Palatino. I'm also
not sure if that's a good idea, because I haven't yet been able to
ttest whether it will work on Windows. I'm developing on OS X.

One solution is to put all the scansion-line-pairs into Courier --
monospaced, universally available, and really ugly. Another is to do
all the scansions as graphic images, but there are hundreds of them.

Is there a better solution?


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Re: Runrev bug, or I have made an error ?

[Damien Girard]

Le Jeudi 30 Juin 2005 15:08, Klaus Major a écrit :
> Bonjour Damien,
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am using runrev 2.6 under linux, and I have a strange bug.
> >
> > I need to get a list of font, and put a tab before each line of the
> > fontlist
> > (is it for a font menu).
> >
> > This is my script :
> >
> >   put fontnames() into TheList
> >   sort TheList
> >
> >   put "0" into LineToDo
> >   repeat for each line 1 in TheList
> > put LineToDo +1 into LineToDo
> > put tab before line LineToDo of TheList
> >   end repeat
> >
> > And the problem is in the result :
> >
> >  The Result
> >
> > andale sans
> >  ...
> > urw chancery l
> > urw gothic l
> > urw palladio l
> > utopia
> >
> >  /The Result
> >
> > The problem, is that all font have got a tab before it, but not 2
> > last line :
> > urw palladio l
> > utopia
> >
> > For me, I didn't see any bug in the script, but this seem to
> > doesn't work...
>
> actually the "repeat for each" control stucture is meant to be READ-
> only!
> And thus there may be strange results if you try to change the lines...
> And your syntax is not quite correct.
>
> Try this:
> ...
>put fontnames() into TheList
>sort TheList
>repeat for each line L in TheList
>   put TAB & L & CR after new_list
>end repeat
>delete char -1 of new_list
>## delete trailing CR
>## c'est ça :-)
>   ...
>
> Hope that helps...
>
> > Thanks.
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.major-k.de
>
> ___

I have learn something in the repeat (I have learn Revolution alone !)

repeat for each  in Thelist

I have found the problem, for have my script work :

  put fontnames() into TheList
  sort TheList
  put the number of lines of TheList into TheCounter
  
  put "0" into LineToDo
  repeat for TheCounter Times
put LineToDo +1 into LineToDo
put tab before line LineToDo of TheList
  end repeat

Now, this work fine. (I think this script is well writted for me)

-- 

Girard Damien
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Runrev bug, or I have made an error ?

[Björnke von Gierke]

Hi Damien

First, try to not name anything with a number, especially stacks, but 
also variables.
Second: Its not good to modify the variable you use in a "repeat for 
each" loop (in this case "TheList")
Third: If you want to add one line to a variable it is faster to say 
"add one to x" then "put x + 1 into x"

I suggest you try this script instead:

  put fontnames() into TheList
  sort TheList

  repeat for each line x in TheList
put tab & x & return after theResult
  end repeat
  put char 1 to -1 of theResult into theResult --to delete the last 
return


greetings
Björnke

On Jun 30 2005, at 14:53, Damien Girard wrote:


Hi all,

I am using runrev 2.6 under linux, and I have a strange bug.

I need to get a list of font, and put a tab before each line of the 
fontlist

(is it for a font menu).

This is my script :

  put fontnames() into TheList
  sort TheList

  put "0" into LineToDo
  repeat for each line 1 in TheList
put LineToDo +1 into LineToDo
put tab before line LineToDo of TheList
  end repeat

And the problem is in the result :

 The Result

andale sans
andy mt
bell mt
bitstream charter
bitstream vera sans
bitstream vera sans mono
bitstream vera serif
century schoolbook l
charter
clean
courier
courier 10 pitch
cumberland amt
fixed
helvetica
lucida
lucidabright
lucidatypewriter
luxi mono
luxi sans
luxi serif
monotype sorts
new century schoolbook
nimbus mono l
nimbus roman no9 l
nimbus sans l
segoe
suse sans
suse sans mono
suse serif
tahoma
terminal
thorndale amt
times
urw bookman l
urw chancery l
urw gothic l
urw palladio l
utopia

 /The Result

The problem, is that all font have got a tab before it, but not 2 last 
line :

urw palladio l
utopia

For me, I didn't see any bug in the script, but this seem to doesn't 
work...


Thanks.
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--

http://contest.wecode.org
Now running: the first ChatRev coding contest!
sponsors:
Altuit
Andre Garzia
Fourth World
Karl Becker
Runtime Revolution
TidBITS in cooperation with eHUG

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Re: Runrev bug, or I have made an error ?

[Klaus Major]

Bonjour Damien,


Hi all,

I am using runrev 2.6 under linux, and I have a strange bug.

I need to get a list of font, and put a tab before each line of the  
fontlist

(is it for a font menu).

This is my script :

  put fontnames() into TheList
  sort TheList

  put "0" into LineToDo
  repeat for each line 1 in TheList
put LineToDo +1 into LineToDo
put tab before line LineToDo of TheList
  end repeat

And the problem is in the result :

 The Result

andale sans
 ...
urw chancery l
urw gothic l
urw palladio l
utopia

 /The Result

The problem, is that all font have got a tab before it, but not 2  
last line :

urw palladio l
utopia

For me, I didn't see any bug in the script, but this seem to  
doesn't work...


actually the "repeat for each" control stucture is meant to be READ- 
only!

And thus there may be strange results if you try to change the lines...
And your syntax is not quite correct.

Try this:
...
  put fontnames() into TheList
  sort TheList
  repeat for each line L in TheList
 put TAB & L & CR after new_list
  end repeat
  delete char -1 of new_list
  ## delete trailing CR
  ## c'est ça :-)
 ...

Hope that helps...


Thanks.


Regards

Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de

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Re: Runrev bug, or I have made an error ?

[Eric Chatonet]

Bonjour Damien,

You use an integer as a variable name :-)
And Rev does not crash: kudos!

May be some more generic approach like the following might help you:

put InsertTab(the fontnames,1) after tMenu

function InsertTab pList,pNumOfTabs
  sort pList
  repeat for each line tLine in pList
put tab & tLine & cr after tFormattedList
  end repeat
  delete last char of tFormattedList
  return tFormattedList
end InsertTab


Le 30 juin 05 à 14:53, Damien Girard a écrit :

I need to get a list of font, and put a tab before each line of the  
fontlist

(is it for a font menu).

This is my script :

  put fontnames() into TheList
  sort TheList

  put "0" into LineToDo
  repeat for each line 1 in TheList
put LineToDo +1 into LineToDo
put tab before line LineToDo of TheList
  end repeat



Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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Runrev bug, or I have made an error ?

[Damien Girard]

Hi all,

I am using runrev 2.6 under linux, and I have a strange bug.

I need to get a list of font, and put a tab before each line of the fontlist 
(is it for a font menu).

This is my script :

  put fontnames() into TheList
  sort TheList
  
  put "0" into LineToDo
  repeat for each line 1 in TheList
put LineToDo +1 into LineToDo
put tab before line LineToDo of TheList
  end repeat
  
And the problem is in the result :

 The Result

andale sans
andy mt
bell mt
bitstream charter
bitstream vera sans
bitstream vera sans mono
bitstream vera serif
century schoolbook l
charter
clean
courier
courier 10 pitch
cumberland amt
fixed
helvetica
lucida
lucidabright
lucidatypewriter
luxi mono
luxi sans
luxi serif
monotype sorts
new century schoolbook
nimbus mono l
nimbus roman no9 l
nimbus sans l
segoe
suse sans
suse sans mono
suse serif
tahoma
terminal
thorndale amt
times
urw bookman l
urw chancery l
urw gothic l
urw palladio l
utopia

 /The Result

The problem, is that all font have got a tab before it, but not 2 last line : 
urw palladio l
utopia

For me, I didn't see any bug in the script, but this seem to doesn't work...

Thanks.
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Re: SPAM

[Eric Chatonet]

Hi Stephen,

Here is a part of some code:

http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use- 
revolution">stephen at barncard.comBarncard site  
http://www.barncard.com";>http://www.barncard.com


A regex and a replacement... to get [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quite easy :-(

Le 30 juin 05 à 14:06, Stephen Barncard a écrit :


Not in the clear unless they decode the "AT" back to @.
If that's true we're all vulnerable.



Hi Stephen,

You know, you can access this list from Google:
type  into the Google  
search box and you'll see your email address 'in the clear.' All a  
Spammer has to do is scrape the Google version of this list and  
they've got it.


Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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Re: what happened to my posts?

[xbury . cs]

Well, i was just holding my breath and nothing... ;)

now i can breathe ;)

Thanks Eric!
Xav

On 30/06/2005 08:43:26 use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>Hi Xavier,
>
>The same for me so I reposted... and they appeared 24 hours later...
>Be patient ;-)
>Simple new server start problem...
>
>Le 30 juin 05 à 08:18, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I posted 3 or 4 emails since yesterday from my home mail adand none
>> made
>> it in the list?
>>
>> Any clues? TIA
>>
>> cheers
>> Xavier
>
>Best Regards from Paris,
>
>Eric Chatonet.
>
>So Smart Software
>
>For institutions, companies and associations
>Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
>Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
>Free plugins and tutorials on my website
>
>Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
>Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
>Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
>
>
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any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
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Re: design problem: fonts and spacing

[Stephen Barncard]

Your display will not view like you want unless you use a monospaced 
font such as Courier, Monaco or Tahoma.   Verdana, maybe, I'm not 
sure.


Palatino is a proportional font. Courier can be ugly, I don't use it 
myself except for code.





I'm finding that when I close and reopen my stack, the spacing of 
the upper (scansion) line is sometimes off -- too condensed or too 
spaced out. I set the Font for the whole stack file to Palatino. I'm 
also not sure if that's a good idea, because I haven't yet been able 
to ttest whether it will work on Windows. I'm developing on OS X.


One solution is to put all the scansion-line-pairs into Courier -- 
monospaced, universally available, and really ugly. Another is to do 
all the scansions as graphic images, but there are hundreds of them.


Is there a better solution?

Charles Hartman

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Re: file name or dir changed from the desktop

[Eric Chatonet]

Hi Scott,

That's a bad user behaviour (probably rare) but...
I don't know (may be others will) how to get the information from the  
desktop manager but when an user saves, you could check first if the  
file does exists and act accordingly.


Le 30 juin 05 à 12:13, Scott Morrow a écrit :

I'm wondering if there is an established procedure for dealing  
with this situation.


1.) the user opens a stack file
2.) the user leaves the app (with the file still open), goes to the  
desktop and manually changes the file name (or directory)

3.) the user returns to the app and saves the file

For me, this results in a new file with the original name  being  
created since I haven't discovered a way to learn what the new file  
name (or directory) is.


Although changing the file name of an open file seems like a bad  
idea, I'm sure one of my users will do it and then get confused  
when their  newly named file doesn't contain the most recent  
changes.   I noticed that Appleworks 6 (OSX) doesn't have a problem  
with the file name being changed.


Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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Re: listserver

[Eric Chatonet]

Hi Jim,

Obviously, you are are referenced twice in the RunRev list database.
Send a mail to list mom: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
She is very obliging :-)

Le 30 juin 05 à 14:04, Jim Bufalini a écrit :

While we are on the subject of spam, etc., is it possible to be  
subscribed

to the listserver with the same email twice?

I'm getting two of everything posted to this list. I have a duplicates
remover in my email program, but it would be a lot easier, if I  
didn't have

to run it all the time.


Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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Re: SPAM

[Stephen Barncard]

Not in the clear unless they decode the "AT" back to @.
If that's true we're all vulnerable.


Hi Stephen,

You know, you can access this list from Google:
type  into the Google search 
box and you'll see your email address 'in the clear.' All a Spammer 
has to do is scrape the Google version of this list and they've got 
it.


best,

Chipp

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listserver

[Jim Bufalini]

While we are on the subject of spam, etc., is it possible to be subscribed
to the listserver with the same email twice?

I'm getting two of everything posted to this list. I have a duplicates
remover in my email program, but it would be a lot easier, if I didn't have
to run it all the time.

Jim
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design problem: fonts and spacing

[Charles Hartman]

I'm reviving an old Hypercard tutorial on English Metrics -- how to  
scan metrical verse in English. It contains lots of scansions, which  
have this general form:


x  /   |  /   /   |  x  (/) |  x/ |  x (/)
A sight so touching in its majesty

As you can see, the spacing of the two lines _in relation to each  
other_ is critical.


I'm finding that when I close and reopen my stack, the spacing of the  
upper (scansion) line is sometimes off -- too condensed or too spaced  
out. I set the Font for the whole stack file to Palatino. I'm also  
not sure if that's a good idea, because I haven't yet been able to  
ttest whether it will work on Windows. I'm developing on OS X.


One solution is to put all the scansion-line-pairs into Courier --  
monospaced, universally available, and really ugly. Another is to do  
all the scansions as graphic images, but there are hundreds of them.


Is there a better solution?

Charles Hartman
Professor of English, Poet in Residence
Connecticut College
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*the Scandroid* is at cherry.conncoll.edu/cohar/Programs

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file name or dir changed from the desktop

[Scott Morrow]

Hello,
I'm wondering if there is an established procedure for dealing with 
this situation.


1.) the user opens a stack file
2.) the user leaves the app (with the file still open), goes to the 
desktop and manually changes the file name (or directory)

3.) the user returns to the app and saves the file

For me, this results in a new file with the original name  being 
created since I haven't discovered a way to learn what the new file 
name (or directory) is.


Although changing the file name of an open file seems like a bad idea, 
I'm sure one of my users will do it and then get confused when their  
newly named file doesn't contain the most recent changes.   I noticed 
that Appleworks 6 (OSX) doesn't have a problem with the file name being 
changed.


-Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust !)
web http://elementarysoftware.com/
email   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-

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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Alex Tweedly]

Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:


At 12:27 PM +0100 6/29/2005, Alex Tweedly wrote:

Or turn off the auto-format feature, for heaven's sake. It's not as 
though it were difficult, if you want to manually format scripts to 
your liking.



It prevents "live-formatting" - but it still allows TAB to reformat 
the entire handler, thereby destroying any manual formatting.



Would it be too complicated to not press the Tab key nor choose 
"Format This Handler", if you don't want the script reformatted?


Yes, it would be,. It's like having the "Page Down" key be a "permanent 
delete" key, and saying "Just don't press it".


Tab is probably the third most frequently used key on my keyboard (after 
return and delete). It's used to move from one control to another, to 
switch windows and apps and (in the 12 hours a day I use Rev but not the 
script editor, or programs other than Rev) to separate items and 
generally to format text. Trying to get my fingers to avoid it is indeed 
difficult.


(Of course, I personally use it all the time because I *want* Rev's 
auto-formatting - I just wish it was even more automatic; but I was 
responding to your earlier suggestion from the POV of someone who didn't 
want it :-)




--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



--
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Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.2/29 - Release Date: 27/06/2005

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Re: newTool?

[Eric Chatonet]

Hi Malte,

Le 30 juin 05 à 11:25, Malte Brill a écrit :


Hi all,

seems as if the newTool message is trapped in the frontscript and  
doesn´t get sent to the card. Is this intended behaviour?


I was unable to find a newTool handler somewhere in the whole IDE.
But I confirm: this message seems not to be sent with Rev 2.6, 2.5.1,  
2.5, 2.2.1, 2.0 and 1.1.1 (all tested on Mac OS X and Mac OS 9 for  
the older).

Something like a ghost message?


From the docs:
Handle the newTool message if you want to change something when a  
tool is chosen.

No way to use it in the IDE?

Thanks,
Malte



Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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newTool?

[Malte Brill]

Hi all,

seems as if the newTool message is trapped in the frontscript and 
doesn´t get sent to the card. Is this intended behaviour?


From the docs:

Handle the newTool message if you want to change something when a tool 
is chosen.


No way to use it in the IDE?

Thanks,

Malte
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