Re: bugs

[Geoff Canyon]

On Apr 10, 2006, at 10:11 PM, Tariel Gogoberidze wrote:


On Apr 9, 2006, at 1:00 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:


Here is an example of something slightly larger than a single line
(and actually useful) that I think is bug-free:




on stableSetSize pID,W,H
   -- sets the width and height of pID
   -- while keeping the topleft the same
   try
 put the rect of pID into tRect
   catch tSomeError
 exit stableSetSize
   end try
   if W is a number then put item 1 of tRect + W into item 3 of tRect
   if H is a number then put item 2 of tRect + H into item 4 of tRect
   set the rect of pID to tRect
end stableSetSize



Assuming correct input  it seems to be bug free. However..

on mouseUp
  put "button 1" into PID
  put 500.2 into W -- !
  put 50.3 into H
  stableSetSize pID,W,H
end mouseUp

Throws execution error here "rectangle does not have 4 points"

:)


In discussion with a non-Rev-using friend earlier today (what, you  
don't spend your spare time discussing esoteric issues with your  
friends?) the idea of overflow was pointed out to me.


Note in my defense that the code is proof against non-integers, non- 
numbers, and negative numbers. So the only thing that should break it  
is too-large numbers.


That said, I noticed in the docs that if the lockLoc of an object is  
true, it resizes from the topleft. I thought this would be a good  
thing, but it means that I have to lock the screen in order to not  
show first the width changing, then the height. It also doesn't  
handle cds or groups, etc. So I stuck with the rectangle routine, but  
with more data checks:


on stableSetSize pID,W,H
  -- sets the width of and height of pID
  -- while keeping the topleft the same
  try
put the rect of pID into tRect
  catch tSomeErr
exit stableSetSize
  end try
  if W is a number then
if word 1 of pID is among the items of "image,img" and \
the platform is "MacOS" then
  put min(4096,W) into W  -- this is a temp
end if
put min(32767,W + item 1 of tRect) into item 3 of tRect
  end if
  if H is a number then put min(32767,H + item 2 of tRect) into item  
4 of tRect

  set the rect of pID to tRect
end stableSetSize

Maybe that will hold up a bit longer.

regards,

gc
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Re: Revolution "software" to black listed nations

[Sivakatirswami]

Aloha, James:

Thank you for the thoughtful response.  One other member of our team  
here who drafted the EULA for the Digital Edition of Hinduism Today


(see http://www.hinduismtoday.com/digital/  for the "product" in  
question")


Pointed out to me the same thing "Its in the Rev license, so whether  
or not the stacks might pass under US law, to comply with RunRev, we  
can't do it..." Something I glossed over years ago.


OK, seems it's as simple as removing those countries from the pull  
downlist on the web site and one is then "compliant" ... since we do  
not actually ship any physical product, that's the only mode of  
delivery there is... I can't imagine that one is supposed to start  
checking incoming GET requests for IPs in those nations... I doubt  
they have dial up ISP's in Bagdad at the moment.


Sivakatirswami


On Apr 09, 2006, at 5:04 AM, James Spencer wrote:



On Apr 8, 2006, at 8:53 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote:

Has anyone studied out carefully the issue of shipping Rev stacks  
to countries on the US state department embargo list?  These being  
currently (found in many typical EULA's)


"Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, Syria, military or  
police entities in South Africa, or any other country to which the  
United States has embargoed goods.


Would there not be a difference between

1) the Rev IDE which give users tools to build software.
2) a standalone which does not.

in terms of the embargo? Where do we find the precise definition  
of "software" that should not be shipped to these countries?


Could a Standalone be conceived of as a "product" of software,  
like a PDF is a Product of Acrobat, but not Acrobat itself. I mean  
I can't imagine Adobe is breaking laws when some North Korean  
downloads a PDF from the web. Similalry, I'm wondering, if somone  
downloads a standalone application built with Revolution if this  
is a violation of the embargo or not.


Unlike kee, I am a lawyer but know nothing about security law,  
ITAR, international law, or any other issue directly related to  
this question other than what I quickly looked up at the State  
Department web site so what I'm saying here is NOT legal advice.   
If you are close enough to the edge to really have a question about  
this, you are nuts if you don't go hire a real lawyer to check it out.


kee has addressed the general issues and I am writing to make four  
points:


1) ITAR and the other law I looked at this morning, doesn't play  
games around whether the item or service is "software" or a  
"product" of software.  It is generic and covers items and  
information that can be used for military purposes.


2) Forget US law for a moment, your Revolution license prohibits  
the distribution of "Created Software" to embargoed countries.   
"Created Software" includes "stacks and files" created using  
Revolution so again, it doesn't matter whether you try to call your  
stacks a "product" of software or whether it is a standalone.  Note  
that the license applies whether you are in the United States (and  
therefore subject to US export restrictions) or not.


3) A PDF contains no executable code and in fact contains nothing  
that would violate the embargo other than the information contained  
in the PDF.  Thus the example of Acrobat as versus PDF's created  
with Acrobat is not on point.  The same may or may not be true for  
a Rev stack not compiled as a standalone but again, the license  
nevertheless prohibits you exporting the stack to Iran.


4) In any case, if you export a prohibited item to an embargoed  
country, say a PDF that shows how to build an atomic bomb, it is  
you that has a problem if anyone does.  Adobe would not be breaking  
the law assuming they have distributed Acrobat under the terms of  
the G-DEST; you would.  Similarly, if you use Rev to create a stack  
that controls an air defense system and sell it to the North Korean  
Air Force, big brother will come looking for you, not Revolution,  
not because Revolution is in Scotland and not subject to US law,  
but because they aren't the one exporting to North Korea.


Whether you are in the United States and are subject to the embargo  
or are not in the US and thus are only subject to the Rev license,  
the question becomes how much you have to do to comply.  I would  
suggest that is going to depend on what your product is.  If you  
have produced a stack that you are distributing as freeware and  
which only contains pictures of yourself that you took with your  
new iMac and it's built in camera, I would probably not pay any  
attention at all other than to refuse to reply if I got an order  
with a return address in P'yongyang.  If, on the other hand, you  
have written a stack for using your iMac to shoot down US spy  
satellites I probably would consult an attorney, regardless of how  
I intended to distribute the stack.  In between, use your judgment.


Spence


James P. Spencer
Rochester, MN

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: bugs

[Tariel Gogoberidze]

On Apr 9, 2006, at 1:00 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:


Here is an example of something slightly larger than a single line
(and actually useful) that I think is bug-free:




on stableSetSize pID,W,H
   -- sets the width and height of pID
   -- while keeping the topleft the same
   try
 put the rect of pID into tRect
   catch tSomeError
 exit stableSetSize
   end try
   if W is a number then put item 1 of tRect + W into item 3 of tRect
   if H is a number then put item 2 of tRect + H into item 4 of tRect
   set the rect of pID to tRect
end stableSetSize



Assuming correct input  it seems to be bug free. However..

on mouseUp
  put "button 1" into PID
  put 500.2 into W -- !
  put 50.3 into H
  stableSetSize pID,W,H
end mouseUp

Throws execution error here "rectangle does not have 4 points"

:)

best regards
Tariel

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Re: Media on MacWorld

[Robert Brenstein]

Promo = good... typo = bad?

Not sure what this sentence in the promo means...
"A scripting engine is included, along with effects ling interactive 
blending, transparency, transitions, animations, anti-aliased vector 
graphics support, QuickTime interactivity, text-to-speech functions 
and more"


What are" ...effects ling interactive blending"? s/b "like" me 
thinks. Or is Safari doing a weird word replacement?


Jim



Safari is alright :) It's sloppy writing or more likely editing of 
RR's press release. Mr Cohen should be ashamed. How does one drag and 
drop buttons using a customizable backdrop? Last sentence is also a 
twister.


Robert
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Re: iCalendar or vCard files

[Bill Vlahos]

I've used vCARD import and export in a program I'm developing. What  
is it you need help with? The format isn't too bad but it just  
requires a bunch of code.


Bill Vlahos

On Apr 4, 2006, at 8:23 AM, Terry Vogelaar wrote:


Hi all,

Is there anyone who made an attempt to write a stack that can  
interpret and edit iCal files or vCard files, like used by Apple's  
iCal and Addressbook?


Terry


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Re: How do I get a list of all controls on a card?

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi Xavier,

Use these handlers as follows:

put the objects of this cd into myList
get the objectIDs of this cd

Put the handlers into the stack script of your mainstack or in a 
stack that is in use. Mind linewraps.



getProp objects
  repeat with x = 1 to number of controls of the target
put the name of control x of the target & return after myList
  end repeat
  sort myList
  return myList
end objects

getProp objectIDs
  repeat with x = 1 to number of controls of the target
put the id of control x of the target & return after myList
  end repeat
  sort myList
  return myList
end objectIDs


Best regards,

Mark


Xavier Bourque wrote:

Hi,

My stack lets the user add and remove text fields and rectangles on a  card.

I want to gather a list of all the text fields and rectangles when  the 
user is done adding/deleting them.


How do I get a list of all the controls on a card?

Thanks.



--

Consultant and Software Engineer
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.economy-x-talk.com

eHUG coordinator
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.ehug.info

Advertise with us and reach 1000 truely interested internet 
users every month. See http://economy-x-talk.com/advertise.html 
for more information.


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Re: Media on MacWorld

[Troy Rollins]

On Apr 10, 2006, at 8:42 PM, Jim MacConnell wrote:

What are" ...effects ling interactive blending"? s/b "like" me  
thinks. Or is Safari doing a weird word replacement?


'leet speak for "including", I guess.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


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Re: How do I get a list of all controls on a card?

[Phil Davis]

Here's one way:

on mouseUp
  put controlList() into tMyList
  answer tMyList
end mouseUp


function controlList pTargetCard
  # 'pTargetCard' = optional; the long name of a card. If not
  #  supplied by caller, it is assumed to be the current card.

  if pTargetCard = empty then
put the long name of this card into pTargetCard
  end if

  put empty into tList -- not technically necesary
  put (the number of controls of pTargetCard) into xMax
  repeat with x = 1 to xMax
put (the name of control x of pTargetCard) & cr after tList
  end repeat
  delete last char of tList -- the trailing CR
  return tList
end controlList


In 'controlList' you could collect 'the name' of each control, or 'the 
short name' or 'the long name' depending on your purpose.


Hope this helps -
Phil Davis


Xavier Bourque wrote:

Hi,

My stack lets the user add and remove text fields and rectangles on a  
card.


I want to gather a list of all the text fields and rectangles when  the 
user is done adding/deleting them.


How do I get a list of all the controls on a card?

Thanks.

-- Xavier Bourque
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Re: Media on MacWorld

[Jim MacConnell]

Promo = good... typo = bad?

Not sure what this sentence in the promo means...
"A scripting engine is included, along with effects ling interactive  
blending, transparency, transitions, animations, anti-aliased vector  
graphics support, QuickTime interactivity, text-to-speech functions  
and more"


What are" ...effects ling interactive blending"? s/b "like" me  
thinks. Or is Safari doing a weird word replacement?


Jim

On Apr 10, 2006, at 1:14 PM, Mark Swindell wrote:

Here's a link to the promo blurb for Media on MacWorld's site.  One  
comment so far...


http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/04/10/revolution/index.php
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just in case

[Michael J. Lew]

I'm guessing that this is unnecessary...

Percodan is for treatment of severe pain, not for frustration. 
Excessive use can lead to addiction and it almost always causes 
severe constipation.


Prune juice is probably a better accompaniment than wine ;-)

At 8:39 AM -0500 10/4/06, Judy Perry wrote:


Anybody sharing the love with Percodan/Percocet?  Will share Wine
Bottle...

I'm willing to give it a generous try...

:-)

Judy


--
Michael J. Lew

Senior Lecturer
Department of Pharmacology
The University of Melbourne
Parkville 3010
Victoria
Australia

Phone +613 8344 8304

**
New email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
**
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How do I get a list of all controls on a card?

[Xavier Bourque]

Hi,

My stack lets the user add and remove text fields and rectangles on a  
card.


I want to gather a list of all the text fields and rectangles when  
the user is done adding/deleting them.


How do I get a list of all the controls on a card?

Thanks.

-- Xavier Bourque
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Re: Media on MacWorld

[Malte Brill]

Hi Mark,

I just added a comment, as the first one deals with my favourite 
Revolution use. Multimedia. :-)


Thanks for the link,

Malte

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RE: Rev media page not working properly

[Lynn Fredricks]

 > > I'm just curious about revmedia. When I hover over the 
> graphic on the 
> > revmedia page my cursor changes to indicate a hyperlink, however, 
> > there is no mousedown action.
> > 
> > Is this only usable with IE. I use mozilla. 

Top men are on it :-)

Best regards,


Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution, Ltd


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Re: Field Trouble

[Thomas McGrath III]

scott,

I was having trouble with error windows 'hidden' behind one of my  
stacks and was getting this erratic behavior until I realized what  
was going on. But I also had trouble in the past when using OSX with  
Shapeshifter or Mighty Mouse. do you use any of those?


If you can, send the stack and I will test it here as well.

Tom

On Apr 10, 2006, at 4:30 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:


Hey List Folks:

Looking for troubleshooting suggestions...  I have a simple stack  
with one


I'm not sure if I'm overlooking a simple property setting somewhere  
or I've

run into a 2.7 bug that I can't shake.

This is Rev 2.7 on OSX 10.3.9.

Scott Rossi


Thomas J McGrath III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Lazy River Software™ - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com

Lazy River Metal Art™ - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/metal.html

Meeting Wear™ - http://www.cafepress.com/meetingwear

Semantic Compaction Systems - http://www.minspeak.com

SCIconics, LLC - http://www.sciconics.com/sciindex.html







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Re: Field Trouble

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, J. Landman Gay wrote:

>> I have a simple stack with one
>> editable field within a group placed on multiple cards.  I think I did
>> something yesterday that now prevents me from drag-selecting the text on any
>> card.

> Check that "autohilite" is also true.

YES!  It seems that was it.  Thank you so much. :-)

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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Re: reporting fatal error bugs

[Dave Beck]

Thanks Jacqueline,

But the question remains which log is helpful to post and where to find it.
There is no easy way to extract the log from the Microsoft Dr. Watson dialog
that I am aware of. In a previous post somebody suggested that the log of
interest was located at:

C:/Documents and Settings/All Users/Application Data/Microsoft/Dr
Watson/user.dmb

However, that to me appears to be gibberish binary data. There is another
file in that folder on my machine called "dtwtsn32.log". Is that the one?

Thanks,

Dave

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Re: Rev media page not working properly

[Alex Tweedly]

Bob Hartley wrote:


Hi All.

I'm just curious about revmedia. When I hover over the graphic on the
revmedia page my cursor changes to indicate a hyperlink, however, there is
no mousedown action.

Is this only usable with IE. I use mozilla. 
 

No, revmedia.runrev.com doesn't work properly with IE either. In IE the 
cursor doesn't change - but it doesn't do anything.


It looks as though it's an attempt to use a map, but the map itself 
hasn't been included in the html.


I've cc'd [EMAIL PROTECTED], which is the address they give for "comments 
or enquiries" about the web site.


--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 - Release Date: 09/04/2006

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Re: Rev media page not working properly

[Dave Cragg]

On 10 Apr 2006, at 21:52, Bob Hartley wrote:



Hi All.

I'm just curious about revmedia. When I hover over the graphic on the
revmedia page my cursor changes to indicate a hyperlink, however,  
there is

no mousedown action.

Is this only usable with IE. I use mozilla.


I don't think you're missing anything. The image has a "usemap"  
attribute, but the map doesn't seem to be in place yet. IE on XP and  
Safari on OS X don't change the cursor. Firefox behaves like Mozilla.


Cheers
Dave
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Re: Had Revolution for over a year and I still can't run a stack file

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, J. Landman Gay wrote:

>> I know the answer to that one, I think. It happens when you use the
>> message box to show a file dialog (or when you have been typing into a
>> field) and hit the return key to execute the command. When typing, the
>> mouse pointer normally is hidden (replaced by the insertion point). If
>> you open a file dialog while the insertion point is present, the mouse
>> pointer doesn't reappear when the file dialog opens.
>> 
>> I bugzillaed it some time ago.
> 
> And just to follow up, it appears to have been fixed in 2.7. Bugzilla
> pays off. ;)

Well, it still happens here intermittently here (looking for a recipe).
Just tried it in Rev 2.7, OSX 10.3.9.  In a new Rev session, the first time
I executed the following in the message box:

  answer file "Locate:"

The cursor disappeared.  I went off to start writing email, came back to
double check, and now the cursor remains visible during the above.

May be sunspots or something else, but I'll see if I can get some kind of
recipe.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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Re: Rev media page not working properly

[Mark Schonewille]

I suggest you write to support. They will notify the webmaster.

Mark


Bob Hartley wrote:

Hi All.

I'm just curious about revmedia. When I hover over the graphic on the
revmedia page my cursor changes to indicate a hyperlink, however, there is
no mousedown action.

Is this only usable with IE. I use mozilla. 


regards
Bob 


--

Consultant and Software Engineer
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.economy-x-talk.com

eHUG coordinator
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.ehug.info

Advertise with us and reach 1000 truely interested internet 
users every month. See http://economy-x-talk.com/advertise.html 
for more information.


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Re: answer the result

[Dave Cragg]

On 10 Apr 2006, at 19:18, Mark Wieder wrote:


Dave-

Monday, April 10, 2006, 6:53:49 AM, you wrote:


Has something changed at some point with the way "answer the result"
works?


Whew! I thought it was just me...



The other Mark W had already filed a bug report for this (3494), and  
it is fixed for the next release (2.7.1).


I thought I'd searched Bugzilla for this. I've gotta learn how to use  
it one of these days. Writing programs is one thing, but using them  
is a whole different ballgame. :-)


Cheers
Dave
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Rev media page not working properly

[Bob Hartley]

Hi All.

I'm just curious about revmedia. When I hover over the graphic on the
revmedia page my cursor changes to indicate a hyperlink, however, there is
no mousedown action.

Is this only usable with IE. I use mozilla. 

regards
Bob 
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Re: Field Trouble

[J. Landman Gay]

Scott Rossi wrote:

Hey List Folks:

Looking for troubleshooting suggestions...  I have a simple stack with one
editable field within a group placed on multiple cards.  I think I did
something yesterday that now prevents me from drag-selecting the text on any
card.

- the cantmodify of the stack is false
- the field is unlocked
- the showFopcusBorder of the field is false
- the traversalOn of both the group and field are true
- I can tab into the field, and can sometimes do a command+A to select all,
but more often the Edit menu just flashes with an error beep and no text is
selected


Check that "autohilite" is also true.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Clarification on Menubar under MacOS X?

[J. Landman Gay]

David Burgun wrote:

Hi,

I have created a Menubar containg just a "File" menu and given it the  
following items:


Test 1

Test 2

Test 3
Test 4
Test 5

Quit

If set this menubar as in:

set the menubar of this stack to myMenubar

The menu appears ok except that when it displays, the last item in  the 
menu is "Test 3". I was fully expecting the  before the quit  and 
the quit item itself to be removed but not 4 items to move. If I  insert 
2 dummy items after Test 5, then it behaves correctly.


Any ideas? Why should it remove 4 items, instead of 2 as the  
documentation states??


I suspect it is because a "help" menu is also required. The engine is 
probably removing the last 2 lines from the File menu and doing the 
appropriate thing, and then looking at the last menu button so it can 
manage the Help menu the same way. Because the File menu and the last 
button (which is supposed to be "Help") are actually the same button, it 
is also removing another 2 lines from the bottom of the File menu.


Most operating systems require a Help menu, and Rev expects it.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: 2.7 standalone with 2.6.x stacks.

[J. Landman Gay]

Peter T. Evensen wrote:
I have a simple question: if I update my "splash screen" runtime app to 
2.7.x (i.e., with MacTel support when it is released), do I need to 
resave all my 2.6.x stacks as 2.7 in order to use them, or will the 
runtime simply convert them and use them as is?


I assume it will convert them when they are opened, but are there any 
major problems in leaving them in the 2.6.x format?


It should open and run them just fine. Of course, if your standalone 
saves them at any time they will become 2.7 format stacks. That 
shouldn't really matter though.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Field Trouble

[Scott Rossi]

Hey List Folks:

Looking for troubleshooting suggestions...  I have a simple stack with one
editable field within a group placed on multiple cards.  I think I did
something yesterday that now prevents me from drag-selecting the text on any
card.

- the cantmodify of the stack is false
- the field is unlocked
- the showFopcusBorder of the field is false
- the traversalOn of both the group and field are true
- I can tab into the field, and can sometimes do a command+A to select all,
but more often the Edit menu just flashes with an error beep and no text is
selected

If it matters, the textsize is large -- 96 pts.

I'm not sure if I'm overlooking a simple property setting somewhere or I've
run into a 2.7 bug that I can't shake.

This is Rev 2.7 on OSX 10.3.9.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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Media on MacWorld

[Mark Swindell]

Here's a link to the promo blurb for Media on MacWorld's site.  One  
comment so far...


http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/04/10/revolution/index.php
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2.7 standalone with 2.6.x stacks.

[Peter T. Evensen]

I have a simple question: if I update my "splash screen" runtime app to 
2.7.x (i.e., with MacTel support when it is released), do I need to resave 
all my 2.6.x stacks as 2.7 in order to use them, or will the runtime simply 
convert them and use them as is?


I assume it will convert them when they are opened, but are there any major 
problems in leaving them in the 2.6.x format?


Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
314-629-5248 or 888-628-4588 


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Re: List Moderation, recent threads and New Forum

[Richard Gaskin]

Bob Warren wrote:

For example, I recently completed a pair of file/picture chooser widgets 
for Linux, which I offered to the Rev community. However, from the 
beginning of my programming effort I discovered that certain fundamental 
functions described in the Help had apparently not been implemented. For 
example, the function specialFolderPath. I did not manage to get any 
information whatsoever out of this function, different to my experience 
in Windows and different (I imagine) to what it would be in Mac. As a 
result I had to (temporarily?) direct my widgets for use in Ubuntu Linux 
rather than Linux generally - very serious.


Just to clarify, does specialFolderPath return the proper value under 
Ubuntu?  Which constants work with it?


The docs don't mention Linux at all, while they do list the constants 
available for Classic, OS X, and Windows.  So from the docs it's not 
clear whether specialFolderPath is expected to work at all right now 
under Linux.


If it works in one flavor of Linux but not others, while momentarily 
annoying it bodes well for the future, as it implies the effort was made 
for it to work on Linux but it simply has some bugs in the current release.


This is especially interesting to me, as I'm planning on my first Linux 
release later this year.  I'll be watching Linux-related threads closely


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Clarification on Menubar under MacOS X?

[David Burgun]

Hi,

I have created a Menubar containg just a "File" menu and given it the  
following items:


Test 1

Test 2

Test 3
Test 4
Test 5

Quit

If set this menubar as in:

set the menubar of this stack to myMenubar

The menu appears ok except that when it displays, the last item in  
the menu is "Test 3". I was fully expecting the  before the quit  
and the quit item itself to be removed but not 4 items to move. If I  
insert 2 dummy items after Test 5, then it behaves correctly.


Any ideas? Why should it remove 4 items, instead of 2 as the  
documentation states??


Thanks a lot
All the Best
Dave

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Re: bugs

[David Burgun]

On 10 Apr 2006, at 17:54, Robert Sneidar wrote:

It is theoretically possible to write bug free code, but the  
chances of doing it decrease exponentially with complexity. (For  
anything like software someone would actually want to use, the  
chances are about the same as the coin dropping to the ground and  
staying on it's side.)


That's just not true! Bugs do not necessarily increase as complexity  
increases it all a matter of coding correctly. It's true you cannot  
apply the same rules you use to develop complex software as you do to  
write trivial software, but if you stick to sound software  
engineering principals, then complex software is actually more stable.


Point in case, look at games like WarCraft I and II, StarCraft,  
Diablo II, SimCity, etc. etc. etc. these are increibly complex  
systems and they have very few bugs. Reason? Most of these games work  
on devices like the PlayStation and rely on the CD being correct,  
there's no downloading a bug-fix release in this case.


Another point in case, are mainframe OSes (like IBM/390), also as I  
have mentioned before check out SNOBOL4 and SPITBOL.


All the Best
Dave



.




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Re: List Moderation, recent threads and New Forum

[Mark Wieder]

Lynn-

Monday, April 10, 2006, 6:06:34 AM, you wrote:

> I realize that I let my frustration get the better of me, yesterday, and for
> that I apologize. It is very difficult for me to sit still when I see a
> problem popping up again and again.

There. Isn't it great to be able to vent to the list?

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: From negative to positive

[Mark Wieder]

Liam-

Monday, April 10, 2006, 10:53:48 AM, you wrote:

> I just want to tell you something positive about using Rev. We were
> using some software that was costing the company a lot of money and
> did not fulfill our needs. So I wrote some new software using Rev.  
> This Works Great and all the people that use it are very happy as I
> asked them what they needed. I was able to write this quite fast. My
> Boss was so happy that he gave me a new MacBookPro. I could not have
> solved this problem with out Rev for its ease and speed.

You ASKED your users what they wanted? And then GAVE it to them? Gave
it to the FAST?

Watch your step, buddy. That sort of stuff can get you kicked out of
the High Circles of Software Development. Here's how we do things at
BigCompaniesRUs:

Write whatever slop you want
Convince the users it's what they want
Now that they really want it:
Charge them more than they want to pay
Take your time so they know how much work you're putting in
Charge them for updates to change it to what they need



Seriously, that's a great story. Congratulations. You might want to
think about expanding it for one of runrev's case studies.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: answer the result

[Mark Wieder]

Dave-

Monday, April 10, 2006, 6:53:49 AM, you wrote:

> Has something changed at some point with the way "answer the result"
> works?

Whew! I thought it was just me...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: End all Negative Threads Now

[Timothy Miller]

Good (Sunday) morning,

The amount of biting argument on the list has reached unacceptable levels,
after the warning yesterday. I am going to direct support to begin deleting
list subscriptions if I come back from Sunday breakfast and there's still a
stream of them coming in.

Best regards,


Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution, Ltd



I sympathize. OTOH, if subscribers would resist the impulse to feed 
the trolls, this wouldn't be necessary.



Tim
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Re: From negative to positive (was End all Negative Threads Now)

[Ken Ray]

On 4/10/06 12:53 PM, "Liam Lambert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I just want to tell you something positive about using Rev. We were
> using some software that was costing the company a lot of money and
> did not fulfill our needs. So I wrote some new software using Rev.
> This Works Great and all the people that use it are very happy as I
> asked them what they needed. I was able to write this quite fast. My
> Boss was so happy that he gave me a new MacBookPro. I could not have
> solved this problem with out Rev for its ease and speed.

Congratulatons on your success, Liam!


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: List Moderation, recent threads and New Forum

[J. Landman Gay]

Bob Warren wrote:

The first part of my question concerns the use of Buzilla. I refuse to 
use it in its present form essentially because of the voting system.


I think you have misunderstood the voting system. RR uses that to get a 
sense of how many users are affected by a particular problem, but it in 
no way determines which bugs get fixed first. The determination is made 
based on a number of different factors, of which user votes is only one 
consideration.



I 
have a bug in Linux, which at the moment is nothing but an emerging OS, 
not of immediate interest to the vast majority of people on this list 
(my potential voters). How am I supposed to draw attention to a serious 
bug in Rev Linux and get something done about it in a timely fashion?


The best way is to enter it into Bugzilla via the channels set up for 
that. The engineers do not read this list looking for bug reports. If 
you do not report it, they won't know about it. It is that simple.


You can also submit it to the support queue, as I mentioned in another 
post, and we will move it to Bugzilla for you. It is faster though if 
you simply enter it into Bugzilla yourself, using either the web 
interface or Revzilla.



Frantically, I wrote an e-mail directly to the Chief Technical Officer 
(Mark Waddingham), which was met by stony silence rather than some kind 
of reply


Which was entirely appropriate. He is far too busy to respond to 
individual customers, it isn't part of his job, there are other avenues 
for these reports, and you tried to bypass them. If you had submitted 
the problem via the channels that have been created for that purpose, 
you would have received an immediate response. There are several people 
whose job is to do that.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: reporting fatal error bugs

[J. Landman Gay]

Dave Beck wrote:

Might
somebody from the Rev team reading this post be able to chime in about what
is needed in order to have this issue addressed properly? 


Go here:



Paste the content of one or more logs into the Comments field, or else 
use the "create a new attachment" link to attach the logs. Click Commit. 
If you get more logs, repeat. If the team needs to see your stack(s) 
they can contact you. This is the best way to help the team track the 
problem.


Alternately, you can enclose your logs in an email, along with a 
description of the problem and a recipe to repeat it, which you can send 
to support at <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. This method may take a little longer 
to process because it needs to wait in a queue until we move it to 
Bugzilla manually, but it is an acceptable way to report a problem and 
the lag isn't excessive.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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From negative to positive (was End all Negative Threads Now)

[Liam Lambert]

I just want to tell you something positive about using Rev. We were  
using some software that was costing the company a lot of money and  
did not fulfill our needs. So I wrote some new software using Rev.  
This Works Great and all the people that use it are very happy as I  
asked them what they needed. I was able to write this quite fast. My  
Boss was so happy that he gave me a new MacBookPro. I could not have  
solved this problem with out Rev for its ease and speed.


Now That's Positive

Liam
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Re: View smaller.

[Ryno]

Thanks for the great script, Malte,

It does a very nice zoom of the window, but I am looking for something more ambitious. I 
am, to misquote Dan, "an enthusiastic amateur" (an artist), and I need direct 
guidance, so do not worry about making things too simple.

Try this. New stack. Add button "Smaller" (using your script) and a second button 
"Bigger". Import an image. Use the "select rectangle" tool to select and move a section 
of the image. This all works perfectly, but...

The altered image is now a half size image. Enlarging it by adapting your 
script produces marked pixelation (a very nice effect in itself! but not what I 
am looking for).

What I need is for editing in the half-size image somehow to be executed onto 
the original full-sized image, just like an image editor. Can this be done? 
Maybe by storing the original image in a substack while the visible editing is 
done on the small image, and then having the editing mirrored onto the 
original? Excuse the baby steps! Please feel free to contact me off-list if it 
is more convenient.

Ryno.
http://artistvision.org

this is not completely thought through, but it helps to get you 
started. Ideally you store original dimensions in a custom property and 
use that. Also there might be cases where this fails (groups with 
lockLoc set to true) that need special treatment...
If you use many controls it might be slow. A list with all resizeable 
components and a repeat for each loop might be better then.


All that saied here is a script. For 25 % view use /4 instead of /2. 
Note that this only makes it smaller, not bigger yet. If you need more, 
please let me know.

on mouseUp
-- 50 % view
   lock screen
   repeat with i=1 to the number of controls
 put the top of control i into tTop
 put the left of control i into tLeft
 set the width of control i to the width of control i/2
 set the height of control i to the height of control i/2
 set the top of control i to tTop/2
 set the left of control i to tLeft/2
   end repeat
   put the topleft of this stack into tTopLeft
   set the width of this stack to the width of this stack/2
   set the height of this stack to the height of this stack /2
   set the topleft of this stack to tTopLeft
   unlock screen
end mouseUp


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Re: Windows Player Won't Play What Plays On Mac

[Iden Rosenthal]

Changing the traversalon of the button now enabled the first sentence  
of the text to be hilighted and it does read the words now but the  
second and third sentences won't highlight as they do on the Mac. Any  
ideas?



On Apr 9, 2006, at 5:41 PM, Iden Rosenthal wrote:

I have a one field one card stack with three sentences of text. I  
want to highlight each sentence (well ideally each word as it is  
read but that I am leaving for right now) as it is read. What I  
have written works fine on the Mac using the Player for Mac. It  
doesn't play on the Windows player. In an earlier incarnation of  
this stack I was just selecting the text to be read. That version  
read the text aloud in Windows but it didn't select any of the text  
except the last sentence. Now when I am trying to set the  
foregroundColor of the text to be read the Windows player not only  
doesn't set the color, it doesn't even read the text.


Is there a good reference for how to write for the Windows player,  
i.e. what works and what doesn't?


on mouseUp
  put fld "maintext" into theText
  set the itemDelimiter to "."
  repeat with k = 1 to the number of items in theText
put item k of theText into theSentence
set the foregroundColor of item k of fld "maintext" to blue
try
  revspeak theSentence
catch theError
  beep
end try
wait until revIsSpeaking() is false
set foregroundColor of item k of fld "maintext" to black
  end repeat

  set the itemDelimiter to ","
end mouseUp
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Re: bugs

[Robert Sneidar]

It seems to me you guys are playing shell games with words. It's all  
a matter of semantics. "Bug" to one of you is not the same meaning as  
"bug" to another. So let me define "bug" for both of you. A bug is  
code that does not function the way the author of the code intended.  
If the author intended to fry your toaster when you clicked the "OK"  
button, and your toaster did in fact fry, it's NOT A BUG! If he did  
not intend it, it is. All talk of usability and expectations for end  
users is frivolous.


It is theoretically possible to write bug free code, but the chances  
of doing it decrease exponentially with complexity. (For anything  
like software someone would actually want to use, the chances are  
about the same as the coin dropping to the ground and staying on it's  
side.)


My experience is that if I try to be very very careful as I am  
writing the code not to make syntax errors, I don't get much coding  
done. My focus has to be mainly on concept. So what is the point to  
saying that I can write bug free code in theory? In practice I have  
proven that I cannot. And how would I ever be sure? Unless someone  
does the unexpected thing that triggers the bug, no one would ever  
know, including me. If a bug is never triggered, is it still a bug?  
If a tree falls in the woods... but I digress.


Such talk is silly. We live in an imperfect world with imperfect  
people. We produce imperfect things. We try to fix them when we find  
them. The only perfect man who ever showed up, we crucified. But not  
to worry, He's alright now. :-)


Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM

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List Moderation, recent threads and New Forum

[Bob Warren]

Heather Nagey wrote:

If you want to talk about things that do not relate to coding in
Revolution, if you are going to self detonate if you don't get it out,
if those fingers just won't stay off the keyboard, we have a great,
shiny, beautiful new solution, just for you. Use the forum!

http://forums.runrev.com

Select the appropriate, off topic subforum, and post it there.
.
.
.
Please don't respond to this post on the list. Respond to me,
[EMAIL PROTECTED], if you have something you need to say.

-
Heather:

I may well be breaking the new rules by asking this question publicly, 
rather than privately, I don't know. On the other hand, it's a technical 
question. I could have changed the title of the thread to "get around" 
the problem, but I think that might be childish.


The first part of my question concerns the use of Buzilla. I refuse to 
use it in its present form essentially because of the voting system. I 
have a bug in Linux, which at the moment is nothing but an emerging OS, 
not of immediate interest to the vast majority of people on this list 
(my potential voters). How am I supposed to draw attention to a serious 
bug in Rev Linux and get something done about it in a timely fashion?


For example, I recently completed a pair of file/picture chooser widgets 
for Linux, which I offered to the Rev community. However, from the 
beginning of my programming effort I discovered that certain fundamental 
functions described in the Help had apparently not been implemented. For 
example, the function specialFolderPath. I did not manage to get any 
information whatsoever out of this function, different to my experience 
in Windows and different (I imagine) to what it would be in Mac. As a 
result I had to (temporarily?) direct my widgets for use in Ubuntu Linux 
rather than Linux generally - very serious. At the end of my programming 
effort (i.e. after all the work had been done) I suddenly discovered 
another aspect of Rev for Linux that was totally unexpected. When 
standalones (the form of my widgets) are closed, they clear the 
clipboard! This is totally non-standard, at least in comparison to Rev 
for Windows, and certainly in comparison to all common-sense norms.


Frantically, I wrote an e-mail directly to the Chief Technical Officer 
(Mark Waddingham), which was met by stony silence rather than some kind 
of reply such as "Please send your problem by the correct path" (i.e. 
technical support, Heather, or whoever) or "Please Bugzilla it, and 
we'll look into it as soon as we can" or "Thanks for your message, I've 
passed it on to ..." or "You are only a Studio User so you are not 
entitled to immediate support" or even "*&%%#@@ you!"


Note that just about all the "trouble" on the List recently has had IDE 
bugs at its origin. Rather than paying attention to the fixing of the 
bugs, Rev appears now to be dividing and conquering us on the ground 
that our discussion of them sometimes expresses too much frustration.


Are my concerns "ON topic" or "OFF topic"? Is such a distinction really 
viable?


Best regards,
Bob Warren


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Re: Recent Posts

[Robert Sneidar]

Hey that is a GREAT idea for a new Revolution feature! Have a way we  
can draw a graphical diagonal line along the side of a stack of  
cards, and then we can resort in their original order! BRILLIANT ;-)


uh... btw... if the diagonal line was your only method for  
determining the proper order, how do you know you got it right...  
never mind.


Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM




For anybody out there still using punched cards  Draw a
diagonal line
across the top of your card deck with a biro, drop the deck on the
floor, and
then put the deck back into 100% sequence with NO hassle !  Did it
often !


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Re: Recent posts

[David Burgun]

There ya go then! Take one of the oldest of problems and you find  
that one of the  oldest of solutions still works!


All the Best
Dave

On 10 Apr 2006, at 17:12, Jim Ault wrote:

I have created a field "originalSequence", ran a loop to 'draw the  
diagonal
lines', then sort by that field whenever nec.  An inventory stack  
was one

past project where I actually had 4 sort orders + mod dates.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 4/10/06 5:37 AM, "David Burgun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Neat idea.  Not that I have a use for it now,


I dunno! Would it help to diagonal draw a line across cards in a
RunRev stack? If they ever got out of order you could then maybe use
the same trick to put em back again!?!?



All the Best
Dave


On 10 Apr 2006, at 02:50, Marian Petrides wrote:


 but it would have helped 25 years ago.  Too bad I wasn't smart
enough to think of it then.

On Apr 9, 2006, at 8:47 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:


Francis-

Sunday, April 9, 2006, 5:15:03 PM, you wrote:


For anybody out there still using punched cards  Draw a
diagonal line
across the top of your card deck with a biro, drop the deck on the
floor, and
then put the deck back into 100% sequence with NO hassle !  Did it
often !


Yes, and that's the sort of thing that experience will teach you  
very

quickly the first time you drop a stack. Note that it's possible to
get the stack put back together exactly backwards that way, too...

I find it semantically interesting that in 2006 we're still working
with cards and stacks (but in an entirely different context) in
runrev.

--
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Recent posts

[Jim Ault]

I have created a field "originalSequence", ran a loop to 'draw the diagonal
lines', then sort by that field whenever nec.  An inventory stack was one
past project where I actually had 4 sort orders + mod dates.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 4/10/06 5:37 AM, "David Burgun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> Neat idea.  Not that I have a use for it now,
> 
> I dunno! Would it help to diagonal draw a line across cards in a
> RunRev stack? If they ever got out of order you could then maybe use
> the same trick to put em back again!?!?
> 
> 
> 
> All the Best
> Dave
> 
> 
> On 10 Apr 2006, at 02:50, Marian Petrides wrote:
> 
>>  but it would have helped 25 years ago.  Too bad I wasn't smart
>> enough to think of it then.
>> 
>> On Apr 9, 2006, at 8:47 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:
>> 
>>> Francis-
>>> 
>>> Sunday, April 9, 2006, 5:15:03 PM, you wrote:
>>> 
 For anybody out there still using punched cards  Draw a
 diagonal line
 across the top of your card deck with a biro, drop the deck on the
 floor, and
 then put the deck back into 100% sequence with NO hassle !  Did it
 often !
>>> 
>>> Yes, and that's the sort of thing that experience will teach you very
>>> quickly the first time you drop a stack. Note that it's possible to
>>> get the stack put back together exactly backwards that way, too...
>>> 
>>> I find it semantically interesting that in 2006 we're still working
>>> with cards and stacks (but in an entirely different context) in
>>> runrev.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> -Mark Wieder
>>>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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RE: reporting fatal error bugs

[Dave Beck]

Thanks Martin. I am very eager to have this problem addressed. We have about
250 installed users and we are getting almost daily reports now of the stack
*consistently* crashing on Windows XP (both Home and Pro) systems.

I looked at the user.dmp file and it seemed to be a bunch of binary data.
Then I looked at the "drwtsn32.log" file in the same "Dr Watson" folder and
it seemed to be more in line with what would be helpful to track this down.

The stack contains proprietary technology so I can't post it directly to the
bugzilla site, although we could post the standalone if it would help. Might
somebody from the Rev team reading this post be able to chime in about what
is needed in order to have this issue addressed properly? 

Thanks,

Dave

> I'm not an authority in this, but have been poking around in my XP 
> system to see if I can figure this out and it appears that DR Watson is 
> configured to write a mini crash dump file. I didn't configure it to do 
> that, so that is presumably a default.
>
> I had a crash in Thunderbird this morning and indeed found the relevant 
> crash dump in:
>
> C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Microsoft\Dr 
> Watson\user.dmp
>
> I found out where it was by double-clicking the drwtson32.exe which on 
> my system is in C:\WINDOWS\system32\
>
> Don't know if this helps, but I pass it on FWIW.
> 
> Martin Baxter

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Re: answer the result

[Dave Cragg]

On 10 Apr 2006, at 15:43, Trevor DeVore wrote:


I've noticed this behavior in recent versions as well (OS X/ 
Windows).  I've resorted to using


get the result
answer it

Though that isn't how things used to work.


Thanks for the confirmation. I've submitted it as a bug (3513). I  
suspect it will hit a lot of older stacks that get updated to a newer  
engine. That's how I found it.


Not sure what to do about the libUrl documentation now. :-(

Cheers
Dave
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Re: enterprise early update vs. update

[Peter T. Evensen]

I think the early update is if you buy it before yours expires.  The update 
is if you buy it after your expiration date.


At 07:05 AM 4/10/2006, you wrote:


Hi Heather,

Happy to hear you're still alive !!! (joke)

I have a simple question :

What's the difference between

 - enterprise EARLY update
and
 - enterprise update ???

Thanks.


Greetings.

Yves COPPE
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
314-629-5248 or 888-628-4588 


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Re: answer the result

[Trevor DeVore]

On Apr 10, 2006, at 6:53 AM, Dave Cragg wrote:


Could someone confirm that they see the same thing (i.e. a blank  
message) in case it's just at my end. This was with Rev 2.6 and 2.7  
(XP and OS X).


This used to work ( I just checked with Rev 2.1.2).

I know we shouldn't rely on the result staying around for long, and  
I generally store the result in a variable immediately. But I  
thought "if the result is not empty then answer the result" was a  
fairly common method. (LibUrl documentation uses it all over the  
place.)


Dave,

I've noticed this behavior in recent versions as well (OS X/ 
Windows).  I've resorted to using


get the result
answer it

Though that isn't how things used to work.


--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Learning Systems - http://www.bluemangolearning.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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answer the result

[Dave Cragg]

Hi

Has something changed at some point with the way "answer the result"  
works?


I was reviewing some old scripts, which basically look like this:

  on mouseUp
  get url "http://www.lacscentre.co.uk/nofile.txt";
  if the result is not empty then
answer the result
  else
put it into field 1
 end if
  end mouseUp

The url is for a non-existent file, so I expect "404 file not found",  
but I see a blank answer dialog box (no message). If I do this...


  on mouseUp
  get url "http://www.lacscentre.co.uk.nofile.txt";
  if the result is not empty then
put the result
  else
put it into field 1
 end if
  end mouseUp

...I see the the error in the message box as expected.

Could someone confirm that they see the same thing (i.e. a blank  
message) in case it's just at my end. This was with Rev 2.6 and 2.7  
(XP and OS X).


This used to work ( I just checked with Rev 2.1.2).

I know we shouldn't rely on the result staying around for long, and I  
generally store the result in a variable immediately. But I thought  
"if the result is not empty then answer the result" was a fairly  
common method. (LibUrl documentation uses it all over the place.)


Cheers
Dave


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From negative to positive (was End all Negative Threads Now)

[Marielle Lange]

jeffrey reynolds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
its just not very professional and i think may strike some the  
wrong way (example: hey kids) and just feed or start the fires you  
are trying to avoid/stop. you as a moderator and rev representative  
need to be very calm, clear and level headed in your comments.  
while the list is generally fun and folks jibe a lot (and that is  
great) the sad fact is a moderator and company rep just cant do  
that IMHO.


Thanks for this, Jeffrey (and others), this gave me a good laugh. I  
savoured the irony that I am the one to benefit from what I just  
denounced.  At the same time Lynn got attacked for doing what I had  
asked runrev to do, step in and be the target for the tomatoes that  
were flying around. You will notice there was an important change in  
scenario. The threat of banning was used to get us think twice before  
posting... nobody got outcasted.


Thanks for your intervention, Lynn. I hope the tomatoes didn't ruin  
your suit.


Jim Ault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I would imagine they are quite cathartic.  After all, where else  
can you

vent your spleen about Revolution?


Thanks Jim... Yeah, I needed to get a few things out. I started  
boiling myself. I needed either the heat to be reduced a bit or to  
open up the lid. I don't take the best decisions when I am in that  
position. Sorry about that. I by far prefer to come back to  
"diverting" strategies that encourage positive ways to react rather  
than the denouncing ones I have adopted lately. I am fully aware that  
"dignitaries" (only used to avoid names) have the same difficulties  
handling the situation as me.


Hopefully, this will calm down soon. Have you tried revmedia? No  
evident glitches. Some very nice work in icon design and UI layout (I  
like the little sparkle on the red band around the R!). We even have  
forums now.


On the distribution of user participation I gave... well, er, hum  
Nothing so abnormal about it. That's standard Zipf distribution:

http://www.useit.com/alertbox/zipf.html

A simple description of data that follow a Zipf distribution is  
that they have

a few elements that score very high (the left tail in the diagrams)
a medium number of elements with middle-of-the-road scores (the  
middle part of the diagram)
a huge number of elements that score very low (the right tail in  
the diagram)


Glad it gave you a chance to see you made it in the top ten Chipp ;-D.

I will gladly pay a pint to Richard if we happen to meet. Do you  
happen to have any favourite Belgian beer, Richard? Chances are that  
if things continue that way, we will just get a good laugh on how we  
once made fools of ourselves (at least on my part).


Marielle

 


Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: [EMAIL PROTECTED],

Homepage
http://homepages.widged.com/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databaseshttp:// 
lexicall.widged.com/
Supporting Education Technologists  http:// 
revolution.widged.com/wiki/



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Re: [ANN] A place to discuss xTalk issues freely

[Wolfgang Bereuter]

On 10.04.2006, at 12:00, Curry wrote:

Anyway, it's there if you need it, and I offer it in the hope that  
it helps people as well as the general cause of xTalk.


great, thanks

regards
wolfgang bereuter

--
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See 


T-mapping© is PhotoLearning Mindmaps!
...
http://www.internettrainer.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
...
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
Tel: ++43/1/ 479 6410
Fax: ++43/1/ 955 14 64-198


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Re: List Moderation, recent threads and New Forum

[David Burgun]

Hi Lynn,

On 10 Apr 2006, at 14:06, Lynn Fredricks wrote:


Hi all,


So guys and gals, here it is: Wa too much noise to
signal ratio. It's taken me hours just to get up to speed on
the discussion for the last two days, and how much more do I
know about using Revolution? Almost nothing!


I realize that I let my frustration get the better of me,  
yesterday, and for

that I apologize.


That happens to us all from time to time and there really is no need  
to apologize (to me anyway).



It is very difficult for me to sit still when I see a
problem popping up again and again.


That's exactly how some of the people using RunRev feel. When the  
problem(s) pop's up once too often it tends to pop up here. As far as  
I can see, there are two ways of dealing with it:


1.  Stop the problems popping up in RunRev, which will lead to the  
reduction of problems popping up here.


2.  Stop the problems from popping up here by other means.

All the Best
Dave

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RE: List Moderation, recent threads and New Forum

[Lynn Fredricks]

Hi all,

> So guys and gals, here it is: Wa too much noise to 
> signal ratio. It's taken me hours just to get up to speed on 
> the discussion for the last two days, and how much more do I 
> know about using Revolution? Almost nothing!

I realize that I let my frustration get the better of me, yesterday, and for
that I apologize. It is very difficult for me to sit still when I see a
problem popping up again and again.

Best regards,


Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution, Ltd


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Re: Recent posts

[David Burgun]

Neat idea.  Not that I have a use for it now,


I dunno! Would it help to diagonal draw a line across cards in a  
RunRev stack? If they ever got out of order you could then maybe use  
the same trick to put em back again!?!?




All the Best
Dave


On 10 Apr 2006, at 02:50, Marian Petrides wrote:

 but it would have helped 25 years ago.  Too bad I wasn't smart  
enough to think of it then.


On Apr 9, 2006, at 8:47 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:


Francis-

Sunday, April 9, 2006, 5:15:03 PM, you wrote:


For anybody out there still using punched cards  Draw a
diagonal line
across the top of your card deck with a biro, drop the deck on the
floor, and
then put the deck back into 100% sequence with NO hassle !  Did it
often !


Yes, and that's the sort of thing that experience will teach you very
quickly the first time you drop a stack. Note that it's possible to
get the stack put back together exactly backwards that way, too...

I find it semantically interesting that in 2006 we're still working
with cards and stacks (but in an entirely different context) in
runrev.

--
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Bugs

[David Burgun]

On 10 Apr 2006, at 02:13, Francis Nugent Dixon wrote:


Hi from Paris,

Many - many years ago, I came across a simple program
written to print out paychecks (in 1401 AutoCoder, for anybody
who wants to know). The input to the program was  you've
guessed it  ...  punched cards, containing basic information,
such as :

1 - a code (1 for man, 2 for woman),
2 - Employee code number (six digits),
3 - Employee name (25 characters)
4 - Number of hours worked in the week (3 digits)

The program needed the sex code, because the hourly
rate for a woman was less than that of a man (nothing has
changed, even 40 years later !).

Tests were conclusive, the programmer eliminated invalid
employee codes, and hours worked in excess of 45, etc, etc.
So the programmer did a run on REAL data for the current month.

The program blew 30 seconds later .. but only because the
employee was . neither a man or a woman ..

From then on, programmers were instructed to FIRST test their
programs with blank cards ...



Actually this is a good example for another reason. If you equate the  
"blank" card to the "empty" concept in TranScript, you will see that  
TranScript actually makes things a little worse in some cases here.  
By this I mean, you can get away with passing empty to RevRev  
functions etc. and it will accept them, even when they don't make  
sense. For instance:


if there is a folder myFolder then
new folder myFolder
end if

the part that handles "there is a folder" allows an empty string to  
be passed to it and fails. On the face of it this is good, it didn't  
identify "empty" as being a valid folder. The problem here is that  
you'd get the same result if "myFolder" contained a valid folder.   
The programmer in this example should have coded:


put empty into myFolder

if myFolder <> empty then
  if there is a folder myFolder then
  new folder myFolder
   end if
 end if

If the "there is a folder" clause generated an Execution Error if it  
were passed empty data, it would help a lot.


There are also a number of cases where "empty" is passed around which  
while they don't cause any problems immediately they cause more  
processing than is necessary to be performed. For instance:


put the keys of myArray into myKeysList
sort lines of myKeysList
repeat with myKeyIndex = 1 to the number of lines in myKeysList
end repeat

Here the extra "sort" operation was performed on an "empty" string,  
is just continued on and hit the repeat statement which then  
immediately failed. Here we are not talking about much overhead, but  
when I traced some code I wrote recently, I found that it was  
traveling down 4 layers of function calls, uselessly passing "empty".  
It was only when I added some code to the bottom layer that was  
"empty" intolerant did I notice the problem. For instance:


Stack;
function StackFunc theParam
local myParam

-- do something that is "empty" tolerant with theParam
put SomeCalc(theParam) into myParam
put CardFunc(myParam ) into myResult

return myResult
end StackFunc


Card:
function CardFunc theParam
local myParam

-- do something that is "empty" tolerant with theParam
put SomeCalc(theParam) into myParam
put GroupFunc(myParam ) into myResult

return myResult
end CardFunc


Group:
function GroupFunc theParam
local myParam

-- do something that is "empty" tolerant with theParam
put SomeCalc(theParam) into myParam
put ControlFunc(myParam ) into myResult

return myResult
end GroupFunc


Control:
function ControlFunc theParam
local myParam

-- do something that is "empty" tolerant with theParam
put SomeCalc(theParam) into myResult

return myResult
end ControlFunc

In this case "empty" was being passed needlessly, but harmlessly down  
4 layers. All is ok, until you add some empty non-tolerant code to  
one of the lower levels. In my case I added it to the Control.


All the Best
Dave







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Custom Properties

[Scott Kane]

Hi,

First off - Dan isn't paying me to write nice
things about his books  

I just bought another one of Dan's books - this
one is about Custom Properties.  Now - I knew
CP's were pretty cool but I didn't realize just
how damn sexy they are!  My head is spinning with
the prospects this reference has introduced to me.
If, like myself, you are a newbie to Rev (I've only
been coding in Rev since last July) then I'd recommend
adding this book to your collection.  For five USD it's
a bargain.  When I've digested everything in this one
I'm going to get his book on CGI's!  :-)

Scott Kane

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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Re: List Moderation, recent threads and New Forum

[Yves COPPE]

Hi Heather,

Happy to hear you're still alive !!! (joke)

I have a simple question :

What's the difference between

 - enterprise EARLY update
and
 - enterprise update ???

Thanks.


Greetings.

Yves COPPE
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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List Moderation, recent threads and New Forum

[Heather Nagey]

Dear Folks,

The rumours of my death have been greatly exaggerated...

I merely have a family and, gasp, a life outside Runtime at weekends! I 
know, that's a terrible thing to say. I'm most grateful to Lynn for his 
dedication and monitoring of the list over the weekend, but I'm still 
here and still listmom.


So guys and gals, here it is: Wa too much noise to signal 
ratio. It's taken me hours just to get up to speed on the discussion 
for the last two days, and how much more do I know about using 
Revolution? Almost nothing! Have a thought for the poor newbie, 
desperately trying to figure out this wonderful new product s/he's just 
downloaded! While the discussion on what is or is not a bug is 
interesting, its not directly related to using Revolution. Who is or is 
not moderating the list is definitely off topic, psychology is a huge 
and fascinating subject but does not assist anyone in their coding 
efforts, foster children are wondrous things but unless they are coding 
in Revolution a couple of thousand list members don't need to know 
about them... and on several occasions I have specifically mentioned 
that wine is not a list topic! It must be the spring in the air.


If you read a post that aggravates you, the proper response is to 
complain to the list mom (me) NOT to perpetuate the thread on the list.


If you want to talk about things that do not relate to coding in 
Revolution, if you are going to self detonate if you don't get it out, 
if those fingers just won't stay off the keyboard, we have a great, 
shiny, beautiful new solution, just for you. Use the forum!


http://forums.runrev.com

Select the appropriate, off topic subforum, and post it there.

NOTE: This is not an invitation to trade insults on the forum!! Please, 
maintain the same good manners and courtesy we have asked of you and by 
and large received over the years on this list. If someone offends you, 
tell them, not us. Washing dirty linen in public is never an edifying 
sight.


We really are going to moderate this list more strictly now. Those that 
still wish to use it, don't need to read through several hours worth of 
dubious off topic posts just to find useful information they need. Off 
topic = Forum. Rudeness= Not In Public.


Thanks for the links to the forum-email addon option. We'll look into 
it, and let you all know what we can do.


Please don't respond to this post on the list. Respond to me, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], if you have something you need to say.


warm regards to all,

Heather

Heather Nagey, Customer Support Manager
Runtime Revolution Ltd
www.runrev.com

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[ANN] A place to discuss xTalk issues freely

[Curry]

Dear fellow Rev users,

Recently I've been thinking of the xTalk discussions I've experienced in the 
past on various lists over the years, and also the ones I'm seeing currently. 
I've been thinking about starting a place where all xTalk issues can be 
discussed freely, really freely and completely--that is, neither limited by the 
particular xTalk product, nor the area discussed (technical or general, etc.), 
nor marketing considerations, nor heavy focus on perception of 
negativity/positivity, nor even discouraging debate.

In other words, a place to speak freely about xTalk--any and all related 
matters. Part of the reason for this is that sometimes the need is evident for 
a place that's not limited by product (Rev, SC, etc.) yet discussions of 
particular product(s) are welcome as well as general xTalk considerations; and 
also not limited by the area of focus, so that types of discussions are 
possible that might not really fit within other lists.

But another reason is the need for a place to truly speak freely, where 
different views should be welcome, and there is not a sense of having to hold 
back from speaking out because of secondary reasons, such as avoiding 
"negativity" or keeping the marketing of a particular product in mind. In my 
view, when discussing xTalk, such secondary considerations can get in the way 
of discussing a primary issue itself, and I believe they often do.

The latter reason has been growing on me lately as I watched some current 
discussions, and I have to credit certain discussions during the last couple of 
days for finally prompting me into action. (Wow.)

As an xTalk addict with a degree in communications, as well as being a human 
rights and democracy advocate, I believe that people truly have a need to 
discuss and communicate freely about issues with xTalk and xCalk products. 
Understanding, help, progress, sharing experiences and views, contributing 
ideas and suggestions, discussing theoretical situations or very practical 
current issues or problems, talking about the good as well as the bad, and even 
simply being able to speak your mind--I believe all these are crucial to humans 
in any area of their lives and efforts, including their use of xTalk and 
environments such as RunRev and the others that have come about since HyperCard.

Effective communication is more than just important, it's what makes so many 
other things possible. When discussion is limited too much, other things 
suffer--as do people and communities. Obviously, there have to be some limits 
in place on any list, and when lists officially represent particular products, 
of course there are more limits. How far these limits should go is an 
interesting matter to think about also, but rather than giving my opinion about 
that right here at this time, I'd rather just see a solution instead. I care 
about people, and about xTalk, and about xCard products of course, in fact of 
all of them, including Revolution.

And so, I am taking this opportunity to offer a new list where all discussions 
related to xTalk are welcome, and no one is discouraged from speaking civilly 
about relevant topics under normal conditions, even if that involves some 
debate or controversy, and where there are none of those secondary 
considerations hanging around in the background. If you feel that you've been 
unable to speak out in some areas, if you wish to speak more freely in other 
areas, if you need a place to say something, you will be welcome. I call it 
xDiscussion.

That's not to say that this is only to be a list for the controversial. On the 
contrary, I want to encourage all sorts of discussions, and think the need for 
a product-neutral, widely focused list on xTalk goes far beyond that one area. 
I also hope that the list definition provides a place for other discussions 
that don't fit exactly into existing lists, as well as general ones.

That's also not to say that this should be considered a replacement for 
existing lists, of course, which can be used for areas of discussion that fit 
well into their focus and requirements--and are allowed--I think it makes sense 
to use the proper list for a discussion, like using the proper tool for a job, 
so this is a tool for some jobs that could be difficult otherwise. In fact, 
this could possibly even prove useful to existing lists, such as this one, and 
list owners can feel free to recommend it. This post certainly should not be 
seen as a discouragement from using any existing list(s), but as a new resource 
offering new opportunities. If the list grows, I will try to encourage it as a 
place for complete, free, thoughtful, polite, diverse, and fair discussions.

I've looked at existing lists and as far as I know there's nothing exactly like 
this out there. (See below for a couple of other useful lists with different 
focus.)

Anyway, it's there if you need it, and I offer it in the hope that it helps 
people as well as the general cause of xTalk.

He