Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Chipp, not saying you are wrong, but how would you know? That's the thing that got me, and why I think Alejandro's thought of taking Windows offline is quite sensible. The problem with windows getting compromised is I am not sure you necessarily know when its happened. Most studies on anti malware seem to show that you need more than one, and even then, you don't catch everything. That's why I refuse to disinfect now. It takes forever, and you cannot promise a proper job even then. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Browsing-the-internet-It-is-safer-from-Linux-tp3020657p3021793.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Peter, AVG does regular scans of my drives. Furthermore, I every now and then do spyware checks and I do a lot of high end rendering, which needs about 99% of my processor, so I'm fairly familiar with the services and apps I run. I have a network monitor gauge on my desktop which let's me know what's going out and coming in. So, I guess if there is malware on my machine, it's never caused me any problems, as it doesn't seem to consume processor cycles or network bandwidth, and I have never seen any identity theft. And seeing how I make my living on my Windows machine, and have since around 1994 (before that it was a Mac), I would find it very debilitating to have to take it off the network because I was scared of malware. But, if anyone is very concerned of such attacks, than by all means unplug it from the network. And NEVER plug a USB drive into it. And it's always a good idea to unplug it from the wall during a storm-- while you stand under a doorway or curl up fetal-like in the tub-- just to be super safe. On Monday, November 1, 2010, Peter Alcibiades palcibiades-fi...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Chipp, not saying you are wrong, but how would you know? That's the thing that got me, and why I think Alejandro's thought of taking Windows offline is quite sensible. The problem with windows getting compromised is I am not sure you necessarily know when its happened. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Hello All, While i develop all my stuff under OSX and deploy mainly on Linux or OSX, i have to deploy some kind of AI 24/7 calculation solutions under Win7 because, as anyone knows, the most usefull feature of win is that it runs twice faster as POSIX systems (no ixinetd,... services management, etc...). At this point, those Win7 calculators are mainly protected by a Linux-based DSL router's firewall, Windows Defender and the GPL ClamWin AntiVirus (both always up to date). Is that a correct way to go or do i need to rely on a more advanced security plan/solution ? TIA, Best, Pierre Le 1 nov. 2010 à 10:41, Chipp Walters a écrit : Peter, AVG does regular scans of my drives. Furthermore, I every now and then do spyware checks and I do a lot of high end rendering, which needs about 99% of my processor, so I'm fairly familiar with the services and apps I run. I have a network monitor gauge on my desktop which let's me know what's going out and coming in. So, I guess if there is malware on my machine, it's never caused me any problems, as it doesn't seem to consume processor cycles or network bandwidth, and I have never seen any identity theft. And seeing how I make my living on my Windows machine, and have since around 1994 (before that it was a Mac), I would find it very debilitating to have to take it off the network because I was scared of malware. But, if anyone is very concerned of such attacks, than by all means unplug it from the network. And NEVER plug a USB drive into it. And it's always a good idea to unplug it from the wall during a storm-- while you stand under a doorway or curl up fetal-like in the tub-- just to be super safe. On Monday, November 1, 2010, Peter Alcibiades palcibiades-fi...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Chipp, not saying you are wrong, but how would you know? That's the thing that got me, and why I think Alejandro's thought of taking Windows offline is quite sensible. The problem with windows getting compromised is I am not sure you necessarily know when its happened. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- Pierre Sahores mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70 www.wrds.com www.sahores-conseil.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Peter, with all due respect, in every case except the most recent, the hacks involved convincing a user to click here on this button, enter your admin user name and password and click OK. Don't worry we are only trying to help. I don't deny that there have been vulnerabilities related to browsers, java, even PDF's and Flash. But these are (for the most part) doors opened by someone else's software, NOT vulnerabilities in the core OS. The other (and primary) avenue of exploitation involves downloading and installing cracked software that a user gets from a warez site or some such place. Those who get hacked by this route are imbeciles and deserve to have their bank accounts razed (showing restraint in the words I choose here.) Let's eliminate these as hacks since the users willingly install illegal software, and no one would put up for a moment an OS that refused to do what you told it to do because it thought what you were telling it to do was dangerous. So look here, can we all just agree that anything requiring a user to enter his admin credentials is NOT A HACK? Can we agree at least that this is NOT A VULNERABILITY? Secondly, can we agree that vulnerabilities in software that is NOT a part of the core OS is not a flaw in the core OS? If you agree to these things, then you cannot possibly characterize Mac OS X as a dead duck fairly, without also admitting that every other OS ever written or will be written is by the same token exactly as dead a duck as the Mac OS. Let's play fair when talking about such things. In such matters, truth is more important that who's side you take, or whose OS you prefer. Bob On Oct 31, 2010, at 2:22 AM, Peter Alcibiades wrote: Yes, the interesting question, don't know the answer, is if you set up windows in the same way Linux is normally set up, limited user accounts and so on, how much more vulnerable would it be? Those hack fests they have every so often suggest that OSX is a dead duck almost right away, Windows not long after, and Linux holds out longest. But I don't know what the starting setup is on the windows installation. Peter -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Browsing-the-internet-It-is-safer-from-Linux-tp3020657p3020955.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Hah! I made the same mistake, but caught myself mid-reply. :-) Bob On Oct 31, 2010, at 1:07 PM, roger.e.el...@sealedair.com wrote: Roger.E.Eller wrote: It is in many cases the virus makers themselves who infect Windows, and then use FAKE anti-virus messages that offer to cleanse your machine for a fee. Richard Gaskin replied: URL? I'm sometimes prone to notions that seem conspiratorial myself, but while this meme has been floating around for a few years I've not yet been able to find any actual case where this has been demonstrated to have happened. No no no no... I said VIRUS MAKERS, not ANTI-virus makers. One of the most common viruses is called Anti-Virus 2010, which spoofs a window to look almost identical to a real antivirus window. No conspriacy, just tricky devils. Google it, but be careful, some of the rusults can lead you to an infecting site. ~Roger ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Let me weigh in one more time, for those who think that setting up a machine with all the security measures you can, but without using some kind of anti-virus/anti-spyware solution is safe enough. Recently, our radio station web site was hacked via a simple php exploit. The people who we contracted to build the web site for us did absolutely NO hardening of the site, and thus we have been vulnerable all this time. The hackers (somewhere in Europe it turns out) redirected to their site which popped up one of those fake Your computer has been compromised! Click here to clean your system drive by exploits. The people running PC's were already infected by going to the site, before even clicking on the Clean Now button. No mac users were infected, primarily because the site was not written to compromise Mac's but also because it's really really hard to drive by compromise a Mac if the OS is up to date, along with Java, your browser, flash etc. The window of opportunity is just too small for it to be worthwhile. Windows users with up to date OS and software, along with an installed AV product, were also not infected. Finally, it took less than 24 hours for our domain to get blacklisted, so at that point only people without AV were getting infected. No one else could actually get there. My point is this. Modern AV software uses multiple methods to protect an OS. One is Suspicious Activity reporting. Another is signature based. Another is blacklist subscriptions. Another is Heuristics (a fancy way of saying, You look like malware we know about so we are going to block you just to be safe). An up-to-date OS and 3rd party software strategy, safe browsing habits (no porn, no warez etc) COMBINED with a good AV product, is enough to protect from anything except the most insidious zero day exploit. And the window of opportunity is so small in those cases, that your odds of getting compromised is almost nil. Honestly, if I know that my neighbors are home break in experts, even if I have an electric fence, and the latest in home alarm systems, I am not going to turn down a guard dog or two, just because I feel safe enough. Bob Sneidar IT Manager Logos Management Calvary Chapel CM ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Hi Chipp, Chipp Walters wrote: AVG does regular scans of my drives. [snip] And seeing how I make my living on my Windows machine, and have since around 1994 (before that it was a Mac), I would find it very debilitating to have to take it off the network because I was scared of malware. Completely agree. :-) Chipp Walters wrote: [snip] But, if anyone is very concerned of such attacks, than by all means unplug it from the network. And NEVER plug a USB drive into it. And it's always a good idea to unplug it from the wall during a storm-- while you stand under a doorway or curl up fetal-like in the tub-- just to be super safe. This last part sounds like an idea for a comedy sketch in Satuday Night Live (using dramatic background music) or Mad Magazine (with a suitable drawing style) ROTFL... :-D Anyway, probably my reaction is a direct result of hearing these podcast from Security Now! http://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm If... you do not feel deeply concerned about your Windows OS security (after hearing many of their podcast), then... you are definitely more confident than me about the security of your System. end if... What does everybody think about these security topics explained in these podcasts? Al -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Browsing-the-internet-It-is-safer-from-Linux-tp3020657p3022582.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Alejandro, Steve Gibson is a well known security consult who makes his living dealing in cyber security-- and he lives right here in Austin, TX. I've known him for a long time, and he's very respected in the industry, as is Leo Laporte. Steve's extremely detail oriented to the point of compulsion about security, and his software attempts to point out any potential vulnerability, no matter how small. I haven't tested my system with his ShieldsUp! diagnosis software for at least a couple years now-- and when I just did, I received a perfect score. Like Bob has said, any platform with any security configuration, can be exploited using social hacks. So, like the great majority (75+% worldwide?) of users, I continue to use Windows. I am sorry you have found it too insecure and problematic to use. Perhaps you should consider running it inside a virtual instance? Or, download AVG and learn about how to avoid social hacks. On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Alejandro Tejada capellan2...@gmail.comwrote: Hi Chipp, Chipp Walters wrote: Anyway, probably my reaction is a direct result of hearing these podcast from Security Now! http://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm If... you do not feel deeply concerned about your Windows OS security (after hearing many of their podcast), then... you are definitely more confident than me about the security of your System. end if... What does everybody think about these security topics explained in these podcasts? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
I listen to Leo on the radio every Saturday. I really respect his knowledge and expertise, as I am an IT guy, and can verify that what he says is almost always spot on. However, a lot of what is discussed in these podcasts are what COULD be done, not what is ACTUALLY HAPPENING on a regular basis in the wild. The simple way to put all of this is that once information is in a digital format, and you open these regular lines of communication to the internet, the data, as protected as you may think it is, is now in the open meaning you no longer have the ability to monitor or control it. What anyone can do with that information, once they have it, depends largely on what you do on the internet. You can make a good argument that shopping or banking online is a risky proposition. Any disgruntled IT kid can steal your information pretty easily if the IT at the site is not up to snuff. And if Google can be hijacked, then I don't think anyone can say that their web site is completely secure, so drive by downloads are going to be around for a while methinks. The thing to consider is that the more malicious people are with the information they collect, the more risky the proposition. But the web is not the only place this information is derived. Send in an application for employment, and someone is going to either type the information in to a computer, or else file it in a cabinet that at least a few people have access to. Same thing with applying for a credit card. So even if you threw away your computer today and never touched a keyboard again, this is not going to protect you from identity theft or a compromised credit card account. The whole point is that information about you is out there in the open and if someone tries hard enough they can get it and use it to their advantage and your loss. The internet just makes it a bit easier for them to get at it. Bob On Nov 1, 2010, at 11:25 AM, Alejandro Tejada wrote: If... you do not feel deeply concerned about your Windows OS security (after hearing many of their podcast), then... you are definitely more confident than me about the security of your System. end if... What does everybody think about these security topics explained in these podcasts? Al -- ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
I don't know if its safer than current versions of Windows 7 intelligently used. It certainly is a lot safer than earlier versions of XP, used as they came out of the box. One reason is that desktop linux is a small population and so not being targeted. A second is when you do an install, it will obliged you to set up a root account and a lmited user account, and your limited user account will not be able to get at the system files. A typical example of this is with Rev sorry LiveCode - download the new version, try to install it, cannot. Its not executable, and then, it tries to install itself in /opt and you have to be root to do that. A third is that all payload will arrive as being unexecutable, and most of the time marked read-only. One of the things you always have to explain to people when putting in Linux for them is how to change permissions, because if not, one of the standard questions you'll get sooner or later is that someone sent me a word processing file and I cannot edit it. Right, its marked read only. So you contrast that with a situation in which for decades everyone used the internet with administrative prilvileges, all downloaded files arrived market executable. Then we had the saga of Explorer and all its holes, all the Office macros But the real question might be this: if you were to set up your windows install to always work as limited user, and if you enable privacy between user accounts, and finally if you use a dedicated account for all financial transactions and only use that account to go to a very small number of known financial sites, and if you have up to date anti virus, are you any more at risk than on Linux? I don't know. I hear of compromised windows installations all the time. Admittedly they are not Windows 7 mostly, though I heard of one of these the other day. They are not set up like that either, they are the standard default set-up. My feeling is that you probably can keep a windows installation safe, if you work at it, and really keep your protection software up to date. Its just a question of what you want to spend your time doing. For what its worth, my own decision years ago was to do what you are suggesting. I do run XP in a VM for the rare occasions when its necessary, but almost never connect to the net with it. I decided that I could probably keep Windows secure if I worked at it, but that life is too short, and I the big difficulty was how I would know I had succeeded. As to one of those risks on one of your links, guest users, well, of course you set up a guest account on any Linux install, and if people want to use your machine you sign them on as guest. You don't allow the guest group to read any of the other user files, even. You can wipe and recreate the guest account as often as you feel the need. You could do this on windows too, but no-one does. Slax is a good live CD distribution. It might also be worth looking at Vector live and Zenwalk live - they will be faster than most live distributions. I would install Debian Stable if doing a proper desktop installation. Once you start using Linux routinely, you will be surprised how little you need Windows. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Browsing-the-internet-It-is-safer-from-Linux-tp3020657p3020879.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Peter Alcibiades wrote: I don't know if its safer than current versions of Windows 7 intelligently used. It certainly is a lot safer than earlier versions of XP, used as they came out of the box. Even as Dell gets bribed by MS to put those silly We recommend Windows 7 graphics on their site, they couldn't stop themselves from mentioning that they feel Ubuntu is actually safer: Memo From Dell: Ubuntu Linux Is Safer Than Windows http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/06/10/memo-from-dell-ubuntu-linux-is-safer-than-windows/ ;) One reason is that desktop linux is a small population and so not being targeted. Maybe, but maybe not: Windows v Linux security: the real facts http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/22/linux_v_windows_security/ A second is when you do an install, it will obliged you to set up a root account and a lmited user account, and your limited user account will not be able to get at the system files. That can be done on Mac and Win, but few users bother and neither OS vendor does very much to educate their customers about why it's valuable. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Every time I have installed a variant of Windows on a machine that is connected to the Internet, sooner rather than later, things have gone 'queer'. Therefore, as I have to have a Windows box for software testing, I have a machine that is NEVER connected to the internet, and the ONLY files I transfer to it are my own for testing. First off: 1. I have never liked the idea of having to buy a product that is 'dicky' as soon as it is unwrapped, and even mentions the fact in its documentation. Second point: I use a variety of Linux boxes and Macs around my home and my business and have never had any problems that could be ascribed to internet browsing, ftp-ing, or otherwise [ normally problems can simply be ascribed to my having been too clever for my own good, mucking around with operating system underpinnings ]. On the very, very few occasions I have had to connect to the internet with the dreaded Internet Explorer [ i.e. to see how my website looks ] I have used IE with WINE [ a sort of Windowsy thing that lets you run most Windows programs on Linux ]. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Coo! Memo From Dell: Ubuntu Linux Is Safer Than Windows http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/06/10/memo-from-dell-ubuntu-linux-is-safer-than-windows/ I wonder how long that will be there before the chaps in dark glasses pop round to DELL for a friendly chat? It really never ceases to amaze me that Microsoft have built an empire on the fact that donkeys years ago the choice was between expensive Macs and cheap PCs that really only worked with Windows; Linux with a window-manager such as GNOME or KDE really does make one wonder why folks who wouldn't hesitate give the choice between a donkey cart and a Toyota Corolla, still go for the (admittedly souped-up) donkey cart when it comes to an operating system. I will always go for a FREE Toyota Corolla rather than a PAID souped-up donkey cart. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Yes, the interesting question, don't know the answer, is if you set up windows in the same way Linux is normally set up, limited user accounts and so on, how much more vulnerable would it be? Those hack fests they have every so often suggest that OSX is a dead duck almost right away, Windows not long after, and Linux holds out longest. But I don't know what the starting setup is on the windows installation. Peter -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Browsing-the-internet-It-is-safer-from-Linux-tp3020657p3020955.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Peter, where do you get these 'facts' about the security and vulnerability of MacOS today? Your statement just doesn't match up with my experience with the OS. Dead Duck? On 31 October 2010 02:22, Peter Alcibiades palcibiades-fi...@yahoo.co.ukwrote: OSX is a dead duck almost right away, Windows not long after, and Linux holds out longest. But I don't know what the starting setup is on the windows installation. Peter Stephen Barncard San Francisco Ca. USA more about sqb http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
On 10/31/10 4:22 AM, Peter Alcibiades wrote: Those hack fests they have every so often suggest that OSX is a dead duck almost right away, Windows not long after, and Linux holds out longest. Is that true? I'd always heard that OS X ranks about even with Linux because it's core is *nix. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
It's probably about a yearly hacking contest, where boxes are setup and then people are invited to hack them. Mac OS X did indeed succumb most quickly there in the last few years. In addition there has been reports of one infection in the wild that uses java, and is able to run on mac os as well as on windows. Windows is protected by UAC, Antivirus, and windows defender. I'd argue that in everyday environments, windows is actually better secured then mac os and maybe on even footing with linux. On the flipside, it's also the most likely one to be targeted. Because most infections for people like us come in randomly, the risk of having a crisis is therefore far bigger on windows. I do have a windows machine, and I consider it the insecure one, compared to my unpatched mac os x server and my everyday machine. Linux is too hard to use for me, so I can't comment much on that, beyond it probably not being the target of anyone with it's almost inexistent market share among non-tech oriented users. On 31 Oct 2010, at 18:57, stephen barncard wrote: Peter, where do you get these 'facts' about the security and vulnerability of MacOS today? Your statement just doesn't match up with my experience with the OS. Dead Duck? On 31 October 2010 02:22, Peter Alcibiades palcibiades-fi...@yahoo.co.ukwrote: OSX is a dead duck almost right away, Windows not long after, and Linux holds out longest. But I don't know what the starting setup is on the windows installation. -- official ChatRev page: http://bjoernke.com?target=chatrev Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev; ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
On 10/31/2010 07:57 PM, stephen barncard wrote: Peter, where do you get these 'facts' about the security and vulnerability of MacOS today? Your statement just doesn't match up with my experience with the OS. Dead Duck? Well Idon't know; my ducks have been alive and quacking for years with not a single problem; I find it absolutely hilarious that you think Windows is more secure than Mac OS; but, hey, maybe I'm just one naive cookie who stupidly believes that the Toyota Auris we just bought is a safer bet than my cousin's 3 wheeled Trabant from 1982; guess I was fooled by those naughty Japanese, instead of sticking with the German Democratic Republic . . . :) Hey, while I'm here, has anybody noticed that Erich Honecker and Bill Gates have a certain Je ne sais quoi in common? On 31 October 2010 02:22, Peter Alcibiadespalcibiades-fi...@yahoo.co.ukwrote: OSX is a dead duck almost right away, Windows not long after, and Linux holds out longest. But I don't know what the starting setup is on the windows installation. Peter Stephen Barncard San Francisco Ca. USA more about sqbhttp://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
On 10/31/2010 08:12 PM, Björnke von Gierke wrote: It's probably about a yearly hacking contest, where boxes are setup and then people are invited to hack them. Mac OS X did indeed succumb most quickly there in the last few years. In addition there has been reports of one infection in the wild that uses java, and is able to run on mac os as well as on windows. Windows is protected by UAC, Antivirus, and windows defender. I'd argue that in everyday environments, windows is actually better secured then mac os and maybe on even footing with linux. On the flipside, it's also the most likely one to be targeted. Because most infections for people like us come in randomly, the risk of having a crisis is therefore far bigger on windows. I do have a windows machine, and I consider it the insecure one, compared to my unpatched mac os x server and my everyday machine. Linux is too hard to use for me, so I can't comment much on that, beyond it probably not being the target of anyone with it's almost inexistent market share among non-tech oriented users. The first thing I do when I install Mac OS X on a machine is enable the ROOT account; that is dead easy; especially as the Mac OS HELP system tells you how to do it. Set up the FIREWALL, SHARING and so on. Windows, on the other hand, starts telling you to fork out extra moolah for anti-virus stuff . . . On 31 Oct 2010, at 18:57, stephen barncard wrote: Peter, where do you get these 'facts' about the security and vulnerability of MacOS today? Your statement just doesn't match up with my experience with the OS. Dead Duck? On 31 October 2010 02:22, Peter Alcibiadespalcibiades-fi...@yahoo.co.ukwrote: OSX is a dead duck almost right away, Windows not long after, and Linux holds out longest. But I don't know what the starting setup is on the windows installation. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Yes, it was the annual hackfests. I only know two people with OSX, and neither one has been compromised. Whether the Unix underpinnings make OSX more secure? I think the hacks, but maybe others recall better, were due to applications and privilege escalation. I am really not sure what to conclude about real world safety. If you set up all three systems the same way, with the same basic precautions, would there be any significant differences in security? Don't know. I do know that I have had two people recently, one with 7 and one with XP, ask me for help with compromised systems. I refuse to try to disinfect now, so one who did not want to risk it again got Mandriva, with which he is very happy, in fact, despite my efforts to explain, I suspect he may think its Windows 8 or 9, and the other got an OEM copy of 7, and we will be doing a reformat and reinstall shortly. I do think there is a very different attitude on the part of developers. Linux, you see it in everything, is completely paranoid about security. I recall years ago when the kde dialer went to enormous lengths to take root privileges for the shortest possible and most limited time. Apple I think is quite casual because of years of low risk. Windows seems to have this strange mixture of not taking the most basic precautions, and then layering on all kinds of stuff to protect it. I have never heard of a non-server compromised Linux install. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Browsing-the-internet-It-is-safer-from-Linux-tp3020657p3021414.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Le 31 oct. 2010 à 19:00, J. Landman Gay a écrit : On 10/31/10 4:22 AM, Peter Alcibiades wrote: Those hack fests they have every so often suggest that OSX is a dead duck almost right away, Windows not long after, and Linux holds out longest. Is that true? I'd always heard that OS X ranks about even with Linux because it's core is *nix. Jacque, OSX or Linux are still mainly safe, as long as the firewall, user accounts and networked services are normally set. Don't worry. No way at all to hack remotely a MacOS X box in less time than to say, alike some smiling kids like, target internal HD remotely unmounted ;-) Kind Regards, -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- Pierre Sahores mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70 www.wrds.com www.sahores-conseil.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Richmond wrote: The first thing I do when I install Mac OS X on a machine is enable the ROOT account; that is dead easy; especially as the Mac OS HELP system tells you how to do it. Set up the FIREWALL, SHARING and so on. Windows, on the other hand, starts telling you to fork out extra moolah for anti-virus stuff . . . Incorrect, to a degree. It is in many cases the virus makers themselves who infect Windows, and then use FAKE anti-virus messages that offer to cleanse your machine for a fee. The average non-tech-savy user will pay the ransom. However, the free-edition of AVG has protected my computers for years. However, recently a Trojan slipped through, and I switched to Microsoft Security Essentials (also free), on the recommendations of several trusted colleagues. It isn't Windows that is bad, it is SkyNet. ;-) Sorry, I'm watching the Sarah Conner Chronicals. ~Roger ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Roger.E.Eller wrote: It is in many cases the virus makers themselves who infect Windows, and then use FAKE anti-virus messages that offer to cleanse your machine for a fee. URL? I'm sometimes prone to notions that seem conspiratorial myself, but while this meme has been floating around for a few years I've not yet been able to find any actual case where this has been demonstrated to have happened. Not to say that if it hasn't been proven it's impossible, but it's such a harsh accusation of massively destructive criminal fraud with potentially billions on the line that one would think that if such stories were true many - including the FBI - would be well motivated to corroborate. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Roger.E.Eller wrote: It is in many cases the virus makers themselves who infect Windows, and then use FAKE anti-virus messages that offer to cleanse your machine for a fee. Richard Gaskin replied: URL? I'm sometimes prone to notions that seem conspiratorial myself, but while this meme has been floating around for a few years I've not yet been able to find any actual case where this has been demonstrated to have happened. No no no no... I said VIRUS MAKERS, not ANTI-virus makers. One of the most common viruses is called Anti-Virus 2010, which spoofs a window to look almost identical to a real antivirus window. No conspriacy, just tricky devils. Google it, but be careful, some of the rusults can lead you to an infecting site. ~Roger ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Recently, Richard Gaskin wrote: It is in many cases the virus makers themselves who infect Windows, and then use FAKE anti-virus messages that offer to cleanse your machine for a fee. URL? I'm sometimes prone to notions that seem conspiratorial myself, but while this meme has been floating around for a few years I've not yet been able to find any actual case where this has been demonstrated to have happened. I'm surprised you've never come across this Richard. Several weekends ago I spent several hours getting rid of this one on my father-in-law's laptop: http://deletemalware.blogspot.com/2010/10/how-to-remove-smart-engine-malwar e.html These things been around for years and are only getting better (more official looking and more difficult to remove). Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX Design ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Guess I should clarify, it's not put out by an antivirus company, it is software that's been rewritten to rip off people whose machines it infects. Recently, I wrote: Recently, Richard Gaskin wrote: It is in many cases the virus makers themselves who infect Windows, and then use FAKE anti-virus messages that offer to cleanse your machine for a fee. URL? I'm sometimes prone to notions that seem conspiratorial myself, but while this meme has been floating around for a few years I've not yet been able to find any actual case where this has been demonstrated to have happened. I'm surprised you've never come across this Richard. Several weekends ago I spent several hours getting rid of this one on my father-in-law's laptop: http://deletemalware.blogspot.com/2010/10/how-to-remove-smart-engine-malwar e.html These things been around for years and are only getting better (more official looking and more difficult to remove). Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX Design ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
On 10/31/2010 09:34 PM, roger.e.el...@sealedair.com wrote: Richmond wrote: The first thing I do when I install Mac OS X on a machine is enable the ROOT account; that is dead easy; especially as the Mac OS HELP system tells you how to do it. Set up the FIREWALL, SHARING and so on. Windows, on the other hand, starts telling you to fork out extra moolah for anti-virus stuff . . . Incorrect, to a degree. It is in many cases the virus makers themselves who infect Windows, and then use FAKE anti-virus messages that offer to cleanse your machine for a fee. The average non-tech-savy user will pay the ransom. However, the free-edition of AVG has protected my computers for years. However, recently a Trojan slipped through, and I switched to Microsoft Security Essentials (also free), on the recommendations of several trusted colleagues. It isn't Windows that is bad, it is SkyNet. ;-) Sorry, I'm watching the Sarah Conner Chronicals. ~Roger Well; in this case, at least, I am perfectly happy to be wrong, and am extremely happy to hear that you can successfully protect a Windows machine with a minimum of outlay. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Microsoft security essentials is the target of another spoof alert attack, though I'm sure you got the real microsoft security essentials from the microsoft site, I've had to fix this one for a friend, recently in fact. http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/virus-removal/remove-fake-microsoft-security-essentials-alert While most of the time, it's obvious that it's a scan, but not always. What is it the IRA statement to Margaret Thatcher said? (goes to find it) Today we were unlucky, but remember we only have to be lucky once. You will have to be lucky always. I see Virii in the same light, minus the bombs, blood and death. Heck, I see spoof emails in the same light too. Send out 12 million and you don't have to get many bites to make it worthwhile. On 10/31/10, roger.e.el...@sealedair.com roger.e.el...@sealedair.com wrote: Richmond wrote: The first thing I do when I install Mac OS X on a machine is enable the ROOT account; that is dead easy; especially as the Mac OS HELP system tells you how to do it. Set up the FIREWALL, SHARING and so on. Windows, on the other hand, starts telling you to fork out extra moolah for anti-virus stuff . . . Incorrect, to a degree. It is in many cases the virus makers themselves who infect Windows, and then use FAKE anti-virus messages that offer to cleanse your machine for a fee. The average non-tech-savy user will pay the ransom. However, the free-edition of AVG has protected my computers for years. However, recently a Trojan slipped through, and I switched to Microsoft Security Essentials (also free), on the recommendations of several trusted colleagues. It isn't Windows that is bad, it is SkyNet. ;-) Sorry, I'm watching the Sarah Conner Chronicals. ~Roger ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Sounds like you have users with unsafe browsing habits, who end up falling for many of the social attacks out there. I have the same problem in my household, but I've cured all but my Dad, who insists on downloading and installing every exe he runs across which claims to make his system run faster. :-) I've used the free version of AVG since XP with ZERO problems on a bunch of computers, including my current two with Win 7. I'm not saying no one else has viruses on Windows, just not ones I use. On Sunday, October 31, 2010, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote: Every time I have installed a variant of Windows on a machine that is connected to the Internet, sooner rather than later, things have gone 'queer'. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
[OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Hi All, Recently I have been considering seriously to unplug all my Windows computers from the internet and use only Linux to browse and download updates. In truth, How safe is using Linux browsers in the internet? Most exploits seems directed to Windows and Mac users but are Linux users really exempt from these risks??? What are your first hand experiences with the most common security risks under the Linux platform? http://www.owasp.org/index.php/Main_Page http://e-articles.info/e/a/title/Which-Are-The-Most-Common-Network-Security-Risks/ http://www.bangkokpost.com/tech/technews/34952/today-10-most-common-security-threats-on-the-net http://www.brighthub.com/internet/security-privacy/articles/3438.aspx Thanks in advance! Alejandro ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
Alejandro , When did you last hear about a Mac virus? I don't like to boast, but.. I practice safe computing and a good router and don't use any anti-virus software at all on any of my 4 macs. Haven't had a virus problem since 2002. All running Leopard. Am I being foolish? I find the need for the annoying McCaffe software when I've used XP quite disgusting. If the OS is so bad you have to use a third party app to 'protect' yourself The symbiotic relationship between McCaffee and Microsoft is kinda creepy. There's even a button I did not install that goes to their website imbedded in IE 6. Downloads are almost always easy fast and safe on macs On 30 October 2010 14:25, Alejandro Tejada capellan2...@gmail.com wrote: Hi All, Recently I have been considering seriously to unplug all my Windows computers from the internet and use only Linux to browse and download updates. In truth, How safe is using Linux browsers in the internet? Most exploits seems directed to Windows and Mac users but are Linux users really exempt from these risks??? What are your first hand experiences with the most common security risks under the Linux platform? http://www.owasp.org/index.php/Main_Page http://e-articles.info/e/a/title/Which-Are-The-Most-Common-Network-Security-Risks/ http://www.bangkokpost.com/tech/technews/34952/today-10-most-common-security-threats-on-the-net http://www.brighthub.com/internet/security-privacy/articles/3438.aspx Thanks in advance! Alejandro ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- Stephen Barncard San Francisco Ca. USA more about sqb http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?
If you're only wanting to browse, and are not sure a particular site can be trusted, you might try using a live linux cd and browse from there. Might not hurt to unmount your hard drive partition if you do this just as an added layer of protection. Some live cd's auto mount what they can find, some don't. I run clamXav on my mac just because i was curious, but have never found anything with it. As far as downloading updates with linux, if you download something with a trojan, and transfer it to your windows machine, you can still get nailed unless your windows AV or malware scanner picks it up. In many cases it boils down to whether you believe the site you are downloading from can be trusted or not. I ran windows for a lot of years and didn't have too much trouble. Was surely not trouble free by any means. In some ways, I think its worse now. Cross session hijacking, clickjacking, browser exploits. With things moving closer and closer to being cloud based, I suspect things are going to get really really ugly before they get better. Just my opinion though. On 10/30/10, stephen barncard stephenrevoluti...@barncard.com wrote: Alejandro , When did you last hear about a Mac virus? I don't like to boast, but.. I practice safe computing and a good router and don't use any anti-virus software at all on any of my 4 macs. Haven't had a virus problem since 2002. All running Leopard. Am I being foolish? I find the need for the annoying McCaffe software when I've used XP quite disgusting. If the OS is so bad you have to use a third party app to 'protect' yourself The symbiotic relationship between McCaffee and Microsoft is kinda creepy. There's even a button I did not install that goes to their website imbedded in IE 6. Downloads are almost always easy fast and safe on macs On 30 October 2010 14:25, Alejandro Tejada capellan2...@gmail.com wrote: Hi All, Recently I have been considering seriously to unplug all my Windows computers from the internet and use only Linux to browse and download updates. In truth, How safe is using Linux browsers in the internet? Most exploits seems directed to Windows and Mac users but are Linux users really exempt from these risks??? What are your first hand experiences with the most common security risks under the Linux platform? http://www.owasp.org/index.php/Main_Page http://e-articles.info/e/a/title/Which-Are-The-Most-Common-Network-Security-Risks/ http://www.bangkokpost.com/tech/technews/34952/today-10-most-common-security-threats-on-the-net http://www.brighthub.com/internet/security-privacy/articles/3438.aspx Thanks in advance! Alejandro ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- Stephen Barncard San Francisco Ca. USA more about sqb http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
