Skyfire for Flash on iPhone, iPad
This might be old news to the Mac Mavens. If not, check out this link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/02/skyfire-app-enables-flash-video_n_777820.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Reducing flash with revVideoGrabber - any suggestions?
I'm working on a kiosk which will regularly record short clips of video. At a certain point in the sequence I open the video grabber and start previewing the video; subsequently I start recording, then switch back to preview, then close the VG altogether. Rinse, repeat. Each time the VG is initialised, the VG rectangle goes white for approximately three quarters of a second. Unfortunately in our design the screen is mostly very dark, so the white shows up really strongly. I've tried various things to reduce this - eg tying the video grabber to a featureless borderless sub-stack the size of the video rectangle, and hiding it, putting it offscreen, or putting it behind the mainstack while it initialises. Most of these fail altogether. The best I've managed to do is with the substack hidden; initialise the VG, start previewing, and give it a full second before showing the substack (I've noticed when the video actually starts, it also sometimes (?) appears dark, and takes a few frames to come to a balance - presumably this is down to the camera). Doing it this way I still get a white flash, but it's extremely short. Although the substack is hidden, the flash appears where the substack is. So I can manipulate the position of the flash, by moving the hidden substack before I initialise the VG, and then moving the substack into the correct position immediately before making it visible, after the VG has had its second to 'warm up'. If the hidden substack is moved entirely offscreen, then the whole thing fails; there's no flash, but when the substack is moved back into position and shown, there's no video either, just a white rectangle. However, if the hidden substack is partially onscreen, partially off, then the white flash is limited to the area-that-would-be-visible-if-the-substack-wasn't-hidden, and when the substack moved to the correct position and shown, it all works correctly. Hence the best I've managed to do is move the the substack so far off the bottom right of the screen that there's just one pixel it of it onscreen; the white flash is then reduced to a single pixel. Unfortunately because the overall design of the kiosk is very dark, this is still visible - but a lot less intrusive than what we started with. Although having to warm up the VG a second before I want to use it is a bore I can easily fairly easily accomodate this within the control flow. So I do now have a reasonable workaround (confession: I hadn't got this far when I started writing this email). But is this the best one can do? Is there a better approach altogether that I've missed? (The obviously completely different approach is to initialise the VG once when the kiosk launches, and leave it running all day, hiding and showing the preview/record stack as necessary. However this is going to be in a high-traffic and high-profile location, from launch, and there's not long before launch; so I'm nervous about doing this without more time for soak testing, given various anecdotes I've heard about drifting sync etc. But if there's contrary experience that this can work reliably, I'd be interested to hear about that also.) Many thanks, Ben ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Reducing flash with revVideoGrabber - any suggestions?
AFAIK - you've done the best that you can do with rev based hacks. Maybe you could contact Kevin and ask for the source code? I think there are a few other people that would really like this external improved and it would make a great open source project - especially if you could put a small ransom on it? On 13 September 2010 12:32, Ben Rubinstein benr...@cogapp.com wrote: I'm working on a kiosk which will regularly record short clips of video. At a certain point in the sequence I open the video grabber and start previewing the video; subsequently I start recording, then switch back to preview, then close the VG altogether. Rinse, repeat. Each time the VG is initialised, the VG rectangle goes white for approximately three quarters of a second. Unfortunately in our design the screen is mostly very dark, so the white shows up really strongly. I've tried various things to reduce this - eg tying the video grabber to a featureless borderless sub-stack the size of the video rectangle, and hiding it, putting it offscreen, or putting it behind the mainstack while it initialises. Most of these fail altogether. The best I've managed to do is with the substack hidden; initialise the VG, start previewing, and give it a full second before showing the substack (I've noticed when the video actually starts, it also sometimes (?) appears dark, and takes a few frames to come to a balance - presumably this is down to the camera). Doing it this way I still get a white flash, but it's extremely short. Although the substack is hidden, the flash appears where the substack is. So I can manipulate the position of the flash, by moving the hidden substack before I initialise the VG, and then moving the substack into the correct position immediately before making it visible, after the VG has had its second to 'warm up'. If the hidden substack is moved entirely offscreen, then the whole thing fails; there's no flash, but when the substack is moved back into position and shown, there's no video either, just a white rectangle. However, if the hidden substack is partially onscreen, partially off, then the white flash is limited to the area-that-would-be-visible-if-the-substack-wasn't-hidden, and when the substack moved to the correct position and shown, it all works correctly. Hence the best I've managed to do is move the the substack so far off the bottom right of the screen that there's just one pixel it of it onscreen; the white flash is then reduced to a single pixel. Unfortunately because the overall design of the kiosk is very dark, this is still visible - but a lot less intrusive than what we started with. Although having to warm up the VG a second before I want to use it is a bore I can easily fairly easily accomodate this within the control flow. So I do now have a reasonable workaround (confession: I hadn't got this far when I started writing this email). But is this the best one can do? Is there a better approach altogether that I've missed? (The obviously completely different approach is to initialise the VG once when the kiosk launches, and leave it running all day, hiding and showing the preview/record stack as necessary. However this is going to be in a high-traffic and high-profile location, from launch, and there's not long before launch; so I'm nervous about doing this without more time for soak testing, given various anecdotes I've heard about drifting sync etc. But if there's contrary experience that this can work reliably, I'd be interested to hear about that also.) Many thanks, Ben ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Flash is buggy - Where have I heard that before?
There are alternatives to Flash that are more prone to security issues. Javascript and HTML5 for example. Watch the video here: http://answers.oreilly.com/topic/1483-doug-crockford-discusses-javascript-ht ml5-security-issues/ especially from 1:35 onwards. You'll see that some people are worried about the security problems of using Javascript. I happen to like Javascript but, wow, you are so right. A lot of the trojans out of the wild today take advantage of how insecure browsers are to deliver payloads right through your browser. Sometimes your antivirus software will catch it, othertimes not. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Flash is buggy - Where have I heard that before?
Lynn Fredricks wrote: I happen to like Javascript but, wow, you are so right. A lot of the trojans out of the wild today take advantage of how insecure browsers are to deliver payloads right through your browser. Sometimes your antivirus software will catch it, othertimes not. Reminds me of one of my favorite Raneys posts, on buffer overruns: http://www.mail-archive.com/metac...@lists.runrev.com/msg02659.html And this one: http://www.mail-archive.com/metac...@lists.runrev.com/msg02350.html Excerpts: ...you should keep in mind that the average cobbled-together MetaCard server is going to be safer, at least WRT to buffer-overrun security problems (the easiest to exploit and most dangerous kind), than virtually any current open-source server program. This is obviously the case when compared with the FTP, HTTP, and BIND servers that are running on the majority of Internet hosts out there, all of which have multiple security holes like this, one of the buffer-overrun bugs in BIND (the DNS server) being the single most commonly exploited security hole in any server software. ... I certainly wouldn't rule out building or using MetaCard server software, even for protocols for which well-known (if buggy) open source software is widely available. While I don't see any big advantage to writing an FTP server in MetaCard, an HTTP server that executes CGI scripts is a different matter entirely and an area where a MetaCard server could be safer and feature-competitive with any of the alternatives. ... ...the ubiquity of buffer-overrun bugs in open source software rises to the level of criminal negligence. There is just no excuse for this kind of sloppy programming, yet not a week goes by that yet another example of this kind of thing isn't found in one of the commonly used open-source packages. I wouldn't blindly trust Microsoft software either, but at least the majority of the security holes in their products were put there deliberately to improve the usability of the products rather than as the result of poor security hygiene on the part of the developer. My advice is to not be afraid of this stuff. Sure, you have to be careful, but you can hardly do any worse a job than those hacks who are writing the software that runs the Internet ;-) :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Flash is buggy - Where have I heard that before?
Some people have found that Flash / Acrobat / Adobe Reader is/are buggy and a serious security risk. (Just in case you didn't know.) http://news.techworld.com/security/3225908/hackers-exploit-adobe-flash-and-reader-flaws/ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/10257411.stm ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Flash is buggy - Where have I heard that before?
On Jun 7, 2010, at 6:44 PM, Douglas wrote: Some people have found that Flash / Acrobat / Adobe Reader is/are buggy and a serious security risk. (Just in case you didn't know.) Those links don't claim Flash to be buggy. There is a brief mention that if Flash needs a security patch that it might back up Steve's comments about it being buggy, but that's not the same as saying that it's buggy. As for security in Flash in general, it's much like with Windows and viruses, and because nearly everyone has Flash installed, that makes a tempting target audience for hackers. There are alternatives to Flash that are more prone to security issues. Javascript and HTML5 for example. Watch the video here: http://answers.oreilly.com/topic/1483-doug-crockford-discusses-javascript-html5-security-issues/ especially from 1:35 onwards. You'll see that some people are worried about the security problems of using Javascript. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Apple developing Flash alternative
On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 3:22 AM, Chipp Walters ch...@altuit.com wrote: Interesting. Very interesting. Richard, how long do you suppose until Apple bans web apps for the iPhone/iPad AppStore unless they are only made with their new tool? Probably shortly after they make it illegal to lend your MacBook to your mother/brother etc. Oh wait, he's already done that: 5. NO RENTAL/COMMERCIAL HOSTING. You may not rent, lease, lend or provide commercial hosting services with the Software. So maybe shortly after they make it impossible for you to sell your iMac on eBay. Oh wait, he's already done that: 13. SOFTWARE TRANSFER. Internal. You may move the Software to a different Workstation Computer. After the transfer, you must completely remove the Software from the former Workstation Computer. Transfer to Third Party. The initial user of the Software may make a one-time permanent transfer of this EULA and Software to another end user, provided the initial user retains no copies of the Software. This transfer must include all of the Software (including all component parts, the media and printed materials, any upgrades, this EULA, and, if applicable, the Certificate of Authenticity). The transfer may not be an indirect transfer, such as a consignment. Prior to the transfer, the end user receiving the Software must agree to all the EULA terms. Note that if you were to sell your iMac on eBay and you had ANY back-up copies of your hard drive you'd be in direct breach of this clause. Oh, wait a minute, I'm sorry, I got the wrong EULA out, this is the Bill Gates EULA but I'm sure the Steve Jobs one says the same thing. http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/eula/home.mspx Interesting what the fine print says. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Apple developing Flash alternative
On 08/05/2010 07:32, Richard Gaskin wrote: Apple developing Flash alternative named Gianduia http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/05/07/apple_developing_flash_alternative_named_gianduia.html -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Is that Glandula as in glandular, or something vaguely Italian? Because if it is the former they seem to have chosen an unwise name. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Apple developing Flash alternative
Richmond- Sunday, May 9, 2010, 5:25:41 AM, you wrote: Is that Glandula as in glandular, or something vaguely Italian? Because if it is the former they seem to have chosen an unwise name. If you follow up and look at the link you'll see in the fourth sentence that Gianduia is named after an Italian hazelnut chocolate. I think it's an overly pretentious attempt to come up with more spinoffs from the Cocoa name, but there you go. Whether it's a wise choice of not isn't my call. Maybe their lawyers are gearing up for another trademark lawsuit. -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Apple developing Flash alternative
Is that Glandula as in glandular, or something vaguely Italian? Because if it is the former they seem to have chosen an unwise name. Apple sometimes gives different departments different names or code names so they can trace leaks. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Apple developing Flash alternative
I suspect that just as Jerry chose Rodeo for his new service, name picking is done by the people coming up with the design and choose what they like. I know in the 90's when I was in charge of a global technology call center, I went to Apple for a best practice visit and they had named their meeting rooms after sushi. You could cynically say How pretentious but the employees smiled every time they mentioned a room so they enjoyed it. Just look at the Intel chip names, obviously someone loves those location names that none of us find amusing or even memorable! Brs Neal ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Apple developing Flash alternative
On 09/05/2010 20:18, Josh Mellicker wrote: Is that Glandula as in glandular, or something vaguely Italian? Because if it is the former they seem to have chosen an unwise name. Apple sometimes gives different departments different names or code names so they can trace leaks. Leaks of what? Last time I looked computers don't have glands; maybe I'm getting out of date. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Apple developing Flash alternative
On 09/05/2010 20:25, Neal Campbell wrote: I suspect that just as Jerry chose Rodeo for his new service, name picking is done by the people coming up with the design and choose what they like. I know in the 90's when I was in charge of a global technology call center, I went to Apple for a best practice visit and they had named their meeting rooms after sushi. You could cynically say How pretentious but the employees smiled every time they mentioned a room so they enjoyed it. Just look at the Intel chip names, obviously someone loves those location names that none of us find amusing or even memorable! I think I prefer location to lactation; maybe it's a side affect of Steve Jobs' veganism. Of course it could be something linked with, say, the thyroid gland; but that doesn't make me feel very comfy either. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Apple developing Flash alternative
Richmond- Sunday, May 9, 2010, 10:46:49 AM, you wrote: Leaks of what? Last time I looked computers don't have glands; maybe I'm getting out of date. I'm fairly sure my Windows computers have bile glands. -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Apple developing Flash alternative
On 09/05/2010 20:55, Mark Wieder wrote: Richmond- Sunday, May 9, 2010, 10:46:49 AM, you wrote: Leaks of what? Last time I looked computers don't have glands; maybe I'm getting out of date. I'm fairly sure my Windows computers have bile glands. Oh, Gosh, here I am back at my computer after 4 days without; lovely holiday; and I am already feeling queasy. All I can say is that I am really rather glad that Sivakatirswami came up with 'Devawriter' for my software before I put my big, fat foot in it and gave it some sort of name that would have elicited comments and remarks of this sort. Of course; I had all sorts of fairly unprintable names in mind; and as my all-in-wrestling match to tame the RunRev-crossbreeds-with-Unicode dragon they became increasingly unprintable. On the other hand, I prefer 'Glandular' to the poncy Italian chocolate . . . :) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: [OT] Apple developing Flash alternative
Apple developing Flash alternative named Gianduia http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/05/07/apple_developin g_flash_alternative_named_gianduia.html Isn't this just another javascript framework? While I see some duplication of functions, I have been wondering how these (abeit increasingly powerful) frameworks completely replace Flash or Rev for that matter, delivered through a plugin experience. We see a lot of examples of implementation but not very sophisticated editing and testing environments for them. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Apple developing Flash alternative
Over the past 2 or 3 years, I kept seeing references to Apple Gianduia on the WebObjects list. But as everyone was under NDA, they would never say exactly what it was. Bernard ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Apple developing Flash alternative
On 5/8/10 10:32 AM, Lynn Fredricks wrote: Apple developing Flash alternative named Gianduia http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/05/07/apple_developin g_flash_alternative_named_gianduia.html Isn't this just another javascript framework? As of 8 May at 10:49 AM that's true. But it's not like Apple has no experience making authoring tools, and it seems a slender leap to consider the possibility that they'll turn out an IDE for this within the coming months. I'd wager they do. To NOT do so would hamper their strategy. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Apple developing Flash alternative
Interesting. Very interesting. Richard, how long do you suppose until Apple bans web apps for the iPhone/iPad AppStore unless they are only made with their new tool? Chipp Walters CEO Shafer Walters Group, Inc President, Altuit, Inc On May 8, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote: As of 8 May at 10:49 AM that's true. But it's not like Apple has no experience making authoring tools, and it seems a slender leap to consider the possibility that they'll turn out an IDE for this within the coming months. I'd wager they do. To NOT do so would hamper their strategy. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
[OT] Apple developing Flash alternative
Apple developing Flash alternative named Gianduia http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/05/07/apple_developing_flash_alternative_named_gianduia.html -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Randall Lee Reetz rand...@randallreetz.comwrote: What is the base fear or desire the iphad satisfies? Surely apple won't always own the only product that will meet that need. Again you've hit the nail on the head. There is no base fear or desire that the iPad satisfies. Apple has never had the only product around, in fact far from it; there were PCs before the Mac, really cheap PCs before the iMac, mp3 players before the iPod, mobile phones before the iPhone, and tablet PCs before the iPad. Jobs just has an uncanny, some think unnatural, ability to persuade enough people (not everyone, not even the majority, in some cases a piddling insignificant percentage) that they need to open their wallet and outlay a premium on a device they don't need, that has functionality they didn't realise they couldn't live without. The ranking success of a company, the effectiveness of an entrepreneur, isn't measured by how stupid the consumer is, it's by how black the balance sheet is. Could Jobs make a mistake that could take Apple in to the red? Oh, absolutely. Within 1 quarter? Definitely. Could he turn all Howard Hughes? On the cards. Is he obnoxious? Undoudtedly. But IMO this current turmoil will not decline Apple's quarterly revenue, much less have a long term effect on their profitability. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Kay, The part you are missing in all of this is who Jon Stewart is and what he represents. He is seen by many as the single most powerful Progressive voice in the media. His calling out of Apple and Jobs in particular, has huge ramifications, of which I am sure concerns many inside Apple. Jon trades in the same hipness currency as Apple, GadgetBlog Writers and Privacy Advocates. Clearly you see Steve Jobs as a rock-star. We all need our heroes, and it's understandable. Many Apple users are enamored with Steve. He is truly a remarkable marketer and a one of a kind individual. Still, that does not make him infallible. He's had big wins, and big losses. Certainly no one could say NeXT was much of a win, nor was his refusal to create an 'Open Mac II' which cost him his first CEO job at Apple. iPods and iTunes were huge, as was OS X. PowerPC started big, but fizzled down the stretch. Certainly there are many here who believe him disingenuous when he said Hypercard wasn't dead-- then killed it. You're concerned Jon Stewart may be jealous. Actually, the message of the video is quite the opposite. Stewart comes out and says what a big Apple fan he is, and has been. He even says he's taking a big risk calling Jobs out because he knows how much his fanbase loves Apple. And that is why you don't understand at the end of the video where he still admits to wanting Apple products. Because he doesn't hate Apple. In fact, he really LIKES Apple. The point of it all, is for someone like Jon to call Apple, Appholes, clearly shows there IS a problem. On Monday, May 3, 2010, Kay C Lan lan.kc.macm...@gmail.com wrote: Whilst many may deify Michael Schumacher, Roger Federer, Tiger Woods, Lee Kwan Yew, Valentino Rossi, Lance Armstrong, Michael Phelps, Mozart, Leonardo da Vinci and even Bill Gates and Steve Jobs; there are also those who are deeply critical of them - most likely due to some deep-seeded jealousy. What that video confirmed to me, is no matter how much vitriol, hatred and disgust the presenter heaped upon Steve Jobs, no matter how logical or factual the arguments, no matter how enthusiastically the audience agreed with everything he said; for reasons I can not explain and certainly do not understand, in the dying seconds the presented admitted his lust for the next Apple product. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 11:21 PM, David Bovill david.bov...@gmail.comwrote: I think Steve Jobs underestimated developer reaction in the age of the internet and open source - he can't get away with the same sort of things quite as easily as companies could last century. I also doubt he will take very well to the sudden realization that he has turned from underdog fighting the cause of good design, to a one-man-band lock-in merchant in the eyes of quite so many young developers. RunRev needs all of this + the anti-trust threat to make sure revMobile on the iPhone does not fall out of this as collateral damage - the more pressure the more reason Apple will have to negotiate exceptions. Especially in Runrev can offer some technological features that are specific to the iPhone that CS5 does not offer? Google must be loving this. Let me start off by saying I very much hope that Rev will be able to do it's thing on the iPhone and iPad. I also believe that there could have been much more compromise or middle ground taken by Steve Jobs in the Flash decision. But, I don't know all the facts. I've read another thread here with interest about starting a RevStore and am bemused by comments about the HyperCard days and the overwhelming number of poor quality Apps, the enormous amount of manpower spent shifting through them, and the negative image those Apps created. Basically some have made a Steve Jobs like decision that a RevStore wouldn't be a good idea because so many poor quality Rev Apps would reflect poorly on the company. So to the article: In forcing computer programmers to choose developing an Apple-exclusive app over one that can be used on Apple and rival devices simultaneously, critics say Apple is hampering competition since the expense involved in creating an app will lead developers with limited budgets to focus on one format, not two. Sorry, but I thought that's exactly the environment the Mac has lived in since 1984. The vast majority of developers, not just limited budget developers, have always chosen to develop for one platform only. If this is an Anti-Trust issue now, why hasn't it been for the last 26 years? Shaun Meredith, a former Apple employee who runs software development company InfoBridge, said that as a result of Apple's rule change, some of his customers are choosing to finance apps that are compatible with all of Apple's competitors instead of those that work only with the iPhone or iPad. Sorry, people are now choosing to develop for Apple's competitors so this is the basis for an Anti-Trust inquiry because it's stifling competition? I clearly don't understand something here. Yes it is unfortunate that one option has been removed, but as far as I can tell it's a completely level playing field. If an iPhone Developer wants to port his App to a Android device, he'll be up against the exact same hurdles as an Android developer deciding to port to the iPhone. Indeed, though Apple has the most applications, it is a distant second in terms of operating system market share. According to comScore, RIM, which makes the BlackBerry, has a 42 percent share, while Apple's take is 25 percent. Microsoft has 15 percent and Google's Android software has 9 percent. Sorry, Jobs doesn't control 95% of the market share, he isn't even ranked No 1? There even seems to be more players and a more even spread of market share, than in the PC OS arena, so why is this a competition problem? At this point the only line of argument I can see is we think Steve Jobs has shot himself in the foot with this decision, a vast majority of developers will no longer develop for the iPhone, most Apps will be on other mobile phone systems, Apple will go bust, therefore there will be less competition To that I say, let it happen, let market forces play out, let capitalism do it's thing. If Steve wants to make his 'walled garden' experience, where everything is vetted by him, are made just so, and will never crash his iPhone; then let the market, the buying public decide if he's right. A while back I was chatting with a colleague, an avid Mac hater, Steve Jobs despiser and committed Nokia user. He'd just bought an iPhone. Why? Because on more than one occasion, during important business trips, his Nokia had frozen on him leaving him very out of contact and very embarrassed. He assumed it was due to one of the many Apps he had on the thing, but he couldn't be bothered figuring out which one, he just needed a phone that worked. Once America was great because it allowed greatness to be fed by capitalism. Now America wallows in mediocrity because bureaucracy decides which companies will survive under Chapter 11 protection, and which ones are too big to fail, and what the consumer gets, and oh, wait a minute, that's not capitalism. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Le 4 mai 2010 à 08:06, Kay C Lan a écrit : Jobs just has an uncanny, some think unnatural, ability to persuade enough people (not everyone, not even the majority, in some cases a piddling insignificant percentage) that they need to open their wallet and outlay a premium on a device they don't need, that has functionality they didn't realise they couldn't live without. I understand, I'm an idiot. Maybe, because when you're a fool you are often the last to realize. I had many Macintosh since 1984. I became interested in computers for professional use in 1979 and before 1984 I had seen anything very conclusive. I still, since then earned my living in part by the Macintosh. Sorry for the fans of Windows but the sight of a Windows gives me hives.Am I a morbid aesthetic? At the exit of SuperPaint I had with ResEdit, edit icon (awful to my taste) of the palette to use it. Some may find this complete idiot but I am attached to the form, which often (not always) is an expression of the substance. For the application on which I work I spent several days (I'm slow, no doubt) to create a mini and a small slider which unfortunately do not exist in RunRev. I am currently working to create many interface elements Macintosh missing (the list is long, I've made) to integrate with RunRev (my first contribution, Spinning Wheel is available online from Rev). I am interested in the adventure of the Macintosh is not a race to the consumer (having the last computer with the latest processor, the latest hard disk, etc..) Is the style! Perhaps it is because I am also an admirer of Gustave Flaubert who is both one of the greatest designers of the literature and a destroyer of human stupidity. Like him, I see no contradiction. I would add that for Gilles Deleuze's philosophy and style are two bulwarks against stupidity. Remember English is not my language (dont be too severe with it)... Bon souvenir de Paris [ville Ô combien remplie de chose inutiles...] [Oh how city filled with something useless this may be the reason why France is the first Macintosh market after de U.S ?!] René___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Ok, maybe the ipad path is a virtual machine that runs rev stacks that are encapsulated within an apple compliment shell? Rev could distribute an ipad runner app and or a wrapper app that sucks stacks into the iphad RevWrapper (with or without runner included). Is there such a thing as app assigned document in the iphad gestalt? -Original Message- From: Randall Lee Reetz rand...@randallreetz.com Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 10:17 PM To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue Really, there is no use of flash in the rev source or output? At all? Where did I get that idea? How are rev stacks exported as executables on the iphone ipad platform? If they are converted at some point to C source then it would be entirely possible to set up a publication service that allows rev users to submit stacks formatted for the iphad (conformed byte code) and shoot them through the apple blessed IDE / compiler. No? Am I smoking something? Seems do-able. Randall -Original Message- From: Colin Holgate co...@verizon.net Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 9:50 PM To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue On May 4, 2010, at 12:32 AM, Randall Lee Reetz rand...@randallreetz.com wrote: I always thought it was smart that rev tied into flash. Allowed a path onto the web. Xtalk and flash share some deep object and widget similarities. But I am a bit confused as to how rev and flash are integrated. Anyone point me to a doc or web page or tube video that explains rev's flash integration? Can you point to the message here that talked about Flash and Rev being integrated? The only connection between the two that I know of is that they are both victims of Apple changing the iPhone SDK agreement. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
Le 4 mai 2010 à 09:46, Kay C Lan a écrit : Sorry, people are now choosing to develop for Apple's competitors so this is the basis for an Anti-Trust inquiry because it's stifling competition? I clearly don't understand something here. Yes it is unfortunate that one option has been removed, but as far as I can tell it's a completely level playing field. If an iPhone Developer wants to port his App to a Android device, he'll be up against the exact same hurdles as an Android developer deciding to port to the iPhone. Yes, Kay, I think that ! This does not help my case but I think it's just... René___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 4:05 PM, René Micout rene.mic...@numericable.comwrote: I understand, I'm an idiot. Maybe, because when you're a fool you are often the last to realize. I had many Macintosh since 1984. No you're not, but then again maybe we both are. I too have owned many Macs, but only since '87, but all my brothers tell me I'm a fool ;-) I was speaking more generally, that IMO, the vast majority of current iPhone, iPad buyers do not do it because they've assessed their needs and looked at all the options and weighed the pro's and con's, but simply buy them because they 'are in', 'cool', 'hip', that's why they refer to it as an iPhad - a pun on the word fad, meaning - like yoyo fad, or a rubic's cube fad. Personally I don't think there are any fools on this List. The fact that they've arrived at this List suggest they've plowed through very many options, appreciate that there is more than one operating system out there, weighed the pro's and con's, and have concluded Rev is worthy tool for their toolbox. If they are fools, then so am I ;-) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Kay, It sounds like the part you are missing in all of this is who Jon Stewart is and what he represents. He is seen by many as the single most powerful Progressive voice in the media. His calling out of Apple and Jobs in particular, has huge ramifications, of which I am sure concerns many inside Apple. Jon trades in the same hipness currency as Apple and BMW's. You seem to confuse Jobs with a rock star, which is understandable. Many faithful Apple followers are so enamored. The fact is, he's a man. He makes big mistakes, and has huge wins. NeXT was a mistake, so was not wanting to create a Mac II. And most here think he was ingenuous when he lied about and and eventually killed Hypercard. iPods were a huge win as was MacOS X. PowerPC, while starting on an up note, ended up not so hot. The list goes on. The guy is, without a doubt, a marketing genius. Still doesn't make him infallible. Just because someone like Stewart calls him out, doesn't mean he's jealous. Far from it. Jon points out how big a fan he is and has been of Apple, but also points out some of the errors Apple is making these days. In fact at the end of the segment, even Jon recognizes how this might roll with his audience saying something about it being easier on his fans to show pictures of Muhammed in a bikini versus talk bad about Jobs. So, clearly he's a Steve Jobs fan. The whole point of this is, if someone like Jon Stewart calls Apple, Appholes, then things must be pretty bad. On Monday, May 3, 2010, Kay C Lan lan.kc.macm...@gmail.com wrote: Whilst many may deify Michael Schumacher, Roger Federer, Tiger Woods, Lee Kwan Yew, Valentino Rossi, Lance Armstrong, Michael Phelps, Mozart, Leonardo da Vinci and even Bill Gates and Steve Jobs; there are also those who are deeply critical of them - most likely due to some deep-seeded jealousy. What that video confirmed to me, is no matter how much vitriol, hatred and disgust the presenter heaped upon Steve Jobs, no matter how logical or factual the arguments, no matter how enthusiastically the audience agreed with everything he said; for reasons I can not explain and certainly do not understand, in the dying seconds the presented admitted his lust for the next Apple product. All I can conclude is, if one with such a wholly justifiable aversion to Steve's latest antics will still so obviously go on buying Apple products, then how much more so the sheep-like general consumer. [yourname here] + Apple + Flash, I should have asked, if you had $1M to invest right now, and could only invest in Apple or Adobe, who would you pick? PS Apple just announced it has sold 1 million iPads in 28 days PPS It took Apple almost 3 months to sell 1 million iPhones PPS Apple announces best non-holiday quarter ever, with revenues up 49 percent and profits up 90 percent PPPS Adobe stock dropped 2% after Steve Jobs' Thoughts on Flash S Adobe drop iPhone as corporate phone PS Adobe stock takes further hit after Microsoft announce IE9 will not support Flash [movies] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
The point of it all, is for someone like Jon to call Apple, Appholes, clearly shows there IS a problem. Am I the only one who has a problem with Jon Stewart tacitly condoning theft? Regards, Sarah ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Le 4 mai 2010 à 10:27, Kay C Lan a écrit : that's why they refer to it as an iPhad - a pun on the word fad, meaning - like yoyo fad, or a rubic's cube fad. Thank you for this explanation, because I was a little lost with this non-translatable word ! (I believe that was a type or spelling mistake !) If they are fools, then so am I ;-) Perhaps I am a morbid aesthetic and perhaps a morbid fetish I have my first 128 K Macintosh (1984) on a shelf above my new iMac (2009) !! ;-) René___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Chipp Walters ch...@chipp.com wrote: The whole point of this is, if someone like Jon Stewart calls Apple, Appholes, then things must be pretty bad. Wow, stereophonic reply. Certainly had me scratching my head there for a sec. Thanks for the pointer on Jon Stewart, personally had no clue who he was. Your comments on 'trades in the same hipness currency' is extremely valid. If anything will hurt Apple, certainly their hipness rating going down will effect the bottom line. Unfortunately there are at least two ways for hipness rating to go down. First is to become the in joke. The second is to make mediocre products. The first will be short lived if you continue to make 1st class products as discerning consumer will continue to recognise the product for what it is; the joke will fade. The second is inescapable if you continue to make mediocre products. Maybe I do consider Steve a rock star, because I generally like the music he plays ;-) But you are right, he's produced some flops. I've stated already that I'd have thought there would have been a more middle ground solution, but then I don't know all the facts - none of us do. I do know that I like the level of perfection Steve requires of his products. If, through bureaucratic intervention, Steve is forced to allow mediocrity, then regardless of what Jon Steward might joke about, the hipness factor will be permanently effected. I'd much rather see this resolved my market forces, rather than bureaucratic intervention, and I fully accept that Jon Stewart is part of market forces. I guess I don't understand why people feel that they should be free to dictate how Steve Jobs runs his company, yet Steve isn't free to dictate what standards are to be met to make the grade. PS. I do appreciate that it is extremely unlikely that Apple will be forced to pass every App ever submitted, no matter how stick man, kill barney, it might be. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Are things changing ? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703612804575222553091495816.html?mod=WSJEUROPE_hpp_LEFTTopWhatNews René___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Precision : read this in the article : Apple could try to head off trouble with antitrust enforcers by changing the terms of its developer agreement, one person familiar with the situation said. Le 4 mai 2010 à 11:17, René Micout a écrit : Are things changing ? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703612804575222553091495816.html?mod=WSJEUROPE_hpp_LEFTTopWhatNews René___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 5:10 PM, René Micout rene.mic...@numericable.comwrote: Perhaps I am a morbid aesthetic and perhaps a morbid fetish I have my first 128 K Macintosh (1984) on a shelf above my new iMac (2009) !! ;-) I'm definitely jealous. Mine was a 512K Enhanced. Long since given away. But each month I get to revel in OS 7.6.1 when I crank up the old Centris 650 + Laserwriter Select 300. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Le 4 mai 2010 à 11:41, Kay C Lan a écrit : On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 5:10 PM, René Micout rene.mic...@numericable.comwrote: Perhaps I am a morbid aesthetic and perhaps a morbid fetish I have my first 128 K Macintosh (1984) on a shelf above my new iMac (2009) !! ;-) I'm definitely jealous. Mine was a 512K Enhanced. Long since given away. But each month I get to revel in OS 7.6.1 when I crank up the old Centris 650 + Laserwriter Select 300. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Sorry for the double post. I tried first posting on my iPad, but the gMail client is still pretty flaky, and for some unknown reason, the Use-List keep rejecting any posts from the iPad's mail client. Steve's still got a few things to work out on this iPad. I ended up finally going downstairs and posting on my PC. On Tuesday, May 4, 2010, Kay C Lan lan.kc.macm...@gmail.com wrote: Wow, stereophonic reply. Certainly had me scratching my head there for a sec. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Definitively incomparable : IT IS TRUE !! How can one not be fetish after that ? The serial number of my first Mac 128 K is F5Ø128RM0001WP : The first number of my initials series... Le 4 mai 2010 à 11:41, Kay C Lan a écrit : On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 5:10 PM, René Micout rene.mic...@numericable.comwrote: Perhaps I am a morbid aesthetic and perhaps a morbid fetish I have my first 128 K Macintosh (1984) on a shelf above my new iMac (2009) !! ;-) I'm definitely jealous. Mine was a 512K Enhanced. Long since given away. But each month I get to revel in OS 7.6.1 when I crank up the old Centris 650 + Laserwriter Select 300. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
If an iPhone Developer wants to port his App to a Android device, he'll be up against the exact same hurdles as an Android developer deciding to port to the iPhone. My only real interest in this question is the implications for Rev and its future direction and in particular the implications for a Linux/Android version. But this is obviously false. There is no Android App Store which is the only vehicle for marketing your stuff. There is no non-disclosure agreement. There is no developer agreement. You can use any language you want. Multiple vendors can make Android hardware. Multiple carriers can supply them. Of course they are not up against the 'exact same hurdles'. The big hurdle in this case is an Apple policy hurdle. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Rep-Apples-actual-response-to-the-Flash-issue-tp2124023p2125255.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
Just a minor point on market share stats - of interest I think because of its relevance to developing on mobile platforms for this list: On 4 May 2010 08:46, Kay C Lan lan.kc.macm...@gmail.com wrote: Indeed, though Apple has the most applications, it is a distant second in terms of operating system market share. According to comScore, RIM, which makes the BlackBerry, has a 42 percent share, while Apple's take is 25 percent. Microsoft has 15 percent and Google's Android software has 9 percent. Sorry, Jobs doesn't control 95% of the market share, he isn't even ranked No 1? There even seems to be more players and a more even spread of market share, than in the PC OS arena, so why is this a competition problem? Richard and others have made this point - but I think the figures are misleading. From memory there are two figures that stick in my head - and it would be great to have them discussed, trashed or verified on this list :) First that 97% of mobile app revenues are on the iPhone - this one I find hard to believe, though I can also understand how this could be possible. I'll dig out the bookmark I have for that one if it proves to be controversial :) Second that 80% or there abouts of mobile phone web browsing of sites are from iPhone users - that one was from Mr Jobs KeyNote - but there could be some independent source somewhere - again I can understand why that may be the case - it is one thing having a phone that can send MMS or browse the web in theory, and another to get users actually to use the stuff, or better still actually pay for it (in terms of app or media purchases) - iPhone OS is leagues ahead of everyone at the moment on these fronts. The figures that indicate the real battle are the projected ones and the ones that refer to the (very) recent growth of Android - these are promising but not yet solid. -- And now for a - sorry I can't help this - this is way more fun than getting down to work - please skip if you feel otherwise. ... Apple has a good shot at cornering this market - that is establishing a de facto (and legally supported) monopoly, just as Microsoft did in the mid-80's (without the legal protection), and the real battle looks like between Android and iOS, one of them a fully open platform in which consumers and producers can freely operate in market terms and another - a closed market controlled by Apple. It is not a monopoly yet (because the market is young), but everyone is now much more sensitive to these issues and the tactics companies can play in network economies - and everyone is looking to the future here, and by the future we are talking a few years. Like a few others on this list I am now pretty convinced that the PC market is about to be dramatically overtaken by the new mobile market in terms of sales and new software developments. Apple and others will be quite happy to leave the desktop market to the web and to open source strategies - they simply will not be interested in closing this market - let Google have it. They (ie Apple and others) clearly want to dominate the mobile market in the way that Microsoft succeeded to with the 1990's desktop market. Regulators and commentators are now wise to those tricks and will kick up a fuss early if they see moves like this coming - there are a lot of people and governments who want to keep these new markets open, and global networked markets do not stay open by themselves - they can and have decayed into monopolies, and mathematical models clearly show this to be an inherent property of free markets in certain situations - we don't need a conspiracy theory to explain it. It is not unreasonable to view this as an early stage in the battle between two different types of mobile market place, one closed and dominated by a single proprietary player and the other open. I think regulators would only be doing their Job (pun intended) to take a closer look at this - better early than late given how long these things take to go through the courts and how fast this market is going to move. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
Like a few others on this list I am now pretty convinced that the PC market is about to be dramatically overtaken by the new mobile market in terms of sales and new software developments. Apple and others will be quite happy to leave the desktop market to the web and to open source strategies - they simply will not be interested in closing this market - let Google have it. They (ie Apple and others) clearly want to dominate the mobile market in the way that Microsoft succeeded to with the 1990's desktop market. I completely agree with this assessment. Regulators and commentators are now wise to those tricks and will kick up a fuss early if they see moves like this coming - there are a lot of people and governments who want to keep these new markets open, and global networked markets do not stay open by themselves - they can and have decayed into monopolies, and mathematical models clearly show this to be an inherent property of free markets in certain situations - we don't need a conspiracy theory to explain it. It is not unreasonable to view this as an early stage in the battle between two different types of mobile market place, one closed and dominated by a single proprietary player and the other open. I think regulators would only be doing their Job (pun intended) to take a closer look at this - better early than late given how long these things take to go through the courts and how fast this market is going to move. It is important to remember that there is nothing illegal about having a monopoly. But as Microsoft showed, it is possible to use the power that a monopoly gives, to perform illegal acts. This is a distinction that is ignored by most bloggers, but I would hope that the denizens of this list are more intelligent than that. Regards, Sarah ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
And what about that ? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703612804575222553091495816.html?mod=WSJEUROPE_hpp_LEFTTopWhatNews Particulary at the end of the article of the Wall Street Journal : Apple could try to head off trouble with antitrust enforcers by changing the terms of its developer agreement, one person familiar with the situation said. René Le 4 mai 2010 à 14:00, Sarah Reichelt a écrit : Like a few others on this list I am now pretty convinced that the PC market is about to be dramatically overtaken by the new mobile market in terms of sales and new software developments. Apple and others will be quite happy to leave the desktop market to the web and to open source strategies - they simply will not be interested in closing this market - let Google have it. They (ie Apple and others) clearly want to dominate the mobile market in the way that Microsoft succeeded to with the 1990's desktop market. I completely agree with this assessment. Regulators and commentators are now wise to those tricks and will kick up a fuss early if they see moves like this coming - there are a lot of people and governments who want to keep these new markets open, and global networked markets do not stay open by themselves - they can and have decayed into monopolies, and mathematical models clearly show this to be an inherent property of free markets in certain situations - we don't need a conspiracy theory to explain it. It is not unreasonable to view this as an early stage in the battle between two different types of mobile market place, one closed and dominated by a single proprietary player and the other open. I think regulators would only be doing their Job (pun intended) to take a closer look at this - better early than late given how long these things take to go through the courts and how fast this market is going to move. It is important to remember that there is nothing illegal about having a monopoly. But as Microsoft showed, it is possible to use the power that a monopoly gives, to perform illegal acts. This is a distinction that is ignored by most bloggers, but I would hope that the denizens of this list are more intelligent than that. Regards, Sarah ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Sarah Reichelt wrote: The point of it all, is for someone like Jon to call Apple, Appholes, clearly shows there IS a problem. Am I the only one who has a problem with Jon Stewart tacitly condoning theft? Maybe I'm too much of a Daily Show fan, but I didn't get that from the piece. It seemed to me he wasn't so much saying Gizmodo was right as he was questioning the need for the strongest possible response to it. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
Kay C Lan wrote: To that I say, let it happen, let market forces play out, let capitalism do it's thing. Amen. I can't help but wonder if underlying all of this may be that Steve Jobs doesn't have faith in Apple's ability to deliver an unquestionably superior experience. He writes about how multi-platforms apps -- such as the ones we Rev folks make for the desktop -- lower the quality of the user experience. If that were the case to any degree that mattered, people simply wouldn't buy our apps, and would instead choose a truly native alternative. But in practice I see two factors that support using a middleware engine like Rev: 1. The quality difference is not significant enough to matter to users. My Rev-based app got a 4.5-out-of-5 review at not just any mag, but MacWorld, where the reviewer, editorial director Jason Snell, knows a thing or two about Mac UI conventions. His review never mentioned that the text in my tab controls is one pixel lower than spec. Instead, he lauded its efficiency and ease of use. The language doesn't make the software, the developers does. You can make sloppy apps in Objective-C, and you can be diligent with Rev. 2. In many cases, our is the only Mac offering available. Many of the apps I make for my clients do not have Mac-native competitors. Instead, our competitors tell their Mac customers to run their Windows apps under Parallels or Bootcamp. Few Windows developers bother to port to Mac -- why double development costs only to gain an extra 10% market potential? If we weren't able to keep our costs down by using a single code base to deliver to all three platforms, we probably wouldn't deliver for OS X at all, since we make four to eight times as much money from our Windows customers. But thanks to cross-platform tools like Rev, it's affordable to deliver for the Mac audience, and even on our worst day our UX better conforms to the Mac HIG that running a Win app under emulation. :) If we were prevented from using Rev for OS X, OS X simply wouldn't have some software categories addressed at all. Today this may not seem relevant on the iPhone OS with its 200,000 apps, but over time I think it'll start to become noticeable, esp. in vertical categories such as those most Rev developers make. If Steve Jobs believes that Apple can deliver an unquestionably superior user experience, one that matters enough to drive sales, why not let cross-platform tools continue to address vertical needs for iPhone OS as they do for OS X? Is he afraid that he'll see on the iPhone what we've all been seeing on the desktop for years, that it really doesn't matter to end-users what language is used to make an app as long as it enhances their workflow? Is he afraid that Apple won't be able to offer sufficiently compelling differentiation unless he locks developers into making apps for iPhone OS exclusively by arbitrarily raising their development costs to the point that they have to choose between iPhone or the rest of the world? I agree with your statement: Let the market decide if Rev apps are worthwhile. One significant irony in all of this is that Apple already allows one universal scripting language to be used to make app bundles for iPhone OS, with access to the accelerometer, GPS, multitouch, and other features common among modern mobile devices: JavaScript, via WebKit. With JavaScript you can use a single code base to deliver apps to multiple mobile OSes, and you could even make them as ugly as you like, and they'll be fully compliant with the new license terms. If they allow that scripting language, why not also Rev? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
YES !! Le 4 mai 2010 à 16:56, Richard Gaskin a écrit : Kay C Lan wrote: To that I say, let it happen, let market forces play out, let capitalism do it's thing. Amen. I can't help but wonder if underlying all of this may be that Steve Jobs doesn't have faith in Apple's ability to deliver an unquestionably superior experience. He writes about how multi-platforms apps -- such as the ones we Rev folks make for the desktop -- lower the quality of the user experience. If that were the case to any degree that mattered, people simply wouldn't buy our apps, and would instead choose a truly native alternative. But in practice I see two factors that support using a middleware engine like Rev: 1. The quality difference is not significant enough to matter to users. My Rev-based app got a 4.5-out-of-5 review at not just any mag, but MacWorld, where the reviewer, editorial director Jason Snell, knows a thing or two about Mac UI conventions. His review never mentioned that the text in my tab controls is one pixel lower than spec. Instead, he lauded its efficiency and ease of use. The language doesn't make the software, the developers does. You can make sloppy apps in Objective-C, and you can be diligent with Rev. 2. In many cases, our is the only Mac offering available. Many of the apps I make for my clients do not have Mac-native competitors. Instead, our competitors tell their Mac customers to run their Windows apps under Parallels or Bootcamp. Few Windows developers bother to port to Mac -- why double development costs only to gain an extra 10% market potential? If we weren't able to keep our costs down by using a single code base to deliver to all three platforms, we probably wouldn't deliver for OS X at all, since we make four to eight times as much money from our Windows customers. But thanks to cross-platform tools like Rev, it's affordable to deliver for the Mac audience, and even on our worst day our UX better conforms to the Mac HIG that running a Win app under emulation. :) If we were prevented from using Rev for OS X, OS X simply wouldn't have some software categories addressed at all. Today this may not seem relevant on the iPhone OS with its 200,000 apps, but over time I think it'll start to become noticeable, esp. in vertical categories such as those most Rev developers make. If Steve Jobs believes that Apple can deliver an unquestionably superior user experience, one that matters enough to drive sales, why not let cross-platform tools continue to address vertical needs for iPhone OS as they do for OS X? Is he afraid that he'll see on the iPhone what we've all been seeing on the desktop for years, that it really doesn't matter to end-users what language is used to make an app as long as it enhances their workflow? Is he afraid that Apple won't be able to offer sufficiently compelling differentiation unless he locks developers into making apps for iPhone OS exclusively by arbitrarily raising their development costs to the point that they have to choose between iPhone or the rest of the world? I agree with your statement: Let the market decide if Rev apps are worthwhile. One significant irony in all of this is that Apple already allows one universal scripting language to be used to make app bundles for iPhone OS, with access to the accelerometer, GPS, multitouch, and other features common among modern mobile devices: JavaScript, via WebKit. With JavaScript you can use a single code base to deliver apps to multiple mobile OSes, and you could even make them as ugly as you like, and they'll be fully compliant with the new license terms. If they allow that scripting language, why not also Rev? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
Richard, Did you catch the misleading use of logic in Steve's anti-Flash explanation? He outlined a scenario whereby third-party developers would become dependent on Flash, thereby causing problems when Apple innovated faster than Adobe. But think it through. The only reason that third-party developers would become dependent on Flash would be if they could sell enough of their products to make it worthwhile. That dependency only means that people want to buy products made with Flash (or RunRev). If it were true that the products where somehow inferior then the consumers would figure it out and the developers would soon switch over also. So the quality protection explanation is completely bogus. (Which you already know I'm sure). Mike --- On Tue, 5/4/10, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote: From: Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com Subject: Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue) To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010, 9:56 AM Kay C Lan wrote: To that I say, let it happen, let market forces play out, let capitalism do it's thing. Amen. I can't help but wonder if underlying all of this may be that Steve Jobs doesn't have faith in Apple's ability to deliver an unquestionably superior experience. He writes about how multi-platforms apps -- such as the ones we Rev folks make for the desktop -- lower the quality of the user experience. If that were the case to any degree that mattered, people simply wouldn't buy our apps, and would instead choose a truly native alternative. But in practice I see two factors that support using a middleware engine like Rev: 1. The quality difference is not significant enough to matter to users. My Rev-based app got a 4.5-out-of-5 review at not just any mag, but MacWorld, where the reviewer, editorial director Jason Snell, knows a thing or two about Mac UI conventions. His review never mentioned that the text in my tab controls is one pixel lower than spec. Instead, he lauded its efficiency and ease of use. The language doesn't make the software, the developers does. You can make sloppy apps in Objective-C, and you can be diligent with Rev. 2. In many cases, our is the only Mac offering available. Many of the apps I make for my clients do not have Mac-native competitors. Instead, our competitors tell their Mac customers to run their Windows apps under Parallels or Bootcamp. Few Windows developers bother to port to Mac -- why double development costs only to gain an extra 10% market potential? If we weren't able to keep our costs down by using a single code base to deliver to all three platforms, we probably wouldn't deliver for OS X at all, since we make four to eight times as much money from our Windows customers. But thanks to cross-platform tools like Rev, it's affordable to deliver for the Mac audience, and even on our worst day our UX better conforms to the Mac HIG that running a Win app under emulation. :) If we were prevented from using Rev for OS X, OS X simply wouldn't have some software categories addressed at all. Today this may not seem relevant on the iPhone OS with its 200,000 apps, but over time I think it'll start to become noticeable, esp. in vertical categories such as those most Rev developers make. If Steve Jobs believes that Apple can deliver an unquestionably superior user experience, one that matters enough to drive sales, why not let cross-platform tools continue to address vertical needs for iPhone OS as they do for OS X? Is he afraid that he'll see on the iPhone what we've all been seeing on the desktop for years, that it really doesn't matter to end-users what language is used to make an app as long as it enhances their workflow? Is he afraid that Apple won't be able to offer sufficiently compelling differentiation unless he locks developers into making apps for iPhone OS exclusively by arbitrarily raising their development costs to the point that they have to choose between iPhone or the rest of the world? I agree with your statement: Let the market decide if Rev apps are worthwhile. One significant irony in all of this is that Apple already allows one universal scripting language to be used to make app bundles for iPhone OS, with access to the accelerometer, GPS, multitouch, and other features common among modern mobile devices: JavaScript, via WebKit. With JavaScript you can use a single code base to deliver apps to multiple mobile OSes, and you could even make them as ugly as you like, and they'll be fully compliant with the new license terms. If they allow that scripting language, why not also Rev? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
Well put, Richard. Let's hope that Apple has a change of mind on this one. Marty Knapp Kay C Lan wrote: To that I say, let it happen, let market forces play out, let capitalism do it's thing. Amen. I can't help but wonder if underlying all of this may be that Steve Jobs doesn't have faith in Apple's ability to deliver an unquestionably superior experience. He writes about how multi-platforms apps -- such as the ones we Rev folks make for the desktop -- lower the quality of the user experience. If that were the case to any degree that mattered, people simply wouldn't buy our apps, and would instead choose a truly native alternative. But in practice I see two factors that support using a middleware engine like Rev: 1. The quality difference is not significant enough to matter to users. My Rev-based app got a 4.5-out-of-5 review at not just any mag, but MacWorld, where the reviewer, editorial director Jason Snell, knows a thing or two about Mac UI conventions. His review never mentioned that the text in my tab controls is one pixel lower than spec. Instead, he lauded its efficiency and ease of use. The language doesn't make the software, the developers does. You can make sloppy apps in Objective-C, and you can be diligent with Rev. 2. In many cases, our is the only Mac offering available. Many of the apps I make for my clients do not have Mac-native competitors. Instead, our competitors tell their Mac customers to run their Windows apps under Parallels or Bootcamp. Few Windows developers bother to port to Mac -- why double development costs only to gain an extra 10% market potential? If we weren't able to keep our costs down by using a single code base to deliver to all three platforms, we probably wouldn't deliver for OS X at all, since we make four to eight times as much money from our Windows customers. But thanks to cross-platform tools like Rev, it's affordable to deliver for the Mac audience, and even on our worst day our UX better conforms to the Mac HIG that running a Win app under emulation. :) If we were prevented from using Rev for OS X, OS X simply wouldn't have some software categories addressed at all. Today this may not seem relevant on the iPhone OS with its 200,000 apps, but over time I think it'll start to become noticeable, esp. in vertical categories such as those most Rev developers make. If Steve Jobs believes that Apple can deliver an unquestionably superior user experience, one that matters enough to drive sales, why not let cross-platform tools continue to address vertical needs for iPhone OS as they do for OS X? Is he afraid that he'll see on the iPhone what we've all been seeing on the desktop for years, that it really doesn't matter to end-users what language is used to make an app as long as it enhances their workflow? Is he afraid that Apple won't be able to offer sufficiently compelling differentiation unless he locks developers into making apps for iPhone OS exclusively by arbitrarily raising their development costs to the point that they have to choose between iPhone or the rest of the world? I agree with your statement: Let the market decide if Rev apps are worthwhile. One significant irony in all of this is that Apple already allows one universal scripting language to be used to make app bundles for iPhone OS, with access to the accelerometer, GPS, multitouch, and other features common among modern mobile devices: JavaScript, via WebKit. With JavaScript you can use a single code base to deliver apps to multiple mobile OSes, and you could even make them as ugly as you like, and they'll be fully compliant with the new license terms. If they allow that scripting language, why not also Rev? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 2:46 AM, Kay C Lan lan.kc.macm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 11:21 PM, David Bovill david.bov...@gmail.com wrote: So to the article: In forcing computer programmers to choose developing an Apple-exclusive app over one that can be used on Apple and rival devices simultaneously, critics say Apple is hampering competition since the expense involved in creating an app will lead developers with limited budgets to focus on one format, not two. Sorry, but I thought that's exactly the environment the Mac has lived in since 1984. The vast majority of developers, not just limited budget developers, have always chosen to develop for one platform only. If this is an Anti-Trust issue now, why hasn't it been for the last 26 years? http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution I may have a unique perspective here given what I do for my job. So, if others might permit, I'm going to take the Apple situation and relate it to a situation I'm very close to... In the console video game world, let's say you want to make a Nintendo Wii game. Here's how this works: - You apply for a Nintendo license and pay some money. And almost always you'll pay more money for development hardware to test on. - You download Nintendo SDKs and program your game. Note, however, that you aren't *required* to use Nintendo's SDKs, and you could program your game in Lisp or Lua if you felt like it. The SDKs are just there to help if you want them. - Once your game is done, you submit it to Nintendo and they do what they call lot check (Sony calls it TRCs and MSFT calls it TCRs). This is their run at the program to ensure it doesn't crash, and doesn't prevent the user from using the features of the console, among other things. - After your game passes submission, you press the discs, box it, and stick it on store shelves... in whatever stores will purchase your game because they think they can sell it through to the final customer. - Each copy of your game that sells pays license fees to Nintendo. Now, let's compare this to Apple and talk about why Apple is bordering on Anti-Trust and Nintendo (and Sony/MSFT) is not. - Apple requires you to be a registered developer and it helps to buy target hardware. That's fine. - However, Apple also *requires* you to use their SDK. What makes that worse is due to how their SDK is put together, it's nearly impossible to use their SDK on a non-Mac OS X system. And because of how OS X is built, it doesn't run on non-Apple hardware. So, now you're locked into purchasing more Apple hardware just to program your app that has nothing to do with your target platform. - Once you application is complete, you only have a single point for distribution: the App Store. You can't sell it through Wal*Mart or Target or via some online site like Amazon. And the only legal way for the customer to install an app on their iP*d is to download it through the App Store. So, summarizing: - You are forced to purchase addition Apple hardware. - You are forced to distribute through Apple. Bottom line: no competition throughout the entire life-cycle of the final product. Jeff M. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
Their argument on Javascript will be: 1. its ubiquitous (unlike Flash which is supposedly only on 98% of all PCs) 2. since you can only run Apple's browser and they wrote webkit, they can control what you do with javascript 3. since Jobs mentioned that xx percent of reboots due to software under OS X were caused by Flash, so it reflects on the Apple brand that the stability of their software is poor. Adobe of course will say that its Apple's fault they are not compatible with Flash since its on 98% of all computers and Apple only has 9%. Neal Campbell Abroham Neal Software www.abrohamnealsoftware.com (540) 645 5394 NEW PHONE NUMBER Amateur Radio: K3NC Blog: http://www.abrohamnealsoftware.com/blog/ DXBase bug reports: email to ca...@dxbase.fogbugz.com Abroham Neal forums: http:/www.abrohamnealsoftware.com/community/ On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.comwrote: Kay C Lan wrote: To that I say, let it happen, let market forces play out, let capitalism do it's thing. Amen. I can't help but wonder if underlying all of this may be that Steve Jobs doesn't have faith in Apple's ability to deliver an unquestionably superior experience. He writes about how multi-platforms apps -- such as the ones we Rev folks make for the desktop -- lower the quality of the user experience. If that were the case to any degree that mattered, people simply wouldn't buy our apps, and would instead choose a truly native alternative. But in practice I see two factors that support using a middleware engine like Rev: 1. The quality difference is not significant enough to matter to users. My Rev-based app got a 4.5-out-of-5 review at not just any mag, but MacWorld, where the reviewer, editorial director Jason Snell, knows a thing or two about Mac UI conventions. His review never mentioned that the text in my tab controls is one pixel lower than spec. Instead, he lauded its efficiency and ease of use. The language doesn't make the software, the developers does. You can make sloppy apps in Objective-C, and you can be diligent with Rev. 2. In many cases, our is the only Mac offering available. Many of the apps I make for my clients do not have Mac-native competitors. Instead, our competitors tell their Mac customers to run their Windows apps under Parallels or Bootcamp. Few Windows developers bother to port to Mac -- why double development costs only to gain an extra 10% market potential? If we weren't able to keep our costs down by using a single code base to deliver to all three platforms, we probably wouldn't deliver for OS X at all, since we make four to eight times as much money from our Windows customers. But thanks to cross-platform tools like Rev, it's affordable to deliver for the Mac audience, and even on our worst day our UX better conforms to the Mac HIG that running a Win app under emulation. :) If we were prevented from using Rev for OS X, OS X simply wouldn't have some software categories addressed at all. Today this may not seem relevant on the iPhone OS with its 200,000 apps, but over time I think it'll start to become noticeable, esp. in vertical categories such as those most Rev developers make. If Steve Jobs believes that Apple can deliver an unquestionably superior user experience, one that matters enough to drive sales, why not let cross-platform tools continue to address vertical needs for iPhone OS as they do for OS X? Is he afraid that he'll see on the iPhone what we've all been seeing on the desktop for years, that it really doesn't matter to end-users what language is used to make an app as long as it enhances their workflow? Is he afraid that Apple won't be able to offer sufficiently compelling differentiation unless he locks developers into making apps for iPhone OS exclusively by arbitrarily raising their development costs to the point that they have to choose between iPhone or the rest of the world? I agree with your statement: Let the market decide if Rev apps are worthwhile. One significant irony in all of this is that Apple already allows one universal scripting language to be used to make app bundles for iPhone OS, with access to the accelerometer, GPS, multitouch, and other features common among modern mobile devices: JavaScript, via WebKit. With JavaScript you can use a single code base to deliver apps to multiple mobile OSes, and you could even make them as ugly as you like, and they'll be fully compliant with the new license terms. If they allow that scripting language, why not also Rev? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit
Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
Hi Jeff But what happens if MSFT or Nintendo reject your app. They hold the same power of rejection that Apple does, only with apple you have bought aa extra computer. They would also contend that since there is a healthy resale market, you can buy a used apple that they do not gain a nickle from if you purchase from a refurbisher. Not defending them because I want 3.3.1 redone just like everyone on the list but it helps to think like the opposition in these matters. But, in reality, Jobs is trying to invent reasons why they don't want Adobe in their market and it doesn't matter whether its rational or true. The SEC inquiry is exactly what we needed! Maybe its not a shame that MSFT has become the large unwieldy corporation that it has become since it also means their go for the throat mentality has been subdued! Apple has always been then same, only made much better products (they lead rather than imitate) which probably makes them even more sanguine. Plus, Jobs believes he is smarter than anyone else so the feedback loop that curbs some of these tendencies has been chopped off. Neal Campbell Abroham Neal Software www.abrohamnealsoftware.com (540) 645 5394 NEW PHONE NUMBER Amateur Radio: K3NC Blog: http://www.abrohamnealsoftware.com/blog/ DXBase bug reports: email to ca...@dxbase.fogbugz.com Abroham Neal forums: http:/www.abrohamnealsoftware.com/community/ On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 11:20 AM, Jeff Massung mass...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 2:46 AM, Kay C Lan lan.kc.macm...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 11:21 PM, David Bovill david.bov...@gmail.com wrote: So to the article: In forcing computer programmers to choose developing an Apple-exclusive app over one that can be used on Apple and rival devices simultaneously, critics say Apple is hampering competition since the expense involved in creating an app will lead developers with limited budgets to focus on one format, not two. Sorry, but I thought that's exactly the environment the Mac has lived in since 1984. The vast majority of developers, not just limited budget developers, have always chosen to develop for one platform only. If this is an Anti-Trust issue now, why hasn't it been for the last 26 years? http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution I may have a unique perspective here given what I do for my job. So, if others might permit, I'm going to take the Apple situation and relate it to a situation I'm very close to... In the console video game world, let's say you want to make a Nintendo Wii game. Here's how this works: - You apply for a Nintendo license and pay some money. And almost always you'll pay more money for development hardware to test on. - You download Nintendo SDKs and program your game. Note, however, that you aren't *required* to use Nintendo's SDKs, and you could program your game in Lisp or Lua if you felt like it. The SDKs are just there to help if you want them. - Once your game is done, you submit it to Nintendo and they do what they call lot check (Sony calls it TRCs and MSFT calls it TCRs). This is their run at the program to ensure it doesn't crash, and doesn't prevent the user from using the features of the console, among other things. - After your game passes submission, you press the discs, box it, and stick it on store shelves... in whatever stores will purchase your game because they think they can sell it through to the final customer. - Each copy of your game that sells pays license fees to Nintendo. Now, let's compare this to Apple and talk about why Apple is bordering on Anti-Trust and Nintendo (and Sony/MSFT) is not. - Apple requires you to be a registered developer and it helps to buy target hardware. That's fine. - However, Apple also *requires* you to use their SDK. What makes that worse is due to how their SDK is put together, it's nearly impossible to use their SDK on a non-Mac OS X system. And because of how OS X is built, it doesn't run on non-Apple hardware. So, now you're locked into purchasing more Apple hardware just to program your app that has nothing to do with your target platform. - Once you application is complete, you only have a single point for distribution: the App Store. You can't sell it through Wal*Mart or Target or via some online site like Amazon. And the only legal way for the customer to install an app on their iP*d is to download it through the App Store. So, summarizing: - You are forced to purchase addition Apple hardware. - You are forced to distribute through Apple. Bottom line: no competition throughout the entire life-cycle of the final product. Jeff M. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
No you're not. Best, Jerry Daniels Use tRev's buy link during your free trial to get 20% off: http://reveditor.com/tag/shouldiswitch On May 4, 2010, at 3:28 AM, Sarah Reichelt sarah.reich...@gmail.com wrote: The point of it all, is for someone like Jon to call Apple, Appholes, clearly shows there IS a problem. Am I the only one who has a problem with Jon Stewart tacitly condoning theft? Regards, Sarah ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
So, summarizing: - You are forced to purchase addition Apple hardware. - You are forced to distribute through Apple. Bottom line: no competition throughout the entire life-cycle of the final product. At least you don't have to buy cartridges from Nintendo any more. That's was a killer when I was involved in the console market back in the early 90s. I agree with where you are coming from on this. End-to-end, every portion is controlled. If you re-read Thoughts on Flash, you can see that SJ views the mobile market as a next market after the PC; its clear what the goal is. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Neal Campbell nealk...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jeff But what happens if MSFT or Nintendo reject your app. They hold the same power of rejection that Apple does, Not true. The idea of reject isn't quite the same in the console context as it is for Apple and the App Store. To simplify this greatly, Nintendo or MSFT actually agrees to your app long before you ever get to the submission process. This is the process of acquiring a title ID for your application. Some publishers do it late in the process and others do it very early - even before they enter into production. Once you have a title ID, your game has been accepted. It should be noted that the only times I've ever seen an app get rejected at this stage is if it goes way beyond what the console wants to be equated with in the public eye. For example, making a pornography game on the Nintendo likely wouldn't get a title ID. The submission process is very different from getting a title ID. This is nothing more than a glorified QA. It's when the console maker ensures that you handle crazy situations: player removes the DVD while the game is running, unplugs a controller, turns off the console during a save, leaves the game running for days on end to test for memory fragmentation/leaks, etc. Your game may be rejected at this stage, but only is as much as you fix the bugs and resubmit. Once the bugs are gone, you're gold. Jeff M. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
David Bovill wrote: Richard and others have made this point - but I think the figures are misleading. From memory there are two figures that stick in my head - and it would be great to have them discussed, trashed or verified on this list :) First that 97% of mobile app revenues are on the iPhone - this one I find hard to believe, though I can also understand how this could be possible. I'll dig out the bookmark I have for that one if it proves to be controversial :) Second that 80% or there abouts of mobile phone web browsing of sites are from iPhone users - that one was from Mr Jobs KeyNote - but there could be some independent source somewhere - again I can understand why that may be the case - it is one thing having a phone that can send MMS or browse the web in theory, and another to get users actually to use the stuff, or better still actually pay for it (in terms of app or media purchases) - iPhone OS is leagues ahead of everyone at the moment on these fronts. The figures that indicate the real battle are the projected ones and the ones that refer to the (very) recent growth of Android - these are promising but not yet solid. Yet. So much hinges on those three letters. I don't think the market share stats I quoted from Computerworld/WSJ are any more or less misleading that others (for those that missed it they're here: http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2010/02/01/iphone-loses-market-share-in-fourth-quarter/). Stats are both rewarding and challenging because the different methodologies used provide different views into the data. And like any study of macroeconomics, there will always be disagreement about what they mean. :) Given the variety of projected outcomes from these various methodologies, from iPhone will rule the world! to Gartner's suggestion that iPhone OS will be overtaken by Android in under 24 months (see http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9139026/Android_to_grab_No._2_spot_by_2012_says_Gartner), I think it's prudent to take them all into consideration. It's true that the Apple audience in general, and particularly the subset of that audience that are early adopters of new technologies, tend to spend more on related third-party products like apps. Being a sort of boutique vendor with high margins and focusing on quality over affordability, Apple has a solid niche that has earned it tens of billions in retained earnings, even with its 10% desktop share and 24% mobile share. Consistent with this, while Apple has a 10% share on the desktop most of our products make 25% of their revenue from Mac sales, two and half times greater per capita than we get from the Win market. But that is per capita. As more capita come on board, the totals change dramatically. Not everyone drives a Volvo, but everyone needs tires. So for us app developers, another useful metric is app revenue. But even here we see some variance when it comes to determining what these numbers mean. Consider this attention-grabbing headline: Estimate: Top 1000 iPad apps making $372k a day http://www.tuaw.com/2010/04/21/estimate-top-1000-ipad-apps-making-372k-a-day/ That sounds like a gold mine! Well, kinda. If you examine the underlying math, it paints a picture we could politely call mixed. The crux of the numbers comes down to this portion of the article: By their reasoning, the top paid app in the store sells about 5k copies per day, with the number two app selling about 3k, the number three app about 2.5k, and so on. Vimov estimates that everyone in the top 100 list, when you add them all together, is making about US$304,058 on any given day. The shelf drops off from there -- in the top 1000, developers are making about $372,000, and past that, they're obviously making less. If I read that right, here's the breakdown: The top 100 are collectively making $304k/day and the top 1000 are making $372k/day, which means that those who are in the top 1000 but below the top 100 (the lower 900) are collectively making only $68k. Split that among 900 apps and that's $75.50 per app per day. And then there are the other 180,000 apps. With the top 100 collectively making $304k and the next 900 making $68k, at that dropoff rate we can expect the second best-selling 1000 apps in the AppStore to make about $17k split among them all, and the third best-selling 1000 to make about 4k. Then it goes down from there for the other 150,000 apps, ranging from $4 per day per app down to zero. Meanwhile, the current minimum wage in California is $8/hr. In an eight-hour day a worker with very few skills can make $64. :) So while an Apple advocate could say iPhone OS deployment will make you rich!, a naysayer could say, You can make more money flipping burgers. :) Same math, different perspectives. While the iPhone OS is attractive to me and my clients, as is Android and the rest of the mobile market, I have to acknowledge that my desktop apps --
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
I still have my working SE-30, which still has big screen capability, 10Base-T Ethernet, and an accelerator. Last use was to be an SMTP and FTP server - worked well. I'm keeping that unit, but am giving my other Mac history items away - any luddites in SF call me before they become e-waste. I have an 9600, 8100, and 7100, a cube, and an iMac. On 4 May 2010 02:53, René Micout rene.mic...@numericable.com wrote: Definitively incomparable : IT IS TRUE !! How can one not be fetish after that ? The serial number of my first Mac 128 K is F5Ø128RM0001WP : The first number of my initials series... Le 4 mai 2010 à 11:41, Kay C Lan a écrit : On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 5:10 PM, René Micout rene.mic...@numericable.com wrote: Perhaps I am a morbid aesthetic and perhaps a morbid fetish I have my first 128 K Macintosh (1984) on a shelf above my new iMac (2009) !! ;-) I'm definitely jealous. Mine was a 512K Enhanced. Long since given away. But each month I get to revel in OS 7.6.1 when I crank up the old Centris 650 + Laserwriter Select 300. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- - Stephen Barncard Back home in SF ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
Wow, I completely disagree. Apps aren't apples. Apps are apples and oranges and anteaters. The basis of your argument is that materials have more to do with desire than the finished product. That would be akin to art historians only comparing art by the paint used. That steve jobs is up to something bigger than his words imply is obvious. There was a time when he had a conscience (in the person of the Woz). There was a time when Jobs espoused absolute openness (even all board meetings and payroll was open to all employees at next). But I do think that all of this has to do with a fed up reaction to the north korea of software houses: adobe. It is just too bad he didn't come right out and say it... -Original Message- From: Michael Kann mikek...@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 8:06 AM To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue) Richard, Did you catch the misleading use of logic in Steve's anti-Flash explanation? He outlined a scenario whereby third-party developers would become dependent on Flash, thereby causing problems when Apple innovated faster than Adobe. But think it through. The only reason that third-party developers would become dependent on Flash would be if they could sell enough of their products to make it worthwhile. That dependency only means that people want to buy products made with Flash (or RunRev). If it were true that the products where somehow inferior then the consumers would figure it out and the developers would soon switch over also. So the quality protection explanation is completely bogus. (Which you already know I'm sure). Mike --- On Tue, 5/4/10, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote: From: Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com Subject: Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue) To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010, 9:56 AM Kay C Lan wrote: To that I say, let it happen, let market forces play out, let capitalism do it's thing. Amen. I can't help but wonder if underlying all of this may be that Steve Jobs doesn't have faith in Apple's ability to deliver an unquestionably superior experience. He writes about how multi-platforms apps -- such as the ones we Rev folks make for the desktop -- lower the quality of the user experience. If that were the case to any degree that mattered, people simply wouldn't buy our apps, and would instead choose a truly native alternative. But in practice I see two factors that support using a middleware engine like Rev: 1. The quality difference is not significant enough to matter to users. My Rev-based app got a 4.5-out-of-5 review at not just any mag, but MacWorld, where the reviewer, editorial director Jason Snell, knows a thing or two about Mac UI conventions. His review never mentioned that the text in my tab controls is one pixel lower than spec. Instead, he lauded its efficiency and ease of use. The language doesn't make the software, the developers does. You can make sloppy apps in Objective-C, and you can be diligent with Rev. 2. In many cases, our is the only Mac offering available. Many of the apps I make for my clients do not have Mac-native competitors. Instead, our competitors tell their Mac customers to run their Windows apps under Parallels or Bootcamp. Few Windows developers bother to port to Mac -- why double development costs only to gain an extra 10% market potential? If we weren't able to keep our costs down by using a single code base to deliver to all three platforms, we probably wouldn't deliver for OS X at all, since we make four to eight times as much money from our Windows customers. But thanks to cross-platform tools like Rev, it's affordable to deliver for the Mac audience, and even on our worst day our UX better conforms to the Mac HIG that running a Win app under emulation. :) If we were prevented from using Rev for OS X, OS X simply wouldn't have some software categories addressed at all. Today this may not seem relevant on the iPhone OS with its 200,000 apps, but over time I think it'll start to become noticeable, esp. in vertical categories such as those most Rev developers make. If Steve Jobs believes that Apple can deliver an unquestionably superior user experience, one that matters enough to drive sales, why not let cross-platform tools continue to address vertical needs for iPhone OS as they do for OS X? Is he afraid that he'll see on the iPhone what we've all been seeing on the desktop for years, that it really doesn't matter to end-users what language is used to make an app as long as it enhances their workflow? Is he afraid that Apple won't be able to offer sufficiently
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
I have also a SE30, II FX and all my portables (Mac Portable, PB170, PB9400, PB G3 (black), PB Titanium, PB G4 12) All the others have been recycled... snif... :-( I only keep the Mac on which I worked Le 4 mai 2010 à 18:35, stephen barncard a écrit : I still have my working SE-30, which still has big screen capability, 10Base-T Ethernet, and an accelerator. Last use was to be an SMTP and FTP server - worked well. I'm keeping that unit, but am giving my other Mac history items away - any luddites in SF call me before they become e-waste. I have an 9600, 8100, and 7100, a cube, and an iMac. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
I have a client that sometimes works for lawyers as an expert witness doing economic loss analysis. I think he charges $300 an hour. And he does all his calculations on a 1985 SE/30 running Excel 2.0. I put its second hard drive in about 5 years ago and recently swapped out the motherboard as it was starting to act a little flaky. Not bad for a 25 year old computer. Marty Knapp I still have my working SE-30, which still has big screen capability, 10Base-T Ethernet, and an accelerator. Last use was to be an SMTP and FTP server - worked well. I'm keeping that unit, but am giving my other Mac history items away - any luddites in SF call me before they become e-waste. I have an 9600, 8100, and 7100, a cube, and an iMac. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Marty, ironic profession and specialty for your client to have given the context of this thread (more like a rug than a thread)! Best, Jerry Daniels Use tRev's buy link during your free trial to get 20% off: http://reveditor.com/tag/shouldiswitch On May 4, 2010, at 11:55 AM, Marty Knapp martykn...@comcast.net wrote: I have a client that sometimes works for lawyers as an expert witness doing economic loss analysis. I think he charges $300 an hour. And he does all his calculations on a 1985 SE/30 running Excel 2.0. I put its second hard drive in about 5 years ago and recently swapped out the motherboard as it was starting to act a little flaky. Not bad for a 25 year old computer. Marty Knapp I still have my working SE-30, which still has big screen capability, 10Base-T Ethernet, and an accelerator. Last use was to be an SMTP and FTP server - worked well. I'm keeping that unit, but am giving my other Mac history items away - any luddites in SF call me before they become e-waste. I have an 9600, 8100, and 7100, a cube, and an iMac. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
What everyone here seems to forget is that flash finally took vector graphics powered by very tightly packed and efficiently executed byte code to a web that choked up by static bit maps. It was long overdue. Problem is that it never belonged at the plugin level. Now steve is trying to right this architectural wrong, but from the same messed up closed system protectionist motivation that drove macromedia to make the same mistake. Infrastructure is infrastructure. It serves no one to build a private interstate highway system. haven't we learned this yet? I am all for antitrust laws but only when those writing and enforcing them understand them at a deeper level than simple market competition. Obama is a smart guy. He is appointing smart prosecutors and judges and giving them the right mandates. Something of merit will come of this standoff and what motivates it. But I do remember the ridiculous apple antitrust suit against microsoft. Who built the windows mouse metaphor... xerox. The truth has a way of bubbling up. What bothers me is how willing the public is to forgive (even become apologists for) criminal or short sighted minds when those minds get rich being better at being wrong than I am. What color is the money you make? -Original Message- From: Randall Lee Reetz rand...@randallreetz.com Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 9:44 AM To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: RE: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue) Wow, I completely disagree. Apps aren't apples. Apps are apples and oranges and anteaters. The basis of your argument is that materials have more to do with desire than the finished product. That would be akin to art historians only comparing art by the paint used. That steve jobs is up to something bigger than his words imply is obvious. There was a time when he had a conscience (in the person of the Woz). There was a time when Jobs espoused absolute openness (even all board meetings and payroll was open to all employees at next). But I do think that all of this has to do with a fed up reaction to the north korea of software houses: adobe. It is just too bad he didn't come right out and say it... -Original Message- From: Michael Kann mikek...@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 8:06 AM To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue) Richard, Did you catch the misleading use of logic in Steve's anti-Flash explanation? He outlined a scenario whereby third-party developers would become dependent on Flash, thereby causing problems when Apple innovated faster than Adobe. But think it through. The only reason that third-party developers would become dependent on Flash would be if they could sell enough of their products to make it worthwhile. That dependency only means that people want to buy products made with Flash (or RunRev). If it were true that the products where somehow inferior then the consumers would figure it out and the developers would soon switch over also. So the quality protection explanation is completely bogus. (Which you already know I'm sure). Mike --- On Tue, 5/4/10, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote: From: Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com Subject: Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue) To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010, 9:56 AM Kay C Lan wrote: To that I say, let it happen, let market forces play out, let capitalism do it's thing. Amen. I can't help but wonder if underlying all of this may be that Steve Jobs doesn't have faith in Apple's ability to deliver an unquestionably superior experience. He writes about how multi-platforms apps -- such as the ones we Rev folks make for the desktop -- lower the quality of the user experience. If that were the case to any degree that mattered, people simply wouldn't buy our apps, and would instead choose a truly native alternative. But in practice I see two factors that support using a middleware engine like Rev: 1. The quality difference is not significant enough to matter to users. My Rev-based app got a 4.5-out-of-5 review at not just any mag, but MacWorld, where the reviewer, editorial director Jason Snell, knows a thing or two about Mac UI conventions. His review never mentioned that the text in my tab controls is one pixel lower than spec. Instead, he lauded its efficiency and ease of use. The language doesn't make the software, the developers does. You can make sloppy apps in Objective-C, and you can be diligent with Rev. 2. In many cases, our is the only Mac offering available. Many of the apps I make for my clients do not have Mac-native competitors. Instead, our competitors tell their Mac customers
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 04/05/2010 19:44, René Micout wrote: I have also a SE30, II FX and all my portables (Mac Portable, PB170, PB9400, PB G3 (black), PB Titanium, PB G4 12) All the others have been recycled... snif... :-( I only keep the Mac on which I worked Le 4 mai 2010 à 18:35, stephen barncard a écrit : I still have my working SE-30, which still has big screen capability, 10Base-T Ethernet, and an accelerator. Last use was to be an SMTP and FTP server - worked well. I'm keeping that unit, but am giving my other Mac history items away - any luddites in SF call me before they become e-waste. I have an 9600, 8100, and 7100, a cube, and an iMac. Most of my computers are stored in the attic of my house in Scotland, so I only get to see them about every 2 years; however it is always a pleasure to find that my 5260CD is still quite a good machine for basic WP and internet stuff when I am over there and using dial-up via modem for a couple of weeks. I can see no reason to get rid of them; love working with RunRev 1.1.1 on system 8.1; makes me realise how far we have all come since then; yet, in some respects, the whole experience was a lot cleaner then. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
On 04/05/2010 20:09, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: What everyone here seems to forget is that flash finally took vector graphics powered by very tightly packed and efficiently executed byte code to a web that choked up by static bit maps. It was long overdue. Problem is that it never belonged at the plugin level. Now steve is trying to right this architectural wrong, but from the same messed up closed system protectionist motivation that drove macromedia to make the same mistake. Infrastructure is infrastructure. It serves no one to build a private interstate highway system. haven't we learned this yet? I am all for antitrust laws but only when those writing and enforcing them understand them at a deeper level than simple market competition. Obama is a smart guy. He is appointing smart prosecutors and judges and giving them the right mandates. Something of merit will come of this standoff and what motivates it. But I do remember the ridiculous apple antitrust suit against microsoft. Who built the windows mouse metaphor... xerox. The truth has a way of bubbling up. What bothers me is how willing the public is to forgive (even become apologists for) criminal or short sighted minds when those minds get rich being better at being wrong than I am. What color is the money you make? Let's see: 2 lev notes are purple, 5 lev notes are red, 10 lev notes are yellow-brown, 20 lev notes are blue, 50 lev notes are also yellow-brown (but a different size from the 10s) and the 100 lev ones (of which I see very few) are green. More to the point; I don't know how those notes have come to me; how the parents of the children I teach have earned them, and so on: what I do know is that I do my job as best I can and that money pays for the bread and cheese. I don't vet the people who pay me to find out how honest they are; for starters it would be plain offensive, I'd lose all my pupils in double-quick time, and don't quite see the point. Money has no smell; what does smell is how it is obtained; mine smells reasonably rosey. I hope the same can be said for you. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
Hi Jeff What happens if they refuse to give you the QA approval? It now sounds like they have, as opposed to execute, the power to stop you at 2 points in the development cycle. The fact that they do not use it is separate from the license agreement which appears to have dual points of approval, before and after you develop. What does the actual license agreement say (can you quote it)? Neal Campbell Abroham Neal Software www.abrohamnealsoftware.com (540) 645 5394 NEW PHONE NUMBER Amateur Radio: K3NC Blog: http://www.abrohamnealsoftware.com/blog/ DXBase bug reports: email to ca...@dxbase.fogbugz.com Abroham Neal forums: http:/www.abrohamnealsoftware.com/community/ On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Jeff Massung mass...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Neal Campbell nealk...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jeff But what happens if MSFT or Nintendo reject your app. They hold the same power of rejection that Apple does, Not true. The idea of reject isn't quite the same in the console context as it is for Apple and the App Store. To simplify this greatly, Nintendo or MSFT actually agrees to your app long before you ever get to the submission process. This is the process of acquiring a title ID for your application. Some publishers do it late in the process and others do it very early - even before they enter into production. Once you have a title ID, your game has been accepted. It should be noted that the only times I've ever seen an app get rejected at this stage is if it goes way beyond what the console wants to be equated with in the public eye. For example, making a pornography game on the Nintendo likely wouldn't get a title ID. The submission process is very different from getting a title ID. This is nothing more than a glorified QA. It's when the console maker ensures that you handle crazy situations: player removes the DVD while the game is running, unplugs a controller, turns off the console during a save, leaves the game running for days on end to test for memory fragmentation/leaks, etc. Your game may be rejected at this stage, but only is as much as you fix the bugs and resubmit. Once the bugs are gone, you're gold. Jeff M. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Thomas McGrath sent the following to me. Anyone know what it means or is
supposed to do?
Randall
On May 2, 2010, at 7:47 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
[...]
NSString *documentsDirectory = [paths objectAtIndex:0];
while(!madeNewPath) {
imgPath = [documentsDirectory stringByAppendingPathComponent:[NSString
stringWithFormat:@WhatThe%i.jpg,x]];
if([[NSFileManager defaultManager] fileExistsAtPath:imgPath]) x++; else
madeNewPath = TRUE;
}
[...]
restoredImg = [UIImage imageWithData:[NSData dataWithContentsOfFile:imgPath]];
On May 2, 2010, at 10:17 PM, Mark Swindell wrote:
Randall,
Like most people, I'm neither Galileo nor the Church. I sign my real name
to my posts, and I asked you a real question hoping for a real answer... a
simple, honest question about your vision for computing, to which you have
no answer, only more masturbatory rhetoric, and the same name calling and
juvenile inferences that only a few posts ago you so decried when it came
your way. So, unless you wish to become honest and stop hiding inside your
linguistic psychedelics, I give up. I'm not sure at this point that you'd
recognize truth or honesty if it hit you upside the head with a two-by-four.
Mark
On May 2, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
Sad. Truth matters in all affairs. Good people can see through lies and
purposeful deceit. History will judge. Are you galileo or the church?
-Original Message-
From: Mark Swindell mdswind...@cruzio.com
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:45 PM
To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
I can answer the question of your vision myself? I asked you to share your
vision, in simplest terms, without ambiguity, through a few examples.
Instead you answer with more obfuscation. I can only think, after a
certain point, that you don't really have a vision what you're after. And
don't say I didn't ask or that I'm in need of a teacher to tell me what to
think or how to behave. SImple questions deserve simple answers.
Mark
On May 2, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
You can answer that question your self easly enough. Close your eyes,
imagine evolution doing what evolution does. Where will complexity
handling systems be in 10, 20, 100 years? The whole notion of sitting
down at a computer is hopelessly old-school. The better question really
is what is it that systems want? Any systems. Humans are a system. Is
it the shovel we are after, or is it the ditch, is it water we want or the
fruit it grows, is it the fruit or the energy we receive, is it the energy
or is it the use we put that energy towards, what are these uses, what
drives us towards them, where is it all headed? Is any of this something
that is best embodied in a spread sheet or a web page or a slide show?
aren't these notions simply the result of the limitations our imaginations
place upon the future as a result of historical experience? The real
question becomes, what do you want out of life?
[The entire original message is not included]
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RE: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
Well that is better than the usual response. We can't wag our fingers simply because someone has figured out how to be better or bigger criminals that we are. Big criminals get big only because the larger society in which they practice their art reflects in public sentiment the criminal behaviour they exploit. We vote every day and all day long. -Original Message- From: Richmond Mathewson richmondmathew...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 10:22 AM To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue) On 04/05/2010 20:09, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: What everyone here seems to forget is that flash finally took vector graphics powered by very tightly packed and efficiently executed byte code to a web that choked up by static bit maps. It was long overdue. Problem is that it never belonged at the plugin level. Now steve is trying to right this architectural wrong, but from the same messed up closed system protectionist motivation that drove macromedia to make the same mistake. Infrastructure is infrastructure. It serves no one to build a private interstate highway system. haven't we learned this yet? I am all for antitrust laws but only when those writing and enforcing them understand them at a deeper level than simple market competition. Obama is a smart guy. He is appointing smart prosecutors and judges and giving them the right mandates. Something of merit will come of this standoff and what motivates it. But I do remember the ridiculous apple antitrust suit against microsoft. Who built the windows mouse metaphor... xerox. The truth has a way of bubbling up. What bothers me is how willing the public is to forgive (even become apologists for) criminal or short sighted minds when those minds get rich being better at being wrong than I am. What color is the money you make? Let's see: 2 lev notes are purple, 5 lev notes are red, 10 lev notes are yellow-brown, 20 lev notes are blue, 50 lev notes are also yellow-brown (but a different size from the 10s) and the 100 lev ones (of which I see very few) are green. More to the point; I don't know how those notes have come to me; how the parents of the children I teach have earned them, and so on: what I do know is that I do my job as best I can and that money pays for the bread and cheese. I don't vet the people who pay me to find out how honest they are; for starters it would be plain offensive, I'd lose all my pupils in double-quick time, and don't quite see the point. Money has no smell; what does smell is how it is obtained; mine smells reasonably rosey. I hope the same can be said for you. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Neal Campbell nealk...@gmail.com wrote: What happens if they refuse to give you the QA approval? Nothing other than you fix a couple bugs and resubmit for approval. To be clear, this is *not* like submitting your app to Apple for approval in the AppStore. Apple's approval is about them making sure they like what they see and they can (for all intense purposes) reject your app for any reason what-so-ever. Submitting to Nintendo (or Sony or MSFT) is 100% a QA approval. They aren't playing your game or checking it for inappropriate content (ESRB does that and rates your game). All the QA approval process is about is whether or not your game crashes and abides by certain guidelines. For example (taken from Nintendo Wii lot check): *Section 3.3: Prohibition of Sustained Continuous Non-Sequential Access [Required]* If there has been no user input for more than 5 minutes (or 10-15 minutes, based on the screen burn-in reduction feature setting), continuous non-sequential disc access should end within 1 hour. Once user input is received, resume normal operations. Non-sequential access is defined as seeking to access data spaced more than 200 MB apart on the disc. Non-sequential access resumed within five seconds for a long period of time can shorten the lifespan of the disc drive. To avoid unnecessary aging of the disc drive while the user is not operating the application, do not conduct this kind of non-sequential access for more than one continuous hour. For example, when a movie is playing for a long time, position the files that will be accessed nearby and, if non-sequential access will be carried out, limit the number of loops. For information on the wait time set for the screen burn-in reduction feature, see the Wii Video Interface Library (VI) manual and the Video Interface Library section of the Revolution Function Reference Manual. If you are going to reconfigure the wait time for the screen burn-in reduction feature, see section 6.22 Changing Screen Burn-In Reduction Wait Time [Recommended]. They are all like this. They are geared towards protecting the hardware from malicious use (constantly writing to flash or pinging the head of the DVD), and the user's TV, making sure the user has certain interface expectations (ala HID), and that should something bad happen, your application handles it gracefully. There is absolutely nothing about the QA submission process for which you can be rejected permanently. You'll just be given a list of bugs to fix and you fix them. What does the actual license agreement say (can you quote it)? No, I cannot. Jeff M. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
I have hope though that public pressure and the SEC could change matters. Maybe the game market isn't precedence but I am sure Apple will try to make it that way! Neal Campbell Abroham Neal Software www.abrohamnealsoftware.com (540) 645 5394 NEW PHONE NUMBER Amateur Radio: K3NC Blog: http://www.abrohamnealsoftware.com/blog/ DXBase bug reports: email to ca...@dxbase.fogbugz.com Abroham Neal forums: http:/www.abrohamnealsoftware.com/community/ On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Jeff Massung mass...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Neal Campbell nealk...@gmail.com wrote: What happens if they refuse to give you the QA approval? Nothing other than you fix a couple bugs and resubmit for approval. To be clear, this is *not* like submitting your app to Apple for approval in the AppStore. Apple's approval is about them making sure they like what they see and they can (for all intense purposes) reject your app for any reason what-so-ever. Submitting to Nintendo (or Sony or MSFT) is 100% a QA approval. They aren't playing your game or checking it for inappropriate content (ESRB does that and rates your game). All the QA approval process is about is whether or not your game crashes and abides by certain guidelines. For example (taken from Nintendo Wii lot check): *Section 3.3: Prohibition of Sustained Continuous Non-Sequential Access [Required]* If there has been no user input for more than 5 minutes (or 10-15 minutes, based on the screen burn-in reduction feature setting), continuous non-sequential disc access should end within 1 hour. Once user input is received, resume normal operations. Non-sequential access is defined as seeking to access data spaced more than 200 MB apart on the disc. Non-sequential access resumed within five seconds for a long period of time can shorten the lifespan of the disc drive. To avoid unnecessary aging of the disc drive while the user is not operating the application, do not conduct this kind of non-sequential access for more than one continuous hour. For example, when a movie is playing for a long time, position the files that will be accessed nearby and, if non-sequential access will be carried out, limit the number of loops. For information on the wait time set for the screen burn-in reduction feature, see the Wii Video Interface Library (VI) manual and the Video Interface Library section of the Revolution Function Reference Manual. If you are going to reconfigure the wait time for the screen burn-in reduction feature, see section 6.22 Changing Screen Burn-In Reduction Wait Time [Recommended]. They are all like this. They are geared towards protecting the hardware from malicious use (constantly writing to flash or pinging the head of the DVD), and the user's TV, making sure the user has certain interface expectations (ala HID), and that should something bad happen, your application handles it gracefully. There is absolutely nothing about the QA submission process for which you can be rejected permanently. You'll just be given a list of bugs to fix and you fix them. What does the actual license agreement say (can you quote it)? No, I cannot. Jeff M. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 05/04/2010 at 03:23 PM, Randall Reetz rand...@randallreetz.com wrote:
Thomas McGrath sent the following to me. Anyone know what it means or is
supposed to do?
Randall
On May 2, 2010, at 7:47 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
[...]
NSString *documentsDirectory = [paths objectAtIndex:0];
while(!madeNewPath) {
imgPath = [documentsDirectory stringByAppendingPathComponent:[NSString
stringWithFormat:@WhatThe%i.jpg,x]];
if([[NSFileManager defaultManager] fileExistsAtPath:imgPath]) x++; else
madeNewPath = TRUE;
}
[...]
restoredImg = [UIImage imageWithData:[NSData
dataWithContentsOfFile:imgPath]];
It is message sent back from the future. Once you execute it, it will learn
what you want and will just do it. ;)
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Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
Well and coherently argued, as usual. But, question: if the restrictions stick or fail to stick, what do you think the implications are for Rev and resources for multiple platforms? If they do get into the App Store, are there enough resources to do that, Windows, OSX, Linux and Android as well? Yes, I have a one track mind on this, but its my only programming language right now. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
It's an example of what you'll need to know if you want to program for
the iPad and iPhone if SJ has his way.
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 3:34 PM, roger.e.el...@sealedair.com wrote:
On 05/04/2010 at 03:23 PM, Randall Reetz rand...@randallreetz.com wrote:
Thomas McGrath sent the following to me. Anyone know what it means or is
supposed to do?
Randall
On May 2, 2010, at 7:47 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
[...]
NSString *documentsDirectory = [paths objectAtIndex:0];
while(!madeNewPath) {
imgPath = [documentsDirectory stringByAppendingPathComponent:[NSString
stringWithFormat:@WhatThe%i.jpg,x]];
if([[NSFileManager defaultManager] fileExistsAtPath:imgPath]) x++; else
madeNewPath = TRUE;
}
[...]
restoredImg = [UIImage imageWithData:[NSData
dataWithContentsOfFile:imgPath]];
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Sorry, wrong list.
Regards,
Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
http://lazyriver.on-rev.com
3mcgr...@comcast.net
I Can Speak - Communication for the rest of us...
http://mypad.lazyriver.on-rev.com
I Can Speak on the iPad Store
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/i-can-speak/id364733279?mt=8
DeMoted - Have you DeMoted Someone today?
http://demoted.lazyriver.on-rev.com
DeMoted on the iTune App Store
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/demoted/id355925236?mt=8
On May 4, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:
Thomas McGrath sent the following to me. Anyone know what it means or is
supposed to do?
Randall
On May 2, 2010, at 7:47 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
[...]
NSString *documentsDirectory = [paths objectAtIndex:0];
while(!madeNewPath) {
imgPath = [documentsDirectory stringByAppendingPathComponent:[NSString
stringWithFormat:@WhatThe%i.jpg,x]];
if([[NSFileManager defaultManager] fileExistsAtPath:imgPath]) x++; else
madeNewPath = TRUE;
}
[...]
restoredImg = [UIImage imageWithData:[NSData
dataWithContentsOfFile:imgPath]];
On May 2, 2010, at 10:17 PM, Mark Swindell wrote:
Randall,
Like most people, I'm neither Galileo nor the Church. I sign my real name
to my posts, and I asked you a real question hoping for a real answer... a
simple, honest question about your vision for computing, to which you have
no answer, only more masturbatory rhetoric, and the same name calling and
juvenile inferences that only a few posts ago you so decried when it came
your way. So, unless you wish to become honest and stop hiding inside your
linguistic psychedelics, I give up. I'm not sure at this point that you'd
recognize truth or honesty if it hit you upside the head with a
two-by-four.
Mark
On May 2, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
Sad. Truth matters in all affairs. Good people can see through lies and
purposeful deceit. History will judge. Are you galileo or the church?
-Original Message-
From: Mark Swindell mdswind...@cruzio.com
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:45 PM
To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
I can answer the question of your vision myself? I asked you to share
your vision, in simplest terms, without ambiguity, through a few examples.
Instead you answer with more obfuscation. I can only think, after a
certain point, that you don't really have a vision what you're after. And
don't say I didn't ask or that I'm in need of a teacher to tell me what to
think or how to behave. SImple questions deserve simple answers.
Mark
On May 2, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
You can answer that question your self easly enough. Close your eyes,
imagine evolution doing what evolution does. Where will complexity
handling systems be in 10, 20, 100 years? The whole notion of sitting
down at a computer is hopelessly old-school. The better question really
is what is it that systems want? Any systems. Humans are a system. Is
it the shovel we are after, or is it the ditch, is it water we want or
the fruit it grows, is it the fruit or the energy we receive, is it the
energy or is it the use we put that energy towards, what are these uses,
what drives us towards them, where is it all headed? Is any of this
something that is best embodied in a spread sheet or a web page or a
slide show? aren't these notions simply the result of the limitations
our imaginations place upon the future as a result of historical
experience? The real question becomes, what do you want out of life?
[The entire original message is not included]
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Dear all, i think it is all said. Please stop this annoying discussion. This list is called use-revolution, so maybe we can come back to this again. Thank you! Matthias Am 03.05.2010 um 07:23 schrieb Randall Lee Reetz: Are you closer to understanding entropy and the evolution of complexity now? -Original Message- From: Mark Swindell mdswind...@cruzio.com Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:17 PM To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue Randall, Like most people, I'm neither Galileo nor the Church. I sign my real name to my posts, and I asked you a real question hoping for a real answer... a simple, honest question about your vision for computing, to which you have no answer, only more masturbatory rhetoric, and the same name calling and juvenile inferences that only a few posts ago you so decried when it came your way. So, unless you wish to become honest and stop hiding inside your linguistic psychedelics, I give up. I'm not sure at this point that you'd recognize truth or honesty if it hit you upside the head with a two-by-four. Mark On May 2, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: Sad. Truth matters in all affairs. Good people can see through lies and purposeful deceit. History will judge. Are you galileo or the church? -Original Message- From: Mark Swindell mdswind...@cruzio.com Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:45 PM To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue [The entire original message is not included] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT?: AI, learning networks and pattern recognition (was: Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
Dear all, i think it is all said. Please stop this annoying discussion. This list is called use-revolution, so maybe we can come back to this again. Thank you! Matthias Am 03.05.2010 um 07:47 schrieb Randall Lee Reetz: Why don't you ask the guys at adobe if their content is really aware. -Original Message- From: Ian Wood revl...@azurevision.co.uk Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 9:27 PM To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: OT?: AI, learning networks and pattern recognition (was: Apples actual response to the Flash issue) Now we're getting somewhere that actually has some vague relevance to the list. On 2 May 2010, at 22:39, Randall Reetz wrote: I had assumed your questions were rhetorical. If I ask the same questions multiple times you can be sure that they're not rhetorical. When I say that software hasn't changed I mean to say that it hasn't jumped qualitative categories. We are still living in a world where computing exists as pre-written and compiled software that is blindly executed by machines and stacked foundational code that has no idea what it is processing, can only process linearly, all semantics have been stripped, it doesn't learn from experience or react to context unless this too has been pre-codified and frozen in binary or byte code, etc. etc etc. Hardware has been souped up. So our little wrote tricks can be made more elaborate within the substantial confines mentioned. These same in-paradigm restrictions apply to both the software users slog through and the software we use to write software. As a result, these very plastic machines with mercurial potential are reduced to simple players that react to user interrupts. They are sequencing systems, not unlike the lead type setting racks of Guttenburg-era printing presses. Sure we have taught them some interesting seeming tricks – if you can represent something as digital media, be it sound, video, multi-dimentional graph space, markup – our sequencer doesn't know enough to care. So for you, for something to be 'revolutionary' it has to involve a full paradigm shift? That's a more extreme definition than most people use. Current processors are capable of 6.5 million instructions per second but are used less than a billionth of available cycles by the standard users running standard software. From a pedantic, technical point of view, these days if the processor is being used that little then it will ramp down the clock speed, which has some environmental and practical benefits in itself. ;-) As regards photo editing software, anyone aware of the history of image processing will recognize that most of the stuff seen in photoshop and other programs was proposed and executed on systems long before some guys in france democratized these algorithms for consumer use and had their code acquired by adobe. It used to be called array arithmetic and applied smoothly to images divided up into a grid of pixels. None of these systems see an image for its content except as an array of numbers that can be crunched sequentially like a spread sheet. It was only when object recognition concepts were applied to photos that any kind of compositional grammar could be extracted from an image and compared as parts to other images similarly decomposed. This is a form of semantic processing and has its parallels in other media like text parsers and sound analysis software. You haven't looked up what content-aware fill *is*, have you? It's based on the same basic concepts of pattern-matching/feature detection that facial recognition software is based on but with a different emphasis. To paraphrase, it's not facial recognition that you think is the only revolutionary feature in photography in twenty years, it's pattern- matching/detection/eigenvectors. A lot of time and frustration would have been saved if you'd said that in the first place. Semantics opens the door to the building of systems that understand the content they process. That is the promised second revolution in computation that really hasn't seen any practical light of day as of yet. You're jumping too many steps here - object recognition concepts are in *widespread* use in consumer software and devices, whether it's the aforementioned 'focus-on-a-face' digital cameras, healing brushes in many different pieces of software, feature recognition in panoramic stitching software or even live stitching in some of the new Sony cameras. Semantic processing of content doesn't magically enable a computer to initiate action. Data mining really isn't semantically mindful, simply uses statistical reduction mechanisms to guess at the existence of the location of pattern ( a good first step but missing the grammatical hierarchy necessary
RE: OT?: AI, learning networks and pattern recognition (was: Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
Why don't you ask the guys at adobe if their content is really aware. -Original Message- From: Ian Wood revl...@azurevision.co.uk Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 9:27 PM To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: OT?: AI, learning networks and pattern recognition (was: Apples actual response to the Flash issue) Now we're getting somewhere that actually has some vague relevance to the list. On 2 May 2010, at 22:39, Randall Reetz wrote: I had assumed your questions were rhetorical. If I ask the same questions multiple times you can be sure that they're not rhetorical. When I say that software hasn't changed I mean to say that it hasn't jumped qualitative categories. We are still living in a world where computing exists as pre-written and compiled software that is blindly executed by machines and stacked foundational code that has no idea what it is processing, can only process linearly, all semantics have been stripped, it doesn't learn from experience or react to context unless this too has been pre-codified and frozen in binary or byte code, etc. etc etc. Hardware has been souped up. So our little wrote tricks can be made more elaborate within the substantial confines mentioned. These same in-paradigm restrictions apply to both the software users slog through and the software we use to write software. As a result, these very plastic machines with mercurial potential are reduced to simple players that react to user interrupts. They are sequencing systems, not unlike the lead type setting racks of Guttenburg-era printing presses. Sure we have taught them some interesting seeming tricks if you can represent something as digital media, be it sound, video, multi-dimentional graph space, markup our sequencer doesn't know enough to care. So for you, for something to be 'revolutionary' it has to involve a full paradigm shift? That's a more extreme definition than most people use. Current processors are capable of 6.5 million instructions per second but are used less than a billionth of available cycles by the standard users running standard software. From a pedantic, technical point of view, these days if the processor is being used that little then it will ramp down the clock speed, which has some environmental and practical benefits in itself. ;-) As regards photo editing software, anyone aware of the history of image processing will recognize that most of the stuff seen in photoshop and other programs was proposed and executed on systems long before some guys in france democratized these algorithms for consumer use and had their code acquired by adobe. It used to be called array arithmetic and applied smoothly to images divided up into a grid of pixels. None of these systems see an image for its content except as an array of numbers that can be crunched sequentially like a spread sheet. It was only when object recognition concepts were applied to photos that any kind of compositional grammar could be extracted from an image and compared as parts to other images similarly decomposed. This is a form of semantic processing and has its parallels in other media like text parsers and sound analysis software. You haven't looked up what content-aware fill *is*, have you? It's based on the same basic concepts of pattern-matching/feature detection that facial recognition software is based on but with a different emphasis. To paraphrase, it's not facial recognition that you think is the only revolutionary feature in photography in twenty years, it's pattern- matching/detection/eigenvectors. A lot of time and frustration would have been saved if you'd said that in the first place. Semantics opens the door to the building of systems that understand the content they process. That is the promised second revolution in computation that really hasn't seen any practical light of day as of yet. You're jumping too many steps here - object recognition concepts are in *widespread* use in consumer software and devices, whether it's the aforementioned 'focus-on-a-face' digital cameras, healing brushes in many different pieces of software, feature recognition in panoramic stitching software or even live stitching in some of the new Sony cameras. Semantic processing of content doesn't magically enable a computer to initiate action. Data mining really isn't semantically mindful, simply uses statistical reduction mechanisms to guess at the existence of the location of pattern ( a good first step but missing the grammatical hierarchy necessary to work towards a self optimized and domain independent ability to detect and represent salience in the stacked grammar that makes up any complex system. Combining pattern-matching with adaptive systems, whether they be neural networks or something else is another matter
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 03/05/2010 05:17, Mark Swindell wrote: Randall, Like most people, I'm neither Galileo nor the Church. I sign my real name to my posts, and I asked you a real question hoping for a real answer... a simple, honest question about your vision for computing, to which you have no answer, only more masturbatory rhetoric, and the same name calling and juvenile inferences that only a few posts ago you so decried when it came your way. So, unless you wish to become honest and stop hiding inside your linguistic psychedelics, I give up. I'm not sure at this point that you'd recognize truth or honesty if it hit you upside the head with a two-by-four. Mark Very well said. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
I guess if a person is sufficiently ignorant or has their fingers in their ears and screams, any honest answer will slip by un recognized. Would you like it better if I said the future of computing is better touch up tools in photo editors? In the nixon administration your rhetorical technique was called rat f___ing and was used as you are to thwart opponents who would win legitimate and fair debates or elections. Tell me your great vision of computation or at the very least why you are so threatened by me. -Original Message- From: Randall Lee Reetz rand...@randallreetz.com Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 10:23 PM To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue Are you closer to understanding entropy and the evolution of complexity now? -Original Message- From: Mark Swindell mdswind...@cruzio.com Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:17 PM To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue Randall, Like most people, I'm neither Galileo nor the Church. I sign my real name to my posts, and I asked you a real question hoping for a real answer... a simple, honest question about your vision for computing, to which you have no answer, only more masturbatory rhetoric, and the same name calling and juvenile inferences that only a few posts ago you so decried when it came your way. So, unless you wish to become honest and stop hiding inside your linguistic psychedelics, I give up. I'm not sure at this point that you'd recognize truth or honesty if it hit you upside the head with a two-by-four. Mark On May 2, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: Sad. Truth matters in all affairs. Good people can see through lies and [The entire original message is not included] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: OT?: AI, learning networks and pattern recognition (was: Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
I can see how the word revolution in the context of this list has acquired so anemic and castrated a meaning. I am sorry. Next time, I will use a word that means all the way around, or when a king is replaced by a democracy. time. -Original Message- From: Ian Wood revl...@azurevision.co.uk Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 9:27 PM To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: OT?: AI, learning networks and pattern recognition (was: Apples actual response to the Flash issue) Now we're getting somewhere that actually has some vague relevance to the list. On 2 May 2010, at 22:39, Randall Reetz wrote: I had assumed your questions were rhetorical. If I ask the same questions multiple times you can be sure that they're not rhetorical. When I say that software hasn't changed I mean to say that it hasn't jumped qualitative categories. We are still living in a world where computing exists as pre-written and compiled software that is blindly executed by machines and stacked foundational code that has no idea what it is processing, can only process linearly, all semantics have been stripped, it doesn't learn from experience or react to context unless this too has been pre-codified and frozen in binary or byte code, etc. etc etc. Hardware has been souped up. So our little wrote tricks can be made more elaborate within the substantial confines mentioned. These same in-paradigm restrictions apply to both the software users slog through and the software we use to write software. As a result, these very plastic machines with mercurial potential are reduced to simple players that react to user interrupts. They are sequencing systems, not unlike the lead type setting racks of Guttenburg-era printing presses. Sure we have taught them some interesting seeming tricks if you can represent something as digital media, be it sound, video, multi-dimentional graph space, markup our sequencer doesn't know enough to care. So for you, for something to be 'revolutionary' it has to involve a full paradigm shift? That's a more extreme definition than most people use. Current processors are capable of 6.5 million instructions per second but are used less than a billionth of available cycles by the standard users running standard software. From a pedantic, technical point of view, these days if the processor is being used that little then it will ramp down the clock speed, which has some environmental and practical benefits in itself. ;-) As regards photo editing software, anyone aware of the history of image processing will recognize that most of the stuff seen in photoshop and other programs was proposed and executed on systems long before some guys in france democratized these algorithms for consumer use and had their code acquired by adobe. It used to be called array arithmetic and applied smoothly to images divided up into a grid of pixels. None of these systems see an image for its content except as an array of numbers that can be crunched sequentially like a spread sheet. It was only when object recognition concepts were applied to photos that any kind of compositional grammar could be extracted from an image and compared as parts to other images similarly decomposed. This is a form of semantic processing and has its parallels in other media like text parsers and sound analysis software. You haven't looked up what content-aware fill *is*, have you? It's based on the same basic concepts of pattern-matching/feature detection that facial recognition software is based on but with a different emphasis. To paraphrase, it's not facial recognition that you think is the only revolutionary feature in photography in twenty years, it's pattern- matching/detection/eigenvectors. A lot of time and frustration would have been saved if you'd said that in the first place. Semantics opens the door to the building of systems that understand the content they process. That is the promised second revolution in computation that really hasn't seen any practical light of day as of yet. You're jumping too many steps here - object recognition concepts are in *widespread* use in consumer software and devices, whether it's the aforementioned 'focus-on-a-face' digital cameras, healing brushes in many different pieces of software, feature recognition in panoramic stitching software or even live stitching in some of the new Sony cameras. Semantic processing of content doesn't magically enable a computer to initiate action. Data mining really isn't semantically mindful, simply uses statistical reduction mechanisms to guess at the existence of the location of pattern ( a good first step but missing the grammatical hierarchy necessary to work towards a self optimized and domain independent ability to detect and represent salience in the stacked
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Are you closer to understanding entropy and the evolution of complexity now? -Original Message- From: Mark Swindell mdswind...@cruzio.com Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:17 PM To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue Randall, Like most people, I'm neither Galileo nor the Church. I sign my real name to my posts, and I asked you a real question hoping for a real answer... a simple, honest question about your vision for computing, to which you have no answer, only more masturbatory rhetoric, and the same name calling and juvenile inferences that only a few posts ago you so decried when it came your way. So, unless you wish to become honest and stop hiding inside your linguistic psychedelics, I give up. I'm not sure at this point that you'd recognize truth or honesty if it hit you upside the head with a two-by-four. Mark On May 2, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: Sad. Truth matters in all affairs. Good people can see through lies and purposeful deceit. History will judge. Are you galileo or the church? -Original Message- From: Mark Swindell mdswind...@cruzio.com Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:45 PM To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue [The entire original message is not included] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Mark Wieder wrote: Colin- Sunday, May 2, 2010, 8:52:47 PM, you wrote: On May 2, 2010, at 11:47 PM, Alejandro Tejada wrote: Should we just keep dancing on titanic's deck? Is stupidity the new brilliant? Aha! Hence the new Apple slogan: Sink Different. Groan/ Kill Colin! See TheShortMovie. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Ah, been gone for a couple of hours and come back to exactly what I expected. Not a single List member nominated another List member as being more capable of running Apple than Steve Jobs. And not for want of campaigning. Some very spirited and some rather long posts clearly trying to persuade the masses to vote their way, but in the end not a single mind was changed, not a single prejudice altered - although I much enjoyed the Electrical Engineers manifesto ;-) So what it all boils down to is, some of us think Steve is wrong, and some of us think that Steve is right, but regardless of whether he's right or wrong, ALL of us know, deep down inside, no matter how much it pains us, that Steve + Apple - Flash will make a whole heap more money than [your name here] + Apple + Flash. And everyone on the List agrees ;-) And the sediment left in the bottom is actually the pile of all our own prejudices, failings, misgivings, inadequacies, lack of vision and lack of confidence. I, and I know others on this List, don't see the point of an iPad. If I were running Apple it would be an unmitigated failure because I have no confidence in the product, no vision on what it could do, no talent on how to market it, and no drive to see it through. It wouldn't matter if I listened to everyone on this List and added all the bells and whistles it's critics are complaining about. It would be a failure. But in Steve's hands I know it will be a success. I've been blown away by what some people have dreamt up for the thing. After seeing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffFmtQWrYNg If I had grandchildren, I'd buy one for them, not question. My wife will undoubtedly buy one, regardless of my 'what for???' protests. And if I somehow manage to get out of paying for it, she'll persuade her work to buy a couple. Some think that the Flash decision is wrong, but really all they are reflecting is the fact that they themselves couldn't make it work because of all their own sediment. Whether it's right or wrong isn't anywhere near as important as whether Steve can continue to make money without Flash, and I, and I'm sure most on this List, deep down, believe he can. Steve knows the market, knows how to spin things, knows where he's headed, knows the steps to get there, knows what life is like with Flash, and has a good handle on what life will be like without Flash, and it is he who has chosen the time to pull the plug. The Future will shortly be History repeating itself. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Wow! well said Kay... commonsense is back in town. On 03/05/2010, at 6:34 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: Ah, been gone for a couple of hours and come back to exactly what I expected. Not a single List member nominated another List member as being more capable of running Apple than Steve Jobs. And not for want of campaigning. Some very spirited and some rather long posts clearly trying to persuade the masses to vote their way, but in the end not a single mind was changed, not a single prejudice altered - although I much enjoyed the Electrical Engineers manifesto ;-) So what it all boils down to is, some of us think Steve is wrong, and some of us think that Steve is right, but regardless of whether he's right or wrong, ALL of us know, deep down inside, no matter how much it pains us, that Steve + Apple - Flash will make a whole heap more money than [your name here] + Apple + Flash. And everyone on the List agrees ;-) And the sediment left in the bottom is actually the pile of all our own prejudices, failings, misgivings, inadequacies, lack of vision and lack of confidence. I, and I know others on this List, don't see the point of an iPad. If I were running Apple it would be an unmitigated failure because I have no confidence in the product, no vision on what it could do, no talent on how to market it, and no drive to see it through. It wouldn't matter if I listened to everyone on this List and added all the bells and whistles it's critics are complaining about. It would be a failure. But in Steve's hands I know it will be a success. I've been blown away by what some people have dreamt up for the thing. After seeing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffFmtQWrYNg If I had grandchildren, I'd buy one for them, not question. My wife will undoubtedly buy one, regardless of my 'what for???' protests. And if I somehow manage to get out of paying for it, she'll persuade her work to buy a couple. Some think that the Flash decision is wrong, but really all they are reflecting is the fact that they themselves couldn't make it work because of all their own sediment. Whether it's right or wrong isn't anywhere near as important as whether Steve can continue to make money without Flash, and I, and I'm sure most on this List, deep down, believe he can. Steve knows the market, knows how to spin things, knows where he's headed, knows the steps to get there, knows what life is like with Flash, and has a good handle on what life will be like without Flash, and it is he who has chosen the time to pull the plug. The Future will shortly be History repeating itself. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Chris Livermore - Senior Project Manager www.kipmedia.com Mobile 0403 288 504 cont...@kipmedia.com __ B.Sc., Dip.Biol.Sc., Dip.Prof.Comm (multimedia). - Scientific/Medical - multimedia education training - online databases, websites, cd, dvd, video __ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Colin Holgate: Aha! Hence the new Apple slogan: Sink Different. Please forgive me, but for those who haven't seen it, this clip is right on the mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMhICbFn2JI___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Apples actual response to the Flash issue
I think that the combination of portability/touchscreen opens up a few new tricks; an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHiEqf5wb3gNR=1feature=fvwp It seems to me that Apple has its own versions of technologies that accept a greater variety of user inputs, perhaps mitigating the need for Flash. As others have mentioned, we also see here a prime example of heavy hype in action...___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Is this true ? http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/an_antitrust_app_buvCWcJdjFoLD5vBSkguGO René___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Hello Kurt, Beautiful realisation ! René Le 3 mai 2010 à 14:14, Kurt Kaufman a écrit : I think that the combination of portability/touchscreen opens up a few new tricks; an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHiEqf5wb3gNR=1feature=fvwp It seems to me that Apple has its own versions of technologies that accept a greater variety of user inputs, perhaps mitigating the need for Flash. As others have mentioned, we also see here a prime example of heavy hype in action...___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Rép : Apples actual response to the Flash iss ue
Is this true ? http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/an_antitrust_app_buvCWcJdjFoLD5vBSkguGO René___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 03/05/2010 16:32, René Micout wrote: Is this true ? http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/an_antitrust_app_buvCWcJdjFoLD5vBSkguGO René I said there would be a backlash; but I didn't think it would take this form. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 7:14 AM, Kurt Kaufman kkauf...@snet.net wrote: I think that the combination of portability/touchscreen opens up a few new tricks; an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHiEqf5wb3gNR=1feature=fvwp It seems to me that Apple has its own versions of technologies that accept a greater variety of user inputs, perhaps mitigating the need for Flash. As others have mentioned, we also see here a prime example of heavy hype in action...___ That's quite amazing! Thanks for sharing it with us. Best regards, David C. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
René Micout wrote: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/an_antitrust_app_buvCWcJdjFoLD5vBSkguGO From tech blogger Hank Williams, on April 9: Trying to control where something is originally done is attempting to control the thought process that yields a given result. Because if you thought of it in Java, and wrote it in java, and then, whether by hand or by tool, converted it to C, you are now outside the bounds of 3.3.1. Some may say my interpretation is too pedantic. But the point is that in order for Apple to limit people in the way that they want to, i.e. to prevent the use of a given tool, they are inflicting collateral damage. I do not think there is a way to achieve their goal without such ridiculous restrictions. I have not done my legal homework here, but this seems to be a clear example of restraint of trade, a basic tenet of contract law. Kinda ironic that Apple launched the Mac with a 1984-themed ad, and now are willing to pursue criminal penalties for anyone who commits coder thoughtcrime. Doubleplus ungood. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
Is this true ? http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/an_antitrust_app_buvCWcJ djFoLD5vBSkguGO I hope you all don't mind my splitting this topic away from the others. If this is true, it may actually bring about some desirable changes. While a few squeaking developers may not have any impact on the state of Revolution-on-iPhone/iPad, this sort of thing can have shareholder value consequences. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
Yes - I hope it ramps things up. On 3 May 2010 15:34, Lynn Fredricks lfredri...@proactive-intl.com wrote: Is this true ? http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/an_antitrust_app_buvCWcJ djFoLD5vBSkguGO I hope you all don't mind my splitting this topic away from the others. If this is true, it may actually bring about some desirable changes. While a few squeaking developers may not have any impact on the state of Revolution-on-iPhone/iPad, this sort of thing can have shareholder value consequences. I think Steve Jobs underestimated developer reaction in the age of the internet and open source - he can't get away with the same sort of things quite as easily as companies could last century. I also doubt he will take very well to the sudden realization that he has turned from underdog fighting the cause of good design, to a one-man-band lock-in merchant in the eyes of quite so many young developers. RunRev needs all of this + the anti-trust threat to make sure revMobile on the iPhone does not fall out of this as collateral damage - the more pressure the more reason Apple will have to negotiate exceptions. Especially in Runrev can offer some technological features that are specific to the iPhone that CS5 does not offer? Google must be loving this. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
I actually believe Apple HOPED the iPad and their overall initiative to reinvent computing would be a huge success. But I think they had concerns regarding how quickly it would sell beyond the Apple faithful...especially the reinvent computing part. Apple initially under-built the iPad in terms of units produced. That's why I say that. But this list is about Revolution. This post is about the Apple mobile platform lock-down as it affects Rev developers. If were Apple, I would have difficulty viewing Revolution as a good partner with whom to reinvent computing. Rev for the Mac does not take advantage of Cocoa and DOES seek to common-denominate. Rev may have plans to change all that with a new IDE, etc, but the field object is still incapable of independently aligned, chunk-addressable columns in spite of user demand and outrage for years. So color me skeptical and Apple even more so as regards Rev keeping up with the times. On the other hand, Revolution may regard Apple as a bad business partner for changing the rules after Rev created a splendid revMobile for the iPhone/iPad. Rev may have had it with Apple. I can understand that. So...is the Apple lock-down just? For justice we must go to Don Corleone, and he does not exist. So time to forget that and the karma you think Apple deserves for being evil. Is the lock-down for Apple mobile devices for real? Yes. Will the lock-down spread to OS X? Nominally, no. In reality, YES. The MacBook Touch (or whatever it's called) will run a locked-down variant of iPad OS. It just won't have the OS X moniker. Will Revolution have to embrace the Apple approach in order to follow it? Yes. Moments like this one present huge opportunity for a small, nimble, and creative company. There's a new wind blowing and Rev has the sails (engineering) to catch it. The sails just need re-rigging. The wind (market momentum) is there. Will they re-rig? Of this i can be certain: I will be sailing in those new waters with those new winds beneath my sails (and sales). I love developing and inventing tools. I love making money while I do it. I will be doing both with or without Revolution as we know it today. Is the emerging Apple mobile market worth the re-tooling I will need to do? I believe so. It has tremendous momentum. For a small company, latching onto a small growing market is the way to go. Also, I have to consider my own experience as an iPad user. Using an iPad makes using my MacBook Pro feel almost anachronistic. I reach for the screen, wait for words to spell themselves, but my Mac just sits there. Using Windows OS at this point seems, I hate to say it...clunky. I would never have said this before, and I say this to foreshadow, not to derogate. What new development tools will I be creating for myself and others in the coming weeks and months to exploit the Apple mobile platform momentum? I have been testing several concepts, and based on the proofs, have my sights set on some pretty exciting stuff. New approaches that will still seem familiar. I cannot say a whole lot more than that, right now. But I can say this: If you want to get involved in single language development for Mac, iPhone, iPad and whatever comes next, now would be a good time to get tRev, a Mac and an iPad if you don't already have them. tRev Mac users will get first access to these new tools to which I now only allude. More on this in the coming week. Best, Jerry Daniels Use tRev's buy link during your free trial to get 20% off: http://reveditor.com/tag/shouldiswitch On May 3, 2010, at 3:34 AM, Kay C Lan lan.kc.macm...@gmail.com wrote: Ah, been gone for a couple of hours and come back to exactly what I expected. Not a single List member nominated another List member as being more capable of running Apple than Steve Jobs. And not for want of campaigning. Some very spirited and some rather long posts clearly trying to persuade the masses to vote their way, but in the end not a single mind was changed, not a single prejudice altered - although I much enjoyed the Electrical Engineers manifesto ;-) So what it all boils down to is, some of us think Steve is wrong, and some of us think that Steve is right, but regardless of whether he's right or wrong, ALL of us know, deep down inside, no matter how much it pains us, that Steve + Apple - Flash will make a whole heap more money than [your name here] + Apple + Flash. And everyone on the List agrees ;-) And the sediment left in the bottom is actually the pile of all our own prejudices, failings, misgivings, inadequacies, lack of vision and lack of confidence. I, and I know others on this List, don't see the point of an iPad. If I were running Apple it would be an unmitigated failure because I have no confidence in the product, no vision on what it could do, no talent on how to market it, and no drive to see it through. It wouldn't matter if I listened to everyone on this List
Re: Apple Anti-Trust (was Apples actual response to the Flash issue)
Remembering the dark days in the 90s when I had to defend my use of the Mac platform at work every day, seeing this comment on a CNN story today made me smile.. If you are going to use Apple news to report tech, where is the PC news? I have never seen any. When you do cover it to seem unbiased, who will you choose, Sony Viao, Dell, HP, Toshiba? So many to choose from. On 3 May 2010 08:21, David Bovill david.bov...@gmail.com wrote: Yes - I hope it ramps things up. On 3 May 2010 15:34, Lynn Fredricks lfredri...@proactive-intl.com wrote: Is this true ? http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/an_antitrust_app_buvCWcJ djFoLD5vBSkguGO I hope you all don't mind my splitting this topic away from the others. If this is true, it may actually bring about some desirable changes. While a few squeaking developers may not have any impact on the state of Revolution-on-iPhone/iPad, this sort of thing can have shareholder value consequences. I think Steve Jobs underestimated developer reaction in the age of the internet and open source - he can't get away with the same sort of things quite as easily as companies could last century. I also doubt he will take very well to the sudden realization that he has turned from underdog fighting the cause of good design, to a one-man-band lock-in merchant in the eyes of quite so many young developers. RunRev needs all of this + the anti-trust threat to make sure revMobile on the iPhone does not fall out of this as collateral damage - the more pressure the more reason Apple will have to negotiate exceptions. Especially in Runrev can offer some technological features that are specific to the iPhone that CS5 does not offer? Google must be loving this. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- - Stephen Barncard Back home in SF ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Wow. You have a knack for pre-shaping a question to extract the exact result you are seeking, and then way way way over reading the complete lack of participation in your stacked survey to mean that the list agrees with your pre-spun conclusion. Your survey was set up as a trap and everyone who read it knew it, thus your zero response participation. Too bad the soviet union doesn't exist any more, they could use a pollster like you. Even had you asked the dangerous question, Can god make mistakes? I think you would have had some data submitted. The frustration most of us are feeling in our guts has only been inflamed by this latest apple announcement. The frustration is the obvious and steady slipping away from general purpose computing as it is replaced by a media consumption and gaming platform in the form of a slick appliance. For all of its touchy input fluidity, we know it isn't designed for creativity of engineering. Nobody is using an ipad or iphone to develop ipad or iphone apps or operating systems. I worry, as I am sure others do, that apple's market supported emphasis on consumption centered devices means a general drifting away from the go it your own freedom and power a good general purpose computer allows. No one could have designed the ipad on an ipad. Would never have happened. The trend seems to point to a future for apple that looks more like General Electric. A place to buy pre-built stuff more than a place to buy tools with which to invent the future. Am I missing something, will tools be written for multi-touch environments such that we all willingly and happily walk away from our keyboards and pixel perfect pointing devices? Or is the growing dread a worthy indicator that something big is shifting and that it will be harder and harder to find open ended creativity machinery? I think of the user-programmer revolution that smalltalk and hypercard made possible and how much more powerful the macintosh felt as a result. And despite the gold rush motivations we might feel when we read of a kid in iowa who made a million dollars in a month selling a little app, we wonder if apple is making so much money on this consumption machine model that they will completely abandon those of us who think computing is about creativity and open ended creativity at that. I want to see teens on the train building stuff not slaying fake dragons or scheming an encounter with a facebook friend's facebook friend. I want that the open-ended creative option available to every teen, not just the hyper smart hyper nerdy. Is it slipping away? As for jobs. He is great at finding the greed in consumers. But unchecked, that greed seeking is only made more insidious by the amazingly designed products they release to us. Is the ipad so slick to use that we forget our need to create? Are those of us on the development end so motivated by many that we forget our obligation to the future of society? Microsoft released a video demo of a hinged two screened touch slate. For all of its clumsy interface (they are trying) it excites me none the less simply because I can imagine actually getting something done on the thing, building stuff. Not FOR it, but ON it... -Original Message- From: Kay C Lan lan.kc.macm...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:34 AM To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue Ah, been gone for a couple of hours and come back to exactly what I expected. Not a single List member nominated another List member as being more capable of running Apple than Steve Jobs. And not for want of campaigning. Some very spirited and some rather long posts clearly trying to persuade the masses to vote their way, but in the end not a single mind was changed, not a single prejudice altered - although I much enjoyed the Electrical Engineers manifesto ;-) So what it all boils down to is, some of us think Steve is wrong, and some of us think that Steve is right, but regardless of whether he's right or wrong, ALL of us know, deep down inside, no matter how much it pains us, that Steve + Apple - Flash will make a whole heap more money than [your name here] + Apple + Flash. And everyone on the List agrees ;-) And the sediment left in the bottom is actually the pile of all our own prejudices, failings, misgivings, inadequacies, lack of vision and lack of confidence. I, and I know others on this List, don't see the point of an iPad. If I were running Apple it would be an unmitigated failure because I have no confidence in the product, no vision on what it could do, no talent on how to market it, and no drive to see it through. It wouldn't matter if I listened to everyone on this List and added all the bells and whistles it's critics are complaining about. It would be a failure. [The entire original message is not included] ___ use
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issueing
Jerry's middle name might be Thor as it seems he has found out how to make The Hammer. Meaning, you beat 'em by joining 'em. Uh, that is, stacking up an overwhelming CheckMate. Best, William ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
While, there is certainly nothing wrong with deifying Stevie for yourself, please don't expect us to follow your self serving logic. Fact is, Steve's already got himself in some hot water over his recent draconian practices: (scroll to 1:20 and watch from there.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0Jsa7su-jIfeature=youtube_gdata On Monday, May 3, 2010, Kay C Lan lan.kc.macm...@gmail.com wrote: Ah, been gone for a couple of hours and come back to exactly what I expected. Not a single List member nominated another List member as being more capable of running Apple than Steve Jobs. And not for want of campaigning. Some very spirited and some rather long posts clearly trying to persuade the masses to vote their way, but in the end not a single mind was changed, not a single prejudice altered - although I much enjoyed the Electrical Engineers manifesto ;-) So what it all boils down to is, some of us think Steve is wrong, and some of us think that Steve is right, but regardless of whether he's right or wrong, ALL of us know, deep down inside, no matter how much it pains us, that Steve + Apple - Flash will make a whole heap more money than [your name here] + Apple + Flash. And everyone on the List agrees ;-) And the sediment left in the bottom is actually the pile of all our own prejudices, failings, misgivings, inadequacies, lack of vision and lack of confidence. I, and I know others on this List, don't see the point of an iPad. If I were running Apple it would be an unmitigated failure because I have no confidence in the product, no vision on what it could do, no talent on how to market it, and no drive to see it through. It wouldn't matter if I listened to everyone on this List and added all the bells and whistles it's critics are complaining about. It would be a failure. But in Steve's hands I know it will be a success. I've been blown away by what some people have dreamt up for the thing. After seeing this: Alice In Wonderland - iPad eBook http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffFmtQWrYNg If I had grandchildren, I'd buy one for them, not question. My wife will undoubtedly buy one, regardless of my 'what for???' protests. And if I somehow manage to get out of paying for it, she'll persuade her work to buy a couple. Some think that the Flash decision is wrong, but really all they are reflecting is the fact that they themselves couldn't make it work because of all their own sediment. Whether it's right or wrong isn't anywhere near as important as whether Steve can continue to make money without Flash, and I, and I'm sure most on this List, deep down, believe he can. Steve knows the market, knows how to spin things, knows where he's headed, knows the steps to get there, knows what life is like with Flash, and has a good handle on what life will be like without Flash, and it is he who has chosen the time to pull the plug. The Future will shortly be History repeating itself. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
JerryD wrote: tRev Mac users will get first access to these new tools to which I now only allude. What a tease! Looking forward to it. Jim Lambert ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On May 3, 2010, at 1:32 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0Jsa7su-jIfeature=youtube_gdata Here's the good quality version for US viewers: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-april-28-2010/appholes ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
for a couple of hours and come back to exactly what I expected. Not a single List member nominated another List member as being more capable of running Apple than Steve Jobs. And not for want of campaigning. Some very spirited and some rather long posts clearly trying to persuade the masses to vote their way, but in the end not a single mind was changed, not a single prejudice altered - although I much enjoyed the Electrical Engineers manifesto ;-) So what it all boils down to is, some of us think Steve is wrong, and some of us think that Steve is right, but regardless of whether he's right or wrong, ALL of us know, deep down inside, no matter how much it pains us, that Steve + Apple - Flash will make a whole heap more money than [your name here] + Apple + Flash. And everyone on the List agrees ;-) And the sediment left in the bottom is actually the pile of all our own prejudices, failings, misgivings, inadequacies, lack of vision and lack of confidence. I, and I know others on this List, don't see the point of an iPad. If I were running Apple it would be an unmitigated failure because I have no confidence in the product, no vision on what it could do, no talent on how to market it, and no drive to see it through. It wouldn't matter if I listened to everyone on this List and added all the bells and whistles it's critics are complaining about. It would be a failure. But in Steve's hands I know it will be a success. I've been blown away by what some people have dreamt up for the thing. After seeing this: Alice In Wonderland - iPad eBook http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffFmtQWrYNg If I had grandchildren, I'd buy one for them, not question. My wife will undoubtedly buy one, regardless of my 'what for???' protests. And if I somehow manage to get out of paying for it, she'll persuade her work to buy a couple. Some think that the Flash decision is wrong, but really all they are reflecting is the fact that they themselves couldn't make it work because of all their own sediment. Whether it's right or wrong isn't anywhere near as important as whether Steve can continue to make money without Flash, and I, and I'm sure most on this List, deep down, believe he can. Steve knows the market, knows how to spin things, knows where he's headed, knows the steps to get there, knows what life is like with Flash, and has a good handle on what life will be like without Flash, and it is he who has chosen the time to pull the plug. The Future will shortly be History repeating itself. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 2 May 2010 21:24, Randall Reetz rand...@randallreetz.com wrote: Is this the topic? Really? All you can come up with? Nasty childish nitpicking? Yes emailing is dangerous while driving. I wrote that note at a gas station while filling my tank. I'd be careful replying to emails from a gas station in the middle of a flame-war ? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
