Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
Good post. It's time to be a realist. I read Jobs' essay as laying out his thinking reasonably clearly, but with some slanting -- probably this is just the way he is, remember the "reality-distortion field" after all. In particular, I'd have a little more respect for him without the distortions -- eg: "What they don’t say is that almost all this video is also available in a more modern format, H.264, and viewable on iPhones, iPods and iPads. YouTube, with an estimated 40% of the web’s video, shines in an app bundled on all Apple mobile devices, with the iPad offering perhaps the best YouTube discovery and viewing experience ever. Add to this video from Vimeo, Netflix, Facebook, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, ESPN, NPR, Time, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Sports Illustrated, People, National Geographic, and many, many others. iPhone, iPod and iPad users aren’t missing much video." I just checked, and my iPhone still doesn't play any NYTimes video, which has been a major disappointment for me for some time now I can only hope that Jobs is right and that Apple's pressure towards (presumably) more reliable video standards will eventually induce outfits like the Times to provide video in a different format. Meanwhile, in the real world, I'm still missing out on something I want. I've written to the Times to request a different video format, I guess that's what I can do, but last I heard from my nephew, who works as a video producer for NYT, that any changes won't be very immediate. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmb...@gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig On Apr 29, 2010, at 1:17 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: I think the source of whatever disagreements are being had in this thread stem from a tendency for people to misperceive the nature of the world they actually have to deal with day to day, and their ability to make any real quantum change in it's nature. This is driven by the seemingly inescapable sense that "men ought to be better than this" but simply aren't, coupled with their own inability do do much about even themselves, never mind everyone else. One of the reactions to this phenomenon that I see people exhibit frequently, is to imagine a better world, and then try to live their lives as though the world was more like the better one they imagine. My personal opinion is that this is a fools game. Usually what actually transpires, is that being unable to produce any real substantive change themselves, they often latch onto certain causes, and then pursue them to extremes which would shame all but the best of saints. In doing so, they cannot help to implicate and alienate a great many people for "not doing enough" toward their particular cause. The net result is a kind of moral finger pointing usually reserved for religious folk who say but don't do. Now apparently many people feel that Steve Jobs ought to be behaving much more in accordance with the benevolence and altruism that their perception of "the world that ought to be" requires, and are disappointed that he doesn't. I call to witness all the claims of his lack of consideration for "what developers want" claiming that instead he is simply focused on the bottom line. I suppose in the world that ought to be, heads of corporations would be free to pursue such lofty goals at will, while the masses admired him for all he aspired to do. But we live in the real world, not "the world that ought to be", and in that real world, people pay Steve Jobs a lot of money. Those people expect him to do one particular job. That job is to make Apple as profitable, in the near term and in the long term, as he can possible make it. Most of the time he can accomplish this by accommodating as many end users and developers as possible, but this is not always the case. Sometimes in the world that is, you have to take from Peter to pay Paul. Peter's friends will undoubtedly feel angst at this, but then Paul's friends would feel no less angst should the transaction not have occurred. So my point here is that trying to live your live in "the world that ought to be" is fine up until the point that you begin to require of others to do the same. If imaging such a world motivates you to be a better person in the real one, excellent. We need more of you. Just know that my version of "the world that ought to be" is likely to be on may points contrary to yours. We aren't going to get along very well requiring each other to conform to each other's dreams and visions. Instead, we ought to resign ourselves to figuring out how the real world works, and then do our best to live in that world while not compromising our own personal principles, or encroaching on anyone else's rights or freedoms. I often tell starry eyed young people with hearts full of hope recently deferred, "There is 'The World That Is' and there is 'The Wor
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
On Apr 29, 2010, at 1:33 PM, Björnke von Gierke wrote: It's funny to read the replies in regards to the "advertisement" on apples page. Steven knows exactly what he's doing, and getting the internet to spin in tune with his demands is as easy as posting a slightly warped "factsheet" about how it's not at all about power, or making a loser out of someone. And all that just by saying "We do not want anyone to have power over developers", happily dropping the "anyone else" and "over OUR developers" under the table. Of course cross platform tools increase the lag of uptake on new technology, and they always look awkward (yes, Rev does look awkward on all platforms). But then, they allow developers to produce one product, and get it to customers on several platforms, nice examples for that are quicktime, itunes or safari. In the end, vanilla C++ is cross platform too. So who is losing when one platform forbids cross platform developers? Not the platform, as long as it has some monopoly heft. Steven has been on the wrong end of that weapon quite a few times, so he'll know when to wield it effectively, as well as how bad the press can get, if the weapons bang is heard too loud. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
I actually had the opportunity (well obligation seeing I was one of the crew on a United States warship at the time) to visit Sydney, and being a young sailor who visited nude beaches every chance I could get, I spent a couple hours there. It was quite beautiful, even then. It may no longer be a nude beach, and from the photos it looks a great deal more developed than it was back then. It took some doing to get there. Now that I've "come to my senses" (which may not necessarily be a good thing) I don't visit nude beaches anymore. And given the apparent effect that entropy has had on my physique, I suspect those who frequent nude beaches these days are thankful about this turn of events. LOL! Bob On Apr 29, 2010, at 11:49 AM, Devin Asay wrote: > > On Apr 29, 2010, at 12:31 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: > >> On 29/04/2010 20:20, Bob Sneidar wrote: >>> Yes, that was what they called it. I believe that if real Turquoise could >>> speak, it would express vehement dismay for the association with the actual >>> color Apple used. :-) >>> >> >> More a virulent, vaguely polluted, tropical lagoon sort of colour. > > The official name of the color was "Bondi Blue", supposedly named for the > color of the water at this beach in Oz: > > http://www.hempelfamily.com/bondi_to_bronti.htm > > And you could even see the computer's innards under the "water"! > > Devin > > Devin Asay > Humanities Technology and Research Support Center > Brigham Young University > > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
Right. I was supporting your point there. :-) Bob On Apr 29, 2010, at 11:24 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: > On 29/04/2010 20:17, Bob Sneidar wrote: >> >> >> Bob >> >> > > Dear Bob, > I am well aware how the real world works. > > Knowing that doesn't stop me from imagining that it > might be a shade (just a shade) better than it is. > > I also pointed out my belief that, while people do do > many, seemingly, altruistic things; more often than > not, when "tummys start rumbling" altruism tends to > be set aside while the plate is filled. > > I am no better than the next person: having put my Devawriter Pro > on hold for 2 weeks while I interview potential kids for my > language school. It is the language school than fills the plate, > not the programming. > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
On Apr 29, 2010, at 12:31 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: > On 29/04/2010 20:20, Bob Sneidar wrote: >> Yes, that was what they called it. I believe that if real Turquoise could >> speak, it would express vehement dismay for the association with the actual >> color Apple used. :-) >> > > More a virulent, vaguely polluted, tropical lagoon sort of colour. The official name of the color was "Bondi Blue", supposedly named for the color of the water at this beach in Oz: http://www.hempelfamily.com/bondi_to_bronti.htm And you could even see the computer's innards under the "water"! Devin Devin Asay Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham Young University ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
On 29/04/2010 20:33, Björnke von Gierke wrote: Of course cross platform tools increase the lag of uptake on new technology, and they always look awkward (yes, Rev does look awkward on all platforms). But then, they allow developers to produce one product, and get it to customers on several platforms, I will always be grateful to RunRev (despite what I have written about its second-class Linux offering) for allowing me to develop a Mac/Win tool for Sanskrit input; it took an awful lot of blood, sweat and tears, and the thought of having to do that twice (i.e. once for Mac and once for Win) gives me the shudders. A while back (1999) I developed something with Hypercard for Mac and then the whole thing all over again for Windows using Toolbook . . . . . . never again he cries, ripping off his leopardskin and lolloping off into the jungle to wrestles with a bear. However, it would have been lovely to have managed it for Linux as well . . . :) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
On 29/04/2010 20:20, Bob Sneidar wrote: Yes, that was what they called it. I believe that if real Turquoise could speak, it would express vehement dismay for the association with the actual color Apple used. :-) More a virulent, vaguely polluted, tropical lagoon sort of colour. When the original G3 iMacs came out I thought that the design was jolly good but the colours were foul and infantile. I was extremely lucky to get a brand new G3 second version Smoke-grey slot-loader which is still doing sterling service, largely as a DVD and CD player, at the front of my school. The turquoise "horror" came about because my father had need of a Mac as a backup for his Open University studies and I was offered it for £10 in a Pawnshop in Dundee: maxed out the RAM, shoved a 40 GB hard drive in it: installed 10.3 on it when my G4 went 'up' to 10.4 and, although glacially slow when more than one App is running, it does the trick both for Dad and me. Everytime I see the 'beast' I just Thank the gods of rock and roll that I didn't end up with a "spotty dog" . . . :) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
On 29/04/2010 20:17, Bob Sneidar wrote: Bob Dear Bob, I am well aware how the real world works. Knowing that doesn't stop me from imagining that it might be a shade (just a shade) better than it is. I also pointed out my belief that, while people do do many, seemingly, altruistic things; more often than not, when "tummys start rumbling" altruism tends to be set aside while the plate is filled. I am no better than the next person: having put my Devawriter Pro on hold for 2 weeks while I interview potential kids for my language school. It is the language school than fills the plate, not the programming. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
yes... Apple's "actual" response. Thank you. Another realist. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
Thank you... Well said. Finally a realist! ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
It's funny to read the replies in regards to the "advertisement" on apples page. Steven knows exactly what he's doing, and getting the internet to spin in tune with his demands is as easy as posting a slightly warped "factsheet" about how it's not at all about power, or making a loser out of someone. And all that just by saying "We do not want anyone to have power over developers", happily dropping the "anyone else" and "over OUR developers" under the table. Of course cross platform tools increase the lag of uptake on new technology, and they always look awkward (yes, Rev does look awkward on all platforms). But then, they allow developers to produce one product, and get it to customers on several platforms, nice examples for that are quicktime, itunes or safari. In the end, vanilla C++ is cross platform too. So who is losing when one platform forbids cross platform developers? Not the platform, as long as it has some monopoly heft. Steven has been on the wrong end of that weapon quite a few times, so he'll know when to wield it effectively, as well as how bad the press can get, if the weapons bang is heard too loud. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
Really nice post, Bob. Thanks. Best, Jerry Daniels Use tRev's buy link during your free trial to get 20% off: http://reveditor.com/tag/shouldiswitch On Apr 29, 2010, at 12:17 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > I think the source of whatever disagreements are being had in this thread > stem from a tendency for people to misperceive the nature of the world they > actually have to deal with day to day, and their ability to make any real > quantum change in it's nature. This is driven by the seemingly inescapable > sense that "men ought to be better than this" but simply aren't, coupled with > their own inability do do much about even themselves, never mind everyone > else. > > One of the reactions to this phenomenon that I see people exhibit frequently, > is to imagine a better world, and then try to live their lives as though the > world was more like the better one they imagine. My personal opinion is that > this is a fools game. Usually what actually transpires, is that being unable > to produce any real substantive change themselves, they often latch onto > certain causes, and then pursue them to extremes which would shame all but > the best of saints. In doing so, they cannot help to implicate and alienate a > great many people for "not doing enough" toward their particular cause. The > net result is a kind of moral finger pointing usually reserved for religious > folk who say but don't do. > > Now apparently many people feel that Steve Jobs ought to be behaving much > more in accordance with the benevolence and altruism that their perception of > "the world that ought to be" requires, and are disappointed that he doesn't. > I call to witness all the claims of his lack of consideration for "what > developers want" claiming that instead he is simply focused on the bottom > line. > > I suppose in the world that ought to be, heads of corporations would be free > to pursue such lofty goals at will, while the masses admired him for all he > aspired to do. But we live in the real world, not "the world that ought to > be", and in that real world, people pay Steve Jobs a lot of money. Those > people expect him to do one particular job. That job is to make Apple as > profitable, in the near term and in the long term, as he can possible make > it. Most of the time he can accomplish this by accommodating as many end > users and developers as possible, but this is not always the case. Sometimes > in the world that is, you have to take from Peter to pay Paul. Peter's > friends will undoubtedly feel angst at this, but then Paul's friends would > feel no less angst should the transaction not have occurred. > > So my point here is that trying to live your live in "the world that ought to > be" is fine up until the point that you begin to require of others to do the > same. If imaging such a world motivates you to be a better person in the real > one, excellent. We need more of you. Just know that my version of "the world > that ought to be" is likely to be on may points contrary to yours. We aren't > going to get along very well requiring each other to conform to each other's > dreams and visions. > > Instead, we ought to resign ourselves to figuring out how the real world > works, and then do our best to live in that world while not compromising our > own personal principles, or encroaching on anyone else's rights or freedoms. > I often tell starry eyed young people with hearts full of hope recently > deferred, "There is 'The World That Is' and there is 'The World That Ought To > Be.' You can only live in 'The World That Is.'" > > Bob > > > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
Yes, that was what they called it. I believe that if real Turquoise could speak, it would express vehement dismay for the association with the actual color Apple used. :-) Bob On Apr 29, 2010, at 9:56 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: > On 29/04/2010 19:40, Bob Sneidar wrote: >> I suspect that anyone who has to have a newer, bigger fridge every year >> either just love having a newer, bigger fridge, or didn't plan very well, >> and continue to make that mistake every year. >> >> We still have an original iMac (the ugliest green ever to ooze from the >> warped minds of seriously disturbed designers in the history of man) running >> OS 8.5.1, and doing exactly what we got it to do. >> >> Bob >> >> > I have a turquoise one of those over with Mum and Dad running OS 10.3.9 (the > computer, > not M & D) for when I visit. > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
I think the source of whatever disagreements are being had in this thread stem from a tendency for people to misperceive the nature of the world they actually have to deal with day to day, and their ability to make any real quantum change in it's nature. This is driven by the seemingly inescapable sense that "men ought to be better than this" but simply aren't, coupled with their own inability do do much about even themselves, never mind everyone else. One of the reactions to this phenomenon that I see people exhibit frequently, is to imagine a better world, and then try to live their lives as though the world was more like the better one they imagine. My personal opinion is that this is a fools game. Usually what actually transpires, is that being unable to produce any real substantive change themselves, they often latch onto certain causes, and then pursue them to extremes which would shame all but the best of saints. In doing so, they cannot help to implicate and alienate a great many people for "not doing enough" toward their particular cause. The net result is a kind of moral finger pointing usually reserved for religious folk who say but don't do. Now apparently many people feel that Steve Jobs ought to be behaving much more in accordance with the benevolence and altruism that their perception of "the world that ought to be" requires, and are disappointed that he doesn't. I call to witness all the claims of his lack of consideration for "what developers want" claiming that instead he is simply focused on the bottom line. I suppose in the world that ought to be, heads of corporations would be free to pursue such lofty goals at will, while the masses admired him for all he aspired to do. But we live in the real world, not "the world that ought to be", and in that real world, people pay Steve Jobs a lot of money. Those people expect him to do one particular job. That job is to make Apple as profitable, in the near term and in the long term, as he can possible make it. Most of the time he can accomplish this by accommodating as many end users and developers as possible, but this is not always the case. Sometimes in the world that is, you have to take from Peter to pay Paul. Peter's friends will undoubtedly feel angst at this, but then Paul's friends would feel no less angst should the transaction not have occurred. So my point here is that trying to live your live in "the world that ought to be" is fine up until the point that you begin to require of others to do the same. If imaging such a world motivates you to be a better person in the real one, excellent. We need more of you. Just know that my version of "the world that ought to be" is likely to be on may points contrary to yours. We aren't going to get along very well requiring each other to conform to each other's dreams and visions. Instead, we ought to resign ourselves to figuring out how the real world works, and then do our best to live in that world while not compromising our own personal principles, or encroaching on anyone else's rights or freedoms. I often tell starry eyed young people with hearts full of hope recently deferred, "There is 'The World That Is' and there is 'The World That Ought To Be.' You can only live in 'The World That Is.'" Bob ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Jeff Massung wrote: > > Most importantly, as it likely pertains to Rev and other middle-ware >> developers working with Apple on their TOS: >> >> >> "We know from painful experience that letting a third party layer of >> software come between the platform and the developer ultimately results in >> sub-standard apps and hinders the enhancement and progress of the >> platform. >> If developers grow dependent on third party development libraries and >> tools, >> they can only take advantage of platform enhancements if and when the >> third >> party chooses to adopt the new features. We cannot be at the mercy of a >> third party deciding if and when they will make our enhancements available >> to our developers. >> >> This becomes even worse if the third party is supplying a cross platform >> development tool. The third party may not adopt enhancements from one >> platform unless they are available on all of their supported platforms. >> Hence developers only have access to the lowest common denominator set of >> features. Again, we cannot accept an outcome where developers are blocked >> from using our innovations and enhancements because they are not available >> on our competitor’s platforms." >> >> Read into it what you will. >> > > True, most Java-based apps look pretty crappy, but that's not because Swing > doesn't exist but merely because many Java developers are too lazy to use it > well. > > And it's also true (at least last time I used it) that Flash is almost > entirely devoid of native-looking controls, so it's well nigh impossible to > make truly HIG-conformant apps with it unless you carefully craft every > control yourself. > > But tools like Rev and even RealBASIC are used by people who care about how > well their apps conform to the GUI conventions of their target platforms, > and make a good effort to do so. > > Lumping all high-level multi-platform tools together is shortsighted. > > I don't think (many) people would argue those points, but they are also completely irrelevant. Apple (Jobs?) has already made their decision and the justification given is one that could just as easily be applied to RevMobile. That's all I was pointing out with the quote. Jeff M. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
On 29/04/2010 19:40, Bob Sneidar wrote: I suspect that anyone who has to have a newer, bigger fridge every year either just love having a newer, bigger fridge, or didn't plan very well, and continue to make that mistake every year. We still have an original iMac (the ugliest green ever to ooze from the warped minds of seriously disturbed designers in the history of man) running OS 8.5.1, and doing exactly what we got it to do. Bob I have a turquoise one of those over with Mum and Dad running OS 10.3.9 (the computer, not M & D) for when I visit. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
I suspect that anyone who has to have a newer, bigger fridge every year either just love having a newer, bigger fridge, or didn't plan very well, and continue to make that mistake every year. We still have an original iMac (the ugliest green ever to ooze from the warped minds of seriously disturbed designers in the history of man) running OS 8.5.1, and doing exactly what we got it to do. Bob On Apr 29, 2010, at 6:50 AM, Jeffrey Massung wrote: > While they still are required to "fill the fridge" - and do want that ;-) - > they are also fine with not having the funds to keep buying a new, bigger > fridge every year. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
Jeff Massung wrote: Most importantly, as it likely pertains to Rev and other middle-ware developers working with Apple on their TOS: "We know from painful experience that letting a third party layer of software come between the platform and the developer ultimately results in sub-standard apps and hinders the enhancement and progress of the platform. If developers grow dependent on third party development libraries and tools, they can only take advantage of platform enhancements if and when the third party chooses to adopt the new features. We cannot be at the mercy of a third party deciding if and when they will make our enhancements available to our developers. This becomes even worse if the third party is supplying a cross platform development tool. The third party may not adopt enhancements from one platform unless they are available on all of their supported platforms. Hence developers only have access to the lowest common denominator set of features. Again, we cannot accept an outcome where developers are blocked from using our innovations and enhancements because they are not available on our competitor’s platforms." Read into it what you will. True, most Java-based apps look pretty crappy, but that's not because Swing doesn't exist but merely because many Java developers are too lazy to use it well. And it's also true (at least last time I used it) that Flash is almost entirely devoid of native-looking controls, so it's well nigh impossible to make truly HIG-conformant apps with it unless you carefully craft every control yourself. But tools like Rev and even RealBASIC are used by people who care about how well their apps conform to the GUI conventions of their target platforms, and make a good effort to do so. Lumping all high-level multi-platform tools together is shortsighted. Moreover, in the vertical markets my company builds apps for, we're pretty much the only vendor addressing the Mac at all. If not for the cost-effectiveness of multi-platform RAD tools, there would not be a Mac version in those categories from anyone. Win developers simply don't bother doubling their development expense just to gain an additional 10% market potential. We build on Mac because we enjoy it, and subsidize it with proceeds earned from our Windows customers. The availability of cross-platform tools is one of the reasons the Mac has much software at all. Can you imagine how few games there would be if game developers didn't use their own cross-platform engines? Mr. Jobs may prefer that the world drop their plans for viability and write everything for OS X's 10% market share in Objective-C. But more sober people realize that will happen on a timeline somewhere between hell freezing and pigs flying. In the meantime, apps built for OS X with Rev look and feel a heckuva lot better on a Mac than Win apps running under Bootcamp. And when one consider the cost-effectiveness of development options, whether he recognizes it or not that's really what he's asking for there: the continued marginalization of Apple's user base. Moreover, in spite of his best efforts both desktop OSes and mobile OSes are becoming increasingly commoditized. But that's a whole other thread -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
On 29/04/2010 18:26, Jeff Massung wrote: Sorry for missing it (tone sucks in email). ;-) I haven't really been following any of the "Steve Jobs" or new iP* TOS agreement threads, but I do need to say I agree with most everything you stated. I don't know when this was posted to Apple's site and if it's already been discussed here already, but Jobs posted a letter to the community detailing his thoughts on Flash, which can also be read into the new TOS: www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/?AID=10480621&PID=3821802&SID=188wkahuchtc7 Most importantly, as it likely pertains to Rev and other middle-ware developers working with Apple on their TOS: "We know from painful experience that letting a third party layer of software come between the platform and the developer ultimately results in sub-standard apps and hinders the enhancement and progress of the platform. If developers grow dependent on third party development libraries and tools, they can only take advantage of platform enhancements if and when the third party chooses to adopt the new features. We cannot be at the mercy of a third party deciding if and when they will make our enhancements available to our developers. This becomes even worse if the third party is supplying a cross platform development tool. The third party may not adopt enhancements from one platform unless they are available on all of their supported platforms. Hence developers only have access to the lowest common denominator set of features. Again, we cannot accept an outcome where developers are blocked from using our innovations and enhancements because they are not available on our competitor’s platforms." Read into it what you will. 50-50 I would say; or "enlightened self-interest". However you cut it, Steve Jobs is not a raving philanthropist. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
On 29/04/2010 18:16, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: I was being facetious (thought that was obvious). The level of anger voiced in this thread certainly exposes selfish profit centered motives. That fact alone needed to be exposed before things got too obnoxious. My bet is that mr jobs would love to keep the development and source as open as possible. My bet is that security risks made this openness impossible. The reputation apple products share is too valuable a commodity to mess with (even if that ends up making a few thousand xtalk old farts loose their cool). When the tantrum reached such a pitch that people started to deride basic economic truths I had to step in and play the court jester. It is especially monstrous that a person would brag about how easy it is to keep malware out of windows machines. It is like a coal miner standing outside a cancer ward yelling "cancer happens to the weak". What I really don't understand is how the rev community self justifies the hypocrisy of the argument that apple is doing this out of selfishness when the truth is that rev and all xtalk development platforms support for graphics and motion video is so 1980s as to erase most of the advantage of the iphone ipad platform. So where does the fault really lay? If the ipad market really benefited from staying open to a community that could in no way produce ipad worthy user experiences, than jobs would never have closed it down. Quality control is a big marketing factor. Branding is effected by the consumer experience at the apple store. I must say here that the app store was designed for a few hundred apps and absolutely sucks at exposing tens of thousands of apps to the matched consumer. It works for selling knicknacks but a lot of apps have matured into full work tools (and apple is still selling them in their bloomingdales boutique). Jack hammers make for awkward shelf mates next to gold strappy pumps. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution I should like to offer my most abject apologies to all on the RunRev Use-List for having precipitated another "Randy Rant". sincerely, Richmond. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
Sorry for missing it (tone sucks in email). ;-) I haven't really been following any of the "Steve Jobs" or new iP* TOS agreement threads, but I do need to say I agree with most everything you stated. I don't know when this was posted to Apple's site and if it's already been discussed here already, but Jobs posted a letter to the community detailing his thoughts on Flash, which can also be read into the new TOS: www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/?AID=10480621&PID=3821802&SID=188wkahuchtc7 Most importantly, as it likely pertains to Rev and other middle-ware developers working with Apple on their TOS: "We know from painful experience that letting a third party layer of software come between the platform and the developer ultimately results in sub-standard apps and hinders the enhancement and progress of the platform. If developers grow dependent on third party development libraries and tools, they can only take advantage of platform enhancements if and when the third party chooses to adopt the new features. We cannot be at the mercy of a third party deciding if and when they will make our enhancements available to our developers. This becomes even worse if the third party is supplying a cross platform development tool. The third party may not adopt enhancements from one platform unless they are available on all of their supported platforms. Hence developers only have access to the lowest common denominator set of features. Again, we cannot accept an outcome where developers are blocked from using our innovations and enhancements because they are not available on our competitor’s platforms." Read into it what you will. Jeff M. On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 10:16 AM, Randall Lee Reetz < rand...@randallreetz.com> wrote: > I was being facetious (thought that was obvious). ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
I was being facetious (thought that was obvious). The level of anger voiced in this thread certainly exposes selfish profit centered motives. That fact alone needed to be exposed before things got too obnoxious. My bet is that mr jobs would love to keep the development and source as open as possible. My bet is that security risks made this openness impossible. The reputation apple products share is too valuable a commodity to mess with (even if that ends up making a few thousand xtalk old farts loose their cool). When the tantrum reached such a pitch that people started to deride basic economic truths I had to step in and play the court jester. It is especially monstrous that a person would brag about how easy it is to keep malware out of windows machines. It is like a coal miner standing outside a cancer ward yelling "cancer happens to the weak". What I really don't understand is how the rev community self justifies the hypocrisy of the argument that apple is doing this out of selfishness when the truth is that rev and all xtalk development platforms support for graphics and motion video is so 1980s as to erase most of the advantage of the iphone ipad platform. So where does the fault really lay? If the ipad market really benefited from staying open to a community that could in no way produce ipad worthy user experiences, than jobs would never have closed it down. Quality control is a big marketing factor. Branding is effected by the consumer experience at the apple store. I must say here that the app store was designed for a few hundred apps and absolutely sucks at exposing tens of thousands of apps to the matched consumer. It works for selling knicknacks but a lot of apps have matured into full work tools (and apple is still selling them in their bloomingdales boutique). Jack hammers make for awkward shelf mates next to gold strappy pumps. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
On Apr 29, 2010, at 3:45 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: > On 29/04/2010 08:38, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: >> Apple is in it for the money? Really? I thought they were a non-profit >> like Microsoft and Google. Stupid me. > > Yes, really! They are in the profit for it as the Linux people are also, only > their model is different. > > Nobody is in the computer business out of sheer love for humanity; there is > always some other > motivation; and sooner or later it comes down to the fact that the fridge > doesn't fill itself. Yes, but there are the occasional groups, companies, and individuals who are content doing something that has a social benefit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract_theory). While they still are required to "fill the fridge" - and do want that ;-) - they are also fine with not having the funds to keep buying a new, bigger fridge every year. Then there's always the people who really just end up loving what they do... Turning a profit is wonderful and necessary to keep the ball rolling, but usually companies that have profit as the primary bullet point on their mission statement isn't going to survive long-term. But, sadly, this is rare. Jeff M.___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
On 29/04/2010 08:38, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: Apple is in it for the money? Really? I thought they were a non-profit like Microsoft and Google. Stupid me. Yes, really! They are in the profit for it as the Linux people are also, only their model is different. Nobody is in the computer business out of sheer love for humanity; there is always some other motivation; and sooner or later it comes down to the fact that the fridge doesn't fill itself. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
Apple is in it for the money? Really? I thought they were a non-profit like Microsoft and Google. Stupid me. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
Story has a way to repeat itself. Once upon a time I used a Mac for work and leisure. I read MacWorld, MacUser and MacAddict and for sure learned to love the company and the philosophy that create the "Mac way". But then, the inconformity of Mac culture drive itself to endless comparations of itself with Windows users. In fact, the most detailed articles comparing Windows and Mac OS appeared in MacWorld and MacUser. Could you believe that i learned more about Windows reading Macintosh magazines than many Windows users learn reading their OS documentation? When i had the opportunity to sit down with a Windows user to view his Windows PC, i knew more about the Windows GUI than himself. All this knowledge directly from Mac magazines. The tipping point and warning signal that i have to change from Mac to Windows was an infamous ad with an Intel processor on the back of a snail... I have to thanks the Mac culture for educating me in many computing task, like frecuent data backup, keeping organized my files in neatly labeled folders and be careful about viruses. (At the moment of writing this, I still have not infected any of my computers with a virus) Time have proved that i make the right choice when i changed platforms and skip the whole PowerPC and complete list of propietary interface external devices "experience". Today you could buy a Mac and, if you wish, run Windows and Linux on the same machine using cross platform hardware and if you are enough motivated you could do otherwise... So, what this history teach me about iPad future? Apple changes, and changes always in the direction of profits. Do you want to be 100% accurate about future Apple developments in software and hardware? Look first at the directions where profits are blowing. Could you feel the breeze?... ;-) Alejandro -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-GameOver-Mr-Jobs-tp2062566p2074872.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
Will someone please come right out and list the ways that their own life is going to suck now that mr jobs excluded rev from the blessed development environments list? Lets personalized this paranoia and frustration. Like criss rock said, "I haven't seen white people this pissed off since they cancelled M*A*S*H". ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
2010/4/26 Thomas McGrath III : > Can we put this to sleep now?? Why the words "sleep" or "sleeping" are all the time back in this list. Is it a bunch of marmots here? -- -Zryip TheSlug- wish you the best! 8) http://www.aslugontheroad.co.cc ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
Can we put this to sleep now?? On Apr 26, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: > On 26/04/2010 20:44, Bob Sneidar wrote: >> GAWD you guys! Everyone loves the underdog, that is until he succeeds, and >> then he becomes Darth Vader to everyone. >> >> Every despot starts out at least thinking he is making the world a better >> place. But then, supposing you are the "benevolent dictator", what do you do >> with all the other guys who also want to make the world a better place, but >> their idea of better is the polar opposite of yours, and they are >> demonstrating (sometimes violently) outside your office building? Well yer >> gonna hafta round em up, which is going to piss off their friends and >> family, who heretofore may not have exactly been against you, but now they >> sure are! So you have more and more people who disagree with you, so you >> have to do something about them now. Before you know it the whole country is >> against you, and you were only trying to make things better! Oh the >> injustice! >> >> I'm just glad Steve Jobs is not trying to take over the world. (Is he?) >> >> Bob >> >> > > Every dog has his day; then he gets rounded up by the dog pound people and > (if he's lucky) gets humanely put to sleep; because, otherwise, he gets too > big for his > boots and h*mps all the other dogs. > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
On 26/04/2010 20:58, Marian Petrides wrote: Only the part of the world that actually INTERESTS him. ;-) On Apr 26, 2010, at 12:56 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: I'm just glad Steve Jobs is not trying to take over the world. (Is he?) Richmond Mathewson did not write the above: Bob S did. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
Only the part of the world that actually INTERESTS him. ;-) On Apr 26, 2010, at 12:56 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: >> I'm just glad Steve Jobs is not trying to take over the world. (Is he?) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
On 26/04/2010 20:44, Bob Sneidar wrote: GAWD you guys! Everyone loves the underdog, that is until he succeeds, and then he becomes Darth Vader to everyone. Every despot starts out at least thinking he is making the world a better place. But then, supposing you are the "benevolent dictator", what do you do with all the other guys who also want to make the world a better place, but their idea of better is the polar opposite of yours, and they are demonstrating (sometimes violently) outside your office building? Well yer gonna hafta round em up, which is going to piss off their friends and family, who heretofore may not have exactly been against you, but now they sure are! So you have more and more people who disagree with you, so you have to do something about them now. Before you know it the whole country is against you, and you were only trying to make things better! Oh the injustice! I'm just glad Steve Jobs is not trying to take over the world. (Is he?) Bob Every dog has his day; then he gets rounded up by the dog pound people and (if he's lucky) gets humanely put to sleep; because, otherwise, he gets too big for his boots and h*mps all the other dogs. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
GAWD you guys! Everyone loves the underdog, that is until he succeeds, and then he becomes Darth Vader to everyone. Every despot starts out at least thinking he is making the world a better place. But then, supposing you are the "benevolent dictator", what do you do with all the other guys who also want to make the world a better place, but their idea of better is the polar opposite of yours, and they are demonstrating (sometimes violently) outside your office building? Well yer gonna hafta round em up, which is going to piss off their friends and family, who heretofore may not have exactly been against you, but now they sure are! So you have more and more people who disagree with you, so you have to do something about them now. Before you know it the whole country is against you, and you were only trying to make things better! Oh the injustice! I'm just glad Steve Jobs is not trying to take over the world. (Is he?) Bob On Apr 23, 2010, at 12:46 PM, Paul D. DeRocco wrote: >> From: Richmond Mathewson >> >> After the famous "1984" commercial by Apple it is all rather sad to see >> Steve Jobs in the role of all-knowing, all-seeing dictator. >> >> The fact that some engineers have managed to crash Android through >> the Iron Curtain has got to be good; and, I hope, will make Steve Jobs >> "go for a Gorbachev" rather than the North Korean option. > > You mean, Mikhail Gorbasteve or Kim Jobs Il? > > -- > > Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco > Paulmailto:pdero...@ix.netcom.com > > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Bad jokes [was: Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs]
On 24/04/2010 00:00, François Chaplais wrote: This one was from communist Eastern Germany. Do you know why toilet paper is called "Stalin's Revenge" there? because if can't make you heart red, it certainly makes your ass the right color. I have never tried cleaning a donkey with toilet paper; I suspect if I tried I would end up like yesterday's newspaper: red all over . . . :) Oh; what does one call a Soviet submarine: big, red and full of submariners! ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
On 24/04/2010 19:31, Jeffrey Massung wrote: On Apr 24, 2010, at 7:42 AM, Peter Brigham MD wrote: They call it "duel-boot". Is that a Freudian slip, or just an ordinary one? An ordinary one. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother. Interestingly enough, when I was a boy, my mother actually wore a garment called a slip. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
On Apr 24, 2010, at 7:42 AM, Peter Brigham MD wrote: >> They call it "duel-boot". Is that a Freudian slip, or just an ordinary one? > > An ordinary one. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your > mother. Adding to my random .sig. I actually LOL'ed when I read that. :-) Jeff M.___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
On Apr 23, 2010, at 2:49 PM, Paul D. DeRocco wrote: From: bar...@libero.it Nothing is sacred! You can now run Android and all its programmes on your iPhone! http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/22/android_iphone/ I probably will not be the first with this notice but I can try. They call it "duel-boot". Is that a Freudian slip, or just an ordinary one? An ordinary one. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmb...@gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Bad jokes [was: Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs]
On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 6:56 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote: > > LOL! I only heard that one last week, only it was about moth balls :-) > > > Ah yes, one the whole world can enjoy:-) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Bad jokes [was: Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs]
>> Next, can we do elephant jokes and dead baby jokes? I bet there are people >> here who aren't old enough to remember those. Come to think of it, I'm old >> enough to have forgotten most of them. >> >> > Your not serious are you. My kids come home from school and tell me ALL the > same jokes that we told when I was there age. I'm afraid there are no new > jokes. > > Although I was surprised my kids didn't know 'what do you have if you have a > cricket ball in your left hand, and a cricket ball in your right hand?' - > probably only known by those who have suffered the cultural imposition of > the British Empire. LOL! I only heard that one last week, only it was about moth balls :-) Cheers, Sarah ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Bad jokes [was: Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs]
On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 4:53 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > Next, can we do elephant jokes and dead baby jokes? I bet there are people > here who aren't old enough to remember those. Come to think of it, I'm old > enough to have forgotten most of them. > > Your not serious are you. My kids come home from school and tell me ALL the same jokes that we told when I was there age. I'm afraid there are no new jokes. Although I was surprised my kids didn't know 'what do you have if you have a cricket ball in your left hand, and a cricket ball in your right hand?' - probably only known by those who have suffered the cultural imposition of the British Empire. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Bad jokes [was: Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs]
This one was from communist Eastern Germany. Do you know why toilet paper is called "Stalin's Revenge" there? because if can't make you heart red, it certainly makes your ass the right color. Le 23 avr. 2010 à 22:20, J. Landman Gay a écrit : > :) Reminds me of an old soviet joke from some years ago: > > "Capitalism is the exploitation of one man by another. Communism is exactly > the opposite." > > Which, in turn, reminds me of yet another soviet joke: > > "In the Soviet Union we have freedom of speech, freedom of press, and freedom > of association. In America, they have freedom *after* speech, freedom after > press, and freedom after association." > ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Bad jokes [was: Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs]
Devin Asay wrote: On Apr 23, 2010, at 2:20 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: :) Reminds me of an old soviet joke from some years ago: "Capitalism is the exploitation of one man by another. Communism is exactly the opposite." Which, in turn, reminds me of yet another soviet joke: "In the Soviet Union we have freedom of speech, freedom of press, and freedom of association. In America, they have freedom *after* speech, freedom after press, and freedom after association." Ahhh! Old Soviet Union jokes! Next, can we do elephant jokes and dead baby jokes? I bet there are people here who aren't old enough to remember those. Come to think of it, I'm old enough to have forgotten most of them. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Bad jokes [was: Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs]
Colin Holgate wrote: That version doesn't work quite as well as the way I heard it. You're probably right. My brain is only half here today. It's Friday. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Bad jokes [was: Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs]
On Apr 23, 2010, at 2:20 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > :) Reminds me of an old soviet joke from some years ago: > > "Capitalism is the exploitation of one man by another. Communism is > exactly the opposite." > > Which, in turn, reminds me of yet another soviet joke: > > "In the Soviet Union we have freedom of speech, freedom of press, and > freedom of association. In America, they have freedom *after* speech, > freedom after press, and freedom after association." Ahhh! Old Soviet Union jokes! Question: How can you tell communism is not based on science? Answer: If it were based on science they would have tried it out on dogs first. Devin Devin Asay Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham Young University ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Bad jokes [was: Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs]
On Apr 23, 2010, at 4:20 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > :) Reminds me of an old soviet joke from some years ago: > > "Capitalism is the exploitation of one man by another. Communism is exactly > the opposite." That version doesn't work quite as well as the way I heard it. In your version it sounds like Communism does not have any exploitation in it at all. The version I've heard works better as a play on words: "The difference between capitalism and communism is that in capitalism man exploits man and in communism it's the other way around." ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Bad jokes [was: Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs]
François Chaplais wrote: Reminds me of an old IT joke: Today I have manage to emulate a 4 digit calculator on my DEC-Alpha. Tomorrow I will do the reverse. :) Reminds me of an old soviet joke from some years ago: "Capitalism is the exploitation of one man by another. Communism is exactly the opposite." Which, in turn, reminds me of yet another soviet joke: "In the Soviet Union we have freedom of speech, freedom of press, and freedom of association. In America, they have freedom *after* speech, freedom after press, and freedom after association." -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
On Apr 23, 2010, at 4:04 PM, François Chaplais wrote: > > >Today I have manage to emulate a 4 digit calculator on my DEC-Alpha. > Tomorrow I will do the reverse. A related quote about Seymour Cray: "When he was told that Apple Computer had just bought a Cray to help design the next Apple Macintosh, Cray commented that he had just bought a Macintosh to design the next Cray." ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
Reminds me of an old IT joke: Today I have manage to emulate a 4 digit calculator on my DEC-Alpha. Tomorrow I will do the reverse. chers, François Le 23 avr. 2010 à 19:12, bar...@libero.it a écrit : > > Nothing is sacred! > You can now run Android and all its programmes on your iPhone! > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/22/android_iphone/ > > I probably will not be the first with this notice but I can try. > Barry Barber > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
> From: Richmond Mathewson > > After the famous "1984" commercial by Apple it is all rather sad to see > Steve Jobs in the role of all-knowing, all-seeing dictator. > > The fact that some engineers have managed to crash Android through > the Iron Curtain has got to be good; and, I hope, will make Steve Jobs > "go for a Gorbachev" rather than the North Korean option. You mean, Mikhail Gorbasteve or Kim Jobs Il? -- Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco Paulmailto:pdero...@ix.netcom.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
On 23/04/2010 21:49, Paul D. DeRocco wrote: From: bar...@libero.it Nothing is sacred! You can now run Android and all its programmes on your iPhone! http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/22/android_iphone/ I probably will not be the first with this notice but I can try. They call it "duel-boot". Is that a Freudian slip, or just an ordinary one? After the famous "1984" commercial by Apple it is all rather sad to see Steve Jobs in the role of all-knowing, all-seeing dictator. The fact that some engineers have managed to crash Android through the Iron Curtain has got to be good; and, I hope, will make Steve Jobs "go for a Gorbachev" rather than the North Korean option. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: [OT] GameOver Mr. Jobs
> From: bar...@libero.it > > Nothing is sacred! > You can now run Android and all its programmes on your iPhone! > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/22/android_iphone/ > > I probably will not be the first with this notice but I can try. They call it "duel-boot". Is that a Freudian slip, or just an ordinary one? -- Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco Paulmailto:pdero...@ix.netcom.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
