Re: [OT] Market Share
Hi Troy, I have a new state-of-the-art tablet PC. It is a heavy piece of poorly-designed junk. Until the entire market matures it isn't worth spending much time on IMO Is your TPC a convertible design [essentially a laptop where the screen folds over backwards] or a slate design [no attached keyboard]? If the former, you made the wrong hardware choice, IMO. Why lug a keyboard everywhere when it isn't necessary? And are you running WinXP TPC Edition 2005? If not, you don't have state-of-the-art TPC technology. Edition 2005 includes many improvements over the original TPC Edition. You are faulting the hardware, which is but one example of many hardware vendors' offerings. The essence of the TPC is in the O/S, which is the same on all TPCs (that shipped with or upgraded to, Edition 2005). Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee. from The Triple Foole by John Donne (1572-1631) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
On Jul 12, 2006, at 10:27 AM, Rob Cozens wrote: Is your TPC a convertible design [essentially a laptop where the screen folds over backwards] or a slate design [no attached keyboard]? If the former, you made the wrong hardware choice, IMO. Why lug a keyboard everywhere when it isn't necessary? What can I say? A client had it sent to me because they want to use tablets in some of their stuff. It is a brand new Acer convertible, and it is too stupid to use. The OS is OK. In fact XP on the whole is OK. But the hardware... is crappy. Maybe I should try a slate, but I'll probably wait to see if Apple ever makes one. For one thing, I have WAY too much software investment in OSX software to consider moving to PC for anything other than testing stuff I write. -- Troy RPSystems, Ltd. http://www.rpsystems.net ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
LOL, Dan: Because like my wife's housekeeper, I don't do Windows! But I also no longer bash them. Kudos! Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee. from The Triple Foole by John Donne (1572-1631) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Hi Mark, the reason I asked 'what's the market share for tablet PCs?' (I don't know the answer, either) was simply the title of this thread I can see how my post might appear off topic of the [OT] topic if one hadn't followed the complete thread. By my count, at least three separate discussions took place there. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee. from The Triple Foole by John Donne (1572-1631) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Jim, I would wait until it [TPC technology] became available on the Mac, if it ever did And I have serious doubts that it ever will. :-( * Other than the graphic tablet for touch-screen input, TPC technology is all in the O/S. * The general consensus on this thread seems to be that Steve Jobs is shifting Apple's primary focus toward music players, and that his approach to the computer market emphasizes marketing gimics over new technology. * TPC technology has been on the market for something like four to six years, including a major software update in 2005. If and when Apple competes in this market, they will be way behind. Thus the frustration I feel in being unable to convey the advantages of TPC technology--as I see them--to Mac lovers is somewhat akin to that I felt trying to explain the advantages of a mouse to MS-DOS users--many of whom considered the Mac a toy--20 some years ago. [Two hints: 1. Start with the mouse cursor in one corner of your screen and see how much faster you can move your hand to the diagonal corner with the mouse in the air instead of dragging across a surface. Imagine being able to pick up the mouse and set it down where you want the cursor instead of dragging it. 2. Pick up a pen or pencil,place your hand in the center of your screen, and see how much of the screen real estate you can reach with the tip of the pen(cil) without moving your hand.] The pen is mightier than the mouse! Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee. from The Triple Foole by John Donne (1572-1631) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Rob... From my perspective, given that there were several subdiscussions in this thread, is that Steve Jobs is pursuing his 20 year vision of creating the toaster computer within his niche and that comparing the market share of Apple and MS has no real meaning... Jim on 7/10/06 1:59 PM, Rob Cozens wrote: The general consensus on this thread seems to be that Steve Jobs is shifting Apple's primary focus toward music players, and that his approach to the computer market emphasizes marketing gimics over new technology. -- www.TalentSeeker.ca www.HiringSmart.ca/ns www.KeepingTheBest.ca/ns http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited, 23 Shoal Cove Road, Seabright, Nova Scotia, Canada. B3Z 3A9 Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
On Jul 10, 2006, at 12:59 PM, Rob Cozens wrote: * TPC technology has been on the market for something like four to six years, including a major software update in 2005. If and when Apple competes in this market, they will be way behind. Much like they were with music players. I have a new state-of-the-art tablet PC. It is a heavy piece of poorly-designed junk. Until the entire market matures it isn't worth spending much time on IMO. -- Troy RPSystems, Ltd. http://www.rpsystems.net ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Rob, I didn't mean that I was trying to guide you or anyone back to the topic, it just seemed like an appropriate (if a bit hypothetical) question given the title of the thread. And look! We're now into a fourth discussion :) Best, Mark On 10 Jul 2006, at 16:37, Rob Cozens wrote: Hi Mark, the reason I asked 'what's the market share for tablet PCs?' (I don't know the answer, either) was simply the title of this thread I can see how my post might appear off topic of the [OT] topic if one hadn't followed the complete thread. By my count, at least three separate discussions took place there. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee. from The Triple Foole by John Donne (1572-1631) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
On 7/9/06, Mark Swindell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Niether fanning nor dousing, but I thought this an interesting tidbit. -Mark http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2006/7/8/4569 Interesting, especially when someone sent me this today. http://www.fujitsu.com/us/services/computing/peripherals/scanners/workgroup/fi-5110eoxm.html Look particularly at the System requirements both for the scanner and the supplied Acrobat. I can't remember the last time I saw a 'Mac only' consumer product made by someone other than Apple. Am I dreaming;-) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Very interesting and basically supports the core of this thread... Jim on 7/8/06 9:19 PM, Mark Swindell wrote: Niether fanning nor dousing, but I thought this an interesting tidbit. -Mark http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2006/7/8/4569 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- www.TalentSeeker.ca www.HiringSmart.ca/ns www.KeepingTheBest.ca/ns http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited, 23 Shoal Cove Road, Seabright, Nova Scotia, Canada. B3Z 3A9 Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Thank Intel + BootCamp. Jim Carwardine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Very interesting and basically supports the core of this thread... Jim on 7/8/06 9:19 PM, Mark Swindell wrote: Niether fanning nor dousing, but I thought this an interesting tidbit. -Mark http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2006/7/8/4569 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Jim, Your response to my post could have been written by me -- four years ago. My first personal computer was an original IBM PC. My second was a Mac SE/3O, and I never owned a computer running Windows until I bought a Motion M13OO Tablet PC. When friends asked, should I buy a Mac or a PC ?, my original response was, find the software you need and buy the computer that it runs on. After watching friends' experiences, I amended that to include But most people seem to have an easier time learning how to use a Mac. I would grit my teeth and smile when friends who set out to buy a Mac came home with Circuit City's computer de jour -- and asked me for help when the damn thing crashed. I would smile smugly while watching my son and my brother-in-law, both certified Microsoft engineers, struggle to install a new device on my brother's PC. And I said to myself NO WAY! when Pirates of the Silicon Valley (or a PBS documentary of the same genre) concluded that Apple lost the O/S war when Windows replaced MS/DOS. But times have changed, and I would suggest that every Mac bigot -- to use Dan Shafer's term affectionately -- who believes this is still the state of the Windows platforms should test her/his perception as it applies to today's technology. After 15 years of Mac ownership, I wouldn't buy another Apple computer that doesn't support ink input and profile screen orientation. My keyboard sits in a drawer, and virtually never sees the light of day. The pen is mightier than the mouse! Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee. from The Triple Foole by John Donne (1572-1631) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Rob, I think you'd have to admit that this is a fairly narrow, one- issue view. Essentially, what you're saying is that Windows does tablet, and Mac doesn't. What's the market share for tablet PCs? Not that I mean that we should all ignore tablet PCs, far from it, in fact it illustrates the point that 'computers' is a big field, and there are many small but worthwhile corners in that field. The question is, how many of those corners can a company like RunRev realistically hope to cover? Best, Mark On 9 Jul 2006, at 16:28, Rob Cozens wrote: Jim, Your response to my post could have been written by me -- four years ago. My first personal computer was an original IBM PC. My second was a Mac SE/3O, and I never owned a computer running Windows until I bought a Motion M13OO Tablet PC. When friends asked, should I buy a Mac or a PC ?, my original response was, find the software you need and buy the computer that it runs on. After watching friends' experiences, I amended that to include But most people seem to have an easier time learning how to use a Mac. I would grit my teeth and smile when friends who set out to buy a Mac came home with Circuit City's computer de jour -- and asked me for help when the damn thing crashed. I would smile smugly while watching my son and my brother-in-law, both certified Microsoft engineers, struggle to install a new device on my brother's PC. And I said to myself NO WAY! when Pirates of the Silicon Valley (or a PBS documentary of the same genre) concluded that Apple lost the O/S war when Windows replaced MS/DOS. But times have changed, and I would suggest that every Mac bigot -- to use Dan Shafer's term affectionately -- who believes this is still the state of the Windows platforms should test her/his perception as it applies to today's technology. After 15 years of Mac ownership, I wouldn't buy another Apple computer that doesn't support ink input and profile screen orientation. My keyboard sits in a drawer, and virtually never sees the light of day. The pen is mightier than the mouse! Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee. from The Triple Foole by John Donne (1572-1631) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Mark, et al: I think you'd have to admit that this is a fairly narrow, one-issue view. Essentially, what you're saying is that Windows does tablet, and Mac doesn't. I don't think so: * My TPC is just as stable--perhaps more so--than the Mac OSX boxes I'm running * I've replaced the hard drive and added third-party hardware software drivers with no problem * Since I learned the layout of Win XP, I find working with it is just as easy as working in Mac OSX * Third-party software seems to me to be OS consistent in layout and termanology The message I was trying to convery was, If one is a Mac bigot whose opinions are not based on an assessment of current Windows technology--including the TPC--one would be well advised to reassess one's position. -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee. from The Triple Foole by John Donne (1572-1631) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Mark, et al: What's the market share for tablet PCs? I brought up the TPC in response to the assertion that Apple technology was light years ahead of Windows, and I don't have a clue as to the TPC's current market share... but I am willing to bet it will grow to make it the platform of choice over time. And possibly it has a larger market share than the Classic Macs for which so many people want updated Revolution support? Which has a growing market share; which is in its death throes? And how large a share does it have to get before Rev developers find it necessary to add the disclaimer this application is not TPC compliant to software they distribute for windows? When virtually every other WinXP application accepts input from the TPC input panel without a problem? Microsoft provides sample C#, VB, VB.net source code showing how to program ink input manipulation and other TPC features. The longer it takes RRLtd to provide TPC compliance, the greater the share of the market that will be lost to C# VB developers. -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee. from The Triple Foole by John Donne (1572-1631) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Bill Marriott wrote: Thank Intel + BootCamp. End users can thank Intel and BootCamp, but for Mac developers nothing could be more of a threat. Since the beginning of Macdom, writing for the Mac was a choice you had to make, often a fairly expensive choice. But a lot of developers bit the bullet and did it anyway, and they developed loyal fans, and all was good, and the fan mail helped make up for the unusually high overhead of committing to the Mac marketplace. Then along came BootCamp, and eventually a variant which further blurs the lines between Mac and Windows apps. When that version arrives, there will be little incentive to support Mac developers -- and that includes cross platform developers like most of us here, since users can run VB-native apps right inside of an OS X window. Welcome to Macintosh. Thank you for your two decades of sacrifice. Now please excuse us as we make it easy for non-Mac developers to walk in and destroy your business without lifting a finger... -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
It's possible you're right. But, I think this was the only way for them to get a certain, very large, group of people to even consider the Apple operating system. (There's essentially no Apple hardware anymore as we knew it.) The MacBook is the first Apple product I've considered purchasing in a very long time. That's mainly because it's a decent Windows laptop for the price. My first real PC was a Macintosh Plus. I've owned several Macs since then and was a true fan. But, you can only take so many arbitrary decisions from a company before you throw in the towel. Apple killed very many good products -- the most egregious murder being HyperCard. Oh, how much did you want to love it, hearing how the licensing requirement was that it be distributed free with every Macintosh forever! Oh, but they weaseled out of that somehow, didn't they? It took Apple forever to move to commodity hardware. Oh, how many hundreds of dollars did I spend on special monitors and special hard disks and special keyboards and special mice. And what a lovely drawer full of ADB cables and whatnot I have to show for it. Apple employs business practices that, if used by Microsoft, would have people crying foul and bringing anti-trust suits. Buying music from iTunes means you're locked into iTunes and iPods forever. (If I buy a track from a WMADRM vendor I have hundreds of devices to choose from.) So nice of Apple to share the iTunes success by licensing the protocol with its loyal developers. (Oh wait, they didn't!) Apple is far behind in a number of technologies. Tablet/handwriting. Voice. A few others mentioned in this thread. Their applications are not terribly exciting, either. ClarisWorks/AppleWorks was a fantastic program in its day; it basically destroyed Microsoft Works. Then they stopped doing anything with it and now it's end of life with no adequate replacement. My much-beloved FileMaker languished, neglected for at least 6 years before they dusted it off and started making some real improvements to it the last two years. Poor Mac developers, indeed. They've suffered an abusive relationship for years with Apple. Now, you wonder why the existence of Boot Camp is the only reason why I'll consider an Apple again. Richard Gaskin wrote... Welcome to Macintosh. Thank you for your two decades of sacrifice. Now please excuse us as we make it easy for non-Mac developers to walk in and destroy your business without lifting a finger... ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
although I am not a Mac person yet, and buying Mac for software tests (Windows/Linux/Mac) is in my future plans only, I think the first successful step that increased market share of Apple was giving up Mac Classic and building the new OSX on nix ! This action increased availability of software tools originally created for other nix'es (Unix, Linux) that started to be easily portable to Mac, because now Mac belongs to the same family too. The second successful step is giving up hardware limitations with Mac Intel. This should have a major effect in a few years. The third successful step would be reduction of price so I could afford buying the Mac by the end of this year :-). I think Multiplatform development tools emerging on Mac side are the strong side of the Mac, not the weak. Developers will always want to have several choices, and if they now see that something they created on Mac will work on Linux or Windows, they feel happy, safe and enjoy the world of Apple. On the other hand the same truth applies to Windows. So nor Mac neither Windows are going to die, unless they start implementing policies restricting multiplatform development in any way and thus isolating themselves... By the way, Windows XP is really stable thing now. It never crashed on my PCs since I have installed it (legaly) for the first time several years ago. Still the major concern about Windows is security - antivirus, firewall and malware removal tools (like spybot) should be always on. Mac OSX is much safer just because it inherits all the secure environment from nix... All the best! Viktoras ---Original Message--- From: Richard Gaskin Date: 07/09/06 22:43:14 To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: [OT] Market Share Bill Marriott wrote: Thank Intel + BootCamp. End users can thank Intel and BootCamp, but for Mac developers nothing could be more of a threat. Since the beginning of Macdom, writing for the Mac was a choice you had to make, often a fairly expensive choice. But a lot of developers bit the bullet and did it anyway, and they developed loyal fans, and all was good, and the fan mail helped make up for the unusually high overhead of committing to the Mac marketplace. Then along came BootCamp, and eventually a variant which further blurs the lines between Mac and Windows apps. When that version arrives, there will be little incentive to support Mac developers -- and that includes cross platform developers like most of us here, since users can run VB-native apps right inside of an OS X window. Welcome to Macintosh. Thank you for your two decades of sacrifice. Now please excuse us as we make it easy for non-Mac developers to walk in and destroy your business without lifting a finger... -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Rob, I think that your response to new computer buyers is the best advice anyone could ever give. I bought a Mac in 1985 and it was my first computer. I bought it for 2 reasons, first, after 17 years in the computer industry, it was the first personal computer I could rationalize because I couldn't see going home at night and doing stuff I had been doing all day, working with command line computers. Second, for a couple of years I had been designing a way of designing boats on a computer and was not satisfied with either the S100 bus computers, the Apple II or the IBM PC. Shortly after the Mac came out, Andrew Mason came out with MacSurf - a programme that manipulated a surface in 3D space on a Mac Plus. I bought the Mac. I have never owned a PC until 2 years ago when I needed to use some group conferencing software to communicate with a group of geographically dispersed clients. I used VirtualPC up until MS purchased the company and made it impossible to run on a Mac. Then I used Timbuktu to use the PC from my Mac. Additionally, I have had to deal with the fact that most of my clients use a PC. My concession there was to adopt MS Office as my business software of choice, bugs and all. Rev is an extension of this circumstance where I need to design software for my PC audience while still using my Mac for my own and a few clients' work. I can see where you would like the work arrangement you have and would go with the platform that delivered it. In my orientation, I would wait until it became available on the Mac, if it ever did. Looks like ink input is available for OS 10. I definitely prefer Palm script to the tiny keyboard of the Blackberry. Anyway... I'm definitely in the Mac niche with a nod the PC niche... Jim on 7/9/06 12:28 PM, Rob Cozens wrote: Jim, Your response to my post could have been written by me -- four years ago. My first personal computer was an original IBM PC. My second was a Mac SE/3O, and I never owned a computer running Windows until I bought a Motion M13OO Tablet PC. When friends asked, should I buy a Mac or a PC ?, my original response was, find the software you need and buy the computer that it runs on. After watching friends' experiences, I amended that to include But most people seem to have an easier time learning how to use a Mac. I would grit my teeth and smile when friends who set out to buy a Mac came home with Circuit City's computer de jour -- and asked me for help when the damn thing crashed. I would smile smugly while watching my son and my brother-in-law, both certified Microsoft engineers, struggle to install a new device on my brother's PC. And I said to myself NO WAY! when Pirates of the Silicon Valley (or a PBS documentary of the same genre) concluded that Apple lost the O/S war when Windows replaced MS/DOS. But times have changed, and I would suggest that every Mac bigot -- to use Dan Shafer's term affectionately -- who believes this is still the state of the Windows platforms should test her/his perception as it applies to today's technology. After 15 years of Mac ownership, I wouldn't buy another Apple computer that doesn't support ink input and profile screen orientation. My keyboard sits in a drawer, and virtually never sees the light of day. The pen is mightier than the mouse! Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee. from The Triple Foole by John Donne (1572-1631) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- www.TalentSeeker.ca www.HiringSmart.ca/ns www.KeepingTheBest.ca/ns http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited, 23 Shoal Cove Road, Seabright, Nova Scotia, Canada. B3Z 3A9 Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Bill and Richard I couldn't agree with you more. I would only add that it's much harder to develop for a moving target, aka the Mac OSX, than the major update every 5 years with Windows. Frankly, I'm in the minority as I *much* prefer *not* having to purchase an update for my OS every year. I guess I can live without the latest transparent window effect, or dashboard widgets, or the latest hyped feature from Jobs. I just want a solid, robust, OS. Forget the cost, every OSX release has been fraught with bugs and inconsistencies which send developers scurrying to provide updates. I've said it before, but we spend at least 4X the resources keeping our Mac products updated as we do Windows. Also, as many Mac users already know, one doesn't typically install the dot zero OSX.x release. Even my good buddy, Bob LeVitus (Dr. Mac) knows this-- though he does enjoy having to release new books every time Apple releases a new 'CAT.' Rob, you're right on. For those who haven't at least TRIED windows lately, they could be in for a surprise. But, to each his own taste, for sure! -Chipp On 7/9/06, Bill Marriott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apple employs business practices that, if used by Microsoft, would have people crying foul and bringing anti-trust suits. Buying music from iTunes means you're locked into iTunes and iPods forever. (If I buy a track from a WMADRM vendor I have hundreds of devices to choose from.) So nice of Apple to share the iTunes success by licensing the protocol with its loyal developers. (Oh wait, they didn't!) Apple is far behind in a number of technologies. Tablet/handwriting. Voice. A few others mentioned in this thread. Their applications are not terribly exciting, either. ClarisWorks/AppleWorks was a fantastic program in its day; it basically destroyed Microsoft Works. Then they stopped doing anything with it and now it's end of life with no adequate replacement. My much-beloved FileMaker languished, neglected for at least 6 years before they dusted it off and started making some real improvements to it the last two years. Poor Mac developers, indeed. They've suffered an abusive relationship for years with Apple. Now, you wonder why the existence of Boot Camp is the only reason why I'll consider an Apple again. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Wow, this latest round of messages constitutes one of the nicest, most informative and useful threads on this subject I've read in a while. Congratulations to all of you who have participated recently. I am certainly a Mac bigot. But I no longer see Mac and OS X as inherently vastly superior to Windows technology. I occasionally have need to run Windows (XP Pro) and I must say that although I find bits of the user experience clunky (probably only because they are different from what I am used to on OS X), by and large, the platform is stable and relatively pleasant to use. And I know I pay a premium in price and other intangible ways for remaining an OS X loyalist. But there are three programs on OS X that are not special-purpose applications but without which I cannot imagine my day, and they all run only on OS X and, as far as I can tell at least, have no real functional quality equivalents on Windows: * NoteTaker/NoteShare from AquaMinds Software (an OS X only shop) * iListen (voice dictation and command software from MacSpeech) * Pages (Apple's thoroughly brilliang word processor cum page layout application) There are *rough* equivalents of these on Win XP, but I've looked at them and they all pale in comparison; I suspect anyone who knew the above programs well and compared them to their Win counterparts would agree. But, like Rob Cozens, I tell people now when they ask me what kind of computer to buy, to take into account: FIRST, the softwrare they want or need to run SECOND, whether they need to be file or app-level compatible with computers at work or school THIRD, whether they expect me to help them if they run into problems. Because like my wife's housekeeper, I don't do Windows! But I also no longer bash them. Dan ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Rob, the reason I asked 'what's the market share for tablet PCs?' (I don't know the answer, either) was simply the title of this thread. I certainly wasn't trying to disparage TPCs. I assume most modern OSes to be generally stable, though as a mac- user of many years I'd have to say that pre OS X, I found macs to be 'mostly' stable :) Best, Mark ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
That may be the developers view - what about the users? I am not a professional developer, and as a user (I have 10.4 on a PB for personal stuff, 10.3 on a 7 year old 350Mhz G3 that runs as a print server and other things, and 10.2 on a dual G4 that runs my music stuff) I have not found anything that I use to be fraught in any way...perhaps the developers who make the software I use have torn their hair out, but I paid what they asked so it's really not my problem. Nor have I had to upgrade any of my software or peripherals to accomodate OS releases, though I am about to upgrade the G4 to OS 10.4 as some new (non-apple) software I'm getting requires it. Having said that, I've generaly avoided the bleeding edge, and I tend to only upgrade anything when there is a fairly compelling reason to, like some new feature that I might actually use :) I think Apple have always focused on the user experience, perhaps at the expense of the developer experience - and I hope they continue to. (This is not to suggest that MS don't, I'm sure they do, but I've never used windows seriously, so I really can't say anything useful about it). Best, Mark On 10 Jul 2006, at 00:23, Chipp Walters wrote: Forget the cost, every OSX release has been fraught with bugs and inconsistencies which send developers scurrying to provide updates. I've said it before, but we spend at least 4X the resources keeping our Mac products updated as we do Windows. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Hi Mark, On 7/9/06, Mark Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having said that, I've generaly avoided the bleeding edge, and I tend to only upgrade anything when there is a fairly compelling reason to, like some new feature that I might actually use :) Generally speaking, a great bit of advice for all! -Chipp ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
I was an HC developer in the early 90's but gave up and became a user simply because it was too difficult to keep up with the changes in the industry. I can only imagine the intensity of effort required to stay current and relevant on multiple platforms. No wonder Rev is so important. No wonder Rev charges what it does to offset the intensity of their work on multiple platforms too. From a users perspective it is still all about standards, expectations and the consistency of experience. As long as people experience what they expect to experience, they will choose that product. Ergo, PC users will continue to be PC users and Mac users will continue to be Mac users and can continue to cherry pick from the PC world natively on Intel rather than using VirtualPC and Timbuktu. The iPod/iTunes users switching from the PC to the Mac will likely experience a WOW simply because their expectations going in have to be lower than Mac users if for no other reason than issues around viruses and other malware... Jim on 7/9/06 9:11 PM, Mark Smith wrote: That may be the developers view - what about the users? I am not a professional developer, and as a user (I have 10.4 on a PB for personal stuff, 10.3 on a 7 year old 350Mhz G3 that runs as a print server and other things, and 10.2 on a dual G4 that runs my music stuff) I have not found anything that I use to be fraught in any way...perhaps the developers who make the software I use have torn their hair out, but I paid what they asked so it's really not my problem. Nor have I had to upgrade any of my software or peripherals to accomodate OS releases, though I am about to upgrade the G4 to OS 10.4 as some new (non-apple) software I'm getting requires it. Having said that, I've generaly avoided the bleeding edge, and I tend to only upgrade anything when there is a fairly compelling reason to, like some new feature that I might actually use :) I think Apple have always focused on the user experience, perhaps at the expense of the developer experience - and I hope they continue to. (This is not to suggest that MS don't, I'm sure they do, but I've never used windows seriously, so I really can't say anything useful about it). Best, Mark On 10 Jul 2006, at 00:23, Chipp Walters wrote: Forget the cost, every OSX release has been fraught with bugs and inconsistencies which send developers scurrying to provide updates. I've said it before, but we spend at least 4X the resources keeping our Mac products updated as we do Windows. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- www.TalentSeeker.ca www.HiringSmart.ca/ns www.KeepingTheBest.ca/ns http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited, 23 Shoal Cove Road, Seabright, Nova Scotia, Canada. B3Z 3A9 Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
On Monday 10 July 2006 05:45, Richard Gaskin wrote: Then along came BootCamp, and eventually a variant which further blurs the lines between Mac and Windows apps. When that version arrives, there will be little incentive to support Mac developers -- and that includes cross platform developers like most of us here, since users can run VB-native apps right inside of an OS X window. Welcome to Macintosh. Thank you for your two decades of sacrifice. Now please excuse us as we make it easy for non-Mac developers to walk in and destroy your business without lifting a finger... Ouch! Sounds like you were getting ready to rest on your laurels... -- Rishi Viner -- Australia ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
On Monday 10 July 2006 04:12, Richmond Mathewson wrote: There are 2 definitions of a killer app and the one I don't like is the amazing app that ties users in to a dependence on one OS for ever. Agreed. People are generally less and less happy with being locked in to anything... Wouldn't it be super if RR were to evolve into the other type of Killer app: the type which, regardless of OS, hardware, or whatever, nobody could do without? Exactly! If you can nail that you will see real, ongoing success. -- Rishi Viner -- Australia ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Rob... I should have been more clear on what I meant. I don't argue that there are refinements on the PC that don't appear on the Mac, as you have listed. One would have to expect that given the proliferation of PC's as an economic base for such things... I'm not techy either, just a person who has been around computers since Adam - or so it seems some time. My point about technology was in reference to the points I made earlier about OS integration, architecture and standards - mainly standards. Although the PC world has somewhat adopted the look of standards, IMO they don't have the level of sophistication that is embedded in the Mac. People expect the Mac to work. Anything else is abnormal. People expect buggy software from MS and are prepared to live with crashes, corrupted data, regular bug fixes, arbitrary changes in menu items and application features, etc. I only meant that the fact that Mac has switched to Intel does not imply that it will become a PC. The Mac will carry it's standards and level of sophistication with it. I'm sure Jobs is banking on the WOW factor when PC iPod/iTunes users switch to the Mac because it has Intel and experience the result of consistency and standards. I'll bet they tell their friends... Interesting too that Apple's experiment with the Newton was stopped. I'll bet this is another loop and that the Newton will come winging around again disguised as a super iPod or something. Wasn't it Andre or somebody on this list who still uses a Newton, said that the Newton still does some things better than the current crop of PDAs? It could be that the iPod eventually morphs into Job's toaster quicker than the iMac... That's all... Jim on 7/7/06 12:00 PM, Rob Cozens wrote: Jim, et al: I'm in agreement with everything you said except this: Technically speaking, the Mac, even using the Intel chip, is light-years ahead of the PC. If you're speaking of internal architecture, I'm not qualified to judge. If you're speaking of technology delivered to the user, what Mac system delivers -- * Ink input (out of the box) * Handwriting recognition (out of the box) * Voice to text (after voice training) * Spoken commands (after voice training) * Fingerprint recognition (standard on at least on some TPC models) -- for virtually all applications (I've tested) except RunTime Revolution? Dell, Gateway, IBM and most major PC manufactures are selling Tablet PC technology today. If, indeed, Jobs is focused on iPod and colored computers, when would you expect to see a Mac with Tablet PC capabilities come to market? -- www.TalentSeeker.ca www.HiringSmart.ca/ns www.KeepingTheBest.ca/ns http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited, 23 Shoal Cove Road, Seabright, Nova Scotia, Canada. B3Z 3A9 Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
I'm going to have to duck the troll this time. Though shooting ducks on the pond is a favorite pastime, and these are right there and up close ;-) -Chipp On 7/8/06, Jim Carwardine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not techy either, just a person who has been around computers since Adam - or so it seems some time. My point about technology was in reference to the points I made earlier about OS integration, architecture and standards - mainly standards. Although the PC world has somewhat adopted the look of standards, IMO they don't have the level of sophistication that is embedded in the Mac. People expect the Mac to work. Anything else is abnormal. People expect buggy software from MS and are prepared to live with crashes, corrupted data, regular bug fixes, arbitrary changes in menu items and application features, etc. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Yeah... Lets end this thread. No need to rekindle any comparison wars. Simple fact is, I'm in both niches and thankful that Rev is too. I wouldn't be a Rev customer if Rev wasn't what it is - HC on steroids... Jim on 7/8/06 3:57 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: I'm going to have to duck the troll this time. Though shooting ducks on the pond is a favorite pastime, and these are right there and up close ;-) -Chipp On 7/8/06, Jim Carwardine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not techy either, just a person who has been around computers since Adam - or so it seems some time. My point about technology was in reference to the points I made earlier about OS integration, architecture and standards - mainly standards. Although the PC world has somewhat adopted the look of standards, IMO they don't have the level of sophistication that is embedded in the Mac. People expect the Mac to work. Anything else is abnormal. People expect buggy software from MS and are prepared to live with crashes, corrupted data, regular bug fixes, arbitrary changes in menu items and application features, etc. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- www.TalentSeeker.ca www.HiringSmart.ca/ns www.KeepingTheBest.ca/ns http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited, 23 Shoal Cove Road, Seabright, Nova Scotia, Canada. B3Z 3A9 Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Niether fanning nor dousing, but I thought this an interesting tidbit. -Mark http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2006/7/8/4569 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
True to a point... In a technical business, there must some kind of synergy between technical and marketing. For MS, Gates had the huge market built for him thru IBM opening the architecture to clones. Jobs had the solidness of the system architecture - deeply integrated operating system with the hardware, standards for the GUI that were not only used by Apple but published to developers with the promise that their app would always run on a Mac if they adhered to the standards and Guy Kawasaki, who built the niche. Technically speaking, the Mac, even using the Intel chip, is light-years ahead of the PC. Anyone who thinks that buying a PC today running Windows isn't buying a computer still running DOS only has to look at the monitor when it crashes. I just purchased an LG monitor for my Powerbook. It came with a 4 page manual for installing the drivers in the various versions of Windows. I just plugged it into my Mac and started using it. Both Gates and Jobs did a superb job of marketing. Gates in convincing the PC was on the leading edge and Jobs in ignoring the status quo and building his niche. Jobs is the true visionary. What's his vision? It was stated 20 some odd years ago and I think is still true - Jobs believes there is no reason why a personal computer shouldn't be as easy or common to use as a toaster. Remember that? Jim on 7/4/06 11:44 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: Kay, Great point. Fact is, marketing is where Jobs truly shines! On 7/2/06, Kay C Lan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My point exactly. How many other CEO out there can make so much money out of such irrelevance. From a technological standpoint, truly embarrassing. From a marketing standpoint, head a shoulders, world record, Gold medal, hall of fame never to be forgotten kinda of stuff. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- www.TalentSeeker.ca www.HiringSmart.ca/ns www.KeepingTheBest.ca/ns http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited, 23 Shoal Cove Road, Seabright, Nova Scotia, Canada. B3Z 3A9 Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Jim, et al: I'm in agreement with everything you said except this: Technically speaking, the Mac, even using the Intel chip, is light-years ahead of the PC. If you're speaking of internal architecture, I'm not qualified to judge. If you're speaking of technology delivered to the user, what Mac system delivers -- * Ink input (out of the box) * Handwriting recognition (out of the box) * Voice to text (after voice training) * Spoken commands (after voice training) * Fingerprint recognition (standard on at least on some TPC models) -- for virtually all applications (I've tested) except RunTime Revolution? Dell, Gateway, IBM and most major PC manufactures are selling Tablet PC technology today. If, indeed, Jobs is focused on iPod and colored computers, when would you expect to see a Mac with Tablet PC capabilities come to market? -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee. from The Triple Foole by John Donne (1572-1631) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
And that's why some of us are not so eager to upgrade from Rev Studio 2.6.1 which is the last version capable to produce standalones for all the main OSes including Linux. From my personal experience there are more Linux users than those of MacOS at least in research development sector in Europe. And many use dual boot Linux/Windows systems, not to say that in a distributed computing sector Linux rules. In my area I still was not able to find anyone with MacOS to test some apps (so I will need to buy one Apple, but maybe later as it is so expensive...). Actually the Windows/Linux/MacOS share in European Universities, Institutes and research companies is something like 100x10x1. So that's what our students are used to... Viktoras ---Original Message--- From: Richmond Mathewson Date: 07/05/06 10:40:57 To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: [OT] Market Share Interesting Discussion . . . As a longtime, mainly irrational, fan of Apple computers (to a large extent based on the belief that Microsoft OS's are inferior) I have had the opportunity for the last year or so to work with a number of 'old' PCs running Ubuntu Linux. This Debian variant has allowed me to set up a teaching operation using old Pentium 3s at minimal cost - and has cut maintenance time to almost zero. I have gone funny and am now running Ubuntu 6.06 on the second partition of my early model (PPC) Mac-Mini. What I really enjoy about Ubuntu Linux (and, even more about XUBUNTU - the Ubuntu variant that sports the XFCE desktop) is: 1. The interface is extremely consistent.[Mac OS X.4 is all over the place and Windows XP looks like my Grandmother dressed up in teenage clothes (sorry Granny)]. 2. When something crashes (and that is rare) it does not lock up the whole machine and demand 20 minutes while the whole shebang is restarted and its ego is massaged. As of now, I can honestly say that I am not really anti either Microsoft or Apple - but hope that the developing desktop Linuxes will serve to stimulate both the commercial companies to sort a lot of things out. And, while I am here and on topic . . . I know that the good folks at RR treat Linux as 'the third force' (and not very forceful at that); but it does seem a pity that RR for Linux lags behind (with some of its capabilities) RR for the 2 dominant commercial OS families. sincerely, Richmond Mathewson Philosophical problems are confusions arising owing to the fluidity of meanings users attach to words and phrases. Mathewson, 2006 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Bob- Wednesday, July 5, 2006, 10:47:12 AM, you wrote: 2) Giving us some means of discovering whether a floppy diskette drive exists in the hardware (since it cannot be done by the normal 'Windows' method). How about looking at the /etc/fstab file and checking for the presence of a /dev/fd0 entry? -- -Mark Wieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Mark Wieder wrote: Bob- Wednesday, July 5, 2006, 10:47:12 AM, you wrote: 2) Giving us some means of discovering whether a floppy diskette drive exists in the hardware (since it cannot be done by the normal 'Windows' method). How about looking at the /etc/fstab file and checking for the presence of a /dev/fd0 entry? That works fine on Ubuntu, but for other distros the fstab is either in a different place or it doesn't even seem to exist! Bob ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Kay, Great point. Fact is, marketing is where Jobs truly shines! On 7/2/06, Kay C Lan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My point exactly. How many other CEO out there can make so much money out of such irrelevance. From a technological standpoint, truly embarrassing. From a marketing standpoint, head a shoulders, world record, Gold medal, hall of fame never to be forgotten kinda of stuff. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Hi Wolfgang, While I don't disagree completely with your argument, please understand, MY goal in MY company was to provide users with computers-- TODAY (or rather THEN). I personally couldn't shape, nor wait for enevitable judicial and marketing forces to shape the destiny of Microsoft. Furthermore, sadly, it appears MS hasn't lost much ground here in the states, as they seem to have complete freedom to do what the want as far as our courts are concerned. Perhaps in Germany, China and India, Microsoft can be 'managed,' -- though I imagine many of the companies there work directly with/for other global companies which use Microsoft products. best, Chipp On 7/3/06, Wolfgang Bereuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chipp, you are very IT focused... If M$ has 80% or 85% or 90% - no matter: Its a pest anyway: Its a monopol. Monopols will be killed sooner or later. snip Or better: shouldnt the intelligent US people better crush it until it makes them impotent? It will make them impotent, much less potent as they are now, or do you really think India and China will buy! Billions of M$ Licenses in this century? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
For those of you wondering, enevitable is the envy of inevitable. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
On 02.07.2006, at 00:48, Chipp Walters wrote: It really wasn't the cost of ownership (Macs were still VERY expensive), but rather the business cost to us which forced the change. Since then, I've used both Macs and PCs and I just happen to prefer PCs (for a variety of reasons which I won't go into as I'm really not interested in stoking a platform religious war). -- snip --- BTW, just ran across another Apple Upbeat market share article which claim Apple has less than 2% market share worldwide. Though it does predict better market share to come: http://yahoo.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2006/ tc20060615_080175.htm I, too, enjoy this discussion :-) Chipp, you are very IT focused... If M$ has 80% or 85% or 90% - no matter: Its a pest anyway: Its a monopol. Monopols will be killed sooner or later. This world lives since billions of years from/in diversity. That diversity has killed much bigger animals than M$. M$ is about 30 years. Less than a nanoseconds in the evolution? Big as a microfuruncle on the scrotum of the planet. But shouldnt we better crush it until it makes us impotent? Or better: shouldnt the intelligent US people better crush it until it makes them impotent? It will make them impotent, much less potent as they are now, or do you really think India and China will buy! Billions of M$ Licenses in this century? regards wolfgang bereuter PS: I hope I have it right expressed in english... -- Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html traips! photolearning trainingsmaps ... http://www.traips.org http://www.internettrainer.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria Tel: ++43/1/ 479 6410 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Jin,et al: For my money, Jobs is a true visionary... As a disgruntled HyperCard evangelist, I see him in a different light: Steve Job's sole contribution to the technical side of computing was his insight as to how the mouse device under development at Xerox's PARC research center could drive a GUI. Having brought this technology to the marketplace, Jobs chose to compete on the basis of technology when buyers had shifted focus to price (or were, at least, beginning to? Perhaps this was an early indicator of the coming wave of Wal Mart mentality?) Too bad he totally didn't get it when it came to HyperCard or QuickTime Interactive. Having established Apple as a leading innovator in computer technology, promotion of HyperCard as Microsoft promoted VB and/or (as Gil Amellio [sp?] was committed to) bringing QTI to market would have built upon and enhanced that position. Instead, Jobs' second coming brought us colored computers. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee. from The Triple Foole by John Donne (1572-1631) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
On 7/2/06, Jim Carwardine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You would be surprised at how many CEOs out there do get it and could replace Jobs. Rob Cozens wrote: Instead, Jobs' second coming brought us colored computers. My point exactly. How many other CEO out there can make so much money out of such irrelevance. From a technological standpoint, truly embarrassing. From a marketing standpoint, head a shoulders, world record, Gold medal, hall of fame never to be forgotten kinda of stuff. I reckon Kevin wishes he could get an extra million sales just by changing the colour of the box:-) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Hi Kay, FTR, I was pretty much a Mac fanatic in the early days. My company only used Macs and we did some things which at that time, could only be done with Macs. Voting with their wallet After my company got to 50 people, we started believing it unwise to hold ourselves hostage to a single supplier, as evidenced by the fact (at the time) Powerbooks had over a year backlog-- so I couldn't purchase them for my sales people. It really wasn't the cost of ownership (Macs were still VERY expensive), but rather the business cost to us which forced the change. Since then, I've used both Macs and PCs and I just happen to prefer PCs (for a variety of reasons which I won't go into as I'm really not interested in stoking a platform religious war). One of the most positive things I've seen lately is their pricing on MacBooks. For the first time since I can remember, Apple is very competitively priced vs the PC world. This, IMO, bodes well for their success. Now, I wish they would just fix their advertising campaign, as I (and others) think it's somewhat offensive, and certainly not something which would endear me to purchase a Mac. See the article on SLATE: http://www.slate.com/id/2143810/ BTW, just ran across another Apple Upbeat market share article which claim Apple has less than 2% market share worldwide. Though it does predict better market share to come: http://yahoo.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2006/tc20060615_080175.htm I, too, enjoy this discussion :-) -Chipp I believe it is universally accepted that one of the 'genius' decisions of Bill Gates was to go with the system that was open. Job's poor decision was to go with a closed system. People voted with their wallet and bought the cheapest they could - which invariable was not a branded IBM box. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
I remember a quote from Bob Levitas a few years ago responding to a discussion of market share. He said that Jobs only ever saw the Mac as a niche machine. Man, what a niche. The business mantra in this millennium is find/create a niche and dominate it. Jobs was 20 years ahead of his time. It took his Board years to figure that out. Wall Street still hasn't got it. Jobs is not competing with Microsoft. They are not in his niche. His successors and predecessors at Apple were and they almost lost the company. Jobs is now growing the Mac's niche through iTunes, iPod and Intel. Remember when Jobs took back the reins and Bill's face loomed out over the crowd at MacWorld? There was a lot of booing. Jobs said, For Apple to succeed, Microsoft doesn't have to fail. For my money, Jobs is a true visionary... Jim on 7/1/06 7:48 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: Hi Kay, FTR, I was pretty much a Mac fanatic in the early days. My company only used Macs and we did some things which at that time, could only be done with Macs. Voting with their wallet After my company got to 50 people, we started believing it unwise to hold ourselves hostage to a single supplier, as evidenced by the fact (at the time) Powerbooks had over a year backlog-- so I couldn't purchase them for my sales people. It really wasn't the cost of ownership (Macs were still VERY expensive), but rather the business cost to us which forced the change. Since then, I've used both Macs and PCs and I just happen to prefer PCs (for a variety of reasons which I won't go into as I'm really not interested in stoking a platform religious war). One of the most positive things I've seen lately is their pricing on MacBooks. For the first time since I can remember, Apple is very competitively priced vs the PC world. This, IMO, bodes well for their success. Now, I wish they would just fix their advertising campaign, as I (and others) think it's somewhat offensive, and certainly not something which would endear me to purchase a Mac. See the article on SLATE: http://www.slate.com/id/2143810/ BTW, just ran across another Apple Upbeat market share article which claim Apple has less than 2% market share worldwide. Though it does predict better market share to come: http://yahoo.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2006/tc20060615_080175.htm I, too, enjoy this discussion :-) -Chipp I believe it is universally accepted that one of the 'genius' decisions of Bill Gates was to go with the system that was open. Job's poor decision was to go with a closed system. People voted with their wallet and bought the cheapest they could - which invariable was not a branded IBM box. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- www.TalentSeeker.ca www.HiringSmart.ca/ns www.KeepingTheBest.ca/ns http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited, 23 Shoal Cove Road, Seabright, Nova Scotia, Canada. B3Z 3A9 Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
On 7/2/06, Jim Carwardine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jobs is not competing with Microsoft. They are not in his niche. His successors and predecessors at Apple were and they almost lost the company. For my money, Jobs is a true visionary... Jim And probably my only true concern for the future of the company. MS is now in a situation that any one of a million CEO of large companies across the globe who have nothing to do with the software industry could take the reins of MS. For Apple though, if Jobs died in a plane crash today, who would have the vision. Jonathan Ives clearly has the brilliance of creating must have gadgets, but does he have the personality/passion to inspire and lead? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
You would be surprised at how many CEOs out there do get it and could replace Jobs. I don't know, but I would bet that the majority of Apple's Board now get it as well and would be capable of selecting a decent candidate for replacing Jobs if he died in a plane crash. There was a comment earlier about the Apple TV ads. I don't think those ads are about attracting normal unknowing PC users - the bulk of PC users think the GUI world started with Windows in 1995. I think those ads are about market research for Apple, designed to appeal to PC users who are using iPods and iTunes. They are the ones Jobs wants to join the new MacIntel niche... Jim on 7/1/06 11:08 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: On 7/2/06, Jim Carwardine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jobs is not competing with Microsoft. They are not in his niche. His successors and predecessors at Apple were and they almost lost the company. For my money, Jobs is a true visionary... Jim And probably my only true concern for the future of the company. MS is now in a situation that any one of a million CEO of large companies across the globe who have nothing to do with the software industry could take the reins of MS. For Apple though, if Jobs died in a plane crash today, who would have the vision. Jonathan Ives clearly has the brilliance of creating must have gadgets, but does he have the personality/passion to inspire and lead? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- www.TalentSeeker.ca www.HiringSmart.ca/ns www.KeepingTheBest.ca/ns http://www.OwnYourFuture-net.com Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited, 23 Shoal Cove Road, Seabright, Nova Scotia, Canada. B3Z 3A9 Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
On Jun 29, 2006, at 4:59 PM, Mark Smith wrote: And even then, if you're developing in a particular area, these installed base/market share figures can be wildly different anyway. True dat. Among creative professionals (graphic design/web/video/print/music) Mac market share is far higher than 5%. In the area of professional video production, I have heard figures of 50%/50% Mac/Windows market share. As far as Final Cut Pro editors, Mac market share is 100% (because they killed the Windows version before release! :-) In dental office software I doubt Mac has anything close to 5% - I would guess more like .1%. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
On Jun 29, 2006, at 11:51 PM, Josh Mellicker wrote: In dental office software I doubt Mac has anything close to 5% - I would guess more like .1%. In vision testing software you could safely guess 90%. Just thought I would jump in there. :) bfn. Mark Talluto -- CANELA Software http://www.canelasoftware.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
On 6/30/06, Chipp Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Certainly not reflective of the millions of users who have paid for XP. Virtually every Dell, Gateway, Compaq, Sony, HP, IBM desktop and laptop have a licensed and paid for version of XP. I imagine if you don't include them in your straw poll, you will certainly get biased information. OK, just to make something clear. I have no doubt that the overwhelmingly dominating OS in the world is Windows. That is driven home to me by the fact that where I live Palm devices don't include ANY Mac compatible software. Store attendants adamently maintain that their LifeDrive can not be used with a Mac! The box clearly indicates under System Requirements only Windows details. As you say, every named brand Windows computer comes with a legal copy of Windows. The same can be said of every Mac. But you can buy no name brand Windows computers. If you look back to my original post my 'question' to the list was not the exact market share, but: Is having 99.9% of the pirated software market good or bad? I was blissfully unaware that MS had brought about a situation where it is now virtuallly impossible to run a pirated version of XP if connected to the internet. That makes my original question even more interesting - to me at least. I believe it is universally accepted that one of the 'genius' decisions of Bill Gates was to go with the system that was open. Job's poor decision was to go with a closed system. People voted with their wallet and bought the cheapest they could - which invariable was not a branded IBM box. So has MS now created itself a more closed market? I don't believe the pirate market is so much a statement of the dishonesty of people, but the reality that a large percentage of the worlds population live well below the income level of a lower-middle class American who can barely make ends meet. When these people vote with their wallet will they sacrafice to get that legal copy or will they just go with the cheapest they can get; even if nowadays that means Linux? Again I don't care what the exact 'legal' market share is, but whether having a dominant, growing or declinging pirate market share is good or bad? Does this reflect what will happen in the 'legal' market share? Just enjoying the discussion. I never knew about the optical testing market:-) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Maybe that's why Microsoft is going to pull the plug on them this fall: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=84tag=nl.e539 Kay C Lan wrote: Unfortunately where I live I guarantee less than 50% of home PC users have a legal copy of Windows. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Bill Marriott wrote: Maybe that's why Microsoft is going to pull the plug on them this fall: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=84tag=nl.e539 Kay C Lan wrote: Unfortunately where I live I guarantee less than 50% of home PC users have a legal copy of Windows. LOL - Imagine if this anti-piracy moves cuts their market share in half. :) -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
This WGA Kill Switch business will really piss people off... can you say Class Action Suit?? Maybe that's why Microsoft is going to pull the plug on them this fall: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=84tag=nl.e539 Kay C Lan wrote: Unfortunately where I live I guarantee less than 50% of home PC users have a legal copy of Windows. -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
On 6/29/06, Kay C Lan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If 90% of home PCs run Windows and 10% run OSX, yet 50% of the Windows users use a pirated copy whilst for OSX it is only 5%, what is the market share? Where do you find this statistic? In America, regarding XP, I'm SURE it's wrong, as MS's copy protection features are absolutely the industry's best. Microsoft can now detect a pirated machine and completely disable it from being used. All that's needed is a connection to the internet. For anyone wanting not to go through many 'format and replace all' scenarios, they would be wise to pay for XP. Even hacked copies from China don't securely bypass MS's latest copy protection. If you don't believe me, just try getting one of the latest security updates from MS on a hacked version of XP and see what happens. OTOH, Apple has no copy protection on their software, so my *GUESS* is that OSX is pirated more often (% wise) than WinXP. I have a separate registered version of WinXP for each PC I have (5). Not to mention, it's hard nowadays to EVEN BUY a computer without XP already installed. One good think about XP, is they don't hit you up every 18 months for another $125 for a new OS with minor changes like Apple does. -Chipp ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
OTOH, Chipp, wouldn't it make more sense for developers be more interested in installed base, rather than the last years market share? (Not that I have any idea what those figures might be). And even then, if you're developing in a particular area, these installed base/market share figures can be wildly different anyway. I mean, no-one can seriously deny that the majority of the world is using Windows, but this does not at all mean that the other OS's should simply be ignored by the business-minded developer. I know you know that, and I know that this list is hardly a place where the Macintosh needs much defending, but I think the point is worth making. After all, Rev's cross platform ability is one of it's biggest plus-points for many here. Not that it's a perfect metaphor, but while Toyota is obviously a much bigger company than BMW, is a BMW dealership necessarily a worse business than a Toyota dealership? (I read somewhere that BMWs market share is around 1 to 2%). Best, Mark On 29 Jun 2006, at 21:28, Chipp Walters wrote: On 6/29/06, Kay C Lan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If 90% of home PCs run Windows and 10% run OSX, yet 50% of the Windows users use a pirated copy whilst for OSX it is only 5%, what is the market share? Where do you find this statistic? In America, regarding XP, I'm SURE it's wrong, as MS's copy protection features are absolutely the industry's best. Microsoft can now detect a pirated machine and completely disable it from being used. All that's needed is a connection to the internet. For anyone wanting not to go through many 'format and replace all' scenarios, they would be wise to pay for XP. Even hacked copies from China don't securely bypass MS's latest copy protection. If you don't believe me, just try getting one of the latest security updates from MS on a hacked version of XP and see what happens. OTOH, Apple has no copy protection on their software, so my *GUESS* is that OSX is pirated more often (% wise) than WinXP. I have a separate registered version of WinXP for each PC I have (5). Not to mention, it's hard nowadays to EVEN BUY a computer without XP already installed. One good think about XP, is they don't hit you up every 18 months for another $125 for a new OS with minor changes like Apple does. -Chipp ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
On 6/30/06, Chipp Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/29/06, Kay C Lan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If 90% of home PCs run Windows and 10% run OSX, yet 50% of the Windows users use a pirated copy whilst for OSX it is only 5%, what is the market share? Where do you find this statistic? In America, regarding XP, I'm SURE it's wrong, as MS's copy protection features are absolutely the industry's best. Yes I'll admit it is only my guess based on my own very small straw poll. With regard to where I live, and the company I work for the XP market share is 0%. We just spent a lot of money upgrading from 2000 to NT. With regard to school my children attend the XP market share is 0%. They have a variety of 98 and 2000 machines. With regard to company my brother works for (sells highend software and training/consultancy using the software) the XP market share is 0%. All the machines run 95 except for a few NT and Linux boxes. With regard to a company I paid to do some publishing/flyers, they freely admitted that on every computer they used the OS plus all the Adobe software, were pirated. They 'coudn't survive' if they had to pay for registration. But of course my estimate was for home use. Microsoft can now detect a pirated machine and completely disable it from being used. All that's needed is a connection to the internet. For anyone wanting not to go through many 'format and replace all' scenarios, they would be wise to pay for XP. Which may explain why I've recently come across more Mac users; and why I started my straw poll. I simply ask why they switched and whether they were using pirated OS and software. Generally the reason given was 'viruses and needing to regularly restore'. The 'Yes' to the second question usually comes in a tone like 'do you think I'm stupid, why would I pay so much for something I can get for free'. I've never bothered to delve into exactly what version of OS they were running. Even hacked copies from China don't securely bypass MS's latest copy protection. If you don't believe me, just try getting one of the latest security updates from MS on a hacked version of XP and see what happens. Again, this might explain why I'm coming across more Mac users. Maybe they don't understand that the real reason the computer stops working is not because of a virus but because they are not using an illegal OS. OTOH, Apple has no copy protection on their software, so my *GUESS* is that OSX is pirated more often (% wise) than WinXP. I have a separate registered version of WinXP for each PC I have (5). Not to mention, it's hard nowadays to EVEN BUY a computer without XP already installed. On my straw poll I went for 50% because basically anyone I come across with a Win laptop will have a legal copy of Win installed because 'no name brand' laptops are rare. But few people I come across have name brand desktops, they are custom built and come fully loaded with all the pirated software you could want - and still cost less than a Dell. One good think about XP, is they don't hit you up every 18 months for another $125 for a new OS with minor changes like Apple does. Yes, not one of my favourite things about Apple either, so I have to time the upgrade for the 7 computers I have at home carefully. But I was wondering if you could tell me, currently my 18 month outlay for Antivirus software is $0. If I were running Windows XP would you recommend I run Antivirus software (actually I can't log onto my work's VPN unless they can detect one of several 'acceptable' Antivirus programs are running - or I use a Mac) and what that would cost me:-) Now I'm not sure whether the Linux revolution is being fueled by the geek factor or by MS driving them there because if you can't afford to pay for an OS you can't afford it. If you can't steal it then I guess people HAVE to look elsewhere. Generally I think pirating is like drugs. If you don't do it you're blissfully unaware as to how prevelant it is. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Mark, I don't disagree with anything you say. I only disagree with early comments regarding Mac marketshare. best, Chipp On 6/29/06, Mark Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OTOH, Chipp, wouldn't it make more sense for developers be more interested in installed base, rather than the last years market share? (Not that I have any idea what those figures might be). And even then, if you're developing in a particular area, these installed base/market share figures can be wildly different anyway. I mean, no-one can seriously deny that the majority of the world is using Windows, but this does not at all mean that the other OS's should simply be ignored by the business-minded developer. I know you know that, and I know that this list is hardly a place where the Macintosh needs much defending, but I think the point is worth making. After all, Rev's cross platform ability is one of it's biggest plus-points for many here. Not that it's a perfect metaphor, but while Toyota is obviously a much bigger company than BMW, is a BMW dealership necessarily a worse business than a Toyota dealership? (I read somewhere that BMWs market share is around 1 to 2%). ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
Kay, I suppose if you stood outside Cupertino, your straw poll would have Macs represented even higher ;-) That's of course the problem with straw polls. They're not very reliable when the basis is from one's own perspective. I use AVG antivirus (free) and haven't had a single problem on any of my many WinXP computers in years. Of course I keep them up-to-date, which it sounds like many of your straw users can't do as they aren't using a current version. On 6/29/06, Kay C Lan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which may explain why I've recently come across more Mac users; and why I started my straw poll. I simply ask why they switched and whether they were using pirated OS and software. Generally the reason given was 'viruses and needing to regularly restore'. The 'Yes' to the second question usually comes in a tone like 'do you think I'm stupid, why would I pay so much for something I can get for free'. I've never bothered to delve into exactly what version of OS they were running. Can I then surmise they don't pay for Mac OS either? Interesting people you find in your straw poll. Certainly not reflective of the millions of users who have paid for XP. Virtually every Dell, Gateway, Compaq, Sony, HP, IBM desktop and laptop have a licensed and paid for version of XP. I imagine if you don't include them in your straw poll, you will certainly get biased information. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
OK OK OK. the horse is dead now. Please stop. Mark, I don't disagree with anything you say. I only disagree with early comments regarding Mac marketshare. best, Chipp -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Market Share
I'm just replying to issues raised by others. No need to be snippy. On 6/29/06, Stephen Barncard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK OK OK. the horse is dead now. Please stop. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
