Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
Still, you will have those who are learning it for the first time (e.g., my heart surgeon previously mentioned, children, etc.) for whom a single buttoned mouse is preferrable. Also -- for how many of the 'average' users will right-clicking be well understood? While learnability is important, learning happens exactly once. From then on it's all about productivity for the rest of one's computing life. -Yup, which goes on to translate as if learning doesn't happen... hence the importance of the uni-button mouse. It is agreed that 2- and 3- and n-button mice are for advanced audiences' and their productivity enhancements... if they don't learn uni-button mice, well, ... you have Chipp's proposition. By providing a mouse that people's productivity can grow with, Apple may indeed be risking the learning curve for a subset of their market. But given Apple's dedication to learnability I have to trust their judgement on this. --I agree with this. It functions as a uni-button mouse but adapts for a multi-button mouse user. Very Apple. Besides, even if I disagreed with them, would they listen to me? --In singular, I don't know. In aggregate, yes (witness the furor over the 'candy' apple doing nothing in the menu bar in the OS X beta). Another issue I have with the right-clicking is that it sometimes seriously violates Schneiderman's articulation of the direct manipulation paradigm in that the user can sometimes right-click on nothing in the middle of nowhere. Where in a modern GUI is nowhere? Even the Desktop is a place, and has properties. --That's an abstraction, not a concrete thing. Right-clicking on _nothing_ violates the concept. The articulation is 'visible items of interest' in which nothing is not an item of interest. --And, in any case, the purpose (unless anyone can correct me; corrections clearly sought) is that right-clicking is for a short-cut. The problem is that on Window side, too often it is suggested as the ONLY route. --I have no problems with short-cuts. As long as more conventional solutions are provided. That way, both (or all) camps are provided for. Apple's new mouse a multi-button mouse in terms of functionality. Whether Apple succeeds in a cleaner design to provide that functionality, or instead confuses people by making the delineation between left and right unclear, remains to be seen. Sometimes they get it right (the iPod wheel) and sometimes not (the hockey puck iMac mouse). --I sincerely doubt that Apple can make left versus right-clicking any more confusing than it already is. What is important is that it remain a secondary access rather than a primary access to commands, info., etc. --Here's the gist of my argument: (1) You see something of interest; (2) You click on it; (3) Something happens. You (and/or others) would seem to suggest that it's better that: (1) You see something Or a void (2) You click on something Or the void (3) Something happens Or something else happens And, for the user, either what they want happens or they get confused. It is inarguable that, for expert users, anything exceeding 1 mouse button is 'expert' and hence more productive (even up to an 8-button chording device for court reporters). The question is that, where for x = 1 + n, what does n equal? For Windows (semi-expert) users, the answer is clearly n=1. But for unix users, it is n=2. For other expert users, it us n=7. Where is the line to be drawn? Clearly as n gets larger, so does the possibility for error/confusion. More simply put, how would the legion of Windows users feel about the imposition of a mouse button = 3 feel? My Windows students indicate tha N=1 (thus, x= 1+1) is the correct number of buttons. Less than that is lame, more than that is confusing. Unix students indicate that n should = 2 (thus, 1 +2 = 3) mouse buttons. Less restricts expert usage, more would be confusing. Hence my argument. Judy ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
Alex Tweedly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And the one-key keyboard. Hardly any typing mistakes using that :-) The one you write on it with a pen? -- Revolutionario (not so much) With a Newton MP130, waiting for syncing between [Newton] Notes and my [Rev] Journal ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
Judy, You're confusing how hard something is to learn, versus how hard it is to use day in and day out. It's proven highly modal systems are the easiest to learn (ATM machine), but you wouldn't want a bank teller to have to use one 8 hours a day! In fact, when the Mac first came out (I purchased the first one in Houston), it was unique in it's mostly non-modal approach, and NOT intuitive in the least to use. Of course, once one took the time to 'learn' the interface, productivity soared. -Chipp Judy Perry wrote: Every day there are people who are new to computers who are learning to use them. I once had a retired cardiac surgeon take the 'how to turn it on' class. It happened to be on the PC platform. He got so confused over the two buttons that he ended up dropping the class. Clearly, he was not a stupid man. And then there's children still learning their left from their right. And then there's the elderly, with perhaps diminishing fine motor control (this was one of several issues at play with respect to the surgeon). ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: [OT] Pigs Fly
As someone who has not used a Mac in 12 years, and has never used any system ending in 'nix'... I have to say that right-clicking is completely ingrained in my thinking. If I want to add a shortcut to the desktop, I right-click on the desktop. If I want to open an explorer window, I right-click on the Start button. And this has translated to my programming. All of my software uses right-clicking all over the place. My spreadsheet objects use right-clicking on the row and column buttons to get row and column options, and uses left-click and drag for moving the rows and columns around. Other folks using my software have not complained about having to right-click - but then, they are all using it on Windows as well, and are undoubtedly used to right-clicking. This sounds funny, but I think I would find it much more difficult to create a convenient interface without using the right-click. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Perry Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 2:22 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: [OT] Pigs Fly Still, you will have those who are learning it for the first time (e.g., my heart surgeon previously mentioned, children, etc.) for whom a single buttoned mouse is preferrable. Also -- for how many of the 'average' users will right-clicking be well understood? While learnability is important, learning happens exactly once. From then on it's all about productivity for the rest of one's computing life. -Yup, which goes on to translate as if learning doesn't happen... hence the importance of the uni-button mouse. It is agreed that 2- and 3- and n-button mice are for advanced audiences' and their productivity enhancements... if they don't learn uni-button mice, well, ... you have Chipp's proposition. By providing a mouse that people's productivity can grow with, Apple may indeed be risking the learning curve for a subset of their market. But given Apple's dedication to learnability I have to trust their judgement on this. --I agree with this. It functions as a uni-button mouse but adapts for a multi-button mouse user. Very Apple. Besides, even if I disagreed with them, would they listen to me? --In singular, I don't know. In aggregate, yes (witness the furor over the 'candy' apple doing nothing in the menu bar in the OS X beta). Another issue I have with the right-clicking is that it sometimes seriously violates Schneiderman's articulation of the direct manipulation paradigm in that the user can sometimes right-click on nothing in the middle of nowhere. Where in a modern GUI is nowhere? Even the Desktop is a place, and has properties. --That's an abstraction, not a concrete thing. Right-clicking on _nothing_ violates the concept. The articulation is 'visible items of interest' in which nothing is not an item of interest. --And, in any case, the purpose (unless anyone can correct me; corrections clearly sought) is that right-clicking is for a short-cut. The problem is that on Window side, too often it is suggested as the ONLY route. --I have no problems with short-cuts. As long as more conventional solutions are provided. That way, both (or all) camps are provided for. Apple's new mouse a multi-button mouse in terms of functionality. Whether Apple succeeds in a cleaner design to provide that functionality, or instead confuses people by making the delineation between left and right unclear, remains to be seen. Sometimes they get it right (the iPod wheel) and sometimes not (the hockey puck iMac mouse). --I sincerely doubt that Apple can make left versus right-clicking any more confusing than it already is. What is important is that it remain a secondary access rather than a primary access to commands, info., etc. --Here's the gist of my argument: (1) You see something of interest; (2) You click on it; (3) Something happens. You (and/or others) would seem to suggest that it's better that: (1) You see something Or a void (2) You click on something Or the void (3) Something happens Or something else happens And, for the user, either what they want happens or they get confused. It is inarguable that, for expert users, anything exceeding 1 mouse button is 'expert' and hence more productive (even up to an 8-button chording device for court reporters). The question is that, where for x = 1 + n, what does n equal? For Windows (semi-expert) users, the answer is clearly n=1. But for unix users, it is n=2. For other expert users, it us n=7. Where is the line to be drawn? Clearly as n gets larger, so does the possibility for error/confusion. More simply put, how would the legion of Windows users feel about the imposition of a mouse button = 3 feel? My Windows students indicate tha N=1 (thus, x= 1+1) is the correct number of buttons. Less than that is lame, more than that is confusing. Unix students indicate that n should = 2 (thus, 1 +2 = 3) mouse buttons. Less
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
I use both PC's and Mac's so I believe I have a balanced view. As far as I am concerned, right-clicking is an extra. Anything in a contextual menu must be also available under the normal menus. The contextual right-click simply throws up immediate access to a choice selection. No big deal. You can happily ignore right-clicking and live without them (like ignoring keyboard shortcuts), but life is much easier with them IF they are well designed. My father started on his first computer (a Mac) aged 78 . After 2 years he still didn't use keyboard shortcuts. Then he got a PC. After only a couple of hours he decided he liked right-click contextual menus because [1] they are visual and [2] show him what's important at that point. He still doesn't use keyboard shortcuts on either machine! 2p /H ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
Ah, yes, the famous VIECAWP -- Vertically Integrated Easy-Correcting Analog Word Processor. AKA pencil. On Aug 3, 2005, at 12:16 AM, Dom wrote: Alex Tweedly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And the one-key keyboard. Hardly any typing mistakes using that :-) The one you write on it with a pen? -- Revolutionario (not so much) With a Newton MP130, waiting for syncing between [Newton] Notes and my [Rev] Journal ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ~~ Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought From http://www.revolutionpros.com, Click My Stuff ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
A number of times I have been called on to help novice computer users with problems on their PCs. When I ask them to right click on something, they invariable had never used the right mouse button. From then on, every time I ask them to click on something, they ask right or left button? There is a lot to be said for simplicity. Apple did a lot of user testing to determine a one-button mouse is less confusing, but as Richard points out, computer novices are becoming more and more extinct... At 07:17 PM 8/2/2005, you wrote: Judy Perry wrote: Whew! I'm feeling better already. I'm in agreement with Raskin on the uni-button mouse being preferrable for error-reduction. Three factors come into play, with error-reduction being one of them. The other is productivity, and a third being learnability. I have no doubt Raskin got it right with error-reduction, and of course a single-button mouse will score higher on learnability by virtue of having less to learn. But the question manufacturers face in the 21st century is: Does our audience today have enough experience with mice to use a multi-button mouse more productively than a single-button mouse? Apple seems to have answered that question well. The single-button mouse was revolutionary for adoption of modern GUIs -- thank you Mr. Engelbart. But the majority of today's computer purchasers have previous experience with computing, are quite comfortable with mice, and can take advantage of the productivity gains of multi-button mice with far less trouble than yesterday's newbies. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
This reminds me of the (probably apocryphal) tech support story of the woman who bought her first computer, brought it home, and called in because she couldn't get it to do anything. She said she kept pressing on the foot pedal (like a sowing machine), but nothing would happen... At 10:06 PM 8/2/2005, you wrote: Chipp, I use two-button mice when I teach on the PC platform. I've played around with 3-button mice a bit. I have a 4-button programmable Kensington trackball (and a two-button Stingray trackball that offers true right-clickability). In addition to reading and agreeing with Raskin (although I think he was a bit of a nutter on the whole modality issue), my observations are partly based on nearly a decade of teaching new computer users how to use a computer. And it's definitely been a problem. I'm not certain I understand your argument about not using a computer reducing errors. Of course that's true. But that's not the issue. It's which is easier to learn? A one-button mouse or a two button mouse or a three button mouse... or an n-button mouse? Englebert, of course, ultimately ended up preferring something else altogether to a uni-button mouse. I think it was a foot-based control. I once had an English teacher stricken by polio in his youth who steered his car using a foot-based device... Judy On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Chipp Walters wrote: Judy, Good duck and cover ;-) Never using a computer in the first place reduces errors to nill...does that make it preferrable? Just wondering, how much experience do you have with multi-button mice? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
On Aug 3, 2005, at 8:55 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The contextual right-click simply throws up immediate access to a choice selection. No big deal. Exactly. The whole how-many-buttons argument is dizzying to me. A two button mouse has ADDED functionality, not supplanted or changed functionality. Click a two button mouse with your index finger only, and its a one-button mouse. Nothing could be simpler. Don't use the scroll wheel, same thing... one button functionality without a scroll. If you're smart enough to use a computer, you're smart enough to simplify your experience by using your index finger to click, if that's what you need to do. If you don't want scrolling and contextual menus, just use your index finger. (JUYIF!) I just don't get it. Mark ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
Or the one about the woman whose cupholder on her computer was broken?? :-D Judy On Wed, 3 Aug 2005, Peter T. Evensen wrote: This reminds me of the (probably apocryphal) tech support story of the woman who bought her first computer, brought it home, and called in because she couldn't get it to do anything. She said she kept pressing on the foot pedal (like a sowing machine), but nothing would happen... ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
What really drives me crazy is when a left handed person customizes their mouse and switches the buttons. The left button becomes the contextual button and the right button is for selecting. Since it is all done in software there are no hints that the mouse is different other than it is almost always left of the keyboard. Bill On Aug 3, 2005, at 9:56 AM, Peter T. Evensen wrote: A number of times I have been called on to help novice computer users with problems on their PCs. When I ask them to right click on something, they invariable had never used the right mouse button. From then on, every time I ask them to click on something, they ask right or left button? There is a lot to be said for simplicity. Apple did a lot of user testing to determine a one- button mouse is less confusing, but as Richard points out, computer novices are becoming more and more extinct... ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
Yup, Or when, in a teaching situation, some little gremlin geek-in-training does likewise with scattered mice in the lab and you're trying to teach computer novices... Judy On Wed, 3 Aug 2005, Bill Vlahos wrote: What really drives me crazy is when a left handed person customizes their mouse and switches the buttons. The left button becomes the contextual button and the right button is for selecting. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
I heard of one company that removes all the CD drives to eliminate this problem At 12:03 PM 8/3/2005, you wrote: Or the one about the woman whose cupholder on her computer was broken?? :-D Judy On Wed, 3 Aug 2005, Peter T. Evensen wrote: This reminds me of the (probably apocryphal) tech support story of the woman who bought her first computer, brought it home, and called in because she couldn't get it to do anything. She said she kept pressing on the foot pedal (like a sowing machine), but nothing would happen... ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: [OT] Pigs Fly
Well... I think maybe the problem arises with inconsiderate programmers (I am referring to myself here, none of you guys) who create functionalities that can only be accessed by right-clicking. This leaves one-button mouse users out in the cold. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Swindell Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 1:02 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: [OT] Pigs Fly On Aug 3, 2005, at 8:55 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The contextual right-click simply throws up immediate access to a choice selection. No big deal. Exactly. The whole how-many-buttons argument is dizzying to me. A two button mouse has ADDED functionality, not supplanted or changed functionality. Click a two button mouse with your index finger only, and its a one-button mouse. Nothing could be simpler. Don't use the scroll wheel, same thing... one button functionality without a scroll. If you're smart enough to use a computer, you're smart enough to simplify your experience by using your index finger to click, if that's what you need to do. If you don't want scrolling and contextual menus, just use your index finger. (JUYIF!) I just don't get it. Mark ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
It's worth remembering that since system 8, Mac single-button mouse users can control-click to get the equivalent of a right mouse-button click. Revolution handles this fine, treating both actions as a mouse button 3 event. If you use a 2 button mouse on a mac you can right-click. With a one button mouse you just control-click to get the same result. So there is usually no real need to duplicate the functionality. Still it can be a pain when writing the documentation. Martin Baxter Lynch, Jonathan wrote: Well... I think maybe the problem arises with inconsiderate programmers (I am referring to myself here, none of you guys) who create functionalities that can only be accessed by right-clicking. This leaves one-button mouse users out in the cold. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Swindell Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 1:02 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: [OT] Pigs Fly On Aug 3, 2005, at 8:55 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The contextual right-click simply throws up immediate access to a choice selection. No big deal. Exactly. The whole how-many-buttons argument is dizzying to me. A two button mouse has ADDED functionality, not supplanted or changed functionality. Click a two button mouse with your index finger only, and its a one-button mouse. Nothing could be simpler. Don't use the scroll wheel, same thing... one button functionality without a scroll. If you're smart enough to use a computer, you're smart enough to simplify your experience by using your index finger to click, if that's what you need to do. If you don't want scrolling and contextual menus, just use your index finger. (JUYIF!) I just don't get it. Mark ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: [OT] Pigs Fly
Ah, good point - and by playing around I see that the little key with the windows symbol allows for the same thing on a PC. Only, when that key is released it brings up the start menu - so I should see if I can block that. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 2:00 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: [OT] Pigs Fly It's worth remembering that since system 8, Mac single-button mouse users can control-click to get the equivalent of a right mouse-button click. Revolution handles this fine, treating both actions as a mouse button 3 event. If you use a 2 button mouse on a mac you can right-click. With a one button mouse you just control-click to get the same result. So there is usually no real need to duplicate the functionality. Still it can be a pain when writing the documentation. Martin Baxter Lynch, Jonathan wrote: Well... I think maybe the problem arises with inconsiderate programmers (I am referring to myself here, none of you guys) who create functionalities that can only be accessed by right-clicking. This leaves one-button mouse users out in the cold. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Swindell Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 1:02 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: [OT] Pigs Fly On Aug 3, 2005, at 8:55 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The contextual right-click simply throws up immediate access to a choice selection. No big deal. Exactly. The whole how-many-buttons argument is dizzying to me. A two button mouse has ADDED functionality, not supplanted or changed functionality. Click a two button mouse with your index finger only, and its a one-button mouse. Nothing could be simpler. Don't use the scroll wheel, same thing... one button functionality without a scroll. If you're smart enough to use a computer, you're smart enough to simplify your experience by using your index finger to click, if that's what you need to do. If you don't want scrolling and contextual menus, just use your index finger. (JUYIF!) I just don't get it. Mark ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
Martin Baxter wrote: It's worth remembering that since system 8, Mac single-button mouse users can control-click to get the equivalent of a right mouse-button click. Revolution handles this fine, treating both actions as a mouse button 3 event. If you use a 2 button mouse on a mac you can right-click. With a one button mouse you just control-click to get the same result. So there is usually no real need to duplicate the functionality. Still it can be a pain when writing the documentation. What's even more of a pain is that Ctrl-click is a common usage on Windows (add/subtract single item to/from selection), so the naive Windows programmer (that's me) designs this into his apps. And his Mac users have no way to access this function :-( I guess one approach is to use Shift-click instead - but that means something different on Windows (extend existing selection up to this clicked item), darn it !! About once a day I curse this mis-feature of Rev's IDE on Windows. (Not that I have a solution - but it still gets a curse :-) -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 02/08/2005 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: [OT] Pigs Fly
The ctrl key on windows is not the same key as on mac... Remember, to check if the ctrl key is down, on windows, you use this statement: If the commandKey is down... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alex Tweedly Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 2:10 PM To: Brad Allen; How to use Revolution Subject: Re: [OT] Pigs Fly Martin Baxter wrote: It's worth remembering that since system 8, Mac single-button mouse users can control-click to get the equivalent of a right mouse-button click. Revolution handles this fine, treating both actions as a mouse button 3 event. If you use a 2 button mouse on a mac you can right-click. With a one button mouse you just control-click to get the same result. So there is usually no real need to duplicate the functionality. Still it can be a pain when writing the documentation. What's even more of a pain is that Ctrl-click is a common usage on Windows (add/subtract single item to/from selection), so the naive Windows programmer (that's me) designs this into his apps. And his Mac users have no way to access this function :-( I guess one approach is to use Shift-click instead - but that means something different on Windows (extend existing selection up to this clicked item), darn it !! About once a day I curse this mis-feature of Rev's IDE on Windows. (Not that I have a solution - but it still gets a curse :-) -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 02/08/2005 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: [OT] Pigs Fly
Hmmm It seems that trying to trap either rawkeyup or rawkeydown still does not prevent the start menu from being displayed when one releases the key with the little windows symbol on it. If there is no way to block it, then PC users with a single mousebutton would find it very annoying to do the pc equivalent of ctrl-clicking. Then again, maybe that would serve as an incentive for them to go and buy a better mouse. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lynch, Jonathan Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 2:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; How to use Revolution Subject: RE: [OT] Pigs Fly Ah, good point - and by playing around I see that the little key with the windows symbol allows for the same thing on a PC. Only, when that key is released it brings up the start menu - so I should see if I can block that. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin Baxter Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 2:00 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: [OT] Pigs Fly It's worth remembering that since system 8, Mac single-button mouse users can control-click to get the equivalent of a right mouse-button click. Revolution handles this fine, treating both actions as a mouse button 3 event. If you use a 2 button mouse on a mac you can right-click. With a one button mouse you just control-click to get the same result. So there is usually no real need to duplicate the functionality. Still it can be a pain when writing the documentation. Martin Baxter Lynch, Jonathan wrote: Well... I think maybe the problem arises with inconsiderate programmers (I am referring to myself here, none of you guys) who create functionalities that can only be accessed by right-clicking. This leaves one-button mouse users out in the cold. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Swindell Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 1:02 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: [OT] Pigs Fly On Aug 3, 2005, at 8:55 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The contextual right-click simply throws up immediate access to a choice selection. No big deal. Exactly. The whole how-many-buttons argument is dizzying to me. A two button mouse has ADDED functionality, not supplanted or changed functionality. Click a two button mouse with your index finger only, and its a one-button mouse. Nothing could be simpler. Don't use the scroll wheel, same thing... one button functionality without a scroll. If you're smart enough to use a computer, you're smart enough to simplify your experience by using your index finger to click, if that's what you need to do. If you don't want scrolling and contextual menus, just use your index finger. (JUYIF!) I just don't get it. Mark ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
Dan Shafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah, yes, the famous VIECAWP -- Vertically Integrated Easy-Correcting Analog Word Processor. AKA pencil. I didn't knew this one ;-) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
On Aug 2, 2005, at 5:12 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Just as I'd heard from Punxatawny Phil, the Prognosticator of Prognosticators, Apple is finally joining the rest of the industry in shipping a multi-button mouse for its customers: New Mouse for Macs Has Multiple Buttons http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ apple_s_new_mouse;_ylt=As1C3mk3YMOhH9.n16yV7fYDW7oF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04N W9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl It's not a multi-button mouse, it's a zero button mouse!!! :D less is more (it uses a touch sensor and it has a internal speaker for sound feedback... clever ain't it. Tech is derived from iPod scroll wheel tech.) Cheers andre PS: I want one! While somewhat trivial, this says two great things for us multi- platform developers: 1. We're now more motivated than ever to implement extensive right- click menus throughout our apps. These are often overlooked by Mac developers, but are a critical part of the Windows user experience and implementing them thoroughly in many case will raise the perceived professionalism of your Windows releases and increase sales. 2. Any time Apple moves beyond the old symptoms of NIH Syndrome and plays nice with the rest of the industry they should be applauded, as it makes our work as software designers much simpler. This is a healthy sign of organizational maturity, a clear acknowledgement that the industry and their audience has become more sophisticaed with mouse use since 1984. First MacTel, now multi-button mice. Now if only Windows would follow suit and correct the positions of their dialog box buttons we'd all be in platform-independence heaven. :) -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
Richard, Knowing Apple, the mouse will probably have a proprietary port - that only works on MacTels ;-) PL ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
On Aug 2, 2005, at 6:50 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Richard, Knowing Apple, the mouse will probably have a proprietary port - that only works on MacTels ;-) PL On the page they say its PC-Compatible... Andre ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- Andre Alves Garzia 2004 Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
Just joking, Andre. PL ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
On Aug 2, 2005, at 8:40 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just joking, Andre. PL ;-) (I am thinking if someone will write some software to reprogram the mouse randomly...) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- Andre Alves Garzia 2004 BRAZIL http://studio.soapdog.org ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly --a rose by any other name...
Folks, I hate to rain on your parade, but it IS a single button mouse. Apple goes to great pains to point this fact out, just so they can say they have not abandoned the single button mouse philosophy. There is a single button. The touch sensors are on the left and right sides (like holding down the control key when clicking the single button mouse now). I guess pushing on the scroll button clicks the mouse with neither right or left touch sensors activated, so it is a third kind of click. The side force sensor is not technically a button either. The whole mouse moves down to activate the button --it is one big button. The lengths a company will go to just to never admit they were wrong. All I can say, is: If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a rose... Dennis On Aug 2, 2005, at 4:16 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: On Aug 2, 2005, at 5:12 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Just as I'd heard from Punxatawny Phil, the Prognosticator of Prognosticators, Apple is finally joining the rest of the industry in shipping a multi-button mouse for its customers: New Mouse for Macs Has Multiple Buttons http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ apple_s_new_mouse;_ylt=As1C3mk3YMOhH9.n16yV7fYDW7oF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04 NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl It's not a multi-button mouse, it's a zero button mouse!!! :D less is more (it uses a touch sensor and it has a internal speaker for sound feedback... clever ain't it. Tech is derived from iPod scroll wheel tech.) Cheers andre PS: I want one! ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
Whew! I'm feeling better already. I'm in agreement with Raskin on the uni-button mouse being preferrable for error-reduction. (I know, I know: I'm ducking the expected onslaught of people who swear by the right-click with an eye on whether they'd be equally enthusiastic about using a Unix 3-button mouse or a court reporter's 8-button chording machine). Judy On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Andre Garzia wrote: It's not a multi-button mouse, it's a zero button mouse!!! :D less is more ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
Judy Perry wrote: Whew! I'm feeling better already. I'm in agreement with Raskin on the uni-button mouse being preferrable for error-reduction. Three factors come into play, with error-reduction being one of them. The other is productivity, and a third being learnability. I have no doubt Raskin got it right with error-reduction, and of course a single-button mouse will score higher on learnability by virtue of having less to learn. But the question manufacturers face in the 21st century is: Does our audience today have enough experience with mice to use a multi-button mouse more productively than a single-button mouse? Apple seems to have answered that question well. The single-button mouse was revolutionary for adoption of modern GUIs -- thank you Mr. Engelbart. But the majority of today's computer purchasers have previous experience with computing, are quite comfortable with mice, and can take advantage of the productivity gains of multi-button mice with far less trouble than yesterday's newbies. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
Judy Perry wrote: Whew! I'm feeling better already. I'm in agreement with Raskin on the uni-button mouse being preferrable for error-reduction. And the one-key keyboard. Hardly any typing mistakes using that :-) (I know, I know: I'm ducking the expected onslaught of people who swear by the right-click with an eye on whether they'd be equally enthusiastic about using a Unix 3-button mouse or a court reporter's 8-button chording machine). I learnt to use a mouse on a 3-button system - still, IMO, best for an expert, all-day user. But because neither Mac nor Win UIs support it well, there are few apps nowadays that take proper advantage of a third button, so it's not as big an advantage now as it used to be. (And I wouldn't give up my scroll wheel for it :-) -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 02/08/2005 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly --a rose by any other name...
They say it can act like a single button mouse if you like but it actually IS a multi-button mouse. I'll have to see it to see how well it works but there are sensors in the front for both a left and right mouse button action. It looks interesting. I really like my Kensington Optical Elite (scroll wheel multbutton) mouse. Hopefully Apple did a great job on this but we will just have to try it. The most interesting aspect to me is the advancement on the scroll wheel so that it moves in all directions. This could be really good if it is well done. The only real concern I have is in the feedback to the user of actions. A nice tactile feel and click is a good thing. I've never really liked the idea of sounds (like from a little speaker in the mouse) as the only feedback. We will have to try it to see. Bill On Aug 2, 2005, at 5:08 PM, Dennis Brown wrote: Folks, I hate to rain on your parade, but it IS a single button mouse. Apple goes to great pains to point this fact out, just so they can say they have not abandoned the single button mouse philosophy. There is a single button. The touch sensors are on the left and right sides (like holding down the control key when clicking the single button mouse now). I guess pushing on the scroll button clicks the mouse with neither right or left touch sensors activated, so it is a third kind of click. The side force sensor is not technically a button either. The whole mouse moves down to activate the button --it is one big button. The lengths a company will go to just to never admit they were wrong. All I can say, is: If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a rose... Dennis On Aug 2, 2005, at 4:16 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: On Aug 2, 2005, at 5:12 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Just as I'd heard from Punxatawny Phil, the Prognosticator of Prognosticators, Apple is finally joining the rest of the industry in shipping a multi-button mouse for its customers: New Mouse for Macs Has Multiple Buttons http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ apple_s_new_mouse;_ylt=As1C3mk3YMOhH9.n16yV7fYDW7oF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW0 4NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl It's not a multi-button mouse, it's a zero button mouse!!! :D less is more (it uses a touch sensor and it has a internal speaker for sound feedback... clever ain't it. Tech is derived from iPod scroll wheel tech.) Cheers andre PS: I want one! ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
Judy Perry wrote: Whew! I'm feeling better already. I'm in agreement with Raskin on the uni-button mouse being preferrable for error-reduction. Judy, Good duck and cover ;-) Never using a computer in the first place reduces errors to nill...does that make it preferrable? Just wondering, how much experience do you have with multi-button mice? best, Chipp ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly --a rose by any other name...
Bill Vlahos wrote: The only real concern I have is in the feedback to the user of actions. A nice tactile feel and click is a good thing. I've never really liked the idea of sounds (like from a little speaker in the mouse) as the only feedback. We will have to try it to see. I'm with you on that Bill! Not having any feedback, or click sensation, would IMO really make things difficult. Perhaps there's something else to the experience once you've tried it. As an Industrial Designer in a former life, I've spent a bit of time with HF testing labs and can say w/out a doubt, Apple's interface hardware products rarely scored above average. They always scored high in the 'cool factor.' One year I was asked by Business Week to be a judge for their annual design issue, and I believe we awarded Apple 2 or 3 prizes. But it was mostly for style, not substance. -Chipp ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
I knowe you and others doubtless believe this. So, a uni-button mouse scores higher on 2 out of 3. Not bad. As for 3, productivity, that's something that comes later, as an advanced skill, much as does a 3 button mouse or an 8-chord transcription device. As I'm guessing that the purpose of the right-click is to offer a short-hand access to a software's commands, it could be argued that keystroke-accelerator-comands are about as fast (slower, to be certain, unless you can tab to select items). Every day there are people who are new to computers who are learning to use them. I once had a retired cardiac surgeon take the 'how to turn it on' class. It happened to be on the PC platform. He got so confused over the two buttons that he ended up dropping the class. Clearly, he was not a stupid man. And then there's children still learning their left from their right. And then there's the elderly, with perhaps diminishing fine motor control (this was one of several issues at play with respect to the surgeon). I suppose a 2 (or 3, or ...) button mouse scores higher on productivity similar to how some people absolutely swear by an automatic transmission (predictably, I'm swearing _at_ it). Another issue I have with the right-clicking is that it sometimes seriously violates Schneiderman's articulation of the direct manipulation paradigm in that the user can sometimes right-click on nothing in the middle of nowhere. So, I'm happy to hear of another uni-button Apple mouse. People preferring a 2 (or 3 or...) button mouse can already buy them. (Kensington's trackball has up to 4 programmable buttons as you doubtless are aware). I wonder how well they sell? Doubtless, Kensington's not losing money, but still I wonder. And, for what it's worth, whenever we discuss this issue in class, only the unix geeks are (consistently) comfortable with a 3 button mouse. Judy On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Richard Gaskin wrote: Three factors come into play, with error-reduction being one of them. The other is productivity, and a third being learnability. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
Chipp, I use two-button mice when I teach on the PC platform. I've played around with 3-button mice a bit. I have a 4-button programmable Kensington trackball (and a two-button Stingray trackball that offers true right-clickability). In addition to reading and agreeing with Raskin (although I think he was a bit of a nutter on the whole modality issue), my observations are partly based on nearly a decade of teaching new computer users how to use a computer. And it's definitely been a problem. I'm not certain I understand your argument about not using a computer reducing errors. Of course that's true. But that's not the issue. It's which is easier to learn? A one-button mouse or a two button mouse or a three button mouse... or an n-button mouse? Englebert, of course, ultimately ended up preferring something else altogether to a uni-button mouse. I think it was a foot-based control. I once had an English teacher stricken by polio in his youth who steered his car using a foot-based device... Judy On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Chipp Walters wrote: Judy, Good duck and cover ;-) Never using a computer in the first place reduces errors to nill...does that make it preferrable? Just wondering, how much experience do you have with multi-button mice? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly --a rose by any other name...
That's an interesting observation... the deaf for years have been clamouring for such tactile devices, particularly for gaming, and the visually impaired for, well, just about everything else I suspect. 'Twould be nice... The puck sucked, though. But my kids like it (their hands are small enough). Judy On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Chipp Walters wrote: Bill Vlahos wrote: The only real concern I have is in the feedback to the user of actions. A nice tactile feel and click is a good thing. I've never really liked the idea of sounds (like from a little speaker in the mouse) as the only feedback. We will have to try it to see. I'm with you on that Bill! Not having any feedback, or click sensation, would IMO really make things difficult. Perhaps there's something else to the experience once you've tried it. As an Industrial Designer in a former life, I've spent a bit of time with HF testing labs and can say w/out a doubt, Apple's interface hardware products rarely scored above average. They always scored high in the 'cool factor.' One year I was asked by Business Week to be a judge for their annual design issue, and I believe we awarded Apple 2 or 3 prizes. But it was mostly for style, not substance. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
Judy Perry wrote: I knowe you and others doubtless believe this. So, a uni-button mouse scores higher on 2 out of 3. Not bad. As for 3, productivity, that's something that comes later, as an advanced skill The majority of people who buy computers today have used one before. There are no doubt many who haven't (likely the majority of the world's people), but from a manufacturer's point of view the main question is Who's buying our boxes and what can we do for them? So among those likely to buy computers, in the 21st century apparently Apple believes the market has matured enough to warrant two-button functionality. While learnability is important, learning happens exactly once. From then on it's all about productivity for the rest of one's computing life. By providing a mouse that people's productivity can grow with, Apple may indeed be risking the learning curve for a subset of their market. But given Apple's dedication to learnability I have to trust their judgement on this. Besides, even if I disagreed with them, would they listen to me? The multi-button functionality is about to become the universal standard, whether we disagree with Apple or not. It would seem that the minority who may have trouble learning computing with multi-button mouse functionality are the ones Apple is now suggesting purchase a specialized mouse. Another issue I have with the right-clicking is that it sometimes seriously violates Schneiderman's articulation of the direct manipulation paradigm in that the user can sometimes right-click on nothing in the middle of nowhere. Where in a modern GUI is nowhere? Even the Desktop is a place, and has properties. So, I'm happy to hear of another uni-button Apple mouse. Apple's new mouse a multi-button mouse in terms of functionality. Whether Apple succeeds in a cleaner design to provide that functionality, or instead confuses people by making the delineation between left and right unclear, remains to be seen. Sometimes they get it right (the iPod wheel) and sometimes not (the hockey puck iMac mouse). -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
I gotta say after teaching folks how to use computers since back in jr high in the mid 70s, if you can simplify something when you start out, it helps. folks that have pointed out that not everyone is a computer expert that buys a computer is very true. I still come across folks that have had and used computers for years and they still dont understand many aspects of their system, including the right click. Apple has always drawn the type of user that has the desire/talent/interest to do something, but doesn't always care much (at least in the beginning) about the machine and how it works, so getting them doing something fast has kept them a profit making company when most others have been knocked out of the pc market long ago... Apple has continued to mine the PC market for folks that get frustrated with the complexity of their pc and want something more direct. I dare say that apple has it right, start simple and when you advance you can buy a multibutton mouse that fits your brain (mine has 5). Apple users are smart enough to realize this, pc users, well... now I'll duck! sorry apple bashing poking gets a response from me. i have had too many good, fairly controlled situations comparing the two platforms head to head with striking results. jeff reynolds ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Pigs Fly
Jeffrey Reynolds wrote: I dare say that apple has it right, start simple and when you advance you can buy a multibutton mouse that fits your brain (mine has 5). Apple users are smart enough to realize this, pc users, well... now I'll duck! sorry apple bashing poking gets a response from me. I haven't seen much bashing here. Apple has decided to move toward shipping mice with multi-button functionality. We can fight them or support them, but it's what they're doing just the same. The senior editor of Macworld, Jason Snell, reviews it here: http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2005/08/mightymouse/index.php -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
