Re: [Neo4j] HTML5 graph viz library
Jacob, yes, spatial visualization based on OpenLayers and Neo4j Spatial would be something, at least as one possible layout algo that you could plug in. How are you thinking around arbitrary non-spatial info? Not sure how good the layout performance of OpenLayers is. I remember working with Google Maps JavaScript back some years ago, and we had the same problems, over a couple of hundred markers we needed to start aggregating things on the server side due to the slowness of client side rendering. I think it is a good widget to pull in (think of it as a special layout) and keep that in mind! Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - Your high performance graph database. http://www.thoughtmade.com - Scandinavia's coolest Bring-a-Thing party. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Jacob Hansson ja...@voltvoodoo.com wrote: Another idea for visualizing massive graphs on the web would be to use the neo4j spatial project. Coupling it with some layout algorithm, perhaps we could pre-render huge graphs, and use the open layers stuff to allow users to explore them.. Den 15 jan 2011 08.57 skrev Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com: Yes, this in combination with server side filtering could be good. Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - Your high performance graph database. http://www.thoughtmade.com - Scandinavia's coolest Bring-a-Thing party. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 7:30 AM, Jacob Hansson ja...@voltvoodoo.com wrote: Saw that, seems really cool. I think they use webworkers when available, so this might be able to do bigger graphs in webworker-enabled browsers.. def worth some attention! Den 14 jan 2011 13.48 skrev Emil Eifrem e...@neotechnology.com: Mebbe something: http://arborjs.org/ -- Emil Eifrém, CEO [e...@neotechnology.com] Neo Technology, www.neotechnology.com Cell: +46 733 462 271 | US: 206 403 8808 http://blogs.neotechnology.com/emil http://twitter.com/emileifrem ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] HTML5 graph viz library
Sorry Peter, misread you. What I was thinking was to render non-spatial graphs with neo4j spatial. A layout algorithm would calculate the coordinates of each node we want to visualize. That way we can view really big graphs in the browser, since the layout-work is already done by the server. Den 15 jan 2011 14.28 skrev Jacob Hansson ja...@voltvoodoo.com: Yeah, you couldn't do very much with the markers. But you could pre-render millions of nodes on the server, and serve it as a spatial layer as if it was a map. Geoserver would slice it up, allowing zooming and panning just like a map. Then you would add interactivity on top of the rendered image like google does with google maps. It would be difficult to allow moving nodes and so on, but clicking on them and adding relations etc would not be that difficult.. Especially cool if coupled with the styling available with the current geo stack. Imagine for instance visualizing the corporation ownership and board members dataset, enabling cheap and super-easy access to the entire visualized graph in any browser.. :) ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] HTML5 graph viz library
Intriguing option. So you assign virtual locations based on the layouting algorithm, and then use neo4j-spatial's 'export to PNG' capabilities, which also makes use of SLD for styling (geoserver-like styling, using geotools inside, of course). This is certainly not an option I had every considered, but I can no reason it would not work. Could you tell us more about the domain? We could certainly give suggestions on approaches on how to pick a coordinate system, and how to style the results in the rendered image. I am currently using the amanzi-sld Ruby gem for styling layers (just a wrapper DLS on top of SLD XML making it easier). I have only tested this with real geographic data (streets, rivers, lakes, parks, etc.) It would be cool to see it in use on something outside that domain. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Jacob Hansson ja...@voltvoodoo.com wrote: Sorry Peter, misread you. What I was thinking was to render non-spatial graphs with neo4j spatial. A layout algorithm would calculate the coordinates of each node we want to visualize. That way we can view really big graphs in the browser, since the layout-work is already done by the server. Den 15 jan 2011 14.28 skrev Jacob Hansson ja...@voltvoodoo.com: Yeah, you couldn't do very much with the markers. But you could pre-render millions of nodes on the server, and serve it as a spatial layer as if it was a map. Geoserver would slice it up, allowing zooming and panning just like a map. Then you would add interactivity on top of the rendered image like google does with google maps. It would be difficult to allow moving nodes and so on, but clicking on them and adding relations etc would not be that difficult.. Especially cool if coupled with the styling available with the current geo stack. Imagine for instance visualizing the corporation ownership and board members dataset, enabling cheap and super-easy access to the entire visualized graph in any browser.. :) ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] HTML5 graph viz library
Yep. I slippy graph like google maps - with details an different zoom levels! Awesome! On 15 January 2011 15:58, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Mhh, interesting! I wonder if there is any support for using e.g. GeoTools to render arbitrary layouts apart from spatial. Would be worth to investigate. The nice thing is that these algos support, as you mention, zomming into a static structure, and espose more and more detail on every layer. Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - Your high performance graph database. http://www.thoughtmade.com - Scandinavia's coolest Bring-a-Thing party. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Jacob Hansson ja...@voltvoodoo.com wrote: Sorry Peter, misread you. What I was thinking was to render non-spatial graphs with neo4j spatial. A layout algorithm would calculate the coordinates of each node we want to visualize. That way we can view really big graphs in the browser, since the layout-work is already done by the server. Den 15 jan 2011 14.28 skrev Jacob Hansson ja...@voltvoodoo.com: Yeah, you couldn't do very much with the markers. But you could pre-render millions of nodes on the server, and serve it as a spatial layer as if it was a map. Geoserver would slice it up, allowing zooming and panning just like a map. Then you would add interactivity on top of the rendered image like google does with google maps. It would be difficult to allow moving nodes and so on, but clicking on them and adding relations etc would not be that difficult.. Especially cool if coupled with the styling available with the current geo stack. Imagine for instance visualizing the corporation ownership and board members dataset, enabling cheap and super-easy access to the entire visualized graph in any browser.. :) ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] HTML5 graph viz library
In this case, the graph layout could be computed server side by something like graphviz or so, and then sliced into zoom level information. Then interactivity can be added via open layers . However, of course the question is how long it takes to calculate the layout for say 100.000 nodes. After that, the basic layout info is more or less static. Still, very interesting to think of this kind of mixed approach for big visualizations, switching to dynamic solutions under a certain threshold, like 500 nodes or so. WDYT? /peter On Saturday, January 15, 2011, Mark javam...@gmail.com wrote: Yep. I slippy graph like google maps - with details an different zoom levels! Awesome! On 15 January 2011 15:58, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Mhh, interesting! I wonder if there is any support for using e.g. GeoTools to render arbitrary layouts apart from spatial. Would be worth to investigate. The nice thing is that these algos support, as you mention, zomming into a static structure, and espose more and more detail on every layer. Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - Your high performance graph database. http://www.thoughtmade.com - Scandinavia's coolest Bring-a-Thing party. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Jacob Hansson ja...@voltvoodoo.com wrote: Sorry Peter, misread you. What I was thinking was to render non-spatial graphs with neo4j spatial. A layout algorithm would calculate the coordinates of each node we want to visualize. That way we can view really big graphs in the browser, since the layout-work is already done by the server. Den 15 jan 2011 14.28 skrev Jacob Hansson ja...@voltvoodoo.com: Yeah, you couldn't do very much with the markers. But you could pre-render millions of nodes on the server, and serve it as a spatial layer as if it was a map. Geoserver would slice it up, allowing zooming and panning just like a map. Then you would add interactivity on top of the rendered image like google does with google maps. It would be difficult to allow moving nodes and so on, but clicking on them and adding relations etc would not be that difficult.. Especially cool if coupled with the styling available with the current geo stack. Imagine for instance visualizing the corporation ownership and board members dataset, enabling cheap and super-easy access to the entire visualized graph in any browser.. :) ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] HTML5 graph viz library
Tied in with my SVG question (which should be posted shortly), you can move some of the UI rendering to the server as well, and with SVG you could cleanly integrate data + UI elements in what is sent back to the browser. I think a mix of browser smarts to control client-side rendering (zoom levels, layers, navigation, etc.) and server side rendering for the big picture makes a ton of sense. -Original Message- From: user-boun...@lists.neo4j.org [mailto:user-boun...@lists.neo4j.org] On Behalf Of Peter Neubauer Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 11:35 AM To: Neo4j user discussions Subject: Re: [Neo4j] HTML5 graph viz library In this case, the graph layout could be computed server side by something like graphviz or so, and then sliced into zoom level information. Then interactivity can be added via open layers . However, of course the question is how long it takes to calculate the layout for say 100.000 nodes. After that, the basic layout info is more or less static. Still, very interesting to think of this kind of mixed approach for big visualizations, switching to dynamic solutions under a certain threshold, like 500 nodes or so. WDYT? /peter On Saturday, January 15, 2011, Mark javam...@gmail.com wrote: Yep. I slippy graph like google maps - with details an different zoom levels! Awesome! On 15 January 2011 15:58, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Mhh, interesting! I wonder if there is any support for using e.g. GeoTools to render arbitrary layouts apart from spatial. Would be worth to investigate. The nice thing is that these algos support, as you mention, zomming into a static structure, and espose more and more detail on every layer. Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - Your high performance graph database. http://www.thoughtmade.com - Scandinavia's coolest Bring-a-Thing party. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Jacob Hansson ja...@voltvoodoo.com wrote: Sorry Peter, misread you. What I was thinking was to render non-spatial graphs with neo4j spatial. A layout algorithm would calculate the coordinates of each node we want to visualize. That way we can view really big graphs in the browser, since the layout-work is already done by the server. Den 15 jan 2011 14.28 skrev Jacob Hansson ja...@voltvoodoo.com: Yeah, you couldn't do very much with the markers. But you could pre-render millions of nodes on the server, and serve it as a spatial layer as if it was a map. Geoserver would slice it up, allowing zooming and panning just like a map. Then you would add interactivity on top of the rendered image like google does with google maps. It would be difficult to allow moving nodes and so on, but clicking on them and adding relations etc would not be that difficult.. Especially cool if coupled with the styling available with the current geo stack. Imagine for instance visualizing the corporation ownership and board members dataset, enabling cheap and super-easy access to the entire visualized graph in any browser.. :) ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] HTML5 graph viz library
Out of curiosity, has anyone looked at re-doing the rendering engine of this in SVG? Now that SVG will be officially supported in IE9, its practicality for web apps is much more substantial. Issues like hit testing/item addressability/animation, conditional display based on zoom level, and other characteristics of smart graphs such as these are generally MUCH easier to do in SVG than by trying to write a ton of JavaScript code to render onto a canvas. -Original Message- From: user-boun...@lists.neo4j.org [mailto:user-boun...@lists.neo4j.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 11:04 AM To: Neo4j user discussions Subject: Re: [Neo4j] HTML5 graph viz library Yep. I slippy graph like google maps - with details an different zoom levels! Awesome! On 15 January 2011 15:58, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Mhh, interesting! I wonder if there is any support for using e.g. GeoTools to render arbitrary layouts apart from spatial. Would be worth to investigate. The nice thing is that these algos support, as you mention, zomming into a static structure, and espose more and more detail on every layer. Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - Your high performance graph database. http://www.thoughtmade.com - Scandinavia's coolest Bring-a-Thing party. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Jacob Hansson ja...@voltvoodoo.com wrote: Sorry Peter, misread you. What I was thinking was to render non-spatial graphs with neo4j spatial. A layout algorithm would calculate the coordinates of each node we want to visualize. That way we can view really big graphs in the browser, since the layout-work is already done by the server. Den 15 jan 2011 14.28 skrev Jacob Hansson ja...@voltvoodoo.com: Yeah, you couldn't do very much with the markers. But you could pre-render millions of nodes on the server, and serve it as a spatial layer as if it was a map. Geoserver would slice it up, allowing zooming and panning just like a map. Then you would add interactivity on top of the rendered image like google does with google maps. It would be difficult to allow moving nodes and so on, but clicking on them and adding relations etc would not be that difficult.. Especially cool if coupled with the styling available with the current geo stack. Imagine for instance visualizing the corporation ownership and board members dataset, enabling cheap and super-easy access to the entire visualized graph in any browser.. :) ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] HTML5 graph viz library
Craig: the example domain i mentioned is a dataset of all Corporations in Sweden, with ownerships and board members. I only ever used a subset, so i don't know the primitives count of it, perhaps few million in total, probably more a bit more. Rick: The open layers project uses tiled png images, with content pre-rendered on the server. Doing that makes it harder to check for mouse actions on nodes like you say, but there is virtually no limit to how much data we can show without regard for client hardware. I think they use svg for rendering dynamic items on top if the png layer(s). Den 15 jan 2011 17.44 skrev Rick Bullotta rick.bullo...@burningskysoftware.com: Out of curiosity, has anyone looked at re-doing the rendering engine of this in SVG? Now that SVG will be officially supported in IE9, its practicality for web apps is much more substantial. Issues like hit testing/item addressability/animation, conditional display based on zoom level, and other characteristics of smart graphs such as these are generally MUCH easier to do in SVG than by trying to write a ton of JavaScript code to render onto a canvas. -Original Message- From: user-boun...@lists.neo4j.org [mailto:user-boun...@lists.neo4j.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 11:04 AM To: Neo4j user discussions Subject: Re: [Neo4j] HTML5 graph viz library Yep. I slippy graph like google maps - with details an different zoom levels! Awesome! On 15 January 2011 15:58, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Mhh, interesting! I wonder if there is any support for using e.g. GeoTools to render arbitrary layouts apart from spatial. Would be worth to investigate. The nice thing is that these algos support, as you mention, zomming into a static structure, and espose more and more detail on every layer. Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - Your high performance graph database. http://www.thoughtmade.com - Scandinavia's coolest Bring-a-Thing party. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Jacob Hansson ja...@voltvoodoo.com wrote: Sorry Peter, misread you. What I was thinking was to render non-spatial graphs with neo4j spatial. A layout algorithm would calculate the coordinates of each node we want to visualize. That way we can view really big graphs in the browser, since the layout-work is already done by the server. Den 15 jan 2011 14.28 skrev Jacob Hansson ja...@voltvoodoo.com: Yeah, you couldn't do very much with the markers. But you could pre-render millions of nodes on the server, and serve it as a spatial layer as if it was a map. Geoserver would slice it up, allowing zooming and panning just like a map. Then you would add interactivity on top of the rendered image like google does with google maps. It would be difficult to allow moving nodes and so on, but clicking on them and adding relations etc would not be that difficult.. Especially cool if coupled with the styling available with the current geo stack. Imagine for instance visualizing the corporation ownership and board members dataset, enabling cheap and super-easy access to the entire visualized graph in any browser.. :) ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] HTML5 graph viz library
Yeah, I think a mix of the two approaches, as Rick says, handling the selection of detail to stream via some zooming logic interactivity via SVG/JavaScript on the client is a good approach. The other is the selection of only a subset via a traversal and not zoom level on the server. That would give a dynamic fine grained control of the current view, OTOH doesn't deal with really large graphs and aggregations on the server side. That should be Spatial zoomings sweet spot. Will be interesting to have that discussion next week Jake! Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - Your high performance graph database. http://www.thoughtmade.com - Scandinavia's coolest Bring-a-Thing party. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 7:14 PM, Jacob Hansson ja...@voltvoodoo.com wrote: Craig: the example domain i mentioned is a dataset of all Corporations in Sweden, with ownerships and board members. I only ever used a subset, so i don't know the primitives count of it, perhaps few million in total, probably more a bit more. Rick: The open layers project uses tiled png images, with content pre-rendered on the server. Doing that makes it harder to check for mouse actions on nodes like you say, but there is virtually no limit to how much data we can show without regard for client hardware. I think they use svg for rendering dynamic items on top if the png layer(s). Den 15 jan 2011 17.44 skrev Rick Bullotta rick.bullo...@burningskysoftware.com: Out of curiosity, has anyone looked at re-doing the rendering engine of this in SVG? Now that SVG will be officially supported in IE9, its practicality for web apps is much more substantial. Issues like hit testing/item addressability/animation, conditional display based on zoom level, and other characteristics of smart graphs such as these are generally MUCH easier to do in SVG than by trying to write a ton of JavaScript code to render onto a canvas. -Original Message- From: user-boun...@lists.neo4j.org [mailto:user-boun...@lists.neo4j.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 11:04 AM To: Neo4j user discussions Subject: Re: [Neo4j] HTML5 graph viz library Yep. I slippy graph like google maps - with details an different zoom levels! Awesome! On 15 January 2011 15:58, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Mhh, interesting! I wonder if there is any support for using e.g. GeoTools to render arbitrary layouts apart from spatial. Would be worth to investigate. The nice thing is that these algos support, as you mention, zomming into a static structure, and espose more and more detail on every layer. Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - Your high performance graph database. http://www.thoughtmade.com - Scandinavia's coolest Bring-a-Thing party. On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Jacob Hansson ja...@voltvoodoo.com wrote: Sorry Peter, misread you. What I was thinking was to render non-spatial graphs with neo4j spatial. A layout algorithm would calculate the coordinates of each node we want to visualize. That way we can view really big graphs in the browser, since the layout-work is already done by the server. Den 15 jan 2011 14.28 skrev Jacob Hansson ja...@voltvoodoo.com: Yeah, you couldn't do very much with the markers. But you could pre-render millions of nodes on the server, and serve it as a spatial layer as if it was a map. Geoserver would slice it up, allowing zooming and panning just like a map. Then you would add interactivity on top of the rendered image like google does with google maps. It would be difficult to allow moving nodes and so on, but clicking on them and adding relations etc would not be that difficult.. Especially cool if coupled with the styling available with the current geo stack. Imagine for instance visualizing the corporation ownership and board members dataset, enabling cheap and super-easy access to the entire visualized graph in any browser.. :) ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing
Re: [Neo4j] HTML5 graph viz library
On 15 January 2011 15:58, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Mhh, interesting! I wonder if there is any support for using e.g. GeoTools to render arbitrary layouts apart from spatial. Would be worth to investigate. The nice thing is that these algos support, as you mention, zomming into a static structure, and espose more and more detail on every layer. On 16 January 2011 05:44, Rick Bullotta rick.bullo...@burningskysoftware.com wrote: Out of curiosity, has anyone looked at re-doing the rendering engine of this in SVG? Rick, SVG is effectively still outsourcing the render to the client. Well, it's really a bit of a middle ground. The Cartesian positions of each of the nodes needs to be calculated by the server. However, I think that even only needing to parse and render the pre-calculated plots would still cripple most browsers at several million nodes. Tim McNamara @timClicks http://timmcnamara.co.nz ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] HTML5 graph viz library
On 16 January 2011 05:34, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.comwrote: In this case, the graph layout could be computed server side by something like graphviz or so, and then sliced into zoom level information. Then interactivity can be added via open layers . However, of course the question is how long it takes to calculate the layout for say 100.000 nodes. After that, the basic layout info is more or less static. Still, very interesting to think of this kind of mixed approach for big visualizations, switching to dynamic solutions under a certain threshold, like 500 nodes or so. WDYT? /peter Is there any need for database software to provide visualisations? There are graph visualisation packages that have Neo4j backends that provide this functionality amazingly well. If you have four minutes today, I strongly recommend watching a video on Gephi [1]. You'll be amazed by the beauty, speed and utility that can be achieved when built for purpose tools are used. Tim McNamara @timClicks http://timmcnamara.co.nz [1] http://vimeo.com/14899695 ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] HTML5 graph viz library
Using a pre-made layout solution would indeed be optimal, no reason to re-invent wheels. Apart from the layout, we'd get the rest for free from neo4j spatial and surrounding technologies. This would be a separate visualization tool, with an ability to let clients explore massive graphs via a browser that, afaik, is not currently available. There is a reason to let, for instance, neo4j webadmin ship with a visualization tool. Just as the table format is a natural way to show relational database data in relational database management tools, a visualized graph is a natural way to show neo4j data. The problem we've wrestled with is that the web based graph visualization solutions available have trouble rendering large graphs. I'm not sure this would be a good solution to that particular problem, but it is a stab at solving the problem of showing huge, dynamically rendered graphs on the web. Den 15 jan 2011 20.38 skrev Tim McNamara paperl...@timmcnamara.co.nz: On 16 January 2011 05:34, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.comwrote: In this case, the graph layout could be computed server side by something like graphviz or so, and then sliced into zoom level information. Then interactivity can be added via open layers . However, of course the question is how long it takes to calculate the layout for say 100.000 nodes. After that, the basic layout info is more or less static. Still, very interesting to think of this kind of mixed approach for big visualizations, switching to dynamic solutions under a certain threshold, like 500 nodes or so. WDYT? /peter Is there any need for database software to provide visualisations? There are graph visualisation packages that have Neo4j backends that provide this functionality amazingly well. If you have four minutes today, I strongly recommend watching a video on Gephi [1]. You'll be amazed by the beauty, speed and utility that can be achieved when built for purpose tools are used. Tim McNamara @timClicks http://timmcnamara.co.nz [1] http://vimeo.com/14899695 ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] HTML5 graph viz library
It was a couple of years ago when I used openlayers gwt and geoserver to render heat maps of the uk - even geoserver, and the postgis for the data store ran fine on a laptop. On 15 January 2011 20:29, Jacob Hansson ja...@voltvoodoo.com wrote: Using a pre-made layout solution would indeed be optimal, no reason to re-invent wheels. Apart from the layout, we'd get the rest for free from neo4j spatial and surrounding technologies. This would be a separate visualization tool, with an ability to let clients explore massive graphs via a browser that, afaik, is not currently available. There is a reason to let, for instance, neo4j webadmin ship with a visualization tool. Just as the table format is a natural way to show relational database data in relational database management tools, a visualized graph is a natural way to show neo4j data. The problem we've wrestled with is that the web based graph visualization solutions available have trouble rendering large graphs. I'm not sure this would be a good solution to that particular problem, but it is a stab at solving the problem of showing huge, dynamically rendered graphs on the web. Den 15 jan 2011 20.38 skrev Tim McNamara paperl...@timmcnamara.co.nz: On 16 January 2011 05:34, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.comwrote: In this case, the graph layout could be computed server side by something like graphviz or so, and then sliced into zoom level information. Then interactivity can be added via open layers . However, of course the question is how long it takes to calculate the layout for say 100.000 nodes. After that, the basic layout info is more or less static. Still, very interesting to think of this kind of mixed approach for big visualizations, switching to dynamic solutions under a certain threshold, like 500 nodes or so. WDYT? /peter Is there any need for database software to provide visualisations? There are graph visualisation packages that have Neo4j backends that provide this functionality amazingly well. If you have four minutes today, I strongly recommend watching a video on Gephi [1]. You'll be amazed by the beauty, speed and utility that can be achieved when built for purpose tools are used. Tim McNamara @timClicks http://timmcnamara.co.nz [1] http://vimeo.com/14899695 ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] HTML5 graph viz library
Tim, yes, Gephi is very powerful, Martin, Mathieu and the Gephi team are working on an integration right now (started as a Google summer of Code project), https://code.launchpad.net/~gephi.team/gephi/neo4j-plugin There are some remaining issues around how to lazily load the graph and remember layout settings when moving lazily around the graph, but I think Martin is on it as we speak. For this discussion, we are looking for a good way to do limited but sufficiently powerful web based vizualisation that can be used for mostly introspection and validation of small portion the graph (e.g. in the web admin), and still operate on production on production size datasets. Very interesting discussion everyone, keep it coming! There was some mentioning of Processing.js as maybe an alternative to SVG, too ... /peter On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 8:38 PM, Tim McNamara paperl...@timmcnamara.co.nz wrote: On 16 January 2011 05:34, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.comwrote: In this case, the graph layout could be computed server side by something like graphviz or so, and then sliced into zoom level information. Then interactivity can be added via open layers . However, of course the question is how long it takes to calculate the layout for say 100.000 nodes. After that, the basic layout info is more or less static. Still, very interesting to think of this kind of mixed approach for big visualizations, switching to dynamic solutions under a certain threshold, like 500 nodes or so. WDYT? /peter Is there any need for database software to provide visualisations? There are graph visualisation packages that have Neo4j backends that provide this functionality amazingly well. If you have four minutes today, I strongly recommend watching a video on Gephi [1]. You'll be amazed by the beauty, speed and utility that can be achieved when built for purpose tools are used. Tim McNamara @timClicks http://timmcnamara.co.nz [1] http://vimeo.com/14899695 ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] HTML5 graph viz library
On 16 January 2011 10:08, Peter Neubauer neubauer.pe...@gmail.com wrote: For this discussion, we are looking for a good way to do limited but sufficiently powerful web based vizualisation that can be used for mostly introspection and validation of small portion the graph (e.g. in the web admin), and still operate on production on production size datasets. arbor.js[1] is flavour of the month. It looks very good at handling small sections. To visualise a particular node in the web UI, you could have a max-depth recursive lookup occurring as nodes are inspected. Are you able to expand on what you mean by still operate on production on production size datasets? Does this mean that you want one tool that handles both scenarios? That is, being able manipulate and inspect individual nodes while being able to render the entire graph? I think a geoserver is probably the best option. Tim McNamara @timClicks http://timmcnamara.co.nz [1] http://arborjs.org/ ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
