Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Well, I think that Cypher is not yes taking into account Uniqueness, or is it Andres? Otherwise, most of the normal traversals are covered. To keep things consistent and give people a way of doing fine grained traversals, I would then suggest to document all the existing examples using Cypher or Groovy code, so we can document that things are working as expected and not loose functionality. Sounds like a really good idea. The JavaScript exposure then would totally go away from the REST API and possibly be factored out into a plugin like Groovy/Gremlin. Or dropped. I vote dropped :) WDYT? Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/- Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Jacob Hansson jacob.hans...@neotechnology.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Nope, I mean a server side script execution (which we already are doing in http://docs.neo4j.org/chunked/snapshot/rest-api-traverse.html) to execute traversal API code on the server. Neo4js is a client driver. Remember that adding yet another way to talk to the server comes at a cost of confusion and spreading engineering focus thin. I don't think we should do this unless there is a good answer to the question: *Is there anything* *that this solves that is not solved by Cypher or Gremlin, and if so, why don't we expand Cypher or Gremlin to incorporate that use case instead? *Collecting our efforts in fewer buckets means that improvements will benefit everyone, not just the group that uses the Groovy endpoint, or the Traversal API, or the JS endpoint and so on. Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/- Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Andres Taylor andres.tay...@neotechnology.com wrote: You, something like Neo4js https://github.com/neo4j/neo4js? We've had that since forever. Or do you mean something different? Andrés On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Also, there is another possibility: We are exposing a ECMA script execution engine via the Traverse enpoints. Instead of trying to shoehorn the traversal API into REST calls and then anyway executing script snippets, Why not exposing a JavaScript plugin along exactly the same lines as the Groovy plugin, and provide examples on how to use the same usecases via that plugin, so we cover the traversal API that way? Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/- Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Jacob Hansson jacob.hans...@neotechnology.com wrote: It would be interesting to rephrase the question like this: Are there any use cases that the REST traversal API covers, that we currently cannot replicate in Cypher or Gremlin? On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Well, Andres has been putting the first algo into cypher and we are thinking of exposing them there so thru can be used as path functions in an expression. However, that will be step 2. WDYT? On Oct 29, 2011 6:47 PM, maxdemarzi maxdema...@gmail.com wrote: I think the traversal rest api is fine for my purposes, but if cypher is where we want to go long term, then we need to deprecate it in 1.6 and drop it in 1.7. This gives us some time to update our libraries and for cypher to settle down. Are you guys thinking of getting rid of the rest built in graph algorithms or are those there to stay? -- View this message in context: http://neo4j-community-discussions.438527.n3.nabble.com/Neo4j-REST-traverse-deprecation-tp3460396p3464979.html Sent from the Neo4j Community Discussions mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Neo4j mailing list
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
I vote not dropped, as there are lots of non-java developers out there which would want to use REST server dynamically. That was the reason why we wrote the ruby-script-extension support. Michael Am 02.11.2011 um 10:08 schrieb Jacob Hansson: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Well, I think that Cypher is not yes taking into account Uniqueness, or is it Andres? Otherwise, most of the normal traversals are covered. To keep things consistent and give people a way of doing fine grained traversals, I would then suggest to document all the existing examples using Cypher or Groovy code, so we can document that things are working as expected and not loose functionality. Sounds like a really good idea. The JavaScript exposure then would totally go away from the REST API and possibly be factored out into a plugin like Groovy/Gremlin. Or dropped. I vote dropped :) WDYT? Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/- Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Jacob Hansson jacob.hans...@neotechnology.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Nope, I mean a server side script execution (which we already are doing in http://docs.neo4j.org/chunked/snapshot/rest-api-traverse.html) to execute traversal API code on the server. Neo4js is a client driver. Remember that adding yet another way to talk to the server comes at a cost of confusion and spreading engineering focus thin. I don't think we should do this unless there is a good answer to the question: *Is there anything* *that this solves that is not solved by Cypher or Gremlin, and if so, why don't we expand Cypher or Gremlin to incorporate that use case instead? *Collecting our efforts in fewer buckets means that improvements will benefit everyone, not just the group that uses the Groovy endpoint, or the Traversal API, or the JS endpoint and so on. Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/- Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Andres Taylor andres.tay...@neotechnology.com wrote: You, something like Neo4js https://github.com/neo4j/neo4js? We've had that since forever. Or do you mean something different? Andrés On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Also, there is another possibility: We are exposing a ECMA script execution engine via the Traverse enpoints. Instead of trying to shoehorn the traversal API into REST calls and then anyway executing script snippets, Why not exposing a JavaScript plugin along exactly the same lines as the Groovy plugin, and provide examples on how to use the same usecases via that plugin, so we cover the traversal API that way? Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/- Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Jacob Hansson jacob.hans...@neotechnology.com wrote: It would be interesting to rephrase the question like this: Are there any use cases that the REST traversal API covers, that we currently cannot replicate in Cypher or Gremlin? On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Well, Andres has been putting the first algo into cypher and we are thinking of exposing them there so thru can be used as path functions in an expression. However, that will be step 2. WDYT? On Oct 29, 2011 6:47 PM, maxdemarzi maxdema...@gmail.com wrote: I think the traversal rest api is fine for my purposes, but if cypher is where we want to go long term, then we need to deprecate it in 1.6 and drop it in 1.7. This gives us some time to update our libraries and for cypher to settle down. Are you guys thinking of getting rid of the rest built in graph algorithms or are those there to stay? -- View this message in context: http://neo4j-community-discussions.438527.n3.nabble.com/Neo4j-REST-traverse-deprecation-tp3460396p3464979.html Sent from the Neo4j Community Discussions mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Michael Hunger michael.hun...@neotechnology.com wrote: I vote not dropped, as there are lots of non-java developers out there which would want to use REST server dynamically. I am completely open to the notion that I am wrong here. But I want us to have answered the questions I was asking before properly, if we are going to embrace all these ways to talk to the server. What use cases does dynamic script execution cover that cypher or gremlin do not? Why should those use cases not be covered by cypher or gremlin? That was the reason why we wrote the ruby-script-extension support. Michael Am 02.11.2011 um 10:08 schrieb Jacob Hansson: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Well, I think that Cypher is not yes taking into account Uniqueness, or is it Andres? Otherwise, most of the normal traversals are covered. To keep things consistent and give people a way of doing fine grained traversals, I would then suggest to document all the existing examples using Cypher or Groovy code, so we can document that things are working as expected and not loose functionality. Sounds like a really good idea. The JavaScript exposure then would totally go away from the REST API and possibly be factored out into a plugin like Groovy/Gremlin. Or dropped. I vote dropped :) WDYT? Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/- Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Jacob Hansson jacob.hans...@neotechnology.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Nope, I mean a server side script execution (which we already are doing in http://docs.neo4j.org/chunked/snapshot/rest-api-traverse.html) to execute traversal API code on the server. Neo4js is a client driver. Remember that adding yet another way to talk to the server comes at a cost of confusion and spreading engineering focus thin. I don't think we should do this unless there is a good answer to the question: *Is there anything* *that this solves that is not solved by Cypher or Gremlin, and if so, why don't we expand Cypher or Gremlin to incorporate that use case instead? *Collecting our efforts in fewer buckets means that improvements will benefit everyone, not just the group that uses the Groovy endpoint, or the Traversal API, or the JS endpoint and so on. Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/- Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Andres Taylor andres.tay...@neotechnology.com wrote: You, something like Neo4js https://github.com/neo4j/neo4js? We've had that since forever. Or do you mean something different? Andrés On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Also, there is another possibility: We are exposing a ECMA script execution engine via the Traverse enpoints. Instead of trying to shoehorn the traversal API into REST calls and then anyway executing script snippets, Why not exposing a JavaScript plugin along exactly the same lines as the Groovy plugin, and provide examples on how to use the same usecases via that plugin, so we cover the traversal API that way? Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/- Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Jacob Hansson jacob.hans...@neotechnology.com wrote: It would be interesting to rephrase the question like this: Are there any use cases that the REST traversal API covers, that we currently cannot replicate in Cypher or Gremlin? On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Well, Andres has been putting the first algo into cypher and we are thinking of exposing them there so thru can be used as path functions in an expression. However, that will be step 2. WDYT? On Oct 29, 2011 6:47 PM, maxdemarzi maxdema...@gmail.com wrote: I think the traversal rest api is fine for my purposes, but if cypher is
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
custom use-cases like the ones implemented by our customers with plugins / extensions and in the case of the ruby script extensions a way I'd like to promote to talk to the server that is 1) create you own RESTful endpoints that are focused on a protocol speaking your domain and not nodes + rels 2) the protocol is use-case oriented 3) it only transmits the information necessary (not more). 4) The code of these endpoints would be transactionally executed Use-Cases with customers so far have been: * unique nodes with locking + index lookup * batch data insertion (also unique stuff see above) * custom traversals with complicated callbacks * aggregating multiple gremlin / cypher queries in the server and returning only a partial result-set/projection of those executions * With the ruby script extension what we've done there is to leverage the web/REST frameworks of the platform and allow rack-apps to expose their REST endpoints within the neo4j-server. Thomas and I also talked about a more generic way to allow any language supported by the javax.script extension to register endpoints with the neo4j-server. A generic javax.scripting languages plugin would accommodate for more ad-hoc execution mode for which writing an extension is too much ceremony. Michael Am 02.11.2011 um 10:54 schrieb Jacob Hansson: On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Michael Hunger michael.hun...@neotechnology.com wrote: I vote not dropped, as there are lots of non-java developers out there which would want to use REST server dynamically. I am completely open to the notion that I am wrong here. But I want us to have answered the questions I was asking before properly, if we are going to embrace all these ways to talk to the server. What use cases does dynamic script execution cover that cypher or gremlin do not? Why should those use cases not be covered by cypher or gremlin? That was the reason why we wrote the ruby-script-extension support. Michael Am 02.11.2011 um 10:08 schrieb Jacob Hansson: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Well, I think that Cypher is not yes taking into account Uniqueness, or is it Andres? Otherwise, most of the normal traversals are covered. To keep things consistent and give people a way of doing fine grained traversals, I would then suggest to document all the existing examples using Cypher or Groovy code, so we can document that things are working as expected and not loose functionality. Sounds like a really good idea. The JavaScript exposure then would totally go away from the REST API and possibly be factored out into a plugin like Groovy/Gremlin. Or dropped. I vote dropped :) WDYT? Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/- Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Jacob Hansson jacob.hans...@neotechnology.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Nope, I mean a server side script execution (which we already are doing in http://docs.neo4j.org/chunked/snapshot/rest-api-traverse.html) to execute traversal API code on the server. Neo4js is a client driver. Remember that adding yet another way to talk to the server comes at a cost of confusion and spreading engineering focus thin. I don't think we should do this unless there is a good answer to the question: *Is there anything* *that this solves that is not solved by Cypher or Gremlin, and if so, why don't we expand Cypher or Gremlin to incorporate that use case instead? *Collecting our efforts in fewer buckets means that improvements will benefit everyone, not just the group that uses the Groovy endpoint, or the Traversal API, or the JS endpoint and so on. Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/- Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Andres Taylor andres.tay...@neotechnology.com wrote: You, something like Neo4js https://github.com/neo4j/neo4js? We've had that since forever. Or do you mean something different? Andrés On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Also, there is another possibility: We are exposing a ECMA script execution engine via the Traverse enpoints. Instead of trying to shoehorn the traversal API into REST calls and then anyway executing script
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Michael Hunger michael.hun...@neotechnology.com wrote: custom use-cases like the ones implemented by our customers with plugins / extensions and in the case of the ruby script extensions a way I'd like to promote to talk to the server that is 1) create you own RESTful endpoints that are focused on a protocol speaking your domain and not nodes + rels Isn't running domain logic inside a database server a well known anti-pattern? My experience with companies building lots of stuff with stored procedures is that it is *really* hard to maintain, hard to scale, hard to test, hard to tweak and impossible to get an overview of. See for instance how much pain Etsy.com had getting off this type of architecture: http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/10/when-clever-goes-wrong-how-etsy-overcame-poor-architectural-choices.ars 2) the protocol is use-case oriented This also implies running domain logic in the database server. 3) it only transmits the information necessary (not more). This is a really good point. Wouldn't it be better though, if we pulled some use cases like this out and said we need Cypher to be able to do this, and thus make Cypher better, rather than saying screw it, lets just let clients use the database as an application server. What are some use cases where this occurs? Lets look at them, and see if it would be possible to make cypher or gremlin do it. 4) The code of these endpoints would be transactionally executed This is a bug, in my mind, of the REST API. Solving it in roundabout ways like this and the batch-operations-API is not actually solving the problem. Use-Cases with customers so far have been: * unique nodes with locking + index lookup This is an *excellent* use case. Compared to the scripting solution, wouldn't it be better if we supported upserts directly in the REST API, as a core feature? * batch data insertion (also unique stuff see above) This is mainly because the REST API is slow, no? If so, spending time working around the problem with arbitrary script execution is beating around the bush. We should fix the real problem here, not hack around it. * custom traversals with complicated callbacks This is really what my original question to Peter was about - what are some traversals like this, that we currently cannot do with Cypher or Gremlin? Can we extend Cypher to accomodate those use cases? * aggregating multiple gremlin / cypher queries in the server and returning only a partial result-set/projection of those executions This also seems like a limitation of Cypher. Can you give an example of when this would be necessary, and we can talk about how that could be integrated into Cypher, if possible? * With the ruby script extension what we've done there is to leverage the web/REST frameworks of the platform and allow rack-apps to expose their REST endpoints within the neo4j-server. Thomas and I also talked about a more generic way to allow any language supported by the javax.script extension to register endpoints with the neo4j-server. A generic javax.scripting languages plugin would accommodate for more ad-hoc execution mode for which writing an extension is too much ceremony. Michael Am 02.11.2011 um 10:54 schrieb Jacob Hansson: On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Michael Hunger michael.hun...@neotechnology.com wrote: I vote not dropped, as there are lots of non-java developers out there which would want to use REST server dynamically. I am completely open to the notion that I am wrong here. But I want us to have answered the questions I was asking before properly, if we are going to embrace all these ways to talk to the server. What use cases does dynamic script execution cover that cypher or gremlin do not? Why should those use cases not be covered by cypher or gremlin? That was the reason why we wrote the ruby-script-extension support. Michael Am 02.11.2011 um 10:08 schrieb Jacob Hansson: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Well, I think that Cypher is not yes taking into account Uniqueness, or is it Andres? Otherwise, most of the normal traversals are covered. To keep things consistent and give people a way of doing fine grained traversals, I would then suggest to document all the existing examples using Cypher or Groovy code, so we can document that things are working as expected and not loose functionality. Sounds like a really good idea. The JavaScript exposure then would totally go away from the REST API and possibly be factored out into a plugin like Groovy/Gremlin. Or dropped. I vote dropped :) WDYT? Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Jacob Hansson jacob.hans...@neotechnology.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Michael Hunger michael.hun...@neotechnology.com wrote: * custom traversals with complicated callbacks This is really what my original question to Peter was about - what are some traversals like this, that we currently cannot do with Cypher or Gremlin? Can we extend Cypher to accomodate those use cases? Well, Gremlin is just Groovy+Pipes, so there's nothing you can't do in Gremlin. If we're talking about Cypher, I have one for you: PageRank. PageRank iterates over the data set a specified number of times, marking and updating stuff on the fly, until it's happy and returns a result. It's not hard at all to write using Gremlin, but impossible with Cypher. I can't see a way to make that nice and easy with Cypher. Andrés ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Andres Taylor andres.tay...@neotechnology.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Jacob Hansson jacob.hans...@neotechnology.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Michael Hunger michael.hun...@neotechnology.com wrote: * custom traversals with complicated callbacks This is really what my original question to Peter was about - what are some traversals like this, that we currently cannot do with Cypher or Gremlin? Can we extend Cypher to accomodate those use cases? Well, Gremlin is just Groovy+Pipes, so there's nothing you can't do in Gremlin. If we're talking about Cypher, I have one for you: PageRank. PageRank iterates over the data set a specified number of times, marking and updating stuff on the fly, until it's happy and returns a result. It's not hard at all to write using Gremlin, but impossible with Cypher. I can't see a way to make that nice and easy with Cypher. START a=node(1) MATCH p = a-[1..100]-other RETURN pageRank(a via p using weights blah saving state in property x) :) But seriously, aren't you alluding to a key distinction here - Graph Querying vs. Graph Processing? For processing, cypher is not your friend. But neither is writing jobs from scratch in your language of choice - at least not compared to writing a gremlin script. In this space (processing-style traversals), are there any use cases that are better served by arbitrary script execution than gremlin queries? And is catering to those use cases, if they exist, worth the cost in confusion, diffusion of effort and security problems? Andrés ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user -- Jacob Hansson Phone: +46 (0) 763503395 Twitter: @jakewins ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
Mmh, this thread is just about deprecating the travers() section of the REST API, not take away general scripting form the server. I have not seen one single case where people have exploited the JavaScript exposure in the return/stop evaluators to do anything like you say Michael. Extensions and plugins are not going away for the time being, I am only concerned about http://docs.neo4j.org/chunked/snapshot/rest-api-traverse.html not adding value to the API, and being able to be scripted in a more concise way via the existing extensions (which I want to make examples of). I haven't heard any argument for this case, so the question is whether to document the usecases in other ways (Groovy, JavaScript or Cypher plugins) and deprecate this section, since it doesn't add functionality, just exposes scripting in a hacked-up way. Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/ - Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 3:11 AM, Michael Hunger michael.hun...@neotechnology.com wrote: custom use-cases like the ones implemented by our customers with plugins / extensions and in the case of the ruby script extensions a way I'd like to promote to talk to the server that is 1) create you own RESTful endpoints that are focused on a protocol speaking your domain and not nodes + rels 2) the protocol is use-case oriented 3) it only transmits the information necessary (not more). 4) The code of these endpoints would be transactionally executed Use-Cases with customers so far have been: * unique nodes with locking + index lookup * batch data insertion (also unique stuff see above) * custom traversals with complicated callbacks * aggregating multiple gremlin / cypher queries in the server and returning only a partial result-set/projection of those executions * With the ruby script extension what we've done there is to leverage the web/REST frameworks of the platform and allow rack-apps to expose their REST endpoints within the neo4j-server. Thomas and I also talked about a more generic way to allow any language supported by the javax.script extension to register endpoints with the neo4j-server. A generic javax.scripting languages plugin would accommodate for more ad-hoc execution mode for which writing an extension is too much ceremony. Michael Am 02.11.2011 um 10:54 schrieb Jacob Hansson: On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Michael Hunger michael.hun...@neotechnology.com wrote: I vote not dropped, as there are lots of non-java developers out there which would want to use REST server dynamically. I am completely open to the notion that I am wrong here. But I want us to have answered the questions I was asking before properly, if we are going to embrace all these ways to talk to the server. What use cases does dynamic script execution cover that cypher or gremlin do not? Why should those use cases not be covered by cypher or gremlin? That was the reason why we wrote the ruby-script-extension support. Michael Am 02.11.2011 um 10:08 schrieb Jacob Hansson: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Well, I think that Cypher is not yes taking into account Uniqueness, or is it Andres? Otherwise, most of the normal traversals are covered. To keep things consistent and give people a way of doing fine grained traversals, I would then suggest to document all the existing examples using Cypher or Groovy code, so we can document that things are working as expected and not loose functionality. Sounds like a really good idea. The JavaScript exposure then would totally go away from the REST API and possibly be factored out into a plugin like Groovy/Gremlin. Or dropped. I vote dropped :) WDYT? Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/ - Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Jacob Hansson jacob.hans...@neotechnology.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Nope, I mean a server side script execution (which we already are doing in http://docs.neo4j.org/chunked/snapshot/rest-api-traverse.html) to execute traversal API code on the server. Neo4js is a client driver. Remember that adding yet another way to talk to the server comes at a cost of confusion and spreading engineering focus thin. I don't think we should do this unless there is a good answer to the question: *Is there
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Mmh, this thread is just about deprecating the travers() section of the REST API, not take away general scripting form the server. I have not seen one single case where people have exploited the JavaScript exposure in the return/stop evaluators to do anything like you say Michael. Extensions and plugins are not going away for the time being, I am only concerned about http://docs.neo4j.org/chunked/snapshot/rest-api-traverse.html not adding value to the API, and being able to be scripted in a more concise way via the existing extensions (which I want to make examples of). I haven't heard any argument for this case, so the question is whether to document the usecases in other ways (Groovy, JavaScript or Cypher plugins) and deprecate this section, since it doesn't add functionality, just exposes scripting in a hacked-up way. Good that you point this out, this thread is a bit confusing since we're talking about a lot of different things. If we can't find use cases that warrants the REST traversal API, we should deprecate it. It would be great to get the input of some of the people working on clients for the REST server before a decision is made though. I would also *really* like to continue the discussion about arbitrary script execution, because I want to understand the arguments for it. Perhaps we should break that discussion into a separate thread, to keep things concise. Imma start a new thread :) Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/- Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 3:11 AM, Michael Hunger michael.hun...@neotechnology.com wrote: custom use-cases like the ones implemented by our customers with plugins / extensions and in the case of the ruby script extensions a way I'd like to promote to talk to the server that is 1) create you own RESTful endpoints that are focused on a protocol speaking your domain and not nodes + rels 2) the protocol is use-case oriented 3) it only transmits the information necessary (not more). 4) The code of these endpoints would be transactionally executed Use-Cases with customers so far have been: * unique nodes with locking + index lookup * batch data insertion (also unique stuff see above) * custom traversals with complicated callbacks * aggregating multiple gremlin / cypher queries in the server and returning only a partial result-set/projection of those executions * With the ruby script extension what we've done there is to leverage the web/REST frameworks of the platform and allow rack-apps to expose their REST endpoints within the neo4j-server. Thomas and I also talked about a more generic way to allow any language supported by the javax.script extension to register endpoints with the neo4j-server. A generic javax.scripting languages plugin would accommodate for more ad-hoc execution mode for which writing an extension is too much ceremony. Michael Am 02.11.2011 um 10:54 schrieb Jacob Hansson: On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Michael Hunger michael.hun...@neotechnology.com wrote: I vote not dropped, as there are lots of non-java developers out there which would want to use REST server dynamically. I am completely open to the notion that I am wrong here. But I want us to have answered the questions I was asking before properly, if we are going to embrace all these ways to talk to the server. What use cases does dynamic script execution cover that cypher or gremlin do not? Why should those use cases not be covered by cypher or gremlin? That was the reason why we wrote the ruby-script-extension support. Michael Am 02.11.2011 um 10:08 schrieb Jacob Hansson: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Well, I think that Cypher is not yes taking into account Uniqueness, or is it Andres? Otherwise, most of the normal traversals are covered. To keep things consistent and give people a way of doing fine grained traversals, I would then suggest to document all the existing examples using Cypher or Groovy code, so we can document that things are working as expected and not loose functionality. Sounds like a really good idea. The JavaScript exposure then would totally go away from the REST API and possibly be factored out into a plugin like Groovy/Gremlin. Or dropped. I vote dropped :) WDYT? Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
Yes. This thread is about ONLY the traverse-Endpoint not scripting in general. Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/ - Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Jacob Hansson jacob.hans...@neotechnology.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Mmh, this thread is just about deprecating the travers() section of the REST API, not take away general scripting form the server. I have not seen one single case where people have exploited the JavaScript exposure in the return/stop evaluators to do anything like you say Michael. Extensions and plugins are not going away for the time being, I am only concerned about http://docs.neo4j.org/chunked/snapshot/rest-api-traverse.html not adding value to the API, and being able to be scripted in a more concise way via the existing extensions (which I want to make examples of). I haven't heard any argument for this case, so the question is whether to document the usecases in other ways (Groovy, JavaScript or Cypher plugins) and deprecate this section, since it doesn't add functionality, just exposes scripting in a hacked-up way. Good that you point this out, this thread is a bit confusing since we're talking about a lot of different things. If we can't find use cases that warrants the REST traversal API, we should deprecate it. It would be great to get the input of some of the people working on clients for the REST server before a decision is made though. I would also *really* like to continue the discussion about arbitrary script execution, because I want to understand the arguments for it. Perhaps we should break that discussion into a separate thread, to keep things concise. Imma start a new thread :) Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/ - Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 3:11 AM, Michael Hunger michael.hun...@neotechnology.com wrote: custom use-cases like the ones implemented by our customers with plugins / extensions and in the case of the ruby script extensions a way I'd like to promote to talk to the server that is 1) create you own RESTful endpoints that are focused on a protocol speaking your domain and not nodes + rels 2) the protocol is use-case oriented 3) it only transmits the information necessary (not more). 4) The code of these endpoints would be transactionally executed Use-Cases with customers so far have been: * unique nodes with locking + index lookup * batch data insertion (also unique stuff see above) * custom traversals with complicated callbacks * aggregating multiple gremlin / cypher queries in the server and returning only a partial result-set/projection of those executions * With the ruby script extension what we've done there is to leverage the web/REST frameworks of the platform and allow rack-apps to expose their REST endpoints within the neo4j-server. Thomas and I also talked about a more generic way to allow any language supported by the javax.script extension to register endpoints with the neo4j-server. A generic javax.scripting languages plugin would accommodate for more ad-hoc execution mode for which writing an extension is too much ceremony. Michael Am 02.11.2011 um 10:54 schrieb Jacob Hansson: On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Michael Hunger michael.hun...@neotechnology.com wrote: I vote not dropped, as there are lots of non-java developers out there which would want to use REST server dynamically. I am completely open to the notion that I am wrong here. But I want us to have answered the questions I was asking before properly, if we are going to embrace all these ways to talk to the server. What use cases does dynamic script execution cover that cypher or gremlin do not? Why should those use cases not be covered by cypher or gremlin? That was the reason why we wrote the ruby-script-extension support. Michael Am 02.11.2011 um 10:08 schrieb Jacob Hansson: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Well, I think that Cypher is not yes taking into account Uniqueness, or is it Andres? Otherwise, most of the normal traversals are covered. To keep things consistent and give people a way of doing fine grained traversals, I would then suggest to document all the existing examples using Cypher
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
Hi, We use the REST traversal API extensively. One of our core use cases is to find all paths between two nodes. We are a .Net shop so we rely on the REST API, and are currently using a .Net neo4j library from about 18 months ago that we have customized to our needs. I have seen other recent threads about updated .Net libraries so that is on our roadmap. We are currently on v1.4.1 so if the REST traversal API is deprecated in a future version, that will drive a fairly significant change on our system to replace the .Net library and refactor the traversal functionality accordingly. I generally think this is a good thing since we need to move in that directly anyways, but I wanted to at least get it out that we use the REST traversal API. Thanks, Kevin On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Jacob Hansson jacob.hans...@neotechnology.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Mmh, this thread is just about deprecating the travers() section of the REST API, not take away general scripting form the server. I have not seen one single case where people have exploited the JavaScript exposure in the return/stop evaluators to do anything like you say Michael. Extensions and plugins are not going away for the time being, I am only concerned about http://docs.neo4j.org/chunked/snapshot/rest-api-traverse.html not adding value to the API, and being able to be scripted in a more concise way via the existing extensions (which I want to make examples of). I haven't heard any argument for this case, so the question is whether to document the usecases in other ways (Groovy, JavaScript or Cypher plugins) and deprecate this section, since it doesn't add functionality, just exposes scripting in a hacked-up way. Good that you point this out, this thread is a bit confusing since we're talking about a lot of different things. If we can't find use cases that warrants the REST traversal API, we should deprecate it. It would be great to get the input of some of the people working on clients for the REST server before a decision is made though. I would also *really* like to continue the discussion about arbitrary script execution, because I want to understand the arguments for it. Perhaps we should break that discussion into a separate thread, to keep things concise. Imma start a new thread :) Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/- Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 3:11 AM, Michael Hunger michael.hun...@neotechnology.com wrote: custom use-cases like the ones implemented by our customers with plugins / extensions and in the case of the ruby script extensions a way I'd like to promote to talk to the server that is 1) create you own RESTful endpoints that are focused on a protocol speaking your domain and not nodes + rels 2) the protocol is use-case oriented 3) it only transmits the information necessary (not more). 4) The code of these endpoints would be transactionally executed Use-Cases with customers so far have been: * unique nodes with locking + index lookup * batch data insertion (also unique stuff see above) * custom traversals with complicated callbacks * aggregating multiple gremlin / cypher queries in the server and returning only a partial result-set/projection of those executions * With the ruby script extension what we've done there is to leverage the web/REST frameworks of the platform and allow rack-apps to expose their REST endpoints within the neo4j-server. Thomas and I also talked about a more generic way to allow any language supported by the javax.script extension to register endpoints with the neo4j-server. A generic javax.scripting languages plugin would accommodate for more ad-hoc execution mode for which writing an extension is too much ceremony. Michael Am 02.11.2011 um 10:54 schrieb Jacob Hansson: On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Michael Hunger michael.hun...@neotechnology.com wrote: I vote not dropped, as there are lots of non-java developers out there which would want to use REST server dynamically. I am completely open to the notion that I am wrong here. But I want us to have answered the questions I was asking before properly, if we are going to embrace all these ways to talk to the server. What use cases does dynamic script execution cover that cypher or gremlin do not? Why should those use cases not be covered by cypher or gremlin? That was the reason why we wrote the ruby-script-extension support.
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
As I said it is still used in the rest-graphdb-client which comes as a
drop-in-replacement for the core-api.
This functionality would go missing then.
Same goes for lot of stuff that for instance neography does with the REST
server to offer a quite fluent way of traversing the graph.
See here: https://github.com/maxdemarzi/neography - Readme
n1.outgoing(:friends).incoming(:enemies) # Get nodes related
by one of multiple relationships
n1.outgoing(:friends).depth(2) # Get
nodes related by friends and friends of friends
n1.outgoing(:friends).depth(:all)# Get
nodes related by friends until the end of the graph
n1.outgoing(:friends).depth(2).include_start_node # Get n1 and nodes related
by friends and friends of friends
n1.outgoing(:friends).prune(position.endNode().getProperty('name') == 'Tom';)
n1.outgoing(:friends).filter(position.length() == 2;)
We use this functionality also in our hosting provider to navigate the graph of
servers, providers, users, databases and servers.
If it goes away we have to rewrite parts of the hosting provider in something
else.
Cheers
Michael
Am 02.11.2011 um 16:41 schrieb Peter Neubauer:
Yes.
This thread is about ONLY the traverse-Endpoint not scripting in general.
Cheers,
/peter neubauer
GTalk: neubauer.peter
Skype peter.neubauer
Phone +46 704 106975
LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer
Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer
http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise.
http://startupbootcamp.org/- Öresund - Innovation happens HERE.
On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Jacob Hansson
jacob.hans...@neotechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Peter Neubauer
peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote:
Mmh,
this thread is just about deprecating the travers() section of the
REST API, not take away general scripting form the server. I have not
seen one single case where people have exploited the JavaScript
exposure in the return/stop evaluators to do anything like you say
Michael.
Extensions and plugins are not going away for the time being, I am
only concerned about
http://docs.neo4j.org/chunked/snapshot/rest-api-traverse.html not
adding value to the API, and being able to be scripted in a more
concise way via the existing extensions (which I want to make examples
of).
I haven't heard any argument for this case, so the question is whether
to document the usecases in other ways (Groovy, JavaScript or Cypher
plugins) and deprecate this section, since it doesn't add
functionality, just exposes scripting in a hacked-up way.
Good that you point this out, this thread is a bit confusing since we're
talking about a lot of different things. If we can't find use cases that
warrants the REST traversal API, we should deprecate it. It would be great
to get the input of some of the people working on clients for the REST
server before a decision is made though.
I would also *really* like to continue the discussion about arbitrary
script execution, because I want to understand the arguments for it.
Perhaps we should break that discussion into a separate thread, to keep
things concise.
Imma start a new thread :)
Cheers,
/peter neubauer
GTalk: neubauer.peter
Skype peter.neubauer
Phone +46 704 106975
LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer
Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer
http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise.
http://startupbootcamp.org/- Öresund - Innovation happens HERE.
On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 3:11 AM, Michael Hunger
michael.hun...@neotechnology.com wrote:
custom use-cases like the ones implemented by our customers with plugins
/ extensions
and in the case of the ruby script extensions a way I'd like to promote
to talk to the server that is
1) create you own RESTful endpoints that are focused on a protocol
speaking your domain and not nodes + rels
2) the protocol is use-case oriented
3) it only transmits the information necessary (not more).
4) The code of these endpoints would be transactionally executed
Use-Cases with customers so far have been:
* unique nodes with locking + index lookup
* batch data insertion (also unique stuff see above)
* custom traversals with complicated callbacks
* aggregating multiple gremlin / cypher queries in the server and
returning only a partial result-set/projection of those executions
*
With the ruby script extension what we've done there is to leverage the
web/REST frameworks of the platform and allow rack-apps to expose their
REST endpoints within the neo4j-server.
Thomas and I also talked about a more generic way to allow any language
supported by the javax.script extension to register endpoints with the
neo4j-server.
A generic javax.scripting languages plugin would accommodate for more
ad-hoc
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
Ok,
then let's shelf this until further notice, and revise it when we have
done some more extensive work on the server and fast protocol stack.
Thanks for all input, good that you speak up!
Cheers,
/peter neubauer
GTalk: neubauer.peter
Skype peter.neubauer
Phone +46 704 106975
LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer
Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer
http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise.
http://startupbootcamp.org/ - Öresund - Innovation happens HERE.
On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Michael Hunger
michael.hun...@neotechnology.com wrote:
As I said it is still used in the rest-graphdb-client which comes as a
drop-in-replacement for the core-api.
This functionality would go missing then.
Same goes for lot of stuff that for instance neography does with the REST
server to offer a quite fluent way of traversing the graph.
See here: https://github.com/maxdemarzi/neography - Readme
n1.outgoing(:friends).incoming(:enemies) # Get nodes related
by one of multiple relationships
n1.outgoing(:friends).depth(2) # Get
nodes related by friends and friends of friends
n1.outgoing(:friends).depth(:all) # Get
nodes related by friends until the end of the graph
n1.outgoing(:friends).depth(2).include_start_node # Get n1 and nodes
related by friends and friends of friends
n1.outgoing(:friends).prune(position.endNode().getProperty('name') ==
'Tom';)
n1.outgoing(:friends).filter(position.length() == 2;)
We use this functionality also in our hosting provider to navigate the graph
of servers, providers, users, databases and servers.
If it goes away we have to rewrite parts of the hosting provider in something
else.
Cheers
Michael
Am 02.11.2011 um 16:41 schrieb Peter Neubauer:
Yes.
This thread is about ONLY the traverse-Endpoint not scripting in general.
Cheers,
/peter neubauer
GTalk: neubauer.peter
Skype peter.neubauer
Phone +46 704 106975
LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer
Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer
http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise.
http://startupbootcamp.org/ - Öresund - Innovation happens HERE.
On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Jacob Hansson
jacob.hans...@neotechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Peter Neubauer
peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote:
Mmh,
this thread is just about deprecating the travers() section of the
REST API, not take away general scripting form the server. I have not
seen one single case where people have exploited the JavaScript
exposure in the return/stop evaluators to do anything like you say
Michael.
Extensions and plugins are not going away for the time being, I am
only concerned about
http://docs.neo4j.org/chunked/snapshot/rest-api-traverse.html not
adding value to the API, and being able to be scripted in a more
concise way via the existing extensions (which I want to make examples
of).
I haven't heard any argument for this case, so the question is whether
to document the usecases in other ways (Groovy, JavaScript or Cypher
plugins) and deprecate this section, since it doesn't add
functionality, just exposes scripting in a hacked-up way.
Good that you point this out, this thread is a bit confusing since we're
talking about a lot of different things. If we can't find use cases that
warrants the REST traversal API, we should deprecate it. It would be great
to get the input of some of the people working on clients for the REST
server before a decision is made though.
I would also *really* like to continue the discussion about arbitrary
script execution, because I want to understand the arguments for it.
Perhaps we should break that discussion into a separate thread, to keep
things concise.
Imma start a new thread :)
Cheers,
/peter neubauer
GTalk: neubauer.peter
Skype peter.neubauer
Phone +46 704 106975
LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer
Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer
http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise.
http://startupbootcamp.org/ - Öresund - Innovation happens HERE.
On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 3:11 AM, Michael Hunger
michael.hun...@neotechnology.com wrote:
custom use-cases like the ones implemented by our customers with plugins
/ extensions
and in the case of the ruby script extensions a way I'd like to promote
to talk to the server that is
1) create you own RESTful endpoints that are focused on a protocol
speaking your domain and not nodes + rels
2) the protocol is use-case oriented
3) it only transmits the information necessary (not more).
4) The code of these endpoints would be transactionally executed
Use-Cases with customers so far have been:
* unique nodes with locking + index lookup
* batch data insertion (also unique stuff see above)
* custom
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
It would be interesting to rephrase the question like this: Are there any use cases that the REST traversal API covers, that we currently cannot replicate in Cypher or Gremlin? On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Well, Andres has been putting the first algo into cypher and we are thinking of exposing them there so thru can be used as path functions in an expression. However, that will be step 2. WDYT? On Oct 29, 2011 6:47 PM, maxdemarzi maxdema...@gmail.com wrote: I think the traversal rest api is fine for my purposes, but if cypher is where we want to go long term, then we need to deprecate it in 1.6 and drop it in 1.7. This gives us some time to update our libraries and for cypher to settle down. Are you guys thinking of getting rid of the rest built in graph algorithms or are those there to stay? -- View this message in context: http://neo4j-community-discussions.438527.n3.nabble.com/Neo4j-REST-traverse-deprecation-tp3460396p3464979.html Sent from the Neo4j Community Discussions mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user -- Jacob Hansson Phone: +46 (0) 763503395 Twitter: @jakewins ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
Also, there is another possibility: We are exposing a ECMA script execution engine via the Traverse enpoints. Instead of trying to shoehorn the traversal API into REST calls and then anyway executing script snippets, Why not exposing a JavaScript plugin along exactly the same lines as the Groovy plugin, and provide examples on how to use the same usecases via that plugin, so we cover the traversal API that way? Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/ - Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Jacob Hansson jacob.hans...@neotechnology.com wrote: It would be interesting to rephrase the question like this: Are there any use cases that the REST traversal API covers, that we currently cannot replicate in Cypher or Gremlin? On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Well, Andres has been putting the first algo into cypher and we are thinking of exposing them there so thru can be used as path functions in an expression. However, that will be step 2. WDYT? On Oct 29, 2011 6:47 PM, maxdemarzi maxdema...@gmail.com wrote: I think the traversal rest api is fine for my purposes, but if cypher is where we want to go long term, then we need to deprecate it in 1.6 and drop it in 1.7. This gives us some time to update our libraries and for cypher to settle down. Are you guys thinking of getting rid of the rest built in graph algorithms or are those there to stay? -- View this message in context: http://neo4j-community-discussions.438527.n3.nabble.com/Neo4j-REST-traverse-deprecation-tp3460396p3464979.html Sent from the Neo4j Community Discussions mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user -- Jacob Hansson Phone: +46 (0) 763503395 Twitter: @jakewins ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
You, something like Neo4js https://github.com/neo4j/neo4js? We've had that since forever. Or do you mean something different? Andrés On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Also, there is another possibility: We are exposing a ECMA script execution engine via the Traverse enpoints. Instead of trying to shoehorn the traversal API into REST calls and then anyway executing script snippets, Why not exposing a JavaScript plugin along exactly the same lines as the Groovy plugin, and provide examples on how to use the same usecases via that plugin, so we cover the traversal API that way? Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/- Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Jacob Hansson jacob.hans...@neotechnology.com wrote: It would be interesting to rephrase the question like this: Are there any use cases that the REST traversal API covers, that we currently cannot replicate in Cypher or Gremlin? On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Well, Andres has been putting the first algo into cypher and we are thinking of exposing them there so thru can be used as path functions in an expression. However, that will be step 2. WDYT? On Oct 29, 2011 6:47 PM, maxdemarzi maxdema...@gmail.com wrote: I think the traversal rest api is fine for my purposes, but if cypher is where we want to go long term, then we need to deprecate it in 1.6 and drop it in 1.7. This gives us some time to update our libraries and for cypher to settle down. Are you guys thinking of getting rid of the rest built in graph algorithms or are those there to stay? -- View this message in context: http://neo4j-community-discussions.438527.n3.nabble.com/Neo4j-REST-traverse-deprecation-tp3460396p3464979.html Sent from the Neo4j Community Discussions mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user -- Jacob Hansson Phone: +46 (0) 763503395 Twitter: @jakewins ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
Nope, I mean a server side script execution (which we already are doing in http://docs.neo4j.org/chunked/snapshot/rest-api-traverse.html) to execute traversal API code on the server. Neo4js is a client driver. Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/ - Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Andres Taylor andres.tay...@neotechnology.com wrote: You, something like Neo4js https://github.com/neo4j/neo4js? We've had that since forever. Or do you mean something different? Andrés On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Also, there is another possibility: We are exposing a ECMA script execution engine via the Traverse enpoints. Instead of trying to shoehorn the traversal API into REST calls and then anyway executing script snippets, Why not exposing a JavaScript plugin along exactly the same lines as the Groovy plugin, and provide examples on how to use the same usecases via that plugin, so we cover the traversal API that way? Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/ - Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Jacob Hansson jacob.hans...@neotechnology.com wrote: It would be interesting to rephrase the question like this: Are there any use cases that the REST traversal API covers, that we currently cannot replicate in Cypher or Gremlin? On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Well, Andres has been putting the first algo into cypher and we are thinking of exposing them there so thru can be used as path functions in an expression. However, that will be step 2. WDYT? On Oct 29, 2011 6:47 PM, maxdemarzi maxdema...@gmail.com wrote: I think the traversal rest api is fine for my purposes, but if cypher is where we want to go long term, then we need to deprecate it in 1.6 and drop it in 1.7. This gives us some time to update our libraries and for cypher to settle down. Are you guys thinking of getting rid of the rest built in graph algorithms or are those there to stay? -- View this message in context: http://neo4j-community-discussions.438527.n3.nabble.com/Neo4j-REST-traverse-deprecation-tp3460396p3464979.html Sent from the Neo4j Community Discussions mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user -- Jacob Hansson Phone: +46 (0) 763503395 Twitter: @jakewins ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Nope, I mean a server side script execution (which we already are doing in http://docs.neo4j.org/chunked/snapshot/rest-api-traverse.html) to execute traversal API code on the server. Neo4js is a client driver. Remember that adding yet another way to talk to the server comes at a cost of confusion and spreading engineering focus thin. I don't think we should do this unless there is a good answer to the question: *Is there anything* *that this solves that is not solved by Cypher or Gremlin, and if so, why don't we expand Cypher or Gremlin to incorporate that use case instead? *Collecting our efforts in fewer buckets means that improvements will benefit everyone, not just the group that uses the Groovy endpoint, or the Traversal API, or the JS endpoint and so on. Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/- Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Andres Taylor andres.tay...@neotechnology.com wrote: You, something like Neo4js https://github.com/neo4j/neo4js? We've had that since forever. Or do you mean something different? Andrés On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Also, there is another possibility: We are exposing a ECMA script execution engine via the Traverse enpoints. Instead of trying to shoehorn the traversal API into REST calls and then anyway executing script snippets, Why not exposing a JavaScript plugin along exactly the same lines as the Groovy plugin, and provide examples on how to use the same usecases via that plugin, so we cover the traversal API that way? Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/- Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Jacob Hansson jacob.hans...@neotechnology.com wrote: It would be interesting to rephrase the question like this: Are there any use cases that the REST traversal API covers, that we currently cannot replicate in Cypher or Gremlin? On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Well, Andres has been putting the first algo into cypher and we are thinking of exposing them there so thru can be used as path functions in an expression. However, that will be step 2. WDYT? On Oct 29, 2011 6:47 PM, maxdemarzi maxdema...@gmail.com wrote: I think the traversal rest api is fine for my purposes, but if cypher is where we want to go long term, then we need to deprecate it in 1.6 and drop it in 1.7. This gives us some time to update our libraries and for cypher to settle down. Are you guys thinking of getting rid of the rest built in graph algorithms or are those there to stay? -- View this message in context: http://neo4j-community-discussions.438527.n3.nabble.com/Neo4j-REST-traverse-deprecation-tp3460396p3464979.html Sent from the Neo4j Community Discussions mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user -- Jacob Hansson Phone: +46 (0) 763503395 Twitter: @jakewins ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user -- Jacob Hansson Phone: +46 (0) 763503395 Twitter: @jakewins ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
Well, I think that Cypher is not yes taking into account Uniqueness, or is it Andres? Otherwise, most of the normal traversals are covered. To keep things consistent and give people a way of doing fine grained traversals, I would then suggest to document all the existing examples using Cypher or Groovy code, so we can document that things are working as expected and not loose functionality. The JavaScript exposure then would totally go away from the REST API and possibly be factored out into a plugin like Groovy/Gremlin. Or dropped. WDYT? Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/ - Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Jacob Hansson jacob.hans...@neotechnology.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Nope, I mean a server side script execution (which we already are doing in http://docs.neo4j.org/chunked/snapshot/rest-api-traverse.html) to execute traversal API code on the server. Neo4js is a client driver. Remember that adding yet another way to talk to the server comes at a cost of confusion and spreading engineering focus thin. I don't think we should do this unless there is a good answer to the question: *Is there anything* *that this solves that is not solved by Cypher or Gremlin, and if so, why don't we expand Cypher or Gremlin to incorporate that use case instead? *Collecting our efforts in fewer buckets means that improvements will benefit everyone, not just the group that uses the Groovy endpoint, or the Traversal API, or the JS endpoint and so on. Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/ - Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Andres Taylor andres.tay...@neotechnology.com wrote: You, something like Neo4js https://github.com/neo4j/neo4js? We've had that since forever. Or do you mean something different? Andrés On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Also, there is another possibility: We are exposing a ECMA script execution engine via the Traverse enpoints. Instead of trying to shoehorn the traversal API into REST calls and then anyway executing script snippets, Why not exposing a JavaScript plugin along exactly the same lines as the Groovy plugin, and provide examples on how to use the same usecases via that plugin, so we cover the traversal API that way? Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/ - Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Jacob Hansson jacob.hans...@neotechnology.com wrote: It would be interesting to rephrase the question like this: Are there any use cases that the REST traversal API covers, that we currently cannot replicate in Cypher or Gremlin? On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com wrote: Well, Andres has been putting the first algo into cypher and we are thinking of exposing them there so thru can be used as path functions in an expression. However, that will be step 2. WDYT? On Oct 29, 2011 6:47 PM, maxdemarzi maxdema...@gmail.com wrote: I think the traversal rest api is fine for my purposes, but if cypher is where we want to go long term, then we need to deprecate it in 1.6 and drop it in 1.7. This gives us some time to update our libraries and for cypher to settle down. Are you guys thinking of getting rid of the rest built in graph algorithms or are those there to stay? -- View this message in context: http://neo4j-community-discussions.438527.n3.nabble.com/Neo4j-REST-traverse-deprecation-tp3460396p3464979.html Sent from the Neo4j Community Discussions mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user -- Jacob Hansson Phone: +46 (0) 763503395 Twitter: @jakewins
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
Well, Andres has been putting the first algo into cypher and we are thinking of exposing them there so thru can be used as path functions in an expression. However, that will be step 2. WDYT? On Oct 29, 2011 6:47 PM, maxdemarzi maxdema...@gmail.com wrote: I think the traversal rest api is fine for my purposes, but if cypher is where we want to go long term, then we need to deprecate it in 1.6 and drop it in 1.7. This gives us some time to update our libraries and for cypher to settle down. Are you guys thinking of getting rid of the rest built in graph algorithms or are those there to stay? -- View this message in context: http://neo4j-community-discussions.438527.n3.nabble.com/Neo4j-REST-traverse-deprecation-tp3460396p3464979.html Sent from the Neo4j Community Discussions mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
I think the traversal rest api is fine for my purposes, but if cypher is where we want to go long term, then we need to deprecate it in 1.6 and drop it in 1.7. This gives us some time to update our libraries and for cypher to settle down. Are you guys thinking of getting rid of the rest built in graph algorithms or are those there to stay? -- View this message in context: http://neo4j-community-discussions.438527.n3.nabble.com/Neo4j-REST-traverse-deprecation-tp3460396p3464979.html Sent from the Neo4j Community Discussions mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
I think it's probably a good thing to deprecate it because: a) it's inferior to native traversals b) cypher and gremlin does these things much better 2011/10/28 Peter Neubauer peter.neuba...@neotechnology.com Hi all, I think that the whole concept of http://docs.neo4j.org/chunked/snapshot/rest-api-traverse.html is broken, since it tries to emulate the embedded traversal logic in REST, which is just broken. With Cypher and Gremlin being MUCH better suited to do declarative and scripted traversals, I think it is time to deprecate this part of the REST API. Is anyone going to be very sad if I go ahead and do that? Cheers, /peter neubauer GTalk: neubauer.peter Skype peter.neubauer Phone +46 704 106975 LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/neubauer Twitter http://twitter.com/peterneubauer http://www.neo4j.org - NOSQL for the Enterprise. http://startupbootcamp.org/- Öresund - Innovation happens HERE. ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user -- Mattias Persson, [matt...@neotechnology.com] Hacker, Neo Technology www.neotechnology.com ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
From the high church of REST, I have no objections. Blessed be the Roy, for he hath delivered us from RPC. Or something. Jim ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
Also, If we do that, I propose that we move the Cypher and Gremlin plugins into server. WDYT? On Oct 28, 2011 12:03 PM, Jim Webber j...@neotechnology.com wrote: From the high church of REST, I have no objections. Blessed be the Roy, for he hath delivered us from RPC. Or something. Jim ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
If we do that, I propose that we move the Cypher and Gremlin plugins into server. WDYT? I'm ambivalent about that. What end-user benefits are there versus shipping them as plugins? Jim ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
...but maybe offer different install bundles. The other danger of forcing them into the server distro is that it increases the likelihood of dependency conflicts. -Original Message- From: user-boun...@lists.neo4j.org [mailto:user-boun...@lists.neo4j.org] On Behalf Of Rick Bullotta Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 7:16 AM To: Neo4j user discussions Subject: Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation Don't Bloat. This also allows the plug-ins and language bindings to evolve at a difference pace/cycle than the server. I'd say keep them separate. -Original Message- From: user-boun...@lists.neo4j.org [mailto:user-boun...@lists.neo4j.org] On Behalf Of Jim Webber Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 7:11 AM To: Neo4j user discussions Subject: Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation If we do that, I propose that we move the Cypher and Gremlin plugins into server. WDYT? I'm ambivalent about that. What end-user benefits are there versus shipping them as plugins? Jim ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
Re: [Neo4j] REST traverse deprecation
Thank you Max! The AREL for Cypher sounds very interesting! Do you think the traversal rest api us doing its job for you given the power of hhe häva version? I can even think if having a query method on the embedded api so it fits... On Oct 29, 2011 12:19 AM, maxdemarzi maxdema...@gmail.com wrote: This change will kill phase 2 (the part that tries to mimic the Neo4j.rb API) of Neography since I use it to provide idiomatic access to neo4j. For example: def suggestions_for(node) node.incoming(:friends).order(breadth first).uniqueness(node global).filter(position.length() == 2;).depth(2) end The options are: 1. Have users enter cypher directly ex. node.cypher(some cypher query here) 2. Create an AREL for Cypher. ( https://github.com/rails/arel )If it's the right thing for Neo4j then do what you have to do. -- View this message in context: http://neo4j-community-discussions.438527.n3.nabble.com/Neo4j-REST-traverse-deprecation-tp3460396p3462201.html Sent from the Neo4j Community Discussions mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user ___ Neo4j mailing list User@lists.neo4j.org https://lists.neo4j.org/mailman/listinfo/user
