Re: Shale Roadmap
From: Niall Pemberton [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Feb 6, 2008 7:21 PM, linux.eavilesa wrote: Hi all, I've been tracking user and development mailing lists during some time, and I think that people is getting (including me) a little bit nervous about Shale project. and rightly so - the trends are stark: Overall: http://shale.markmail.org/search/?q= Dev: http://tinyurl.com/2d3e92 Commits: http://tinyurl.com/2synvm Unless those trends start to reverse, the only glimmer of hope on the horizon is/was the proposal to move the code to MyFaces. Niall, I know you are a *very* active struts and commons committer and apache supporter so I will take this to heart. Niall Gary I think that the main reason why is the fact that there is not a well defined road map now for the project and many of as have bitten to use Shale in front of other frameworks. First of all decide if Shale has a future (that I think that it does) and redefine or reinforce the project goal. So in my opinion we should focus on defining or determining three key concepts: · Define the project team organization, mainly the project leader and the development team. · Determine the release of the stable version (date and who will lead it) · Analyze each module and decide which must eliminated and which is worth keeping alive You will say Thanks for your time. Esteve
RE: Shale Roadmap
-Original Message- From: Ryan de Laplante [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:39 PM To: user@shale.apache.org Subject: Re: Shale Roadmap Hi, I'm not a Shale user or regular reader of this mailing list, although I gave it a look about a year ago. JSF 2.0 is going to be standardizing the best ideas from Shale's Clay, View Controller, Tiger extensions, and other features. JSF 2.0 is doing the same with facelets, jsftemplating, Seam, AJAX4JSF, etc. Once JSF 2.0 is out, will there be a need for bolt on frameworks like Shale, Seam, JSF Templating, Facelets, AJAX4JSF, etc? If I had the skills necessary to maintain a sophisticated framework like Shale I would join the JCP and help standardize the best features. Quite a few of the Shale committers are on the JSF 2.0 EG (as am I). It's true that a lot of these features will end up in JSF 2, but that's still a ways out (at least the end of this year, probably next year). However, there's always room to add more functionality. Also, all of the frameworks you mention serve different purposes. Seam and Shale have some overlap [1], but Seam adds a lot of stuff, and only some of it is being standardized (via JSF 2 and WebBeans). JSF 2 will support different types of templating, so there's no guarantee that alternative view technologies will go away; there will simply be a much better default. [1] Interview with Craig McClanahan, http://www.jsfcentral.com/articles/mcclanahan-05-05.html linux.eavilesa wrote: Hi all, I've been tracking user and development mailing lists during some time, and I think that people is getting (including me) a little bit nervous about Shale project. I think that the main reason why is the fact that there is not a well defined road map now for the project and many of as have bitten to use Shale in front of other frameworks. First of all decide if Shale has a future (that I think that it does) and redefine or reinforce the project goal. So in my opinion we should focus on defining or determining three key concepts: . Define the project team organization, mainly the project leader and the development team. . Determine the release of the stable version (date and who will lead it) . Analyze each module and decide which must eliminated and which is worth keeping alive You will say Thanks for your time. Esteve
Shale Roadmap
Hi all, I've been tracking user and development mailing lists during some time, and I think that people is getting (including me) a little bit nervous about Shale project. I think that the main reason why is the fact that there is not a well defined road map now for the project and many of as have bitten to use Shale in front of other frameworks. First of all decide if Shale has a future (that I think that it does) and redefine or reinforce the project goal. So in my opinion we should focus on defining or determining three key concepts: · Define the project team organization, mainly the project leader and the development team. · Determine the release of the stable version (date and who will lead it) · Analyze each module and decide which must eliminated and which is worth keeping alive You will say Thanks for your time. Esteve
Re: Shale Roadmap
Hi, I'm not a Shale user or regular reader of this mailing list, although I gave it a look about a year ago. JSF 2.0 is going to be standardizing the best ideas from Shale's Clay, View Controller, Tiger extensions, and other features. JSF 2.0 is doing the same with facelets, jsftemplating, Seam, AJAX4JSF, etc. Once JSF 2.0 is out, will there be a need for bolt on frameworks like Shale, Seam, JSF Templating, Facelets, AJAX4JSF, etc? If I had the skills necessary to maintain a sophisticated framework like Shale I would join the JCP and help standardize the best features. Thanks, Ryan linux.eavilesa wrote: Hi all, I've been tracking user and development mailing lists during some time, and I think that people is getting (including me) a little bit nervous about Shale project. I think that the main reason why is the fact that there is not a well defined road map now for the project and many of as have bitten to use Shale in front of other frameworks. First of all decide if Shale has a future (that I think that it does) and redefine or reinforce the project goal. So in my opinion we should focus on defining or determining three key concepts: · Define the project team organization, mainly the project leader and the development team. · Determine the release of the stable version (date and who will lead it) · Analyze each module and decide which must eliminated and which is worth keeping alive You will say Thanks for your time. Esteve
Re: Shale Roadmap
Hi, I move this conversation to the dev list. Esteve Greg Reddin wrote: On Feb 6, 2008 1:21 PM, linux.eavilesa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think that the main reason why is the fact that there is not a well defined road map now for the project and many of as have bitten to use Shale in front of other frameworks. Well, we do sort of have a roadmap (or at least a tool for creating one): https://issues.apache.org/struts/browse/SHALE?report=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.project:roadmap-panel As you can see we're pretty close to a release. All that remains is some people to complete the few remaining 1.0.5 tickets and do the release work. · Define the project team organization, mainly the project leader and the development team. The Shale PMC is responsible for these kinds of decisions. Apache projects don't have a single leader. Rather, they are led by the people who do the work - namely the PMC. The best way to get involved is continued participation in the mailing lists (a similar discussion is happening on the dev list so you should sign up for that as well) and adding some patches to the Jira tickets. · Determine the release of the stable version (date and who will lead it) I think 1.0.5 could easily become a stable (GA) version if we can get it out the door. Since the work is done by volunteers we don't have dates for the releases. It will happen when someone is motivated enough and has time to do it. · Analyze each module and decide which must eliminated and which is worth keeping alive Search the archives for info on this. Some discussion along that line has already taken place. For example, we have decided to discontinue support for Shale-Tiles in favor of the MyFaces Tomahawk Tiles 2 view handler. Other things were discussed as well but no firm decisions were made. There seems to be a lot of interest in seeing Shale move forward. I hope some of that interest will generate new activity. Greg
Re: Shale Roadmap
On Feb 6, 2008 7:21 PM, linux.eavilesa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I've been tracking user and development mailing lists during some time, and I think that people is getting (including me) a little bit nervous about Shale project. and rightly so - the trends are stark: Overall: http://shale.markmail.org/search/?q= Dev: http://tinyurl.com/2d3e92 Commits: http://tinyurl.com/2synvm Unless those trends start to reverse, the only glimmer of hope on the horizon is/was the proposal to move the code to MyFaces. Niall I think that the main reason why is the fact that there is not a well defined road map now for the project and many of as have bitten to use Shale in front of other frameworks. First of all decide if Shale has a future (that I think that it does) and redefine or reinforce the project goal. So in my opinion we should focus on defining or determining three key concepts: · Define the project team organization, mainly the project leader and the development team. · Determine the release of the stable version (date and who will lead it) · Analyze each module and decide which must eliminated and which is worth keeping alive You will say Thanks for your time. Esteve
