Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[leokan23]

It looks like Harman got some extra grace period from Google. AIR was added
in the list of excluded frameworks, from the 64bit enforcement, for another
12 months. This is only for existing apps, which will be updated and not for
new apps.

You can read more  here

  



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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[hugo]

"None of the tools out there are so significantly better, faster, quicker
than Flex/AIR that we'd realize significantly improved development velocity
or app performance. "
"Cross platform mobile app tools are jockeying"
Well, I have news.
In fact there is !
It's called Xamarin.

"We do not see a business reason to rewrite existing apps on a new
platform."
Very uncertain future.
I think that I don't need to explain why.

"And it makes sense for Adobe to get out of the business anyway"
Everything Adobe buy and it's coding, they give away.



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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[Erik Thomas]

All mobile development tools have their pros and cons, but our evaluation of 
the situation have led us to these conclusions:

Having more than 25 combined years of Flex development experience between my 
three-man team, about half that in mobile AIR, we somehow got very good along 
the way and can knock out new mobile apps and add features quickly without 
stress or climbing new learning curves. When you use the same tool for that 
long you develop your own extensive libraries, frameworks, widgets, utilities, 
etc., and you fine tune them during every new project. Switching platforms now 
would cost us dearly in learning curves, waiting on functionality from tool 
vendors, working around various limitations, developing our own foundation of 
code, etc., and we figure it would take a few years to get to where we'd be as 
fast as we are today.
None of the tools out there are so significantly better, faster, quicker than 
Flex/AIR that we'd realize significantly improved development velocity or app 
performance.
We have a number of apps we maintain and switching platforms means we have to 
maintain the old ones on AIR as long as possible, while learning a new stack. 
We believe this will drastically reduce overall development velocity. 
We do not see a business reason to rewrite existing apps on a new platform.
Cross platform mobile app tools are jockeying for position and some will fail 
by the time we need to switch, so deciding on any one platform now is a waste 
of time. New tools are showing up with great promise, but they have a lot of 
maturing to do to reach parity with AIR/Flex. Xamarin is mature and would be 
one we'd look at when the time comes, but who knows what this space will look 
like in a few years.

In conclusion, we have decided to ride the AIR train as long as possible, and 
if paying a vendor to maintain AIR gets us more life out of our IP and 
investment in our tech stack, then that's what we will do. It makes sense to 
pay for value. We've had a free ride on AIR for so long, that it's only right 
we pay for what we get, and with someone maintaining it for profit, we may not 
need so many ANEs, and it may be a lot less painful to deal with Apple/Google 
whims to piss off all of us with new requirements. I'd pay a lot to have 
someone else deal with Apple/Google headaches.

And it makes sense for Adobe to get out of the business anyway. They have been 
so gracious for so many years, maintaining it with virtually no revenue stream 
other than AMS licenses for folks using AIR to serve video (correct me if I'm 
wrong and there is some hidden revenue stream Adobe gets for maintaining 
AIR--but I doubt it exists).

This move was inevitable, and we are quite optimistic that we'll get another 5+ 
years out of our current mobile tech stack. 

We'll switch when the business decision becomes compelling, not before.

But for folks who don't have a lot invested in AIR, their business decision 
could be very different. 

My $.02.

Cheers,

Erik

On Jun 12, 2019, at 7:00 AM, hugo  wrote:

This can't be bad for AIR, comparing to the current state.
AIR is beeing in maintenance mode for least the last 2 years.
I was just waiting for them to officially end it.

Unfortunately Android x64 bits thing and the Adobe silent for so long until
almost until the dead line forced me to evaluate other options and I did it.
I'm moving from Flex/AIR on Mobile to Xamarin so it's hard to go back to
Flex/AIR on Mobile after this and I believe that many others are doing the
same, skrinking even futher the Flex comunity.
Xamarin, it's a complete new fresh paradigm for better, I must say.

Even so, Flex/AIR, on Desktop for me, continue to be the best option.
Desktop market is stable (comparing with Mobile).

I still don't understand why this was made silent for so long time !
It's not the launching of a rocket (even that, would be less secret !).
It was all too exaggerated, unnecessary and the result it's on your front.



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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[hugo]

This can't be bad for AIR, comparing to the current state.
AIR is beeing in maintenance mode for least the last 2 years.
I was just waiting for them to officially end it.

Unfortunately Android x64 bits thing and the Adobe silent for so long until
almost until the dead line forced me to evaluate other options and I did it.
I'm moving from Flex/AIR on Mobile to Xamarin so it's hard to go back to
Flex/AIR on Mobile after this and I believe that many others are doing the
same, skrinking even futher the Flex comunity.
Xamarin, it's a complete new fresh paradigm for better, I must say.

Even so, Flex/AIR, on Desktop for me, continue to be the best option.
Desktop market is stable (comparing with Mobile).

I still don't understand why this was made silent for so long time !
It's not the launching of a rocket (even that, would be less secret !).
It was all too exaggerated, unnecessary and the result it's on your front.



--
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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[Lydecker]

Latest Flex details from Harman:

"We want to ensure that the ‘new’ AIR SDK works with all of your existing
tools/IDEs, and have gone through a few of these internally so far to make
sure this does work. We will still publish a version that is compatible with
the Flex SDK – our aim would be to consolidate these into one, if that’s
technically possible"



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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[Carlos Rovira]

My opinion is that this movement is very interesting. As I read all news I
think it could bring lots of fresh "air" to the AIR platform.
I saw Andrew Involved in Royale and having him as a point of contact with
HARMAN makes the technology "closer" to Flex and Royale.
And seems they are thinking and have many plans to propose for AIR
platform. As well having different tiers (free, payed) seems to me the way
to go to get revenue of the platform

I think right now the main point to ensure AIR continues to be a trusted
platform is to make it always in sync with SO vendors changes and decisions
(iOS Apple Store changes, Android 64bit changes, Mac OS new 10.14.5. notary
process, and more)

So for now all seems very promising! :)


El lun., 3 jun. 2019 a las 6:26, Tucsonjhall ()
escribió:

> That actually is quite reassuring.
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://apache-flex-users.246.n4.nabble.com/
>


-- 
Carlos Rovira
http://about.me/carlosrovira

Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[Tucsonjhall]

That actually is quite reassuring. 



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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[Alex Harui]

On 6/2/19, 2:15 PM, "Tucsonjhall"  wrote:

My product is $99 per user for a year. I don't mind paying my one-seat
developer fee each year (big company of 1), but if it's a per seat license
for users, I'm going to be looking hard at migrating. 

I am also very interested in the reaction of some of the main developers
here, like Alex. How does this affect your participation in the Flex Users
Group?
  
It does not affect my participation at all.  Adobe continues to pay me to work 
on Flex and Royale.  I continue to be willing to do so.  And should Adobe 
change its mind someday, I have the option of finding other people to pay me to 
work on Flex and Royale.  That is the advantage of Flex and Royale being at 
Apache.  No corporation has complete control over who contributes to a project.

-Alex
  


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RE: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[Tucsonjhall]

My product is $99 per user for a year. I don't mind paying my one-seat
developer fee each year (big company of 1), but if it's a per seat license
for users, I'm going to be looking hard at migrating. 

I am also very interested in the reaction of some of the main developers
here, like Alex. How does this affect your participation in the Flex Users
Group?



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RE: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[leokan23]

A lot of AIR devs have pointed out that they would prefer paying for AIR if
it meant a good roadmap, communication and support. I agree that my company
wouldn't mind paying a licence / sit or anything similar to Unity (we
already pay them) for similar services.

Can't wait to hear about the plans you come up with :) 



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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[Scott]

Andrew
   All the best with this move, a bit to late for UofS, saying that 
we may look at some of the options once we see how our html5 project goes on 
mobile devices

Pricing is interesting, seen all versions of this, from Oracle in 1990’s trying 
to license end users for the web to consumption base approach 

Salesman get all hot and bothered, coming up with new models that will make 
billions in the first week, years letter you go back to what the really uses 
told you day one

unix / opens source is a good model for pricing that seems to work  

Scott


Sent from my iPhone

> On 31 May 2019, at 11:59, Paulus de B.  wrote:
> 
> Our revenue model does not depend on the number of users but on how they use
> it. So each user (actually client) gets charged a different monthly amount
> depending on usage, not on how many users this client has. And by usage, we
> mean actual processing done on our servers for our clients. They use the app
> to determine what to do, but our servers do the processing (hence we can
> charge for usage).
> 
> Therefore, with every development tool / IDE / platform / database we have
> to select, as soon as there is a per end user license we drop it from our
> list of options.
> 
> Besides the cost, the per end user license is a nightmare to administer. We
> have thousands of users currently using our Flash app which we intend on
> migrating to Flex/AIR. With users being added / removed every week I can
> tell you upfront we are not going to setup an entire administration just for
> license fees. And remember, we are coming from the Flash player in the web
> browser which both have no per end user license model. 
> 
> And what if you want a freemium model? With a per user license you can't
> roll out a freemium model because you want users to use your app for free to
> start with.
> 
> The per end user limits the deployment of apps whereas AIR is such a great
> solution to the multi platform problem it should be all over the place.
> 
> I completely understand if you are going to maintain and develop the AIR
> player you have to get paid. But the per end user route limits the AIR
> deployment severely (and thus in the end will actually give you less
> revenue).
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I love the Flex/AIR combination and we don't mind paying
> a (reasonable) developer seat fee for it. But like I said, the per end user
> license is a no go will make us drop it from our list.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://apache-flex-users.246.n4.nabble.com/

RE: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[Frost, Andrew]

Okay thanks for the detailed explanation, that makes sense! We should 
accommodate this, I can't yet give specifics but we're working on that..

thanks

   Andrew


-Original Message-
From: Paulus de B. [mailto:w.p.stuur...@knollenstein.com] 
Sent: 31 May 2019 11:59
To: users@flex.apache.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

Our revenue model does not depend on the number of users but on how they use 
it. So each user (actually client) gets charged a different monthly amount 
depending on usage, not on how many users this client has. And by usage, we 
mean actual processing done on our servers for our clients. They use the app to 
determine what to do, but our servers do the processing (hence we can charge 
for usage).

Therefore, with every development tool / IDE / platform / database we have to 
select, as soon as there is a per end user license we drop it from our list of 
options.

Besides the cost, the per end user license is a nightmare to administer. We 
have thousands of users currently using our Flash app which we intend on 
migrating to Flex/AIR. With users being added / removed every week I can tell 
you upfront we are not going to setup an entire administration just for license 
fees. And remember, we are coming from the Flash player in the web browser 
which both have no per end user license model. 

And what if you want a freemium model? With a per user license you can't roll 
out a freemium model because you want users to use your app for free to start 
with.

The per end user limits the deployment of apps whereas AIR is such a great 
solution to the multi platform problem it should be all over the place.

I completely understand if you are going to maintain and develop the AIR player 
you have to get paid. But the per end user route limits the AIR deployment 
severely (and thus in the end will actually give you less revenue).

Don't get me wrong, I love the Flex/AIR combination and we don't mind paying a 
(reasonable) developer seat fee for it. But like I said, the per end user 
license is a no go will make us drop it from our list.



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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[André Lacasse]

For myself, the company choose 2 month ago to kill the application in the
summer. We choose to focus on the web application and use the web
application on tablet. When a saw the new, I was just "Yeah another bad
public relation message from Adobe", seeing that Adobe give the support to
another company is not a problem, but reading the news and going on the
website with just a teasing with no information on the future pricing just
turn me off.

Le ven. 31 mai 2019, à 06 h 59, Paulus de B. 
a écrit :

> Our revenue model does not depend on the number of users but on how they
> use
> it. So each user (actually client) gets charged a different monthly amount
> depending on usage, not on how many users this client has. And by usage, we
> mean actual processing done on our servers for our clients. They use the
> app
> to determine what to do, but our servers do the processing (hence we can
> charge for usage).
>
> Therefore, with every development tool / IDE / platform / database we have
> to select, as soon as there is a per end user license we drop it from our
> list of options.
>
> Besides the cost, the per end user license is a nightmare to administer. We
> have thousands of users currently using our Flash app which we intend on
> migrating to Flex/AIR. With users being added / removed every week I can
> tell you upfront we are not going to setup an entire administration just
> for
> license fees. And remember, we are coming from the Flash player in the web
> browser which both have no per end user license model.
>
> And what if you want a freemium model? With a per user license you can't
> roll out a freemium model because you want users to use your app for free
> to
> start with.
>
> The per end user limits the deployment of apps whereas AIR is such a great
> solution to the multi platform problem it should be all over the place.
>
> I completely understand if you are going to maintain and develop the AIR
> player you have to get paid. But the per end user route limits the AIR
> deployment severely (and thus in the end will actually give you less
> revenue).
>
> Don't get me wrong, I love the Flex/AIR combination and we don't mind
> paying
> a (reasonable) developer seat fee for it. But like I said, the per end user
> license is a no go will make us drop it from our list.
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://apache-flex-users.246.n4.nabble.com/
>


-- 
André Lacasse, Programmeur, Scolab .

RE: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[Paulus de B.]

Our revenue model does not depend on the number of users but on how they use
it. So each user (actually client) gets charged a different monthly amount
depending on usage, not on how many users this client has. And by usage, we
mean actual processing done on our servers for our clients. They use the app
to determine what to do, but our servers do the processing (hence we can
charge for usage).

Therefore, with every development tool / IDE / platform / database we have
to select, as soon as there is a per end user license we drop it from our
list of options.

Besides the cost, the per end user license is a nightmare to administer. We
have thousands of users currently using our Flash app which we intend on
migrating to Flex/AIR. With users being added / removed every week I can
tell you upfront we are not going to setup an entire administration just for
license fees. And remember, we are coming from the Flash player in the web
browser which both have no per end user license model. 

And what if you want a freemium model? With a per user license you can't
roll out a freemium model because you want users to use your app for free to
start with.

The per end user limits the deployment of apps whereas AIR is such a great
solution to the multi platform problem it should be all over the place.

I completely understand if you are going to maintain and develop the AIR
player you have to get paid. But the per end user route limits the AIR
deployment severely (and thus in the end will actually give you less
revenue).

Don't get me wrong, I love the Flex/AIR combination and we don't mind paying
a (reasonable) developer seat fee for it. But like I said, the per end user
license is a no go will make us drop it from our list.



--
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RE: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[Frost, Andrew]

Interesting! We're currently looking at providing both of these options 
actually, but I'm curious why you say that? Does the revenue that you get from 
your applications depend upon the number of users that actually use it, or the 
number of developers that are involved in its creation..?!

We'd been looking at various models and seeing what folk are using (Unity, 
Unreal, and some others), there's still some internal discussions to conclude 
and approvals needed from higher up, but ultimately I think that all the 
numbers being discussed are going to be pretty competitive and won't break the 
bank!


cheers

  Andrew


-Original Message-
From: Paulus de B. [mailto:w.p.stuur...@knollenstein.com] 
Sent: 31 May 2019 09:07
To: users@flex.apache.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

If it is per seat licensing for the end users we are out.

Per seat licensing for developers is OK.



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RE: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[Paulus de B.]

If it is per seat licensing for the end users we are out.

Per seat licensing for developers is OK.



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RE: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[Jeff Dafoe]

Hi Andrew,



Our organization’s concern, when I mentioned this announcement, is that the 
Harman-based AIR SDK may institute per-seat licensing. Are there any 
generalizations you can reveal concerning the future licensing plans? To 
provide some background, we are converting a major Flex app from browser-based 
Flash into AIR. My boss essentially had a heart attack when he saw today’s 
announcement. To provide perspective, our software handles substantial portions 
of the logistics operations for a company that might be considered the Home 
Depot of office supplies, as well as other similarly-sized businesses.



Best,

-Jeff




From: Frost, Andrew 
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2019 5:58:43 PM
To: users@flex.apache.org
Subject: Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

Hi

I just added a little more information into the Adobe forum post [1], hope that 
helps.

>From a Flex perspective, there's still the option to create Flex-based AIR 
>apps, and these will now be supported on Android 64-bit platforms when using 
>the updated SDK, no difference there really.

For web-based applications, they could perhaps be converted to AIR apps (if 
your customers are okay with having to install an app rather than accessing a 
browser), or you could look at migrating to a web-native format e.g. via Apache 
Royale.

We have another option now, which is basically less/zero work in terms of 
migration effort, which is that we are able to also license the Flash Player 
beyond the normal (EULA) licensing terms. Which means that it would be possible 
to wrap up a special version of the player along with a browser engine (e.g. 
Electron.js) and have this locked to your content, and then this can be 
distributed (again as it if were an application, so it needs local installing). 
For security reasons, this is only possible if we lock down the content that 
the player is able to load, e.g. a whitelisted set of URLs, but it does mean 
that you can just have an application that goes and displays your existing web 
page with the Flex content running in it, without having to change anything 
other than the deployment of the app via this installable package..

Feel free to contact me for more details but I may be slow in replying, my 
inbox is filling up..!

thanks

Andrew



[1] https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2603957?start=120=0


-Original Message-
From: bilbosax [mailto:waspenc...@comcast.net]
Sent: 30 May 2019 21:23
To: users@flex.apache.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

This sounds a little exciting to me.  From my understanding, Harman has been 
involved "behind the scenes" since 2006, so this gives me the impression that 
the transition won't be horribly bumpy.  I also like that there will be a 
pricing structure to AIR, a paid product is much more likely to be able to 
deliver the kind of support and development that we will need.  My only concern 
is that I don't know if it will be associated with the Adobe brand anymore.  I 
don't know if people will be as excited to sign up for Harman AIR as they were 
about Adobe AIR.

How about all of you Flex developers here at Apache?  What does this 
announcement mean for all of you? How do you feel about this transition in AIR?



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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[Frost, Andrew]

Hi

I just added a little more information into the Adobe forum post [1], hope that 
helps.

>From a Flex perspective, there's still the option to create Flex-based AIR 
>apps, and these will now be supported on Android 64-bit platforms when using 
>the updated SDK, no difference there really.

For web-based applications, they could perhaps be converted to AIR apps (if 
your customers are okay with having to install an app rather than accessing a 
browser), or you could look at migrating to a web-native format e.g. via Apache 
Royale.

We have another option now, which is basically less/zero work in terms of 
migration effort, which is that we are able to also license the Flash Player 
beyond the normal (EULA) licensing terms. Which means that it would be possible 
to wrap up a special version of the player along with a browser engine (e.g. 
Electron.js) and have this locked to your content, and then this can be 
distributed (again as it if were an application, so it needs local installing). 
For security reasons, this is only possible if we lock down the content that 
the player is able to load, e.g. a whitelisted set of URLs, but it does mean 
that you can just have an application that goes and displays your existing web 
page with the Flex content running in it, without having to change anything 
other than the deployment of the app via this installable package..

Feel free to contact me for more details but I may be slow in replying, my 
inbox is filling up..!

thanks

Andrew



[1] https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2603957?start=120=0


-Original Message-
From: bilbosax [mailto:waspenc...@comcast.net] 
Sent: 30 May 2019 21:23
To: users@flex.apache.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

This sounds a little exciting to me.  From my understanding, Harman has been 
involved "behind the scenes" since 2006, so this gives me the impression that 
the transition won't be horribly bumpy.  I also like that there will be a 
pricing structure to AIR, a paid product is much more likely to be able to 
deliver the kind of support and development that we will need.  My only concern 
is that I don't know if it will be associated with the Adobe brand anymore.  I 
don't know if people will be as excited to sign up for Harman AIR as they were 
about Adobe AIR.

How about all of you Flex developers here at Apache?  What does this 
announcement mean for all of you? How do you feel about this transition in AIR?



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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[Paulus de B.]

I’m actually very exited about this because as said a paid version of AIR for
developers will secure the future. And Harman seems like a logical choice.



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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[leokan23]

For me and my company these were exciting news. We already started moving
mobile apps to flutter, due to Adobe being silent for a while and not
dealing with big issues like the ios12.1 restriction, Android Q crashes and
Android 64bit restriction.

We have been talking with Harman for a few days before the announcement, and
this was better than expected. At least now we can keep legacy apps which
were going to be rewritten from scratch. Paying model is more than welcome.
We already do it with unity and other  tools, so why not with AIR?



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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[bilbosax]

This sounds a little exciting to me.  From my understanding, Harman has been
involved "behind the scenes" since 2006, so this gives me the impression
that the transition won't be horribly bumpy.  I also like that there will be
a pricing structure to AIR, a paid product is much more likely to be able to
deliver the kind of support and development that we will need.  My only
concern is that I don't know if it will be associated with the Adobe brand
anymore.  I don't know if people will be as excited to sign up for Harman
AIR as they were about Adobe AIR.

How about all of you Flex developers here at Apache?  What does this
announcement mean for all of you? How do you feel about this transition in
AIR?



--
Sent from: http://apache-flex-users.246.n4.nabble.com/

Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[leokan23]

Here is the second announcement[1], this time from Adobe, which makes things
a bit clearer. 
It looks like AIR development and support is passed to Harman.

A Harman representative said that there is going to be a few tiers
concerning prices, starting with a free tier.

[1]https://theblog.adobe.com/the-future-of-adobe-air/
  



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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

[bilbosax]

Was just reading about this on the Adobe forum, but don't think I entirely
understand what is going to happen.  Is Adobe still going to do AIR
development and Harman is just going to provide support, or is Adobe handing
off AIR entirely to Harman and they take over from here??  Will AIR now
become a paid service, if so, how much?  I think I like what I am reading
because it feels like it is going to provide extended life to AIR, but I
have to admit, I don't understand at all what is actually happening.



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