[libreoffice-users] Impress 4.0.3.3 doesn't show anything in Handout view
Hello, I have a problem with Impress 4.0.3.3 on Debina Squeeze. Had the same problem on LO 3.6 too. Handout view doesn't show anything in Impress, I see six blank boxes witch represents slides. Handout can be printed to file, and that printed file shows my presentation normaly. It's hard to print to file every time I make a change. Normal view, Outline view, Notes view, and Slide Sorter works just fine. Thanks, Kruno -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Fwd: Re: off-list Re: [libreoffice-users] LO Calc - Find in a column
I'm forwarding this off-list reply so that others can get help. Kevin Suo Original Message Subject: Re: off-list Re: [libreoffice-users] LO Calc - Find in a column Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2013 18:02:09 +0800 From: Kevin Suo / 锁琨珑 suokunl...@gmail.com To: Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk Hi Tom, I see from you screenshot that your cells selected are all empty. I tried and found that if selected some cells with no value, the current selection only option is really greyed out, but if you select some cells with value (even only one cell has value), that option is available. You may try it by yourself. Best Regards, Kevin Suo from China. 于 06/08/2013 05:40 PM, Tom Davies 写道: Hi ) I think i have selected a few cells in this blank spreadsheet and still got the option greyed-out? Possibly i've done something wrong. Could also be that i haven't got experimental features switched on or that i've got something else wrong with my settings. I might try renaming my user profile later if you think it looks like i am trying the right sort of thing. Regards from Tom :) *From:* Kevin Suo / 锁琨珑 suokunl...@gmail.com *To:* Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk *Cc:* users@global.libreoffice.org users@global.libreoffice.org *Sent:* Saturday, 8 June 2013, 3:03 *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-users] LO Calc - Find in a column You are welcome. That option is greyed when there is no selection of cells. Kevin Suo Beijing, China. 06/07/2013 05:44 PM, Tom Davies: Hi :) Thanks but that option was greyed out for me so i didn't notice it. Regards from Tom :) *From:* Suo Kunlong suokunl...@gmail.com mailto:suokunl...@gmail.com *To:* users@global.libreoffice.org mailto:users@global.libreoffice.org *Sent:* Friday, 7 June 2013, 10:35 *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-users] LO Calc - Find in a column 06/07/2013 05:07 PM, Ian Whitfield : Hi All Is it possible to get Calc to search/Find in a specific column?? I have a three column list of names, (A=First, B-Surname, C=Former Name), with about 3000 entries and want to get the Search function (CTRL-F) to look in just the specific column related to the Search. I have tried to pre-select the column, (right-click), but the Search function still looks at all the columns. PCLOS 2013 and LO 3.6.5.2 Thanks for any help. IanW Pretoria RSA Select a column, then Find Replace (CTRL+H), and make sure the Current Selection Only option is selected within More Options. You may also use regular expressions if you wish. Best Regards, Kevin Suo 锁琨珑 Beijing, China -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org mailto:unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org mailto:unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org mailto:unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org mailto:unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
Hi :) ODF is implemented the way it's documented as an ISO standard. A lot of programs use the same implementation. According to devs it's fairly easy to write something that can read it. Where programs have variations on their implementation those tend to be written up as bug-reports (and gets fixed) or added to the file about what the Extended means in ODF 1.2 (Extended). So, it's all clearly documented and is true to it's documentation. That is all the reverse of all other formats In future years if you talk about trying to access large amounts of Rtf files, or DocX, then you need to know which version of the format, which version of the Office Suite, even which OS was used to create the files. Documentation about the format wont help much because implementation is so far away from it. Wrt the ribbon argument, i'm glad it's over. If the 'must have a ribbon' they can have Kingsoft [shrugs]. The reason for LO to have one has now vanished because there is an alternative to MSO that has one. People will get tired of Kingsoft and may be more receptive to LO. Regards from Tom :) From: Ken Springer snowsh...@q.com To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Friday, 7 June 2013, 23:10 Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO On 6/7/13 3:41 AM, Tom Davies wrote: snip I too wouldn't touch Kingsoft with a barge pole. I want to steer towards using formats that will be around and usable in a few years time. I want to be able to open documents maybe 10-20 years from now without having to struggle against malware and without having to try to find long-dead versions of long dead software produced by a company that may not even exist by then. You just hope the formats will be around 10-20 years from now. There's no guaranteed the current ODT format will even be viable then. Similar to the way desktop design interfaces are basically horrible on cell phones and tablets (IMO), all of it can change almost overnight with hardware changes. I stopped installing LO on the free computers I occasionally rebuild. Why? Because I guessed the odds were the recipients would be more familiar with the Office interface, or their friends that helped them would. And my goal was to make it easy for them. Plus, too many LO bugs that just pissed me off. sad smile What i tend to find is that people use all sorts of rubbishy excuses for why they 'cant' move away from certain software. They moan and grumble about petty issues in an alternative they have been handed but then go and find some other alternative that they feel more in control of because they chose it. Once they have made the break away from that certain software they become more reasonable about looking at other alternatives realistically. You're pretty much right here, Tom. It seems that while users will look at 5, 10, 15 different TV's, they don't do that with software or computer systems. And that probably has a lot to do with the fact you can't find anything in the stores to look at. I used to do this, got far, far away from that, now going back to looking for the computer tools that work for me. At the moment, I'm trying the demo of a program for writing, and if things keep working out the way they seem to be, you won't see me using Writer, Word, or any other standard office suite word processor ever again. One of the commonest grumbles i hear about LO (at the moment) is that it uses the old interface and not the nice new ribbon-bar. So, 'obviously' LO is old! (Easy to see how FUD develops, right?). Kingsoft neatly deal with that and such grumblers can now be pointed towards that as an alternative. Of course when i do that i will still be quite disparaging about the ribbon-bar specifically and about proprietary software (and formats) in general but at least now i can sound like it's not just sour grapes, just because LO hasn't got it. Now i can be seen to be offering genuine choices rather than trying to herd people in a direction they might not want to go. I get tired of hearing this ribbon argument over and over again. Some people like it. Some people don't. If you want to appeal to the most users on this aspect, give people a choice. MS does, you can hide the thing. I've not used Word regularly since 2003, so I can't say whether the menu interface that appears when you hide the ribbon is as functional as its predecessors. snip -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.4 Firefox 20.0 Thunderbird 17.0.5 LibreOffice 4.0.1.2 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
Hi :) To some extent, yes. IF it does work better. That is the crucial bit. What other people are talking about is change that ends up breaking things without improving anything. The ancient phrase is If it aint broke, don't fix it. There are plenty of innovations possible without rehashing stuff that does work. Plenty of bugs and plenty of smoothing out to do too. We do have to experiment and play around with things because maybe it will lead to magically curing a ton of stuff unexpectedly but imo those should be choices that people can choose to indulge in rather than forcing people to use them just because the dev's manager prefers it that way. Once enough people have played around and sufficient bugs have been fixed then it's time to make it the default choice but still why not give people the choice of revering to what they are most familiar with? Regards from Tom :) From: Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Friday, 7 June 2013, 22:46 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO On Fri, 7 Jun 2013, anne-ology wrote: so agree :-) 'change for the sake of change' is so inane. how can you kids be all for 'if it works, don't fix it' and then praise improvements? shouldn't your motto be, if it will work better, fix it? F. On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 12:30 PM, Girvin R. Herr girvin.h...@sbcglobal.netwrote: Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote: snip I was talking to a professor a few days ago. He does not like the newer versions due in part to the way they keep changing the interface and how to do things. I made sure he know about LO. He loved the multi language part as well. I did not like the ribbon menu system either. Sure, the type of interface that LO uses has been around for years, but that does not mean you need to change it. Refreshing or redesigning the interface, just because you can, is not a reason to. One of the good things about LO as it went from 3.3 though 4.0 is the way the interface does not change, or has a slow change so it does not stand up and slap your face with the changes. Once you learn what is where and how to do things, changing that will cause problems. Sure the interface could use some enhancements, like the persona addition, but to keep our users happy, you must not make the users relearn how to do things or where are the menu options are now located. I have been using the OO/LO office suite since OO.o 1.x and now I am using LO 3.6.6. (I have not tried LO 4.0.x, since I am still waiting for that less-buggy 4.1.5+ version to be released.) However, I have found the incremental changes to the user interface refreshing. OO.o and now LO, have made great improvements in this area with each release. Nothing to make me go back to school to get my degree on how to use it, but the changes made the functions much easier to use and more intuitive. To me, that is a big plus. I want to be productive, not have to re-learn user interfaces with each new release. Although I am a retired electronics engineer, I am _not_ a techno-geek who has to have the latest and greatest all the time. You won't find me waiting for hours outside an Apple store to buy the latest iPhone. If it works, don't fix it is my motto. Girvin Herr -- Felmon Davis Things past redress and now with me past care. -- William Shakespeare, Richard II -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
I never tried Kingsoft Office myself, but I read a little about it recently when I finally abandoned my old Nokia 3510 phone for an Android phone. I found though, that Kingsoft Office doesn't support ODF, and almost 100% of what I have is ODF so Kingsoft Office is obviously not for me, and I never installed it. I use Apache OpenOffice on my desktop (actually a laptop, but I use it as a desktop) since I found LibreOffice way too buggy, but I installed LibreOffice 4.0 for testing purposes. So far I didn't find something for my spreadsheets for my phone. I know there are ODF viewers out there, but I need to edit my files. So what I do right now, is that I enter new stuff in a Google Docs spreadsheet, and when I come home, I just copy and paste into the ”real” spreadsheet in Apache OpenOffice. It works, but isn't very convenient… Johnny Rosenberg -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: Fwd: Re: off-list Re: [libreoffice-users] LO Calc - Find in a column
Hi :) Wow! That worked. It was even selected by default, as one would expect, so that it's only the seelceted area that would get searched by default. Thanks and regards from Tom :) From: Kevin Suo / 锁琨珑 suokunl...@gmail.com To: users@global.libreoffice.org users@global.libreoffice.org Cc: Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk Sent: Saturday, 8 June 2013, 11:07 Subject: Fwd: Re: off-list Re: [libreoffice-users] LO Calc - Find in a column I'm forwarding this off-list reply so that others can get help. Kevin Suo Original Message Subject: Re: off-list Re: [libreoffice-users] LO Calc - Find in a column Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2013 18:02:09 +0800 From: Kevin Suo / 锁琨珑 suokunl...@gmail.com To: Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk Hi Tom, I see from you screenshot that your cells selected are all empty. I tried and found that if selected some cells with no value, the current selection only option is really greyed out, but if you select some cells with value (even only one cell has value), that option is available. You may try it by yourself. Best Regards, Kevin Suo from China. 于 06/08/2013 05:40 PM, Tom Davies 写道: Hi ) I think i have selected a few cells in this blank spreadsheet and still got the option greyed-out? Possibly i've done something wrong. Could also be that i haven't got experimental features switched on or that i've got something else wrong with my settings. I might try renaming my user profile later if you think it looks like i am trying the right sort of thing. Regards from Tom :) *From:* Kevin Suo / 锁琨珑 suokunl...@gmail.com *To:* Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk *Cc:* users@global.libreoffice.org users@global.libreoffice.org *Sent:* Saturday, 8 June 2013, 3:03 *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-users] LO Calc - Find in a column You are welcome. That option is greyed when there is no selection of cells. Kevin Suo Beijing, China. 06/07/2013 05:44 PM, Tom Davies: Hi :) Thanks but that option was greyed out for me so i didn't notice it. Regards from Tom :) *From:* Suo Kunlong suokunl...@gmail.com mailto:suokunl...@gmail.com *To:* users@global.libreoffice.org mailto:users@global.libreoffice.org *Sent:* Friday, 7 June 2013, 10:35 *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-users] LO Calc - Find in a column 06/07/2013 05:07 PM, Ian Whitfield : Hi All Is it possible to get Calc to search/Find in a specific column?? I have a three column list of names, (A=First, B-Surname, C=Former Name), with about 3000 entries and want to get the Search function (CTRL-F) to look in just the specific column related to the Search. I have tried to pre-select the column, (right-click), but the Search function still looks at all the columns. PCLOS 2013 and LO 3.6.5.2 Thanks for any help. IanW Pretoria RSA Select a column, then Find Replace (CTRL+H), and make sure the Current Selection Only option is selected within More Options. You may also use regular expressions if you wish. Best Regards, Kevin Suo 锁琨珑 Beijing, China -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org mailto:unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org mailto:unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org mailto:unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org mailto:unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
Jay provided a great response to this thread, but it appears as if he fell into the trap of hitting reply instead of reply all, so only I got the benefit of his response. I'm copying it below. Jay wrote: My understanding of the original XEROX research is that is for desktop GUI there is a narrow range of options and criteria to implement a good interface. What I always understood is that because the why humans interact with the surroundings and basic physiology of arms, shoulders, hands, etc. the WIMP based GUIs with menus, icons, windows, and a mouse are the most practical interfaces. The XEROX conclusions, IMHO, are still valid today. So the GUI (app or OS) should be very similar. Learning any XEROX style GUI is fairly easy for most users because it feels right. MS seemed to ignore the XEROX research with the Ribbon and the criticism of W8 indicates they ignored the research again. I read MS was concerned with the complexity of the menus in MSO and the fact that most users only used a fraction of the available commands. Two logic flaws: complex software will cause complex menus and most users probably only need to use a fraction of commands. However different users will use a different combination of commands. -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com As I think about software evolution, there was little consistency back in the DOS days. For example, Wordstar had its Ctrl-key combinations that were hard to learn but, once learned, made touch typists *very* proficient. WordPerfect preferred the Function key commands. When Windows came out, it was not immediately embraced. DOS was fast, lean and light. I recall working very efficiently on a computer with a 10 mg. hard drive with plenty of room to spare. One of the Windows selling points was that all of the programs could have a consistent UI. All programs followed the same basic menu structure (File, Edit, Format, Tools, etc.). While each program had its own quirks (page layout under File?), the general consistency of menus made programs relatively easy to figure out. Users knew that everything could be found *somewhere* in the menu. Yes, more complex commands may be deeply buried, but that was the nature of the beast. More often-used commands could be attached to icons streamlining the process. But, the icon toolbars, while quick and easy, were never intended to *replace* the menu structure, just supplement it. Toolbars are, by their nature, very much subject to user preferences. When installing LO, I immediately customize the toolbars to eliminate icons I never use. That's okay, because I know *everything* is in the menu structure. It appears that, with the ribbon, MS has tried to combine the menus and icons into one structure. But, for me at least, MS has abandoned the very logical and consistent menu structure that gave Windows its advantage over the inconsistent UIs of DOS. (And, Doug, I have tried to load PC-Write onto my computer, but it won't run on a 64-bit computer. *sigh*) Virgil -Original Message- From: Doug Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 8:39 PM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO On 06/07/2013 08:10 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote: This has been fascinating reading all of the opinions about user interfaces and the dreaded ribbon. /snip/ I've been playing recently with WriteMonkey, a markdown text editor, and I must confess, I like the UI with absolutely no toolbars or ribbons; just keystroke combinations and some basic menus. Works for me. Virgil Sounds like you should find a copy of WordStar! --doug -- Blessed are the peacemakers..for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A.M.Greeley -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: printers compatible with GnuLinux
On 06/07/2013 03:48 PM, Luuk wrote: On 07-06-2013 21:30, Stefan Gruber wrote: Tom Davies schrieb am Freitag, 7. Juni 2013 12:33: Does anyone know of companies that do product-lines that are easily compatible with GnuLinux? Look at Kyocera TASKalfa Series... fifteen years ago, Kyocera was crap. I sure hope they improved their stuff since that time. I think I have seen this brand here in the Northeast USA. HP is one of the major brands for the big office printer, copier, fax, collating, stapling and multi-tray office machine. There are others, but so far it seems that the driver for Ubuntu with HP CUPS has the most printer tray and paper/envelope sizes/styles of all of the other brands of printers I have tried on my system. I really think the key will be which brand and model of big office printer has the best driver, with the most options, for Linux. That is in the subject line after all. I have had [and have] some nice printers that currently have no proper Linux driver[s]. My HP 7000 wide format will print letter size [8.5 by 11 inches] but will not print the 11 by 17 inch paper, for which I bought it. I have to use my Win7 boot of my dual booting laptop to use that printer. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: printers compatible with GnuLinux
On 06/08/2013 08:49 AM, Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote: On 06/07/2013 03:48 PM, Luuk wrote: On 07-06-2013 21:30, Stefan Gruber wrote: Tom Davies schrieb am Freitag, 7. Juni 2013 12:33: Does anyone know of companies that do product-lines that are easily compatible with GnuLinux? Look at Kyocera TASKalfa Series... fifteen years ago, Kyocera was crap. I sure hope they improved their stuff since that time. I think I have seen this brand here in the Northeast USA. HP is one of the major brands for the big office printer, copier, fax, collating, stapling and multi-tray office machine. There are others, but so far it seems that the driver for Ubuntu with HP CUPS has the most printer tray and paper/envelope sizes/styles of all of the other brands of printers I have tried on my system. I really think the key will be which brand and model of big office printer has the best driver, with the most options, for Linux. That is in the subject line after all. I have had [and have] some nice printers that currently have no proper Linux driver[s]. My HP 7000 wide format will print letter size [8.5 by 11 inches] but will not print the 11 by 17 inch paper, for which I bought it. I have to use my Win7 boot of my dual booting laptop to use that printer. EDIT I just got the HP 7000 printer to work with Ubuntu. Current driver from HP's Linux site is 3.13.5 The Ubuntu 12.04 repository has version 3.12.2 so I installed or reinstalled; hplip hplip-gui hplip-cups printer-driver-hpijs printer-driver-hpcups hplip-ppds and all of their associated packages. Now it works. It seems that the newest version that HP's Linux driver page does not want to work, or I needed one or more of the listed packages that were not installed by doing sh hplip-3-13-5.run. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] GIMP - was: CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
On 06/07/2013 03:50 PM, Girvin R. Herr wrote: Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote: snip I need to relearn the interface for Paint Shop Pro X5, when I used version 5 since the XP days. But since I can not get v5 to install on Win7 Home Premium that my laptop has, I had to upgrade it and relearn the new interface. Same with PSP 5 or X5 vs. GIMP. The time it takes to relearn how to do the things that comes very easily to me with the old interface, well it is very frustrating to say the least and has taken 2 to 5 times longer to do the things I want/need to do. Ahh! The Gimp. Great program and I do have some use for it. However, learning it has a _steep_ learning curve for me and, frankly, sitting at the screen and reading the online manual is not what I would prefer using my limited time for. There are several learning books out there, but which one is the best one I need to learn The Gimp? That is my problem with it. Once or twice I fiddled with it and got it to do somewhat what I wanted, but it wasn't very intuitive and I feel it could do so much more for me. If I could just get a good book on it and sit down and play with it... Girvin Herr snip Yes GIMP has a steep learning curve. As for learning curves, ever try to use Photoshop? Now that has a steep learning curve if you have not dealt with such a package before. PSP5 was so easy to use and learn, plus it had everything I wanted or needed for my work. Also GIMP does not have all of the filters that I had with Paint Shop Pro 5 [or the new X5]. If there was an easier and/or better graphics program that I could use with Ubuntu 12.05, then I would give it a try. Sometimes the books I have seen in the stores, or online, seem to be written by and for the graphic artist, and not those of us who need it for the more simple things, like repairing old photos or dealing with simple pixel-based graphics. for all [most] vector-based graphics, I use Inkscape. I have not really sat down and learned Draw for these things, yet. I am so use to Corel Draw 11, Inkscape is similar enough to use, is I am using Ubuntu. I have Corel Draw 11 on a Win7 laptop. I just wish I really had the time to sit down and play with the packages, GIMP, Draw, and others, with a good book of instructions to help walk me through the processes. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Normal font look bold with 100% scale
On 06/07/2013 11:06 PM, Ken Springer wrote: On 6/7/13 4:46 AM, DJViking wrote: Using font UWH Bookman L some letters look bold while in fact they are normal. Look at this screenshot of Libreoffice with some test text. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-lDdSLkpJa5dFdhUWNVUEpya0k/edit?usp=sharing The document scale i 100%. If I choose a higher scale it looks normal. Windows used to be terrible about this kind of stuff. The culprit usually turned out to be the graphics card and drivers, AFAIK. I have seen this before with some fonts. Is it bold on the screen and proper printed out, or bold on both the screen and print? -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
Hi :) That point keeps coming up but it best said the other way around 80% of MSO almost never gets used. Then split the remaining 20% up between different sorts of users. Most people only use the Save button, Bold, Centre, Underline, copypaste errr that's about it. Oh, receive email and reply. More advanced users insert pictures or graphics or go the other way into using spreadsheets and/or maybe know how to start a fresh new email. So even of that 20% there is a lot of stuff that people don't use or even know about. It's just that within that 20% some people use some and others use different bits. That still leaves 80% almost untouched by anyone. The way this is generally talked about is that everyone uses different things and so if you take enough people you find that there is an even spread of all parts being used by a roughly equal percentage of people. However that is NOT what we are seeing. Think about it this way instead, how many people do you know of that don't know how to make something bold? Almost everyone knows that, right? They might manage to fluff it badly but at least they can manage that much. Now, how many can switch from left to right or fully justified? Not so many. Quite a lot of people don't even know what you are talking about or think it looks too strange or 'different' (or cool). How many people know how to mail-merge? Not as many as know how to use bold!! Regards from Tom :) From: Virgil Arrington cuyfa...@hotmail.com To: Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net; users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Saturday, 8 June 2013, 13:44 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO Jay provided a great response to this thread, but it appears as if he fell into the trap of hitting reply instead of reply all, so only I got the benefit of his response. I'm copying it below. Jay wrote: My understanding of the original XEROX research is that is for desktop GUI there is a narrow range of options and criteria to implement a good interface. What I always understood is that because the why humans interact with the surroundings and basic physiology of arms, shoulders, hands, etc. the WIMP based GUIs with menus, icons, windows, and a mouse are the most practical interfaces. The XEROX conclusions, IMHO, are still valid today. So the GUI (app or OS) should be very similar. Learning any XEROX style GUI is fairly easy for most users because it feels right. MS seemed to ignore the XEROX research with the Ribbon and the criticism of W8 indicates they ignored the research again. I read MS was concerned with the complexity of the menus in MSO and the fact that most users only used a fraction of the available commands. Two logic flaws: complex software will cause complex menus and most users probably only need to use a fraction of commands. However different users will use a different combination of commands. -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com As I think about software evolution, there was little consistency back in the DOS days. For example, Wordstar had its Ctrl-key combinations that were hard to learn but, once learned, made touch typists *very* proficient. WordPerfect preferred the Function key commands. When Windows came out, it was not immediately embraced. DOS was fast, lean and light. I recall working very efficiently on a computer with a 10 mg. hard drive with plenty of room to spare. One of the Windows selling points was that all of the programs could have a consistent UI. All programs followed the same basic menu structure (File, Edit, Format, Tools, etc.). While each program had its own quirks (page layout under File?), the general consistency of menus made programs relatively easy to figure out. Users knew that everything could be found *somewhere* in the menu. Yes, more complex commands may be deeply buried, but that was the nature of the beast. More often-used commands could be attached to icons streamlining the process. But, the icon toolbars, while quick and easy, were never intended to *replace* the menu structure, just supplement it. Toolbars are, by their nature, very much subject to user preferences. When installing LO, I immediately customize the toolbars to eliminate icons I never use. That's okay, because I know *everything* is in the menu structure. It appears that, with the ribbon, MS has tried to combine the menus and icons into one structure. But, for me at least, MS has abandoned the very logical and consistent menu structure that gave Windows its advantage over the inconsistent UIs of DOS. (And, Doug, I have tried to load PC-Write onto my computer, but it won't run on a 64-bit computer. *sigh*) Virgil -Original Message- From: Doug Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 8:39 PM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO On 06/07/2013 08:10 PM, Virgil
Re: [libreoffice-users] GIMP - was: CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
Hi :) Gimp and Photoshop are about as complex as each other. The interfaces are roughly similar to the point where if you have used one you could probably work out what was going on in the other. They do have slightly different approaches which means people familiar with one often claim the other is not as advanced or can't do suchsuch because they don't know how to do it. It usually turns out they both have the same capabilities. Both have extra packages/add-ons and extra filters/effects which you can buy/acquire/download. Gimp tries to stay light so that it can work on really low-spec systems but it has a lot of stuff you can add to it. Photoshop possibly has more bloat by default. [shrugs] Regards from Tom :) From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster webmas...@krackedpress.com To: LibreO - Users Global users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Saturday, 8 June 2013, 15:04 Subject: [libreoffice-users] GIMP - was: CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO On 06/07/2013 03:50 PM, Girvin R. Herr wrote: Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote: snip I need to relearn the interface for Paint Shop Pro X5, when I used version 5 since the XP days. But since I can not get v5 to install on Win7 Home Premium that my laptop has, I had to upgrade it and relearn the new interface. Same with PSP 5 or X5 vs. GIMP. The time it takes to relearn how to do the things that comes very easily to me with the old interface, well it is very frustrating to say the least and has taken 2 to 5 times longer to do the things I want/need to do. Ahh! The Gimp. Great program and I do have some use for it. However, learning it has a _steep_ learning curve for me and, frankly, sitting at the screen and reading the online manual is not what I would prefer using my limited time for. There are several learning books out there, but which one is the best one I need to learn The Gimp? That is my problem with it. Once or twice I fiddled with it and got it to do somewhat what I wanted, but it wasn't very intuitive and I feel it could do so much more for me. If I could just get a good book on it and sit down and play with it... Girvin Herr snip Yes GIMP has a steep learning curve. As for learning curves, ever try to use Photoshop? Now that has a steep learning curve if you have not dealt with such a package before. PSP5 was so easy to use and learn, plus it had everything I wanted or needed for my work. Also GIMP does not have all of the filters that I had with Paint Shop Pro 5 [or the new X5]. If there was an easier and/or better graphics program that I could use with Ubuntu 12.05, then I would give it a try. Sometimes the books I have seen in the stores, or online, seem to be written by and for the graphic artist, and not those of us who need it for the more simple things, like repairing old photos or dealing with simple pixel-based graphics. for all [most] vector-based graphics, I use Inkscape. I have not really sat down and learned Draw for these things, yet. I am so use to Corel Draw 11, Inkscape is similar enough to use, is I am using Ubuntu. I have Corel Draw 11 on a Win7 laptop. I just wish I really had the time to sit down and play with the packages, GIMP, Draw, and others, with a good book of instructions to help walk me through the processes. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
On Sat, 08 Jun 2013 10:16:42 -0400, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) That point keeps coming up but it best said the other way around 80% of MSO almost never gets used. Then split the remaining 20% up between different sorts of users. Most people only use the Save button, Bold, Centre, Underline, copypaste errr that's about it. Oh, receive email and reply. More advanced users insert pictures or graphics or go the other way into using spreadsheets and/or maybe know how to start a fresh new email. So even of that 20% there is a lot of stuff that people don't use or even know about. It's just that within that 20% some people use some and others use different bits. That still leaves 80% almost untouched by anyone. The way this is generally talked about is that everyone uses different things and so if you take enough people you find that there is an even spread of all parts being used by a roughly equal percentage of people. However that is NOT what we are seeing. Think about it this way instead, how many people do you know of that don't know how to make something bold? Almost everyone knows that, right? They might manage to fluff it badly but at least they can manage that much. Now, how many can switch from left to right or fully justified? Not so many. Quite a lot of people don't even know what you are talking about or think it looks too strange or 'different' (or cool). How many people know how to mail-merge? Not as many as know how to use bold!! Regards from Tom :) IMHO the percentage of features used by 95% of users on LO or MSO is probably about 50 to 60% of those available - no research just navel gazing. I was talking to a colleague on another list about this point. MS has had a history of adding features to MSO that most users either would never use it or have no idea the feature is there (and probably would never use it). Part of the problem, particularly for commercial software, is the true core features of an office suite have been implemented years ago and only need refining. Tom's example of mail merge has been around for at least 20 years - I used it with WordPerfect in the mid 90's and it was not a new feature then. So to entice buyers/users MS and others must add features that sound nice but very few people will ever use. A related problem is that most users are users. They want to get something do but do not want to spend a lot of time learning the software beyond a minimum to do their jobs. So if you asked them to do a mail-merge with LO, AOO, MSO, etc. you would get a blank stare. They do not know it can be do and are amazed you can do it. From: Virgil Arrington cuyfa...@hotmail.com To: Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net; users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Saturday, 8 June 2013, 13:44 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO Jay provided a great response to this thread, but it appears as if he fell into the trap of hitting reply instead of reply all, so only I got the benefit of his response. I'm copying it below. Jay wrote: My understanding of the original XEROX research is that is for desktop GUI there is a narrow range of options and criteria to implement a good interface. What I always understood is that because the why humans interact with the surroundings and basic physiology of arms, shoulders, hands, etc. the WIMP based GUIs with menus, icons, windows, and a mouse are the most practical interfaces. The XEROX conclusions, IMHO, are still valid today. So the GUI (app or OS) should be very similar. Learning any XEROX style GUI is fairly easy for most users because it feels right. MS seemed to ignore the XEROX research with the Ribbon and the criticism of W8 indicates they ignored the research again. I read MS was concerned with the complexity of the menus in MSO and the fact that most users only used a fraction of the available commands. Two logic flaws: complex software will cause complex menus and most users probably only need to use a fraction of commands. However different users will use a different combination of commands. -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com As I think about software evolution, there was little consistency back in the DOS days. For example, Wordstar had its Ctrl-key combinations that were hard to learn but, once learned, made touch typists *very* proficient. WordPerfect preferred the Function key commands. When Windows came out, it was not immediately embraced. DOS was fast, lean and light. I recall working very efficiently on a computer with a 10 mg. hard drive with plenty of room to spare. One of the Windows selling points was that all of the programs could have a consistent UI. All programs followed the same basic menu structure (File, Edit, Format, Tools, etc.). While each program had its own quirks (page layout under File?), the general
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: printers compatible with GnuLinux
W dniu 07.06.2013 15:03, Tom Davies pisze:Mieszko's might even help me fix our current Oki and Ricoh printers which would be a double-plus in my favour.I haven't got experience with OkiLinux - maybe I am wrong but if printer uses PostScript should works.Long time ago I had Ricoh - didn't remember model, but in PCL worked OK with Debian 4 including select trays, paper dimension, single/double sided printout, etc.In PPDwas described all functions and worked.-- =Confidentiality note:brThe information in this email and any attachment contains confidential and proprietary information of WETZEL Holding AG and/or its affiliates and may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited and may cause liability. In case you have received this message due to an error in transmission, we kindly ask you to notify the sender immediately and to delete this email and any attachment from your system. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
On 06/08/2013 11:32 AM, Jay Lozier wrote: On Sat, 08 Jun 2013 10:16:42 -0400, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) That point keeps coming up but it best said the other way around 80% of MSO almost never gets used. Then split the remaining 20% up between different sorts of users. Most people only use the Save button, Bold, Centre, Underline, copypaste errr that's about it. Oh, receive email and reply. More advanced users insert pictures or graphics or go the other way into using spreadsheets and/or maybe know how to start a fresh new email. So even of that 20% there is a lot of stuff that people don't use or even know about. It's just that within that 20% some people use some and others use different bits. That still leaves 80% almost untouched by anyone. The way this is generally talked about is that everyone uses different things and so if you take enough people you find that there is an even spread of all parts being used by a roughly equal percentage of people. However that is NOT what we are seeing. Think about it this way instead, how many people do you know of that don't know how to make something bold? Almost everyone knows that, right? They might manage to fluff it badly but at least they can manage that much. Now, how many can switch from left to right or fully justified? Not so many. Quite a lot of people don't even know what you are talking about or think it looks too strange or 'different' (or cool). How many people know how to mail-merge? Not as many as know how to use bold!! Regards from Tom :) IMHO the percentage of features used by 95% of users on LO or MSO is probably about 50 to 60% of those available - no research just navel gazing. I was talking to a colleague on another list about this point. MS has had a history of adding features to MSO that most users either would never use it or have no idea the feature is there (and probably would never use it). Part of the problem, particularly for commercial software, is the true core features of an office suite have been implemented years ago and only need refining. Tom's example of mail merge has been around for at least 20 years - I used it with WordPerfect in the mid 90's and it was not a new feature then. So to entice buyers/users MS and others must add features that sound nice but very few people will ever use. The last time I heard of a MSO figure, it was: 95% of the MSO users uses less than 5% of the features. That was mostly for Word and Excel users. I have heard other figures like 90% uses 10%, but the highest figure was the 15% of the features of Word and Excel combined. All of the rest are for the power users and need a good and detailed book to teach you - step by step - how to use these complex power user features and options. For all of the people I have dealt with, none would be called a power user by any means. I remember seeing a magazine advertisement for MSO, from several years ago, that stated that they added over 1,000 new and improved feature over the previous version. That may have been for the MSO 2003 version. MSO-2003 was the last one I bought, with the first being MSO-97 I believe. How many people would want to learn 1,000 features for their office package? I may use 100 +/- features of LO and that is more than enough to do what I need to do. A related problem is that most users are users. They want to get something do but do not want to spend a lot of time learning the software beyond a minimum to do their jobs. So if you asked them to do a mail-merge with LO, AOO, MSO, etc. you would get a blank stare. They do not know it can be do and are amazed you can do it. I use to deal with mail-merging lists with a form document, but I have not done that for a long time. From: Virgil Arrington cuyfa...@hotmail.com To: Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net; users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Saturday, 8 June 2013, 13:44 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO Jay provided a great response to this thread, but it appears as if he fell into the trap of hitting reply instead of reply all, so only I got the benefit of his response. I'm copying it below. Jay wrote: My understanding of the original XEROX research is that is for desktop GUI there is a narrow range of options and criteria to implement a good interface. What I always understood is that because the why humans interact with the surroundings and basic physiology of arms, shoulders, hands, etc. the WIMP based GUIs with menus, icons, windows, and a mouse are the most practical interfaces. The XEROX conclusions, IMHO, are still valid today. So the GUI (app or OS) should be very similar. Learning any XEROX style GUI is fairly easy for most users because it feels right. MS seemed to ignore the XEROX research with the Ribbon and the criticism of W8 indicates they ignored the research
Re: [libreoffice-users] printers compatible with GnuLinux
html head meta content=text/html; charset=UTF-8 http-equiv=Content-Type /head body bgcolor=#f0fff0 alink=#EE link=#EE text=#00 vlink=#551A8B smallfont color=#003300 face=VerdanaW dniu 07.06.2013 16:35, Kracked_P_P---webmaster pisze:/font/small blockquote cite=mid:51b1efbf.9010...@krackedpress.com type=citesmallfont color=#003300 face=Verdana I wonder if you can install the drivers without having the printers installed so you can test the drivers for their options within LO. br br The same hpcups driver would not give me tray options when printing an email using Thunderbird, as it did with LO. SO, it is important to test the drivers with the packages you will be needing. /fontfont color=#003300 /fontfont color=#003300 face=Verdanabr /font/small/blockquote smallfont color=#003300 face=Verdanabr For TEST exists functions: (be carrefull, made copy of old PPD file)br br I don't know what is your distro and which version of CUPS do you use. Based on my Debian - from about CUPS version 1.2 is possible for test install ANY printer driver. Download your-desired-model PPD from OpenPrinting and replace the file by hand in folder /etc/cups/ppd/old-file.ppd as overwriting. Restart CUPS+LO (or reboot your computer) and you can test printer functions. Of course the real printout on the paper can be not possible.br br /font/small blockquote cite=mid:51b1efbf.9010...@krackedpress.com type=citesmall font color=#003300 face=VerdanaAs for the big, copy/printer/collate/stapling machine, They have it on the office downstairs. IT is also a FAX machine. These are the type of all-in-one machines that many offices choose and we really need to make sure that LO, with the OS's drivers, can access all of the needed functions included withing that office printing device. /font/small/blockquote smallfont color=#003300 face=Verdanabr For FAX function from printer connected via USB in the past I used Kfax from KDE3. Has anyone experience with any new/modern multi-function device-printer connected via IP address? I have got 2pcs devices but none can be connected to telephone line.br br br /font/small div class=moz-signaturesmallfont color=#003300 face=Verdana-- br img src=cid:part1.07040204.02010801@wetzel.pl border=0/font/small/div p style=margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; class=MsoNormalspan style=font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; lang=EN-USfont style=font-family: Arial; font-size: 13px;Confidentiality note:brThe information in this email and any attachment contains confidential and proprietary information of WETZEL Holding AG and/or its affiliates and may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited and may cause liability. In case you have received this message due to an error in transmission, we kindly ask you to notify the sender immediately and to delete this email and any attachment from your system./font/span/p/body /html -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
On Sat, 08 Jun 2013 12:04:20 -0400, Kracked_P_P---webmaster webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: On 06/08/2013 11:32 AM, Jay Lozier wrote: On Sat, 08 Jun 2013 10:16:42 -0400, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) That point keeps coming up but it best said the other way around 80% of MSO almost never gets used. Then split the remaining 20% up between different sorts of users. Most people only use the Save button, Bold, Centre, Underline, copypaste errr that's about it. Oh, receive email and reply. More advanced users insert pictures or graphics or go the other way into using spreadsheets and/or maybe know how to start a fresh new email. So even of that 20% there is a lot of stuff that people don't use or even know about. It's just that within that 20% some people use some and others use different bits. That still leaves 80% almost untouched by anyone. The way this is generally talked about is that everyone uses different things and so if you take enough people you find that there is an even spread of all parts being used by a roughly equal percentage of people. However that is NOT what we are seeing. Think about it this way instead, how many people do you know of that don't know how to make something bold? Almost everyone knows that, right? They might manage to fluff it badly but at least they can manage that much. Now, how many can switch from left to right or fully justified? Not so many. Quite a lot of people don't even know what you are talking about or think it looks too strange or 'different' (or cool). How many people know how to mail-merge? Not as many as know how to use bold!! Regards from Tom :) IMHO the percentage of features used by 95% of users on LO or MSO is probably about 50 to 60% of those available - no research just navel gazing. I was talking to a colleague on another list about this point. MS has had a history of adding features to MSO that most users either would never use it or have no idea the feature is there (and probably would never use it). Part of the problem, particularly for commercial software, is the true core features of an office suite have been implemented years ago and only need refining. Tom's example of mail merge has been around for at least 20 years - I used it with WordPerfect in the mid 90's and it was not a new feature then. So to entice buyers/users MS and others must add features that sound nice but very few people will ever use. The last time I heard of a MSO figure, it was: 95% of the MSO users uses less than 5% of the features. That was mostly for Word and Excel users. I have heard other figures like 90% uses 10%, but the highest figure was the 15% of the features of Word and Excel combined. All of the rest are for the power users and need a good and detailed book to teach you - step by step - how to use these complex power user features and options. For all of the people I have dealt with, none would be called a power user by any means. I remember seeing a magazine advertisement for MSO, from several years ago, that stated that they added over 1,000 new and improved feature over the previous version. That may have been for the MSO 2003 version. MSO-2003 was the last one I bought, with the first being MSO-97 I believe. How many people would want to learn 1,000 features for their office package? I may use 100 +/- features of LO and that is more than enough to do what I need to do. I think there is a basic agreement that at least 25% of the features in MSO could be eliminated and no one would notice. I would not be surprised if LO and AOO could eliminate about 20% of the features without anyone noticing. I am suggesting any features be eliminated just that all office suites could probably go on a feature diet and actually improve their products. Just that some need a more rigorous diet than others. I think what happens is someone thinks something would be a nice feature. They ask a focus group (or survey) about it and the group says it sounds good. But what is never asked is would you do actually miss the feature or use the feature if it was present. So the feature gets added. The sense I get from the list is that feature set of MSO 2000 or XP hits the sweet spot for almost all users. The later MSO versions do not really add features the vast majority of users need, care about, or truly want. Or the feature can easily be implemented by other methods external to the suite. For example file sharing and collaboration with remote users can be done using a variety tools external to MSO or LO. I suspect that most if asked would say it is a good feature to include. But if you ask would they ever use it, the answer is no. In fact it can be fairly easily use external tools. A related problem is that most users are users. They want to get something do but do not want to spend a lot of time
[libreoffice-users] PostScript -= was: [printers compatible with GnuLinux]
big remark:if you use printer with PostScript but print complex object you will need a lot of memory in printer.I have got Xerox Phaser 7750 with 384MB ram and on the A3 paper from time to time we receive errors on the printouts.This is system independent (Linux, OSX, Win). -- =Confidentiality note:brThe information in this email and any attachment contains confidential and proprietary information of WETZEL Holding AG and/or its affiliates and may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited and may cause liability. In case you have received this message due to an error in transmission, we kindly ask you to notify the sender immediately and to delete this email and any attachment from your system. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] printers compatible with GnuLinux
I use Ubuntu 12.04 on my desktop, with MATE desktop environment. The key, for the printer drivers/PPDs, is finding the ones that have the most options. When my Epson printer still worked properly, I had 3 printer-driver version of that printer setup. Each had a different combination of print options, with none having all the options I wanted to use. I have 2 installed for the HP2300dn dulpex laser printer. I now have one working for the HP Officejet 7000 wide format printer [finally]. I also use CUPS-PDF as my default printer. For FAX, I prefer to use the stand-alone FAX options instead of through the computer to printer option. The only reason I keep my Epson Artisan 810 around, after I got the ink pad end of life warning is for its FAX machine functions. I do about 1 FAX per month, as an average. Since my only computer that has a FAX/modem phone cable plug-in is a half dead HP laptop with XP on it, I really need to have the outgoing standalone FAX option kept ready to use. All I need to do it plug the phone line in and turn it on. On 06/08/2013 12:20 PM, Mieszko Kaczmarczyk wrote: W dniu 07.06.2013 16:35, Kracked_P_P---webmaster pisze: I wonder if you can install the drivers without having the printers installed so you can test the drivers for their options within LO. The same hpcups driver would not give me tray options when printing an email using Thunderbird, as it did with LO. SO, it is important to test the drivers with the packages you will be needing. For TEST exists functions: (be carrefull, made copy of old PPD file) I don't know what is your distro and which version of CUPS do you use. Based on my Debian - from about CUPS version 1.2 is possible for test install ANY printer driver. Download your-desired-model PPD from OpenPrinting and replace the file by hand in folder /etc/cups/ppd/old-file.ppd as overwriting. Restart CUPS+LO (or reboot your computer) and you can test printer functions. Of course the real printout on the paper can be not possible. As for the big, copy/printer/collate/stapling machine, They have it on the office downstairs. IT is also a FAX machine. These are the type of all-in-one machines that many offices choose and we really need to make sure that LO, with the OS's drivers, can access all of the needed functions included withing that office printing device. For FAX function from printer connected via USB in the past I used Kfax from KDE3. Has anyone experience with any new/modern multi-function device-printer connected via IP address? I have got 2pcs devices but none can be connected to telephone line. -- Confidentiality note: The information in this email and any attachment contains confidential and proprietary information of WETZEL Holding AG and/or its affiliates and may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited and may cause liability. In case you have received this message due to an error in transmission, we kindly ask you to notify the sender immediately and to delete this email and any attachment from your system. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
Hi, jumping in the bandwaggon.. Le 08/06/2013 18:33, Jay Lozier a écrit : I think there is a basic agreement that at least 25% of the features in MSO could be eliminated and no one would notice. I would not be surprised if LO and AOO could eliminate about 20% of the features without anyone noticing. I am suggesting any features be eliminated just that all office suites could probably go on a feature diet and actually improve their products. Just that some need a more rigorous diet than others. An idea I've been having for 20+ years now is: how about an office automation tool (wordprocessor, spreadsheet, whatever) that would come with the bare minimal features (define: bare minimal) and could be enhanced by adding features through a plugin system à la LibreOffice extensions? This way, anyone could tailor the software to their exact needs and the tools devs would focus on dedicated areas to add features. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] LibreOffice 3.6 Base Handbook published
Le 05/06/2013 07:28, Jean-Francois Nifenecker a écrit : Ordered by Lulu :) and received today! Nice job Lulu! And my thanks again to the doc team :) -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Fwd: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
Ok, sorry. Did it again. Replied privately, that is. Here's to the list: -- Forwarded message -- From: Johnny Rosenberg gurus.knu...@gmail.com Date: 2013/6/8 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO To: Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com 2013/6/8 Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com: On Sat, 08 Jun 2013 12:04:20 -0400, Kracked_P_P---webmaster webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: On 06/08/2013 11:32 AM, Jay Lozier wrote: On Sat, 08 Jun 2013 10:16:42 -0400, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) That point keeps coming up but it best said the other way around 80% of MSO almost never gets used. Then split the remaining 20% up between different sorts of users. Most people only use the Save button, Bold, Centre, Underline, copypaste errr that's about it. Oh, receive email and reply. More advanced users insert pictures or graphics or go the other way into using spreadsheets and/or maybe know how to start a fresh new email. So even of that 20% there is a lot of stuff that people don't use or even know about. It's just that within that 20% some people use some and others use different bits. That still leaves 80% almost untouched by anyone. The way this is generally talked about is that everyone uses different things and so if you take enough people you find that there is an even spread of all parts being used by a roughly equal percentage of people. However that is NOT what we are seeing. Think about it this way instead, how many people do you know of that don't know how to make something bold? Almost everyone knows that, right? They might manage to fluff it badly but at least they can manage that much. Now, how many can switch from left to right or fully justified? Not so many. Quite a lot of people don't even know what you are talking about or think it looks too strange or 'different' (or cool). How many people know how to mail-merge? Not as many as know how to use bold!! Regards from Tom :) IMHO the percentage of features used by 95% of users on LO or MSO is probably about 50 to 60% of those available - no research just navel gazing. I was talking to a colleague on another list about this point. MS has had a history of adding features to MSO that most users either would never use it or have no idea the feature is there (and probably would never use it). Part of the problem, particularly for commercial software, is the true core features of an office suite have been implemented years ago and only need refining. Tom's example of mail merge has been around for at least 20 years - I used it with WordPerfect in the mid 90's and it was not a new feature then. So to entice buyers/users MS and others must add features that sound nice but very few people will ever use. The last time I heard of a MSO figure, it was: 95% of the MSO users uses less than 5% of the features. That was mostly for Word and Excel users. I have heard other figures like 90% uses 10%, but the highest figure was the 15% of the features of Word and Excel combined. All of the rest are for the power users and need a good and detailed book to teach you - step by step - how to use these complex power user features and options. For all of the people I have dealt with, none would be called a power user by any means. I remember seeing a magazine advertisement for MSO, from several years ago, that stated that they added over 1,000 new and improved feature over the previous version. That may have been for the MSO 2003 version. MSO-2003 was the last one I bought, with the first being MSO-97 I believe. How many people would want to learn 1,000 features for their office package? I may use 100 +/- features of LO and that is more than enough to do what I need to do. I think there is a basic agreement that at least 25% of the features in MSO could be eliminated and no one would notice. I would not be surprised if LO and AOO could eliminate about 20% of the features without anyone noticing. I am suggesting any features be eliminated just that all office suites could probably go on a feature diet and actually improve their products. Just that some need a more rigorous diet than others. I wanted to create a spreadsheet a while ago, that was a little less complicated than what I usually do, so I though that I could use Gnumeric instead of LibreOffice/Apache OpenOffice Calc. It wasn't long before I ran into the wall. I found its limitations surprisingly fast. What are you supposed to use that crap for? That definitely beats me. Maybe it's not the same thing with AbiWord, I don't know, I never use word processors. Or almost never, anyway. When I write, I usually write in mailing lists or forums, or in text editors (scripting or programming – not that I am any good at it, though). Johnny Rosenberg I think what happens is someone thinks something would be a nice feature. They ask a focus group (or survey)
Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
2013/6/8 Jean-Francois Nifenecker jean-francois.nifenec...@laposte.net: Hi, jumping in the bandwaggon.. Le 08/06/2013 18:33, Jay Lozier a écrit : I think there is a basic agreement that at least 25% of the features in MSO could be eliminated and no one would notice. I would not be surprised if LO and AOO could eliminate about 20% of the features without anyone noticing. I am suggesting any features be eliminated just that all office suites could probably go on a feature diet and actually improve their products. Just that some need a more rigorous diet than others. An idea I've been having for 20+ years now is: how about an office automation tool (wordprocessor, spreadsheet, whatever) that would come with the bare minimal features (define: bare minimal) and could be enhanced by adding features through a plugin system à la LibreOffice extensions? This way, anyone could tailor the software to their exact needs and the tools devs would focus on dedicated areas to add features. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux I can see a few problems with that, but I still agree it could be a good idea. I'm also not sure how easy it would be for the developers to achieve this. It should be easy to find and install the plug-ins without leaving the program, I think. Johnny Rosenberg -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
On 6/8/13 8:59 AM, Jean-Francois Nifenecker wrote: An idea I've been having for 20+ years now is: how about an office automation tool (wordprocessor, spreadsheet, whatever) that would come with the bare minimal features (define: bare minimal) and could be enhanced by adding features through a plugin system à la LibreOffice extensions? This way, anyone could tailor the software to their exact needs and the tools devs would focus on dedicated areas to add features. seems to me this is what Borland tried to do with Sprint. for most purposes I would probably be satisfied with wordstar - much bloat is attached to go going from simple word processing to what passed for desktop publishing 20 years ago -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
On Sat, 08 Jun 2013 12:59:13 -0400, Jean-Francois Nifenecker jean-francois.nifenec...@laposte.net wrote: Hi, jumping in the bandwaggon.. Le 08/06/2013 18:33, Jay Lozier a écrit : I think there is a basic agreement that at least 25% of the features in MSO could be eliminated and no one would notice. I would not be surprised if LO and AOO could eliminate about 20% of the features without anyone noticing. I am suggesting any features be eliminated just that all office suites could probably go on a feature diet and actually improve their products. Just that some need a more rigorous diet than others. An idea I've been having for 20+ years now is: how about an office automation tool (wordprocessor, spreadsheet, whatever) that would come with the bare minimal features (define: bare minimal) and could be enhanced by adding features through a plugin system à la LibreOffice extensions? This way, anyone could tailor the software to their exact needs and the tools devs would focus on dedicated areas to add features. I like the concept that are core features combined with extensions/plugins to add little used features. Also, extensions/plugins would allow the dev team to focus on the core code and not run done every minor feature that is wanted. And the extenstions/plugins could be developed and maintained by others who are not part of the dev team. This requires determining what are truly core features and have a robust API/SDK to make extension development more robust. -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
Hi :) Isn't it called Abiword? Regards from Tom :) From: Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com To: users.global.libreoffice.org users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Saturday, 8 June 2013, 18:14 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO On Sat, 08 Jun 2013 12:59:13 -0400, Jean-Francois Nifenecker jean-francois.nifenec...@laposte.net wrote: Hi, jumping in the bandwaggon.. Le 08/06/2013 18:33, Jay Lozier a écrit : I think there is a basic agreement that at least 25% of the features in MSO could be eliminated and no one would notice. I would not be surprised if LO and AOO could eliminate about 20% of the features without anyone noticing. I am suggesting any features be eliminated just that all office suites could probably go on a feature diet and actually improve their products. Just that some need a more rigorous diet than others. An idea I've been having for 20+ years now is: how about an office automation tool (wordprocessor, spreadsheet, whatever) that would come with the bare minimal features (define: bare minimal) and could be enhanced by adding features through a plugin system à la LibreOffice extensions? This way, anyone could tailor the software to their exact needs and the tools devs would focus on dedicated areas to add features. I like the concept that are core features combined with extensions/plugins to add little used features. Also, extensions/plugins would allow the dev team to focus on the core code and not run done every minor feature that is wanted. And the extenstions/plugins could be developed and maintained by others who are not part of the dev team. This requires determining what are truly core features and have a robust API/SDK to make extension development more robust. -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: printers compatible with GnuLinux
On Sat, 8 Jun 2013, Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote: On 06/07/2013 03:48 PM, Luuk wrote: On 07-06-2013 21:30, Stefan Gruber wrote: Tom Davies schrieb am Freitag, 7. Juni 2013 12:33: Does anyone know of companies that do product-lines that are easily compatible with GnuLinux? Look at Kyocera TASKalfa Series... fifteen years ago, Kyocera was crap. I sure hope they improved their stuff since that time. I think I have seen this brand here in the Northeast USA. it is one of the main printers I use at work. it's in the basement and I'm networked to it but mostly I use it directly to copy stuff or scan stuff in pdf onto a flashdrive; one can also send scanned stuff to a 'mailbox' which can be accessed via a browser; you can set this 'public' or 'private'. the few occasions I 'send' jobs to it it's via CUPS. I do this so infrequently I'm not even sure it works but I imagine it does. it works fine with another networked printer I use daily at work (an HP laser device, b/w, two trays, duplex). F. HP is one of the major brands for the big office printer, copier, fax, collating, stapling and multi-tray office machine. There are others, but so far it seems that the driver for Ubuntu with HP CUPS has the most printer tray and paper/envelope sizes/styles of all of the other brands of printers I have tried on my system. I really think the key will be which brand and model of big office printer has the best driver, with the most options, for Linux. That is in the subject line after all. I have had [and have] some nice printers that currently have no proper Linux driver[s]. My HP 7000 wide format will print letter size [8.5 by 11 inches] but will not print the 11 by 17 inch paper, for which I bought it. I have to use my Win7 boot of my dual booting laptop to use that printer. -- Felmon Davis Maintainer's Motto: If we can't fix it, it ain't broke. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
On 06/08/2013 11:32 AM, Jay Lozier wrote: On Sat, 08 Jun 2013 10:16:42 -0400, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) That point keeps coming up but it best said the other way around 80% of MSO almost never gets used. /snip/ How many people know how to mail-merge? Not as many as know how to use bold!! Regards from Tom :) What the heck is a mail merge? I use Thunderbird, i wouldn't have any idea how to do any kind of mail in a word processor. And I don't know why I'd ever want to.--doug -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
On Sat, 08 Jun 2013 14:16:31 -0400, Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net wrote: On 06/08/2013 11:32 AM, Jay Lozier wrote: On Sat, 08 Jun 2013 10:16:42 -0400, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) That point keeps coming up but it best said the other way around 80% of MSO almost never gets used. /snip/ How many people know how to mail-merge? Not as many as know how to use bold!! Regards from Tom :) What the heck is a mail merge? I use Thunderbird, i wouldn't have any idea how to do any kind of mail in a word processor. And I don't know why I'd ever want to.--doug Mail-merge is using a Write document as template and inserting data into various fields in the template from a spreadsheet, table, or database. The final set of documents can be mailed or more rarely emailed to the recipients. -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
On Sat, 8 Jun 2013, Doug wrote: On 06/08/2013 11:32 AM, Jay Lozier wrote: On Sat, 08 Jun 2013 10:16:42 -0400, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) That point keeps coming up but it best said the other way around 80% of MSO almost never gets used. /snip/ How many people know how to mail-merge? Not as many as know how to use bold!! Regards from Tom :) What the heck is a mail merge? I use Thunderbird, i wouldn't have any idea how to do any kind of mail in a word processor. And I don't know why I'd ever want to.--doug not knowing what it is, it's understandable why you'd not know why you'd want to. g you want to send mail (usually printed stuff) to 1000 individuals but personalized so each letter has the individual's name, address, perhaps a personal greeting like good morning, doug! you can modify each letter by hand a thousand times or use mail merge. I would love to do it, also for emails, but for my purposes I probably need to set up a database instead. F. -- Felmon Davis Never make anything simple and efficient when a way can be found to make it complex and wonderful. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
Le 08/06/2013 20:16, Doug a écrit : What the heck is a mail merge? I use Thunderbird, i wouldn't have any idea how to do any kind of mail in a word processor. And I don't know why I'd ever want to. Say you want to send an invitation by mail to your 10.000 friends. You simply write the letter once with holes within. Then you merge (hence the name) the letter and the missing data which is stored in a seperate database (LibO uses the datasource term). As a result you get 10.000 different letters, from just one. Of course, a private person might not use that feature frequently, but any company which wants to advertise does this very often. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] GIMP - was: CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote: On 06/07/2013 03:50 PM, Girvin R. Herr wrote: Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote: snip I need to relearn the interface for Paint Shop Pro X5, when I used version 5 since the XP days. But since I can not get v5 to install on Win7 Home Premium that my laptop has, I had to upgrade it and relearn the new interface. Same with PSP 5 or X5 vs. GIMP. The time it takes to relearn how to do the things that comes very easily to me with the old interface, well it is very frustrating to say the least and has taken 2 to 5 times longer to do the things I want/need to do. Ahh! The Gimp. Great program and I do have some use for it. However, learning it has a _steep_ learning curve for me and, frankly, sitting at the screen and reading the online manual is not what I would prefer using my limited time for. There are several learning books out there, but which one is the best one I need to learn The Gimp? That is my problem with it. Once or twice I fiddled with it and got it to do somewhat what I wanted, but it wasn't very intuitive and I feel it could do so much more for me. If I could just get a good book on it and sit down and play with it... Girvin Herr snip Yes GIMP has a steep learning curve. As for learning curves, ever try to use Photoshop? No. Now that has a steep learning curve if you have not dealt with such a package before. PSP5 was so easy to use and learn, plus it had everything I wanted or needed for my work. Also GIMP does not have all of the filters that I had with Paint Shop Pro 5 [or the new X5]. If there was an easier and/or better graphics program that I could use with Ubuntu 12.05, then I would give it a try. Sometimes the books I have seen in the stores, or online, seem to be written by and for the graphic artist, and not those of us who need it for the more simple things, like repairing old photos or dealing with simple pixel-based graphics. Right on! That's all I need it for. A while back I tried to add arrow lines to a photo as an experiment to document where components were on a project. I couldn't get The Gimp to do it, though I was sure it could. In The Gimp, I could add the lines, but since it was not a vector (two end points), I could not move those lines if I needed to squeeze in another line beside it, unless I erased each and every pixel. I ended up using LO Draw, which is a vector drawing program, not a bitmap drawing program like The Gimp! It did a fine job and I was even able to add an underlying, slightly wider white line to enhance the readability of the black line over dark photo imagery. How many Gimp books must I buy and dispose of before I get one that is basic enough for me (i.e. Gimp for Dummies?) for all [most] vector-based graphics, I use Inkscape. I have not really sat down and learned Draw for these things, yet. I am so use to Corel Draw 11, Inkscape is similar enough to use, is I am using Ubuntu. I have Corel Draw 11 on a Win7 laptop. I am very familiar with LO Draw. I use it a lot to draw diagrams in technical manuals. Draw does have some quirks, but it is fairly easy to use and productive. I am still learning things about it, such as freezing areas by putting them on a separate layer and making it unchangeable (unselectable?). That is required to allow inner objects to be selected without selecting a larger outer object. I generally use it as an embedded object in a Writer document, which has even more quirks. For some reason, the embedded Draw is a subset of the stand-alone Draw. For instance, zoom is not supported in the embedded version, so it gets difficult sometimes to work on a small object or grid. I have also found some quirks about scaling and adjusting locations in the embedded version. It can get really squirrelly sometimes. For example, if I try to enlarge the drawing in the embedded Draw by dragging the tags, nothing will happen. Then all of a sudden, the drawing will greatly enlarge, clipping the edges, and I cannot get it back to full extents again. As I said, squirrelly. I discovered the adjustments in the object frame properties to be helpful there. I just wish I really had the time to sit down and play with the packages, GIMP, Draw, and others, with a good book of instructions to help walk me through the processes. Ahh! There's the rub. I have the same problem. I usually start reading up on something to address a need, get distracted by something of higher priority, and then never get back to the book. Sometimes the original need goes away and it isn't so bad. Other times, I just don't get back to the problem. For example, I started reading up on Java a few months ago in order to learn enough about it to fix some non-fatal bugs in a database Report Generator (RG) I am using instead of the LO Base Oracle Report Builder (ORB), which I find too buggy to use. I got into chapter 2, got torn away from it
Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
2013/6/8 Jean-Francois Nifenecker jean-francois.nifenec...@laposte.net: Le 08/06/2013 20:16, Doug a écrit : What the heck is a mail merge? I use Thunderbird, i wouldn't have any idea how to do any kind of mail in a word processor. And I don't know why I'd ever want to. Say you want to send an invitation by mail to your 10.000 friends. You simply write the letter once with holes within. Then you merge (hence the name) the letter and the missing data which is stored in a seperate database (LibO uses the datasource term). As a result you get 10.000 different letters, from just one. Of course, a private person might not use that feature frequently, but any company which wants to advertise does this very often. Especially if we talk about 10 000 friends. I don't even know ig I met 10 000 people all together in my whole life yet… I think I have like 10 friends… Johnny Rosenberg -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
On 06/08/2013 02:44 PM, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: 2013/6/8 Jean-Francois Nifenecker jean-francois.nifenec...@laposte.net: Le 08/06/2013 20:16, Doug a écrit : What the heck is a mail merge? I use Thunderbird, i wouldn't have any idea how to do any kind of mail in a word processor. And I don't know why I'd ever want to. Say you want to send an invitation by mail to your 10.000 friends. You simply write the letter once with holes within. Then you merge (hence the name) the letter and the missing data which is stored in a seperate database (LibO uses the datasource term). As a result you get 10.000 different letters, from just one. Of course, a private person might not use that feature frequently, but any company which wants to advertise does this very often. Especially if we talk about 10 000 friends. I don't even know ig I met 10 000 people all together in my whole life yet… I think I have like 10 friends… Johnny Rosenberg Thanx everybody. Now I know what mailmerge is. I don't think I would ever need it. If I send mail to more than 5 people at once it would be a lot. --doug -- Blessed are the peacemakers..for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A.M.Greeley -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
On 08/06/2013 at 18:59, Jean-Francois Nifenecker jean- francois.nifenec...@laposte.net wrote: An idea I've been having for 20+ years now is: how about an office automation tool (wordprocessor, spreadsheet, whatever) that would come with the bare minimal features (define: bare minimal) and could be enhanced by adding features through a plugin system à la LibreOffice extensions? I believe they are called TeX (for word processing) and R (for calculations[1]). But there is a reason they never get substantial mainstream market share. Most users simply do not care if software is bloated and slow as long as it gets work done. Only professionals are ever interested in investing time into adjustments that will benefit them in longer run. [1] Yes, I know that calling R program for calculations is radical oversimplification. -- Best regards Mirosław Zalewski -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] GIMP - was: CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
Hi :) There are a lot of very simple drawing programs on GnuLinux; gpaint (a bit like Paint in Windows accessories), gnome-paint, apparently mtpaint is as bit less simple and good for photos but still very basic. Draw is excellent, especially for what you were using it for. The arrows problem could have been solved in gimp by creating a 2nd layer and then put the arrow in there. Then keep an original in xcf format and save as png, or gif (or even jpg if you must) for sharing. However, Draw was probably the best choice to keep it simple! Regards from Tom :) From: Girvin R. Herr girvin.h...@sbcglobal.net To: Kracked_P_P---webmaster webmas...@krackedpress.com Cc: LibreO - Users Global users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Saturday, 8 June 2013, 19:36 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] GIMP - was: CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote: On 06/07/2013 03:50 PM, Girvin R. Herr wrote: Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote: snip I need to relearn the interface for Paint Shop Pro X5, when I used version 5 since the XP days. But since I can not get v5 to install on Win7 Home Premium that my laptop has, I had to upgrade it and relearn the new interface. Same with PSP 5 or X5 vs. GIMP. The time it takes to relearn how to do the things that comes very easily to me with the old interface, well it is very frustrating to say the least and has taken 2 to 5 times longer to do the things I want/need to do. Ahh! The Gimp. Great program and I do have some use for it. However, learning it has a _steep_ learning curve for me and, frankly, sitting at the screen and reading the online manual is not what I would prefer using my limited time for. There are several learning books out there, but which one is the best one I need to learn The Gimp? That is my problem with it. Once or twice I fiddled with it and got it to do somewhat what I wanted, but it wasn't very intuitive and I feel it could do so much more for me. If I could just get a good book on it and sit down and play with it... Girvin Herr snip Yes GIMP has a steep learning curve. As for learning curves, ever try to use Photoshop? No. Now that has a steep learning curve if you have not dealt with such a package before. PSP5 was so easy to use and learn, plus it had everything I wanted or needed for my work. Also GIMP does not have all of the filters that I had with Paint Shop Pro 5 [or the new X5]. If there was an easier and/or better graphics program that I could use with Ubuntu 12.05, then I would give it a try. Sometimes the books I have seen in the stores, or online, seem to be written by and for the graphic artist, and not those of us who need it for the more simple things, like repairing old photos or dealing with simple pixel-based graphics. Right on! That's all I need it for. A while back I tried to add arrow lines to a photo as an experiment to document where components were on a project. I couldn't get The Gimp to do it, though I was sure it could. In The Gimp, I could add the lines, but since it was not a vector (two end points), I could not move those lines if I needed to squeeze in another line beside it, unless I erased each and every pixel. I ended up using LO Draw, which is a vector drawing program, not a bitmap drawing program like The Gimp! It did a fine job and I was even able to add an underlying, slightly wider white line to enhance the readability of the black line over dark photo imagery. How many Gimp books must I buy and dispose of before I get one that is basic enough for me (i.e. Gimp for Dummies?) for all [most] vector-based graphics, I use Inkscape. I have not really sat down and learned Draw for these things, yet. I am so use to Corel Draw 11, Inkscape is similar enough to use, is I am using Ubuntu. I have Corel Draw 11 on a Win7 laptop. I am very familiar with LO Draw. I use it a lot to draw diagrams in technical manuals. Draw does have some quirks, but it is fairly easy to use and productive. I am still learning things about it, such as freezing areas by putting them on a separate layer and making it unchangeable (unselectable?). That is required to allow inner objects to be selected without selecting a larger outer object. I generally use it as an embedded object in a Writer document, which has even more quirks. For some reason, the embedded Draw is a subset of the stand-alone Draw. For instance, zoom is not supported in the embedded version, so it gets difficult sometimes to work on a small object or grid. I have also found some quirks about scaling and adjusting locations in the embedded version. It can get really squirrelly sometimes. For example, if I try to enlarge the drawing in the embedded Draw by dragging the tags, nothing will happen. Then all of a sudden, the drawing will greatly enlarge, clipping
Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
On 8 June 2013 07:44, Virgil Arrington cuyfa...@hotmail.com wrote: As I think about software evolution, there was little consistency back in the DOS days. For example, Wordstar had its Ctrl-key combinations that were hard to learn but, once learned, made touch typists *very* proficient. WordPerfect preferred the Function key commands. Yes, but people who used WordPerfect extensively (as I did in the early 1990s) knew all 48 functions (plain function, Shift+function, Alt+function, Ctrl+function) and were, indeed, very proficient. Even though I only typed about 90 wpm, I could crank out stuff as quickly as much faster typists. Because I knew the function keys, I did not use WordPerfect's menu card which was designed to sit on the top of the keyboard over the function keys — but when I was away from my desk people would use my PC for printing because I had a faster and nicer printer and would bring their menu card so they could print and whatever else they needed to do and frequently leave it behind. I'd return to my desk, find the menu card and toss it in the overhead bin — had quite a collection of those things! One of the Windows selling points was that all of the programs could have a consistent UI. All programs followed the same basic menu structure (File, Edit, Format, Tools, etc.). While each program had its own quirks (page layout under File?), the general consistency of menus made programs relatively easy to figure out. I always wondered why MS Word had the Page Format under the File command instead of under the Format command, but got used to it. Until the ribbon, I typically used the Alt key plus keystrokes as I do in LO. It just doesn't make sense to me to move from the keyboard to a mouse whilst typing text. I've become accustomed to the ribbon (I teach MS Word classes), and the Alt key plus keystrokes is still there, but it seems much harder to use. However, I must have (in both LO and MSO) my keyboard shortcuts and create keyboard shortcuts for things I frequently use. The more I can keep my fingers over the keyboard, the better. More often-used commands could be attached to icons streamlining the process. Or to keyboard shortcuts. But, the icon toolbars, while quick and easy, were never intended to *replace* the menu structure, just supplement it. I don't look at it that way. What I stress in all my classes is that there are multiple ways to do things and none of them are more correct than the others. I recommend users find a way with which they are most comfortable and stick with it. I may think it a waste of time to move my hand to the mouse, move it until my eye picks up the pointer on the screen, move it to the bold format icon and click on it and then return to the keyboard (and repeat to turn it bold formatting off), but that doesn't make it more right. Just as different people have different ways of learning, I think different people have different degrees of comfort with the various ways to execute commands. Toolbars are, by their nature, very much subject to user preferences. When installing LO, I immediately customize the toolbars to eliminate icons I never use. I would encourage everyone to do this. Working with the default arrangement rarely makes sense. It should be viewed as a starting point. -- T. R. Valentine Your friends will argue with you. Your enemies don't care. 'When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes.' -- Erasmus -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
On 2013-06-08 12:10, Virgil Arrington wrote: This has been fascinating reading all of the opinions about user interfaces and the dreaded ribbon. I've not found *anyone* who actually likes the ribbon. I agree with several of you who have observed that the ribbon makes using styles much harder. And, since it's harder to use styles, it only makes it that much harder for me to teach styles to my students and effectively persuade them to use styles. It makes me wonder if MS did any type of focus group testing before foisting it upon us. And, if they did do such testing, who did they get in the focus groups? Like many of you, I have used computers for many, many years. (I go back to the PC-Write for DOS days), and I can honestly say that, over the decades, I have found very few UI changes that have actually made a difference in helping me be more productive. I've been playing recently with WriteMonkey, a markdown text editor, and I must confess, I like the UI with absolutely no toolbars or ribbons; just keystroke combinations and some basic menus. Works for me. Virgil It's like the introduction of the mouse with the keyboard number pad. Taking your hand off the mouse to enter numbers is a waste of time so you have to learn to be left moused to keep productivity up. Steve -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
On 2013-06-08 10:10, Ken Springer wrote: On 6/7/13 3:41 AM, Tom Davies wrote: snip I too wouldn't touch Kingsoft with a barge pole. I want to steer towards using formats that will be around and usable in a few years time. I want to be able to open documents maybe 10-20 years from now without having to struggle against malware and without having to try to find long-dead versions of long dead software produced by a company that may not even exist by then. You just hope the formats will be around 10-20 years from now. There's no guaranteed the current ODT format will even be viable then. Similar to the way desktop design interfaces are basically horrible on cell phones and tablets (IMO), all of it can change almost overnight with hardware changes. And LO are doing it now. LO4 already drops previous file compatibility, if AOO maintains that compatibility I will be looking hard at it. Steve -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: CNET is claiming the best free MSO alternative is not LO
On 08/06/2013 at 00:10, Ken Springer snowsh...@q.com wrote: I've not used Word regularly since 2003, so I can't say whether the menu interface that appears when you hide the ribbon is as functional as its predecessors. There is no menu interface. You simply hide content of ribbons, leaving tabs at top of window. When you click on tab, it's content in ribbon-form will appear. If you want old menu in MS Office post-2007, you must buy some third party extension. While it might be good idea to give users choice about interface they like, MS is definitely not giving it their users (but MS never promised to be about choice, so it's hardly an accusation). -- Best regards Mirosław Zalewski -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Which download for Arch/Manjaro linux?
Hi! I was curious as I'm currently in the process of migrating my distribution to manjaro Linux which is the best download for it? I'm having some confusion as Manajro is a Arch derivative that is neither RPM or DEB based, for those that don't know Arch has the AUR (Arch user repository) which is essentially one massive storehouse for all the packages available for GNU/linux at this time. It works on the same principle as Ubuntu's PPA system except instead of there being multiple depositary's there is just one. Arch uses a rolling release model so it is at the cutting edge of all software / kernel changes, However the same can not be said for their LO packages. -- Anthony Easthope antiso...@myopera.com -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
