Re: [libreoffice-users] MySQL native connector for LibreOffice 4.2 and 4.3 (Linux versions)
I tried to install the 64-bit and 32-bit versions but get the message The extension 'MySQL Connector' does not work on this computer. I have a 64-bit Terra laptop, with Opensuse 13.1 and LibreOffice Version: 4.1.6.2 Build ID: 410m0(Build:2) Greetings Harvey On Wed, 2014-10-01 at 19:57 -0400, Dan Lewis wrote: I have built one of these for 32 and 64 bit. I am looking for someone who has MariaDB installed on a Linux operating system to test whether this connector will work with MariaDB or not. (Each connector contains the needed MariaDB library files, so they should work.) From the things I have done with MySQL on my 32 and 64 bit computers, it works well. This is the 32 bit version of the connector: If you install in the Extension Manager, it will appear to be version 1.02, but it is really 1.04_3 http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4124313/mysql-connector-ooo_1.oxt This is the 64 bit version of the connector: (The Extension Manager reports this version as 1.04_3 as it should.) http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4124313/mysql-connector-ooo_1.oxt -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Le 01.10.2014 22:21, Tanstaafl a écrit : On 10/1/2014 12:54 PM, Florian Reisinger flo...@libreoffice.org wrote: 9 bugs for 30k €. That is a fair price... Continuing reading the thread now... PS: If a volunteer does not tackle your pet bug, you should get someone to fix it (search for libreoffice L3 support for other service provider... Let's see... Pay you extortion in the amount of $4,200 (assuming I can get just one bug fixed for 1/9th the quoted price, which I suspect is unlikely) to fix a *regression* caused by someone arbitrarily deciding to *replace* (as opposed to providing the new feature, but allow users to fall back to the old functionality) a feature that has been working fine for 10? years with a 'new improved' version (not knocking the feature itself, just that it doesn't work properly in that it lacks a very fundamental and necessary capability), or... What you call extortion is a price of a service. I suspect your employer does sell products or services too, and that you are yourself paid to accomplish something, aren't you? The real extortion here is someone who expects people to work for his own needs for free. As for regressions, they are indeed arbitrary. They are obviously not intended, and software development *works that way*. Don't belive me, just go ahead, buy MS Office licenses, and wait for the next bug to happen. Then you can come back here and tell us about bugs and regression. Note that the patch already exists, but that you were not proactive in even calling attention on the issue. This seems to suggest that the situation your company is on with respect to your LibreOffice deployment is not really problematic. If you are not ready to pay anything to have someone fix your problem, and don't even show up to call for an integration of the patch as soon as possible, then it looks like your problem is not really urgent, even in regard to your corporate requirements. Stick with 4.1.6 (that actually works). It works really well, with an important vulnerability left unpatched. That seems to be not important to you either: http://www.libreoffice.org/about-us/security/advisories/ I guess everyone has his or her own priorities, but if anything happens because of that, you will have been warned. Best, Charles. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Base Form and JRE
Hi :) Errr, on a side-issue ... Are you using an external back-end? If so which one, MySql/MariaDb, Postgresql or something else? If you don't know then you are probably using the internal back-end. If you are using the internal back-end then it's a good idea to find out how to migrate your Tables to an external back-end. The internal ones tend to suffer from odd problems. Until you do manage to figure out how to migrate please ensure you keep creating a back-up copy of the database reasonably frequently, such as once per day or per week or something sensible to avoid potential loss of tooo much data. Thanks and regards from Tom :) On 2 October 2014 11:08, Dave Barton d...@tasit.net wrote: Rafnews wrote: Hi, i want to use Base database for first time and i got the following error: no java installation was found, while i'm trying to create a form. http://prntscr.com/4sb7mc However i have JRE installed as v1.8.x as you can see on the screenshot http://prntscr.com/4sb79j so where is the problem ? is LibreOffice not compatible with JRE 1.8 ? thx. A. You have the 64bit JRE installed. LO for Windows is a 32bit program, so you need to add the 32bit JRE to your system. Dave -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] MySQL native connector for LibreOffice 4.2 and 4.3 (Linux versions)
On 10/02/2014 03:13 AM, Harvey Nimmo wrote: I tried to install the 64-bit and 32-bit versions but get the message The extension 'MySQL Connector' does not work on this computer. I have a 64-bit Terra laptop, with Opensuse 13.1 and LibreOffice Version: 4.1.6.2 Build ID: 410m0(Build:2) Greetings Harvey On Wed, 2014-10-01 at 19:57 -0400, Dan Lewis wrote: I have built one of these for 32 and 64 bit. I am looking for someone who has MariaDB installed on a Linux operating system to test whether this connector will work with MariaDB or not. (Each connector contains the needed MariaDB library files, so they should work.) From the things I have done with MySQL on my 32 and 64 bit computers, it works well. This is the 32 bit version of the connector: If you install in the Extension Manager, it will appear to be version 1.02, but it is really 1.04_3 http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4124313/mysql-connector-ooo_1.oxt This is the 64 bit version of the connector: (The Extension Manager reports this version as 1.04_3 as it should.) http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4124313/mysql-connector-ooo_1.oxt These extensions only work with libreoffice 4.2 and 4.3. They do not work with 4.1. Sorry if I did not mention this before. (I had written this in my email to the Quality Assurance mailing list. The links above are not the correct ones. They should have been nabble_a href=mysql-connector-x86_64.oxtmysql-connector-x86.oxt/nabble_a for the 32 bit connector nabble_a href=mysql-connector-x86_64.oxtmysql-connector-x86_64.oxt/nabble_a for the 64 bit connector Dan -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Hi :) This blame the user mentality belongs more properly in the MS and proprietary world. It makes more sense in the OpenSource world but generally i don't see it in other OpenSource projects (apart from Evolution) and i'm quite glad of that. It's one of the many reasons i'm glad to be mostly freed from the MS world. Tanstaafl seems to be being blamed for at leat 2 contradictory things here. 1. for bringing up his pet bug too often 2. for not bringing it up often enough. Hmm, tricky. I thought bug-reports announced to all subscribed to that bug-report when a patch was released and again when the patch got into a main-branch. Regards from Tom :) On 2 October 2014 09:34, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Le 01.10.2014 22:21, Tanstaafl a écrit : On 10/1/2014 12:54 PM, Florian Reisinger flo...@libreoffice.org wrote: 9 bugs for 30k €. That is a fair price... Continuing reading the thread now... PS: If a volunteer does not tackle your pet bug, you should get someone to fix it (search for libreoffice L3 support for other service provider... Let's see... Pay you extortion in the amount of $4,200 (assuming I can get just one bug fixed for 1/9th the quoted price, which I suspect is unlikely) to fix a *regression* caused by someone arbitrarily deciding to *replace* (as opposed to providing the new feature, but allow users to fall back to the old functionality) a feature that has been working fine for 10? years with a 'new improved' version (not knocking the feature itself, just that it doesn't work properly in that it lacks a very fundamental and necessary capability), or... What you call extortion is a price of a service. I suspect your employer does sell products or services too, and that you are yourself paid to accomplish something, aren't you? The real extortion here is someone who expects people to work for his own needs for free. As for regressions, they are indeed arbitrary. They are obviously not intended, and software development *works that way*. Don't belive me, just go ahead, buy MS Office licenses, and wait for the next bug to happen. Then you can come back here and tell us about bugs and regression. Note that the patch already exists, but that you were not proactive in even calling attention on the issue. This seems to suggest that the situation your company is on with respect to your LibreOffice deployment is not really problematic. If you are not ready to pay anything to have someone fix your problem, and don't even show up to call for an integration of the patch as soon as possible, then it looks like your problem is not really urgent, even in regard to your corporate requirements. Stick with 4.1.6 (that actually works). It works really well, with an important vulnerability left unpatched. That seems to be not important to you either: http://www.libreoffice.org/ about-us/security/advisories/ I guess everyone has his or her own priorities, but if anything happens because of that, you will have been warned. Best, Charles. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] MySQL native connector for LibreOffice 4.2 and 4.3 (Linux versions)
Hi :) Aaargh, Nabble seems to be playing up and won't let me click on that new link that Dan gave. Nabble hasn't gone wrong before afaik so it was a bit unexpected. Hopefully Dan might fix the problem when time-zones allow. Apols and regards from Tom :) On 2 October 2014 08:13, Harvey Nimmo har...@nimmo.de wrote: I tried to install the 64-bit and 32-bit versions but get the message The extension 'MySQL Connector' does not work on this computer. I have a 64-bit Terra laptop, with Opensuse 13.1 and LibreOffice Version: 4.1.6.2 Build ID: 410m0(Build:2) Greetings Harvey On Wed, 2014-10-01 at 19:57 -0400, Dan Lewis wrote: I have built one of these for 32 and 64 bit. I am looking for someone who has MariaDB installed on a Linux operating system to test whether this connector will work with MariaDB or not. (Each connector contains the needed MariaDB library files, so they should work.) From the things I have done with MySQL on my 32 and 64 bit computers, it works well. This is the 32 bit version of the connector: If you install in the Extension Manager, it will appear to be version 1.02, but it is really 1.04_3 http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4124313/mysql-connector-ooo_1.oxt This is the 64 bit version of the connector: (The Extension Manager reports this version as 1.04_3 as it should.) http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4124313/mysql-connector-ooo_1.oxt -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Hi Tom, Le 02/10/2014 12:52, Tom Davies a écrit : Hi :) This blame the user mentality belongs more properly in the MS and proprietary world. It makes more sense in the OpenSource world but generally i don't see it in other OpenSource projects (apart from Evolution) and i'm quite glad of that. It's one of the many reasons i'm glad to be mostly freed from the MS world. When users rant against volunteers, that won't work whatever the community... Tanstaafl seems to be being blamed for at leat 2 contradictory things here. 1. for bringing up his pet bug too often 2. for not bringing it up often enough. He is not blamed for bringing his pet bug, but for not being proactive on it and for waiting that a volunteer take care of it without helping in any way to have it solved. When you use LibreOffice in a corporate environment, you have to take care of the investment made by your company and take care also to protect the software used there. Being in a waiting attitude without helping things to happen put you at the risk to lose your investment or lose your software by not sustaining the ecosystem. Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] MySQL native connector for LibreOffice 4.2 and 4.3 (Linux versions)
aha...so what do I learn from this? = I should read the title of the thread and check my own installation before taking action and/or replying. Sorry for that! Cheers Harvey On Thu, 2014-10-02 at 07:09 -0400, Dan Lewis wrote: On 10/02/2014 03:13 AM, Harvey Nimmo wrote: I tried to install the 64-bit and 32-bit versions but get the message The extension 'MySQL Connector' does not work on this computer. I have a 64-bit Terra laptop, with Opensuse 13.1 and LibreOffice Version: 4.1.6.2 Build ID: 410m0(Build:2) Greetings Harvey On Wed, 2014-10-01 at 19:57 -0400, Dan Lewis wrote: I have built one of these for 32 and 64 bit. I am looking for someone who has MariaDB installed on a Linux operating system to test whether this connector will work with MariaDB or not. (Each connector contains the needed MariaDB library files, so they should work.) From the things I have done with MySQL on my 32 and 64 bit computers, it works well. This is the 32 bit version of the connector: If you install in the Extension Manager, it will appear to be version 1.02, but it is really 1.04_3 http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4124313/mysql-connector-ooo_1.oxt This is the 64 bit version of the connector: (The Extension Manager reports this version as 1.04_3 as it should.) http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4124313/mysql-connector-ooo_1.oxt These extensions only work with libreoffice 4.2 and 4.3. They do not work with 4.1. Sorry if I did not mention this before. (I had written this in my email to the Quality Assurance mailing list. The links above are not the correct ones. They should have been nabble_a href=mysql-connector-x86_64.oxtmysql-connector-x86.oxt/nabble_a for the 32 bit connector nabble_a href=mysql-connector-x86_64.oxtmysql-connector-x86_64.oxt/nabble_a for the 64 bit connector Dan -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Fwd: Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Post Building MySQL connectors for 32 and 64 bit versions for LibreOffice 4.3 in Linux
Forwarded Message Subject: Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Post Building MySQL connectors for 32 and 64 bit versions for LibreOffice 4.3 in Linux Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 19:22:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Lewis elderdanle...@gmail.com To: libreoffice...@lists.freedesktop.org The mysql native connectors I uploaded earlier were both 32 bit. I apologize for that. The way Nabble names uploaded files were somewhat confusing to me, so I will try again. 32 bit mysql native connector: mysql-connector-x86.oxt http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4124504/mysql-connector-x86.oxt 64 bit mysql native connector: mysql-connector-x86_64.oxt http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4124504/mysql-connector-x86_64.oxt -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Libreoffice-qa-MySQL-native-connector-for-OS-X-tp4123190p4124504.html Sent from the QA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: libreoffice...@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Question about table icon
Le 02/10/2014 10:54, Sophie a écrit : Hi Sophie, Small question to new users, who is aware of the table icon behavior: Yes, and i really like this feature :-) -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On 10/1/2014 11:36 AM, jonathon toki.kant...@gmail.com wrote: On October 1, 2014 8:03:05 AM PDT, Tanstaafl wrote: Irrelevant. I cannot install 'Daily builds' on 60+ PCs. What you do is once a week install and test a daily build, verifying that issues that affect your organization have been fixed, or if not, what did not work correctly. The ideal is for you to construct a system to automtically download, install, run, and test the daily builds everyday, verifying what is fixed, determining what is still broken, and finding out what is newly broken. Good advice of course - but I was unable to do this for 3 months, because no one considered the bug important enough to work on after it was reported, so there were no builds to test. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Question about table icon
Le 02/10/2014 13:52, Alexander Thurgood a écrit : Le 02/10/2014 10:54, Sophie a écrit : Hi Sophie, Small question to new users, who is aware of the table icon behavior: Yes, and i really like this feature :-) hum, Alex, after more than 15 years I can't believe that you're a new user ;-) Cheers Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] MySQL native connector for LibreOffice 4.2 and 4.3 (Linux versions)
The current OpenSuse 13.1 distro version of LibreOffice is still 4.1. So I continue to use it for consistency with Opensuse 13.1. On Thu, 2014-10-02 at 12:58 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) On the other hand it gives you an opportunity to install the 4.3.(newest-one) in parallel with the version you use. Then you can check it to see if; 1. this connector works for you and 2. to see if whatever was keeping you on the 4.1.x has been fixed in the newest release. Chances are you'll not be as unlucky as Tasnstaafl as that's pretty rare. Regards from Tom :) On 2 October 2014 12:46, Harvey Nimmo har...@nimmo.de wrote: aha...so what do I learn from this? = I should read the title of the thread and check my own installation before taking action and/or replying. Sorry for that! Cheers Harvey On Thu, 2014-10-02 at 07:09 -0400, Dan Lewis wrote: On 10/02/2014 03:13 AM, Harvey Nimmo wrote: I tried to install the 64-bit and 32-bit versions but get the message The extension 'MySQL Connector' does not work on this computer. I have a 64-bit Terra laptop, with Opensuse 13.1 and LibreOffice Version: 4.1.6.2 Build ID: 410m0(Build:2) Greetings Harvey On Wed, 2014-10-01 at 19:57 -0400, Dan Lewis wrote: I have built one of these for 32 and 64 bit. I am looking for someone who has MariaDB installed on a Linux operating system to test whether this connector will work with MariaDB or not. (Each connector contains the needed MariaDB library files, so they should work.) From the things I have done with MySQL on my 32 and 64 bit computers, it works well. This is the 32 bit version of the connector: If you install in the Extension Manager, it will appear to be version 1.02, but it is really 1.04_3 http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4124313/mysql-connector-ooo_1.oxt This is the 64 bit version of the connector: (The Extension Manager reports this version as 1.04_3 as it should.) http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4124313/mysql-connector-ooo_1.oxt These extensions only work with libreoffice 4.2 and 4.3. They do not work with 4.1. Sorry if I did not mention this before. (I had written this in my email to the Quality Assurance mailing list. The links above are not the correct ones. They should have been nabble_a href=mysql-connector-x86_64.oxtmysql-connector-x86.oxt/nabble_a for the 32 bit connector nabble_a href=mysql-connector-x86_64.oxtmysql-connector-x86_64.oxt/nabble_a for the 64 bit connector Dan -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users +unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On 10/1/2014 9:33 PM, jonathon toki.kant...@gmail.com wrote: What I describe is what any sysadmin worth their salt wold do, with _all_ of the FLOSS an, where an when available, non-FLOSS, that is deployed throughout the organization they work for. Oh, I do, but I'm a one man shop, my time is limited, and it is impossible to test every feature - obviously, even the devs who actually knew about this impending new feature and were working on its implementation (it was a total surprise to me, and I've been on the users list since forever and never saw it mentioned) didn't even discover it - which suggests to me that they really didn't do much testing at all (copy/paste into fields is kind of *basic* use of fields). That said, the fact is, this is the first Open/Libreoffice *regression*/bug that I can remember that has caused this serious of a problem for so long, with so little consideration by the devs. But... there is simply no, ZERO, reason to have not provided the ability to fall back to the old behavior when this very new, very different (to the old way) feature was implemented, especially considering that the old behavior is obviously still there, since you can still invoke it with CTRL-SHIFT-F9. It is even more inexplicable that the devs didn't *immediately* re-introduce the old behavior at the very least as an *option*, once this bug was detected. The other long standing bug (inability to print to Tabloid paper) is admittedly not a regression, so not relevant to this thread (shouldn't have brought it up)... -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On 10/2/2014 1:22 AM, Florian Reisinger flo...@libreoffice.org wrote: I am sorry if the following sounds a bit sharp: do not rant. That won't help! If you want to have this bug fixes, pay for the fix. (Or test if works on master I guess this bug should be fixed relatively quick. I am not sorry if the following sounds harsh, but... Suggesting that users should have to pay large sums of money to fix major REGRESSIVE bugs is tantamount to EXTORTION. Suggesting this as a way to implement new/wanted FEATURES/ENHANCEMENTS, on the other hand, is a totally valid and acceptable offer. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] MySQL native connector for LibreOffice 4.2 and 4.3 (Linux versions)
Hi :) On the other hand it gives you an opportunity to install the 4.3.(newest-one) in parallel with the version you use. Then you can check it to see if; 1. this connector works for you and 2. to see if whatever was keeping you on the 4.1.x has been fixed in the newest release. Chances are you'll not be as unlucky as Tasnstaafl as that's pretty rare. Regards from Tom :) On 2 October 2014 12:46, Harvey Nimmo har...@nimmo.de wrote: aha...so what do I learn from this? = I should read the title of the thread and check my own installation before taking action and/or replying. Sorry for that! Cheers Harvey On Thu, 2014-10-02 at 07:09 -0400, Dan Lewis wrote: On 10/02/2014 03:13 AM, Harvey Nimmo wrote: I tried to install the 64-bit and 32-bit versions but get the message The extension 'MySQL Connector' does not work on this computer. I have a 64-bit Terra laptop, with Opensuse 13.1 and LibreOffice Version: 4.1.6.2 Build ID: 410m0(Build:2) Greetings Harvey On Wed, 2014-10-01 at 19:57 -0400, Dan Lewis wrote: I have built one of these for 32 and 64 bit. I am looking for someone who has MariaDB installed on a Linux operating system to test whether this connector will work with MariaDB or not. (Each connector contains the needed MariaDB library files, so they should work.) From the things I have done with MySQL on my 32 and 64 bit computers, it works well. This is the 32 bit version of the connector: If you install in the Extension Manager, it will appear to be version 1.02, but it is really 1.04_3 http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4124313/mysql-connector-ooo_1.oxt This is the 64 bit version of the connector: (The Extension Manager reports this version as 1.04_3 as it should.) http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4124313/mysql-connector-ooo_1.oxt These extensions only work with libreoffice 4.2 and 4.3. They do not work with 4.1. Sorry if I did not mention this before. (I had written this in my email to the Quality Assurance mailing list. The links above are not the correct ones. They should have been nabble_a href=mysql-connector-x86_64.oxtmysql-connector-x86.oxt/nabble_a for the 32 bit connector nabble_a href=mysql-connector-x86_64.oxtmysql-connector-x86_64.oxt/nabble_a for the 64 bit connector Dan -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Fwd: Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Post Building MySQL connectors for 32 and 64 bit versions for LibreOffice 4.3 in Linux
Hi :) Ahh, nice work Dan!! Both links work this time :)) Thanks and regards from Tom :) On 2 October 2014 12:51, Dan Lewis elderdanle...@gmail.com wrote: Forwarded Message Subject:Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Post Building MySQL connectors for 32 and 64 bit versions for LibreOffice 4.3 in Linux Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 19:22:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Lewis elderdanle...@gmail.com To: libreoffice...@lists.freedesktop.org The mysql native connectors I uploaded earlier were both 32 bit. I apologize for that. The way Nabble names uploaded files were somewhat confusing to me, so I will try again. 32 bit mysql native connector: mysql-connector-x86.oxt http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4124504/mysql-connector-x86. oxt 64 bit mysql native connector: mysql-connector-x86_64.oxt http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4124504/mysql-connector-x86_ 64.oxt -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/ Libreoffice-qa-MySQL-native-connector-for-OS-X-tp4123190p4124504.html Sent from the QA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: libreoffice...@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/ mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Question about table icon
Hi :) I guess my answer boils down to No but i really like this feature! :)) Regards from Tom :) On 2 October 2014 12:52, Alexander Thurgood alex.thurg...@gmail.com wrote: Le 02/10/2014 10:54, Sophie a écrit : Hi Sophie, Small question to new users, who is aware of the table icon behavior: Yes, and i really like this feature :-) -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Question about table icon
Le 02/10/2014 14:18, Sophie a écrit : hum, Alex, after more than 15 years I can't believe that you're a new user ;-) Ah yes, you could be well be right there, ooops, mea culpa ;-) At least it got the ball rolling ^^ Cheers, Alex -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Hi Tom, On 10/2/2014 12:52, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) This blame the user mentality belongs more properly in the MS and proprietary world. I did not get the impression that the user is being blamed here by anyone. Different people are trying to explain again and again how OpenSource projects work, which is quit a bit different to commercial - which I am sure you know, probably even better then me. It makes more sense in the OpenSource world but generally i don't see it in other OpenSource projects (apart from Evolution) and i'm quite glad of that. It's one of the many reasons i'm glad to be mostly freed from the MS world. Tanstaafl seems to be being blamed for at leat 2 contradictory things here. 1. for bringing up his pet bug too often That is fine, but it just depends a bit on how it is being done - I don't think his way is the most efficient for everyone involved, including himself. 2. for not bringing it up often enough. His pet bug has a fix but he is refusing to test it. Werner -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On 10/2/2014 14:28, Tanstaafl wrote: ... Suggesting that users should have to pay large sums of money to fix major REGRESSIVE bugs is tantamount to EXTORTION. No one suggested that users should have to pay. But it might be interesting for a certain user to get a bug/feature/regression fixed ASAP and therefore having the option is in my view great. A regression should be dealt with, and in your case it has, just not fast enough for you - but that is live. If I where you I would just test the proposed fix in the daily build to make sure it is fixed the way you expect it to get fixed. Werner -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On 10/2/2014 4:34 AM, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: The real extortion here is someone who expects people to work for his own needs for free. I am *not* talking about enhancement/feature requests, I am talking about a major regression that should have never even made it into a release build (in other words, it should have been caught/fixed in rudimentary testing), Also, as I have said more than once - and even created an enhancement request for it - There is simply no - zero - reason to: 1. have not provided the ability to fall back to the old behavior when this very new, very different (to the old way) feature was implemented, *especially* considering that the old behavior is obviously still there (since you can still invoke it with CTRL-SHIFT-F9), or even more inexplicable, 2. *immediately* re-introduce the old behavior - at the very least as an *option* - once this bug was detected - until it could be properly addressed, as I requested (again, once I became aware of the issue) here: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=79877 Note that the patch already exists, but that you were not proactive in even calling attention on the issue. That is because, as I said: 1. There was basically no notice that such a major change was pending (I've been on the libreoffice users list since it was created, and the openoffice list for years prior to that), 2. As a one man shop, my time is limited, so my habits with respect to testing new Libreoffice builds were to wait until the next major version is at least at a .2 or .3 version, 3. It is impossible to test every single feature, as evidenced by the actual devs who implemented this new feature/change who failed to even TEST the very BASIC paste functionality (as evidenced by the fact that the bug exists). As soon as I encountered it (when the first user I had updated reported it to me), I discovered the already opened bug (then subsequently created the 'enhancement' request referenced above to re-enable, as an option, the old behavior). This seems to suggest that the situation your company is on with respect to your LibreOffice deployment is not really problematic. It is, but there is simply nothing we can do about it. If you are not ready to pay anything to have someone fix your problem, Whose problem? First, this is Libreoffice's problem. Second, I am not the decision maker for things like this for our company. I am simply an IT guy. If you must know, if this were my company, I would be supporting numerous open source projects financially, but again - it is not my decision, and so I have to work with what I have, and since I am not independently wealthy, I am unable to pay for things like this out of my own pocket. But that is all nothing to do with the fact that the responsibility for fixing REGRESSIONS should fall on the dev(s) that introduced them, and in fact this responsibility should be a part of any agreement they are subject to when formally accepted as dev contributors. Likewise, the responsibility for properly testing major new features is - or should be - again, first and foremost on the dev(s) dong the work, and only secondarily on the users. If you are seriously suggesting otherwise (and I don't think you are, so the following shouldn't apply to you), then you are nuts. and don't even show up to call for an integration of the patch as soon as possible, I called for it as soon as I became aware it was there. But, the point is, it should, again, be first on the dev(s) who introduce the regression to push the patch(es). Stick with 4.1.6 (that actually works). It works really well, with an important vulnerability left unpatched. That seems to be not important to you either: http://www.libreoffice.org/about-us/security/advisories/ It is, but again - we are in the position of being forced to choose between a rock and a hard place. I guess everyone has his or her own priorities, but if anything happens because of that, you will have been warned. Yeah, thanks for ... nothing... -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On 10/2/2014 8:50 AM, Werner werner...@gmx.ch wrote: His pet bug has a fix but he is refusing to test it. Please refrain from posting falsehoods (you don't have a clue what I am or have been doing). The point, again, is it is irrelevant if there is a TEST BUILD that is fixed. The point is we are and have been stuck on an old unsupported build precisely because of the dev(s) refusal to fix a major regression, when there is a perfectly acceptable workaround that could be implemented with very little code and risk (provide option to re-enable the old behavior) that has been completely ignored for months. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
@Charles, *, Please would you verify that Jan-Marek's patch to Allow pasting into input fields http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=3f26ab24e0bfd27645c97ff7915fba2db409930a (comment 13 on fdo#76565 https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=76565 ) fully resolves the UX regression introduced with changes to the In-line fields. Grab a build of master from http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/master/Win-x86@39/ and do an MSI administrative install with modification of the bootstrap.ini file to run it in parallel to your production build. See these instructions: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Installing_in_parallel Then post a note to the fdo#76565 issue if all is good in resolving the regression, and that a backport would be very helpful. Or, if UX issue remains--what still needs to be changed. Simply done, and moves the process along. Stuart -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/How-to-handle-regressions-tp4124391p4124615.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Hi Tom, On 10/2/2014 15:08, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Yeh, it's good to know when a bug patch is released. It's a bit complicated for most normal users to test it though so it's even better to know when the patch is in a main release. I thought bug-tracker did that already but i can imagine why such notifications might be easily missed in some cases. Most normal users will unfortunately have to be more patient until their pet bug gets fixed. Or have to take some interest in helping the community and learn/find out how to install a daily build onto a non critical/test machine and help pushing the fix for the pet bug forward. Werner -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On 10/2/2014 8:58 AM, Werner werner...@gmx.ch wrote: No one suggested that users should have to pay. You obviously haven't read this entire thread. Florian is trying to extort money from me to fix this major regression. But it might be interesting for a certain user to get a bug/feature/regression fixed ASAP and therefore having the option is in my view great. As I said - suggesting a user pay for enhancements is one thing, and one I agree wholeheartedly with. Major regressions, on the other hand, are a very different issue, and your lumping them together is just plain disingenuous. A regression should be dealt with, and in your case it has, just not fast enough for you - but that is live. Yep... and the consequences, in this case, are that my biggest client is seriously considering switching to Microsoft office, and because of the situation, caused purely by the Libreoffice devs refusal to fix the regression in a timely fashion, I have little ammunition to counter the push. I know no one here truly cares, but I do, and this is in fact the only reason I'm discussing this right now - meaning, I'm not a troll, I'm not here to just diss you guys or anything, I have what I consider to be very legitimate complaints about the way that this particular regression has, and is being, handled, and believe that (most of) the comments attempting to blame *me* for not 'ponying up' are irrelevant, invalid, and in some cases, extremely objectionable (see the paragraph following the next sentence as to why I take it as far as 'objectionable'). Obviously, some of the volunteers here disagree, but on that note... I am also very aware that a very good number of the actual Libreoffice developers are paid to work on it (some full, some part) time, so it isn't like Libreoffice is a *purely* volunteer effort. In fact, it is, most likely, much too big of a project to survive on a purely volunteer basis, so please stop talking as if this were the case - it isn't. If I where you I would just test the proposed fix in the daily build to make sure it is fixed the way you expect it to get fixed. Oh, I will be doing this as soon as time permits, but for the last 3 weeks, my plate has been full, and again, since I reverted to 4.1.6 way back when, the bug hasn't on the front burner. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Thanks Stuart, I will do this asap - but most likely won't have time until this weekend. That said - it is a simple test - either you can paste into Input Fields, or you can't. So, yes, I will confirm this at the latest this weekend. Thanks for the links, I'll bookmark them for future reference (I'm not going anywhere, I'll probably never switch from Libreoffice for my personal use and/or my personal company's use)... On 10/2/2014 9:23 AM, V Stuart Foote vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu wrote: @Charles, *, Please would you verify that Jan-Marek's patch to Allow pasting into input fields http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=3f26ab24e0bfd27645c97ff7915fba2db409930a (comment 13 on fdo#76565 https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=76565 ) fully resolves the UX regression introduced with changes to the In-line fields. Grab a build of master from http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/master/Win-x86@39/ and do an MSI administrative install with modification of the bootstrap.ini file to run it in parallel to your production build. See these instructions: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Installing_in_parallel Then post a note to the fdo#76565 issue if all is good in resolving the regression, and that a backport would be very helpful. Or, if UX issue remains--what still needs to be changed. Simply done, and moves the process along. Stuart -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On 10/2/2014 9:25 AM, Werner werner...@gmx.ch wrote: Most normal users will unfortunately have to be more patient until their pet bug gets fixed. Maybe english isn't your first language, and you don't realize how condescending your comments are? This isn't *just* 'someone's pet bug'. This is a major regression that: a) should have never happened in the first place (copy/paste testing should have been among the very first tests the dev(s) coding this major new change/feature performed) and b) since the new feature was replacing a fundamental, well established behavior, the old functionality should have been kept in place as a user configurable option for at *least* the lifetime of one full major release, if not permanently (I would vote for permanently, because I prefer the old pop-up way, as do many of the Libreoffice users I've discussed this with, which is more than 100). Or have to take some interest in helping the community and learn/find out how to install a daily build onto a non critical/test machine and help pushing the fix for the pet bug forward. sigh Again, sometimes people don't have time to do this for every single release, especially when major feature changes are not pre-announced, with calls for testing. Again, sch major changes should *always* provide for a fallback to the old way, at least until the new way is stable. Anything else is just begging for ... well, threads like this one. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On 10/2/2014 7:34 AM, Sophie gautier.sop...@gmail.com wrote: He is not blamed for bringing his pet bug, but for not being proactive on it and for waiting that a volunteer take care of it without helping in any way to have it solved. I have helped in every way that I can. 1. I am not a coder, so I cannot fix it myself, 2. I am not independently wealthy, and my boss won't pay for this kind of stuff, so I cannot pay for bug fixes, 3. I participated in the process as soon as I became aware of the regression, including creating an 'enhancement request' that should be extremely trivial to implement (because the functionality/behavior, invokable by CTRL-SHIFT-F9 is still there) to workaround the major regression that has been totally ignored (and one that I would dearly love to see made permanent), and lastly, 4. I don't think that being asked to pay for fixing major regressions is even remotely reasonable, *especially* when a workaround/fix (to reintroduce the old behavior at least as a workaround until the bug is fixed, if not simply as a permanent option) is available - and I consider anyone who suggests with a straight face that I should have to pay $4,000+ to get it fixed as an extortionist. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On 10/1/2014 11:18 AM, Werner werner...@gmx.ch wrote: On 10/1/2014 17:03, Tanstaafl wrote: On 10/1/2014 9:25 AM, Werner werner...@gmx.ch wrote: On 10/1/2014 14:47, Tanstaafl wrote: I didn't file it (it was already filed), but it is: https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=76565 Have you tested the daily build which included the patch committed on 2014-8-17? Irrelevant. ??? What you are responsible for 60+ PC's and you are not willing to test on a test PC a potential fix to a problem which is serious to you? I didn't say I wasn't willing, or even hadn't. I said it is irrelevant to the fact that this massively major regression has caused us to be unable to update past the 4.1.x series, ie, for the last two MAJOR version releases. As I said: I cannot install 'Daily builds' on 60+ PCs. To the one who suggested that it is on us users to 'prod the devs to do the back-porting'... seriously? Really? PLONK I guess that is your reaction to someone not agreeing with you, No, it is my reaction to someone who suggests something that is ludicrous on its face. That said, maybe you didn't mean it as it sounded, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt... -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On 10/2/2014 10:01 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: Anything else is just begging for ... well, threads like this one. I think everything has been said that needs to be said, so unless someone else says something really ridiculous that hasn't already been countered, I'll just let it go, until I've had time to confirm the fix... -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Hello Tanstaafl, Le 02.10.2014 16:05, Tanstaafl a écrit : On 10/1/2014 11:18 AM, Werner werner...@gmx.ch wrote: On 10/1/2014 17:03, Tanstaafl wrote: On 10/1/2014 9:25 AM, Werner werner...@gmx.ch wrote: On 10/1/2014 14:47, Tanstaafl wrote: I didn't file it (it was already filed), but it is: https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=76565 Have you tested the daily build which included the patch committed on 2014-8-17? Irrelevant. ??? What you are responsible for 60+ PC's and you are not willing to test on a test PC a potential fix to a problem which is serious to you? I didn't say I wasn't willing, or even hadn't. I said it is irrelevant to the fact that this massively major regression has caused us to be unable to update past the 4.1.x series, ie, for the last two MAJOR version releases. As I said: I cannot install 'Daily builds' on 60+ PCs. To the one who suggested that it is on us users to 'prod the devs to do the back-porting'... seriously? Really? PLONK I guess that is your reaction to someone not agreeing with you, No, it is my reaction to someone who suggests something that is ludicrous on its face. That said, maybe you didn't mean it as it sounded, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt... Forgive me if I'm intrusive, but there is something I actually do not understand in your situation. If you are not comfortable disclosing this by all means mail me off list: I would like to better understand the situation because I feel there is some deep misunderstanding on how free software projects work and of what your business problem is. You write that you're a one person company and that your customer has 60 seats you are -presumably- administering in some ways. Am I correct here? You claim not to have the time to test the build on 60 machines - sure, I get this, but then test it on two machines. You call the bug in question a major regression, and forget that the people providing quality assurance are indeed volunteers. They either catch a regression, or they don't. If they don't, automated tests can catch it, or won't. If it were major, I am sure it would have already been patched. Now back to your situation. You do not have the time to test the build, no time to do quality assurance, but if I'm correct you are selling something to your customer that involves LibreOffice, aren't you? If that is the case, could you please explain what you sell to them? Surely you must add some value other than grab the latest stable release and install it? By the way, they are your customers. Some LibreOffice developers do have customers and as a result are paid to work on LibreOffice. The money does not appear out of thin air. They sell support and development services. Now, the LibreOffice project has no customer. It has a community whose users are a part of. As such users have a rather limited role unless they want to contribute. I know it offends some people to read that, but that is the way it works in *every* (surviving) FOSS project. The point I'm getting at is this one: if you are a professional distributing LibreOffice, that is great, but you must be something else than a user on a user list. You must at least have some expertise, and at the moment, I don't see you being anything else than a user who has a bug but will not test a patch because of whatever reason I will not judge. By doing that, you are expressing your (legitimate) choice, which is to be passive and not do anything to solve the situation. You have complained that this is a regression and not a bug, but regressions are not intentional, and they are bugs anyway (a regression is a description of a particular kind of bug). As a service provider of some kind, providing some services involving LibreOffice you may want to do something to help your customers, and yet you won't do anything (testing the patch, accelerate the delivery of the patch, paying for L3 support or whatever). I am afraid I don't understand why you're even complaining :-) Thanks, Charles. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Hi Charles, Le 02/10/2014 15:50, Tanstaafl a écrit : On 10/2/2014 8:58 AM, Werner werner...@gmx.ch wrote: No one suggested that users should have to pay. You obviously haven't read this entire thread. Florian is trying to extort money from me to fix this major regression. ha ha, this one made me laugh, I imagine Florian... really you don't mean what you wrote. But it might be interesting for a certain user to get a bug/feature/regression fixed ASAP and therefore having the option is in my view great. As I said - suggesting a user pay for enhancements is one thing, and one I agree wholeheartedly with. Major regressions, on the other hand, are a very different issue, and your lumping them together is just plain disingenuous. so concerned as you are, you're following the new features page on the wiki and test the areas they may impact you, don't you? And then test daily builds to see if your bugs are fixed and there is no regressions? A regression should be dealt with, and in your case it has, just not fast enough for you - but that is live. Yep... and the consequences, in this case, are that my biggest client is seriously considering switching to Microsoft office, and because of the situation, caused purely by the Libreoffice devs refusal to fix the regression in a timely fashion, I have little ammunition to counter the push. I know no one here truly cares, but I do, and this is in fact the only reason I'm discussing this right now - meaning, I'm not a troll, I'm not here to just diss you guys or anything, I have what I consider to be very legitimate complaints about the way that this particular regression has, and is being, handled, and believe that (most of) the comments attempting to blame *me* for not 'ponying up' are irrelevant, invalid, and in some cases, extremely objectionable (see the paragraph following the next sentence as to why I take it as far as 'objectionable'). So again, if you are concerned by regressions, you should follow what is develop and what could have an impact for you. You can even write a regression test that I can put on our manual tests system. You don't need to wait for things to happen by themselves. Obviously, some of the volunteers here disagree, but on that note... I am also very aware that a very good number of the actual Libreoffice developers are paid to work on it (some full, some part) time, so it isn't like Libreoffice is a *purely* volunteer effort. In fact, it is, most likely, much too big of a project to survive on a purely volunteer basis, so please stop talking as if this were the case - it isn't. Yes but paid by whom? If I where you I would just test the proposed fix in the daily build to make sure it is fixed the way you expect it to get fixed. Oh, I will be doing this as soon as time permits, but for the last 3 weeks, my plate has been full, and again, since I reverted to 4.1.6 way back when, the bug hasn't on the front burner. Oh so who's gonna do the work? QA volunteers again will do the work for your company... Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?
Hi, TomD wrote In reply to this post http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice-Still-td4117297i100.html#a4124368 by alphacrash Hi :) It's not quite that simple :( With Fresh the new features probably will work just fine. They have been about as thoroughly tested as possible. It's any pre-existing stuff that could be broken. If it was just the new features that were possibly broken then there would be no real worry about using Fresh. people could just carry on using LibreOffice in the same way they were doing previously. The problem is often that people try to carry on doing things and suddenly find that it doesn't work anymore because it's broken in Fresh. Often the simplest fix is just to go back to Still and then magically everything works just fine for them again. However, WARNINGS MUST BE SIMPLE. Failure to make warnings simple is an explicit decision to cause harm. The conflict comes from two different sources: 1. It is clear from Florian's and Sophie's comments that there is lack of programmers and a lack of users of the current version being developed. 2. END USERS expect all the previous functionallity to which they have become accustomed. I have to say at this point the move to a nomenclature that conceals the risk, or makes discovery of the risk a multi-step proccess appears to be an attempt to mask the conflict as opposed to addressing the conflict directly. *SUGGESTION: The term you use for the Old Stable equivalent should be guarranteed to contain all previous functionality. (With the exception of pre- advertised discontinuations such as defunct word processor formats)* Warning: This suggestion could affect your release plans. The question is: HOW IMPORTANT ARE YOUR USER'S RELIANCE ON LIBRE OFFICE FEATURES ? It should be stated that Microsoft benefits from ANY perception of UNRELIABILITY and resulting time loss in LibreOffice. I'll give a metric here regarding the WARNING of RISK that most users would want to know. CRITICAL DOCUMENTS: *- Legal documents:* that are due by a specific time in a specific format or you lose the case. /Users cannot afford to be surprised by the loss of a time saving feature or something that alters the format or appearance of the document in any manner or that document may be rejected. To be surprised that functionality has dissappeared and then have to go through each line to verify that the document will only serve the purpose of making LO too unreliable to use. / *- Business documents:*/ that are due by a specific time in a specific format with specific content or you lose your job. These are often documents developed over a time that spans releases. To be surprised that functionality has dissappeared and then have to go through each line to verify that the document will only serve the purpose of making LO too unreliable to use. / *- Medical documents: */ that must contain specific information and must be sent by a specific time or legal liability attaches. Many of these documents are long. To be surprised that functionality has dissappeared and then have to go through each line to verify that the document will only serve the purpose of making LO too unreliable to use./ Regards. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice-Still-tp4117297p4124636.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Hi :) I don't think that bullying users is particularly clever or productive. Lets take a completely different scenario as an example. Lets say that someone buys a can-opener. They use it and like it so at Christmas they buy a new one as a present for a friend. The new one doesn't work. The person takes the opener back to the shop and gets told that they should have paid a few thousand on the researchdevelopment of the new one and that it's the users fault for the can-opener being broken. Ridiculous right? Regards form Tom :) On 2 October 2014 15:39, Sophie gautier.sop...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Charles, Le 02/10/2014 15:50, Tanstaafl a écrit : On 10/2/2014 8:58 AM, Werner werner...@gmx.ch wrote: No one suggested that users should have to pay. You obviously haven't read this entire thread. Florian is trying to extort money from me to fix this major regression. ha ha, this one made me laugh, I imagine Florian... really you don't mean what you wrote. But it might be interesting for a certain user to get a bug/feature/regression fixed ASAP and therefore having the option is in my view great. As I said - suggesting a user pay for enhancements is one thing, and one I agree wholeheartedly with. Major regressions, on the other hand, are a very different issue, and your lumping them together is just plain disingenuous. so concerned as you are, you're following the new features page on the wiki and test the areas they may impact you, don't you? And then test daily builds to see if your bugs are fixed and there is no regressions? A regression should be dealt with, and in your case it has, just not fast enough for you - but that is live. Yep... and the consequences, in this case, are that my biggest client is seriously considering switching to Microsoft office, and because of the situation, caused purely by the Libreoffice devs refusal to fix the regression in a timely fashion, I have little ammunition to counter the push. I know no one here truly cares, but I do, and this is in fact the only reason I'm discussing this right now - meaning, I'm not a troll, I'm not here to just diss you guys or anything, I have what I consider to be very legitimate complaints about the way that this particular regression has, and is being, handled, and believe that (most of) the comments attempting to blame *me* for not 'ponying up' are irrelevant, invalid, and in some cases, extremely objectionable (see the paragraph following the next sentence as to why I take it as far as 'objectionable'). So again, if you are concerned by regressions, you should follow what is develop and what could have an impact for you. You can even write a regression test that I can put on our manual tests system. You don't need to wait for things to happen by themselves. Obviously, some of the volunteers here disagree, but on that note... I am also very aware that a very good number of the actual Libreoffice developers are paid to work on it (some full, some part) time, so it isn't like Libreoffice is a *purely* volunteer effort. In fact, it is, most likely, much too big of a project to survive on a purely volunteer basis, so please stop talking as if this were the case - it isn't. Yes but paid by whom? If I where you I would just test the proposed fix in the daily build to make sure it is fixed the way you expect it to get fixed. Oh, I will be doing this as soon as time permits, but for the last 3 weeks, my plate has been full, and again, since I reverted to 4.1.6 way back when, the bug hasn't on the front burner. Oh so who's gonna do the work? QA volunteers again will do the work for your company... Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Le 02/10/2014 17:04, Tom Davies a écrit : Hi :) I don't think that bullying users is particularly clever or productive. Lets take a completely different scenario as an example. Lets say that someone buys a can-opener. They use it and like it so at Christmas they buy a new one as a present for a friend. The new one doesn't work. The person takes the opener back to the shop and gets told that they should have paid a few thousand on the researchdevelopment of the new one and that it's the users fault for the can-opener being broken. We have to do the difference between SOHO users (single/home users) and corporate users. This is what Werner was explaining by 'being more patient' for single/home users because the others have the ability to benefit from the ecosystem. This is something extremely important to understand that companies are not only big users but also actors, they are those who make LibreOffice too beside the volunteers here. So you may say that what I wrote is ridiculous, but if we want LibreOffice to thrive and have less bugs and more quality, this is something to really take into account. Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Le 02.10.2014 17:04, Tom Davies a écrit : Hi :) I don't think that bullying users is particularly clever or productive. bullying? Lets take a completely different scenario as an example. Lets say that someone buys a can-opener. They use it and like it so at Christmas they buy a new one as a present for a friend. The new one doesn't work. The person takes the opener back to the shop and gets told that they should have paid a few thousand on the researchdevelopment of the new one and that it's the users fault for the can-opener being broken. Ridiculous right? Yes indeed. And that is indeed a completely different example you're taking, because you are comparing buying apples to being part of a community project developing a software. Best, Charles. Regards form Tom :) On 2 October 2014 15:39, Sophie gautier.sop...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Charles, Le 02/10/2014 15:50, Tanstaafl a écrit : On 10/2/2014 8:58 AM, Werner werner...@gmx.ch wrote: No one suggested that users should have to pay. You obviously haven't read this entire thread. Florian is trying to extort money from me to fix this major regression. ha ha, this one made me laugh, I imagine Florian... really you don't mean what you wrote. But it might be interesting for a certain user to get a bug/feature/regression fixed ASAP and therefore having the option is in my view great. As I said - suggesting a user pay for enhancements is one thing, and one I agree wholeheartedly with. Major regressions, on the other hand, are a very different issue, and your lumping them together is just plain disingenuous. so concerned as you are, you're following the new features page on the wiki and test the areas they may impact you, don't you? And then test daily builds to see if your bugs are fixed and there is no regressions? A regression should be dealt with, and in your case it has, just not fast enough for you - but that is live. Yep... and the consequences, in this case, are that my biggest client is seriously considering switching to Microsoft office, and because of the situation, caused purely by the Libreoffice devs refusal to fix the regression in a timely fashion, I have little ammunition to counter the push. I know no one here truly cares, but I do, and this is in fact the only reason I'm discussing this right now - meaning, I'm not a troll, I'm not here to just diss you guys or anything, I have what I consider to be very legitimate complaints about the way that this particular regression has, and is being, handled, and believe that (most of) the comments attempting to blame *me* for not 'ponying up' are irrelevant, invalid, and in some cases, extremely objectionable (see the paragraph following the next sentence as to why I take it as far as 'objectionable'). So again, if you are concerned by regressions, you should follow what is develop and what could have an impact for you. You can even write a regression test that I can put on our manual tests system. You don't need to wait for things to happen by themselves. Obviously, some of the volunteers here disagree, but on that note... I am also very aware that a very good number of the actual Libreoffice developers are paid to work on it (some full, some part) time, so it isn't like Libreoffice is a *purely* volunteer effort. In fact, it is, most likely, much too big of a project to survive on a purely volunteer basis, so please stop talking as if this were the case - it isn't. Yes but paid by whom? If I where you I would just test the proposed fix in the daily build to make sure it is fixed the way you expect it to get fixed. Oh, I will be doing this as soon as time permits, but for the last 3 weeks, my plate has been full, and again, since I reverted to 4.1.6 way back when, the bug hasn't on the front burner. Oh so who's gonna do the work? QA volunteers again will do the work for your company... Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] MySQL native connector for LibreOffice 4.2 and 4.3 (Linux versions)
Hi :) Ahh right :) same reason i'm still on 3.5.7 on some machines then :) Regards from Tom :) On 2 October 2014 13:17, Harvey Nimmo har...@nimmo.de wrote: The current OpenSuse 13.1 distro version of LibreOffice is still 4.1. So I continue to use it for consistency with Opensuse 13.1. On Thu, 2014-10-02 at 12:58 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) On the other hand it gives you an opportunity to install the 4.3.(newest-one) in parallel with the version you use. Then you can check it to see if; 1. this connector works for you and 2. to see if whatever was keeping you on the 4.1.x has been fixed in the newest release. Chances are you'll not be as unlucky as Tasnstaafl as that's pretty rare. Regards from Tom :) On 2 October 2014 12:46, Harvey Nimmo har...@nimmo.de wrote: aha...so what do I learn from this? = I should read the title of the thread and check my own installation before taking action and/or replying. Sorry for that! Cheers Harvey On Thu, 2014-10-02 at 07:09 -0400, Dan Lewis wrote: On 10/02/2014 03:13 AM, Harvey Nimmo wrote: I tried to install the 64-bit and 32-bit versions but get the message The extension 'MySQL Connector' does not work on this computer. I have a 64-bit Terra laptop, with Opensuse 13.1 and LibreOffice Version: 4.1.6.2 Build ID: 410m0(Build:2) Greetings Harvey On Wed, 2014-10-01 at 19:57 -0400, Dan Lewis wrote: I have built one of these for 32 and 64 bit. I am looking for someone who has MariaDB installed on a Linux operating system to test whether this connector will work with MariaDB or not. (Each connector contains the needed MariaDB library files, so they should work.) From the things I have done with MySQL on my 32 and 64 bit computers, it works well. This is the 32 bit version of the connector: If you install in the Extension Manager, it will appear to be version 1.02, but it is really 1.04_3 http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4124313/mysql-connector-ooo_1.oxt This is the 64 bit version of the connector: (The Extension Manager reports this version as 1.04_3 as it should.) http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4124313/mysql-connector-ooo_1.oxt These extensions only work with libreoffice 4.2 and 4.3. They do not work with 4.1. Sorry if I did not mention this before. (I had written this in my email to the Quality Assurance mailing list. The links above are not the correct ones. They should have been nabble_a href=mysql-connector-x86_64.oxtmysql-connector-x86.oxt/nabble_a for the 32 bit connector nabble_a href=mysql-connector-x86_64.oxtmysql-connector-x86_64.oxt/nabble_a for the 64 bit connector Dan -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users +unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Hi :) Yeh, it's good to know when a bug patch is released. It's a bit complicated for most normal users to test it though so it's even better to know when the patch is in a main release. I thought bug-tracker did that already but i can imagine why such notifications might be easily missed in some cases. Regards from Tom :) On 2 October 2014 13:58, Werner werner...@gmx.ch wrote: On 10/2/2014 14:28, Tanstaafl wrote: ... Suggesting that users should have to pay large sums of money to fix major REGRESSIVE bugs is tantamount to EXTORTION. No one suggested that users should have to pay. But it might be interesting for a certain user to get a bug/feature/regression fixed ASAP and therefore having the option is in my view great. A regression should be dealt with, and in your case it has, just not fast enough for you - but that is live. If I where you I would just test the proposed fix in the daily build to make sure it is fixed the way you expect it to get fixed. Werner -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Le 02.10.2014 17:35, Tom Davies a écrit : Hi :) Why then do you not engage with actually helping people on the Users Mailing List when they write in with some problem? I am sorry, I am a volunteer and user support is not my specialty. I handle marketing tasks (essentially social networks and website related stuff). Before I used to be a member of the board of the Document Foundation and my involvement was broader, however users support even at that time wasn't my focus. You seem to be saying that because it's a community project that every person should be involved with every part of it. No, don't put words in my mouth. Read the thread again carefully. Every person has the potential and freedom to get involved in any part of the project. No one tells you to be a developer if you don't want to be one. But if your business is selling services on LibreOffice, then you may seriously want to provide something else than users support. So, lets see you solve some problems for users. I was going to leave it at that, but actually I think it is worth pointing out the following points. I am part of the founders of the LibreOffice project. It does not mean I'm better than anyone here, but LibreOffice is what I've done to solve problems for users. Granted, they may not be bugs, and I may not provide support for users, but I help users avoid vendor lock-in and regain their digital freedom. Thank you for giving me the opportunity of remembering this. Cheers, Charles. Regard from Tom :) On 2 October 2014 16:22, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Le 02.10.2014 17:04, Tom Davies a écrit : Hi :) I don't think that bullying users is particularly clever or productive. bullying? Lets take a completely different scenario as an example. Lets say that someone buys a can-opener. They use it and like it so at Christmas they buy a new one as a present for a friend. The new one doesn't work. The person takes the opener back to the shop and gets told that they should have paid a few thousand on the researchdevelopment of the new one and that it's the users fault for the can-opener being broken. Ridiculous right? Yes indeed. And that is indeed a completely different example you're taking, because you are comparing buying apples to being part of a community project developing a software. Best, Charles. Regards form Tom :) On 2 October 2014 15:39, Sophie gautier.sop...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Charles, Le 02/10/2014 15:50, Tanstaafl a écrit : On 10/2/2014 8:58 AM, Werner werner...@gmx.ch wrote: No one suggested that users should have to pay. You obviously haven't read this entire thread. Florian is trying to extort money from me to fix this major regression. ha ha, this one made me laugh, I imagine Florian... really you don't mean what you wrote. But it might be interesting for a certain user to get a bug/feature/regression fixed ASAP and therefore having the option is in my view great. As I said - suggesting a user pay for enhancements is one thing, and one I agree wholeheartedly with. Major regressions, on the other hand, are a very different issue, and your lumping them together is just plain disingenuous. so concerned as you are, you're following the new features page on the wiki and test the areas they may impact you, don't you? And then test daily builds to see if your bugs are fixed and there is no regressions? A regression should be dealt with, and in your case it has, just not fast enough for you - but that is live. Yep... and the consequences, in this case, are that my biggest client is seriously considering switching to Microsoft office, and because of the situation, caused purely by the Libreoffice devs refusal to fix the regression in a timely fashion, I have little ammunition to counter the push. I know no one here truly cares, but I do, and this is in fact the only reason I'm discussing this right now - meaning, I'm not a troll, I'm not here to just diss you guys or anything, I have what I consider to be very legitimate complaints about the way that this particular regression has, and is being, handled, and believe that (most of) the comments attempting to blame *me* for not 'ponying up' are irrelevant, invalid, and in some cases, extremely objectionable (see the paragraph following the next sentence as to why I take it as far as 'objectionable'). So again, if you are concerned by regressions, you should follow what is develop and what could have an impact for you. You can even write a regression test that I can put on our manual tests system. You don't need to wait for things to happen by themselves. Obviously, some of the volunteers here disagree, but on that note... I am also very aware that a very good number of the actual Libreoffice developers are paid to work on it (some full, some part) time, so it isn't like Libreoffice is a *purely* volunteer effort. In fact, it is, most
[libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
@Tom D., Sophi, Charles H., Cor, *, Please stop! Charles S. (aka Tanstaafl) has agreed to check out the function on master to see if it has addressed the UX regression introduced with the new inline field editing introduced at 4.2--when we have feed back we will revisit fdo#76565 and requesting backport of the patch. That was all that Werner and I had asked, and in my opinion the response we were seeking. The rest is just noise. Stuart -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/How-to-handle-regressions-tp4124391p4124658.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On October 2, 2014 6:17:50 AM PDT, Tanstaafl wrote: The point, again, is it is irrelevant if there is a TEST BUILD that is fixed. Daily builds _are_ test builds. You know what features/functions are important in your environment: * You test for that. * Then you test for fixes to bugs that you reported. * Then you test for fixes that others reported, but affect your environment. # In doing those tests, ignore what claims may or may not have been said about a specific build. Things may have been inadvertently fixed, or broken, between builds. The devs have no idea how people use the product, and thus only test a minuscle subset of available features, functions, and capabilities. QA tests a slightly larger subset of those features, functions, and capabilities. jonathon -- Your documents. Your language. Your way. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On October 2, 2014 6:50:02 AM PDT, Tanstaafl wrote: You obviously haven't read this entire thread. Florian is trying to extort money from me to fix this major regression. Florian was pointing out that the way to ensure the regression is fixed is to either do it yourself, or pay somebody to do it. He then quoted what his firm charges for per incident Tier 3 Support. Major regressions, on the other hand, are a very different issue, and your lumping them together is just plain disingenuous. From a coding petspective, there is no difference between adding an enhancement, fixing a bug, or restoring a feature lost as the result of a regression. Yep... and the consequences, in this case, are that my biggest client is seriously considering switching to Microsoft office, and because of the situation, caused purely by the Libreoffice devs refusal to fix the regression in a timely fashion, How much is that client paying for Tier 1 support for LibreOffice? How much is that client paying for Tier 2 support for LibreOffice? How much is that client paying for Tier 3 support for LibreOffice? How much will that client pay for Tier 1 support for MSO? How much will that client pay for Tier 2 support for MSO? How much will that client pay for Tier 3 support for MSO? jonathon -- Your documents. Your language. Your way. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Hi :) Actually it was Charles doing the bullying rather than you but you wee just supporting him. There's no point in even trying to talk to Charles because he is incapable of listening to anything other than his own opinion. With other people, such as yourself, there is always a chance that they might actually listen. Regards from Tom :) On 2 October 2014 16:16, Sophie gautier.sop...@gmail.com wrote: Le 02/10/2014 17:04, Tom Davies a écrit : Hi :) I don't think that bullying users is particularly clever or productive. Lets take a completely different scenario as an example. Lets say that someone buys a can-opener. They use it and like it so at Christmas they buy a new one as a present for a friend. The new one doesn't work. The person takes the opener back to the shop and gets told that they should have paid a few thousand on the researchdevelopment of the new one and that it's the users fault for the can-opener being broken. We have to do the difference between SOHO users (single/home users) and corporate users. This is what Werner was explaining by 'being more patient' for single/home users because the others have the ability to benefit from the ecosystem. This is something extremely important to understand that companies are not only big users but also actors, they are those who make LibreOffice too beside the volunteers here. So you may say that what I wrote is ridiculous, but if we want LibreOffice to thrive and have less bugs and more quality, this is something to really take into account. Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Hi :) Why then do you not engage with actually helping people on the Users Mailing List when they write in with some problem? You seem to be saying that because it's a community project that every person should be involved with every part of it. So, lets see you solve some problems for users. Regard from Tom :) On 2 October 2014 16:22, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Le 02.10.2014 17:04, Tom Davies a écrit : Hi :) I don't think that bullying users is particularly clever or productive. bullying? Lets take a completely different scenario as an example. Lets say that someone buys a can-opener. They use it and like it so at Christmas they buy a new one as a present for a friend. The new one doesn't work. The person takes the opener back to the shop and gets told that they should have paid a few thousand on the researchdevelopment of the new one and that it's the users fault for the can-opener being broken. Ridiculous right? Yes indeed. And that is indeed a completely different example you're taking, because you are comparing buying apples to being part of a community project developing a software. Best, Charles. Regards form Tom :) On 2 October 2014 15:39, Sophie gautier.sop...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Charles, Le 02/10/2014 15:50, Tanstaafl a écrit : On 10/2/2014 8:58 AM, Werner werner...@gmx.ch wrote: No one suggested that users should have to pay. You obviously haven't read this entire thread. Florian is trying to extort money from me to fix this major regression. ha ha, this one made me laugh, I imagine Florian... really you don't mean what you wrote. But it might be interesting for a certain user to get a bug/feature/regression fixed ASAP and therefore having the option is in my view great. As I said - suggesting a user pay for enhancements is one thing, and one I agree wholeheartedly with. Major regressions, on the other hand, are a very different issue, and your lumping them together is just plain disingenuous. so concerned as you are, you're following the new features page on the wiki and test the areas they may impact you, don't you? And then test daily builds to see if your bugs are fixed and there is no regressions? A regression should be dealt with, and in your case it has, just not fast enough for you - but that is live. Yep... and the consequences, in this case, are that my biggest client is seriously considering switching to Microsoft office, and because of the situation, caused purely by the Libreoffice devs refusal to fix the regression in a timely fashion, I have little ammunition to counter the push. I know no one here truly cares, but I do, and this is in fact the only reason I'm discussing this right now - meaning, I'm not a troll, I'm not here to just diss you guys or anything, I have what I consider to be very legitimate complaints about the way that this particular regression has, and is being, handled, and believe that (most of) the comments attempting to blame *me* for not 'ponying up' are irrelevant, invalid, and in some cases, extremely objectionable (see the paragraph following the next sentence as to why I take it as far as 'objectionable'). So again, if you are concerned by regressions, you should follow what is develop and what could have an impact for you. You can even write a regression test that I can put on our manual tests system. You don't need to wait for things to happen by themselves. Obviously, some of the volunteers here disagree, but on that note... I am also very aware that a very good number of the actual Libreoffice developers are paid to work on it (some full, some part) time, so it isn't like Libreoffice is a *purely* volunteer effort. In fact, it is, most likely, much too big of a project to survive on a purely volunteer basis, so please stop talking as if this were the case - it isn't. Yes but paid by whom? If I where you I would just test the proposed fix in the daily build to make sure it is fixed the way you expect it to get fixed. Oh, I will be doing this as soon as time permits, but for the last 3 weeks, my plate has been full, and again, since I reverted to 4.1.6 way back when, the bug hasn't on the front burner. Oh so who's gonna do the work? QA volunteers again will do the work for your company... Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to:
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Hi, Please find my answers inline Liebe Grüße, / Yours, Florian Reisinger Am 02.10.2014 um 15:05 schrieb Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org: On 10/2/2014 4:34 AM, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: The real extortion here is someone who expects people to work for his own needs for free. I am *not* talking about enhancement/feature requests, I am talking about a major regression that should have never even made it into a release build (in other words, it should have been caught/fixed in rudimentary testing), Dou you think the dev, who implemented this wanted to break this? Also, as I have said more than once - and even created an enhancement request for it - We (QA) do not look at enhancement requests ATM to be honest... We do not have the volunteers There is simply no - zero - reason to: 1. have not provided the ability to fall back to the old behavior when this very new, very different (to the old way) feature was implemented, *especially* considering that the old behavior is obviously still there (since you can still invoke it with CTRL-SHIFT-F9), or even more inexplicable, It is a major change within a branch. Which is dangerous... Can break a lot of things 2. *immediately* re-introduce the old behavior - at the very least as an *option* - once this bug was detected - until it could be properly addressed, as I requested (again, once I became aware of the issue) here: Make a custom build :) Or pay someone to introduce that ASAP https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=79877 Note that the patch already exists, but that you were not proactive in even calling attention on the issue. That is because, as I said: 1. There was basically no notice that such a major change was pending (I've been on the libreoffice users list since it was created, and the openoffice list for years prior to that), You won't find such things on the user list... I guess it was not even on the QA list... Maybe on the dev list... IDK 2. As a one man shop, my time is limited, so my habits with respect to testing new Libreoffice builds were to wait until the next major version is at least at a .2 or .3 version, Far too late to fix in this branch 3. It is impossible to test every single feature, as evidenced by the actual devs who implemented this new feature/change who failed to even TEST the very BASIC paste functionality (as evidenced by the fact that the bug exists). As a dev (I can tell you) you focus on other use cases then the actual users sometimes If a user test the BASIC functionality on alpha 0 this would be soon enough to get the fix (theoretically) As soon as I encountered it (when the first user I had updated reported it to me), I discovered the already opened bug (then subsequently created the 'enhancement' request referenced above to re-enable, as an option, the old behavior). This seems to suggest that the situation your company is on with respect to your LibreOffice deployment is not really problematic. It is, but there is simply nothing we can do about it. If you are not ready to pay anything to have someone fix your problem, Whose problem? First, this is Libreoffice's problem. You cannot use the feature. It's your problem. There are no LibreOffice's problems Second, I am not the decision maker for things like this for our company. I am simply an IT guy. If you must know, if this were my company, I would be supporting numerous open source projects financially, but again - it is not my decision, and so I have to work with what I have, and since I am not independently wealthy, I am unable to pay for things like this out of my own pocket. So leave them with a security vulnerability - Good job IT guy ;) But that is all nothing to do with the fact that the responsibility for fixing REGRESSIONS should fall on the dev(s) that introduced them, and in fact this responsibility should be a part of any agreement they are subject to when formally accepted as dev contributors. You can not force a volunteer Likewise, the responsibility for properly testing major new features is - or should be - again, first and foremost on the dev(s) dong the work, and only secondarily on the users. They do test... But they cannot test everything. The users should test as well. Their pet use case... If you are seriously suggesting otherwise (and I don't think you are, so the following shouldn't apply to you), then you are nuts. and don't even show up to call for an integration of the patch as soon as possible, I called for it as soon as I became aware it was there. But, the point is, it should, again, be first on the dev(s) who introduce the regression to push the patch(es). And you do not care it is risky? Stick with 4.1.6 (that actually works). It works really well, with an important vulnerability left unpatched. That seems to be not
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
In the words you have used: Are you nuts - Devs fixed it, but you do not want to see that... Liebe Grüße, / Yours, Florian Reisinger Am 02.10.2014 um 15:17 schrieb Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org: On 10/2/2014 8:50 AM, Werner werner...@gmx.ch wrote: His pet bug has a fix but he is refusing to test it. Please refrain from posting falsehoods (you don't have a clue what I am or have been doing). The point, again, is it is irrelevant if there is a TEST BUILD that is fixed. The point is we are and have been stuck on an old unsupported build precisely because of the dev(s) refusal to fix a major regression, when there is a perfectly acceptable workaround that could be implemented with very little code and risk (provide option to re-enable the old behavior) that has been completely ignored for months. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Hi, Am 02.10.2014 um 18:20 schrieb jonathon toki.kant...@gmail.com: On October 2, 2014 6:50:02 AM PDT, Tanstaafl wrote: You obviously haven't read this entire thread. Florian is trying to extort money from me to fix this major regression. Florian was pointing out that the way to ensure the regression is fixed is to either do it yourself, or pay somebody to do it. He then quoted what his firm charges for per incident Tier 3 Support. I am not working for Collabora. I am a pure volunteer, but I like that offer :) Liebe Grüße, / Yours, Florian Reisinger -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
@Florian, *, Please can we move on... Charles S. (aka Tanstaafl) was given instructions and has agreed to do what needs to be done and review the corrected function for his use case with a current build of master (4.4.0alpha0+)--and respond in the fdo#76565 https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=76565 BZ issue regards the UX regression. Every thing else is just hubris or a poor understanding of the project's timed release development flow. Please let it go--most users on this ML have NO interest in this thread other than the drama. Stuart -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/How-to-handle-regressions-tp4124391p4124686.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On 10/2/2014 10:37 AM, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: That said, maybe you didn't mean it as it sounded, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt... Forgive me if I'm intrusive, but there is something I actually do not understand in your situation. If you are not comfortable disclosing this by all means mail me off list: I would like to better understand the situation because I feel there is some deep misunderstanding on how free software projects work and of what your business problem is. I'm happy to answer any honest and relevant questions. You write that you're a one person company and that your customer has 60 seats you are -presumably- administering in some ways. Am I correct here? Yes - I'm an independent contractor, and this is my main client. You claim not to have the time to test the build on 60 machines - sure, I get this, but then test it on two machines. I didn't say I didn't have time to test it on one machine until only yesterday and this morning. What I had been trying to make clear was that there was nothing to test until fairly recently, and even then I don't think there any downloadable builds (if there are/were, it wasn't obvious in the bug comments). You call the bug in question a major regression, and forget that the people providing quality assurance are indeed volunteers. They either catch a regression, or they don't. Yes, but ... a) surely you aren't denying the fact that many - most? - of the Libreoffice *developers* - especially ones working on core functionality - are actually *paid* coders, are you? and b) surely you aren't suggesting that the developer(s) doing the actual coding, whether they are volunteers or not, don't have *any* responsibility for doing *basic* testing of new features - especially for features that will also be *removing* the old, long established method the new way is intended to replace (in fact I would suggest that they should have a *lot* of responsibility in this regard, and that it should be a major part of their developer agreement they sign when being given commit access)? Cut/Copy/Paste into fields is certainly what I would call very, *extremely* basic functionality that users would expect to actually work, and apparently - as evidenced by the very existence of this bug - they *didn't do that*. If they don't, automated tests can catch it, or won't. If it were major, I am sure it would have already been patched. sigh Inability to cut/copy/paste from/into fields is a *major* regression - for anyone who uses them. Now back to your situation. You do not have the time to test the build, no time to do quality assurance, Never said that - but as you have so aptly pointed out above, it is impossible to test everything... BUT... It is *much* easier for a developer who is coding a very specific feature to test *that specific new feature*, than it is for a user to try to test *every* *single* *feature* of a software like Libreoffice before each and every release. Do you not see this? Is this not so obvious as to almost knock your head off? but if I'm correct you are selling something to your customer that involves LibreOffice, aren't you? Nope. I'm an I.T. guy. I manage this clients network, servers, workstations, phone system, etc. Installing, managing the installs, and helping users with using Libreoffice effectively (started with Openoffice many years ago) is only one, very tiny part of what I do here. The point I'm getting at is this one: if you are a professional distributing LibreOffice, that is great, but you must be something else than a user on a user list. You must at least have some expertise, and at the moment, I don't see you being anything else than a user who has a bug but will not test a patch because of whatever reason I will not judge. The bug was reported on March 24th, confirmed on the 28th (and again by Sophie on April 15th). I ran headlong into the bug in early July, found the open bug and commented on the severity, and asked for consideration of my enhancement request to bring back the old behavior (even if only as an option). Lots of follow up comments confirming the bug in July. Joel asked if it was a regression, making it clear he didn't read the comments (the comments make it very clear that it works fine in 4.1.x). A patch was provided almost a month later - so, only a month and a half ago - saying it was pushed to 'master' (whatever that means - we users are NOT developers), with no instructions on where to download test builds, and no requests to test it. A month later the OP asked if the 4.3 series would be patched or if we would have to wait until 4.4, and he was rudely (imnsho) told by Joel to 'feel free to submit a patch', which happens far too often. Who was it on here complaining about me/users not asking for patches top be applied? This is what happens more often than not when we do. By doing that, snipped
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
On 10/2/2014 12:04 PM, jonathon toki.kant...@gmail.com wrote: The devs have no idea how people use the product, and thus only test a minuscle subset of available features, functions, and capabilities. Relevant and true to an extent and in some cases, certainly, but I'm sorry, cut/copy/paste functionality with respect to input fields is bare minimum basic *fundamental* behavior, and 'knowing people will want to use the fields in such a manner' - well, if a developer truly has such a limited imagination, then I highly doubt they would make a competent developer. Bigger picture question - which is more reasonable: a) expecting an end user to test every, single feature among the thousands of features provided by Libreoffice, before every single update, or on every single daily build? or b) expecting the actual developers who are doing the coding to do at least some bare, minimum testing of the code that they, themselves are writing, with respect to the feature(s) said code is affecting? Asked another way with respect to this specific issue: Which is more reasonable: a) expecting an end user to find and discover that one very specific feature that they use among hundreds (or more) of other features has a bug? or b) expecting the developer doing the actual coding for a very specific feature/function, to find a bug with respect to the most basic and fundamental aspect of said feature? The developer *knows* what they are working on, and *knows* what the basic functionality should be. I'm being accused of 'refusing to help' by way of QA, testing, etc. Tell me - how are *users* supposed to know that a major feature they rely on on a daily basis is being replaced? In my opinion, this new feature (and others like it - especially when it is *replacing* an *existing* feature - should have been announced right here on the users list, with requests to test it. Another major point being missed here is that we aren't talking about some obscure bug that only happens under certain circumstances. We are talking about the inability to paste into input fields, in every case, on every platform, in every version since 4.2.x. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] [Base Database] How to open a particular form at startup ?
Hi, i have a database created with Base from LibreOffice. i have a form stored in the same ODB file called FMain. Now how can i do to open automatically the form when i open the ODB file ? thx. A. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Impress: Example presentations showing off our feature set?
I have a number of presentations made with Impress which I'd be glad to share with you - ranging from historical to gardening, etc. - all with photographs, fancy fonts, scripts, music, ... I've been switching many of these to video - I realized that was a more effective medium. If you're interested, let me know how to send them to you - I could upload them via DropBox; I just would ask your downloading them asap so I could remove them from the box; and I would appreciate being given credit - as well as the appropriate credits being left on the ppts. From: Tom Davies tomc...@gmail.com Date: Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:05 PM Subject: [libreoffice-users] Impress: Example presentations showing off our feature set? To: Robinson Tryon bishop.robin...@gmail.com Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org users@global.libreoffice.org Hi :) Robinson Tryon has done tons of work for LibreOffice and is just asking for a couple of slides to help his presentation look better. Does anyone have or know of anything that might help him? Please contact him directly if you have as i'm not sure if he is on this mailing list Thanks and regards from Tom :) On 30 September 2014 23:36, Robinson Tryon bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote: Hiya, I'm giving a talk on Thursday, and just got an invitation to *also* give a mini-presentation showing off some of the neat features we have available in Impress. Does anyone have a presentation or two that shows off some of our advanced features? Or perhaps has a couple of cool slides or nifty techniques that you used when making your last talk? Best, --R -- Robinson Tryon QA Engineer - The Document Foundation LibreOffice Community Outreach Herald qu...@libreoffice.org -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] [Base Database] How to open a particular form at startup ?
Hi :) Is this something to do with somehow saving the Form outside of the database so that people can just double-click on the Form itself without opening the database or am i barking up the wrong tree? Regards from Tom :) On 2 October 2014 21:00, Rafnews raf.n...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, i have a database created with Base from LibreOffice. i have a form stored in the same ODB file called FMain. Now how can i do to open automatically the form when i open the ODB file ? thx. A. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
Um - well two points: 1. None of the paid developers are paid by TDF - we have 0 paid developers on staff. 2. Most commits are still done by volunteers and many are done by paid developers on their free time (ie. when they are volunteering). On 10/02/2014 12:53 PM, Tanstaafl wrote: On 10/2/2014 12:04 PM, jonathon toki.kant...@gmail.com wrote: The devs have no idea how people use the product, and thus only test a minuscle subset of available features, functions, and capabilities. Relevant and true to an extent and in some cases, certainly, but I'm sorry, cut/copy/paste functionality with respect to input fields is bare minimum basic *fundamental* behavior, and 'knowing people will want to use the fields in such a manner' - well, if a developer truly has such a limited imagination, then I highly doubt they would make a competent developer. Bigger picture question - which is more reasonable: a) expecting an end user to test every, single feature among the thousands of features provided by Libreoffice, before every single update, or on every single daily build? or b) expecting the actual developers who are doing the coding to do at least some bare, minimum testing of the code that they, themselves are writing, with respect to the feature(s) said code is affecting? Asked another way with respect to this specific issue: Which is more reasonable: a) expecting an end user to find and discover that one very specific feature that they use among hundreds (or more) of other features has a bug? or b) expecting the developer doing the actual coding for a very specific feature/function, to find a bug with respect to the most basic and fundamental aspect of said feature? The developer *knows* what they are working on, and *knows* what the basic functionality should be. I'm being accused of 'refusing to help' by way of QA, testing, etc. Tell me - how are *users* supposed to know that a major feature they rely on on a daily basis is being replaced? In my opinion, this new feature (and others like it - especially when it is *replacing* an *existing* feature - should have been announced right here on the users list, with requests to test it. Another major point being missed here is that we aren't talking about some obscure bug that only happens under certain circumstances. We are talking about the inability to paste into input fields, in every case, on every platform, in every version since 4.2.x. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
I realise Stuart has asked us to let this go, as people are now mostly arguing over what they think Tanstaafl won't do, but by now has said he will, and thus the arguments are pointless, but some things said here are just too wrong to be left alone... I'm sure Florian doesn't realise quite what he is saying. He is trying to defend his position, because he believes in it, and that means rebutting the arguments against it, despite the broken logic and dangerous sentiments that introduces. However, I think some things need to be pointed out. Please forgive me for using LO as a convenience in the below to mean the people behind the LibreOffice project and those who defend their position, whomever they may be. I don't know who all they are. I'm not even sure if Florian is part of the LO team (although he does imply it below), he may only be defending their position. I also realise that probably many of the devs (and others) don't share the views below. So I am not speaking about the views of any single person or persons, but the view as presented here, and in general in this thread, as representing the LO project's viewpoint. Please also understand that I don't use the feature in question, and until now didn't even know it was broken (well, I do recall this coming up on this list in the past, now that it is mentioned...). I am also not familiar with the bug reporting process, as I haven't reported any bugs myself yet. The process required creating accounts and stuff, and seemed like some effort, so I left it for a better time. I do have bugs to report, and fully intend to do so for the betterment of LO, I just haven't as of this point in time, so am unfamiliar with quite how the whole thing works. So largely my impressions of the current situation come purely from that has been said in this thread. The below is, of course, just my personal view, IANAL, take with a pinch of salt, YMMV, etc, etc. Paul On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 20:46:42 +0200 Florian Reisinger flo...@libreoffice.org wrote: Hi, Please find my answers inline Liebe Grüße, / Yours, Florian Reisinger Am 02.10.2014 um 15:05 schrieb Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org: On 10/2/2014 4:34 AM, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: The real extortion here is someone who expects people to work for his own needs for free. I am *not* talking about enhancement/feature requests, I am talking about a major regression that should have never even made it into a release build (in other words, it should have been caught/fixed in rudimentary testing), Dou you think the dev, who implemented this wanted to break this? Also, as I have said more than once - and even created an enhancement request for it - We (QA) do not look at enhancement requests ATM to be honest... We do not have the volunteers The problem here is that, after several attempts to tell Tanstaafl that he hasn't been part of the process and thus can't complain, you now tell him you pretty much ignore the process anyway. Does LO want user input or not? You cannot base your whole position on expecting the user to be a large part of the development process and also ignore the user's input. I understand you're not saying you're ignoring all user input, only enhancement requests, but in this case the enhancement request was a part of the process that Tanstaafl followed in order to help move things along with the bug that concerned him. And after accusing him of not being active enough in resolving it, you're basically saying that he wasn't active enough because you ignored half his activity. Clearly this does represent a problem in this specific case. The LO side clearly does have something to answer for here. And in the general case, ignoring enhancement requests due to lack of developer time sounds reasonable, but then what exactly are the developers doing with their time right now? Are there so many bugs that they are only fixing bugs? In that case are no further major revisions expected any time soon? I'm assuming major revisions are still planned for the near future, so am assuming that features are being added, but where do those features come from if not enhancement requests? Unless there are both feature and enhancement requests, and if so, please explain exactly what the difference is, and why only one of those is considered important right now. There is simply no - zero - reason to: 1. have not provided the ability to fall back to the old behavior when this very new, very different (to the old way) feature was implemented, *especially* considering that the old behavior is obviously still there (since you can still invoke it with CTRL-SHIFT-F9), or even more inexplicable, It is a major change within a branch. Which is dangerous... Can break a lot of things Just like the previous major change (the one which introduced the bug), but I guess the difference is that that wasn't
[libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
@Paul, *, This is a non-issue, please STOP. But, just so it is clear in context Tanstaafl on this ML is the Charles in fdo#76565 BZ Paul-6 wrote I may be wrong, but as far as I have understood from Tanstaafl's posts, there was no notice on the bug tracker that there was a test build claiming to fix this, or at least no notice to the people connected to the bug, at least until quite recently. If I'm wrong, then one can debate about why he didn't notice this earlier and test it and post back to the bug tracker so that the fix could be included in a release build. But if my understanding is correct, then there is almost no way that LO can claim they don't have egg on their face. Trying to divert attention off them by blaming Tanstaafl isn't making the egg go away. Stuart -=ref=- https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=76565#c14 -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/How-to-handle-regressions-tp4124391p4124706.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: How to handle regressions
+100,000! This has been a total waste of the time of the other members of this mailing list. While this thread was raging, other topics also has some fairly long threads. The only difference is that this thread produced no results. Another thread at the same time resulted in the building of the MySQL native connector for Linux (32 and 64 bit versions) that should work in LibreOffice 4.2 and 4.3. So at least one thread got some results. What about this thread? What has been created other than a large amount of hurt feelings? Dan On 10/02/2014 07:33 PM, V Stuart Foote wrote: @Paul, *, This is a non-issue, please STOP. But, just so it is clear in context Tanstaafl on this ML is the Charles in fdo#76565 BZ Paul-6 wrote I may be wrong, but as far as I have understood from Tanstaafl's posts, there was no notice on the bug tracker that there was a test build claiming to fix this, or at least no notice to the people connected to the bug, at least until quite recently. If I'm wrong, then one can debate about why he didn't notice this earlier and test it and post back to the bug tracker so that the fix could be included in a release build. But if my understanding is correct, then there is almost no way that LO can claim they don't have egg on their face. Trying to divert attention off them by blaming Tanstaafl isn't making the egg go away. Stuart -=ref=- https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=76565#c14 -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/How-to-handle-regressions-tp4124391p4124706.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Many apologies to the devs generally and the individual one in question
Hi :) I'd just like to extend my deepest regrets and apologies to the dev who had worked on whatever it was that caused a breakage. I'm sure they felt horrendous when they realised there was a problem! The highly public thread must have been a nightmare! For that i am deeply sorry. Our devs are great, fantastic even. The recent statistic showing how low the error-rate is proved it. Working through coding must involve some seriously intense focus and can't be easy! Errors happen and nothing is perfect, of course but that is inevitable and unavoidable. It is pretty awesome that this dev, and the others manage to get the error-rate so incredibly low This particular dev was doing really great work for a good cause and for that we owe him or her a huge debt of gratitude. Many, many thanks to all of them, and particularly to the one we have made such a fuss about. Without their amazing work we wouldn't be here, arguing about relatively tiny issues. Great job all!! :))) Many regards from Tom :) -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Many apologies to the devs generally and the individual one in question
Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Any previous comments in my post about the dev in question admitting guilt should have been clarified more. I did say it was not a major thing to be guilty of, and I really mean that. These things happen, and a simple oops, my bad, I'll fix that is really all that I feel is needed here. The great work the devs are doing overall is far, far more important than any little slips (and even the odd major one) that may creep in from time to time. I really would like to be among the first to congratulate the whole LO team on a job well done. I know my most seen thoughts on this list are pointing out the bad, as that is where the room for improvement lies, and I do try to be constructive, but that isn't enough. I should be just as vocal about the good as the bad. And I do seriously believe the good outweighs the bad. A large congratulations to the whole LO team and the community here, which does far more good than harm, despite the odd contentious thread. Paul On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 23:00:21 +0100 Tom Davies tomc...@gmail.com wrote: Hi :) I'd just like to extend my deepest regrets and apologies to the dev who had worked on whatever it was that caused a breakage. I'm sure they felt horrendous when they realised there was a problem! The highly public thread must have been a nightmare! For that i am deeply sorry. Our devs are great, fantastic even. The recent statistic showing how low the error-rate is proved it. Working through coding must involve some seriously intense focus and can't be easy! Errors happen and nothing is perfect, of course but that is inevitable and unavoidable. It is pretty awesome that this dev, and the others manage to get the error-rate so incredibly low This particular dev was doing really great work for a good cause and for that we owe him or her a huge debt of gratitude. Many, many thanks to all of them, and particularly to the one we have made such a fuss about. Without their amazing work we wouldn't be here, arguing about relatively tiny issues. Great job all!! :))) Many regards from Tom :) -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] MySQL native connector for LibreOffice 4.2 and 4.3 (Linux versions)
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 10:22 PM, Dan Lewis elderdanle...@gmail.com wrote: I understand your problem. Accidentally, both links were to the same 32 bit connector because I became confused by the naming Nabble used for the two files. (I uploaded teh same file twice.) Here is the 32 bit connector for others if they want to test it: nabble_a href=mysql-connector-x86.oxtmysql-connector-x86.oxt Here is the 64 bit connector (which is the one you really needed): nabble_a href=mysql-connector-x86_64.oxtmysql-connector-x86_64.oxt/nabble_a And a very special thanks to you for what you have done. Hmm... not sure what the thanks are for but, thank you and you're welcome. And thanks to you. The corrected links enabled me to use the native MySQL connector. Not like I have a particular need. However databases, the desktop kind, are one of the things that got me started on an IT career so I continue to dabble. I have limited funds to purchase h/w or s/w and as a result the h/w and s/w I use to experiment is relatively underpowered. I have a database from the US gov't, npidata freely available, with about 3.5 million rows and around 350 columns. Actually the gov't provides a csv. Imported it into a MySQL db using the MySQL command line. Never been able to read the primary table using the Java connector. With the native MySQL connector I can. At the MySQL command line I can. That alone tells me something is better. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
