Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Avery 8167 label printing

[Gary Dale]

On 09/02/16 11:39 PM, Ken Springer wrote:

On 2/9/16 2:23 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

On 09/02/16 03:23 PM, Dave Liesse wrote:

I've never had any luck with any of the Avery templates I've tried
(although my problem has been mostly with left-to-right adjustments
rather than top-to-bottom).  I finally just got in the habit of
setting my paragraph position as 1/8" into the label; fooling with the
template specs didn't do the job.




I've occasionally found problems with the labels but they are minor. For
small labels, like return-address labels, the print V. Pitch may be a
little off so the labels creep up or down a little as you go down the 
page.


I think this could also occur due to printer's paper feed abilities.  
In this case, the error is consistent.
Are you referring to the page slipping on the rollers? That would likely 
produce inconsistent results. If the labels are simply off consistently, 
that would be the top margin. If they vary consistently down that page, 
that would be vertical pitch.





There used to be a problem with multi-column labels but they seem to
have redone the label specification to correct that. When creating
labels, there is "Format" tab that lets you adjust the label properties.
In its new incarnation, it is easy to use and gives you exactly what you
need to adjust the properties of incorrectly specified common label
formats down to 1/100 of an inch.


In the end, I'll probably do this.


You can specify the top margin, label height and vertical pitch (the
last two may be different if there is space between the labels) and do
the same for the left margin, label width and horizontal pitch. They
also allow you to specify the page size and the number of rows and 
columns.


If you think a label isn't defined correctly, fix it. Also, file a bug
report so that the developers can fix it for everyone. It's better to
light a candle or two than to curse the darkness.


In this case, the label spec is correct.  Font design will have to 
have a factor in this someway too, I suspect.


It shouldn't unless LO calculates the position of the next label 
relative to the end of the previous text. It would seem more natural 
(and simpler) to calculate in absolute terms.


--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-users] Re: Avery 8167 label printing

[Ken Springer]

On 2/10/16 8:28 AM, Gary Dale wrote:

On 09/02/16 11:39 PM, Ken Springer wrote:

On 2/9/16 2:23 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

On 09/02/16 03:23 PM, Dave Liesse wrote:

I've never had any luck with any of the Avery templates I've tried
(although my problem has been mostly with left-to-right adjustments
rather than top-to-bottom).  I finally just got in the habit of
setting my paragraph position as 1/8" into the label; fooling with the
template specs didn't do the job.




I've occasionally found problems with the labels but they are minor. For
small labels, like return-address labels, the print V. Pitch may be a
little off so the labels creep up or down a little as you go down the
page.


I think this could also occur due to printer's paper feed abilities.
In this case, the error is consistent.

Are you referring to the page slipping on the rollers? That would likely
produce inconsistent results. If the labels are simply off consistently,
that would be the top margin. If they vary consistently down that page,
that would be vertical pitch.


Slippage in the rollers is what I was thinking of.

In my case, the error is consistent, so slippage is not problem.

Telling the printer where to actually start the printing appears to be 
the issue.  We'll call it the top margin for convenience, but even that 
has it's own issues.  Since the driver is TWAIN, the brand of printer 
shouldn't make a difference as long as the printer manufacturer doesn't 
screw up the driver.


Time to "expand our horizons".  (Sounds like a motivational speaker, 
doesn't it?   LOL)


LO's built-in template, displayed on the screen, is correct.  The 
paper's top margin is .5" on the screen and in real life.  Positioning 
of the text is also correct, as displayed on the screen.


Only printing is in error.

Now...  Suppose you are creating X number of label designs for someone 
else.  They don't have LO, how to you get the labels to them?  Today, I 
think almost everyone's answer would be PDF.


Fair enough, but that doesn't work either.  If you create the PDF with 
the default template settings, which are correct, the resulting PDF file 
is also in error.  I tried it.  Same vertical offset issue.


So you change the top margin, create the PDF, and yep, labels print 
correctly.


What's wrong with this?

In the above scenario, the recipient of the PDF may/can/will look at the 
labels before printing them, to see if they are correct.  (If they 
don't, they aren't doing their job.)  Guess what?  They'll see the top 
margin error, more easily spotted if you have a vertical ruler option. 
If you send a PDF based on the correct template (the one supplied by 
LO), the printing will be off.  If you send a PDF based on a modified 
template, the visual display on the screen will be off.


In this situation, LO falls on its face in providing WYSIWYG...  What 
You See Is What You Get.  One of the principals in modern computers. 
What is displayed on the screen is what is supposed to come out of the 
printer or other device.


This is no different than if you had the font set for 12 points, but the 
output to either screen or printer was 16 points.  Not a good thing in 
the long run.





There used to be a problem with multi-column labels but they seem to
have redone the label specification to correct that. When creating
labels, there is "Format" tab that lets you adjust the label properties.
In its new incarnation, it is easy to use and gives you exactly what you
need to adjust the properties of incorrectly specified common label
formats down to 1/100 of an inch.


In the end, I'll probably do this.


You can specify the top margin, label height and vertical pitch (the
last two may be different if there is space between the labels) and do
the same for the left margin, label width and horizontal pitch. They
also allow you to specify the page size and the number of rows and
columns.

If you think a label isn't defined correctly, fix it. Also, file a bug
report so that the developers can fix it for everyone. It's better to
light a candle or two than to curse the darkness.


In this case, the label spec is correct.  Font design will have to
have a factor in this someway too, I suspect.


It shouldn't unless LO calculates the position of the next label
relative to the end of the previous text. It would seem more natural
(and simpler) to calculate in absolute terms.


Upon retrospect, I agree.  But it is something you have to be cognizant 
of when designing the label, as it can affect the apparent vertical 
centering of text on the label.  Which can effect what you think may be 
happening with label output.  In my case, the label includes a graphic, 
which is unaffected by text positioning.  Makes it easy to figure out 
where the problem is likely to be.


Another overall negative effect of this problem is, you have to ask 
yourself, if this is broken, what else in the suite is broken? 
Especially if you are using LO to make a living.  Is there another 
feature I 

[libreoffice-users] Access to character accent menu in Writer on El Cap

[Marc Grober]

A great OSX feature  is the character accent menu available in OSX (you
can set the OS so that holding down a key pops up a menu with special
characters, instead of just endlessly repeating the key).  With the roll
out of ElCap (OSX 10.11.3), Apple made repeating letters the default. 
While one can reset the default to the pop-up accent menu,  this reset
does NOT work in LO (one has to manual enter the Special Character menu).

Is this rejection of the OS setting a 'feature' of LO (5.0.0.5) or a
bug, and in either case is there a way to implement the  OS setting?




-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-users] Calc, Writer, tables

[MENGUAL Jean-Philippe]

Hi,

I've just noticed that:
1. Open a Calc file
2. Copy or cut the full sheet
3. Paste it in Writer (a blank doc)

On Office (Word), the pasted table from Excel to Word is in editable
form, browseable through keyboard, etc. On LibreOffice, the Calc table
is inserted as an object. Consequently, it seems that I cannot edit it.
More boring, I can't browse it with the caret. It becomes a big a11y issue.

Is it a known thing? Should I report it as a bug, e.g. in a wishlist? Is
there a way to do differently?

Thanks for your feedback,



-- 

Jean-Philippe MENGUAL

HYPRA, progressons ensemble

Tél.: 01 84 73 06 61
Mail: cont...@hypra.fr

Site Web: http://hypra.fr

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-users] Java broke on LO 5.1 on Macs

[Larry Gusaas]

LibreOffice 5.1.0 doesn't find the installed Java on my Mac (MacBook Pro Retina, OS X version 
10.11.3). Had to reinstall LibreOffice 5.0.4.


--
_

Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - 
Edgard Varese


--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Java broke on LO 5.1 on Macs

[Italo Vignoli]

On 10/02/16 20:10, Larry Gusaas wrote:
> LibreOffice 5.1.0 doesn't find the installed Java on my Mac (MacBook Pro
> Retina, OS X version 10.11.3). Had to reinstall LibreOffice 5.0.4.

Funny, I have been using LibreOffice 5.1 since Beta 1 on two different
MacBooks without any issue. Only if I use a wizard LibreOffice asks for
Java, otherwise the program runs fine (no Java installed on one Mac). I
will look if anyone has filed a bug.

-- 
Italo Vignoli - LibreOffice Marketing & PR
mobile +39.348.5653829 - email / jabber it...@libreoffice.org
hangout / jabber italo.vign...@gmail.com - skype italovignoli
GPG Key ID - 0xAAB8D5C0
DB75 1534 3FD0 EA5F 56B5 FDA6 DE82 934C AAB8 D5C0

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Calc, Writer, tables

[Brian Barker]

At 18:19 10/02/2016 +0100, Jean-Philippe Mengual wrote:

I've just noticed that:
1. Open a Calc file
2. Copy or cut the full sheet
3. Paste it in Writer (a blank doc)

On [Microsoft] Office (Word), the pasted table from Excel to Word is 
in editable form, browseable through keyboard, etc. On LibreOffice, 
the Calc table is inserted as an object. Consequently, it seems that 
I cannot edit it. More boring, I can't browse it with the caret. It 
becomes a big a11y issue.


What you see initially is how the output will appear if you print 
your text document. You can, however, browse and edit the spreadsheet 
material. Just double-click the inserted object or use right-click | Edit.


There are many ways that you can paste spreadsheet material into a 
text document, which you can access using Edit | Paste Special... (or 
Ctrl+Shift+V) instead of ordinary paste. You may want to look in 
particular at "DDE link". Note that some styles maintain a link 
between the two documents (but which can subsequently be broken), so 
that modifications to the spreadsheet are carried into the text 
document. You may want to experiment to compare the effects of the 
various techniques.



Should I report it as a bug, e.g. in a wishlist?


Probably not.

I trust this helps.

Brian Barker


--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Avery 8167 label printing

[Virgil Arrington]

Ken Springer wrote
I remember years ago when Intel turned out a chip that had an error in 
it's math calculations.  It was a rare happening, but when they 
finally admitted it publicly, trying to say it wasn't important do to 
the rare occurrence, it did not go over well at all!  




About 25 years ago, I was the treasurer of my children's preschool. I 
created a spreadsheet to calculate paychecks, and I found that the 
paycheck was consistently off by .01 (a penny). It drove me nuts. As it 
turned out, one part of the calculation required the division of 28 by 
7, which every third grader knows is 4. Well, my spreadsheet gave an 
answer of 3.99_. By itself, it wasn't a big problem, but later 
in the chain of operations, the 3.9_ produced a result that rounded 
*down* to the nearest penny instead of *up*, which it would have done if 
the 28/7 had resulted in 4 instead of 3.. I complained to a computer 
friend of mine who tried to explain that the computer's answer was more 
"precise" than my mental math of 28/7=4. I didn't buy it.


I learned a valuable lesson in blindly accepting a computer's 
calculation simply because it was made by a computer.


Virgil

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Avery 8167 label printing

[libreoffice-ml . mbourne]

Ken Springer wrote:

On 2/10/16 8:28 AM, Gary Dale wrote:

On 09/02/16 11:39 PM, Ken Springer wrote:

On 2/9/16 2:23 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

On 09/02/16 03:23 PM, Dave Liesse wrote:

I've never had any luck with any of the Avery templates I've tried
(although my problem has been mostly with left-to-right adjustments
rather than top-to-bottom).  I finally just got in the habit of
setting my paragraph position as 1/8" into the label; fooling with the
template specs didn't do the job.




I've occasionally found problems with the labels but they are minor.
For
small labels, like return-address labels, the print V. Pitch may be a
little off so the labels creep up or down a little as you go down the
page.


I think this could also occur due to printer's paper feed abilities.
In this case, the error is consistent.

Are you referring to the page slipping on the rollers? That would likely
produce inconsistent results. If the labels are simply off consistently,
that would be the top margin. If they vary consistently down that page,
that would be vertical pitch.


Slippage in the rollers is what I was thinking of.

In my case, the error is consistent, so slippage is not problem.

Telling the printer where to actually start the printing appears to be
the issue.  We'll call it the top margin for convenience, but even that
has it's own issues.  Since the driver is TWAIN, the brand of printer
shouldn't make a difference as long as the printer manufacturer doesn't
screw up the driver.

Time to "expand our horizons".  (Sounds like a motivational speaker,
doesn't it?   LOL)

LO's built-in template, displayed on the screen, is correct.  The
paper's top margin is .5" on the screen and in real life.  Positioning
of the text is also correct, as displayed on the screen.

Only printing is in error.

Now...  Suppose you are creating X number of label designs for someone
else.  They don't have LO, how to you get the labels to them?  Today, I
think almost everyone's answer would be PDF.


You may already realise, but in case not... Adobe Reader has an option 
to "Shrink oversized pages" when printing. You might not expect that to 
do anything when printing an A4 PDF printing onto A4 paper, but it 
actually shrinks the page slightly to allow for the non-printable 
margins around the page. To get a 1:1 scale print you have to select 
"Actual size". It remembers the last setting you use, so you have to 
remember to check what's it's set to each time.



Fair enough, but that doesn't work either.  If you create the PDF with
the default template settings, which are correct, the resulting PDF file
is also in error.  I tried it.  Same vertical offset issue.


Is the vertical offset incorrect on screen as well as when printed? When 
I first read that, I thought you meant it was wrong on-screen as well, 
but from your discussion below it sounds like the PDF is displayed with 
the correct margin, but prints with the wrong margin?



So you change the top margin, create the PDF, and yep, labels print
correctly.

What's wrong with this?

In the above scenario, the recipient of the PDF may/can/will look at the
labels before printing them, to see if they are correct.  (If they
don't, they aren't doing their job.)  Guess what?  They'll see the top
margin error, more easily spotted if you have a vertical ruler option.
If you send a PDF based on the correct template (the one supplied by
LO), the printing will be off.  If you send a PDF based on a modified
template, the visual display on the screen will be off.


So if you have a PDF which displays on screen with the correct margin, 
but when printed it has the wrong margin? To get it to print with the 
correct margin, you have to produce a PDF which displays with an 
incorrect margin? Assuming you're printing the PDF at actual size, that 
would suggest the printer or its driver is in error (unless your PDF 
reader has the same issue as LibreOffice). Once LibreOffice has created 
a PDF, it has nothing to do with any difference between how the PDF 
reader displays and prints it.


If you open a PDF created from a completely different application, does 
that also print with different margins than when displayed on-screen?


Can you try printing your LibreOffice document and/or PDF on a different 
printer? Rather than wasting labels, you could of course print on plain 
paper and hold it up against the labels ;o)



I remember years ago when Intel turned out a chip that had an error in
it's math calculations.  It was a rare happening, but when they finally
admitted it publicly, trying to say it wasn't important do to the rare
occurrence, it did not go over well at all!  


How many Pentium designers does it take to screw in a light bulb?
1.99904274017, but that's close enough for non-technical people.
;o)

Mark.


--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: 

[libreoffice-users] Re: Java broke on LO 5.1 on Macs

[Larry Gusaas]

On 2016-02-10, 3:48 PM libreoffice-ml.mbou...@spamgourmet.com wrote:

Italo Vignoli wrote:

On 10/02/16 20:10, Larry Gusaas wrote:

LibreOffice 5.1.0 doesn't find the installed Java on my Mac (MacBook Pro
Retina, OS X version 10.11.3). Had to reinstall LibreOffice 5.0.4.


Funny, I have been using LibreOffice 5.1 since Beta 1 on two different
MacBooks without any issue. Only if I use a wizard LibreOffice asks for
Java, otherwise the program runs fine (no Java installed on one Mac). I
will look if anyone has filed a bug.


Some of the functions in Database don't work without Java

I think you need to install 32-bit or 64-bit Java as appropriate to match LibreOffice. You 
can install both on a 64-bit system, so that both 32-bit and 64-bit applications can use Java.


Not applicable to Macs

Wasn't there something a while back about LibreOffice on Mac not recognising Java 8 unless 
Java 7 was also installed, or something like that? I don't know if that's still the case; I 
don't have a Mac so haven't followed it closely. From what I recall I think it was a bug in 
Java, not something LibreOffice could do anything about.


Macs require Java 6 installed in order to recognize newer version. That is not the issue since 
I have it installed.


As I said in my original post, i reinstalled LibreOffice 5.0.4. Java is recognized in the 
Preference settings. There is a bug in LO 5.1 which prevents LibreOffice finding Java.



--
_

Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - 
Edgard Varese



--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Java broke on LO 5.1 on Macs

[libreoffice-ml . mbourne]

Italo Vignoli wrote:

On 10/02/16 20:10, Larry Gusaas wrote:

LibreOffice 5.1.0 doesn't find the installed Java on my Mac (MacBook Pro
Retina, OS X version 10.11.3). Had to reinstall LibreOffice 5.0.4.


Funny, I have been using LibreOffice 5.1 since Beta 1 on two different
MacBooks without any issue. Only if I use a wizard LibreOffice asks for
Java, otherwise the program runs fine (no Java installed on one Mac). I
will look if anyone has filed a bug.


I think you need to install 32-bit or 64-bit Java as appropriate to 
match LibreOffice. You can install both on a 64-bit system, so that both 
32-bit and 64-bit applications can use Java.


Wasn't there something a while back about LibreOffice on Mac not 
recognising Java 8 unless Java 7 was also installed, or something like 
that? I don't know if that's still the case; I don't have a Mac so 
haven't followed it closely. From what I recall I think it was a bug in 
Java, not something LibreOffice could do anything about.


Mark.


--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-users] Re: Avery 8167 label printing

[Ken Springer]

On 2/10/16 4:27 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

On 10/02/16 12:01 PM, Ken Springer wrote:

On 2/10/16 8:28 AM, Gary Dale wrote:

On 09/02/16 11:39 PM, Ken Springer wrote:

On 2/9/16 2:23 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

On 09/02/16 03:23 PM, Dave Liesse wrote:







PDF is a great way to exchange documents but it has an interesting print
option (usually) of shrinking to fit the printer margins. If you send a
PDF label set, you need to remind the recipient to print them full size.
I've run into this problem several times where my carefully crafted PDFs
aren't printed the way I designed them.


In this case, IMO, the creator of the PDF should be aware of the 
potential margin issue and set them accordingly.  So far, I've never 
been burned that I know of by using .5" margins except with the top 
margin of the 8167 labels.


So there should be no need for shrink to fit unless we are talking a 
totally different page size.


But it's awful hard to break people's mindset and get them to switch to 
PDF.  "Oh, if we are going to share and work with the same thing, we 
both have to have MS Word."  Or WordPerfect.  Or Lotus' word processor 
in the old days, I can't remember the name.  At one time, this was 
absolutely true.  But it's no longer a mandatory thing with PDF on the 
scene.


There will be situations where where Word, or Excel, or   will 
be required.  But it's because that software is already in use across 
the enterprise.  It's not because it's the only software that will do 
the job.









There used to be a problem with multi-column labels but they seem to
have redone the label specification to correct that. When creating
labels, there is "Format" tab that lets you adjust the label
properties.
In its new incarnation, it is easy to use and gives you exactly
what you
need to adjust the properties of incorrectly specified common label
formats down to 1/100 of an inch.


In the end, I'll probably do this.


You can specify the top margin, label height and vertical pitch (the
last two may be different if there is space between the labels) and do
the same for the left margin, label width and horizontal pitch. They
also allow you to specify the page size and the number of rows and
columns.

If you think a label isn't defined correctly, fix it. Also, file a bug
report so that the developers can fix it for everyone. It's better to
light a candle or two than to curse the darkness.


In this case, the label spec is correct.  Font design will have to
have a factor in this someway too, I suspect.


It shouldn't unless LO calculates the position of the next label
relative to the end of the previous text. It would seem more natural
(and simpler) to calculate in absolute terms.


Upon retrospect, I agree.  But it is something you have to be
cognizant of when designing the label, as it can affect the apparent
vertical centering of text on the label.  Which can effect what you
think may be happening with label output.  In my case, the label
includes a graphic, which is unaffected by text positioning.  Makes it
easy to figure out where the problem is likely to be.

Another overall negative effect of this problem is, you have to ask
yourself, if this is broken, what else in the suite is broken?
Especially if you are using LO to make a living.  Is there another
feature I use in Writer that doesn't work correctly?  What if one or
two functions in the spreadsheet calculate incorrectly?  What if Base
occasionally mangles your data?

I remember years ago when Intel turned out a chip that had an error in
it's math calculations.  It was a rare happening, but when they
finally admitted it publicly, trying to say it wasn't important do to
the rare occurrence, it did not go over well at all!  



I've yet to find software that is perfect (except of course for what I
develop  ;)  ).  Big suites like LO will have the occasional bug but
I've never found one that was more than an annoyance.


It's an annoyance if you can find a workaround.  It's a problem if 
there's no workaround, and it's something you need to get your job done.


And, if it was something I produced, I won't be happy until it's fixed. 
 "Close enough" just doesn't work for me in a lot of cases.




--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 44.0
Thunderbird 38.0.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
 and it's gone!"


--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Avery 8167 label printing

[Gary Dale]

On 10/02/16 10:53 PM, Ken Springer wrote:

On 2/10/16 4:27 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

On 10/02/16 12:01 PM, Ken Springer wrote:

On 2/10/16 8:28 AM, Gary Dale wrote:

On 09/02/16 11:39 PM, Ken Springer wrote:

On 2/9/16 2:23 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

On 09/02/16 03:23 PM, Dave Liesse wrote:







PDF is a great way to exchange documents but it has an interesting print
option (usually) of shrinking to fit the printer margins. If you send a
PDF label set, you need to remind the recipient to print them full size.
I've run into this problem several times where my carefully crafted PDFs
aren't printed the way I designed them.


In this case, IMO, the creator of the PDF should be aware of the 
potential margin issue and set them accordingly.  So far, I've never 
been burned that I know of by using .5" margins except with the top 
margin of the 8167 labels.


So there should be no need for shrink to fit unless we are talking a 
totally different page size.


But it's awful hard to break people's mindset and get them to switch 
to PDF.  "Oh, if we are going to share and work with the same thing, 
we both have to have MS Word."  Or WordPerfect.  Or Lotus' word 
processor in the old days, I can't remember the name. At one time, 
this was absolutely true.  But it's no longer a mandatory thing with 
PDF on the scene.


There will be situations where where Word, or Excel, or  will 
be required.  But it's because that software is already in use across 
the enterprise.  It's not because it's the only software that will do 
the job.


That's not the issue. Sometimes you want something to occupy the full 
page for professional printing but people use their home printers instead.


As for using the same software, that doesn't solve problems if the 
person doesn't have the same fonts installed that you do. The PDF format 
removes the requirement to stick to common fonts.


Similarly the ISO standard Open Document formats that LibreOffice uses 
allow documents to used by other programs, including the M$ ones. They 
may not look the same, but will at least be exchangeable and editable.











There used to be a problem with multi-column labels but they seem to
have redone the label specification to correct that. When creating
labels, there is "Format" tab that lets you adjust the label
properties.
In its new incarnation, it is easy to use and gives you exactly
what you
need to adjust the properties of incorrectly specified common label
formats down to 1/100 of an inch.


In the end, I'll probably do this.


You can specify the top margin, label height and vertical pitch (the
last two may be different if there is space between the labels) 
and do

the same for the left margin, label width and horizontal pitch. They
also allow you to specify the page size and the number of rows and
columns.

If you think a label isn't defined correctly, fix it. Also, file 
a bug
report so that the developers can fix it for everyone. It's 
better to

light a candle or two than to curse the darkness.


In this case, the label spec is correct.  Font design will have to
have a factor in this someway too, I suspect.


It shouldn't unless LO calculates the position of the next label
relative to the end of the previous text. It would seem more natural
(and simpler) to calculate in absolute terms.


Upon retrospect, I agree.  But it is something you have to be
cognizant of when designing the label, as it can affect the apparent
vertical centering of text on the label.  Which can effect what you
think may be happening with label output.  In my case, the label
includes a graphic, which is unaffected by text positioning. Makes it
easy to figure out where the problem is likely to be.

Another overall negative effect of this problem is, you have to ask
yourself, if this is broken, what else in the suite is broken?
Especially if you are using LO to make a living.  Is there another
feature I use in Writer that doesn't work correctly?  What if one or
two functions in the spreadsheet calculate incorrectly?  What if Base
occasionally mangles your data?

I remember years ago when Intel turned out a chip that had an error in
it's math calculations.  It was a rare happening, but when they
finally admitted it publicly, trying to say it wasn't important do to
the rare occurrence, it did not go over well at all! 



I've yet to find software that is perfect (except of course for what I
develop  ;)  ).  Big suites like LO will have the occasional bug but
I've never found one that was more than an annoyance.


It's an annoyance if you can find a workaround.  It's a problem if 
there's no workaround, and it's something you need to get your job done.


And, if it was something I produced, I won't be happy until it's 
fixed.  "Close enough" just doesn't work for me in a lot of cases.


You did find a workaround though. As for perfection, the universe 
wouldn't exist if there was such a thing.


--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org

[libreoffice-users] Simultaneous PDF Export (from a spreadsheet database -- based on validity).

[EXU]

Good day.

Current scenario:
*1. Database.*
I have a spreadsheet (Sheet 1) containing the information

*2. Template (quote form).*
There is a form, with a specific layout that uses:
 a- Validity > Cell Range > First Column from Sheet 1
 b- For the fields (date, description, etc.) the function
=IFERROR(VLOOKUP($B$4,'Sheet1'.A2:E89,*5*,0),0) is inserted (FYI the *5*
changes depending on the column required from Sheet 1-- date is 5)

*3. PDF Export Macro.*
The following macro (inserted in an action button) is used to export to PDF:


/sub ExportPDF
Dim oDescriptor

rem define variables
dim document   as object
dim dispatcher as object

rem get access to the document
document   = ThisComponent.CurrentController.Frame
dispatcher = createUnoService("com.sun.star.frame.DispatchHelper")
oSheets = ThisComponent.getSheets()
oSheet3 = oSheets.getByIndex(2)

rem name of the file
filename = oSheet1.getCellRangeByName("B4").getString()

rem --
rem Prepare for PDF export
dim args1(1) as new com.sun.star.beans.PropertyValue
args1(0).Name = "URL"
args1(0).Value = "file:///C:/Users/rb/Desktop/Special%20Project/Joe%20Doe/"&
oSheet3.getCellRangeByName("B4").getString()&".pdf"
args1(1).Name = "FilterName"
args1(1).Value = "calc_pdf_Export"

dispatcher.executeDispatch(document, ".uno:ExportDirectToPDF", "", 0,
args1())/


end sub

Everything working great here: the quote is exported to PDF using the name
of cell B4, which is the cell containing the cell range from Sheet 1. Every
time I click on the drop-down box (validity) the information (date, etc.)
changes based on Sheet 1.

*Question:*
Is it possible to create a macro that exports simultaneously all of the
quotes (in PDF) according to the validity cell range?
By doing this, I wouldn´t have to click on the drop-down box each time I
want to get the next set of information. 

*The desired result would be that with one single click on the "push
button", 88 PDF files would be exported (with the correspondent information
and file names)
*

I disabled the ExportPDF macro because it won´t work anyway, but here is the
file:

Example.ods   


On the sheet labeled as "Print", go to cell B4 for the drop-down box.

Any comments?

Thanks!









--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Simultaneous-PDF-Export-from-a-spreadsheet-database-based-on-validity-tp4174861.html
Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] UNSUBSCRIBE

[Piet van Oostrum]

Steve Gifford wrote:

 > PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME
 > 
See the bottom of each message:

To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
WWW: http://pietvanoostrum.com/
PGP key: [8DAE142BE17999C4]


-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-users] UNSUBSCRIBE

[Steve Gifford]

PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME

-- 
All the best, Steve
kindnesspoems.blogspot.com

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-users] Re: Avery 8167 label printing

[Ken Springer]

On 2/10/16 1:18 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:

Ken Springer wrote

I remember years ago when Intel turned out a chip that had an error in
it's math calculations.  It was a rare happening, but when they
finally admitted it publicly, trying to say it wasn't important do to
the rare occurrence, it did not go over well at all!  



About 25 years ago, I was the treasurer of my children's preschool. I
created a spreadsheet to calculate paychecks, and I found that the
paycheck was consistently off by .01 (a penny). It drove me nuts. As it
turned out, one part of the calculation required the division of 28 by
7, which every third grader knows is 4. Well, my spreadsheet gave an
answer of 3.99_. By itself, it wasn't a big problem, but later
in the chain of operations, the 3.9_ produced a result that rounded
*down* to the nearest penny instead of *up*, which it would have done if
the 28/7 had resulted in 4 instead of 3.. I complained to a computer
friend of mine who tried to explain that the computer's answer was more
"precise" than my mental math of 28/7=4. I didn't buy it.


I wouldn't buy it either.  I don't care how someone tries to explain it, 
the result is wrong.  Pure and simple.  Just try pulling that response 
on a grade school teacher, and you're going home with an "F".


How something can be more "precise" than the correct answer is beyond me.

I can see the future now...  "Captain Kirk, sorry, we missed the planet 
by 10 million miles.  Our computer divided 28 by 7 and says the answer 
is 3.9..."LOL


Wrong is wrong, I don't care how somebody wishes to justify it.


I learned a valuable lesson in blindly accepting a computer's
calculation simply because it was made by a computer.

Virgil




--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 44.0
Thunderbird 38.0.1
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
 and it's gone!"


--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-users] Re: Avery 8167 label printing

[Ken Springer]

On 2/10/16 3:19 PM, libreoffice-ml.mbou...@spamgourmet.com wrote:

Ken Springer wrote:

On 2/10/16 8:28 AM, Gary Dale wrote:

On 09/02/16 11:39 PM, Ken Springer wrote:

On 2/9/16 2:23 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

On 09/02/16 03:23 PM, Dave Liesse wrote:

I've never had any luck with any of the Avery templates I've tried
(although my problem has been mostly with left-to-right adjustments
rather than top-to-bottom).  I finally just got in the habit of
setting my paragraph position as 1/8" into the label; fooling with the
template specs didn't do the job.




I've occasionally found problems with the labels but they are minor.
For
small labels, like return-address labels, the print V. Pitch may be a
little off so the labels creep up or down a little as you go down the
page.


I think this could also occur due to printer's paper feed abilities.
In this case, the error is consistent.

Are you referring to the page slipping on the rollers? That would likely
produce inconsistent results. If the labels are simply off consistently,
that would be the top margin. If they vary consistently down that page,
that would be vertical pitch.


Slippage in the rollers is what I was thinking of.

In my case, the error is consistent, so slippage is not problem.

Telling the printer where to actually start the printing appears to be
the issue.  We'll call it the top margin for convenience, but even that
has it's own issues.  Since the driver is TWAIN, the brand of printer
shouldn't make a difference as long as the printer manufacturer doesn't
screw up the driver.

Time to "expand our horizons".  (Sounds like a motivational speaker,
doesn't it?   LOL)

LO's built-in template, displayed on the screen, is correct.  The
paper's top margin is .5" on the screen and in real life.  Positioning
of the text is also correct, as displayed on the screen.

Only printing is in error.

Now...  Suppose you are creating X number of label designs for someone
else.  They don't have LO, how to you get the labels to them?  Today, I
think almost everyone's answer would be PDF.


You may already realise, but in case not... Adobe Reader has an option
to "Shrink oversized pages" when printing.


Every PDF reader I've toyed with has  that option for scaling.  Useful 
if you receive something that was created for 11 X 17 paper, and all you 
have is 8.5 X11.  In which case, I would expect a bit of error, not to 
mention difficulty in reading text that may be on the page.



You might not expect that to
do anything when printing an A4 PDF printing onto A4 paper, but it
actually shrinks the page slightly to allow for the non-printable
margins around the page. To get a 1:1 scale print you have to select
"Actual size". It remembers the last setting you use, so you have to
remember to check what's it's set to each time.


I would submit, that the person who created the PDF, should have 
considered non-printable margins.  Which is why I always use margins 
that I'm sure all printers can handle, at least to the best of my knowledge.



Fair enough, but that doesn't work either.  If you create the PDF with
the default template settings, which are correct, the resulting PDF file
is also in error.  I tried it.  Same vertical offset issue.


Is the vertical offset incorrect on screen as well as when printed? When
I first read that, I thought you meant it was wrong on-screen as well,
but from your discussion below it sounds like the PDF is displayed with
the correct margin, but prints with the wrong margin?


If the onscreen display of the margins for 8167 labels is correct, the 
printed output is incorrect, from both LO and PDF.  If the onscreen 
margins are incorrect (to the needed amount of course), the printed 
output is correct, from both LO and PDF.



So you change the top margin, create the PDF, and yep, labels print
correctly.

What's wrong with this?

In the above scenario, the recipient of the PDF may/can/will look at the
labels before printing them, to see if they are correct.  (If they
don't, they aren't doing their job.)  Guess what?  They'll see the top
margin error, more easily spotted if you have a vertical ruler option.
If you send a PDF based on the correct template (the one supplied by
LO), the printing will be off.  If you send a PDF based on a modified
template, the visual display on the screen will be off.


So if you have a PDF which displays on screen with the correct margin,
but when printed it has the wrong margin?


Yep.   


To get it to print with the
correct margin, you have to produce a PDF which displays with an
incorrect margin?


Yep.

< Assuming you're printing the PDF at actual size, that

would suggest the printer or its driver is in error (unless your PDF
reader has the same issue as LibreOffice). Once LibreOffice has created
a PDF, it has nothing to do with any difference between how the PDF
reader displays and prints it.


Unless the error is embedded in the PDF.   :-)

I hadn't considered the printer driver to be the problem, since 

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Avery 8167 label printing

[Virgil Arrington]

Thanks for the explanation. Oddly enough, it makes some sense, even to 
my non-techy brain. What I found interesting was that, in the 
spreadsheet, I got the "wrong" 3., but I wrote a simple BASIC 
program on my beloved Tandy Model 100 and got the "correct" answer of 4. 
I was excited to see that my little first generation laptop gave better 
results than my state of the art (for the time) PC.


Virgil


On 02/10/2016 06:01 PM, libreoffice-ml.mbou...@spamgourmet.com wrote:

Virgil Arrington wrote:

Ken Springer wrote

I remember years ago when Intel turned out a chip that had an error in
it's math calculations.  It was a rare happening, but when they
finally admitted it publicly, trying to say it wasn't important do to
the rare occurrence, it did not go over well at all! 



About 25 years ago, I was the treasurer of my children's preschool. I
created a spreadsheet to calculate paychecks, and I found that the
paycheck was consistently off by .01 (a penny). It drove me nuts. As it
turned out, one part of the calculation required the division of 28 by
7, which every third grader knows is 4. Well, my spreadsheet gave an
answer of 3.99_. By itself, it wasn't a big problem, but later
in the chain of operations, the 3.9_ produced a result that rounded
*down* to the nearest penny instead of *up*, which it would have done if
the 28/7 had resulted in 4 instead of 3.. I complained to a computer
friend of mine who tried to explain that the computer's answer was more
"precise" than my mental math of 28/7=4. I didn't buy it.


I wouldn't say 3.999... is more precise, but it sounds like your 
problem is related to the precision of floating-point numbers. 1/7, 
when represented in binary, is a recurring fraction 0.001001001... 
(like how 1/3 is 0.... in decimal), so cannot be represented 
precisely in binary with a finite number of bits (just as you can add 
as many '3's as you like to 0., but it still doesn't exactly 
represent 1/3).


I don't think there should be a problem with calculating 28/7 = 4 as a 
single floating point operation, but if the calculation was done 
(either in the way your formula was expressed or the way the 
application processed it) as (1/7)*28, that may well give a slightly 
inaccurate result due to rounding of the (1/7). A bit like calculating 
1/3 to 0.333, then multiplying that by 12 to get 3.996 instead of 4. 
If using a round-down function, and the result was slightly less than 
4, it would round down to 3. I guess the solution was to round to the 
nearest integer.



I learned a valuable lesson in blindly accepting a computer's
calculation simply because it was made by a computer.


Indeed. They do exactly what they're told by a combination of 
hardware, software and user input - but for various reasons that might 
not amount to what you thought you were telling it to do.


Mark.





--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Avery 8167 label printing

[Gary Dale]

On 10/02/16 12:01 PM, Ken Springer wrote:

On 2/10/16 8:28 AM, Gary Dale wrote:

On 09/02/16 11:39 PM, Ken Springer wrote:

On 2/9/16 2:23 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

On 09/02/16 03:23 PM, Dave Liesse wrote:

I've never had any luck with any of the Avery templates I've tried
(although my problem has been mostly with left-to-right adjustments
rather than top-to-bottom).  I finally just got in the habit of
setting my paragraph position as 1/8" into the label; fooling with 
the

template specs didn't do the job.




I've occasionally found problems with the labels but they are 
minor. For

small labels, like return-address labels, the print V. Pitch may be a
little off so the labels creep up or down a little as you go down the
page.


I think this could also occur due to printer's paper feed abilities.
In this case, the error is consistent.

Are you referring to the page slipping on the rollers? That would likely
produce inconsistent results. If the labels are simply off consistently,
that would be the top margin. If they vary consistently down that page,
that would be vertical pitch.


Slippage in the rollers is what I was thinking of.

In my case, the error is consistent, so slippage is not problem.

Telling the printer where to actually start the printing appears to be 
the issue.  We'll call it the top margin for convenience, but even 
that has it's own issues.  Since the driver is TWAIN, the brand of 
printer shouldn't make a difference as long as the printer 
manufacturer doesn't screw up the driver.


Time to "expand our horizons".  (Sounds like a motivational speaker, 
doesn't it?   LOL)


LO's built-in template, displayed on the screen, is correct.  The 
paper's top margin is .5" on the screen and in real life. Positioning 
of the text is also correct, as displayed on the screen.


Only printing is in error.

Now...  Suppose you are creating X number of label designs for someone 
else.  They don't have LO, how to you get the labels to them?  Today, 
I think almost everyone's answer would be PDF.


Fair enough, but that doesn't work either.  If you create the PDF with 
the default template settings, which are correct, the resulting PDF 
file is also in error.  I tried it.  Same vertical offset issue.


So you change the top margin, create the PDF, and yep, labels print 
correctly.


What's wrong with this?

In the above scenario, the recipient of the PDF may/can/will look at 
the labels before printing them, to see if they are correct. (If they 
don't, they aren't doing their job.)  Guess what? They'll see the top 
margin error, more easily spotted if you have a vertical ruler option. 
If you send a PDF based on the correct template (the one supplied by 
LO), the printing will be off.  If you send a PDF based on a modified 
template, the visual display on the screen will be off.


In this situation, LO falls on its face in providing WYSIWYG... What 
You See Is What You Get.  One of the principals in modern computers. 
What is displayed on the screen is what is supposed to come out of the 
printer or other device.


This is no different than if you had the font set for 12 points, but 
the output to either screen or printer was 16 points.  Not a good 
thing in the long run.



PDF is a great way to exchange documents but it has an interesting print 
option (usually) of shrinking to fit the printer margins. If you send a 
PDF label set, you need to remind the recipient to print them full size. 
I've run into this problem several times where my carefully crafted PDFs 
aren't printed the way I designed them.








There used to be a problem with multi-column labels but they seem to
have redone the label specification to correct that. When creating
labels, there is "Format" tab that lets you adjust the label 
properties.
In its new incarnation, it is easy to use and gives you exactly 
what you

need to adjust the properties of incorrectly specified common label
formats down to 1/100 of an inch.


In the end, I'll probably do this.


You can specify the top margin, label height and vertical pitch (the
last two may be different if there is space between the labels) and do
the same for the left margin, label width and horizontal pitch. They
also allow you to specify the page size and the number of rows and
columns.

If you think a label isn't defined correctly, fix it. Also, file a bug
report so that the developers can fix it for everyone. It's better to
light a candle or two than to curse the darkness.


In this case, the label spec is correct.  Font design will have to
have a factor in this someway too, I suspect.


It shouldn't unless LO calculates the position of the next label
relative to the end of the previous text. It would seem more natural
(and simpler) to calculate in absolute terms.


Upon retrospect, I agree.  But it is something you have to be 
cognizant of when designing the label, as it can affect the apparent 
vertical centering of text on the label.  Which can effect what you 
think may be 

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Avery 8167 label printing

[libreoffice-ml . mbourne]

Virgil Arrington wrote:

Ken Springer wrote

I remember years ago when Intel turned out a chip that had an error in
it's math calculations.  It was a rare happening, but when they
finally admitted it publicly, trying to say it wasn't important do to
the rare occurrence, it did not go over well at all!  



About 25 years ago, I was the treasurer of my children's preschool. I
created a spreadsheet to calculate paychecks, and I found that the
paycheck was consistently off by .01 (a penny). It drove me nuts. As it
turned out, one part of the calculation required the division of 28 by
7, which every third grader knows is 4. Well, my spreadsheet gave an
answer of 3.99_. By itself, it wasn't a big problem, but later
in the chain of operations, the 3.9_ produced a result that rounded
*down* to the nearest penny instead of *up*, which it would have done if
the 28/7 had resulted in 4 instead of 3.. I complained to a computer
friend of mine who tried to explain that the computer's answer was more
"precise" than my mental math of 28/7=4. I didn't buy it.


I wouldn't say 3.999... is more precise, but it sounds like your 
problem is related to the precision of floating-point numbers. 1/7, when 
represented in binary, is a recurring fraction 0.001001001... (like how 
1/3 is 0.... in decimal), so cannot be represented precisely in 
binary with a finite number of bits (just as you can add as many '3's as 
you like to 0., but it still doesn't exactly represent 1/3).


I don't think there should be a problem with calculating 28/7 = 4 as a 
single floating point operation, but if the calculation was done (either 
in the way your formula was expressed or the way the application 
processed it) as (1/7)*28, that may well give a slightly inaccurate 
result due to rounding of the (1/7). A bit like calculating 1/3 to 
0.333, then multiplying that by 12 to get 3.996 instead of 4. If using a 
round-down function, and the result was slightly less than 4, it would 
round down to 3. I guess the solution was to round to the nearest integer.



I learned a valuable lesson in blindly accepting a computer's
calculation simply because it was made by a computer.


Indeed. They do exactly what they're told by a combination of hardware, 
software and user input - but for various reasons that might not amount 
to what you thought you were telling it to do.


Mark.


--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted