Re: [libreoffice-users] Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK
On 23/02/2014, Alexander Wilms f.alexander.wi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, I already posted this on the LibreOffice Google+ and Facebook pages, but there are probably quite a few people subscibed to this list who are not following either one. Despite the self-generated hype, not every Tom, Dick and Harriet are interested in these social data-collation (sorry media) tools. The UK government plans to move to open standards like ODF and HTML and apparently Microsoft didn't know that people can voice their opinions on the proposal since January and started to spread some FUD once again a few days ago. If you think that truly open standards are a better solution than OOXML, then it'd be beneficial if you registered on the standards.data.gov.uk page and commented. In 3 days, comments will be closed. Thanks for informing us, but in addition users have to be educated about the benefits of _not_ using LO and an m$ clone and actually promote the odf standard themselves. Continual bug reports about m$ suggest otherwise. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK
On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 01:12:25 +0100, Alexander Wilms wrote If you think that truly open standards are a better solution than OOXML, then it'd be beneficial if you registered on the standards.data.gov.uk page and commented. In 3 days, comments will be closed. Maybe i'm not going to make friends, but OOXML strict actually *is* an open standard. The real problem is, that MS-Office until 2013 was not capable of creating strict files, but wrote OOXML transitional instead (which may - and as a matter of fact always did - contain proprietary stuff). So almost all OOXML files out in the wild today are in fact not 'real' OOXML but just proprietary, legacy office formats encoded in an XML-structure. However, OOXML - without distinguishing between the two flavors - was advertised by MS as being 'open' and you shall blame them for this. Of course it was a marketing-move to ship Office for years with incomplete, de-facto proprietary export filter, while claiming to be open... But nevertheless OOXML in it's 'pure' form is an ISO certified open standard (and not even a bad one as far as i can tell), and for the sake of open formats: if we can't get rid of MS Office then we should at least promote the usage of OOXML strict whenever possible. I still believe that ODF is the better choice though, because of its longer history as open standard, and i would of course appreciate it if MS would include proper import and export filters (they already had very good support in Office 2010, sadly they did not include it in Office 2012 for Mac - the reasons for this being highly speculative IMHO). cu Stephan -- Open WebMail Project (http://openwebmail.org) -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK
Stephan Weinberger wrote: Maybe i'm not going to make friends, but OOXML strict actually *is* an open standard. The real problem is, that MS-Office until 2013 was not capable of creating strict files, but wrote OOXML transitional instead (which may - and as a matter of fact always did - contain proprietary stuff). So almost all OOXML files out in the wild today are in fact not 'real' OOXML but just proprietary, legacy office formats encoded in an XML-structure. IIRC, that strict OOXML, as rammed through ISO, contains a lot of proprietary blobs. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK
Hi :) The strict vs transitional issue really doesn't bode well for future implementations of the OOXML format. Who would there be to notice when MS's implementation again deviates from strict? Is anyone or any organisation sufficiently well-versed in the immensely wordy ISO standard for OOXML and would they notice deviations? Is there anything to stop MS from doing an extended implementation? Would there be anything to force them to properly document any such extended bits? Was there any adequate documentation of the deviations between transitional and strict? I think the whole issue about transitional vs strict is a question of semantics to make promises that the future will be different when there is nothing to ensure it will be so = except the promises of a single profit-making company which would be ill-served if it did fulfil it's promises and which doesn't seem to have fulfilled such promises in the past. Does anyone have good links to the court-case about the Rtf format? ODF is set by a committee and has a history of real interoperability between different programs made by different companies and organisation. The documentation set as the ISO standard is apparently considerably shorter and easier to read. Where programs fail to live up to the standard it's relatively easy to see that and to see that other programs are able to use that part of the standard. Regards from Tom :) On 23 February 2014 20:41, James Knott james.kn...@rogers.com wrote: Stephan Weinberger wrote: Maybe i'm not going to make friends, but OOXML strict actually *is* an open standard. The real problem is, that MS-Office until 2013 was not capable of creating strict files, but wrote OOXML transitional instead (which may - and as a matter of fact always did - contain proprietary stuff). So almost all OOXML files out in the wild today are in fact not 'real' OOXML but just proprietary, legacy office formats encoded in an XML-structure. IIRC, that strict OOXML, as rammed through ISO, contains a lot of proprietary blobs. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK
Hi everyone, I already posted this on the LibreOffice Google+ and Facebook pages, but there are probably quite a few people subscibed to this list who are not following either one. The UK government plans to move to open standards like ODF and HTML and apparently Microsoft didn't know that people can voice their opinions on the proposal since January and started to spread some FUD once again a few days ago. If you think that truly open standards are a better solution than OOXML, then it'd be beneficial if you registered on the standards.data.gov.uk page and commented. In 3 days, comments will be closed. Proposal: http://standards.data.gov.uk/proposal/sharing-collaborating-government-documents?page=1 Commentary: http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/simon-says/2014/02/open-standards-still-need-your-vote/index.htm MS blog: http://blogs.technet.com/b/mpn_uk/archive/2014/02/19/government-open-standards-consultation-Hwill-likely-impact-all-of-us-make-sure-your-voice-is-heard-by-26th-february.aspx#pi71658=2 http://blogs.technet.com/b/mpn_uk/archive/2014/02/19/government-open-standards-consultation-will-likely-impact-all-of-us-make-sure-your-voice-is-heard-by-26th-february.aspx#pi71658=2? Thanks, Alex -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
