Re: [libreoffice-users] Goodbye to Open Office (maybe?)
Yes, but there is in the open source community a lack of the kind of
open source that brought to the world such things as Linux and
Libre office..its called need..
need has a market.. if i were running the open source.. i would give
some real thought to getting potential users to vote for a product
or a product change.. in advance.. the build it they will come does
not work well.. instead should me it is needed there we will
build it..
For example a few years back if anyone had said I will develop
an alternative spreadsheet to compete with the vendors our here,
as soon as 100,000 send in $20 each..
That money would have been 100,000 sales.. and each person
would be tell developers what it is that got their $20 bucks.
Right now if someone were do that with CAD, Libre Cad lacks so
much, it is hard to call it competitive, I mean it cannot really
compete with the commercial cad ware out there
I would bet 500,000 people would any up $20 around the globe.
Make a product on a dedicated os, so that the os is never a problem
its invisible to the cad and it will reduce commercial cad to about the
level of commercial word processors.
the market must pay, but there is no need for a vendor to
discover a market need, then get a patent, lobby the government
and then get to government to make it a monopoly so the
vendor can force the market to pay
Linux was a project in which everyone that could participated..
because the need for such a product was extremely in need.
On Sun, 9/4/16, toki <toki.kant...@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Goodbye to Open Office (maybe?)
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Sunday, September 4, 2016, 8:49 AM
On 03/09/2016 11:50, CVAlkan wrote:
> Is this a case of "Where there's smoke ..."
Pretty much since AOo entered the Apache fold, it has had
problems.
Some were major, such as no release manager for months. Some
were minor,
such as an inability to produce documentation.
As far as actual retirement goes, and being kicked into the
Attic goes.
That won't happen this year.
However, the following quotes from https://db.apache.org/newproject.html
apply to all Apache Projects, especially podlings:
* «Orphaned products. Products which have lost their
corporate sponsor
(for whatever reason) do not make good candidates. These
products will
lack a development community and won't have the support
needed to
succeed under the DB umbrella»;
* «Reliance on salaried developers. DB has strong ties to
the business
community. Many of our developers are encouraged by their
employers to
work open source projects as part of their regular job. We
feel that
this is a Good Thing, and corporations should be entitled to
contribute
to open source, same as anyone else. However, we are wary of
products
which rely strongly on developers who only work on open
source products
when they are paid to do so. A product at DB must continue
to exist
beyond the participation of individual volunteers. We
believe the best
indicator of success is when developers volunteer their own
time to work
open source projects.»
When AOo went into incubation at AFS, it was an orphaned
project, with
an over-reliance of paid developers from IBM. When IBM
pulled the plug
on AOo development, AOo development came to standstill.
As such, the long term prognosis of AOo is not good.
Gilles wrote:
>Apache has taken an unreasonable amount of time to clean
up all the
code - in particular licenses
The initial code clean up was specifically to verify the
providence of
each line of code:
* That the line of code was correctly licensed;
* That The Apache Software Foundation had the legal right to
use the code;
* That The Apache Software Foundation had the moral right to
use the code;
This type of code verification always takes a long time ---
as in one
hour per line of code.
The net result is that if there are any legal challenges to
the code,
ASF can say: "Here is the code in question, and here is our
legal right
to use the code".
Two things that the code clean up did not do were:
* Identify algorithms that might infringe upon existing
patents. Under
current US Patent Law, this is extremely
counter-productive;
* Identify algorithms that infringe upon copyright, as
defined in Oracle
v. Google, (United States Court of Appeals for the Federal
Circuit,
2013-1021, 1022, Decided: May 9, 2014. SCOTUS 14-410
2015-06-29 Petition
Denied.){In fairness to ASF, this definition of copyright
was
unexpected. IMNSHO, it was an incredibly bad decision on the
part of the
court --- on a par with the Appellate Court ruling that if
you buy a DVD
in Colorado, you buy the copyright for the DVD.
>It would be a good thing FOR EVERYBODY if Apache decided
to officially
call it quits on OOo,
Right now, there are a dozen things t
Re: [libreoffice-users] Goodbye to Open Office (maybe?)
On 03/09/2016 11:50, CVAlkan wrote:
> Is this a case of "Where there's smoke ..."
Pretty much since AOo entered the Apache fold, it has had problems.
Some were major, such as no release manager for months. Some were minor,
such as an inability to produce documentation.
As far as actual retirement goes, and being kicked into the Attic goes.
That won't happen this year.
However, the following quotes from https://db.apache.org/newproject.html
apply to all Apache Projects, especially podlings:
* «Orphaned products. Products which have lost their corporate sponsor
(for whatever reason) do not make good candidates. These products will
lack a development community and won't have the support needed to
succeed under the DB umbrella»;
* «Reliance on salaried developers. DB has strong ties to the business
community. Many of our developers are encouraged by their employers to
work open source projects as part of their regular job. We feel that
this is a Good Thing, and corporations should be entitled to contribute
to open source, same as anyone else. However, we are wary of products
which rely strongly on developers who only work on open source products
when they are paid to do so. A product at DB must continue to exist
beyond the participation of individual volunteers. We believe the best
indicator of success is when developers volunteer their own time to work
open source projects.»
When AOo went into incubation at AFS, it was an orphaned project, with
an over-reliance of paid developers from IBM. When IBM pulled the plug
on AOo development, AOo development came to standstill.
As such, the long term prognosis of AOo is not good.
Gilles wrote:
>Apache has taken an unreasonable amount of time to clean up all the
code - in particular licenses
The initial code clean up was specifically to verify the providence of
each line of code:
* That the line of code was correctly licensed;
* That The Apache Software Foundation had the legal right to use the code;
* That The Apache Software Foundation had the moral right to use the code;
This type of code verification always takes a long time --- as in one
hour per line of code.
The net result is that if there are any legal challenges to the code,
ASF can say: "Here is the code in question, and here is our legal right
to use the code".
Two things that the code clean up did not do were:
* Identify algorithms that might infringe upon existing patents. Under
current US Patent Law, this is extremely counter-productive;
* Identify algorithms that infringe upon copyright, as defined in Oracle
v. Google, (United States Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit,
2013-1021, 1022, Decided: May 9, 2014. SCOTUS 14-410 2015-06-29 Petition
Denied.){In fairness to ASF, this definition of copyright was
unexpected. IMNSHO, it was an incredibly bad decision on the part of the
court --- on a par with the Appellate Court ruling that if you buy a DVD
in Colorado, you buy the copyright for the DVD.
>It would be a good thing FOR EVERYBODY if Apache decided to officially
call it quits on OOo,
Right now, there are a dozen things that AOo can do, that LibO can't do.
These are features and functions that LibO, for various reasons, has
deliberately chosen to not provide. Over time, the number of unique
functions for each program (AOo, EO, LibO, NO) to increase.
>I'll let you imagine the number of unpatched vulnerabilities inside)..
The next release of AOo will fix a known security exploit. I don't know
if that is the one that is in the wild, or not.
###
ODF_Tools has tried to go the Attic on two separate occasions, but
hasn't gotten there yet.
jonathon
--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Goodbye to Open Office (maybe?)
Hello! On 03/09/2016 15:01, Xen wrote: > CVAlkan schreef op 03-09-2016 13:50: >> For those who haven't seen this: >> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/09/openoffice-after-years-of-neglect-could-shut-down/ >> >> Is this a case of "Where there's smoke ..." > > The LibreOffice developers that split off refused to contribute code > under the "Oracle" license and according to the words of Mark > Shuttlworth "made their work hell". (Made the work hell of the > remaining paid Oracle employees). > > Since also LibreOffice was allowed to take code from ApacheOffice but > not in reverse (due to it restrictive license) (LibreOffice had a > license that forbade it from being given back to Apache/Oracle > OpenOffice) any updates only flowed in one way and provided the doom > for OpenOffice. > The LibreOffice software is published under the Mozilla Public License Version 2.0... Not a particularly restrictive license. LO License : https://www.libreoffice.org/about-us/licenses/ MPL 2.0 : https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/MPL/2.0/ In fact it's a great license to enable combining with other software. Now, when Oracle (I used to work there) gave the OOo code to Apache, they were really hoping to kill LO. But to their big surprise (and contrary to all the bullshit I was given by the (at the time) head of software strategy there), LO dit way better than OOo. OOo suffers from many problems, from structural (Apache has taken an unreasonable amount of time to clean up all the code - in particular licenses - but not the actual algorithmics of the app) to project-wise (developers not adhering to the idea, not committed to contributing enough, and as a result, new versions comming out drop by drop, one every year and a half - when LO has new versions every few months or more often). So the good guys here are LO. They're doing great work. They're keeping alive software that Oracle did its best to "not kill" (it was a commitment from Oracle to the European Commission when they acquired Sun)... while still doing its best to make it disappear (they are really upset that they never found a way to make money from it, and that they never could control the community the way thew would have wanted to - case in point, The Document Foundation is the exact opposite of what Oracle wanted to achieve - including limiting sponsorship amounts so that no single entity can claim to have overwhelming financial impact to justify imposing directions to the project). It would be a good thing FOR EVERYBODY if Apache decided to officially call it quits on OOo, and put out one last version that had links for next updates to the LibreOffice web site. Of course they have too much pride to even accept the idea of doing this, so instead, they are leaving their users with software that is terribly outdated (last build 4.1.2 is dated October 28th, 2015, and I'll let you imagine the number of unpatched vulnerabilities inside)... They are pathetic. And dangerous. And dying... Apache Foundation has many much more great projects that they are working on, and doing a great job of keeping active! Gilles --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Goodbye to Open Office (maybe?)
One more reason to contribute occasionally to the Libre office development teams. On Sat, 9/3/16, Xen <l...@xenhideout.nl> wrote: Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Goodbye to Open Office (maybe?) To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Saturday, September 3, 2016, 8:01 AM CVAlkan schreef op 03-09-2016 13:50: > For those who haven't seen this: > > http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/09/openoffice-after-years-of-neglect-could-shut-down/ > > Is this a case of "Where there's smoke ..." The LibreOffice developers that split off refused to contribute code under the "Oracle" license and according to the words of Mark Shuttlworth "made their work hell". (Made the work hell of the remaining paid Oracle employees). Since also LibreOffice was allowed to take code from ApacheOffice but not in reverse (due to it restrictive license) (LibreOffice had a license that forbade it from being given back to Apache/Oracle OpenOffice) any updates only flowed in one way and provided the doom for OpenOffice. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Goodbye to Open Office (maybe?)
On 03.09.2016 13:50, CVAlkan wrote: > For those who haven't seen this: > > http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/09/openoffice-after-years-of-neglect-could-shut-down/ > > Is this a case of "Where there's smoke ..." The short answer is, no. Arstechnica, while being a moderately reasonable source of information, are well known for their sensationalist headlines. Yes, there is a situation that needs to be resolved and the folks at AOO are publicly working hard to find the best solution. However, it is an AOO issue, that is unlikely to have any impact on us, so please let's not degrade ourselves by entering into a meaningless thread of speculation, FUD, misinformation and flame wars. Dave -- -- Please address any reply to the mailing list only. All messages to this noreply address are automatically deleted from the server and will never be read. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Goodbye to Open Office (maybe?)
CVAlkan schreef op 03-09-2016 13:50: For those who haven't seen this: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/09/openoffice-after-years-of-neglect-could-shut-down/ Is this a case of "Where there's smoke ..." The LibreOffice developers that split off refused to contribute code under the "Oracle" license and according to the words of Mark Shuttlworth "made their work hell". (Made the work hell of the remaining paid Oracle employees). Since also LibreOffice was allowed to take code from ApacheOffice but not in reverse (due to it restrictive license) (LibreOffice had a license that forbade it from being given back to Apache/Oracle OpenOffice) any updates only flowed in one way and provided the doom for OpenOffice. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Goodbye to Open Office (maybe?)
For those who haven't seen this: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/09/openoffice-after-years-of-neglect-could-shut-down/ Is this a case of "Where there's smoke ..." -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Goodbye-to-Open-Office-maybe-tp4192506.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
