Re: [libreoffice-users] New design
Hi :) +1 The new one as a feature that people can add if they want to. Then next release as the standard but with a pop-up or something to let people easily swap back to the old UI easily Slowly give it more prominence and people might find the transition easier, maybe. Regards from Tom :) --- On Mon, 28/11/11, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: From: webmaster for Kracked Press Productions webmas...@krackedpress.com Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] New design To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Monday, 28 November, 2011, 21:09 I started with Mainframe editing, since there was no PCs out there. My first two PC/MS DOS based word processors were PC_Write and Wordperfect. Then came Word. So I have seen a lot of systems over the years. We really need to think about the style of the menus, since we really have a large base of users that are using our current menu. We need to be very careful on how we change the menu system. No radical things like MS is now doing with Win 8 and Ubuntu/Unity. We need it to be close enough to the old one that is currently being used so people who now use it, can easily use the new one WITHOUT relearning it. On 11/28/2011 03:01 PM, Udvarias Ur wrote: My experience tells me that there is a /long term/ solution. However, it requires a change in attitude amongst software publishers/developers. Anecdote: About 20 years ago Wordperfect was the dominant word processor on the market. I was going to McGill University and Wordperfect was the university's approved and internally supported word processor. Like most software publishers, the Wordperfect publisherswere not concerned about the UI (user Interface), and concentrated entirely on the functionality. The result was that UI research went screaming ahead while the Wordperfect UI was frozen in time. Finally Wordperfect simply had no choice but to upgrade it's UI. As the UI had been ignored for so long the upgrade was huge. All the 10 fingered 150 word per minute typists complained that they had to learn an entirely new word processor. Worse, their typing speed slowed to a crawl. The only reason that they stuck with Wordperfect was because it was what the university provided, and the only word processor the university supported. The point is that software publishers/developers must change their attitude. The UI is as important a part of the software as anything else, may be more so. Ergo, UI development MUST be continuously on going just like functionality development. That is the ONLY way to avoid the problems being discussed in this thread. Having said that ... I agree with both Quinn Heagy and webmaster for Kracked. In the current circumstances, if a new UI is introduced that is significantly different from the classic one, it MUST be possible change back and forth. I do not agree with webmaster for Kracked that the classic UI must be the default. What MUST be done is to: 1. Allow the user to change back and forth simply and easily, 2. Make information about how to do things in the new UI easily accessible, and (possibly the most important thing of all is) 3. Inform the user, at install time, that: A. there is a new UI, B. that the classic UI is still available, C. the simple and easy way to switch back and forth, D. how to get information about getting things done in the new UI. Neither do I agree with Pedro. He may have a wide screen monitor, however, the install base of old fashioned CRTs is huge. I'd even hazard a guess that if everyone in the world who currently has a CRT monitor was to switch to a wide screen (cost and availability aside) the old CRTs would make a pile tall enough that any self respecting mountaineer would be eager to tackle. (Classic case of Jungian projection.) Udvarias Ur Software Quality Assurance Engineer (retired) On 11-11-28 10:48 AM, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions wrote: With Ubuntu 11.10, it looks like you do not have a choice to go back to the GNOME 2.32[?] desktop like Ubuntu 11.04 did. I just do not want us to have a menu system that is too different. It we can switch between classic and the new design, that would be great, but the classic design needs to be the default. Then there must be an easy way to switch between menu designs. We cannot afford to give our users a reason to dump us. Menu redesign is one issue that bugs users a great deal. If they are use to finding their options in one place and they are use to going to that place in one way, having them relearn how to find options and where they are located will make users not want to use LO. We all hate when things change. I hate to relearn how to do the tasks I use to do one way when it is not that way anymore. I chose to go from Windows to Linux, so
Re: [libreoffice-users] New design
Hi :) Here is a link to a very old article in OMG! Ubuntu!. Rather than just linking to their home page i thought it might be more interesting to have a retrospective look http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/01/libreoffice-3-3-released/ Regards from Tom :) --- On Mon, 28/11/11, doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net wrote: From: doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] New design To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Monday, 28 November, 2011, 19:12 On 11/28/2011 09:26 AM, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions wrote: What is OMGUbuntu!? I know that there were some code changes to make LibreOffice work better with the Unity desktop that Ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10 has as its default desktop. GNOME 3.x is moving towards the way Unity looks, according to what I have read, as well. So could Citrus be a part of that new look and feel that Unity desktop and Win 8 is going to? I hate Unity, and Win 8's desktop seems to be a bad idea that will be a nightmare for Windows users to relearn. On 11/28/2011 09:03 AM, Quinn Heagy wrote: I noticed that the heading on OMGUbuntu! was a new design idea for LibreOffice called Citrus. It mentioned the mailing list, so I signed up. If anyone could give me more info on when and if this new design is going to be implemented, I'd be thankful. If LO becomes like Unity you will surely drive me back to Windows, where I can use WordPerfect, whcih I prefer anyway. --doug -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] New design
On 28/11/2011, doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net wrote: If LO becomes like Unity you will surely drive me back to Windows, where I can use WordPerfect, whcih I prefer anyway. Linux novices via ubuntu: please be aware that ubuntu is not gnu/linux!!! Review the distrowatch web site and realise that there many alternatives to consider. It would be a disappointment to observe ubuntu fans complain, revert to m$ and forget rest of the open source world. As for LO user interface, this demonstrates the power of odf; alternative word processors can be used. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] New design
On 11/29/2011 04:29 AM, e-letter wrote: On 28/11/2011, dougdmcgarr...@optonline.net wrote: If LO becomes like Unity you will surely drive me back to Windows, where I can use WordPerfect, whcih I prefer anyway. Linux novices via ubuntu: please be aware that ubuntu is not gnu/linux!!! Review the distrowatch web site and realise that there many alternatives to consider. It would be a disappointment to observe ubuntu fans complain, revert to m$ and forget rest of the open source world. As for LO user interface, this demonstrates the power of odf; alternative word processors can be used. Knock off the flame - the relative merits of a distro is not the real issue. The issue is how to improve the LO UI. The only reasons Unity and Gnome 3 would be important are lessons that could be used from their experiences. Note Gnome 3 is used on a number distros with acerbic comments by users about wanting classic Gnome. -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] New design
I noticed that the heading on OMGUbuntu! was a new design idea for LibreOffice called Citrus. It mentioned the mailing list, so I signed up. If anyone could give me more info on when and if this new design is going to be implemented, I'd be thankful. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] New design
What is OMGUbuntu!? I know that there were some code changes to make LibreOffice work better with the Unity desktop that Ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10 has as its default desktop. GNOME 3.x is moving towards the way Unity looks, according to what I have read, as well. So could Citrus be a part of that new look and feel that Unity desktop and Win 8 is going to? I hate Unity, and Win 8's desktop seems to be a bad idea that will be a nightmare for Windows users to relearn. On 11/28/2011 09:03 AM, Quinn Heagy wrote: I noticed that the heading on OMGUbuntu! was a new design idea for LibreOffice called Citrus. It mentioned the mailing list, so I signed up. If anyone could give me more info on when and if this new design is going to be implemented, I'd be thankful. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] New design
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/citrus-a-libreoffice-interface-for-today/ That's the post that I was talking about. On Nov 28, 2011, at 9:26 AM, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: What is OMGUbuntu!? I know that there were some code changes to make LibreOffice work better with the Unity desktop that Ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10 has as its default desktop. GNOME 3.x is moving towards the way Unity looks, according to what I have read, as well. So could Citrus be a part of that new look and feel that Unity desktop and Win 8 is going to? I hate Unity, and Win 8's desktop seems to be a bad idea that will be a nightmare for Windows users to relearn. On 11/28/2011 09:03 AM, Quinn Heagy wrote: I noticed that the heading on OMGUbuntu! was a new design idea for LibreOffice called Citrus. It mentioned the mailing list, so I signed up. If anyone could give me more info on when and if this new design is going to be implemented, I'd be thankful. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] New design
The big thing we need to learn from current desktop design changes, is the fact that if the redesigns are too radical or too much different from what users are use to, then it will turn users away from our product. The change from MSO's old menu design to the new one is something that caused users issues and was a concern for IT departments to be able to handle the tech calls asking for help finding where all their normal menus went to. If LO changes too much from the traditional look, then we will have the same problem. If there is a change in menu look and feel, then it needs to be a slow one. People are dumping Ubuntu to go to Mint, due to Unity's change of the way their classic desktop was used. IT was too radical of a change for many users. MS is going to have the same issue with the way Win 8 is designed. We must not change too much too soon. Our users will not want to have to relearn how to use LO. I will not like to relearn how to use LO. One of our early selling points for OOo and LO over MSO 2007, was the fact that MSO changed the way their menus were used. We had a more classic menu system that was easier to use than MSO 2007. We were the easier package[s] to use. That was what got some of my users to switch to OOo back then. They did not like the change that MSO had for their menus and other look and feel issues. We do not want to become the same thing. We do not want LO users go to back to OOo because we changed the look and feel of LO where it is no longer easy to use. On 11/28/2011 09:35 AM, Quinn Heagy wrote: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/citrus-a-libreoffice-interface-for-today/ That's the post that I was talking about. On Nov 28, 2011, at 9:26 AM, webmaster for Kracked Press Productionswebmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: What is OMGUbuntu!? I know that there were some code changes to make LibreOffice work better with the Unity desktop that Ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10 has as its default desktop. GNOME 3.x is moving towards the way Unity looks, according to what I have read, as well. So could Citrus be a part of that new look and feel that Unity desktop and Win 8 is going to? I hate Unity, and Win 8's desktop seems to be a bad idea that will be a nightmare for Windows users to relearn. On 11/28/2011 09:03 AM, Quinn Heagy wrote: I noticed that the heading on OMGUbuntu! was a new design idea for LibreOffice called Citrus. It mentioned the mailing list, so I signed up. If anyone could give me more info on when and if this new design is going to be implemented, I'd be thankful. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] New design
I think a good way would be to have the user able to change between a classic and a new look. Also, with Windows 8 - it looks pretty much the same as Windows 7 for a normal desktop. It has the new look for touch enabled computers, but they can still use the old look. If a user needs to get some work done in a good amount of time, then they can use the classic look, and just mess around with the new look when they have free time. They could then choose whichever look they wanted to use. On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 10:16 AM, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: The big thing we need to learn from current desktop design changes, is the fact that if the redesigns are too radical or too much different from what users are use to, then it will turn users away from our product. The change from MSO's old menu design to the new one is something that caused users issues and was a concern for IT departments to be able to handle the tech calls asking for help finding where all their normal menus went to. If LO changes too much from the traditional look, then we will have the same problem. If there is a change in menu look and feel, then it needs to be a slow one. People are dumping Ubuntu to go to Mint, due to Unity's change of the way their classic desktop was used. IT was too radical of a change for many users. MS is going to have the same issue with the way Win 8 is designed. We must not change too much too soon. Our users will not want to have to relearn how to use LO. I will not like to relearn how to use LO. One of our early selling points for OOo and LO over MSO 2007, was the fact that MSO changed the way their menus were used. We had a more classic menu system that was easier to use than MSO 2007. We were the easier package[s] to use. That was what got some of my users to switch to OOo back then. They did not like the change that MSO had for their menus and other look and feel issues. We do not want to become the same thing. We do not want LO users go to back to OOo because we changed the look and feel of LO where it is no longer easy to use. On 11/28/2011 09:35 AM, Quinn Heagy wrote: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/**2011/11/citrus-a-libreoffice-** interface-for-today/http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/citrus-a-libreoffice-interface-for-today/ That's the post that I was talking about. On Nov 28, 2011, at 9:26 AM, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions webmaster@**krackedpress.com webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: What is OMGUbuntu!? I know that there were some code changes to make LibreOffice work better with the Unity desktop that Ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10 has as its default desktop. GNOME 3.x is moving towards the way Unity looks, according to what I have read, as well. So could Citrus be a part of that new look and feel that Unity desktop and Win 8 is going to? I hate Unity, and Win 8's desktop seems to be a bad idea that will be a nightmare for Windows users to relearn. On 11/28/2011 09:03 AM, Quinn Heagy wrote: I noticed that the heading on OMGUbuntu! was a new design idea for LibreOffice called Citrus. It mentioned the mailing list, so I signed up. If anyone could give me more info on when and if this new design is going to be implemented, I'd be thankful. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+help@global.libreoffice.** org users%2bh...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/**get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-** unsubscribe/http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/** Netiquette http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.**libreoffice.org/global/users/http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+help@global.libreoffice.** org users%2bh...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/**get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-** unsubscribe/http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/** Netiquette http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.**libreoffice.org/global/users/http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Quinn Heagy http://quinnheagy.com -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] New design
With Ubuntu 11.10, it looks like you do not have a choice to go back to the GNOME 2.32[?] desktop like Ubuntu 11.04 did. I just do not want us to have a menu system that is too different. It we can switch between classic and the new design, that would be great, but the classic design needs to be the default. Then there must be an easy way to switch between menu designs. We cannot afford to give our users a reason to dump us. Menu redesign is one issue that bugs users a great deal. If they are use to finding their options in one place and they are use to going to that place in one way, having them relearn how to find options and where they are located will make users not want to use LO. We all hate when things change. I hate to relearn how to do the tasks I use to do one way when it is not that way anymore. I chose to go from Windows to Linux, so things change. Yet, I would not have that choice if LO changes their menu structure. I like it the way it is now. On 11/28/2011 10:23 AM, Quinn Heagy wrote: I think a good way would be to have the user able to change between a classic and a new look. Also, with Windows 8 - it looks pretty much the same as Windows 7 for a normal desktop. It has the new look for touch enabled computers, but they can still use the old look. If a user needs to get some work done in a good amount of time, then they can use the classic look, and just mess around with the new look when they have free time. They could then choose whichever look they wanted to use. On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 10:16 AM, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: The big thing we need to learn from current desktop design changes, is the fact that if the redesigns are too radical or too much different from what users are use to, then it will turn users away from our product. The change from MSO's old menu design to the new one is something that caused users issues and was a concern for IT departments to be able to handle the tech calls asking for help finding where all their normal menus went to. If LO changes too much from the traditional look, then we will have the same problem. If there is a change in menu look and feel, then it needs to be a slow one. People are dumping Ubuntu to go to Mint, due to Unity's change of the way their classic desktop was used. IT was too radical of a change for many users. MS is going to have the same issue with the way Win 8 is designed. We must not change too much too soon. Our users will not want to have to relearn how to use LO. I will not like to relearn how to use LO. One of our early selling points for OOo and LO over MSO 2007, was the fact that MSO changed the way their menus were used. We had a more classic menu system that was easier to use than MSO 2007. We were the easier package[s] to use. That was what got some of my users to switch to OOo back then. They did not like the change that MSO had for their menus and other look and feel issues. We do not want to become the same thing. We do not want LO users go to back to OOo because we changed the look and feel of LO where it is no longer easy to use. On 11/28/2011 09:35 AM, Quinn Heagy wrote: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/**2011/11/citrus-a-libreoffice-** interface-for-today/http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/citrus-a-libreoffice-interface-for-today/ That's the post that I was talking about. On Nov 28, 2011, at 9:26 AM, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions webmaster@**krackedpress.comwebmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: What is OMGUbuntu!? I know that there were some code changes to make LibreOffice work better with the Unity desktop that Ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10 has as its default desktop. GNOME 3.x is moving towards the way Unity looks, according to what I have read, as well. So could Citrus be a part of that new look and feel that Unity desktop and Win 8 is going to? I hate Unity, and Win 8's desktop seems to be a bad idea that will be a nightmare for Windows users to relearn. On 11/28/2011 09:03 AM, Quinn Heagy wrote: I noticed that the heading on OMGUbuntu! was a new design idea for LibreOffice called Citrus. It mentioned the mailing list, so I signed up. If anyone could give me more info on when and if this new design is going to be implemented, I'd be thankful. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+help@global.libreoffice.** orgusers%2bh...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/**get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-** unsubscribe/http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/** Netiquettehttp://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.**libreoffice.org/global/users/http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to:
Re: [libreoffice-users] New design
On 11/28/2011 10:23 AM, Quinn Heagy wrote: I think a good way would be to have the user able to change between a classic and a new look. Also, with Windows 8 - it looks pretty much the same as Windows 7 for a normal desktop. It has the new look for touch enabled computers, but they can still use the old look. If a user needs to get some work done in a good amount of time, then they can use the classic look, and just mess around with the new look when they have free time. They could then choose whichever look they wanted to use. I problem with Unity/Gnome 3/Windows 8 is that the default look is the new look not the old, staid look that users are comfortable with. Since the changes were fairly radical for each many users were not happy because they could not use the old way without major headaches. Personally I am not fond of Unity and am warming to Gnome 3 (Mint has a very interesting implementation that combines both the old and new. On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 10:16 AM, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: The big thing we need to learn from current desktop design changes, is the fact that if the redesigns are too radical or too much different from what users are use to, then it will turn users away from our product. The change from MSO's old menu design to the new one is something that caused users issues and was a concern for IT departments to be able to handle the tech calls asking for help finding where all their normal menus went to. If LO changes too much from the traditional look, then we will have the same problem. If there is a change in menu look and feel, then it needs to be a slow one. People are dumping Ubuntu to go to Mint, due to Unity's change of the way their classic desktop was used. IT was too radical of a change for many users. MS is going to have the same issue with the way Win 8 is designed. We must not change too much too soon. Our users will not want to have to relearn how to use LO. I will not like to relearn how to use LO. One of our early selling points for OOo and LO over MSO 2007, was the fact that MSO changed the way their menus were used. We had a more classic menu system that was easier to use than MSO 2007. We were the easier package[s] to use. That was what got some of my users to switch to OOo back then. They did not like the change that MSO had for their menus and other look and feel issues. We do not want to become the same thing. We do not want LO users go to back to OOo because we changed the look and feel of LO where it is no longer easy to use. On 11/28/2011 09:35 AM, Quinn Heagy wrote: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/**2011/11/citrus-a-libreoffice-** interface-for-today/http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/citrus-a-libreoffice-interface-for-today/ That's the post that I was talking about. On Nov 28, 2011, at 9:26 AM, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions webmaster@**krackedpress.comwebmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: What is OMGUbuntu!? I know that there were some code changes to make LibreOffice work better with the Unity desktop that Ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10 has as its default desktop. GNOME 3.x is moving towards the way Unity looks, according to what I have read, as well. So could Citrus be a part of that new look and feel that Unity desktop and Win 8 is going to? I hate Unity, and Win 8's desktop seems to be a bad idea that will be a nightmare for Windows users to relearn. On 11/28/2011 09:03 AM, Quinn Heagy wrote: I noticed that the heading on OMGUbuntu! was a new design idea for LibreOffice called Citrus. It mentioned the mailing list, so I signed up. If anyone could give me more info on when and if this new design is going to be implemented, I'd be thankful. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+help@global.libreoffice.** orgusers%2bh...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/**get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-** unsubscribe/http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/** Netiquettehttp://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.**libreoffice.org/global/users/http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+help@global.libreoffice.** orgusers%2bh...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/**get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-** unsubscribe/http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/** Netiquettehttp://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.**libreoffice.org/global/users/http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- For unsubscribe
Re: [libreoffice-users] New design
On 11/28/2011 09:26 AM, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions wrote: What is OMGUbuntu!? I know that there were some code changes to make LibreOffice work better with the Unity desktop that Ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10 has as its default desktop. GNOME 3.x is moving towards the way Unity looks, according to what I have read, as well. So could Citrus be a part of that new look and feel that Unity desktop and Win 8 is going to? I hate Unity, and Win 8's desktop seems to be a bad idea that will be a nightmare for Windows users to relearn. On 11/28/2011 09:03 AM, Quinn Heagy wrote: I noticed that the heading on OMGUbuntu! was a new design idea for LibreOffice called Citrus. It mentioned the mailing list, so I signed up. If anyone could give me more info on when and if this new design is going to be implemented, I'd be thankful. If LO becomes like Unity you will surely drive me back to Windows, where I can use WordPerfect, whcih I prefer anyway. --doug -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] New design
My experience tells me that there is a /long term/ solution. However, it requires a change in attitude amongst software publishers/developers. Anecdote: About 20 years ago Wordperfect was the dominant word processor on the market. I was going to McGill University and Wordperfect was the university's approved and internally supported word processor. Like most software publishers, the Wordperfect publisherswere not concerned about the UI (user Interface), and concentrated entirely on the functionality. The result was that UI research went screaming ahead while the Wordperfect UI was frozen in time. Finally Wordperfect simply had no choice but to upgrade it's UI. As the UI had been ignored for so long the upgrade was huge. All the 10 fingered 150 word per minute typists complained that they had to learn an entirely new word processor. Worse, their typing speed slowed to a crawl. The only reason that they stuck with Wordperfect was because it was what the university provided, and the only word processor the university supported. The point is that software publishers/developers must change their attitude. The UI is as important a part of the software as anything else, may be more so. Ergo, UI development MUST be continuously on going just like functionality development. That is the ONLY way to avoid the problems being discussed in this thread. Having said that ... I agree with both Quinn Heagy and webmaster for Kracked. In the current circumstances, if a new UI is introduced that is significantly different from the classic one, it MUST be possible change back and forth. I do not agree with webmaster for Kracked that the classic UI must be the default. What MUST be done is to: 1. Allow the user to change back and forth simply and easily, 2. Make information about how to do things in the new UI easily accessible, and (possibly the most important thing of all is) 3. Inform the user, at install time, that: A. there is a new UI, B. that the classic UI is still available, C. the simple and easy way to switch back and forth, D. how to get information about getting things done in the new UI. Neither do I agree with Pedro. He may have a wide screen monitor, however, the install base of old fashioned CRTs is huge. I'd even hazard a guess that if everyone in the world who currently has a CRT monitor was to switch to a wide screen (cost and availability aside) the old CRTs would make a pile tall enough that any self respecting mountaineer would be eager to tackle. (Classic case of Jungian projection.) Udvarias Ur Software Quality Assurance Engineer (retired) On 11-11-28 10:48 AM, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions wrote: With Ubuntu 11.10, it looks like you do not have a choice to go back to the GNOME 2.32[?] desktop like Ubuntu 11.04 did. I just do not want us to have a menu system that is too different. It we can switch between classic and the new design, that would be great, but the classic design needs to be the default. Then there must be an easy way to switch between menu designs. We cannot afford to give our users a reason to dump us. Menu redesign is one issue that bugs users a great deal. If they are use to finding their options in one place and they are use to going to that place in one way, having them relearn how to find options and where they are located will make users not want to use LO. We all hate when things change. I hate to relearn how to do the tasks I use to do one way when it is not that way anymore. I chose to go from Windows to Linux, so things change. Yet, I would not have that choice if LO changes their menu structure. I like it the way it is now. On 11/28/2011 10:23 AM, Quinn Heagy wrote: I think a good way would be to have the user able to change between a classic and a new look. Also, with Windows 8 - it looks pretty much the same as Windows 7 for a normal desktop. It has the new look for touch enabled computers, but they can still use the old look. If a user needs to get some work done in a good amount of time, then they can use the classic look, and just mess around with the new look when they have free time. They could then choose whichever look they wanted to use. On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 10:16 AM, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: The big thing we need to learn from current desktop design changes, is the fact that if the redesigns are too radical or too much different from what users are use to, then it will turn users away from our product. The change from MSO's old menu design to the new one is something that caused users issues and was a concern for IT departments to be able to handle the tech calls asking for help finding where all their normal menus went to. If LO changes too much from the traditional look, then we will have the same problem. If
Re: [libreoffice-users] New design
I started with Mainframe editing, since there was no PCs out there. My first two PC/MS DOS based word processors were PC_Write and Wordperfect. Then came Word. So I have seen a lot of systems over the years. We really need to think about the style of the menus, since we really have a large base of users that are using our current menu. We need to be very careful on how we change the menu system. No radical things like MS is now doing with Win 8 and Ubuntu/Unity. We need it to be close enough to the old one that is currently being used so people who now use it, can easily use the new one WITHOUT relearning it. On 11/28/2011 03:01 PM, Udvarias Ur wrote: My experience tells me that there is a /long term/ solution. However, it requires a change in attitude amongst software publishers/developers. Anecdote: About 20 years ago Wordperfect was the dominant word processor on the market. I was going to McGill University and Wordperfect was the university's approved and internally supported word processor. Like most software publishers, the Wordperfect publisherswere not concerned about the UI (user Interface), and concentrated entirely on the functionality. The result was that UI research went screaming ahead while the Wordperfect UI was frozen in time. Finally Wordperfect simply had no choice but to upgrade it's UI. As the UI had been ignored for so long the upgrade was huge. All the 10 fingered 150 word per minute typists complained that they had to learn an entirely new word processor. Worse, their typing speed slowed to a crawl. The only reason that they stuck with Wordperfect was because it was what the university provided, and the only word processor the university supported. The point is that software publishers/developers must change their attitude. The UI is as important a part of the software as anything else, may be more so. Ergo, UI development MUST be continuously on going just like functionality development. That is the ONLY way to avoid the problems being discussed in this thread. Having said that ... I agree with both Quinn Heagy and webmaster for Kracked. In the current circumstances, if a new UI is introduced that is significantly different from the classic one, it MUST be possible change back and forth. I do not agree with webmaster for Kracked that the classic UI must be the default. What MUST be done is to: 1. Allow the user to change back and forth simply and easily, 2. Make information about how to do things in the new UI easily accessible, and (possibly the most important thing of all is) 3. Inform the user, at install time, that: A. there is a new UI, B. that the classic UI is still available, C. the simple and easy way to switch back and forth, D. how to get information about getting things done in the new UI. Neither do I agree with Pedro. He may have a wide screen monitor, however, the install base of old fashioned CRTs is huge. I'd even hazard a guess that if everyone in the world who currently has a CRT monitor was to switch to a wide screen (cost and availability aside) the old CRTs would make a pile tall enough that any self respecting mountaineer would be eager to tackle. (Classic case of Jungian projection.) Udvarias Ur Software Quality Assurance Engineer (retired) On 11-11-28 10:48 AM, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions wrote: With Ubuntu 11.10, it looks like you do not have a choice to go back to the GNOME 2.32[?] desktop like Ubuntu 11.04 did. I just do not want us to have a menu system that is too different. It we can switch between classic and the new design, that would be great, but the classic design needs to be the default. Then there must be an easy way to switch between menu designs. We cannot afford to give our users a reason to dump us. Menu redesign is one issue that bugs users a great deal. If they are use to finding their options in one place and they are use to going to that place in one way, having them relearn how to find options and where they are located will make users not want to use LO. We all hate when things change. I hate to relearn how to do the tasks I use to do one way when it is not that way anymore. I chose to go from Windows to Linux, so things change. Yet, I would not have that choice if LO changes their menu structure. I like it the way it is now. On 11/28/2011 10:23 AM, Quinn Heagy wrote: I think a good way would be to have the user able to change between a classic and a new look. Also, with Windows 8 - it looks pretty much the same as Windows 7 for a normal desktop. It has the new look for touch enabled computers, but they can still use the old look. If a user needs to get some work done in a good amount of time, then they can use the classic look, and just mess around with the new look when they have free time. They could then choose whichever look they wanted
Re: [libreoffice-users] New design
On 11/28/2011 03:01 PM, Udvarias Ur wrote: My experience tells me that there is a /long term/ solution. However, it requires a change in attitude amongst software publishers/developers. Anecdote: About 20 years ago Wordperfect was the dominant word processor on the market. I was going to McGill University and Wordperfect was the university's approved and internally supported word processor. Like most software publishers, the Wordperfect publisherswere not concerned about the UI (user Interface), and concentrated entirely on the functionality. The result was that UI research went screaming ahead while the Wordperfect UI was frozen in time. Finally Wordperfect simply had no choice but to upgrade it's UI. As the UI had been ignored for so long the upgrade was huge. All the 10 fingered 150 word per minute typists complained that they had to learn an entirely new word processor. Worse, their typing speed slowed to a crawl. The only reason that they stuck with Wordperfect was because it was what the university provided, and the only word processor the university supported. The point is that software publishers/developers must change their attitude. The UI is as important a part of the software as anything else, may be more so. Ergo, UI development MUST be continuously on going just like functionality development. That is the ONLY way to avoid the problems being discussed in this thread. Having said that ... I agree with both Quinn Heagy and webmaster for Kracked. In the current circumstances, if a new UI is introduced that is significantly different from the classic one, it MUST be possible change back and forth. I do not agree with webmaster for Kracked that the classic UI must be the default. What MUST be done is to: 1. Allow the user to change back and forth simply and easily, 2. Make information about how to do things in the new UI easily accessible, and (possibly the most important thing of all is) 3. Inform the user, at install time, that: A. there is a new UI, B. that the classic UI is still available, C. the simple and easy way to switch back and forth, D. how to get information about getting things done in the new UI. Neither do I agree with Pedro. He may have a wide screen monitor, however, the install base of old fashioned CRTs is huge. I'd even hazard a guess that if everyone in the world who currently has a CRT monitor was to switch to a wide screen (cost and availability aside) the old CRTs would make a pile tall enough that any self respecting mountaineer would be eager to tackle. (Classic case of Jungian projection.) Not all flat screens are wide screen or are very large. I have an old standby computer with a small flat screen. Udvarias Ur Software Quality Assurance Engineer (retired) On 11-11-28 10:48 AM, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions wrote: With Ubuntu 11.10, it looks like you do not have a choice to go back to the GNOME 2.32[?] desktop like Ubuntu 11.04 did. I just do not want us to have a menu system that is too different. It we can switch between classic and the new design, that would be great, but the classic design needs to be the default. Then there must be an easy way to switch between menu designs. We cannot afford to give our users a reason to dump us. Menu redesign is one issue that bugs users a great deal. If they are use to finding their options in one place and they are use to going to that place in one way, having them relearn how to find options and where they are located will make users not want to use LO. We all hate when things change. I hate to relearn how to do the tasks I use to do one way when it is not that way anymore. I chose to go from Windows to Linux, so things change. Yet, I would not have that choice if LO changes their menu structure. I like it the way it is now. On 11/28/2011 10:23 AM, Quinn Heagy wrote: I think a good way would be to have the user able to change between a classic and a new look. Also, with Windows 8 - it looks pretty much the same as Windows 7 for a normal desktop. It has the new look for touch enabled computers, but they can still use the old look. If a user needs to get some work done in a good amount of time, then they can use the classic look, and just mess around with the new look when they have free time. They could then choose whichever look they wanted to use. On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 10:16 AM, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: The big thing we need to learn from current desktop design changes, is the fact that if the redesigns are too radical or too much different from what users are use to, then it will turn users away from our product. The change from MSO's old menu design to the new one is something that caused users issues and was a concern for IT departments to be able to handle the tech calls asking for
