Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
Il 17/09/2011 14:30, David B Teague sr ha scritto: On 9/16/2011 6:56 AM, Tom Davies wrote: If you were able to ring-fence about 20% of the features of MS Office then about 80% of users never stray outside that. From what i see it's more like about 100% of users. Most users don't even use all of that 20%. I hope this isn't hijacking the thread, and if so, /please /say so, and I'll repost this in a new thread. The fact that 20% of the features of MS Office (and by implication, LO and OO.o) used almost exclusively by some 80% of the users suggests to me that OO.o should identify that 20% of features and modularize OO.o or LO or what have you to include that 20% and make the other 80% of the features available as extensions. I'd like comments on this idea. David Teague That sounds good in theory, but IMHO it's not as simple as it seems once you start to debate how to implement it. I think it's not worth the trouble, given the presence of Gnumeric + Abiword + google docs for those who need only a 20% of what OOo can offer (not that I think gnumeric is only 20% of Calc, btw). -- Marcello Romani -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
On Tue, 2011-09-20 at 16:07 +0200, Marcello Romani wrote: Il 17/09/2011 14:30, David B Teague sr ha scritto: On 9/16/2011 6:56 AM, Tom Davies wrote: If you were able to ring-fence about 20% of the features of MS Office then about 80% of users never stray outside that. From what i see it's more like about 100% of users. Most users don't even use all of that 20%. I hope this isn't hijacking the thread, and if so, /please /say so, and I'll repost this in a new thread. The fact that 20% of the features of MS Office (and by implication, LO and OO.o) used almost exclusively by some 80% of the users suggests to me that OO.o should identify that 20% of features and modularize OO.o or LO or what have you to include that 20% and make the other 80% of the features available as extensions. I'd like comments on this idea. David Teague That sounds good in theory, but IMHO it's not as simple as it seems once you start to debate how to implement it. I think it's not worth the trouble, given the presence of Gnumeric + Abiword + google docs for those who need only a 20% of what OOo can offer (not that I think gnumeric is only 20% of Calc, btw). -- Marcello Romani The problem is that a user may only use a fraction of LO but each user uses a different fraction. So for office use you end up needing almost all the features to cover what most users actually use. The light programs you mentioned can be frustrating to use when you have used a program with many more features. -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Suggestion: dedicated file formats list - WAS Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
There really should be a dedicated mail-list limited strictly to file format compatibility issues, that has a few of the developers on it that work on the file format filters. To make it easy for users to submit problems documents, such a list should also allow attachments (a size limitation would be advisable). -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
Hi :) I completely disagree with that. From what i see of average users even 10% might be far too high and it's the same 10% not a different 10% for each person. A lot of secretaries and people that work with Word all day long consider the use of indent, tabs or tables rather than lots of spaces as scarily technical or over-complicated. Copypaste is beyond a lot of people, especially using keyboard short-cuts. I have seen a lot of people with a spreadsheet open on their machine yet they reach for a calculator to add up a list of figures and i am talking about office managers, senior executives, accountants, not dumb idiots! A person that takes a LOT of pictures with an iPhone was shocked when i turned it sideways to see landscape pictures fill the screen. Using Calc does not mean using 1/6th of the functionality of the entire Suite. It often means just typing in numbers and maybe looking at the results at the end of the row. Regards from Tom :) --- On Sun, 18/9/11, planas jsloz...@gmail.com wrote: From: planas jsloz...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Sunday, 18 September, 2011, 6:53 David, On Sat, 2011-09-17 at 08:30 -0400, David B Teague sr wrote: On 9/16/2011 6:56 AM, Tom Davies wrote: If you were able to ring-fence about 20% of the features of MS Office then about 80% of users never stray outside that. From what i see it's more like about 100% of users. Most users don't even use all of that 20%. I hope this isn't hijacking the thread, and if so, /please /say so, and I'll repost this in a new thread. The fact that 20% of the features of MS Office (and by implication, LO and OO.o) used almost exclusively by some 80% of the users suggests to me that OO.o should identify that 20% of features and modularize OO.o or LO or what have you to include that 20% and make the other 80% of the features available as extensions. I think you will actually find individuals use about 20 - 25% of the features regularly but I think you will find there is very little overlap. This means that LO needs to cover about 75 - 85% of the features as a minimum to cover the user base. You will find users who will use one or two components almost exclusively and very rarely use the others. For example I use Writer and Calc extensively, Base occasionally, and almost never use Impress or Draw. I'd like comments on this idea. David Teague -- nil significat nisi oscillat -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
Hi :) I think everyone on this list, even a fresh 'clueless' noob, is in the top 10%. The very fact of knowing about and trying LibreOffice puts people in a very exclusive top percentage of office 'geeks'. Apparently it would not be trivial to remove features and make add-ons/extensions to add back that functionality if required. Even on low-spec machines there probably wouldn't be a dramatic increase in performance and it might complicate things too much. Regards from Tom :) --- On Sun, 18/9/11, Tim Deaton t...@timdeaton.org wrote: From: Tim Deaton t...@timdeaton.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Sunday, 18 September, 2011, 3:13 It's very true that 80% of people only use 20% of the program. The problem is that my 20% is not your 20%. Now, if you could do in-depth tracking of thousands of random users, you might be able to isolate a certain set of features that almost nobody uses. Then those features could be removed if doing so would make enough difference (in performance or in resources used) to make it worth the effort. -- Tim Deaton On 9/17/2011 8:40 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) I really like that idea a lot but i have been told it's unfeasable. Even if we could clearly identify that 20% it would be tricky to slim the apps down that way. Regards from Tom :) --- On Sat, 17/9/11, David B Teague srdavidbtea...@comporium.net wrote: From: David B Teague srdavidbtea...@comporium.net Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Saturday, 17 September, 2011, 13:30 On 9/16/2011 6:56 AM, Tom Davies wrote: If you were able to ring-fence about 20% of the features of MS Office then about 80% of users never stray outside that. From what i see it's more like about 100% of users. Most users don't even use all of that 20%. I hope this isn't hijacking the thread, and if so, /please /say so, and I'll repost this in a new thread. The fact that 20% of the features of MS Office (and by implication, LO and OO.o) used almost exclusively by some 80% of the users suggests to me that OO.o should identify that 20% of features and modularize OO.o or LO or what have you to include that 20% and make the other 80% of the features available as extensions. I'd like comments on this idea. David Teague -- nil significat nisi oscillat -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
On Sat, 2011-09-17 at 08:30 -0400, David B Teague sr wrote: The fact that 20% of the features of MS Office (and by implication, LO and OO.o) used almost exclusively by some 80% of the users suggests to me that OO.o should identify that 20% of features and modularize OO.o or LO or what have you to include that 20% and make the other 80% of the features available as extensions. One thing to remember is that in institutions, it will not be the user's job to install or upgrade software. Users should not be running as root/administrator and will not have access to any installation media. The efficient way to install software in such scenarios is to install everything and to provide hardware capable of operating it satisfactorily. There would be no advantage - indeed, considerable disadvantage - if IT departments had to hunt down a set of extensions to make up the package they needed. It would be another obstacle to change. Brian Barker -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
Brian On Sun, 2011-09-18 at 16:17 +0100, Brian Barker wrote: On Sat, 2011-09-17 at 08:30 -0400, David B Teague sr wrote: The fact that 20% of the features of MS Office (and by implication, LO and OO.o) used almost exclusively by some 80% of the users suggests to me that OO.o should identify that 20% of features and modularize OO.o or LO or what have you to include that 20% and make the other 80% of the features available as extensions. One thing to remember is that in institutions, it will not be the user's job to install or upgrade software. Users should not be running as root/administrator and will not have access to any installation media. The efficient way to install software in such scenarios is to install everything and to provide hardware capable of operating it satisfactorily. There would be no advantage - indeed, considerable disadvantage - if IT departments had to hunt down a set of extensions to make up the package they needed. It would be another obstacle to change. Good point, there is a big difference between, home, home office, and small business users and large institutional or corporation users. Often the former are owner/operators and can tailor the installation, while the latter often have limited authority to modify their installation. Brian Barker -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
On 15/09/2011 16:34, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions wrote: I tell everyone that I deal with that MS does not support those x formats the same between their different version of Office. I know people who save their documents in .docx with Office 2010 and it does not work completely read by Office 2007. SO I tell them unless there is a dire need to save it in those x formats, use the ones that go from Office 97 through 2003. There's one major problem with that. In Windows 7 (and it may have been the case in Vista) the option hide extensions for known file types is turned ON by DEFAULT so when the user of Office 2007/2010 creates a document, all they see in the title is the name of the document, not the extension so they don't even KNOW that the default document types are .???x at all. Plenty of posts in the MS Office forums of the type: I just bought Office 2007/2010 and my recipients (i.e. those using 2003 or prior who have NOT installed the compatibility pack) can't open documents I send them. Why? I don't quite know how that is got around... -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
On 9/16/2011 6:56 AM, Tom Davies wrote: If you were able to ring-fence about 20% of the features of MS Office then about 80% of users never stray outside that. From what i see it's more like about 100% of users. Most users don't even use all of that 20%. I hope this isn't hijacking the thread, and if so, /please /say so, and I'll repost this in a new thread. The fact that 20% of the features of MS Office (and by implication, LO and OO.o) used almost exclusively by some 80% of the users suggests to me that OO.o should identify that 20% of features and modularize OO.o or LO or what have you to include that 20% and make the other 80% of the features available as extensions. I'd like comments on this idea. David Teague -- nil significat nisi oscillat -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
Hi :) I really like that idea a lot but i have been told it's unfeasable. Even if we could clearly identify that 20% it would be tricky to slim the apps down that way. Regards from Tom :) --- On Sat, 17/9/11, David B Teague sr davidbtea...@comporium.net wrote: From: David B Teague sr davidbtea...@comporium.net Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Saturday, 17 September, 2011, 13:30 On 9/16/2011 6:56 AM, Tom Davies wrote: If you were able to ring-fence about 20% of the features of MS Office then about 80% of users never stray outside that. From what i see it's more like about 100% of users. Most users don't even use all of that 20%. I hope this isn't hijacking the thread, and if so, /please /say so, and I'll repost this in a new thread. The fact that 20% of the features of MS Office (and by implication, LO and OO.o) used almost exclusively by some 80% of the users suggests to me that OO.o should identify that 20% of features and modularize OO.o or LO or what have you to include that 20% and make the other 80% of the features available as extensions. I'd like comments on this idea. David Teague -- nil significat nisi oscillat -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
its better to have it and dont need it than to need it and dont have it thats my line of thinking On 17 September 2011 18:10, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) I really like that idea a lot but i have been told it's unfeasable. Even if we could clearly identify that 20% it would be tricky to slim the apps down that way. Regards from Tom :) --- On Sat, 17/9/11, David B Teague sr davidbtea...@comporium.net wrote: From: David B Teague sr davidbtea...@comporium.net Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Saturday, 17 September, 2011, 13:30 On 9/16/2011 6:56 AM, Tom Davies wrote: If you were able to ring-fence about 20% of the features of MS Office then about 80% of users never stray outside that. From what i see it's more like about 100% of users. Most users don't even use all of that 20%. I hope this isn't hijacking the thread, and if so, /please /say so, and I'll repost this in a new thread. The fact that 20% of the features of MS Office (and by implication, LO and OO.o) used almost exclusively by some 80% of the users suggests to me that OO.o should identify that 20% of features and modularize OO.o or LO or what have you to include that 20% and make the other 80% of the features available as extensions. I'd like comments on this idea. David Teague -- nil significat nisi oscillat -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Dr soumalya ray http://drsoumalya.blogspot.com drsouma...@gmail.com MBBS,MD(PGT-C.Medicine),Ex-HousePhysician(Medicine) Skype: som3776 | Twitter: @docbkp http://twitter.com/docbkp -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
Hi :) +1 Mostly. A little slimming for low-spec machines such as hand-helds, netbooks and stuff might be good but too much would be annoying. There is always google-docs or AbiWord and stuff for low-spec machines anyway :) Regards from Tom :) --- On Sat, 17/9/11, soumalya ray drsouma...@gmail.com wrote: From: soumalya ray drsouma...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Saturday, 17 September, 2011, 14:03 its better to have it and dont need it than to need it and dont have it thats my line of thinking On 17 September 2011 18:10, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) I really like that idea a lot but i have been told it's unfeasable. Even if we could clearly identify that 20% it would be tricky to slim the apps down that way. Regards from Tom :) --- On Sat, 17/9/11, David B Teague sr davidbtea...@comporium.net wrote: From: David B Teague sr davidbtea...@comporium.net Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Saturday, 17 September, 2011, 13:30 On 9/16/2011 6:56 AM, Tom Davies wrote: If you were able to ring-fence about 20% of the features of MS Office then about 80% of users never stray outside that. From what i see it's more like about 100% of users. Most users don't even use all of that 20%. I hope this isn't hijacking the thread, and if so, /please /say so, and I'll repost this in a new thread. The fact that 20% of the features of MS Office (and by implication, LO and OO.o) used almost exclusively by some 80% of the users suggests to me that OO.o should identify that 20% of features and modularize OO.o or LO or what have you to include that 20% and make the other 80% of the features available as extensions. I'd like comments on this idea. David Teague -- nil significat nisi oscillat -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Dr soumalya ray http://drsoumalya.blogspot.com drsouma...@gmail.com MBBS,MD(PGT-C.Medicine),Ex-HousePhysician(Medicine) Skype: som3776 | Twitter: @docbkp http://twitter.com/docbkp -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
Abiword is a real good alternative. On 17 September 2011 18:55, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) +1 Mostly. A little slimming for low-spec machines such as hand-helds, netbooks and stuff might be good but too much would be annoying. There is always google-docs or AbiWord and stuff for low-spec machines anyway :) Regards from Tom :) --- On Sat, 17/9/11, soumalya ray drsouma...@gmail.com wrote: From: soumalya ray drsouma...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Saturday, 17 September, 2011, 14:03 its better to have it and dont need it than to need it and dont have it thats my line of thinking On 17 September 2011 18:10, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) I really like that idea a lot but i have been told it's unfeasable. Even if we could clearly identify that 20% it would be tricky to slim the apps down that way. Regards from Tom :) --- On Sat, 17/9/11, David B Teague sr davidbtea...@comporium.net wrote: From: David B Teague sr davidbtea...@comporium.net Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Saturday, 17 September, 2011, 13:30 On 9/16/2011 6:56 AM, Tom Davies wrote: If you were able to ring-fence about 20% of the features of MS Office then about 80% of users never stray outside that. From what i see it's more like about 100% of users. Most users don't even use all of that 20%. I hope this isn't hijacking the thread, and if so, /please /say so, and I'll repost this in a new thread. The fact that 20% of the features of MS Office (and by implication, LO and OO.o) used almost exclusively by some 80% of the users suggests to me that OO.o should identify that 20% of features and modularize OO.o or LO or what have you to include that 20% and make the other 80% of the features available as extensions. I'd like comments on this idea. David Teague -- nil significat nisi oscillat -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Dr soumalya ray http://drsoumalya.blogspot.com drsouma...@gmail.com MBBS,MD(PGT-C.Medicine),Ex-HousePhysician(Medicine) Skype: som3776 | Twitter: @docbkp http://twitter.com/docbkp -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Dr soumalya ray http://drsoumalya.blogspot.com drsouma...@gmail.com MBBS,MD(PGT-C.Medicine),Ex-HousePhysician(Medicine) Skype: som3776 | Twitter: @docbkp http://twitter.com/docbkp -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
On 9/17/2011 7:35 AM, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: On 15/09/2011 16:34, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions wrote: I tell everyone that I deal with that MS does not support those x formats the same between their different version of Office. I know people who save their documents in .docx with Office 2010 and it does not work completely read by Office 2007. SO I tell them unless there is a dire need to save it in those x formats, use the ones that go from Office 97 through 2003. There's one major problem with that. In Windows 7 (and it may have been the case in Vista) the option hide extensions for known file types is turned ON by DEFAULT so when the user of Office 2007/2010 creates a document, all they see in the title is the name of the document, not the extension so they don't even KNOW that the default document types are .???x at all. Plenty of posts in the MS Office forums of the type: I just bought Office 2007/2010 and my recipients (i.e. those using 2003 or prior who have NOT installed the compatibility pack) can't open documents I send them. Why? I don't quite know how that is got around... For any Windows users (XP thru 7) who cannot see their file extensions: 1. Open Windows Explorer ([WindowsLogo]+[e]) 2. Click [Tools], then [Folder Options], then [View] 3. Uncheck the box beside Hide extensions for known file types That feature is one of the stupidest things Microsoft has ever come up with. Ever since Windows XP introduced it, disabling it is the first thing I do to any computer. I hope that helps. -- Tim Deaton -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
It's very true that 80% of people only use 20% of the program. The problem is that my 20% is not your 20%. Now, if you could do in-depth tracking of thousands of random users, you might be able to isolate a certain set of features that almost nobody uses. Then those features could be removed if doing so would make enough difference (in performance or in resources used) to make it worth the effort. -- Tim Deaton On 9/17/2011 8:40 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) I really like that idea a lot but i have been told it's unfeasable. Even if we could clearly identify that 20% it would be tricky to slim the apps down that way. Regards from Tom :) --- On Sat, 17/9/11, David B Teague srdavidbtea...@comporium.net wrote: From: David B Teague srdavidbtea...@comporium.net Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Saturday, 17 September, 2011, 13:30 On 9/16/2011 6:56 AM, Tom Davies wrote: If you were able to ring-fence about 20% of the features of MS Office then about 80% of users never stray outside that. From what i see it's more like about 100% of users. Most users don't even use all of that 20%. I hope this isn't hijacking the thread, and if so, /please /say so, and I'll repost this in a new thread. The fact that 20% of the features of MS Office (and by implication, LO and OO.o) used almost exclusively by some 80% of the users suggests to me that OO.o should identify that 20% of features and modularize OO.o or LO or what have you to include that 20% and make the other 80% of the features available as extensions. I'd like comments on this idea. David Teague -- nil significat nisi oscillat -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
David, On Sat, 2011-09-17 at 08:30 -0400, David B Teague sr wrote: On 9/16/2011 6:56 AM, Tom Davies wrote: If you were able to ring-fence about 20% of the features of MS Office then about 80% of users never stray outside that. From what i see it's more like about 100% of users. Most users don't even use all of that 20%. I hope this isn't hijacking the thread, and if so, /please /say so, and I'll repost this in a new thread. The fact that 20% of the features of MS Office (and by implication, LO and OO.o) used almost exclusively by some 80% of the users suggests to me that OO.o should identify that 20% of features and modularize OO.o or LO or what have you to include that 20% and make the other 80% of the features available as extensions. I think you will actually find individuals use about 20 - 25% of the features regularly but I think you will find there is very little overlap. This means that LO needs to cover about 75 - 85% of the features as a minimum to cover the user base. You will find users who will use one or two components almost exclusively and very rarely use the others. For example I use Writer and Calc extensively, Base occasionally, and almost never use Impress or Draw. I'd like comments on this idea. David Teague -- nil significat nisi oscillat -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
Hi :) If you were able to ring-fence about 20% of the features of MS Office then about 80% of users never stray outside that. From what i see it's more like about 100% of users. Most users don't even use all of that 20%. People that are more likely to know and might even have read studies suggest it's more like 90% of users only use 10% of the features. It would be great to have a study about this but it's difficult to avoid bias. Leading questions and assumptions or misunderstandings by users. Various guys think they always uses the most sophisticated new features but in fact never do some even block newer or more advanced features because of the 'problems' they have caused. Still, i agree with the rest of the project (outside of the Users List) that we need to be better at both read writes of the newer MS formats just to hold on to the share of the market we have at the moment let alone try to increase that. It's not a surprise to hear that a University that might normally champion intellectual freedom and freedom of speech is so clueless or mis-informed about a computer related issue that they end up forcing people into supporting a big profit-making company. Normally if a university recommends a product they will have received funding or some other good deal from the company. In this case the university is probably not getting anything like that. It would be nice if TDF could form a team that does what MS do and goes out to put our side of the story out to selected companies and such-like. Regards from Tom :) --- On Fri, 16/9/11, Brian Barker b.m.bar...@btinternet.com wrote: From: Brian Barker b.m.bar...@btinternet.com Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Friday, 16 September, 2011, 2:10 At 16:05 15/09/2011 +0200, Andreas Säger wrote: Always send back docx/xlsx/pptx as doc/xls/ppt. All flavours of Microsoft Office fully support any of these heritage file formats and this office suite can handle them much better. There is no technical reason to share docx with users of MS Office. I fear that's not entirely true. There are some facilities in later versions of Microsoft Office which can be saved in .docx etc. formats but not in .doc etc. formats. If your correspondents are making use of these facilities, that content will be lost if you convert their documents to the older file formats. Brian Barker -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
Hi :) +1 It does make life a lot easier to stick to MS's legacy formats. Gradually moving people to OpenDocument Formats would be great and is likely to happen anyway as LO's market share increases. Regards from Tom :) --- On Thu, 15/9/11, Andreas Säger ville...@t-online.de wrote: From: Andreas Säger ville...@t-online.de Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Thursday, 15 September, 2011, 15:05 Always send back docx/xlsx/pptx as doc/xls/ppt. All flavours of Microsoft Office fully support any of these heritage file formats and this office suite can handle them much better. There is no technical reason to share docx with users of MS Office. Unfortunately, the LibreOffice project leads believe that broken support of broken file formats somehow serves the user. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
I tell everyone that I deal with that MS does not support those x formats the same between their different version of Office. I know people who save their documents in .docx with Office 2010 and it does not work completely read by Office 2007. SO I tell them unless there is a dire need to save it in those x formats, use the ones that go from Office 97 through 2003. Myself, I dropped MSO at 2003, but I still have copies of MSO 2003, MSO XP, and if I can find where I put it I have MSO 97 as well. I dropped using MSO when I went to Ubuntu-Linux as my default desktop OS in Feb 2010. Dropped it from my laptops sometime after LO came out. I am setting up an old IBM server with my last copy of XP Home [32-bit] and I have placed MSO 2003 on it, but then installed LO 3.3.x with the MSO files defaulted to LO instead of MSO. The secretary [in training] may need to learn MSO, but she will have LO on it so she can do her typing with an easier to use package. So, promote the use of MSO files that are the legacy ones that can be used by Office 2003 or earlier. Try to get your people to stop using these flaky x formats. Personally I think MS wanted to have their own formats that was their response to the creation of the ODF office file formats. ODF became the International Standards Organization the standard for office file formats instead of MSO's x formats, and then MSO spread some money around and got ISO to state there are two standards [when they normally have only one standard for each product or system]. MSO then decided that, since they would not be in control of the open source part of the standard, they would not fully support their open x formats. On 09/15/2011 10:27 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) +1 It does make life a lot easier to stick to MS's legacy formats. Gradually moving people to OpenDocument Formats would be great and is likely to happen anyway as LO's market share increases. Regards from Tom :) --- On Thu, 15/9/11, Andreas Sägerville...@t-online.de wrote: From: Andreas Sägerville...@t-online.de Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Thursday, 15 September, 2011, 15:05 Always send back docx/xlsx/pptx as doc/xls/ppt. All flavours of Microsoft Office fully support any of these heritage file formats and this office suite can handle them much better. There is no technical reason to share docx with users of MS Office. Unfortunately, the LibreOffice project leads believe that broken support of broken file formats somehow serves the user. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
Hi On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 17:25 +0200, Alexander Thurgood wrote: Le 15/09/11 11:57, Guy Voets a écrit : Hi Guy, So what went wrong? My current experience of importing and exporting docx format files is one of hit or miss... I have gone back to NeoOffice 3.1.2 and OpenOffice.org 3.2.1 in order to load these files, as they seem to at least be able to give me something to work with. Alex I have not had any problems with -x formats with relatively simple Word and Excel files using 3.4.x. I have some trouble with 3.3.0/1 reading the -x format even with simple files. As precaution I like to save any file in the appropriate odf format as well as -x format. -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
It is rather difficult to follow this advice if the acceptance of the docx/xslx/pptx into LO is defective. Then the returned doc/xls/ppt will reflect that, unless the user manages to figure out how to correct everything in LO first [;). -Original Message- From: Tom Davies [mailto:tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 07:27 To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles Hi :) +1 It does make life a lot easier to stick to MS's legacy formats. Gradually moving people to OpenDocument Formats would be great and is likely to happen anyway as LO's market share increases. Regards from Tom :) --- On Thu, 15/9/11, Andreas Säger ville...@t-online.de wrote: From: Andreas Säger ville...@t-online.de Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Thursday, 15 September, 2011, 15:05 Always send back docx/xlsx/pptx as doc/xls/ppt. All flavours of Microsoft Office fully support any of these heritage file formats and this office suite can handle them much better. There is no technical reason to share docx with users of MS Office. Unfortunately, the LibreOffice project leads believe that broken support of broken file formats somehow serves the user. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
Hi :) Yes, but in the original question in this thread it implied that the docX opened with no problems, it was only the saving back into that format that caused troubles. Generally it would be great if we could get MS Office users to send stuff in their older formats. But in this case it seems to have been ok :) Regards from Tom :) --- On Thu, 15/9/11, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote: From: Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org Subject: RE: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Thursday, 15 September, 2011, 20:21 It is rather difficult to follow this advice if the acceptance of the docx/xslx/pptx into LO is defective. Then the returned doc/xls/ppt will reflect that, unless the user manages to figure out how to correct everything in LO first [;). -Original Message- From: Tom Davies [mailto:tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 07:27 To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles Hi :) +1 It does make life a lot easier to stick to MS's legacy formats. Gradually moving people to OpenDocument Formats would be great and is likely to happen anyway as LO's market share increases. Regards from Tom :) --- On Thu, 15/9/11, Andreas Säger ville...@t-online.de wrote: From: Andreas Säger ville...@t-online.de Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Thursday, 15 September, 2011, 15:05 Always send back docx/xlsx/pptx as doc/xls/ppt. All flavours of Microsoft Office fully support any of these heritage file formats and this office suite can handle them much better. There is no technical reason to share docx with users of MS Office. Unfortunately, the LibreOffice project leads believe that broken support of broken file formats somehow serves the user. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: docx format troubles
At 16:05 15/09/2011 +0200, Andreas Säger wrote: Always send back docx/xlsx/pptx as doc/xls/ppt. All flavours of Microsoft Office fully support any of these heritage file formats and this office suite can handle them much better. There is no technical reason to share docx with users of MS Office. I fear that's not entirely true. There are some facilities in later versions of Microsoft Office which can be saved in .docx etc. formats but not in .doc etc. formats. If your correspondents are making use of these facilities, that content will be lost if you convert their documents to the older file formats. Brian Barker -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
