[ANNOUNCE] Groovy 2.4.19, 2.5.10, and 3.0.2 Windows Installers Released

[Keegan Witt]

I released these a few days ago, but didn't send messaging out.

3.0.2:
https://bintray.com/groovy/Distributions/download_file?file_path=groovy-3.0.2.msi
2.5.10:
https://bintray.com/groovy/Distributions/download_file?file_path=groovy-2.5.10.msi
2.4.19:
https://bintray.com/groovy/Distributions/download_file?file_path=groovy-2.4.19.msi

-Keegan

Fwd: [YouTrack, Voted] Issue IDEA-193168: Fully Support Groovy 2.5 Features

[MG]

For anyone who might have missed that: You can coveniently vote for each 
child issue from the umbrella issue 
(https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-193168) by clicking on the 
thumbs up icon right next to the child issue's name G-)


Cheers,
mg


 Forwarded Message 
Subject: 	[YouTrack, Voted] Issue IDEA-193168: Fully Support Groovy 2.5 
Features

Date:   Thu, 12 Mar 2020 20:55:58 +
From:   Mikhail Stepura 
To: M G 



Feature was updated by Mikhail Stepura in project IntelliJ IDEA at 12 
Mar 2020 23:53.
	IDEA-193168 
 
Fully Support Groovy 2.5 Features 
 
Created by you


Votes   +1 (Mikhail Stepura). Total votes: 44

This message was sent by YouTrack , an 
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[search: Reported by me] YouTrack 2019.3.67768

IntelliJ IDEA Groovy 2.5/3.0 Feature Support - @NamedVariant - Plz vote

[MG]

@NamedVariant issue is up: https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-235133

As always please vote,
Cheers,
mg

*Right now we have 9 and 8 votes for the existing individual child 
issues - thank to everyone who took the time - but we have 43 votes for 
the umbrella task...

Re: IntelliJ IDEA Groovy 2.5/3.0 - Vote for Indiviudal Issues

[MG]

@IntelliJ's build system: We use IntelliJ Groovy build, and have very 
vanilla requirements with regards to building our projects (basically 
it's just a larger number of interdependent modules with a bunch of 
artifacts), but alas even that does not work without a hitch: The 
"build-repeatedly-magically-fails"-problem I described here a while ago 
has (after years) thankfully disappeared, just to be replaced by a more 
benign one, where any change in one of a couple of our central Groovy 
modules makes the regular minimal rebuild fail, and we always have to 
rebuild the failing module in its entirety in that case. We can only 
live with it since those modules are relatively stable.*


Also Intellisense in the IntelliJ version we are currently using 
(2019.3.1) gets confused after a short while, and will mark correct code 
as invalid (as a weird workaround, one can comment out the "invalid" 
part of the line, and when commenting it back in, IntelliJ will be back 
on track most of the time).*


Which brings me to:
@"Another thing that comes to mind, JetBrains produces Kotlin, and 
Kotlin competes with Groovy - figure that one out!"
Alas, yes. As I have said here back when the discussion about Gradle 
Groovy vs Kotlin happened, there is an obvious conflict of interests 
here  - ideally you would want your IDE supplier to be as language 
agnostic as possible, which, due to the introduction of and ongoing 
investment in Kotlin, for Jetbrains is no longer the case.
I am still giving them the benefit of the doubt, but thinking back, 
IntelliJ Groovy support used to be top notch, and nowadays it is 
incomplete and suffers from quite a bit of problems. Hmmm...


In any case, even though the Groovy ecosystem is large & strong, in the 
end we are small fry, since it seems obvious to me their actual goal is 
not to replace Groovy, but over time to replace Java.
Then the #1 IDE and the #1 JVM language would come from one company in 
Prague. Not my dream scenario, for sure, after Java and the JVM 
landscape finally made big strides to being completely open source & 
much more community driven... (if I wanted MS (i.e. Visual Studio** & 
C#), I would not have returned to the JVM world from .NET in 2008)


Cheers,
mg

*None of that can be fixed by clearing the IntelliJ caches btw, we do 
that on a regular basis.
**Ironically enough, ReSharper by Jetbrains, at least back then, used to 
be the quintessential Visual Studio refactoring plugin back in 2008.




On 11/03/2020 19:36, Blake McBride wrote:

Hi MG,

The issues I've had with IntelliJ/JetBrains are general. IntelliJ is 
probably the best IDE out there but rather than make it even better 
they seem comfortable just staying a notch above the competition.  I 
guess they don't have to do better.


I've had issues with IntelliJ that are utterly and clearly wrong but 
they say it is a "feature".


Other times I spend hours trying to get IntelliJ to do something that 
ends up hidden deep in the bowels of IntelliJ rather than putting them 
where someone would look for them. This causes hours of wasted time, 
immense frustration, and needless contact with their support.


While their support is very responsive, they're too quick to 
dismiss nearly every issue.


Often a clear bug is discovered but their attitude is that not enough 
people use that feature so we're not going to fix it.  This attitude 
has been a big problem and might also be a factor in the Groovy issue.


Another thing that comes to mind, JetBrains produces Kotlin, and 
Kotlin competes with Groovy - figure that one out!


I've always thought that NetBeans was the most intuitive IDE.  Anytime 
I want to do something I guess at where it is and - boom - there it 
is!  I also see they're really making an effort to upgrade it.  I'll 
be watching them.


IntelliJ, like most build systems, has a convention over configuration 
attitude.  While this works really really well when you are building a 
conventional app, with either, when you try to drift the 
slightest from the convention (with good reason!) a five-minute setup 
can turn into weeks and constant headaches!!  In order to get around 
IntelliJ's and other build system's (Maven, Gradle, etc.) conventions, 
I ended up writing my own build system.  Problem is, I still need an 
IDE for developing and debugging.  I try not to use them for builds.


With regard to eclipse, personally, I've never worked with a worse IDE 
than eclipse.  eclipse:


1. the most unintuitive IDE I've ever used
2. the most buggy IDE I've ever used
3. the most out-of-date IDE I've ever used
4. the least supported IDE I've ever used

I've had a lot better luck with NetBeans!

A number of years ago I embarked, with a team, on a large Java 
project.  We started with eclipse.  We had endless memory issues and 
crashes.  We then switched to NetBeans and used it without 
incident for years.  I eventually switched to IntelliJ because of a 
promised feature.  I spent a lot of time moving this 

Re: IntelliJ IDEA Groovy 2.5/3.0 - Vote for Indiviudal Issues

[MG]

Hi Blake,

thanks for sharing your experience, I am also not the biggest Eclipse 
fan, though I found it not too bad as a Java IDE a while back.


It is funny that you should mention Netbeans - I had nearly forgotten 
about it*, but I actually had the same as experience as you did with 
Netbeans: It was very intuitive, besides Java (and C++) had great 
Javascript support out of the box (whereas Eclipse sucked at this, 
whatever plugin I tried), and in general the fact that it did not put 
you in plugin hell and was not based on a "generic editor for 
everything" base appealed to me. Alas Groovy support was severly 
outdated/lacking a few years back when I evaluated our IDE options - 
does anyone have any recent experiences on what the status of Netbeans 
is with regards to Groovy support ?


Cheers,
mg

*Partially because other (Java only) teams in my organization are using 
Eclipse, and it is always like "Why do you guys need IntelliJ then ?" - 
to which the answer of course used to be "Because it has unparalleled 
Groovy support"



On 11/03/2020 19:36, Blake McBride wrote:

Hi MG,

The issues I've had with IntelliJ/JetBrains are general. IntelliJ is 
probably the best IDE out there but rather than make it even better 
they seem comfortable just staying a notch above the competition.  I 
guess they don't have to do better.


I've had issues with IntelliJ that are utterly and clearly wrong but 
they say it is a "feature".


Other times I spend hours trying to get IntelliJ to do something that 
ends up hidden deep in the bowels of IntelliJ rather than putting them 
where someone would look for them. This causes hours of wasted time, 
immense frustration, and needless contact with their support.


While their support is very responsive, they're too quick to 
dismiss nearly every issue.


Often a clear bug is discovered but their attitude is that not enough 
people use that feature so we're not going to fix it.  This attitude 
has been a big problem and might also be a factor in the Groovy issue.


Another thing that comes to mind, JetBrains produces Kotlin, and 
Kotlin competes with Groovy - figure that one out!


I've always thought that NetBeans was the most intuitive IDE.  Anytime 
I want to do something I guess at where it is and - boom - there it 
is!  I also see they're really making an effort to upgrade it.  I'll 
be watching them.


IntelliJ, like most build systems, has a convention over configuration 
attitude.  While this works really really well when you are building a 
conventional app, with either, when you try to drift the 
slightest from the convention (with good reason!) a five-minute setup 
can turn into weeks and constant headaches!!  In order to get around 
IntelliJ's and other build system's (Maven, Gradle, etc.) conventions, 
I ended up writing my own build system.  Problem is, I still need an 
IDE for developing and debugging.  I try not to use them for builds.


With regard to eclipse, personally, I've never worked with a worse IDE 
than eclipse.  eclipse:


1. the most unintuitive IDE I've ever used
2. the most buggy IDE I've ever used
3. the most out-of-date IDE I've ever used
4. the least supported IDE I've ever used

I've had a lot better luck with NetBeans!

A number of years ago I embarked, with a team, on a large Java 
project.  We started with eclipse.  We had endless memory issues and 
crashes.  We then switched to NetBeans and used it without 
incident for years.  I eventually switched to IntelliJ because of a 
promised feature.  I spent a lot of time moving this project (10,000 
classes!) to IntelliJ only to find that the promised feature is 
extremely buggy.  When I reported the problems JetBrains told me that 
not enough people used the feature and they are no longer supporting it.


While IntelliJ's support of Kotlin will no doubt remain first-class, 
my inclination is that Groovy will experience declining support by 
JetBrains for the above reasons.  Moving forward, you may have better 
luck with NetBeans.


[rant over]

Thanks.

Blake

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 12:33 PM MG > wrote:


Hi Blake,

first of all thank you, and all who voted since my post, for
taking the time, appreciated.

Second: Is your IntelliJ/Jetbrains experience directly tied to
Groovy or to issues in general ? The guy responsible for Groovy in
IntelliJ, Daniil Ovchinnikov, seems to need community created,
upvoted child tasks:
see for instance his comment on the "Support for Groovy 3 syntax"
issue on  5 Dec 2018 17:07:
"@Pradeep Bhardwaj don't worry, the work is in progress. Most of
Groovy 3 features are already supported, please see child tasks
and vote for some (or all) of them."

In any case upvoting is the only thing we can easily do. If this
has no effect, my team will have to look into the Eclipse option
again - great, after we convinced management that paying for
IntelliJ was the way to go :-/
mg