Re: Message threading on this list
On 11/25/21 13:46, John Pilkington wrote: Thank you for that link. I hadn't been aware of that possibility. But I was really thinking of the Hyperkitty display, which appears as the archive default. Having a too-large local mailbox I don't often use it, and its multiple endpoints seemed less than ideal. In Hyperkitty: click the link that says "show replies by date." It's at the end of the first message. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Message threading on this list
On 25/11/2021 19:38, Gordon Messmer wrote: On 11/23/21 14:06, John Pilkington wrote: I'm used to reading messages in order of time of arrival. Threaded display in Thunderbird, or the presentation of the archive by Hyperkitty, doesn't do this Right... Hyperkitty also shows messages in threaded mode, where replies are grouped in the list next to the message they are a reply *to*. Both of those applications are behaving as intended. In Thunderbird, you might prefer to "Sort By > Subject" and "Sort By > Group by sort". Or (and perhaps more likely), you'd prefer Conversation View: https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/gmail-conversation-view/ Thank you for that link. I hadn't been aware of that possibility. But I was really thinking of the Hyperkitty display, which appears as the archive default. Having a too-large local mailbox I don't often use it, and its multiple endpoints seemed less than ideal. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Message threading on this list
On 11/23/21 14:06, John Pilkington wrote: I'm used to reading messages in order of time of arrival. Threaded display in Thunderbird, or the presentation of the archive by Hyperkitty, doesn't do this Right... Hyperkitty also shows messages in threaded mode, where replies are grouped in the list next to the message they are a reply *to*. Both of those applications are behaving as intended. In Thunderbird, you might prefer to "Sort By > Subject" and "Sort By > Group by sort". Or (and perhaps more likely), you'd prefer Conversation View: https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/gmail-conversation-view/ ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Message threading on this list
On Thu, 2021-11-25 at 14:10 +1030, Tim via users wrote: > On Wed, 2021-11-24 at 11:18 +, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > I prefer Evolution to TBird. It lets you fall back to threading by > > Subject if the headers aren't present. I do that and don't see any > > threading issues. > > > > You can also ignore a thread or subthread. > > I've never seen a mail client make ignoring threads as easy as Forte > Agent did some 20 years ago. Just press the I hotkey, and the > current > message and all its siblings (now and forever), are marked to be > ignored (then they're either dimmed or hidden, according to your own > preferences). But other responses in the thread are unaffected. > > I did like how Agent worked, ignoring a thread did not erroneously > mark > it as read. To me, read means I've read it. When "ignore" is > separate > from "read" I can find unread messages if I need to. It had nice > features for hiding old messages without deleting them, to unclutter > your display (again without erroneously marking them as read). And > for > purging even older messages from your cache, if you wanted to. And > it > was the only client I ever saw that could rewrap quotes, and quotes > of > quotes, without mangling them. One other thing I like about Evolution (it was my own suggestion, :-): you can point at a message and show the entire thread its in, showing both read and unread messages and hiding everything outside it. Slightly inspired by the "focus" concept in Emacs. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Message threading on this list
On Wed, 2021-11-24 at 11:18 +, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > I prefer Evolution to TBird. It lets you fall back to threading by > Subject if the headers aren't present. I do that and don't see any > threading issues. > > You can also ignore a thread or subthread. I've never seen a mail client make ignoring threads as easy as Forte Agent did some 20 years ago. Just press the I hotkey, and the current message and all its siblings (now and forever), are marked to be ignored (then they're either dimmed or hidden, according to your own preferences). But other responses in the thread are unaffected. I did like how Agent worked, ignoring a thread did not erroneously mark it as read. To me, read means I've read it. When "ignore" is separate from "read" I can find unread messages if I need to. It had nice features for hiding old messages without deleting them, to unclutter your display (again without erroneously marking them as read). And for purging even older messages from your cache, if you wanted to. And it was the only client I ever saw that could rewrap quotes, and quotes of quotes, without mangling them. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.45.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Oct 13 17:20:51 UTC 2021 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Message threading on this list
On Wed, 2021-11-24 at 20:22 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote: > > I prefer Evolution to TBird. It lets you fall back to threading by > > Subject if the headers aren't present. I do that and don't see any > > threading issues. > > One can also turn off threading in T-Bird and sort by subject > instead. Just 2 clicks. Not sure if that's the same. In Evolution you don't turn threading off (though you can), but just add the Subject field as another criterion. > For forums such as Fedora I select my "View" to be "Unread" so it > matters not where a new message pops up within a thread. I also do that. The default View in Evo is highly customizable. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Message threading on this list
On 24/11/2021 19:18, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Wed, 2021-11-24 at 13:43 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote: Frankly, one feature I would like to see implemented in T-Bird is a way to ignore and not show some of these "sub" sorted items within a thread that veer off on meaningless (at least to me) tangents. I prefer Evolution to TBird. It lets you fall back to threading by Subject if the headers aren't present. I do that and don't see any threading issues. One can also turn off threading in T-Bird and sort by subject instead. Just 2 clicks. For forums such as Fedora I select my "View" to be "Unread" so it matters not where a new message pops up within a thread. Well, except for the times someone doesn't do proper quoting of previous posts. :-) I then only read the posts/threads of interest to me. I ignore threads, for example, that ask about issues of dual boots as I have no experience in that area. After reading what I want to read I mark my Fedora folder "read". As for Evolution, I've been using T-Bird for the longest time and I'll admit to being lazy about trying it. You can also ignore a thread or subthread. OK, that may be a reason. I'll have to sleep on it. -- Did 황준호 die? ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Message threading on this list
On Wed, 2021-11-24 at 13:43 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote: > On 24/11/2021 06:06, John Pilkington wrote: > > I'm used to reading messages in order of time of arrival. Threaded > > display in Thunderbird, or the presentation of the archive by > > Hyperkitty, doesn't do this; the current thread about NVIDIA > > drivers is utterly disjointed in both, with recent posts buried at > > random partway up the display. Is there a fix? > > > > As far as I can tell, threading is working as designed and T-Bird is > following the RFC. Since I'm replying to the initial message > the headers being used by T-Bird are the In-Reply-To: and > References:. So this reply won't be sorted with the messages that > were also replies to the initial post since my reply will lack > > References: <7b78fada-752f-8900-b2ec-07752cee7...@gmail.com> > > In-Reply-To: > > It will probably appear at the end of the thread based on the > time/date this is sent. > > If you want to view the thread in chronological order without regard > to this "sub" sorting > then you probably want to use the gmail web interface. > > Frankly, one feature I would like to see implemented in T-Bird is a > way to ignore and not show some > of these "sub" sorted items within a thread that veer off on > meaningless (at least to me) tangents. I prefer Evolution to TBird. It lets you fall back to threading by Subject if the headers aren't present. I do that and don't see any threading issues. You can also ignore a thread or subthread. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Message threading on this list
On 24/11/2021 06:06, John Pilkington wrote: I'm used to reading messages in order of time of arrival. Threaded display in Thunderbird, or the presentation of the archive by Hyperkitty, doesn't do this; the current thread about NVIDIA drivers is utterly disjointed in both, with recent posts buried at random partway up the display. Is there a fix? As far as I can tell, threading is working as designed and T-Bird is following the RFC. Since I'm replying to the initial message the headers being used by T-Bird are the In-Reply-To: and References:. So this reply won't be sorted with the messages that were also replies to the initial post since my reply will lack References: <7b78fada-752f-8900-b2ec-07752cee7...@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: It will probably appear at the end of the thread based on the time/date this is sent. If you want to view the thread in chronological order without regard to this "sub" sorting then you probably want to use the gmail web interface. Frankly, one feature I would like to see implemented in T-Bird is a way to ignore and not show some of these "sub" sorted items within a thread that veer off on meaningless (at least to me) tangents. -- Did 황준호 die? ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Message threading on this list
On 11/23/21 9:19 PM, Tim via users wrote: Other people manage to do this, why can't you? (That's a generic "everyone else" you question, I'm not referencing you John.) Because nobody ever taught them how to do it and they don't know how to learn things like that on their own. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Message threading on this list
On Tue, 2021-11-23 at 22:06 +, John Pilkington wrote: > I'm used to reading messages in order of time of arrival. Threaded > display in Thunderbird, or the presentation of the archive by > Hyperkitty, doesn't do this; the current thread about NVIDIA drivers > is utterly disjointed in both, with recent posts buried at random > partway up the display. Is there a fix? For message *threading* to work, that is a replies are tied to the message it replied to, in order of the message progression, regardless of date (which some people have wrong, or delay posting so arrival date sorting will end up being wrong), a few things have to occur: People have to use mail clients that work properly. When replying they add the proper in-reply-to and reference headers. Various mail clients don't do this, especially some web-mail interfaces. With those headers munged up, threading is impossible. The answer to that is people *need* to stop using mail clients and systems that don't work properly, *ESPECIALLY* on mailing lists. And people have to use their mail clients properly. They have to hit reply on the message they're replying to, not another message, nor incorrectly use forward instead of reply. So when replying to John Doe's comment, reply to *his* email, and *not* a message three generations later that quoted him, nor a completely unrelated message to your response. If you've read through a thread then decide to reply, reply to the right message, not just the last one you read. The answer to that is people need to do things properly, *ESPECIALLY* on mailing lists. Other people manage to do this, why can't you? (That's a generic "everyone else" you question, I'm not referencing you John.) With the failure of proper use and participation you're left with *trying* to aggregate threads together with the same subject lines and sort them by date. This fails when some mail clients and servers mangle subject lines, when some people change them when they shouldn't, or don't change them when they should, and when their computer's date and timezone are wrong, when they reply in the wrong place, or they draft a post and don't send it for ages. Unthreading reading, where you just plod through messages as they lob in is not guaranteed to put them in correct sequence, either. Messages may not be sent in sequence, and some may get delayed in transit. And, as previously said, the way people send delayed replies, or respond in a different order than they read through a thread, also changes the sequence of transmission and reception. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.45.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Oct 13 17:20:51 UTC 2021 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Message threading on this list
John, On 2021-11-24 09:06, John Pilkington wrote: I'm used to reading messages in order of time of arrival. Threaded display in Thunderbird, or the presentation of the archive by Hyperkitty, doesn't do this; the current thread about NVIDIA drivers is utterly disjointed in both, with recent posts buried at random partway up the display. Is there a fix? I haven't looked at it but if the threading is broken it is because people are replying outside of the thread - creating new threads - it is annoying but there is not a lot you can do about it . . I use a RoundCubeMaill client and when your problem is TOO painful, I do switch to time sorted individual mails but that is frequently not a great solution either . . P. -- Philip Rhoades PO Box 896 Cowra NSW 2794 Australia E-mail: p...@pricom.com.au ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Message threading on this list
On 23/11/2021 22:26, Samuel Sieb wrote: On 11/23/21 14:06, John Pilkington wrote: I'm used to reading messages in order of time of arrival. Threaded display in Thunderbird, or the presentation of the archive by Hyperkitty, doesn't do this; the current thread about NVIDIA drivers is utterly disjointed in both, with recent posts buried at random partway up the display. Is there a fix? You can't use threaded mode in Thunderbird then, because there's no way to do what you want. You have to sort only by date. You might be able to keep a topic together by also sorting by subject, but I don't know how those two sorting options would interact. I do sort by date, because that's the way conversations work. The other views just confuse matters. It's worse than top posting. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Message threading on this list
On 11/23/21 14:06, John Pilkington wrote: I'm used to reading messages in order of time of arrival. Threaded display in Thunderbird, or the presentation of the archive by Hyperkitty, doesn't do this; the current thread about NVIDIA drivers is utterly disjointed in both, with recent posts buried at random partway up the display. Is there a fix? You can't use threaded mode in Thunderbird then, because there's no way to do what you want. You have to sort only by date. You might be able to keep a topic together by also sorting by subject, but I don't know how those two sorting options would interact. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Message threading on this list
I'm used to reading messages in order of time of arrival. Threaded display in Thunderbird, or the presentation of the archive by Hyperkitty, doesn't do this; the current thread about NVIDIA drivers is utterly disjointed in both, with recent posts buried at random partway up the display. Is there a fix? John P ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
