Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

On 2020-04-18 00:26, Christopher Marlow wrote:

On Fri, 2020-04-17 at 11:20 +0800, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming

Evolution works with Exchange and Office 365 for Business? I am going

to
setup Evolution!

By the way, Thunderbird doesn't work with Exchange and O365 properly?



Yes Evolution can do Exchange, Thunderbird can't without buying a
extention to get it to work.


I can't get Evolution to work with Office 365. Sob.







-BEGIN EMAIL SIGNATURE-

The Gospel for all Targeted Individuals (TIs):

[The New York Times] Microwave Weapons Are Prime Suspect in Ills of
U.S. Embassy Workers

Link: 
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/01/science/sonic-attack-cuba-microwave.html




Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

-END EMAIL SIGNATURE-
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

On 2020-04-17 16:54, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

On Fri, 2020-04-17 at 11:20 +0800, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
wrote:
Evolution works with Exchange and Office 365 for Business? I am going 
to

setup Evolution!


Yes.

Note that Evolution has its own mailing list, so if you have questions
it's usually more effective to ask there rather than here.

https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list

poc


I have extreme difficulties getting evolution-ews to work with Office 
365 for Business.


I am asking questions at the evolution mailing list now.

Thank you.








-BEGIN EMAIL SIGNATURE-

The Gospel for all Targeted Individuals (TIs):

[The New York Times] Microwave Weapons Are Prime Suspect in Ills of
U.S. Embassy Workers

Link: 
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/01/science/sonic-attack-cuba-microwave.html




Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

-END EMAIL SIGNATURE-
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Christopher Marlow]

On Fri, 2020-04-17 at 11:20 +0800, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming

Evolution works with Exchange and Office 365 for Business? I am going
> to 
> setup Evolution!
> 
> By the way, Thunderbird doesn't work with Exchange and O365 properly?
> 

Yes Evolution can do Exchange, Thunderbird can't without buying a
extention to get it to work. 
-- 



Thanks,
Chris
ch...@cwm030.com

Fedora 31 Workstation
With XFCE as my preferred desktop ( installed on top of gnome 3) 
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Fri, 2020-04-17 at 17:03 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
> On 2020-04-17 16:54, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > Note that Evolution has its own mailing list, so if you have questions
> > it's usually more effective to ask there rather than here.
> 
> Ever get the feeling that this thread has spawned too many tangents?

Constantly. Not helped by some people not bothering to trim their
quotes, but that's yet another tangent ...

poc
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Ed Greshko]

On 2020-04-17 16:54, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> Note that Evolution has its own mailing list, so if you have questions
> it's usually more effective to ask there rather than here.

Ever get the feeling that this thread has spawned too many tangents?

-- 
The key to getting good answers is to ask good questions.
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Todd Chester via users]

On 2020-04-16 05:23, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:


How about NPACI Rocks?


I have no idea
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Fri, 2020-04-17 at 11:20 +0800, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
wrote:
> Evolution works with Exchange and Office 365 for Business? I am going to 
> setup Evolution!

Yes.

Note that Evolution has its own mailing list, so if you have questions
it's usually more effective to ask there rather than here.

https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list

poc
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Samuel Sieb]

On 4/16/20 9:48 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:

On 2020-04-17 12:30, Samuel Sieb wrote:

On 4/16/20 8:20 PM, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

Evolution works with Exchange and Office 365 for Business? I am going to setup 
Evolution!


That's what I use at work where we have Exchange.


By the way, Thunderbird doesn't work with Exchange and O365 properly?


I just realized that I set my wife up with Thunderbird for an Outlook (Office 
365) account that she needed to access.  I'll have to try it again at work with 
Exchange.



As far as Exchange goes, unless the server supports IMAP or POP I've been told 
you'd need to
add an extension such as  Exquilla or Owl.


You're right.  I checked her configuration and outlook.com allows IMAP. 
Oh well, Evolution does work pretty well.

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Ed Greshko]

On 2020-04-17 12:30, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> On 4/16/20 8:20 PM, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:
>> Evolution works with Exchange and Office 365 for Business? I am going to 
>> setup Evolution!
>
> That's what I use at work where we have Exchange.
>
>> By the way, Thunderbird doesn't work with Exchange and O365 properly?
>
> I just realized that I set my wife up with Thunderbird for an Outlook (Office 
> 365) account that she needed to access.  I'll have to try it again at work 
> with Exchange.
>

As far as Exchange goes, unless the server supports IMAP or POP I've been told 
you'd need to
add an extension such as  Exquilla or Owl.

This to be taken with a grain of salt since I'm not an MS user. 


-- 
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Philip Rhoades]

Turritopsis,


On 2020-04-17 13:01, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

On 2020-04-16 21:43, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

On Thu, 2020-04-16 at 22:43 +1000, Philip Rhoades wrote:

Why are all the replies you send not threading?


They are threading for me. I'm using Evolution and I note that both 
you

and the OP are using Roundcube, so maybe that's a clue.


I think Roundcube webmail is not so good.



Generally I really like RCM - this is the first time I have seen 
something like this with RCM - usually when I see this happening it is 
because the user is replying with a "new" mail to a thread . .


P.
--
Philip Rhoades

PO Box 896
Cowra  NSW  2794
Australia
E-mail:  p...@pricom.com.au
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Philip Rhoades]

Patrick,


On 2020-04-16 23:43, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

On Thu, 2020-04-16 at 22:43 +1000, Philip Rhoades wrote:

Why are all the replies you send not threading?


They are threading for me. I'm using Evolution and I note that both you
and the OP are using Roundcube, so maybe that's a clue.



Yes, that is interesting - everyone else's mails are threading just fine 
. . hmm . .


Thanks!

P.
--
Philip Rhoades

PO Box 896
Cowra  NSW  2794
Australia
E-mail:  p...@pricom.com.au
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Samuel Sieb]

On 4/16/20 8:20 PM, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:
Evolution works with Exchange and Office 365 for Business? I am going to 
setup Evolution!


That's what I use at work where we have Exchange.


By the way, Thunderbird doesn't work with Exchange and O365 properly?


I just realized that I set my wife up with Thunderbird for an Outlook 
(Office 365) account that she needed to access.  I'll have to try it 
again at work with Exchange.

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

On 2020-04-17 03:30, Christopher Marlow wrote:

On Thu, 2020-04-16 at 21:56 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:

On 2020-04-16 21:43, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> On Thu, 2020-04-16 at 22:43 +1000, Philip Rhoades wrote:
> > Why are all the replies you send not threading?
> They are threading for me. I'm using Evolution and I note that both
> you
> and the OP are using Roundcube, so maybe that's a clue.
>

Threading fine in T-Bird as well.



--
That is one thing I don't like about Evolution is that you can't thread
one folder you have to thread every folder and I don't want that. I
just want to thread the Evolution group folder and the Fedora
convosations folder. ugh! And I use exchange and this is the only
client that can do exchange without having to go out and buy an
extention to get Exchange to work.. I could use IMAP in TB but...
eh


Evolution works with Exchange and Office 365 for Business? I am going to 
setup Evolution!


By the way, Thunderbird doesn't work with Exchange and O365 properly?




Thanks,
Chris
ch...@cwm030.com

Fedora 31 Workstation
With XFCE as my preferred desktop ( installed on top of gnome 3)








-BEGIN EMAIL SIGNATURE-

The Gospel for all Targeted Individuals (TIs):

[The New York Times] Microwave Weapons Are Prime Suspect in Ills of
U.S. Embassy Workers

Link: 
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/01/science/sonic-attack-cuba-microwave.html




Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

-END EMAIL SIGNATURE-
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

On 2020-04-16 21:43, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

On Thu, 2020-04-16 at 22:43 +1000, Philip Rhoades wrote:

Why are all the replies you send not threading?


They are threading for me. I'm using Evolution and I note that both you
and the OP are using Roundcube, so maybe that's a clue.

poc


I think Roundcube webmail is not so good.






--
-BEGIN EMAIL SIGNATURE-

The Gospel for all Targeted Individuals (TIs):

[The New York Times] Microwave Weapons Are Prime Suspect in Ills of
U.S. Embassy Workers

Link: 
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/01/science/sonic-attack-cuba-microwave.html




Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

-END EMAIL SIGNATURE-
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Thu, 2020-04-16 at 14:30 -0500, Christopher Marlow wrote:
> That is one thing I don't like about Evolution is that you can't thread
> one folder you have to thread every folder and I don't want that.

You can toggle threading with Ctrl-T.

poc
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Christopher Marlow]

On Thu, 2020-04-16 at 21:56 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
> On 2020-04-16 21:43, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > On Thu, 2020-04-16 at 22:43 +1000, Philip Rhoades wrote:
> > > Why are all the replies you send not threading?
> > They are threading for me. I'm using Evolution and I note that both
> > you
> > and the OP are using Roundcube, so maybe that's a clue.
> > 
> 
> Threading fine in T-Bird as well.


--
That is one thing I don't like about Evolution is that you can't thread
one folder you have to thread every folder and I don't want that. I
just want to thread the Evolution group folder and the Fedora
convosations folder. ugh! And I use exchange and this is the only
client that can do exchange without having to go out and buy an
extention to get Exchange to work.. I could use IMAP in TB but...
eh


Thanks,
Chris
ch...@cwm030.com

Fedora 31 Workstation
With XFCE as my preferred desktop ( installed on top of gnome 3) 
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 2020-04-16 05:32, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

On 2020-04-16 03:30, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

On 2020-04-15 02:08, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

On 2020-04-15 04:39, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:



And thank you for not foisting the latest Firefox
and Thunderbird on us with all the weird bugs
they introduced.


I am not using Firefox and Thunderbird at the moment. I have been 
using Google Chrome for a few years already.



Also try Brave Browser and Vivaldi with uBlock Orgin.
Both are also "Blink" based browsers as is chrome.
Brave has built in ad blocking and no spying.

I have had to install both Brave and Firefox on customer's machines as
Firefox is dying with fewer and fewer sites
working on it.  I tell my customers if it does not work on
one browser, to use the other.  You can switch back and forth.

I try to stay away from Chrome as it spies on you mercilessly.
Anything that works in Chrome should work in the other Blink
based browsers.

Vivaldi is customizable out the wazoo


Google Chrome spies on users?

I stopped using Firefox a few years ago because it keeps deleting my 
bookmarks in the past. A bug I think.


Chrome is a Google product.  Collecting data on you
is Google's business model.

I have had to intsall Brave Browser next to Firefox because
of all the issues with Firefox.

Here is breakdown on browser privacy:
https://www.scss.tcd.ie/Doug.Leith/pubs/browser_privacy.pdf
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[George N. White III]

On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 at 09:40, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming <
c...@teo-en-ming.com> wrote:

> On 2020-04-16 04:40, J.Witvliet--- via users wrote:
>
[...]

> > If possible, evaluate all, and re-evaluate every three-four years.
> > Distro's and their corresponding companies (and communities) are
> > living entities...
>
> I don't think most people have the time to evaluate all the few hundred
> Linux distros in the world.
>

Many people are part of a community doing similar work, so will
hear about a few distros that are used within the community.   The
user community of a distro shapes what gets packaged.  If you
leave the distros popular with your community you may find some
packages aren't readily available.

-- 
George N. White III
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Ed Greshko]

On 2020-04-16 21:43, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> On Thu, 2020-04-16 at 22:43 +1000, Philip Rhoades wrote:
>> Why are all the replies you send not threading?
> They are threading for me. I'm using Evolution and I note that both you
> and the OP are using Roundcube, so maybe that's a clue.
>

Threading fine in T-Bird as well.

-- 
The key to getting good answers is to ask good questions.
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Thu, 2020-04-16 at 22:43 +1000, Philip Rhoades wrote:
> Why are all the replies you send not threading?

They are threading for me. I'm using Evolution and I note that both you
and the OP are using Roundcube, so maybe that's a clue.

poc
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

I have no idea. Maybe somebody changed the subject.

On 2020-04-16 20:43, Philip Rhoades wrote:

Turritopsis,

Why are all the replies you send not threading?

P.


On 2020-04-16 22:39, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

On 2020-04-16 04:40, J.Witvliet--- via users wrote:

-Original Message-
From: ToddAndMargo via users 
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2020 9:19 PM
To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Cc: ToddAndMargo 
Subject: Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

On 2020-04-15 07:10, Tim via users wrote:

Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:
Where can I find a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux 
distros

in the world then?


My advice is pick one that has useful user support.  Something you 
can

access and understand.




And there is always the "Fly before you Buy" Live USB sticks


Moreover, don't be lured, or lulled by reviews.
If you have the time, try it, try them all.
What might be good for you might not be acceptable for others.
And you might have specific requirements.

I know an governmental organization, that considered it wise to buy
official support by Canonical.
They hardly put an official case to them, but when they did, allthey
noticed that lierarly their issues were only forwarded to the
corresponding upstream maintainers, without even botherin to see if
they could reproduce it.

Some prefer distro "A", others "B",
But if one has much "higher rankings", but all of your staff is used
to and familiar with "B", the other might end up better for your
organization or company.

If possible, evaluate all, and re-evaluate every three-four years.
Distro's and their corresponding companies (and communities) are
living entities...


I don't think most people have the time to evaluate all the few
hundred Linux distros in the world.









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Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

On 2020-04-16 20:01, George N. White III wrote:

On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 at 08:31, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
 wrote:


On 2020-04-15 22:12, Tim via users wrote:

Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

Scientific Linux is also a clone of RHEL? Is it free too? I

haven't

heard much of it so I guess it is not very popular.


It's tailored to a specific community, not exclusively, but

there's a

definite bias.


Scientific Linux is tailored to the scientific community?


There are many scientific communities.   SL was created by
Fermilab, CERN, DESY and by ETH Zurich which are
mainly high-energy physics labs.   I do applied math and

ecology, but have used CERN ROOT for demonstration of
some remote sensing algorithms.   ROOT is one of those
big systems with a long list of dependencies that used to
be very difficult to install on linux distros.   It happens to use
some of the same libraries as the NASA software I use, so
was convenient for working with some NASA data sets.

A few years ago, support in linux distros for some of these
libraries was very uneven, in part because the libraries were
a moving target, so it made sense to have a distro that
provided suitable versions for key libraries.   Today, the
libraries are more stable so you can use CentOS 8 out of
the ISO for things that were hard to do on previous releases.
(There are, however, still some applications needing libraries
that use weird build systems and don't (yet) have RHEL 8
packages.)

--

George N. White III


Do these scientific communities have mailing lists or discussion forums?







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Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Philip Rhoades]

Turritopsis,

Why are all the replies you send not threading?

P.


On 2020-04-16 22:39, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

On 2020-04-16 04:40, J.Witvliet--- via users wrote:

-Original Message-
From: ToddAndMargo via users 
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2020 9:19 PM
To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Cc: ToddAndMargo 
Subject: Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

On 2020-04-15 07:10, Tim via users wrote:

Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:
Where can I find a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux 
distros

in the world then?


My advice is pick one that has useful user support.  Something you 
can

access and understand.




And there is always the "Fly before you Buy" Live USB sticks


Moreover, don't be lured, or lulled by reviews.
If you have the time, try it, try them all.
What might be good for you might not be acceptable for others.
And you might have specific requirements.

I know an governmental organization, that considered it wise to buy
official support by Canonical.
They hardly put an official case to them, but when they did, allthey
noticed that lierarly their issues were only forwarded to the
corresponding upstream maintainers, without even botherin to see if
they could reproduce it.

Some prefer distro "A", others "B",
But if one has much "higher rankings", but all of your staff is used
to and familiar with "B", the other might end up better for your
organization or company.

If possible, evaluate all, and re-evaluate every three-four years.
Distro's and their corresponding companies (and communities) are
living entities...


I don't think most people have the time to evaluate all the few
hundred Linux distros in the world.






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Link:
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Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):

[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

On 2020-04-16 04:40, J.Witvliet--- via users wrote:

-Original Message-
From: ToddAndMargo via users 
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2020 9:19 PM
To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Cc: ToddAndMargo 
Subject: Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

On 2020-04-15 07:10, Tim via users wrote:

Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

Where can I find a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux distros
in the world then?


My advice is pick one that has useful user support.  Something you can
access and understand.




And there is always the "Fly before you Buy" Live USB sticks


Moreover, don't be lured, or lulled by reviews.
If you have the time, try it, try them all.
What might be good for you might not be acceptable for others.
And you might have specific requirements.

I know an governmental organization, that considered it wise to buy
official support by Canonical.
They hardly put an official case to them, but when they did, allthey
noticed that lierarly their issues were only forwarded to the
corresponding upstream maintainers, without even botherin to see if
they could reproduce it.

Some prefer distro "A", others "B",
But if one has much "higher rankings", but all of your staff is used
to and familiar with "B", the other might end up better for your
organization or company.

If possible, evaluate all, and re-evaluate every three-four years.
Distro's and their corresponding companies (and communities) are
living entities...


I don't think most people have the time to evaluate all the few hundred 
Linux distros in the world.







--
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The Gospel for all Targeted Individuals (TIs):

[The New York Times] Microwave Weapons Are Prime Suspect in Ills of
U.S. Embassy Workers

Link: 
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/01/science/sonic-attack-cuba-microwave.html




Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

On 2020-04-16 03:30, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

On 2020-04-15 02:08, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

On 2020-04-15 04:39, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:



And thank you for not foisting the latest Firefox
and Thunderbird on us with all the weird bugs
they introduced.


I am not using Firefox and Thunderbird at the moment. I have been 
using Google Chrome for a few years already.



Also try Brave Browser and Vivaldi with uBlock Orgin.
Both are also "Blink" based browsers as is chrome.
Brave has built in ad blocking and no spying.

I have had to install both Brave and Firefox on customer's machines as
Firefox is dying with fewer and fewer sites
working on it.  I tell my customers if it does not work on
one browser, to use the other.  You can switch back and forth.

I try to stay away from Chrome as it spies on you mercilessly.
Anything that works in Chrome should work in the other Blink
based browsers.

Vivaldi is customizable out the wazoo


Google Chrome spies on users?

I stopped using Firefox a few years ago because it keeps deleting my 
bookmarks in the past. A bug I think.









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Link: 
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Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

On 2020-04-16 03:21, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

On 2020-04-15 02:27, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

RHEL clones as in CentOS?


Yes, and scientific Linux as well.


Scientific Linux is also a clone of RHEL? Is it free too? I haven't 
heard much of it so I guess it is not very popular.



If is basically rebranded CentOS with a few addition
science related programs thrown in.  It has a great bunch
of guys on its forum.  It is backed by  Fermilab, CERN,
DESY and by ETH Zurich.



Oh I see. All high energy physics labs?

How about NPACI Rocks?








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Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

On 2020-04-16 02:50, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 08:09:23PM +0800, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En 
Ming wrote:

Where can I find a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux
distros in the world then?

What are the top 5?


There is no such authoritative ranking, and everyone's view of "top 
five"
will be different, which is a good thing -- there are many different 
use

cases and different distros shine in different areas.


Noted.






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Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

On 2020-04-15 22:31, George N. White III wrote:

On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 at 11:13, Tim via users
 wrote:


Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

Scientific Linux is also a clone of RHEL? Is it free too? I

haven't

heard much of it so I guess it is not very popular.


It's tailored to a specific community, not exclusively, but there's
a
definite bias.


Before I retired I was using Scientific Linux for RHEL
"compatibility", but it appears to be orphaned with RHEL/CentOS 8:

https://listserv.fnal.gov/scripts/wa.exe?A2=SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-ANNOUNCE;11d6001.1904



Scientific Linux is driven by Fermilab's scientific mission and
focused on the changing needs of experimental facilities.

Fermilab is looking ahead to DUNE[1] and other future international
collaborations. One part of this is unifying our computing platform
with collaborating labs and institutions.

Toward that end, we will deploy CentOS 8 in our scientific computing
environments rather than develop Scientific Linux 8. We will
collaborate with CERN and other labs to help make CentOS an even
better platform for high-energy physics computing.

Fermilab will continue to support Scientific Linux 6 and 7 through
the remainder of their respective lifecycles. Thank you to all who
have contributed to Scientific Linux and who continue to do so.


In the past, CERN has provided scientific packages for CentOS (these
also worked in RHEL).

--

George N. White III


Wow! Fermilab, the European Center for Nuclear Physics (CERN) and other 
high energy physics labs are using CentOS 8.


Looks like I should use CentOS 8 then.








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Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Ed Greshko]

On 2020-04-16 19:30, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:
> On 2020-04-15 22:12, Tim via users wrote:
>> Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:
>>> Scientific Linux is also a clone of RHEL? Is it free too? I haven't
>>> heard much of it so I guess it is not very popular.
>>
>> It's tailored to a specific community, not exclusively, but there's a
>> definite bias.
>
> Scientific Linux is tailored to the scientific community?

Have you considered looking this up in google?  You could have easily found

https://www.scientificlinux.org/about/


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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

On 2020-04-15 22:22, George N. White III wrote:

On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 at 10:30, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
 wrote:


On 2020-04-15 20:20, Frederic Muller wrote:

On 4/15/20 7:09 PM, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:


Where can I find a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux

distros

in the world then?

What are the top 5?

There is no such thing. It really depends on what you want to do,

what

you are familiar with, the support you expect and so on.

And even with the same requirements different people will use

different

distro.


Different distros exist because someone didn't find what they wanted
in
existing distros.   The downside of this is that different distros
provide
different packages, so you may want some software that hasn't been
packaged, or the only package is for a very old version.

There is the Linux Standard Base [1] (LSB), a cooperative effort by
several distributions
coordinated by the Linux Foundation, that attempted to provide binary
compatibility across distributions.

There are a number of open source applications that are sufficiently
complex that building them takes a significant effort (examples
include
TeX Live, R, and NASA's  ocean remote sensing package).  This
worked well for a while, but has broken down.  A couple problem areas
are internationalization, Oracle's change in the licensing for Java,
the
advent of Wayland, and dealing with multiple versions of libraries to
support systems using large numbers of CPU cores and GPU's for
processing.  The NASA package provides it's own versions of many
libraries because distro's build the same library version using
different
options (multiprocessing, compression, array indexing with 32-bit or
64-bit ints, etc).

Initially, LSB was based on RPM packaging with some constraints to
support automated conversion to .deb packages.I found this really
helpful for a year or two before it broke.


Best is probably to test-drive then for a while and see what works

best

for you.

Fred


There are simply far too many choices for Linux distros.


I find it helpful to look at the support forums and wiki's.  Arch
Linux
often has the best documentation.   Ubuntu forums have been
dominated by questions from new users and people who recommend
"sudo ..." whenever "..." doesn't do what the user wanted, but there
are significant projects that are developed on Ubuntu and ported to
other distros.   Debian avoids many of the "overly popular" issues
with Ubuntu, and most Ubuntu packages come from Debian anyway.
 --

George N. White III


I do agree that Arch Linux has very good documentation.






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Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[George N. White III]

On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 at 08:31, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming <
c...@teo-en-ming.com> wrote:

> On 2020-04-15 22:12, Tim via users wrote:
> > Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:
> >> Scientific Linux is also a clone of RHEL? Is it free too? I haven't
> >> heard much of it so I guess it is not very popular.
> >
> > It's tailored to a specific community, not exclusively, but there's a
> > definite bias.
>
> Scientific Linux is tailored to the scientific community?
>

There are many scientific communities.   SL was created by
Fermilab, CERN, DESY and by ETH Zurich which are
mainly high-energy physics labs.   I do applied math and
ecology, but have used CERN ROOT for demonstration of
some remote sensing algorithms.   ROOT is one of those
big systems with a long list of dependencies that used to
be very difficult to install on linux distros.   It happens to use
some of the same libraries as the NASA software I use, so
was convenient for working with some NASA data sets.

A few years ago, support in linux distros for some of these
libraries was very uneven, in part because the libraries were
a moving target, so it made sense to have a distro that
provided suitable versions for key libraries.   Today, the
libraries are more stable so you can use CentOS 8 out of
the ISO for things that were hard to do on previous releases.
(There are, however, still some applications needing libraries
that use weird build systems and don't (yet) have RHEL 8
packages.)

-- 
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

On 2020-04-15 22:12, Tim via users wrote:

Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

Scientific Linux is also a clone of RHEL? Is it free too? I haven't
heard much of it so I guess it is not very popular.


It's tailored to a specific community, not exclusively, but there's a
definite bias.


Scientific Linux is tailored to the scientific community?






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Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

On 2020-04-15 22:10, Tim via users wrote:

Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

Where can I find a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux distros
in the world then?


My advice is pick one that has useful user support.  Something you can
access and understand.


Noted.






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Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

On 2020-04-15 21:43, Frederic Muller wrote:

On 4/15/20 8:29 PM, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

On 2020-04-15 20:20, Frederic Muller wrote:

On 4/15/20 7:09 PM, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:


Where can I find a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux 
distros

in the world then?

What are the top 5?
There is no such thing. It really depends on what you want to do, 
what

you are familiar with, the support you expect and so on.

And even with the same requirements different people will use 
different

distro.

Best is probably to test-drive then for a while and see what works 
best

for you.

Fred


There are simply far too many choices for Linux distros.





But choice is good... Do you prefer a "one-for-all" system, or a 1 or 2
companies world solution?

Indeed it requires more time but we get to find what we need (don't 
we?).


Fred



I do agree choice is good.






-BEGIN EMAIL SIGNATURE-

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[The New York Times] Microwave Weapons Are Prime Suspect in Ills of
U.S. Embassy Workers

Link: 
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Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

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RE: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[J.Witvliet--- via users]

-Original Message-
From: ToddAndMargo via users 
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2020 9:19 PM
To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Cc: ToddAndMargo 
Subject: Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

On 2020-04-15 07:10, Tim via users wrote:
> Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:
>> Where can I find a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux distros
>> in the world then?
>
> My advice is pick one that has useful user support.  Something you can
> access and understand.
>
>

And there is always the "Fly before you Buy" Live USB sticks


Moreover, don't be lured, or lulled by reviews.
If you have the time, try it, try them all.
What might be good for you might not be acceptable for others.
And you might have specific requirements.

I know an governmental organization, that considered it wise to buy official 
support by Canonical.
They hardly put an official case to them, but when they did, allthey noticed 
that lierarly their issues were only forwarded to the corresponding upstream 
maintainers, without even botherin to see if they could reproduce it.

Some prefer distro "A", others "B",
But if one has much "higher rankings", but all of your staff is used to and 
familiar with "B", the other might end up better for your organization or 
company.

If possible, evaluate all, and re-evaluate every three-four years.
Distro's and their corresponding companies (and communities) are living 
entities...

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Joe Zeff]

On 04/15/2020 12:50 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:

There is no such authoritative ranking


And if there were, why would anybody trust it?  Maybe there could be 
something like Rotten Tomatoes, that takes other site's rankings and 
generates an overall ranking, but there will always be people who don't 
trust it because their favorite distro doesn't get enough press to be 
included.

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 2020-04-15 02:08, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

On 2020-04-15 04:39, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:



And thank you for not foisting the latest Firefox
and Thunderbird on us with all the weird bugs
they introduced.


I am not using Firefox and Thunderbird at the moment. I have been using 
Google Chrome for a few years already.



Also try Brave Browser and Vivaldi with uBlock Orgin.
Both are also "Blink" based browsers as is chrome.
Brave has built in ad blocking and no spying.

I have had to install both Brave and Firefox on customer's machines as 
Firefox is dying with fewer and fewer sites

working on it.  I tell my customers if it does not work on
one browser, to use the other.  You can switch back and forth.

I try to stay away from Chrome as it spies on you mercilessly.
Anything that works in Chrome should work in the other Blink
based browsers.

Vivaldi is customizable out the wazoo


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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 2020-04-15 07:31, George N. White III wrote:
In the past, CERN has provided scientific packages for CentOS (these 
also worked in RHEL).


When I used it, they just waited for CentOS
and then put their own polish on it.  I loved
the crowd over on their forums
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 2020-04-15 02:27, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

RHEL clones as in CentOS?


Yes, and scientific Linux as well.


Scientific Linux is also a clone of RHEL? Is it free too? I haven't 
heard much of it so I guess it is not very popular.



If is basically rebranded CentOS with a few addition
science related programs thrown in.  It has a great bunch
of guys on its forum.  It is backed by  Fermilab, CERN,
DESY and by ETH Zurich.

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 2020-04-15 07:10, Tim via users wrote:

Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

Where can I find a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux distros
in the world then?


My advice is pick one that has useful user support.  Something you can
access and understand.
  



And there is always the "Fly before you Buy" Live USB sticks
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Matthew Miller]

On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 08:09:23PM +0800, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:
> Where can I find a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux
> distros in the world then?
> 
> What are the top 5?

There is no such authoritative ranking, and everyone's view of "top five"
will be different, which is a good thing -- there are many different use
cases and different distros shine in different areas.

-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[George N. White III]

On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 at 11:13, Tim via users 
wrote:

> Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:
> > Scientific Linux is also a clone of RHEL? Is it free too? I haven't
> > heard much of it so I guess it is not very popular.
>
> It's tailored to a specific community, not exclusively, but there's a
> definite bias.
>

Before I retired I was using Scientific Linux for RHEL "compatibility", but
it appears to be orphaned with RHEL/CentOS 8:

https://listserv.fnal.gov/scripts/wa.exe?A2=SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-ANNOUNCE;11d6001.1904


Scientific Linux is driven by Fermilab's scientific mission and
focused on the changing needs of experimental facilities.

Fermilab is looking ahead to DUNE[1] and other future international
collaborations. One part of this is unifying our computing platform
with collaborating labs and institutions.

Toward that end, we will deploy CentOS 8 in our scientific computing
environments rather than develop Scientific Linux 8. We will
collaborate with CERN and other labs to help make CentOS an even
better platform for high-energy physics computing.

Fermilab will continue to support Scientific Linux 6 and 7 through the
remainder of their respective lifecycles. Thank you to all who have
contributed to Scientific Linux and who continue to do so.

In the past, CERN has provided scientific packages for CentOS (these also
worked in RHEL).

-- 
George N. White III
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[George N. White III]

On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 at 10:30, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming <
c...@teo-en-ming.com> wrote:

> On 2020-04-15 20:20, Frederic Muller wrote:
> > On 4/15/20 7:09 PM, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:
> >>
> >> Where can I find a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux distros
> >> in the world then?
> >>
> >> What are the top 5?
> > There is no such thing. It really depends on what you want to do, what
> > you are familiar with, the support you expect and so on.
> >
> > And even with the same requirements different people will use different
> > distro.
>

Different distros exist because someone didn't find what they wanted in
existing distros.   The downside of this is that different distros provide
different packages, so you may want some software that hasn't been
packaged, or the only package is for a very old version.

There is the Linux Standard Base
 (LSB), a cooperative
effort by several distributions
coordinated by the Linux Foundation, that attempted to provide binary
compatibility across distributions.

There are a number of open source applications that are sufficiently
complex that building them takes a significant effort (examples include
TeX Live, R, and NASA's  ocean remote sensing package).  This
worked well for a while, but has broken down.  A couple problem areas
are internationalization, Oracle's change in the licensing for Java, the
advent of Wayland, and dealing with multiple versions of libraries to
support systems using large numbers of CPU cores and GPU's for
processing.  The NASA package provides it's own versions of many
libraries because distro's build the same library version using different
options (multiprocessing, compression, array indexing with 32-bit or
64-bit ints, etc).

Initially, LSB was based on RPM packaging with some constraints to
support automated conversion to .deb packages.I found this really
helpful for a year or two before it broke.

> Best is probably to test-drive then for a while and see what works best
> > for you.
> >
> > Fred
>
> There are simply far too many choices for Linux distros.
>

I find it helpful to look at the support forums and wiki's.  Arch Linux
often has the best documentation.   Ubuntu forums have been
dominated by questions from new users and people who recommend
"sudo ..." whenever "..." doesn't do what the user wanted, but there
are significant projects that are developed on Ubuntu and ported to
other distros.   Debian avoids many of the "overly popular" issues
with Ubuntu, and most Ubuntu packages come from Debian anyway.

-- 
George N. White III
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Tim via users]

Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:
> Scientific Linux is also a clone of RHEL? Is it free too? I haven't 
> heard much of it so I guess it is not very popular.

It's tailored to a specific community, not exclusively, but there's a
definite bias.

-- 
 
uname -rsvp
Linux 3.10.0-1062.18.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Mar 17 23:49:17 UTC 2020 x86_64
 
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Tim via users]

Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:
> Where can I find a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux distros
> in the world then?

My advice is pick one that has useful user support.  Something you can
access and understand.
 
-- 
 
uname -rsvp
Linux 3.10.0-1062.18.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Mar 17 23:49:17 UTC 2020 x86_64
 
Boilerplate:  All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted.
I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.
 
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Frederic Muller]

On 4/15/20 8:29 PM, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:
> On 2020-04-15 20:20, Frederic Muller wrote:
>> On 4/15/20 7:09 PM, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:
>>>
>>> Where can I find a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux distros
>>> in the world then?
>>>
>>> What are the top 5?
>> There is no such thing. It really depends on what you want to do, what
>> you are familiar with, the support you expect and so on.
>>
>> And even with the same requirements different people will use different
>> distro.
>>
>> Best is probably to test-drive then for a while and see what works best
>> for you.
>>
>> Fred
>
> There are simply far too many choices for Linux distros.
>
>
>
>
But choice is good... Do you prefer a "one-for-all" system, or a 1 or 2
companies world solution?

Indeed it requires more time but we get to find what we need (don't we?).

Fred
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

On 2020-04-15 20:20, Frederic Muller wrote:

On 4/15/20 7:09 PM, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:


Where can I find a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux distros
in the world then?

What are the top 5?

There is no such thing. It really depends on what you want to do, what
you are familiar with, the support you expect and so on.

And even with the same requirements different people will use different
distro.

Best is probably to test-drive then for a while and see what works best
for you.

Fred


There are simply far too many choices for Linux distros.






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The Gospel for all Targeted Individuals (TIs):

[The New York Times] Microwave Weapons Are Prime Suspect in Ills of
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Link: 
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Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

On 2020-04-15 20:18, J.Witvliet--- via users wrote:

-Original Message-
From: Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming 
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2020 2:09 PM
To: Community support for Fedora users 
Cc: Witvliet, J, Ing., DMO/JIVC/GIT/ITT ;
c...@teo-en-ming.com
Subject: Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

On 2020-04-15 19:37, J.Witvliet--- via users wrote:

-Original Message-


Everything I said was true.  I even gave an example or how RHEL
harmed me financially.

Maybe I should not be so blunt next time?


Is distrowatch.com giving a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux
distros in the world?

NO.
It only counts the times THEY refer tot he DL-site.
If you go directly (or via any search engine) to the distro-DL-site,
it won't take it into acoount Neither if an image is redistributed in
any form.

It is a nice indicator, but ONLY for the users of distrowatch, no more
and no less,




Where can I find a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux distros
in the world then?
What are the top 5?

Sorry, but there aint, and probably wont ever, be such a thing.
I know of people who downloaded an image, and subsequently installed
it over 100,000 times. No one will ever know about such schemes.
Only the use of Distro's with commercial support (RHEL, SLES,
Canononical) will know how much their product is been used, and they
are unlikely to tell.


OK.




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Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Frederic Muller]

On 4/15/20 7:09 PM, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:
>
> Where can I find a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux distros
> in the world then?
>
> What are the top 5? 
There is no such thing. It really depends on what you want to do, what
you are familiar with, the support you expect and so on.

And even with the same requirements different people will use different
distro.

Best is probably to test-drive then for a while and see what works best
for you.

Fred
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RE: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[J.Witvliet--- via users]

-Original Message-
From: Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming 
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2020 2:09 PM
To: Community support for Fedora users 
Cc: Witvliet, J, Ing., DMO/JIVC/GIT/ITT ; 
c...@teo-en-ming.com
Subject: Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

On 2020-04-15 19:37, J.Witvliet--- via users wrote:
> -Original Message-
>
>> Everything I said was true.  I even gave an example or how RHEL
>> harmed me financially.
>>
>> Maybe I should not be so blunt next time?
>
> Is distrowatch.com giving a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux
> distros in the world?
>
> NO.
> It only counts the times THEY refer tot he DL-site.
> If you go directly (or via any search engine) to the distro-DL-site,
> it won't take it into acoount Neither if an image is redistributed in
> any form.
>
> It is a nice indicator, but ONLY for the users of distrowatch, no more
> and no less,
>
>

Where can I find a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux distros in the 
world then?
What are the top 5?

Sorry, but there aint, and probably wont ever, be such a thing.
I know of people who downloaded an image, and subsequently installed it over 
100,000 times. No one will ever know about such schemes.
Only the use of Distro's with commercial support (RHEL, SLES, Canononical) will 
know how much their product is been used, and they are unlikely to tell.


Dit bericht kan informatie bevatten die niet voor u is bestemd. Indien u niet 
de geadresseerde bent of dit bericht abusievelijk aan u is toegezonden, wordt u 
verzocht dat aan de afzender te melden en het bericht te verwijderen. De Staat 
aanvaardt geen aansprakelijkheid voor schade, van welke aard ook, die verband 
houdt met risico's verbonden aan het elektronisch verzenden van berichten.

This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you are 
not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you are 
requested to inform the sender and delete the message. The State accepts no 
liability for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent in the 
electronic transmission of messages.
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

On 2020-04-15 19:37, J.Witvliet--- via users wrote:

-Original Message-


Everything I said was true.  I even gave an example
or how RHEL harmed me financially.

Maybe I should not be so blunt next time?


Is distrowatch.com giving a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux
distros in the world?

NO.
It only counts the times THEY refer tot he DL-site.
If you go directly (or via any search engine) to the distro-DL-site,
it won't take it into acoount
Neither if an image is redistributed in any form.

It is a nice indicator, but ONLY for the users of distrowatch, no more
and no less,




Where can I find a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux distros in 
the world then?


What are the top 5?








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Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

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RE: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[J.Witvliet--- via users]

-Original Message-

> Everything I said was true.  I even gave an example
> or how RHEL harmed me financially.
>
> Maybe I should not be so blunt next time?

Is distrowatch.com giving a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux
distros in the world?

NO.
It only counts the times THEY refer tot he DL-site.
If you go directly (or via any search engine) to the distro-DL-site, it won't 
take it into acoount
Neither if an image is redistributed in any form.

It is a nice indicator, but ONLY for the users of distrowatch, no more and no 
less,


Dit bericht kan informatie bevatten die niet voor u is bestemd. Indien u niet 
de geadresseerde bent of dit bericht abusievelijk aan u is toegezonden, wordt u 
verzocht dat aan de afzender te melden en het bericht te verwijderen. De Staat 
aanvaardt geen aansprakelijkheid voor schade, van welke aard ook, die verband 
houdt met risico's verbonden aan het elektronisch verzenden van berichten.

This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you are 
not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you are 
requested to inform the sender and delete the message. The State accepts no 
liability for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent in the 
electronic transmission of messages.
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2020-04-15 at 16:54 +0800, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
wrote:
> What is ABI?

Application Binary Interface. It means that older programs will
continue to run without recompilation when newer versions of the system
come out. Linux intentionally does not guarantee this, though some
distros may do so to a limited degree.

poc
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

On 2020-04-15 16:50, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

On 2020-04-15 01:39, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

On 2020-04-15 03:15, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

On 2020-04-14 02:01, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

Good afternoon from Singapore,

What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server? Because I 
think both RHEL and Fedora Server are from Red Hat Inc.


When do I use RHEL?

When do I use Fedora Server?

I am looking forward to hearing from you soon.

Thank you.


Hi Turritopsis,

Red Hat kind of sponsors Fedroa and uses a lot of
its designs, but Fedroa is a whole bunch of other
people too.  RHEL is all Red hat.

The difference are

Fedora is a Kaisen (constant improvement) Operating
System.  RHEL is anti-Kaisen.


What is Kaisen? Constant Improvement?


I misspelled it.  It is Kaizen and it means
"Continuous Improvement"

William Edwards Deming -- inventor of the Kaizen Principle
http://itiltopia.com/?p=526

Continuous Improvement

Deming’s concept was that it was everyone’s job to
continually make incremental improvements in everything
we do. All the time, never ending, always improving.
Japan took this concept to heart, to the point where
any factory worker was authorized to (indeed, they
were expected to) walk off the factory line, pull
an automotive engineer into a conference room, and
show the engineer how making a tiny change in the
car’s design would save 5 seconds on the factory
floor. Or 3 seconds. Or 1 second.

They weren’t revolutionizing the design, they were
making small, incremental improvements, and they
were doing it continuously.

This is how the company that made the Datsun B210
grew up to make the Nissan Altima.

   Kaizen

   In Japanese, the word Kaizen means “improvement” or
   “change for the best”. Kaizen is the term most
   commonly associated with the Deming Continuous
   Improvement Cycle. The Deming Cycle can be summarized
   as Plan->Do->Check->Act.


Fedora epitomizes Kaizen:  All the time, never ending,
always improving.  Fedora just keeps getting better
and better and better.


Now I know why there is a Kaizen office at Tan Tock Seng Hospital (TTSH) 
in Singapore. I was working as a Deskside Engineer (IT Support) at Tan 
Tock Seng Hospital until I took unpaid leave indefinitely on 13 April 
2020 Monday.






I now only run Fedora servers.  I dumped RHEL clones
two years ago and have not looked back.


RHEL clones as in CentOS?


Yes, and scientific Linux as well.


Scientific Linux is also a clone of RHEL? Is it free too? I haven't 
heard much of it so I guess it is not very popular.



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Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

On 2020-04-15 09:35, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

On 2020-04-14 16:24, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 02:21:20PM -0700, ToddAndMargo via users 
wrote:

Yes, which is why RHEL is not the best choice for you.  I'm OK with
that, but there's no reason to take it so personally.  "Doesn't do 
what

I want" is not the same as "RHEL is trash."

You have no idea the economic damage RHEL did to me.


Regardless, let's please not trash other distros on this list. (This 
goes

for Arch or Ubuntu or whatever else too, not just RHEL.)


So if someone asked the difference between distros,
I am to keep my mouth shut?

To me "trashing" is if something untrue is stated.

Everything I said was true.  I even gave an example
or how RHEL harmed me financially.

Maybe I should not be so blunt next time?


Is distrowatch.com giving a good and reliable ranking of all the Linux 
distros in the world?








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[The New York Times] Microwave Weapons Are Prime Suspect in Ills of
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Link: 
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/01/science/sonic-attack-cuba-microwave.html




Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

On 2020-04-15 04:39, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

On 2020-04-14 13:31, Matthew Miller wrote:

On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 01:35:16PM -0600, Joe Zeff wrote:

That's a rather biased way to describe RHEL.  I think it's more
objective to describe Fedora as a bleeding edge test bed where new
programs and procedures can have the bugs swatted, and RHEL a more
mainstream distro that takes advantage of what's learned in Fedora.


I would definitely appreciate it if we say "leading edge" rather than
"bleeding edge". Fedora endeavors to deliver _working_ solutions, not
something where you might get your fingers metaphorically chopped off.



The process is awesome.  "Leading edge" does work
for me.  Fedora is one of the greatest examples
of Kaisen (constant improvement) that exist in the
software world.

And thank you for not foisting the latest Firefox
and Thunderbird on us with all the weird bugs
they introduced.


I am not using Firefox and Thunderbird at the moment. I have been using 
Google Chrome for a few years already.



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The Gospel for all Targeted Individuals (TIs):

[The New York Times] Microwave Weapons Are Prime Suspect in Ills of
U.S. Embassy Workers

Link: 
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Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

On 2020-04-15 03:50, DJ Delorie wrote:

ToddAndMargo via users  writes:

The idea is that you can rely on things, including the locked in bugs,


As someone who has a full time job fixing bugs in RHEL, I can
emphatically state that this is not the case at all.

If you want a bug fixed in RHEL, contact your RHEL account manager or
file a RHEL bug.  We prioritize bug fixes according to customer need 
and

impact.  For example, we won't fix a bug that requires an ABI change if
we promise no ABI changes, etc.  But this is what our customers want.


What is ABI?



You seem to have a bias against RHEL but the things you list as weak
points are considered benefits by others.  When an OS upgrade with
recertification could take MONTHS, you absolutely want something that's
not going to change for years on end, yet still has security fixes and
tech support behind it.


In my technical opinion, RHEL is trash,


Please stop trash-talking something just because it isn't the best
choice for you.  Choose something more appropriate and move on.
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The Gospel for all Targeted Individuals (TIs):

[The New York Times] Microwave Weapons Are Prime Suspect in Ills of
U.S. Embassy Workers

Link: 
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/01/science/sonic-attack-cuba-microwave.html




Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 2020-04-15 01:39, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

On 2020-04-15 03:15, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

On 2020-04-14 02:01, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

Good afternoon from Singapore,

What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server? Because I 
think both RHEL and Fedora Server are from Red Hat Inc.


When do I use RHEL?

When do I use Fedora Server?

I am looking forward to hearing from you soon.

Thank you.


Hi Turritopsis,

Red Hat kind of sponsors Fedroa and uses a lot of
its designs, but Fedroa is a whole bunch of other
people too.  RHEL is all Red hat.

The difference are

Fedora is a Kaisen (constant improvement) Operating
System.  RHEL is anti-Kaisen.


What is Kaisen? Constant Improvement?


I misspelled it.  It is Kaizen and it means
"Continuous Improvement"

William Edwards Deming -- inventor of the Kaizen Principle
http://itiltopia.com/?p=526

Continuous Improvement

Deming’s concept was that it was everyone’s job to
continually make incremental improvements in everything
we do. All the time, never ending, always improving.
Japan took this concept to heart, to the point where
any factory worker was authorized to (indeed, they
were expected to) walk off the factory line, pull
an automotive engineer into a conference room, and
show the engineer how making a tiny change in the
car’s design would save 5 seconds on the factory
floor. Or 3 seconds. Or 1 second.

They weren’t revolutionizing the design, they were
making small, incremental improvements, and they
were doing it continuously.

This is how the company that made the Datsun B210
grew up to make the Nissan Altima.

   Kaizen

   In Japanese, the word Kaizen means “improvement” or
   “change for the best”. Kaizen is the term most
   commonly associated with the Deming Continuous
   Improvement Cycle. The Deming Cycle can be summarized
   as Plan->Do->Check->Act.


Fedora epitomizes Kaizen:  All the time, never ending,
always improving.  Fedora just keeps getting better
and better and better.



I now only run Fedora servers.  I dumped RHEL clones
two years ago and have not looked back.


RHEL clones as in CentOS?


Yes, and scientific Linux as well.
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

Noting that Fedora is released every 6 months while RHEL is released 
every 3 years...


On 2020-04-15 03:35, Joe Zeff wrote:

On 04/14/2020 01:15 PM, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

RHEL is a defunct, locked down version of Fedora,
bugs and all.  The idea is that you can rely on
things, including the locked in bugs, not changing
and breaking your stuff, if you can get it to
work properly to start with.


That's a rather biased way to describe RHEL.  I think it's more
objective to describe Fedora as a bleeding edge test bed where new
programs and procedures can have the bugs swatted, and RHEL a more
mainstream distro that takes advantage of what's learned in Fedora.
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The Gospel for all Targeted Individuals (TIs):

[The New York Times] Microwave Weapons Are Prime Suspect in Ills of
U.S. Embassy Workers

Link: 
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/01/science/sonic-attack-cuba-microwave.html




Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

On 2020-04-15 03:15, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

On 2020-04-14 02:01, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

Good afternoon from Singapore,

What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server? Because I 
think both RHEL and Fedora Server are from Red Hat Inc.


When do I use RHEL?

When do I use Fedora Server?

I am looking forward to hearing from you soon.

Thank you.


Hi Turritopsis,

Red Hat kind of sponsors Fedroa and uses a lot of
its designs, but Fedroa is a whole bunch of other
people too.  RHEL is all Red hat.

The difference are

Fedora is a Kaisen (constant improvement) Operating
System.  RHEL is anti-Kaisen.


What is Kaisen? Constant Improvement?



RHEL is a defunct, locked down version of Fedora,
bugs and all.  The idea is that you can rely on
things, including the locked in bugs, not changing
and breaking your stuff, if you can get it to
work properly to start with.

And since RHEL is Anit-Kaisen, you have to run software
that is typically very out-of-date AND NOT EXPECT TO
HAVE ACCESS TO ANY IMPROVEMENTS.  Developers have
to specifically code for it with this in mind.  Most
do not.

RHEL is great for "appliance" type installations where
you get it working once and then you set it and
forget it.

And you can do this with any operating system by
disabling their updates.

A benefit of RHEL is that you have live tech support
from Red Hat. They will try to help you are far
as they can, but keep in mind the purpose of RHEL
is to lock it down, so don't hold your breath.

As far as Fedroa goes, I have always been able to
get help on these kinds of forms and Fedora's
bugzilla is wonderful.  Typically Fedroa will fix
bugs in weeks that RHEL will take five years to
address, usually to turn you down as the fix would
break their out-of-date architecture.

I now only run Fedora servers.  I dumped RHEL clones
two years ago and have not looked back.


RHEL clones as in CentOS?


On my own
workstation/server at my office, I still get the
giggles at everything that work perfectly after
dumping RHEL.  A few did not, but Fedora fixed them
post haste. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.

The straw that broke my back with RHEL was when RHEL
kept deleting my business contacts from Osmo.  Mind
you, Osmo had a fix long ago for this, but could not
help me as it would not run on such an out-of-date
architecture.

Now as far as servers go, I install a minimal
installation, typically off a Live USB.  Then
"add" what I need.  This keeps things simple and
I don't have a bunch of stuff running that is
unused.  Nmap LOVES full installs.  Lots of
security issues to chase after.


LOL.



In my technical opinion, RHEL is trash, but it has
its uses, as I outlined above.

-T


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-BEGIN EMAIL SIGNATURE-

The Gospel for all Targeted Individuals (TIs):

[The New York Times] Microwave Weapons Are Prime Suspect in Ills of
U.S. Embassy Workers

Link: 
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/01/science/sonic-attack-cuba-microwave.html




Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

Noted with thanks.

On 2020-04-15 00:53, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 05:01:50PM +0800, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En 
Ming wrote:

What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server? Because I
think both RHEL and Fedora Server are from Red Hat Inc.


Fedora Server is from the Fedora Project, which is a community 
sponsored

largely by Red Hat -- but Fedora Server is _not_ a Red Hat product.

Fedora Server serves as the "upstream" for RHEL. RHEL is released every
three years, and Fedora Server every six months. Red Hat choses a 
version of
the Fedora OS and branches it into RHEL, which is then supported for 
ten

years.


When do I use RHEL?


When you need a supported operating system with certifications,
partnerships, a long lifecycle, and the other value provided by a Red 
Hat

subscription.


When do I use Fedora Server?


When you want to follow the latest open source code and preview what 
might

land in RHEL in the future, when you are okay with self- and
community-support, and when you don't mind updating to new versions 
every

year.




-BEGIN EMAIL SIGNATURE-

The Gospel for all Targeted Individuals (TIs):

[The New York Times] Microwave Weapons Are Prime Suspect in Ills of
U.S. Embassy Workers

Link: 
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/01/science/sonic-attack-cuba-microwave.html




Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 2020-04-14 16:24, Matthew Miller wrote:

On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 02:21:20PM -0700, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

Yes, which is why RHEL is not the best choice for you.  I'm OK with
that, but there's no reason to take it so personally.  "Doesn't do what
I want" is not the same as "RHEL is trash."

You have no idea the economic damage RHEL did to me.


Regardless, let's please not trash other distros on this list. (This goes
for Arch or Ubuntu or whatever else too, not just RHEL.)


So if someone asked the difference between distros,
I am to keep my mouth shut?

To me "trashing" is if something untrue is stated.

Everything I said was true.  I even gave an example
or how RHEL harmed me financially.

Maybe I should not be so blunt next time?





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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 02:21:20PM -0700, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:
> >Yes, which is why RHEL is not the best choice for you.  I'm OK with
> >that, but there's no reason to take it so personally.  "Doesn't do what
> >I want" is not the same as "RHEL is trash."
> You have no idea the economic damage RHEL did to me.

Regardless, let's please not trash other distros on this list. (This goes
for Arch or Ubuntu or whatever else too, not just RHEL.)


-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 2020-04-14 13:43, DJ Delorie wrote:

ToddAndMargo via users  writes:

So RHEL's "prioritization" is different from mine


Yes, which is why RHEL is not the best choice for you.  I'm OK with
that, but there's no reason to take it so personally.  "Doesn't do what
I want" is not the same as "RHEL is trash."


You have no idea the economic damage RHEL did to me.

Here you go:

7.2 not compatible with C236 and RSTe motherboard
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1353423
Reported:   2016-07-07 03:30 UTC by Todd

Oh Gee Wiz!  It has been only ignored for FOUR years.

It was clearly a timing error, the hard drive was
too fast.  And it worked perfectly and is working
perfectly under Fedora.  The hardware vendor even
offered you free hardware to work on it.  The final
ruling was that you did not support the motherboard.

And that goes back to the out-of-date nature of RHEL.
Whenever you get nailed for hardware not working with
RHEL, you fall back on the "not supported" argument.
And what is supported CAN NOT BE FOUND.  It is out of
stock for years and years.  Cute!  Gets you out of
anything.

I had to work 16 hour days for a week FOR FREE to
completely rebuild a Scientific Linux server
into a Fedora server.  I had to learn a lot of about
current Linux practices in a hell of a hurry.  It
cost me THOUSANDS of dollars in lost billings.

I am sorry, but "Trash" applies.


It does not matter that bugs reported from the community would
strengthen the overall health of the the product.


We do care about the community, and we do fix bugs reported by the
community.  We do this in this other project called "Fedora" so if
that's what you want, that's what you should use ;-)


You are correct, but only to a certain extent.  You did
correct the one for me where cutting a DVD in CentOS 5
scrambled your hard drive.  Happened twice to me.
That as appreciated.   You kind of stopped there.

Fedora, unlike RHEL, does respond and in an impressive
timely matter.  RHEL picks and chooses.  But so
does Fedora, they just  pick a tremendous amount
more.  Fedora practices Kaisen.  RHEL is locked down.



(although, ironically, I'm currently working on backporting to RHEL an
upstream patch set that wasn't requested by a customer)


Interesting.   Hopefully you won't pull all your hair out
if the back port require a five year old utility or command
switch that is not available in  such an out dated package
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[DJ Delorie]

ToddAndMargo via users  writes:
> So RHEL's "prioritization" is different from mine

Yes, which is why RHEL is not the best choice for you.  I'm OK with
that, but there's no reason to take it so personally.  "Doesn't do what
I want" is not the same as "RHEL is trash."

> It does not matter that bugs reported from the community would
> strengthen the overall health of the the product.

We do care about the community, and we do fix bugs reported by the
community.  We do this in this other project called "Fedora" so if
that's what you want, that's what you should use ;-)

(although, ironically, I'm currently working on backporting to RHEL an
upstream patch set that wasn't requested by a customer)
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 2020-04-14 13:31, Matthew Miller wrote:

On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 01:35:16PM -0600, Joe Zeff wrote:

That's a rather biased way to describe RHEL.  I think it's more
objective to describe Fedora as a bleeding edge test bed where new
programs and procedures can have the bugs swatted, and RHEL a more
mainstream distro that takes advantage of what's learned in Fedora.


I would definitely appreciate it if we say "leading edge" rather than
"bleeding edge". Fedora endeavors to deliver _working_ solutions, not
something where you might get your fingers metaphorically chopped off.



The process is awesome.  "Leading edge" does work
for me.  Fedora is one of the greatest examples
of Kaisen (constant improvement) that exist in the
software world.

And thank you for not foisting the latest Firefox
and Thunderbird on us with all the weird bugs
they introduced.
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 01:35:16PM -0600, Joe Zeff wrote:
> That's a rather biased way to describe RHEL.  I think it's more
> objective to describe Fedora as a bleeding edge test bed where new
> programs and procedures can have the bugs swatted, and RHEL a more
> mainstream distro that takes advantage of what's learned in Fedora.

I would definitely appreciate it if we say "leading edge" rather than
"bleeding edge". Fedora endeavors to deliver _working_ solutions, not
something where you might get your fingers metaphorically chopped off.

-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
Not the Pope
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 2020-04-14 12:50, DJ Delorie wrote:

ToddAndMargo via users  writes:

The idea is that you can rely on things, including the locked in bugs,


As someone who has a full time job fixing bugs in RHEL, I can
emphatically state that this is not the case at all.

If you want a bug fixed in RHEL, contact your RHEL account manager or
file a RHEL bug.  We prioritize bug fixes according to customer need and
impact.  For example, we won't fix a bug that requires an ABI change if
we promise no ABI changes, etc.  But this is what our customers want.

You seem to have a bias against RHEL but the things you list as weak
points are considered benefits by others.  When an OS upgrade with
recertification could take MONTHS, you absolutely want something that's
not going to change for years on end, yet still has security fixes and
tech support behind it.


In my technical opinion, RHEL is trash,


Please stop trash-talking something just because it isn't the best
choice for you.  Choose something more appropriate and move on.


Hi DJ,

I was outlining the differnces between the two.
I was being blunt and to the point.

Not to trash talk your project, but I have bugs in
RHEL that have not been address for over S-E-V-E-N
years.  So RHEL's "prioritization" is different from
mine and also different from the way Fedora handles
things.

Then again, I was using Clones of RHEL and as such,
until enough paying subscriber complained, nothing
was going to happen.

It is like the Broken Windows method crime fighting:
if you ignore the little crimes,  then the big ones
will get out of hand.  It does not matter that
bugs reported from the community would strengthen the
overall health of the the product.  It only matters
if something major occurs and it affect subscribers.

And RHEL is good fit for set and forget applications,
provided your application will run on such an outdated
distribution.  But you can do that with any operating
system, including that one whose name I shall not mention,
by turning off the updates.

You are correct, an Anti-Kaisen distribution clearly
does not meet my needs.  I don't see it meeting
a lot of other people's needs either, except in certain
unique situations.

Hopefully, you hearing this from me will change the
culture somewhat at Red Hat, but you need to hear
this or you will never improve the product so it is
usable for more people.

RHEL is perfect if you need an Anti-Kaisen distribution.

Otherwise, go with a Kaisen distribution.  Fedora
is perfect for that.

-T



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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 2020-04-14 12:35, Joe Zeff wrote:

On 04/14/2020 01:15 PM, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

RHEL is a defunct, locked down version of Fedora,
bugs and all.  The idea is that you can rely on
things, including the locked in bugs, not changing
and breaking your stuff, if you can get it to
work properly to start with.


That's a rather biased way to describe RHEL.  I think it's more 
objective to describe Fedora as a bleeding edge test bed where new 
programs and procedures can have the bugs swatted, and RHEL a more 
mainstream distro that takes advantage of what's learned in Fedora.


Not really.  I suffered with RHEL clones for years.
It drove me I-N-S-A-N-E.

Where do you get that Fedora is Bleeding Edge?  If
clearly is not.  Fedora has a whole host of testers
that make sure it is not bleeding edge.  We only see
new stuff when it gets past them.

You see the latest Thunderbird yet?  You see the
latest Firefox yet?  Fedora is "next to Bleeding
Edge".  The process is beautiful.

You can watch and participate in the process over on:

For testing and quality assurance of Fedora releases


RHEL is mainstream in what universe?  Mainstream
if you compare it to something ten years ago.   RHEL
is so locked down that it is very difficult to get
any decent bug fixes or enhancement installed.
"Legacy" would be a better description than "Mainstream".

And if you dare approach a software developer on the
subject, their derision of you running such an
outdated monstrosity is palpable.  They won't help
you as they think you are an idiot.

Also, RHEL does not take advantage of what
was learned on Fedora unless you mean an outdated,
defunct version of Fedora, bugs and all.  RHEL
is frozen.  It does not improve.  Doing
that would risk something (else) going wrong
and breaking the outdated code it does run.



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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[DJ Delorie]

ToddAndMargo via users  writes:
> The idea is that you can rely on things, including the locked in bugs,

As someone who has a full time job fixing bugs in RHEL, I can
emphatically state that this is not the case at all.

If you want a bug fixed in RHEL, contact your RHEL account manager or
file a RHEL bug.  We prioritize bug fixes according to customer need and
impact.  For example, we won't fix a bug that requires an ABI change if
we promise no ABI changes, etc.  But this is what our customers want.

You seem to have a bias against RHEL but the things you list as weak
points are considered benefits by others.  When an OS upgrade with
recertification could take MONTHS, you absolutely want something that's
not going to change for years on end, yet still has security fixes and
tech support behind it.

> In my technical opinion, RHEL is trash,

Please stop trash-talking something just because it isn't the best
choice for you.  Choose something more appropriate and move on.
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Joe Zeff]

On 04/14/2020 01:15 PM, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

RHEL is a defunct, locked down version of Fedora,
bugs and all.  The idea is that you can rely on
things, including the locked in bugs, not changing
and breaking your stuff, if you can get it to
work properly to start with.


That's a rather biased way to describe RHEL.  I think it's more 
objective to describe Fedora as a bleeding edge test bed where new 
programs and procedures can have the bugs swatted, and RHEL a more 
mainstream distro that takes advantage of what's learned in Fedora.

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 2020-04-14 02:01, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:

Good afternoon from Singapore,

What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server? Because I think 
both RHEL and Fedora Server are from Red Hat Inc.


When do I use RHEL?

When do I use Fedora Server?

I am looking forward to hearing from you soon.

Thank you.


Hi Turritopsis,

Red Hat kind of sponsors Fedroa and uses a lot of
its designs, but Fedroa is a whole bunch of other
people too.  RHEL is all Red hat.

The difference are

Fedora is a Kaisen (constant improvement) Operating
System.  RHEL is anti-Kaisen.

RHEL is a defunct, locked down version of Fedora,
bugs and all.  The idea is that you can rely on
things, including the locked in bugs, not changing
and breaking your stuff, if you can get it to
work properly to start with.

And since RHEL is Anit-Kaisen, you have to run software
that is typically very out-of-date AND NOT EXPECT TO
HAVE ACCESS TO ANY IMPROVEMENTS.  Developers have
to specifically code for it with this in mind.  Most
do not.

RHEL is great for "appliance" type installations where
you get it working once and then you set it and
forget it.

And you can do this with any operating system by
disabling their updates.

A benefit of RHEL is that you have live tech support
from Red Hat. They will try to help you are far
as they can, but keep in mind the purpose of RHEL
is to lock it down, so don't hold your breath.

As far as Fedroa goes, I have always been able to
get help on these kinds of forms and Fedora's
bugzilla is wonderful.  Typically Fedroa will fix
bugs in weeks that RHEL will take five years to
address, usually to turn you down as the fix would
break their out-of-date architecture.

I now only run Fedora servers.  I dumped RHEL clones
two years ago and have not looked back.  On my own
workstation/server at my office, I still get the
giggles at everything that work perfectly after
dumping RHEL.  A few did not, but Fedora fixed them
post haste. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.

The straw that broke my back with RHEL was when RHEL
kept deleting my business contacts from Osmo.  Mind
you, Osmo had a fix long ago for this, but could not
help me as it would not run on such an out-of-date
architecture.

Now as far as servers go, I install a minimal
installation, typically off a Live USB.  Then
"add" what I need.  This keeps things simple and
I don't have a bunch of stuff running that is
unused.  Nmap LOVES full installs.  Lots of
security issues to chase after.

In my technical opinion, RHEL is trash, but it has
its uses, as I outlined above.

-T


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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 05:01:50PM +0800, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote:
> What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server? Because I
> think both RHEL and Fedora Server are from Red Hat Inc.

Fedora Server is from the Fedora Project, which is a community sponsored
largely by Red Hat -- but Fedora Server is _not_ a Red Hat product.

Fedora Server serves as the "upstream" for RHEL. RHEL is released every
three years, and Fedora Server every six months. Red Hat choses a version of
the Fedora OS and branches it into RHEL, which is then supported for ten
years.

> When do I use RHEL?

When you need a supported operating system with certifications,
partnerships, a long lifecycle, and the other value provided by a Red Hat
subscription.

> When do I use Fedora Server?

When you want to follow the latest open source code and preview what might
land in RHEL in the future, when you are okay with self- and
community-support, and when you don't mind updating to new versions every
year.

-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
Not the Pope
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

Noted with thanks.

On 2020-04-14 18:09, Tim via users wrote:

Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
wrote:

What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server? Because I
think both RHEL and Fedora Server are from Red Hat Inc.

When do I use RHEL?

When do I use Fedora Server?


There will be plenty of webpages that already give answers to such
questions, but:

Fedora is always newer than Red Hat, releases are released more often,
but has a shorter lifespan, but is free.

New versions of Red Hat are released less often, have a longer
lifespan, and is a commercial product.  Because of the lifespan, it has
older versions of software, and may not have all software you want
available for it (though may be less of an issue with servers than
workstations).

If you want the stability of RHEL, but without the cost, you can use a
free distro that's based on RHEL, like CentOS.

I use CentOS on a LAN server, because I don't want to be upgrading that
machine that often.  But I use Fedora on the general machines, because
I want to use some software that's not available with CentOS.  Though,
right now, the only software I can think of that I face that issue with
is MuseScore.





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Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
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United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Tim via users]

Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
wrote:
> What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server? Because I
> think both RHEL and Fedora Server are from Red Hat Inc.
> 
> When do I use RHEL?
> 
> When do I use Fedora Server?

There will be plenty of webpages that already give answers to such
questions, but:

Fedora is always newer than Red Hat, releases are released more often,
but has a shorter lifespan, but is free.

New versions of Red Hat are released less often, have a longer
lifespan, and is a commercial product.  Because of the lifespan, it has
older versions of software, and may not have all software you want
available for it (though may be less of an issue with servers than
workstations).

If you want the stability of RHEL, but without the cost, you can use a
free distro that's based on RHEL, like CentOS.

I use CentOS on a LAN server, because I don't want to be upgrading that
machine that often.  But I use Fedora on the general machines, because
I want to use some software that's not available with CentOS.  Though,
right now, the only software I can think of that I face that issue with
is MuseScore.

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What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

Good afternoon from Singapore,

What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server? Because I think 
both RHEL and Fedora Server are from Red Hat Inc.


When do I use RHEL?

When do I use Fedora Server?

I am looking forward to hearing from you soon.

Thank you.





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-BEGIN EMAIL SIGNATURE-

The Gospel for all Targeted Individuals (TIs):

[The New York Times] Microwave Weapons Are Prime Suspect in Ills of
U.S. Embassy Workers

Link: 
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/01/science/sonic-attack-cuba-microwave.html




Singaporean Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming's Academic
Qualifications as at 14 Feb 2019 and refugee seeking attempts at the 
United Nations Refugee Agency Bangkok (21 Mar 2017), in Taiwan (5 Aug 
2019) and Australia (25 Dec 2019 to 9 Jan 2020):


[1] https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com/

[2] https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.sg/

[3] https://www.scribd.com/user/270125049/Teo-En-Ming

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