Re: [OMPI users] Windows support for OpenMPI

[Jeffrey A Cummings]

I would be disappointed to see the Windows support go away.  I use it 
mostly for debugging, but it's valuable to me for that purpose.

- Jeff Cummings



From:   Durga Choudhury <dpcho...@gmail.com>
To: Open MPI Users <us...@open-mpi.org>
List-Post: users@lists.open-mpi.org
Date:   12/07/2012 11:33 AM
Subject:    Re: [OMPI users] Windows support for OpenMPI
Sent by:users-boun...@open-mpi.org



All

Let me reiterate my (minimal, compared to other developers) support to the 
OpenMPI project. If all it takes is to build and run regression tests on a 
platform to add a feather in the cap, I am willing to do it.

The low interest in Windows platform does not surprise me; most HPC 
infrastructures use a Unix-like setup, and those few who do use Windows 
likely use Microsoft's own HPC server and MPI stack rather than OpenMPI.

That said, I believe that we should continue supporting Windows for this 
one reason, if nothing else: since Windows comes preinstalled on all PCs, 
new entrants to the field of computer programming are starting on a 
Windows based machine. By providing Windows support for OpenMPI, we will 
make the project accessible to the younger generation and ensure they 
adopt it when they enter the work force. That is another reason that makes 
me think that just because few people asked for it explicitly, few people 
are actually using it, as the newbie types usually do not make explicit 
requests.

Thanks
Durga

On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Jeff Squyres <jsquy...@cisco.com> wrote:
Sorry for my late reply; I've been in the MPI Forum and Open MPI 
engineering meetings all week.  Some points:

1. Yes, it would be a shame to lose all the Windows support that Shiqing 
did.

2. Microsoft has told me that they're of the mindset "the more, the 
merrier" for their platform (i.e., they'd love to have more than one MPI 
on Windows, but probably can't help develop/support Open MPI on windows). 
 Makes perfect sense to me.

3. I see that we have 2 volunteers to keep the build support going for the 
v1.6 series, and another volunteer to do continued development for v1.7 
and beyond.  But all of these would need good reasons to go forward 
(active Open MPI Windows users, financial support, etc.).  It doesn't look 
like there is much support.

4. I'm bummed to hear that Windows building is broken in 1.6.x.  $%#$%#@!! 
 If anyone wants to take a gander at fixing it, I'd love to see your 
patches, for nothing other than just maintaining Windows support for the 
remainder of the 1.6.x series.  But per #3, it may not be worth it.

5. Based on this feedback, it seems like we should remove the Windows 
support from the OMPI SVN trunk and all future versions.  It can always be 
resurrected from SVN history if someone wants to pick up this effort again 
in the future.


On Dec 6, 2012, at 11:07 AM, Damien wrote:

> So far, I count three people interested in OpenMPI on Windows.  That's 
not a case for ongoing support.
>
> Damien
>
> On 04/12/2012 11:32 AM, Durga Choudhury wrote:
>> All
>>
>> Since I did not see any Microsoft/other 'official' folks pick up the 
ball, let me step up. I have been lurking in this list for quite a while 
and I am a generic scientific programmer (i.e. I use many frameworks such 
as OpenCL/OpenMP etc, not just MPI)
>> Although I am primarily a Linux user, I do own multiple versions of 
Visual Studio licenses and have a small cluster that dual boots to 
Windows/Linux (and more nodes can be added on demand). I cannot do any 
large scale testing on this, but I can build and run regression tests etc.
>>
>> If the community needs the Windows support to continue, I can take up 
that responsibility, until a more capable person/group is found at least.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Durga
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Damien <dam...@khubla.com> wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> I completely missed the message about Shiqing departing as the OpenMPI 
Windows maintainer.  I'll try and keep Windows builds going for 1.6 at 
least, I have 2011 and 2013 Intel licenses and VS2008 and 2012, but not 
2010.  I see that the 1.6.3 code base already doesn't build on Windows in 
VS2012  :-(.
>>
>> While I can try and keep builds going, I don't have access to a Windows 
cluster right now, and I'm flat out on two other projects. I can test on 
my workstation, but that will only go so far. Longer-term, there needs to 
be a decision made on whether Windows gets to be a first-class citizen in 
OpenMPI or not.  Jeff's already told me that 1.7 is lagging behind on 
Windows.  It would be a shame to have all the work Shiqing put in 
gradually decay because it can't be supported enough.  If there's any 
Microsoft/HPC/Azure folks observing this list, or any other vendors who 
run on Windows with OpenMPI, maybe we can see what can be done if you're 
interested.
>>
&

Re: [OMPI users] Windows support for OpenMPI

[Durga Choudhury]

All

Let me reiterate my (minimal, compared to other developers) support to the
OpenMPI project. If all it takes is to build and run regression tests on a
platform to add a feather in the cap, I am willing to do it.

The low interest in Windows platform does not surprise me; most HPC
infrastructures use a Unix-like setup, and those few who do use Windows
likely use Microsoft's own HPC server and MPI stack rather than OpenMPI.

That said, I believe that we should continue supporting Windows for this
one reason, if nothing else: since Windows comes preinstalled on all PCs,
new entrants to the field of computer programming are starting on a Windows
based machine. By providing Windows support for OpenMPI, we will make the
project accessible to the younger generation and ensure they adopt it when
they enter the work force. That is another reason that makes me think that
just because few people asked for it explicitly, few people are actually
using it, as the newbie types usually do not make explicit requests.

Thanks
Durga

On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Jeff Squyres  wrote:

> Sorry for my late reply; I've been in the MPI Forum and Open MPI
> engineering meetings all week.  Some points:
>
> 1. Yes, it would be a shame to lose all the Windows support that Shiqing
> did.
>
> 2. Microsoft has told me that they're of the mindset "the more, the
> merrier" for their platform (i.e., they'd love to have more than one MPI on
> Windows, but probably can't help develop/support Open MPI on windows).
>  Makes perfect sense to me.
>
> 3. I see that we have 2 volunteers to keep the build support going for the
> v1.6 series, and another volunteer to do continued development for v1.7 and
> beyond.  But all of these would need good reasons to go forward (active
> Open MPI Windows users, financial support, etc.).  It doesn't look like
> there is much support.
>
> 4. I'm bummed to hear that Windows building is broken in 1.6.x.  $%#$%#@!!
>  If anyone wants to take a gander at fixing it, I'd love to see your
> patches, for nothing other than just maintaining Windows support for the
> remainder of the 1.6.x series.  But per #3, it may not be worth it.
>
> 5. Based on this feedback, it seems like we should remove the Windows
> support from the OMPI SVN trunk and all future versions.  It can always be
> resurrected from SVN history if someone wants to pick up this effort again
> in the future.
>
>
> On Dec 6, 2012, at 11:07 AM, Damien wrote:
>
> > So far, I count three people interested in OpenMPI on Windows.  That's
> not a case for ongoing support.
> >
> > Damien
> >
> > On 04/12/2012 11:32 AM, Durga Choudhury wrote:
> >> All
> >>
> >> Since I did not see any Microsoft/other 'official' folks pick up the
> ball, let me step up. I have been lurking in this list for quite a while
> and I am a generic scientific programmer (i.e. I use many frameworks such
> as OpenCL/OpenMP etc, not just MPI)
> >> Although I am primarily a Linux user, I do own multiple versions of
> Visual Studio licenses and have a small cluster that dual boots to
> Windows/Linux (and more nodes can be added on demand). I cannot do any
> large scale testing on this, but I can build and run regression tests etc.
> >>
> >> If the community needs the Windows support to continue, I can take up
> that responsibility, until a more capable person/group is found at least.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Durga
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Damien  wrote:
> >> All,
> >>
> >> I completely missed the message about Shiqing departing as the OpenMPI
> Windows maintainer.  I'll try and keep Windows builds going for 1.6 at
> least, I have 2011 and 2013 Intel licenses and VS2008 and 2012, but not
> 2010.  I see that the 1.6.3 code base already doesn't build on Windows in
> VS2012  :-(.
> >>
> >> While I can try and keep builds going, I don't have access to a Windows
> cluster right now, and I'm flat out on two other projects. I can test on my
> workstation, but that will only go so far. Longer-term, there needs to be a
> decision made on whether Windows gets to be a first-class citizen in
> OpenMPI or not.  Jeff's already told me that 1.7 is lagging behind on
> Windows.  It would be a shame to have all the work Shiqing put in gradually
> decay because it can't be supported enough.  If there's any
> Microsoft/HPC/Azure folks observing this list, or any other vendors who run
> on Windows with OpenMPI, maybe we can see what can be done if you're
> interested.
> >>
> >> Damien
> >> ___
> >> users mailing list
> >> us...@open-mpi.org
> >> http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> users mailing list
> >>
> >> us...@open-mpi.org
> >> http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
> >
> > ___
> > users mailing list
> > us...@open-mpi.org
> > 

Re: [OMPI users] Windows support for OpenMPI

[Damien Hocking]

I can probably fix the 1.6.3 build.  I think it's just bumping CMake 
support and tweaks so that VS2012 works.  But yeah, it looks a bit grim 
going forward.


Damien

On 07/12/2012 8:28 AM, Jeff Squyres wrote:

Sorry for my late reply; I've been in the MPI Forum and Open MPI engineering 
meetings all week.  Some points:

1. Yes, it would be a shame to lose all the Windows support that Shiqing did.

2. Microsoft has told me that they're of the mindset "the more, the merrier" 
for their platform (i.e., they'd love to have more than one MPI on Windows, but probably 
can't help develop/support Open MPI on windows).  Makes perfect sense to me.

3. I see that we have 2 volunteers to keep the build support going for the v1.6 
series, and another volunteer to do continued development for v1.7 and beyond.  
But all of these would need good reasons to go forward (active Open MPI Windows 
users, financial support, etc.).  It doesn't look like there is much support.

4. I'm bummed to hear that Windows building is broken in 1.6.x.  $%#$%#@!!  If 
anyone wants to take a gander at fixing it, I'd love to see your patches, for 
nothing other than just maintaining Windows support for the remainder of the 
1.6.x series.  But per #3, it may not be worth it.

5. Based on this feedback, it seems like we should remove the Windows support 
from the OMPI SVN trunk and all future versions.  It can always be resurrected 
from SVN history if someone wants to pick up this effort again in the future.


On Dec 6, 2012, at 11:07 AM, Damien wrote:


So far, I count three people interested in OpenMPI on Windows.  That's not a 
case for ongoing support.

Damien

On 04/12/2012 11:32 AM, Durga Choudhury wrote:

All

Since I did not see any Microsoft/other 'official' folks pick up the ball, let 
me step up. I have been lurking in this list for quite a while and I am a 
generic scientific programmer (i.e. I use many frameworks such as OpenCL/OpenMP 
etc, not just MPI)
Although I am primarily a Linux user, I do own multiple versions of Visual 
Studio licenses and have a small cluster that dual boots to Windows/Linux (and 
more nodes can be added on demand). I cannot do any large scale testing on 
this, but I can build and run regression tests etc.

If the community needs the Windows support to continue, I can take up that 
responsibility, until a more capable person/group is found at least.

Thanks
Durga


On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Damien  wrote:
All,

I completely missed the message about Shiqing departing as the OpenMPI Windows 
maintainer.  I'll try and keep Windows builds going for 1.6 at least, I have 
2011 and 2013 Intel licenses and VS2008 and 2012, but not 2010.  I see that the 
1.6.3 code base already doesn't build on Windows in VS2012  :-(.

While I can try and keep builds going, I don't have access to a Windows cluster 
right now, and I'm flat out on two other projects. I can test on my 
workstation, but that will only go so far. Longer-term, there needs to be a 
decision made on whether Windows gets to be a first-class citizen in OpenMPI or 
not.  Jeff's already told me that 1.7 is lagging behind on Windows.  It would 
be a shame to have all the work Shiqing put in gradually decay because it can't 
be supported enough.  If there's any Microsoft/HPC/Azure folks observing this 
list, or any other vendors who run on Windows with OpenMPI, maybe we can see 
what can be done if you're interested.

Damien
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Re: [OMPI users] Windows support for OpenMPI

[Jeff Squyres]

Sorry for my late reply; I've been in the MPI Forum and Open MPI engineering 
meetings all week.  Some points:

1. Yes, it would be a shame to lose all the Windows support that Shiqing did.

2. Microsoft has told me that they're of the mindset "the more, the merrier" 
for their platform (i.e., they'd love to have more than one MPI on Windows, but 
probably can't help develop/support Open MPI on windows).  Makes perfect sense 
to me.

3. I see that we have 2 volunteers to keep the build support going for the v1.6 
series, and another volunteer to do continued development for v1.7 and beyond.  
But all of these would need good reasons to go forward (active Open MPI Windows 
users, financial support, etc.).  It doesn't look like there is much support.

4. I'm bummed to hear that Windows building is broken in 1.6.x.  $%#$%#@!!  If 
anyone wants to take a gander at fixing it, I'd love to see your patches, for 
nothing other than just maintaining Windows support for the remainder of the 
1.6.x series.  But per #3, it may not be worth it.

5. Based on this feedback, it seems like we should remove the Windows support 
from the OMPI SVN trunk and all future versions.  It can always be resurrected 
from SVN history if someone wants to pick up this effort again in the future.


On Dec 6, 2012, at 11:07 AM, Damien wrote:

> So far, I count three people interested in OpenMPI on Windows.  That's not a 
> case for ongoing support.
> 
> Damien
> 
> On 04/12/2012 11:32 AM, Durga Choudhury wrote:
>> All
>> 
>> Since I did not see any Microsoft/other 'official' folks pick up the ball, 
>> let me step up. I have been lurking in this list for quite a while and I am 
>> a generic scientific programmer (i.e. I use many frameworks such as 
>> OpenCL/OpenMP etc, not just MPI)
>> Although I am primarily a Linux user, I do own multiple versions of Visual 
>> Studio licenses and have a small cluster that dual boots to Windows/Linux 
>> (and more nodes can be added on demand). I cannot do any large scale testing 
>> on this, but I can build and run regression tests etc.
>> 
>> If the community needs the Windows support to continue, I can take up that 
>> responsibility, until a more capable person/group is found at least.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Durga
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Damien  wrote:
>> All,
>> 
>> I completely missed the message about Shiqing departing as the OpenMPI 
>> Windows maintainer.  I'll try and keep Windows builds going for 1.6 at 
>> least, I have 2011 and 2013 Intel licenses and VS2008 and 2012, but not 
>> 2010.  I see that the 1.6.3 code base already doesn't build on Windows in 
>> VS2012  :-(.
>> 
>> While I can try and keep builds going, I don't have access to a Windows 
>> cluster right now, and I'm flat out on two other projects. I can test on my 
>> workstation, but that will only go so far. Longer-term, there needs to be a 
>> decision made on whether Windows gets to be a first-class citizen in OpenMPI 
>> or not.  Jeff's already told me that 1.7 is lagging behind on Windows.  It 
>> would be a shame to have all the work Shiqing put in gradually decay because 
>> it can't be supported enough.  If there's any Microsoft/HPC/Azure folks 
>> observing this list, or any other vendors who run on Windows with OpenMPI, 
>> maybe we can see what can be done if you're interested.
>> 
>> Damien
>> ___
>> users mailing list
>> us...@open-mpi.org
>> http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> users mailing list
>> 
>> us...@open-mpi.org
>> http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users
> 
> ___
> users mailing list
> us...@open-mpi.org
> http://www.open-mpi.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/users


-- 
Jeff Squyres
jsquy...@cisco.com
For corporate legal information go to: 
http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/

Re: [OMPI users] Windows support for OpenMPI

[Damien]

So far, I count three people interested in OpenMPI on Windows. That's 
not a case for ongoing support.


Damien

On 04/12/2012 11:32 AM, Durga Choudhury wrote:

All

Since I did not see any Microsoft/other 'official' folks pick up the 
ball, let me step up. I have been lurking in this list for quite a 
while and I am a generic scientific programmer (i.e. I use many 
frameworks such as OpenCL/OpenMP etc, not just MPI)
Although I am primarily a Linux user, I do own multiple versions of 
Visual Studio licenses and have a small cluster that dual boots to 
Windows/Linux (and more nodes can be added on demand). I cannot do any 
large scale testing on this, but I can build and run regression tests etc.


If the community needs the Windows support to continue, I can take up 
that responsibility, until a more capable person/group is found at least.


Thanks
Durga


On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Damien > wrote:


All,

I completely missed the message about Shiqing departing as the
OpenMPI Windows maintainer.  I'll try and keep Windows builds
going for 1.6 at least, I have 2011 and 2013 Intel licenses and
VS2008 and 2012, but not 2010.  I see that the 1.6.3 code base
already doesn't build on Windows in VS2012  :-(.

While I can try and keep builds going, I don't have access to a
Windows cluster right now, and I'm flat out on two other projects.
I can test on my workstation, but that will only go so far.
Longer-term, there needs to be a decision made on whether Windows
gets to be a first-class citizen in OpenMPI or not.  Jeff's
already told me that 1.7 is lagging behind on Windows.  It would
be a shame to have all the work Shiqing put in gradually decay
because it can't be supported enough.  If there's any
Microsoft/HPC/Azure folks observing this list, or any other
vendors who run on Windows with OpenMPI, maybe we can see what can
be done if you're interested.

Damien
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Re: [OMPI users] Windows support for OpenMPI

[Damien]

This is a good start.  Stepping up a level and without wanting to start 
a bunfight with other MPI implementations, what are the advantages of 
OpenMPI over those other various MPI implementations, irrespective of 
platform?  There must be some advantages, or OpenMPI wouldn't exist.  Do 
those advantages apply on Windows and would they justify ongoing Windows 
support?


Damien


On 03/12/2012 11:59 AM, John R. Cary wrote:

Dear OpenMPI community,

This email is about whether a commercial version of OpenMPI for Windows
could be successful.  I hesitated before sending this, but upon asking
some others (notably Jeff) on this list, it seemed appropriate.

We at Tech-X have been asking whether a commercial/freemium support 
model for a Windows

version of OpenMPI would work.  We are currently working on this for some
other products, notably PETSc, which is discussed at
http://www.txcorp.com/home/cosml.

We see some downsides - in particular, with Microsoft's HPC Pack, 
Windows users

have free access to an MPI solution.  This has to be balanced by some
particular advantages of OpenMPI such that there would be a group of
users who would pay for it for anyone to make this work.

We would be very interested in hearing from folks on this list who either
(1) help define the competitive advantage of having OpenMPI on Windows or
(2) would be interested in a commercial solution, were it available.

Naturally, any solution should benefit the OpenMPI community as well to
be a success.

I would be glad to hear from folks on list or off.

ThxJohn Cary







On 12/3/2012 10:32 AM, Damien wrote:

All,

I completely missed the message about Shiqing departing as the 
OpenMPI Windows maintainer.  I'll try and keep Windows builds going 
for 1.6 at least, I have 2011 and 2013 Intel licenses and VS2008 and 
2012, but not 2010.  I see that the 1.6.3 code base already doesn't 
build on Windows in VS2012  :-(.


While I can try and keep builds going, I don't have access to a 
Windows cluster right now, and I'm flat out on two other projects. I 
can test on my workstation, but that will only go so far. 
Longer-term, there needs to be a decision made on whether Windows 
gets to be a first-class citizen in OpenMPI or not. Jeff's already 
told me that 1.7 is lagging behind on Windows. It would be a shame to 
have all the work Shiqing put in gradually decay because it can't be 
supported enough.  If there's any Microsoft/HPC/Azure folks observing 
this list, or any other vendors who run on Windows with OpenMPI, 
maybe we can see what can be done if you're interested.


Damien
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Re: [OMPI users] Windows support for OpenMPI

[John R. Cary]

Dear OpenMPI community,

This email is about whether a commercial version of OpenMPI for Windows
could be successful.  I hesitated before sending this, but upon asking
some others (notably Jeff) on this list, it seemed appropriate.

We at Tech-X have been asking whether a commercial/freemium support 
model for a Windows

version of OpenMPI would work.  We are currently working on this for some
other products, notably PETSc, which is discussed at
http://www.txcorp.com/home/cosml.

We see some downsides - in particular, with Microsoft's HPC Pack, 
Windows users

have free access to an MPI solution.  This has to be balanced by some
particular advantages of OpenMPI such that there would be a group of
users who would pay for it for anyone to make this work.

We would be very interested in hearing from folks on this list who either
(1) help define the competitive advantage of having OpenMPI on Windows or
(2) would be interested in a commercial solution, were it available.

Naturally, any solution should benefit the OpenMPI community as well to
be a success.

I would be glad to hear from folks on list or off.

ThxJohn Cary







On 12/3/2012 10:32 AM, Damien wrote:

All,

I completely missed the message about Shiqing departing as the OpenMPI 
Windows maintainer.  I'll try and keep Windows builds going for 1.6 at 
least, I have 2011 and 2013 Intel licenses and VS2008 and 2012, but 
not 2010.  I see that the 1.6.3 code base already doesn't build on 
Windows in VS2012  :-(.


While I can try and keep builds going, I don't have access to a 
Windows cluster right now, and I'm flat out on two other projects. I 
can test on my workstation, but that will only go so far. Longer-term, 
there needs to be a decision made on whether Windows gets to be a 
first-class citizen in OpenMPI or not.  Jeff's already told me that 
1.7 is lagging behind on Windows.  It would be a shame to have all the 
work Shiqing put in gradually decay because it can't be supported 
enough.  If there's any Microsoft/HPC/Azure folks observing this list, 
or any other vendors who run on Windows with OpenMPI, maybe we can see 
what can be done if you're interested.


Damien
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[OMPI users] Windows support for OpenMPI

[Damien]

All,

I completely missed the message about Shiqing departing as the OpenMPI 
Windows maintainer.  I'll try and keep Windows builds going for 1.6 at 
least, I have 2011 and 2013 Intel licenses and VS2008 and 2012, but not 
2010.  I see that the 1.6.3 code base already doesn't build on Windows 
in VS2012  :-(.


While I can try and keep builds going, I don't have access to a Windows 
cluster right now, and I'm flat out on two other projects. I can test on 
my workstation, but that will only go so far. Longer-term, there needs 
to be a decision made on whether Windows gets to be a first-class 
citizen in OpenMPI or not.  Jeff's already told me that 1.7 is lagging 
behind on Windows.  It would be a shame to have all the work Shiqing put 
in gradually decay because it can't be supported enough.  If there's any 
Microsoft/HPC/Azure folks observing this list, or any other vendors who 
run on Windows with OpenMPI, maybe we can see what can be done if you're 
interested.


Damien