Re: [one-users] Ceph and thin provision

2013-12-13 Thread Ruben S. Montero
OK, Perfect.

I think we missed the original format 2 support from Bill's first
contribution. Being able to pick either format would be perfect We can
schedule this for 4.6

I've filled a bug to track the progress:
http://dev.opennebula.org/issues/2568

Cheers

Ruben


On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 3:56 PM, Campbell, Bill 
bcampb...@axcess-financial.com wrote:

 Yes, Dumpling supports format 2 images (I think Bobtail 0.56 was the first
 release that did).

 I'll be submitting my modified driver to the development team for
 inclusion/modification (ideally we should be able to select which format we
 want to use, so further modifications would be necessary) and hopefully it
 would be included in the next version.

 In the interim, I can share with you the drivers we are using, but be
 advised this would be UNSUPPORTED by the OpenNebula development/support
 team.  It has been working rather well for us though.

 --
 *From: *Kenneth kenn...@apolloglobal.net
 *To: *Bill Campbell bcampb...@axcess-financial.com
 *Cc: *users@lists.opennebula.org
 *Sent: *Thursday, December 12, 2013 9:29:49 AM

 *Subject: *Re: [one-users] Ceph and thin provision

 This all is good news. And I think this will solve my problem of a bit
 slow (a few minutes) of deploying a VM, that is cloning is really time
 consuming.

 Although I really like this RBD format 2, I'm not quite adept yet on how
 to implement it in nebula. And my ceph version is dumpling 0.67, does it
 support rbd format 2?

  If you have any docs, I'd greatly appreciate it. Or rather I'm willing to
 wait a little longer, maybe on the next release of nebula(?), to make rbd
 format 2 to be the default format?
 ---

 Thanks,
 Kenneth
 Apollo Global Corp.

 On 12/12/2013 09:48 PM, Campbell, Bill wrote:

 Ceph's RBD Format 2 images support the copy-on-write clones/snapshots for
 quick provisioning, where essentially the following happens:

 Snapshot of Image created -- Snapshot protected from deletion -- Clone
 image created from snapshot

 The protected snapshot acts as a base image for the clone, where only the
 additional data is stored in the clone.  See more here:
 http://ceph.com/docs/master/rbd/rbd-snapshot/#layering


 For our environment here I have modified the included datastore/tm drivers
 for Ceph to take advantage of these format 2 images/layering for
 Non-Persistent images.  It works rather well, and all image functions work
 appropriately for non-persistent images (save as, etc.).  One
 note/requirement is to be using a newer Ceph release (recommend Dumpling or
 newer) and newer versions of QEMU/Libvirt (there were some bugs in older
 releases, but the versions from Ubuntu Cloud Archive for 12.04 work fine).
   I did submit them for improvement prior to the 4.0 release, but the
 simple format 1 images are the default currently for OpenNebula.

 I think this would be a good question for the developers.  Would creating
 the option for Format 2 images (either in the image template as a parameter
 or on the Datastore as a configuration attribute) and then developing the
 DS/TM drivers further to accommodate this option be worth the effort?  I
 can see use cases for both (separate images vs. cloned images having to
 rely on the base image), but cloned images are WAY faster to deploy.

 I have the basic code for format 2 images, I think the logic for looking
 up the parameter/attribute and then applying appropriate action should be
 rather simple.  Could collaborate/share if you'd like.

 --
 *From: *Kenneth kenn...@apolloglobal.net
 *To: *users@lists.opennebula.org
 *Sent: *Thursday, December 12, 2013 6:11:15 AM
 *Subject: *Re: [one-users] Ceph and thin provision


 Yes, that is possible. But as I said, all my images were all preallocated
 as I haven't created any image from sunstone.


 ---

 Thanks,
 Kenneth
 Apollo Global Corp.

 On 12/12/2013 06:25 PM, Michael wrote:

 This doesn't appear to be the case, I've 2TB of images on Ceph and 380GB
 data reported by Ceph (760G after replication). All of these Ceph images
 were created through the Opennebula Sunstone template GUI.

 -Michael

 On 12/12/2013 09:11, Kenneth wrote:

 I haven't tried creating a thin or thick provision in ceph rbd from
 scratch. So basically, I can say that a 100GB disk will consume 100GB RBD
 in ceph (of course it will be 200GB in ceph storage since ceph duplicates
 the disks by default).

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Re: [one-users] Ceph and thin provision

2013-12-12 Thread Mario Giammarco
In several virtualization systems you can have a virtual disk drive:

-thick, so a thick disk of 100gb uses 100gb of space;
-thin,  so a thin disk of 100gb uses 0gb when empty and starts using space
when the virtual machine fills it.

So I can have a real hdd of 250gb with inside ten virtual thin disks of
1000gb each, if they are almost empty.

I have checked again and ceph rbd are thin.

BTW: I thank you for you explanation of persistent/not persistent, I was
not able to find it in docs. Can you explain me also what a volatile disk
is?
A not persistent image is writeable?
When you reboot a vm with a not persistent image you lose all datda written
to it?

Thanks again,
Mario


2013/12/12 Kenneth kenn...@apolloglobal.net

  Hi,

 Can you elaborate more on what you want to achieve?

 If you have a 100GB image and it is set to persistent, you can instantiate
 that image immediately and deploy/live migrate it to any nebula node. Only
 one running instance of VM of this image is allowed.

 If it is a 100GB non persistent image, you'll have to wait for ceph to
 create a copy of it once you deploy it. But you can use this image
 multiple times simutaneously.
 ---

 Thanks,
 Kenneth
 Apollo Global Corp.

  On 12/11/2013 07:28 PM, Mario Giammarco wrote:

   Hello,
 I am using ceph with opennebula.
 I have created a 100gb disk image and I do not understand if it is thin or
 thick.

 I hope I can have thin provision.

 Thanks,
 Mario

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Re: [one-users] Ceph and thin provision

2013-12-12 Thread Kenneth
 

I haven't tested much on non-persistent image as I have no use on
them unless on experiments. Also, I haven't tried any volatile image,
sorry. 

_A not persistent image is writeable?_ 

Short answer: NO


Long answer: Yes, sort of. When you instantiate a non persistent
image, nebula create a another disk in the background temporarily. You
can check that on when you issue rbd ls -p one. You'll see something
like this. 

one-34 --- this is the non persistent image
disk
one-34-73-0  this is the temporary clone of the disk
when you instantiate a VM
one-34-80-0 - another VM which uses
the non persistent image one-34 

This is why you can instantiate two or
more VMs using a non-persistent image. If I'm not mistaken, the
temporary disk will be destoyed once you shutdown the VM from nebula
sunstone. But as long as the VM is running, the data is there. You can
even reboot the VM with non-persistent disk and still have data. You
lose the data once Nebula destroys VM disk, that is, when you SHUTDOWN
or DELETE the VM from nebula sunstone. 

As for thick and thin
provision, all of my images in ceph are thick, because my base image is
25 GB disk from a KVM template and then I imported it in ceph (it was
converted from qcow2 to rbd). It consumes whole 25GB on my ceph storage.
I just clone that template image every time I deploy a new VM. 

I
haven't tried creating a thin or thick provision in ceph rbd from
scratch. So basically, I can say that a 100GB disk will consume 100GB
RBD in ceph (of course it will be 200GB in ceph storage since ceph
duplicates the disks by default). 
---

Thanks,
Kenneth
Apollo Global
Corp.

On 12/12/2013 04:52 PM, Mario Giammarco wrote: 

 In several
virtualization systems you can have a virtual disk drive:
 
 -thick,
so a thick disk of 100gb uses 100gb of space; -thin, so a thin disk of
100gb uses 0gb when empty and starts using space when the virtual
machine fills it.
 
 So I can have a real hdd of 250gb with inside ten
virtual thin disks of 1000gb each, if they are almost empty. 
 I have
checked again and ceph rbd are thin. 
 
 BTW: I thank you for you
explanation of persistent/not persistent, I was not able to find it in
docs. Can you explain me also what a volatile disk is? 
 A not
persistent image is writeable? When you reboot a vm with a not
persistent image you lose all datda written to it?
 
 Thanks again,

Mario 
 
 2013/12/12 Kenneth kenn...@apolloglobal.net
 
 Hi, 


 Can you elaborate more on what you want to achieve? 
 
 If you
have a 100GB image and it is set to persistent, you can instantiate that
image immediately and deploy/live migrate it to any nebula node. Only
one running instance of VM of this image is allowed. 
 
 If it is a
100GB non persistent image, you'll have to wait for ceph to create a
copy of it once you deploy it. But you can use this image multiple
times simutaneously. 
 ---
 
 Thanks,
 Kenneth
 Apollo Global
Corp.
 
 On 12/11/2013 07:28 PM, Mario Giammarco wrote: 
 

Hello, I am using ceph with opennebula. I have created a 100gb disk
image and I do not understand if it is thin or thick.
 
 I hope I
can have thin provision.
 
 Thanks,
 Mario 
 

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Re: [one-users] Ceph and thin provision

2013-12-12 Thread Michael
This doesn't appear to be the case, I've 2TB of images on Ceph and 380GB 
data reported by Ceph (760G after replication). All of these Ceph images 
were created through the Opennebula Sunstone template GUI.


-Michael

On 12/12/2013 09:11, Kenneth wrote:
I haven't tried creating a thin or thick provision in ceph rbd from 
scratch. So basically, I can say that a 100GB disk will consume 100GB 
RBD in ceph (of course it will be 200GB in ceph storage since ceph 
duplicates the disks by default).


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Re: [one-users] Ceph and thin provision

2013-12-12 Thread Kenneth
 

Yes, that is possible. But as I said, all my images were all
preallocated as I haven't created any image from sunstone.


---

Thanks,
Kenneth
Apollo Global Corp.

On 12/12/2013 06:25 PM,
Michael wrote: 

 This doesn't appear to be the case, I've 2TB of
images on Ceph and 380GB 
 data reported by Ceph (760G after
replication). All of these Ceph images 
 were created through the
Opennebula Sunstone template GUI.
 
 -Michael
 
 On 12/12/2013
09:11, Kenneth wrote:
 
 I haven't tried creating a thin or thick
provision in ceph rbd from scratch. So basically, I can say that a 100GB
disk will consume 100GB RBD in ceph (of course it will be 200GB in ceph
storage since ceph duplicates the disks by default).
 

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Re: [one-users] Ceph and thin provision

2013-12-12 Thread Campbell, Bill
Ceph's RBD Format 2 images support the copy-on-write clones/snapshots for quick 
provisioning, where essentially the following happens: 

Snapshot of Image created -- Snapshot protected from deletion -- Clone image 
created from snapshot 

The protected snapshot acts as a base image for the clone, where only the 
additional data is stored in the clone. See more here: 
http://ceph.com/docs/master/rbd/rbd-snapshot/#layering 


For our environment here I have modified the included datastore/tm drivers for 
Ceph to take advantage of these format 2 images/layering for Non-Persistent 
images. It works rather well, and all image functions work appropriately for 
non-persistent images (save as, etc.). One note/requirement is to be using a 
newer Ceph release (recommend Dumpling or newer) and newer versions of 
QEMU/Libvirt (there were some bugs in older releases, but the versions from 
Ubuntu Cloud Archive for 12.04 work fine). I did submit them for improvement 
prior to the 4.0 release, but the simple format 1 images are the default 
currently for OpenNebula. 

I think this would be a good question for the developers. Would creating the 
option for Format 2 images (either in the image template as a parameter or on 
the Datastore as a configuration attribute) and then developing the DS/TM 
drivers further to accommodate this option be worth the effort? I can see use 
cases for both (separate images vs. cloned images having to rely on the base 
image), but cloned images are WAY faster to deploy. 

I have the basic code for format 2 images, I think the logic for looking up the 
parameter/attribute and then applying appropriate action should be rather 
simple. Could collaborate/share if you'd like. 

- Original Message -

From: Kenneth kenn...@apolloglobal.net 
To: users@lists.opennebula.org 
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 6:11:15 AM 
Subject: Re: [one-users] Ceph and thin provision 



Yes, that is possible. But as I said, all my images were all preallocated as I 
haven't created any image from sunstone. 


--- 
Thanks,
Kenneth 
Apollo Global Corp. 


On 12/12/2013 06:25 PM, Michael wrote: 


This doesn't appear to be the case, I've 2TB of images on Ceph and 380GB 
data reported by Ceph (760G after replication). All of these Ceph images 
were created through the Opennebula Sunstone template GUI.

-Michael

On 12/12/2013 09:11, Kenneth wrote: 

blockquote
I haven't tried creating a thin or thick provision in ceph rbd from scratch. So 
basically, I can say that a 100GB disk will consume 100GB RBD in ceph (of 
course it will be 200GB in ceph storage since ceph duplicates the disks by 
default). 


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/blockquote

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Re: [one-users] Ceph and thin provision

2013-12-12 Thread Campbell, Bill
Kenneth, 
The allocation of images consuming the total image size looks to be a bug in 
Ceph: 

http://tracker.ceph.com/issues/6257 

They've identified, but doesn't look like there's been any movement on it since 
the bug was opened. 

- Original Message -

From: Kenneth kenn...@apolloglobal.net 
To: Mario Giammarco mgiamma...@gmail.com 
Cc: users@lists.opennebula.org 
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 4:11:17 AM 
Subject: Re: [one-users] Ceph and thin provision 



I haven't tested much on non-persistent image as I have no use on them unless 
on experiments. Also, I haven't tried any volatile image, sorry. 

A not persistent image is writeable? 

Short answer: NO 

Long answer: Yes, sort of. When you instantiate a non persistent image, nebula 
create a another disk in the background temporarily. You can check that on 
when you issue rbd ls -p one. You'll see something like this. 

one-34 --- this is the non persistent image disk 
one-34-73-0  this is the temporary clone of the disk when you 
instantiate a VM 
one-34-80-0 - another VM which uses the non persistent image one-34 

This is why you can instantiate two or more VMs using a non-persistent image. 
If I'm not mistaken, the temporary disk will be destoyed once you shutdown the 
VM from nebula sunstone. But as long as the VM is running, the data is there. 
You can even reboot the VM with non-persistent disk and still have data. You 
lose the data once Nebula destroys VM disk, that is, when you SHUTDOWN or 
DELETE the VM from nebula sunstone. 

As for thick and thin provision, all of my images in ceph are thick, because my 
base image is 25 GB disk from a KVM template and then I imported it in ceph (it 
was converted from qcow2 to rbd). It consumes whole 25GB on my ceph storage. I 
just clone that template image every time I deploy a new VM. 

I haven't tried creating a thin or thick provision in ceph rbd from scratch. So 
basically, I can say that a 100GB disk will consume 100GB RBD in ceph (of 
course it will be 200GB in ceph storage since ceph duplicates the disks by 
default). 
--- 
Thanks,
Kenneth 
Apollo Global Corp. 


On 12/12/2013 04:52 PM, Mario Giammarco wrote: 


In several virtualization systems you can have a virtual disk drive: 

-thick, so a thick disk of 100gb uses 100gb of space; 
-thin, so a thin disk of 100gb uses 0gb when empty and starts using space when 
the virtual machine fills it. 

So I can have a real hdd of 250gb with inside ten virtual thin disks of 1000gb 
each, if they are almost empty. 
I have checked again and ceph rbd are thin. 

BTW: I thank you for you explanation of persistent/not persistent, I was not 
able to find it in docs. Can you explain me also what a volatile disk is? 
A not persistent image is writeable? 
When you reboot a vm with a not persistent image you lose all datda written to 
it? 

Thanks again, 
Mario 


2013/12/12 Kenneth  kenn...@apolloglobal.net  

blockquote



Hi, 

Can you elaborate more on what you want to achieve? 

If you have a 100GB image and it is set to persistent, you can instantiate that 
image immediately and deploy/live migrate it to any nebula node. Only one 
running instance of VM of this image is allowed. 

If it is a 100GB non persistent image, you'll have to wait for ceph to create 
a copy of it once you deploy it. But you can use this image multiple times 
simutaneously. 
--- 
Thanks,
Kenneth 
Apollo Global Corp. 


On 12/11/2013 07:28 PM, Mario Giammarco wrote: 

blockquote

Hello, 
I am using ceph with opennebula. 
I have created a 100gb disk image and I do not understand if it is thin or 
thick. 

I hope I can have thin provision. 

Thanks, 
Mario 
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/blockquote


/blockquote

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Re: [one-users] Ceph and thin provision

2013-12-12 Thread Kenneth
 

This all is good news. And I think this will solve my problem of a
bit slow (a few minutes) of deploying a VM, that is cloning is really
time consuming. 

Although I really like this RBD format 2, I'm not
quite adept yet on how to implement it in nebula. And my ceph version is
dumpling 0.67, does it support rbd format 2? 

 If you have any docs,
I'd greatly appreciate it. Or rather I'm willing to wait a little
longer, maybe on the next release of nebula(?), to make rbd format 2 to
be the default format? 
---

Thanks,
Kenneth
Apollo Global Corp.

On
12/12/2013 09:48 PM, Campbell, Bill wrote: 

 Ceph's RBD Format 2
images support the copy-on-write clones/snapshots for quick
provisioning, where essentially the following happens: 
 
 Snapshot of
Image created -- Snapshot protected from deletion -- Clone image
created from snapshot 
 
 The protected snapshot acts as a base image
for the clone, where only the additional data is stored in the clone.
See more here: http://ceph.com/docs/master/rbd/rbd-snapshot/#layering
[2] 
 
 For our environment here I have modified the included
datastore/tm drivers for Ceph to take advantage of these format 2
images/layering for Non-Persistent images. It works rather well, and all
image functions work appropriately for non-persistent images (save as,
etc.). One note/requirement is to be using a newer Ceph release
(recommend Dumpling or newer) and newer versions of QEMU/Libvirt (there
were some bugs in older releases, but the versions from Ubuntu Cloud
Archive for 12.04 work fine). I did submit them for improvement prior to
the 4.0 release, but the simple format 1 images are the default
currently for OpenNebula. 
 
 I think this would be a good question
for the developers. Would creating the option for Format 2 images
(either in the image template as a parameter or on the Datastore as a
configuration attribute) and then developing the DS/TM drivers further
to accommodate this option be worth the effort? I can see use cases for
both (separate images vs. cloned images having to rely on the base
image), but cloned images are WAY faster to deploy. 
 
 I have the
basic code for format 2 images, I think the logic for looking up the
parameter/attribute and then applying appropriate action should be
rather simple. Could collaborate/share if you'd like. 
 

-
 
 FROM: Kenneth
kenn...@apolloglobal.net
 TO: users@lists.opennebula.org
 SENT:
Thursday, December 12, 2013 6:11:15 AM
 SUBJECT: Re: [one-users] Ceph
and thin provision
 
 Yes, that is possible. But as I said, all my
images were all preallocated as I haven't created any image from
sunstone. 
 
 ---
 
 Thanks,
 Kenneth
 Apollo Global Corp.
 
 On
12/12/2013 06:25 PM, Michael wrote: 
 
 This doesn't appear to be the
case, I've 2TB of images on Ceph and 380GB 
 data reported by Ceph
(760G after replication). All of these Ceph images 
 were created
through the Opennebula Sunstone template GUI.
 
 -Michael
 
 On
12/12/2013 09:11, Kenneth wrote:
 
 I haven't tried creating a thin
or thick provision in ceph rbd from scratch. So basically, I can say
that a 100GB disk will consume 100GB RBD in ceph (of course it will be
200GB in ceph storage since ceph duplicates the disks by default).


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Re: [one-users] Ceph and thin provision

2013-12-12 Thread Campbell, Bill
Yes, Dumpling supports format 2 images (I think Bobtail 0.56 was the first 
release that did). 

I'll be submitting my modified driver to the development team for 
inclusion/modification (ideally we should be able to select which format we 
want to use, so further modifications would be necessary) and hopefully it 
would be included in the next version. 

In the interim, I can share with you the drivers we are using, but be advised 
this would be UNSUPPORTED by the OpenNebula development/support team. It has 
been working rather well for us though. 

- Original Message -

From: Kenneth kenn...@apolloglobal.net 
To: Bill Campbell bcampb...@axcess-financial.com 
Cc: users@lists.opennebula.org 
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 9:29:49 AM 
Subject: Re: [one-users] Ceph and thin provision 



This all is good news. And I think this will solve my problem of a bit slow (a 
few minutes) of deploying a VM, that is cloning is really time consuming. 

Although I really like this RBD format 2, I'm not quite adept yet on how to 
implement it in nebula. And my ceph version is dumpling 0.67, does it support 
rbd format 2? 

If you have any docs, I'd greatly appreciate it. Or rather I'm willing to wait 
a little longer, maybe on the next release of nebula(?), to make rbd format 2 
to be the default format? 
--- 
Thanks,
Kenneth 
Apollo Global Corp. 


On 12/12/2013 09:48 PM, Campbell, Bill wrote: 


Ceph's RBD Format 2 images support the copy-on-write clones/snapshots for quick 
provisioning, where essentially the following happens: 
Snapshot of Image created -- Snapshot protected from deletion -- Clone image 
created from snapshot 
The protected snapshot acts as a base image for the clone, where only the 
additional data is stored in the clone. See more here: 
http://ceph.com/docs/master/rbd/rbd-snapshot/#layering 
For our environment here I have modified the included datastore/tm drivers for 
Ceph to take advantage of these format 2 images/layering for Non-Persistent 
images. It works rather well, and all image functions work appropriately for 
non-persistent images (save as, etc.). One note/requirement is to be using a 
newer Ceph release (recommend Dumpling or newer) and newer versions of 
QEMU/Libvirt (there were some bugs in older releases, but the versions from 
Ubuntu Cloud Archive for 12.04 work fine). I did submit them for improvement 
prior to the 4.0 release, but the simple format 1 images are the default 
currently for OpenNebula. 
I think this would be a good question for the developers. Would creating the 
option for Format 2 images (either in the image template as a parameter or on 
the Datastore as a configuration attribute) and then developing the DS/TM 
drivers further to accommodate this option be worth the effort? I can see use 
cases for both (separate images vs. cloned images having to rely on the base 
image), but cloned images are WAY faster to deploy. 
I have the basic code for format 2 images, I think the logic for looking up the 
parameter/attribute and then applying appropriate action should be rather 
simple. Could collaborate/share if you'd like. 
- Original Message -

From: Kenneth kenn...@apolloglobal.net 
To: users@lists.opennebula.org 
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 6:11:15 AM 
Subject: Re: [one-users] Ceph and thin provision 


Yes, that is possible. But as I said, all my images were all preallocated as I 
haven't created any image from sunstone. 


--- 
Thanks,
Kenneth 
Apollo Global Corp. 


On 12/12/2013 06:25 PM, Michael wrote: 
blockquote

This doesn't appear to be the case, I've 2TB of images on Ceph and 380GB 
data reported by Ceph (760G after replication). All of these Ceph images 
were created through the Opennebula Sunstone template GUI.

-Michael

On 12/12/2013 09:11, Kenneth wrote: 

blockquote
I haven't tried creating a thin or thick provision in ceph rbd from scratch. So 
basically, I can say that a 100GB disk will consume 100GB RBD in ceph (of 
course it will be 200GB in ceph storage since ceph duplicates the disks by 
default). 


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[one-users] Ceph and thin provision

2013-12-11 Thread Mario Giammarco
Hello,
I am using ceph with opennebula.
I have created a 100gb disk image and I do not understand if it is thin or
thick.

I hope I can have thin provision.

Thanks,
Mario
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Re: [one-users] Ceph and thin provision

2013-12-11 Thread Kenneth
 

Hi, 

Can you elaborate more on what you want to achieve? 

If you
have a 100GB image and it is set to persistent, you can instantiate that
image immediately and deploy/live migrate it to any nebula node. Only
one running instance of VM of this image is allowed. 

If it is a 100GB
non persistent image, you'll have to wait for ceph to create a copy of
it once you deploy it. But you can use this image multiple times
simutaneously. 
---

Thanks,
Kenneth
Apollo Global Corp.

On 12/11/2013
07:28 PM, Mario Giammarco wrote: 

 Hello, I am using ceph with
opennebula. I have created a 100gb disk image and I do not understand if
it is thin or thick.
 
 I hope I can have thin provision.
 

Thanks,
 Mario 
 
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