Re: Winding OpenOffice down
TAP General wrote: Apache OpenOffice works just fine for me. Frequent addition of new features seems not to be necessary. Do you find that OpenOffice is not being updated as necessary to work with new releases of operating systems? Is something else of importance being neglected? More work on OO Documentation would be useful. An automated system for checking the integrity of downloaded versions would be nice. We have rebooted the documentation effort and are now writing the user documentation using AOO Writer. If you are interested in helping with the effort you can subscribed to the documentation website and we can get you started. You can subscribe to the list by sending a blank e-mail to doc-subscr...@openoffice.apache.org. You should receive a reply which could end up in your spam folder, so be sure to check there. Just reply to that e-mail and you will get a reply back that you are subscribed.Then introduce yourself to the list and we will get you started. Regards Keith - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Suggestion relating to installing and updating Apache Open Office - was - Re: Winding OpenOffice down
On 23/6/22 7:36 pm, Peter Kovacs wrote: Hello Flaviu Am 22.06.22 um 23:30 schrieb Flaviu Tamas: Why hasn't OpenOffice been wound down & shuttered? I can only explain my view on this. I am an AOO committer because people use AOO. And more often then not they are aware on the market, and they did decide on Apache OpenOffice. Winding down the project would mean that the people will most likely to use an abandoned software. We still see updates from 3.x Versions. So for me it is the right thing to continue the project and keep it alive as long as people use the software and we people volunteer to work on it. I think it would be damaging if the current team would quit the OpenSource development. Especially OpenOffice shows a resilience that is remarkable and a recommendation for OpenSource in comparison to closed source. The existence of the website makes users assume that OpenOffice is still actively being developed, when those users would be much better served migrating to LibreOffice. There is no discussion with LO on a migration path. I've seen this conversation several times over the past few years in various open source communities. Which is a bubble discussion. With no relevance or power of solution. From my perspective is the only orderly way a project merge. AFAIK there is no interest on LO side to discuss this path. So there is no point to follow this up. If LO Community is willing to talk they know how to start the discussion. From my perspective the ball is in their half (as we Germans say) At the very least, a prominent notice that users should use LibreOffice on the main OpenOffice site would be nice. My dedication is to AOO. I am still open to discuss a merge. And this will remain. But my dedication is to AOO and the users who decided to use AOO with all its pros and cons. I am not in favor in promoting any other specific project like LO as long there are active committers. If the move to attic becomes relevant again we can discuss this point. But I would favor an open approach that enables Users to make their own discussion, then dominate them with a predefined decision. But currently I see no need. We getting slowly better in fixing stuff and moving forward. All the best Peter Kovacs Hello. Apart from the thread on the mailing list, having apparently been started as a troll, it caused me to check, and, I have LibreOffice installed, and, not Apache Open Office, and, Apache Open Office cannot be found by Synaptic (I am running UbuntuMATE Linux 20.10, on this computer). In viewing the web page at https://www.openoffice.org/download/common/instructions.html#linux which has " Linux Installations Linux Pre-installation Notes The following preinstallation steps are recommended for Linux distributions. These should be taken to assure that you have a clean install of Apache OpenOffice due to internal considerations and/or the installation of LibreOffice, if it exists, on your system. Check to see if LibreOffice has re-routed the OpenOffice binary. Type "whereis soffice" from a console. If this is symlinked to libreoffice, remove the symlink. (see your favorite reference for how to do this) This will NOT remove LibreOffice, this will only disallow LibreOffice to redirect the normal OpenOffice binary -- typically /usr/bin/soffice -- to libreoffice instead. Due to directory structure changes in Apache OpenOffice 4.x versions, your older Openoffice 3.x should be deleted entirely by a new install or update process. This is normal. If you experience problems using the "update" process, please remove the old OpenOffice 3.x packages manually. If you have been testing one of the older developer snapshots, not the released version, revision 150370, completely remove this old version before attempting a new install or update. See java requirements. " I ran "whereis soffice", got " Thu Jun 23 21:50:27 bret@bret-MD34045-2521:~$whereis soffice soffice: /usr/bin/soffice Thu Jun 23 22:22:30 bret@bret-MD34045-2521:~$ls /usr/bin/soffice /usr/bin/soffice " so ran cat /usr/bin/soffice, and, the file is about four and a half screens long. I am wondering whether it would be possible, to develop a simple method of installing Apache Open Office, using a system package manager (something like apt or synaptic, or the Ubuntu "Software" utility, by creating a repository that could be included in the /etc/apt/sources file (or, as a particular file, in /etc/apt/sources.d, that could be used for installing and updating, as new versions become available), so that less skilled users, like me, could simply add the repository, then use a system package manager, to install and update Apache Open Office, and, with the installation/updating process, bypassing (using an alternative to) /usr/bin/soffice, perhaps, using instead, something like /usr/bin/aoffice (or, /usr/bin/aoo). If, in considering this, the
Re: Winding OpenOffice down
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LibreOffice LibreOffice (LO) Apache OpenOffice (AOO) This is from my memory and I am not checking my facts, so here it goes: I was under the impression that AOO still has contributors The original split was based on ideology, not sure if that is still the case. I will concede that LO has had much more development than AOO. I am not sure if that is why most Linux distros use LO rather than AOO or if that is also based on ideology; never cared enough to look into it. I won’t bother with the entire history of AOO / LO, but, some people did not like the license used by AOO. At the time, it was not owned by Apache, I think it was owned by Oracle after Oracle purchased Sun Micro-Systems. In other words, the split was based in ideology (disagreement with the license). So LO forked from OpenOffice.org with their own license. Obviously they had to rewrite certain things to go with their license of choice. Soms is outlined at the Wiki page mentioned above. LibreOffice License https://www.libreoffice.org/about-us/licenses GPL / LGPL V3+ and Mozilla Public License v2.0 Apache OpenOffice License https://www.openoffice.org/license.html ASL I am not sure it is a correct characterization and I am not going to spend time reading through all the license stuff, but I heard it summarized as follows: LO's license will allow the developer to own the coding they are sharing with the project, where AOO's really will give that project the ownership of the coding. Whether or not the "wording" is stating that, that is what most developers I have "talked" with have told me. Without looking it up, I would have characterized the difference noting that ASL is more permissive than GPL. Specifically, if you modify or use GPL code the new code is GPL. Because of this, most companies forbid the use of GPL code to be used with code that they develop (or their code becomes GPL), which is kind of the point of the GPL. The code that I release (as in not for my employer) I release on a very permissive license, but that also means that others can take my code and sell it after minor modifications. LO immediately gained lots of traction with many contributors while Oracle decided what to do with OOo and then they eventually handed it over to Apache. Initially, the documentation group was working with both LO and AOO, but there was a falling out between the person leading the group and some people with AOO. I never fully understood the disagreement but noted that the primary individual indicated that they would no longer work on AOO documentation so the group producing LO documentation mostly abandoned AOO but are still strongly working on LO documentation. On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 17:30 EDT, Flaviu Tamas wrote: Why hasn't OpenOffice been wound down & shuttered? The existence of the website makes users assume that OpenOffice is still actively being developed, when those users would be much better served migrating to LibreOffice. I've seen this conversation several times over the past few years in various open source communities. At the very least, a prominent notice that users should use LibreOffice on the main OpenOffice site would be nice. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Winding OpenOffice down
The best job goes to the person who can get it done without passing the buck or coming back with excuses. ~~ Napoleon Hill -Original Message- From: Flaviu Tamas To: users@openoffice.apache.org Sent: Thu, Jun 23, 2022 8:21 am Subject: Re: Winding OpenOffice down I'm sorry. I didn't think that some people were passionate about OpenOffice, and obviously that's not true. With that in mind, my original comment is snarky and non-productive. Thank you for noticing! * Peter: I really appreciate your comment here. > I can only explain my view on this. I am an AOO committer because people > use AOO. > ... > So > for me it is the right thing to continue the project and keep it alive > as long as people use the software and we people volunteer to work on > it. That's very noble, and I can definitely understand that line of thinking on why to keep contributing. > And more often then not they are aware on the market, and they > did decide on Apache OpenOffice. My prior beliefs make me assume otherwise, but there's no sense in arguing here without data. It would be possible to collect this data with a short survey on the OpenOffice download page, if someone was so inclined. > Which is a bubble discussion. It is a bubble, but I believe it is a much larger and more diverse bubble than here. > With no relevance or power of solution. You are of course correct. > From my perspective is the only orderly way a project merge. AFAIK > there is no interest on LO side to discuss this path. So there is no > point to follow this up. > > If LO Community is willing to talk they know how to start the > discussion. From my perspective the ball is in their half (as we Germans > say) I see. I don't represent the LO community in any way. But I believe that LibreOffice believes that the ball is in your court, with the open letter at https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2020/10/12/open-letter-to-apache-openoffice/. But I'm also not sure there's any path forward here for a merge, at least on the code side (my specialty). Comparing the current Libreoffice code to 2011, where OpenOffice and Libreoffice split, 134913 files changed, 12818118 insertions(+), 282429 deletions(-) > I am not in favor in promoting any other specific project like LO as > long there are active committers. If the move to attic becomes relevant > again we can discuss this point. But I would favor an open approach that > enables Users to make their own discussion, then dominate them with a > predefined decision. But currently I see no need. We getting slowly > better in fixing stuff and moving forward. I understand. I'm glad things are getting better for the people who are using OpenOffice. To be clear, I'm not stuck on LO specifically. But office suites are horrifically expensive and complicated to develop, and unfortunately there's not many open source options on the market. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Winding OpenOffice down
I'm sorry. I didn't think that some people were passionate about OpenOffice, and obviously that's not true. With that in mind, my original comment is snarky and non-productive. Peter: I really appreciate your comment here. > I can only explain my view on this. I am an AOO committer because people > use AOO. > ... > So > for me it is the right thing to continue the project and keep it alive > as long as people use the software and we people volunteer to work on > it. That's very noble, and I can definitely understand that line of thinking on why to keep contributing. > And more often then not they are aware on the market, and they > did decide on Apache OpenOffice. My prior beliefs make me assume otherwise, but there's no sense in arguing here without data. It would be possible to collect this data with a short survey on the OpenOffice download page, if someone was so inclined. > Which is a bubble discussion. It is a bubble, but I believe it is a much larger and more diverse bubble than here. > With no relevance or power of solution. You are of course correct. > From my perspective is the only orderly way a project merge. AFAIK > there is no interest on LO side to discuss this path. So there is no > point to follow this up. > > If LO Community is willing to talk they know how to start the > discussion. From my perspective the ball is in their half (as we Germans > say) I see. I don't represent the LO community in any way. But I believe that LibreOffice believes that the ball is in your court, with the open letter at https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2020/10/12/open-letter-to-apache-openoffice/. But I'm also not sure there's any path forward here for a merge, at least on the code side (my specialty). Comparing the current Libreoffice code to 2011, where OpenOffice and Libreoffice split, 134913 files changed, 12818118 insertions(+), 282429 deletions(-) > I am not in favor in promoting any other specific project like LO as > long there are active committers. If the move to attic becomes relevant > again we can discuss this point. But I would favor an open approach that > enables Users to make their own discussion, then dominate them with a > predefined decision. But currently I see no need. We getting slowly > better in fixing stuff and moving forward. I understand. I'm glad things are getting better for the people who are using OpenOffice. To be clear, I'm not stuck on LO specifically. But office suites are horrifically expensive and complicated to develop, and unfortunately there's not many open source options on the market. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Winding OpenOffice down
Hello Flaviu Am 22.06.22 um 23:30 schrieb Flaviu Tamas: Why hasn't OpenOffice been wound down & shuttered? I can only explain my view on this. I am an AOO committer because people use AOO. And more often then not they are aware on the market, and they did decide on Apache OpenOffice. Winding down the project would mean that the people will most likely to use an abandoned software. We still see updates from 3.x Versions. So for me it is the right thing to continue the project and keep it alive as long as people use the software and we people volunteer to work on it. I think it would be damaging if the current team would quit the OpenSource development. Especially OpenOffice shows a resilience that is remarkable and a recommendation for OpenSource in comparison to closed source. The existence of the website makes users assume that OpenOffice is still actively being developed, when those users would be much better served migrating to LibreOffice. There is no discussion with LO on a migration path. I've seen this conversation several times over the past few years in various open source communities. Which is a bubble discussion. With no relevance or power of solution. From my perspective is the only orderly way a project merge. AFAIK there is no interest on LO side to discuss this path. So there is no point to follow this up. If LO Community is willing to talk they know how to start the discussion. From my perspective the ball is in their half (as we Germans say) At the very least, a prominent notice that users should use LibreOffice on the main OpenOffice site would be nice. My dedication is to AOO. I am still open to discuss a merge. And this will remain. But my dedication is to AOO and the users who decided to use AOO with all its pros and cons. I am not in favor in promoting any other specific project like LO as long there are active committers. If the move to attic becomes relevant again we can discuss this point. But I would favor an open approach that enables Users to make their own discussion, then dominate them with a predefined decision. But currently I see no need. We getting slowly better in fixing stuff and moving forward. All the best Peter Kovacs - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Winding OpenOffice down + post upgrade glitch
I have used LibreOffice on Linux fairly often over the past 12 years and occasionally on the Mac (my main computer), but I prefer OpenOffice on the Mac. LO seems to be more fully featured than OO and some of its features are better implemented than the same ones in OO, but overall I find OO easier to use (for what I use it for, others may disagree) despite a couple of annoying issues (the worst is the RH side panel popping out unwanted if you happen to click on its opening button when scrolling up or down or when resizing a window: the activator should be out of the way, in the top menu panel, or at least have an option to move it out of the way, maybe some people actually like the Jack-in-a-box). The less frequent updates of OO is a plus also, obviously we all want to be up to date with security but other than that I see no need for frequent updates of a bread-and-butter application that does the job you need it to do, unless there is a genuine improvement, like stopping the RH panel from being a Jack-in-the-box, or if it needs to be updated for compatibility with an OS update. So overall I am content to stay with OO rather than move to LO (I do have LO installed, but I rarely use it), and unless OO and LO can be successfully merged, with options to allow users to configure the merged app to work the way they want to work, I would not want to see OO “wound down and shuttered”. All Flaviu Tamas needs to do, after all, is to uninstall OO and use LO, problem solved for him without denying others what for them is a useful alternative. Who is he anyway, to try to dictate that we should all use the app he prefers? That seems pretty arrogant to me, he should not assume that he knows what is best for me better than I do. He is probably like my father, who used to say, when he owned a 1928 Dodge, “If you can’t afford a Dodge, dodge a Ford”, then changed it to, “If you can’t afford a Ford, dodge a Dodge” when he bought a 1953 Ford Customline, i.e. "I am such an expert that whatever I buy / have / use is automatically what everyone else should buy / have / use. Flaviu should just use the app he/she prefers and let others continue to have access to the one they prefer, and I am surprised that nobody else has told him/her that already. There is an annoying glitch in the recent OO Mac update that seems to make the case for not updating without good reason. When an OO document is opened now, the green update arrow appears in the main menu bar, but when you click on it it doesn’t work properly. For a while it opened an initially transparent Extension Manager window offering a Spelling dictionary when you clicked it visible, but clicking on it froze the application and it had to be Force Quit and reopened. The app's data recovery feature minimised data loss, but it was still a nuisance. I have been ignoring the green arrow to circumvent the problem, but have just tried it again (with a new document, so as not to risk compromising a real one), and now the problem seems to be half fixed, clicking on the green arrow in the main menu bar doesn’t do anything, not even offer a genuine extension update, so at least the app no longer freezes. But this is a good example of why I am normally a late updater, because new updates of the OS or an app often have glitches in them that I would much rather have discovered by other people than discover myself, hence my dislike of LO’s much more frequent updates, I haven’t had problems with them, but the more frequent they are the greater is the risk, so I prefer less frequent and better tested updates, and the glitch in recent OO update is a significant disappointment. PCS > On 23 Jun 2022, at 5:16 pm, Frank McIsaac wrote: > > Well said FC > > Regards > Snapafun - Frank > Rock'n'Rolling Forever > > On Thu, 23 Jun 2022, 6:20 pm Fernando Cassia, wrote: > >> On 22/06/2022, Flaviu Tamas wrote: >>> Why hasn't OpenOffice been wound down & shuttered? >>> >>> The existence of the website makes users assume that OpenOffice is >>> still actively being developed >> >> It is. >> >>> when those users would be much better >>> served migrating to LibreOffice. >> >> Speak for yourself. I for one wouldn' t touch LO with a 10ft pole. >> >>> I've seen this conversation several times over the past few years in >>> various open source communities. >> >> Cows see a lot of trains pass by while pasturing, and that doesn' t >> make the cows train engineers. >> >>> At the very least, a prominent notice that users should use >>> LibreOffice on the main OpenOffice site would be nice. >> >> Please, go away, >> >> FC >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org >> >> - To unsubscribe, e-mail:
Re: Winding OpenOffice down
On 23/06/2022, Bret Busby wrote: > On 23/6/22 2:20 pm, Fernando Cassia wrote: >> Cows see a lot of trains pass by while pasturing, and that doesn' t >> make the cows train engineers. > I like that. > > Are you the source of that one? Sadly, no. > That is a proverb worth quoting. > > If you are the source, and, you are not quoting someone else's proverb, > may we have your permission to quote it? I heard it from Fernando Martin Peña :)), a local film collector and historian, on his late night TV show, many, many years ago. Probably circa 2010. This guy https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4395159/ Cheers! FC - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Winding OpenOffice down
On 23/6/22 2:20 pm, Fernando Cassia wrote: Cows see a lot of trains pass by while pasturing, and that doesn' t make the cows train engineers. I like that. Are you the source of that one? That is a proverb worth quoting. If you are the source, and, you are not quoting someone else's proverb, may we have your permission to quote it? By the way, I am surprised that some list subscribers are feeding the troll that posted the original message in the thread... -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia (UTC+0800) .. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Winding OpenOffice down
Well said FC Regards Snapafun - Frank Rock'n'Rolling Forever On Thu, 23 Jun 2022, 6:20 pm Fernando Cassia, wrote: > On 22/06/2022, Flaviu Tamas wrote: > > Why hasn't OpenOffice been wound down & shuttered? > > > > The existence of the website makes users assume that OpenOffice is > > still actively being developed > > It is. > > > when those users would be much better > > served migrating to LibreOffice. > > Speak for yourself. I for one wouldn' t touch LO with a 10ft pole. > > > I've seen this conversation several times over the past few years in > > various open source communities. > > Cows see a lot of trains pass by while pasturing, and that doesn' t > make the cows train engineers. > > > At the very least, a prominent notice that users should use > > LibreOffice on the main OpenOffice site would be nice. > > Please, go away, > > FC > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org > >
Re: Winding OpenOffice down
On 22/06/2022, Flaviu Tamas wrote: > Why hasn't OpenOffice been wound down & shuttered? > > The existence of the website makes users assume that OpenOffice is > still actively being developed It is. > when those users would be much better > served migrating to LibreOffice. Speak for yourself. I for one wouldn' t touch LO with a 10ft pole. > I've seen this conversation several times over the past few years in > various open source communities. Cows see a lot of trains pass by while pasturing, and that doesn' t make the cows train engineers. > At the very least, a prominent notice that users should use > LibreOffice on the main OpenOffice site would be nice. Please, go away, FC - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Winding OpenOffice down
At 17:30 22/06/2022 -0400, Flaviu Tamas wrote: At the very least, a prominent notice that users should use LibreOffice on the main OpenOffice site would be nice. Here's a thought: perhaps you could start the process by arranging for a "prominent notice" that users should use OpenOffice on the main Microsoft Office site? Brian Barker - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Winding OpenOffice down
Apache OpenOffice works just fine for me. Frequent addition of new features seems not to be necessary. Do you find that OpenOffice is not being updated as necessary to work with new releases of operating systems? Is something else of importance being neglected? More work on OO Documentation would be useful. An automated system for checking the integrity of downloaded versions would be nice. -- *v/r, Tom Panfil eBureaucrat (Ret.) Congressmen should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers to identify their corporate sponsors **m-2015-mbp-15**general_user**verizon** * On 6/22/22 5:30 PM, Flaviu Tamas wrote: Why hasn't OpenOffice been wound down & shuttered? The existence of the website makes users assume that OpenOffice is still actively being developed, when those users would be much better served migrating to LibreOffice. I've seen this conversation several times over the past few years in various open source communities. At the very least, a prominent notice that users should use LibreOffice on the main OpenOffice site would be nice. - To unsubscribe, e-mail:users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail:users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
