Re: [ovirt-users] do we need some documentation mainteiners?

[Yedidyah Bar David]

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 8:50 AM, Yedidyah Bar David  wrote:
> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 8:07 PM, Juan Pablo  wrote:
>> I am!  =)
>> but Im dizzy on how/where to start.
>> suggestions/ideas are welcome
>
> Perhaps start by reading the readme file of the site:
>
> https://github.com/oVirt/ovirt-site
>
> and continue with "CONTRIBUTING.md" and "MAINTAINING.md" there.
>
> If you are new to git/github, you should probably read about them too,
> although for simply editing the web site the basics should be enough.
>
> Feel free to ask any questions - perhaps on de...@ovirt.org instead of
> here. Welcome and good luck!

I'd also like to take the opportunity and talk a bit about the content.

Many times people here refer to RHV documentation.
RHV documentation is indeed very good, but has a few problems, if you
consider "simply" copying from there:

1. It's RHV-specific. 99% of times this is irrelevant, but when it is,
RHV doc writers do not make any attempt to be oVirt-compatible. Examples:
It does not cover at all Fedora-specific issues, it did not cover in the
past use of oVirt 3.5 and 3.6 on EL7 (because RHV did not support that).

2. You should study well the legal notices included in the guides there.
The licenses for RHV documentation are quite different from the licenses
for the oVirt projects' source code.

3. It's written by writers, not developers. This means it's much more
organized, more-or-less complete, better written, but still might be
out-of-date or inaccurate.

4. It tends to be less detailed about feature internals, about things
that might break if you do not follow the doc, about non-standard
potential uses, etc. It's mostly intended for people that do things
"by the book" :-) It usually does not cover things that Red Hat
decided to not support, even if they mostly work.

Other sources for content one should consider, both for direct learning
and as a source for writing documentation:

1. Mailing list archives. Both users and devel can be useful.

2. Discussions on bugzilla bugs. Many times you can find there the most
accurate definition of what a feature does, how to test/use it, and how
it was verified.
When you do that, check if the bug is on oVirt or on RHV. In the past,
the distinction wasn't as accurate and not strictly followed, but in
recent versions we try to better make sure that bugs that are opened
on RHV and affect also oVirt are moved to oVirt. See also:

https://www.ovirt.org/develop/dev-process/bugzilla-rework/

3. Source code. In some parts it's rather easy to follow if you have
any experience dealing with source code, and in others you can at least
read the comments. This applies even if you never _wrote_ a single line
of source code in any programming language. when you decide to have a
look at the source code, you should do this by cloning the git projects,
not by downloading the tarballs or SRPMs. This way you win on two fronts:
a. You get at once the entire project history including all its versions,
in a single place.
b. You can then also search the git history and find out when something
was changed, comments about the change, etc.

4. gerrit. gerrit is our review tool, and all patches for the projects
maintained there go through it. This in many cases includes long
discussions between developers about what the patch actually should
do and how it should do that. In some cases you can also see there how
a patch was verified to do what it's supposed to do.
Sadly, gerrit review history isn't as easy to search as the other
sources above. Perhaps we should do something to make it easier as well.

>
>>
>> JP
>>
>> El 10/5/2017 12:20, "Barak Korren"  escribió:
>>>
>>> On 10 May 2017 at 14:18, Juan Pablo  wrote:
>>> > this was not the intention of the thread. so please stop throwing
>>> > bananas
>>> > each other.
>>> >
>>> > Lets focus on the subject here:do we need some documentation
>>> > mainteiners?
>>> > yes/no
>>>
>>> My answer would be definitely.
>>> If you are volunteering, you would be very welcome.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Barak Korren
>>> RHV DevOps team , RHCE, RHCi
>>> Red Hat EMEA
>>> redhat.com | TRIED. TESTED. TRUSTED. | redhat.com/trusted
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Users mailing list
>> Users@ovirt.org
>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Didi



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Re: [ovirt-users] do we need some documentation mainteiners?

[Yedidyah Bar David]

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 8:07 PM, Juan Pablo  wrote:
> I am!  =)
> but Im dizzy on how/where to start.
> suggestions/ideas are welcome

Perhaps start by reading the readme file of the site:

https://github.com/oVirt/ovirt-site

and continue with "CONTRIBUTING.md" and "MAINTAINING.md" there.

If you are new to git/github, you should probably read about them too,
although for simply editing the web site the basics should be enough.

Feel free to ask any questions - perhaps on de...@ovirt.org instead of
here. Welcome and good luck!

>
> JP
>
> El 10/5/2017 12:20, "Barak Korren"  escribió:
>>
>> On 10 May 2017 at 14:18, Juan Pablo  wrote:
>> > this was not the intention of the thread. so please stop throwing
>> > bananas
>> > each other.
>> >
>> > Lets focus on the subject here:do we need some documentation
>> > mainteiners?
>> > yes/no
>>
>> My answer would be definitely.
>> If you are volunteering, you would be very welcome.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Barak Korren
>> RHV DevOps team , RHCE, RHCi
>> Red Hat EMEA
>> redhat.com | TRIED. TESTED. TRUSTED. | redhat.com/trusted
>
>
> ___
> Users mailing list
> Users@ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>



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Re: [ovirt-users] do we need some documentation mainteiners?

[Juan Pablo]

I am!  =)
but Im dizzy on how/where to start.
suggestions/ideas are welcome

JP

El 10/5/2017 12:20, "Barak Korren"  escribió:

> On 10 May 2017 at 14:18, Juan Pablo  wrote:
> > this was not the intention of the thread. so please stop throwing bananas
> > each other.
> >
> > Lets focus on the subject here:do we need some documentation mainteiners?
> > yes/no
>
> My answer would be definitely.
> If you are volunteering, you would be very welcome.
>
>
> --
> Barak Korren
> RHV DevOps team , RHCE, RHCi
> Red Hat EMEA
> redhat.com | TRIED. TESTED. TRUSTED. | redhat.com/trusted
>
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Re: [ovirt-users] do we need some documentation mainteiners?

[Barak Korren]

On 10 May 2017 at 14:18, Juan Pablo  wrote:
> this was not the intention of the thread. so please stop throwing bananas
> each other.
>
> Lets focus on the subject here:do we need some documentation mainteiners?
> yes/no

My answer would be definitely.
If you are volunteering, you would be very welcome.


-- 
Barak Korren
RHV DevOps team , RHCE, RHCi
Red Hat EMEA
redhat.com | TRIED. TESTED. TRUSTED. | redhat.com/trusted
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Re: [ovirt-users] do we need some documentation mainteiners?

[Juan Pablo]

this was not the intention of the thread. so please stop throwing bananas
each other.

Lets focus on the subject here:do we need some documentation mainteiners?
yes/no

regards,
JP


2017-05-10 5:27 GMT-03:00 Fabrice Bacchella :

> I'm might be saying things in a harsh way, but there is a real big problem
> with public documentation at ovirt, especially the latest python sdk.
>
> I'm coding a python wrapper around the sdk4 and fighting a lot with
> documentation.
>
> First I tried to google:
> ovirt python sdk4
> ovirt python sdk 4
> ovirt rest api 4
>
> I was finally given http://ovirt.github.io/ovirt-engine-sdk/master, but
> http://ovirt.github.io returns a 404, the sdk is hidden under
> http://ovirt.github.io/ovirt-engine-sdk/, a mini-site that is barely
> usable, as it very hard to navigate between page. For example, when you're
> at : http://ovirt.github.io/ovirt-engine-sdk/master/version.m.html, how
> do you go to the first page ?
>
> If I try to gogle the title of this page, I found http://www.ovirt.org/
> develop/release-management/features/infra/python-sdk/ as first result and
> it's even not in the first page of results .
>
> Or you can have a look at https://access.redhat.com/
> documentation/en-us/red_hat_virtualization/4.1/html-
> single/python_sdk_guide/, that talks only about v3 sdk, which is
> deprecated.
>
> The python sdk change log:
> http://www.ovirt.org/develop/sdk/python-sdk-changelog/
>
> At pypi, no links to the sdk documentation
> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/ovirt-engine-sdk-python
>
> I requested the events codes, I was given that:
> https://github.com/oVirt/ovirt-engine/blob/master/backend/manager/modules/
> common/src/main/java/org/ovirt/engine/core/common/AuditLogType.java#L726
>
> Is there a formal list somewhere ?
>
> Le 10 mai 2017 à 08:21, Oved Ourfali  a écrit :
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 11:46 PM, Fabrice Bacchella  orange.fr> wrote:
>
>> I'm whining because ovirt is a wonderful product, peoples behind are
>> nice, but ho boy, what about the execution !
>>
>>
> I couldn't agree more with James here.
> It is good to whine, complain, and seek for improvements. We all want a
> better project!
> However, there are pleasant ways to express your thoughts and concerns.
> You seem to choose unpleasant ones, which are also unproductive and
> insulting to others.
> That can result in people not taking your thoughts and concerns in a
> serious way, as it is just unpleasant for them to read and reply to.
> I remember someone already sent you the community code of conduct [1]. I
> suggest you read that again before sharing your next post with us.
>
> Oved
>
> [1] https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/
>
> And no I have done much more than empty complains as I have open my share
>> a bug report, written a blog entry about using ovirt+kerberos+SSO, written
>> a full fledged CLI and trying to finished the SDK. So I'm not just
>> complaining.
>>
>> Le 9 mai 2017 à 22:28, James Michels  a
>> écrit :
>>
>> Seriously, what's wrong with you? I've being reading your comments for
>> some time and the only things I see are whining, unproductive complaining
>> and disrespectful comments.
>>
>> Please, stop it. There are tons of ways to say something, and the way you
>> use is insulting for dozens of people developing this project. Most people
>> here are seeking help and/or trying to be useful aiding others in what they
>> can. If you don't like oVirt or you have that much complains maybe you
>> should start your project yourself and do things like you consider they
>> should be done.
>>
>> James
>>
>> 2017-05-09 15:59 GMT+01:00 Fabrice Bacchella > >:
>>
>>> The documentation is alway a good laugh at ovirt. Look for RHEL instead.
>>>
>>> Le 9 mai 2017 à 16:13, Juan Pablo  a écrit :
>>>
>>> Team, Is just me or the documentation pages are not being updated ? many
>>> are outdated.. how can we collaborate?
>>>
>>> whats up with http://www.ovirt.org/documentation/admin-guide/ ?
>>>
>>> regards,
>>> JP
>>> ___
>>> Users mailing list
>>> Users@ovirt.org
>>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Users mailing list
>>> Users@ovirt.org
>>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>>
>>>
>> ___
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>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
>
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> 

Re: [ovirt-users] do we need some documentation mainteiners?

[Fabrice Bacchella]

I'm might be saying things in a harsh way, but there is a real big problem with 
public documentation at ovirt, especially the latest python sdk.

I'm coding a python wrapper around the sdk4 and fighting a lot with 
documentation. 

First I tried to google:
ovirt python sdk4
ovirt python sdk 4
ovirt rest api 4

I was finally given http://ovirt.github.io/ovirt-engine-sdk/master, but 
http://ovirt.github.io returns a 404, the sdk is hidden under 
http://ovirt.github.io/ovirt-engine-sdk/, a mini-site that is barely usable, as 
it very hard to navigate between page. For example, when you're at : 
http://ovirt.github.io/ovirt-engine-sdk/master/version.m.html, how do you go to 
the first page ?

If I try to gogle the title of this page, I found 
http://www.ovirt.org/develop/release-management/features/infra/python-sdk/ as 
first result and it's even not in the first page of results .

Or you can have a look at 
https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_virtualization/4.1/html-single/python_sdk_guide/,
 that talks only about v3 sdk, which is deprecated.

The python sdk change log:
http://www.ovirt.org/develop/sdk/python-sdk-changelog/

At pypi, no links to the sdk documentation
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/ovirt-engine-sdk-python

I requested the events codes, I was given that:
https://github.com/oVirt/ovirt-engine/blob/master/backend/manager/modules/common/src/main/java/org/ovirt/engine/core/common/AuditLogType.java#L726

Is there a formal list somewhere ?

> Le 10 mai 2017 à 08:21, Oved Ourfali  a écrit :
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 11:46 PM, Fabrice Bacchella 
> > wrote:
> I'm whining because ovirt is a wonderful product, peoples behind are nice, 
> but ho boy, what about the execution !
> 
> 
> I couldn't agree more with James here.
> It is good to whine, complain, and seek for improvements. We all want a 
> better project!
> However, there are pleasant ways to express your thoughts and concerns. You 
> seem to choose unpleasant ones, which are also unproductive and insulting to 
> others.
> That can result in people not taking your thoughts and concerns in a serious 
> way, as it is just unpleasant for them to read and reply to.
> I remember someone already sent you the community code of conduct [1]. I 
> suggest you read that again before sharing your next post with us.
> 
> Oved
>  
> [1] https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ 
> 
> 
> And no I have done much more than empty complains as I have open my share a 
> bug report, written a blog entry about using ovirt+kerberos+SSO, written a 
> full fledged CLI and trying to finished the SDK. So I'm not just complaining.
> 
>> Le 9 mai 2017 à 22:28, James Michels > > a écrit :
>> 
>> Seriously, what's wrong with you? I've being reading your comments for some 
>> time and the only things I see are whining, unproductive complaining and 
>> disrespectful comments.
>> 
>> Please, stop it. There are tons of ways to say something, and the way you 
>> use is insulting for dozens of people developing this project. Most people 
>> here are seeking help and/or trying to be useful aiding others in what they 
>> can. If you don't like oVirt or you have that much complains maybe you 
>> should start your project yourself and do things like you consider they 
>> should be done.
>> 
>> James
>> 
>> 2017-05-09 15:59 GMT+01:00 Fabrice Bacchella > >:
>> The documentation is alway a good laugh at ovirt. Look for RHEL instead.
>> 
>>> Le 9 mai 2017 à 16:13, Juan Pablo >> > a écrit :
>>> 
>>> Team, Is just me or the documentation pages are not being updated ? many 
>>> are outdated.. how can we collaborate? 
>>> 
>>> whats up with http://www.ovirt.org/documentation/admin-guide/ 
>>>  ?
>>> 
>>> regards,
>>> JP
>>> ___
>>> Users mailing list
>>> Users@ovirt.org 
>>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Users mailing list
>> Users@ovirt.org 
>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Users mailing list
>> Users@ovirt.org 
>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users 
>> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> 

Re: [ovirt-users] do we need some documentation mainteiners?

[Fabrice Bacchella]

I'm whining because ovirt is a wonderful product, peoples behind are nice, but 
ho boy, what about the execution !

And no I have done much more than empty complains as I have open my share a bug 
report, written a blog entry about using ovirt+kerberos+SSO, written a full 
fledged CLI and trying to finished the SDK. So I'm not just complaining.

> Le 9 mai 2017 à 22:28, James Michels  a 
> écrit :
> 
> Seriously, what's wrong with you? I've being reading your comments for some 
> time and the only things I see are whining, unproductive complaining and 
> disrespectful comments.
> 
> Please, stop it. There are tons of ways to say something, and the way you use 
> is insulting for dozens of people developing this project. Most people here 
> are seeking help and/or trying to be useful aiding others in what they can. 
> If you don't like oVirt or you have that much complains maybe you should 
> start your project yourself and do things like you consider they should be 
> done.
> 
> James
> 
> 2017-05-09 15:59 GMT+01:00 Fabrice Bacchella  >:
> The documentation is alway a good laugh at ovirt. Look for RHEL instead.
> 
>> Le 9 mai 2017 à 16:13, Juan Pablo > > a écrit :
>> 
>> Team, Is just me or the documentation pages are not being updated ? many are 
>> outdated.. how can we collaborate? 
>> 
>> whats up with http://www.ovirt.org/documentation/admin-guide/ 
>>  ?
>> 
>> regards,
>> JP
>> ___
>> Users mailing list
>> Users@ovirt.org 
>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users 
>> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [ovirt-users] do we need some documentation mainteiners?

[James Michels]

Seriously, what's wrong with you? I've being reading your comments for some
time and the only things I see are whining, unproductive complaining and
disrespectful comments.

Please, stop it. There are tons of ways to say something, and the way you
use is insulting for dozens of people developing this project. Most people
here are seeking help and/or trying to be useful aiding others in what they
can. If you don't like oVirt or you have that much complains maybe you
should start your project yourself and do things like you consider they
should be done.

James

2017-05-09 15:59 GMT+01:00 Fabrice Bacchella :

> The documentation is alway a good laugh at ovirt. Look for RHEL instead.
>
> Le 9 mai 2017 à 16:13, Juan Pablo  a écrit :
>
> Team, Is just me or the documentation pages are not being updated ? many
> are outdated.. how can we collaborate?
>
> whats up with http://www.ovirt.org/documentation/admin-guide/ ?
>
> regards,
> JP
> ___
> Users mailing list
> Users@ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [ovirt-users] do we need some documentation mainteiners?

[Yaniv Kaul]

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 5:59 PM, Fabrice Bacchella <
fabrice.bacche...@orange.fr> wrote:

> The documentation is alway a good laugh at ovirt. Look for RHEL instead.
>

After you finish laughing, you could improve it.
I have no doubt that you have both the skills as well as the experience and
knowledge using oVirt to do so and provide significant value to the
community.
Y.


>
> Le 9 mai 2017 à 16:13, Juan Pablo  a écrit :
>
> Team, Is just me or the documentation pages are not being updated ? many
> are outdated.. how can we collaborate?
>
> whats up with http://www.ovirt.org/documentation/admin-guide/ ?
>
> regards,
> JP
> ___
> Users mailing list
> Users@ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
>
>
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Re: [ovirt-users] do we need some documentation mainteiners?

[Juan Pablo]

what do you guys think on having a pdf/ html in the main upper canvas
"guide" button instead of pointing to http://www.ovirt.org/documentation/?
so that way everyone has the correct information for the correct version

regards,

2017-05-09 14:04 GMT-03:00 Jeff Burns :

>
> I've actually got the page up in Github and was about to make the quick
> edit to "fix it", but the proper administration guide link is already under
> "Primary Documentation".   Then I noticed the link under "Additional
> Documentation" appears to be a catch all for all directories/pages under
> the admin guide directory, with the other links under "Additional
> Documentation" being similar.  (and yes, that isn't working right as Juan
> pointed out).  It looks like the Additional Documentation links are a
> "Works as designed" more or less, but could definitely use some cleaning up
> in general?  I'd proceed as it looks like a quick cleanup, but I'm
> uncertain on design considerations here and the intent of the structure.  :)
>
> Cheers,
> Jeff
>
> On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 10:20 AM, Barak Korren  wrote:
>
>> On 9 May 2017 at 17:13, Juan Pablo  wrote:
>> > Team, Is just me or the documentation pages are not being updated ?
>> many are
>> > outdated.. how can we collaborate?
>>
>> Head over to GitHub:
>> https://github.com/oVirt/ovirt-site
>>
>> > whats up with http://www.ovirt.org/documentation/admin-guide/ ?
>>
>> Looks like a bad link on the site. There seems to be an administration
>> guide here:
>> http://www.ovirt.org/documentation/admin-guide/administration-guide/
>>
>> --
>> Barak Korren
>> RHV DevOps team , RHCE, RHCi
>> Red Hat EMEA
>> redhat.com | TRIED. TESTED. TRUSTED. | redhat.com/trusted
>> ___
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>>
>
>
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Re: [ovirt-users] do we need some documentation mainteiners?

[Fabrice Bacchella]

The documentation is alway a good laugh at ovirt. Look for RHEL instead.

> Le 9 mai 2017 à 16:13, Juan Pablo  a écrit :
> 
> Team, Is just me or the documentation pages are not being updated ? many are 
> outdated.. how can we collaborate? 
> 
> whats up with http://www.ovirt.org/documentation/admin-guide/ 
>  ?
> 
> regards,
> JP
> ___
> Users mailing list
> Users@ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users

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