[BSF,Tomcat] ad JSR-223 taglib for Tomcat ... (Re: Question ad alternative of BSF taglib in Tomcat ? [Fwd: In the move of some taglibs to Tomcat, the BSF taglib got retired]
Resending attempt. Hi Henri, relating to our conversation of last fall, I just wanted to point out that Mr. Ryabenkiy posts of today (copied at the end to inform the BSF-community) fulfills the idea of creating a jsr-223 taglib for Tomcat. He applies the Apache License 2.0 to his work, such that it can be taken on by ASF. The Quercus/Resin http://www.caucho.com/resin-3.0/quercus/tutorial/module/index.xtp package Mr. Ryabenkiy refers to is used in his work as proof of concept to use PHP scripts in Tomcat served JSP (which might be quite interesting for PHP-acquantied programmers, who have no expert knowledge of Java) ! (He also uses the scripting language ooRexx as a proof of concept for which he wrote a JSR-223 engine.) In effect all scripting languages can be used, that adhere to Java 6 scripting a.k.a. JSR-223 with his taglib to create scripts for JSP. It would even be possible to use multiple scripts in different languages for the same JSP. It will (again) allow for JSP and Java what ASP allows for the MS world. ---rony On 13.10.2009 08:17, Rony G. Flatscher (Apache) wrote: Henri Yandell wrote: Not sure where Christopher's email was, but: If there is any interest in a retired taglib, I'm all for it being merged into the Extended Taglib. Currently I plan to consider replacing the functionality from String Taglib (mostly as EL functions), Log Taglib and JNDI Taglib (perhaps). It sounds like BSF taglib, given it has only the two tags, might be very interesting if a dependency on BSF itself can be avoided (ie: base it on javax.script). +1 If you include just the taglib (the JSR-223 to be created), then its usage would be restricted to Java 6 and up, such that current Java 1.4 and 1.5 installations in the field could not take advantage of it. To cover Java 1.4 and 1.5 BSF 3.0 got created, which implements the javax.script specifications. If BSF 3.0 is included then the scripting support will be available from Java 1.4 on. Starting with Java 6 the Java 6 javax.script would prevail due to using its own package by placement of the classes. ---rony cut here, Mr. Ryabenskiy post of 2010-08-04 -- Original Message Subject:New taglib to script JSP pages in languages other than Java Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 09:49:20 +0200 From: Stanislav Ryabenkiy stani.ryaben...@gmail.com To: taglibs-u...@tomcat.apache.org, d...@tomcat.apache.org Hello, as I haven't posted here before, I hope I won't make a mistake by posting to both of these lists. IMHO, this announcement is relevant to both communities. This is to inform the taglibs-user and tomcat-dev communities of a small new taglib which allows to script JSP pages in laqnguages other than Java. Scriptlets and expressions using the taglib have access to the same implicit objects normal JSP scriptlets have access to. Internally, the taglib only depends on the javax.script interface defined as part of JSR-223 and included in Java 6 onwards, although it can also work with other implementations of javax.script on earlier version of Java (such as, for instance, Bean Scripting Framework 3). So for people who want to include scripts in their JSP pages, any scripting language that exposes a javax.script interface can be used. Given the nature of the project, and the existence of partial alternatives at least for some languages (such as Quercus/Resin), I expect interest to be quite small (if any), but if there's any interest it could be included in the newly re-organized Extended Taglib. Ideally, I would want Tomcat to support this kind of functionality natively via the language attribute of the page directive, but the taglib at least offers a simpler and container-independent solution. Source code can be found at: http://stani.ryabenkiy.com/downloads/releases/script-taglib-1.0.tar.gz The related thesis paper (with source code in appendix): http://stani.ryabenkiy.com/downloads/papers/scripting_thesis.pdf Kind Regards, Stani
Re: Question ad alternative of BSF taglib in Tomcat ? [Fwd: In the move of some taglibs to Tomcat, the BSF taglib got retired]
Henri Yandell wrote: Not sure where Christopher's email was, but: If there is any interest in a retired taglib, I'm all for it being merged into the Extended Taglib. Currently I plan to consider replacing the functionality from String Taglib (mostly as EL functions), Log Taglib and JNDI Taglib (perhaps). It sounds like BSF taglib, given it has only the two tags, might be very interesting if a dependency on BSF itself can be avoided (ie: base it on javax.script). +1 If you include just the taglib (the JSR-223 to be created), then its usage would be restricted to Java 6 and up, such that current Java 1.4 and 1.5 installations in the field could not take advantage of it. To cover Java 1.4 and 1.5 BSF 3.0 got created, which implements the javax.script specifications. If BSF 3.0 is included then the scripting support will be available from Java 1.4 on. Starting with Java 6 the Java 6 javax.script would prevail due to using its own package by placement of the classes. ---rony - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Question ad alternative of BSF taglib in Tomcat ? [Fwd: In the move of some taglibs to Tomcat, the BSF taglib got retired]
Christopher, thanks for your information! AFAIK the BSF taglib has been allowing one to add code in all of the BSF supported scripting languages to JSPs. Not knowing, wheter there are alternatives available in the current Tomcat Tomcat itself contains little in the way of tag libraries, except for the JSTL required by the JSP 2.1 specification (and higher). In case the BSF taglib is needed for adding scripts in scripting languages to JSPs, I would kindly suggest to not retire it, but to keep it available for interested parties in the Tomcat realm. So, let me clear a few things up: 1. The Tomcat team didn't retire the BSF tag library. The Jakarta BSF tag library folks retired it. You should complain to them. They are all off (enjoying retirement) ... ;-) 2. The Apache Software Foundation (ASF) never deletes code forever. Just because it's retired doesn't mean it's no longer available: it just means that they will no longer be maintaining it by adding features, fixing bugs, or answering questions about it. Yes, but the semantics of retirement indicates that they go out of service (are not useful in todays world anymore). Note that the jakarta-taglibs-BSF project hadn't had a news announcement since 2002, so it was pretty much already dead. Yes, but does that mean it is not useful anymore, needs to get retired, has become irrelevant? In this particular case it is just a sign that this particular functionality has become stable and there has not been a need to add new functionality (what functionality would have been needed in this taglib, other than enabling scripting languages to become usable to create scripts embedded in JSPs) ? Coming from BSF (which BSF taglib exploits) it is not clear to me, whether Tomcat users have been exploiting this taglib or not (actually, if it gets retired, this means that either the taglib is not needed anymore, because of an alternative technology put in place, or the taglib has not been exploited, used at all). In case there are alternatives available in Tomcat to the BSF taglib, please be so kind and point them out (just short pointers would suffice!). What is it that you are trying to do, exactly? It's possible that simply using the BSF library directly (without a tag library) is your best option. There was a fad for a while where everything was being wrapped into a tag library and JSP was starting to look like ColdFusion. CF was eventually re-implemented in Java using JSP tag libraries so I guess JSP had the last laugh. I never thought non-UI-related tag libraries had any business existing because I firmly believe in separation between model/controller and view: the view simply should not be sending emails, communicating with databases (at least not directly), sending JMS messages, or copying files around. E.g. if you look into the MS world you will immediately stumble over tons of ASPs which employ tons (even a mix) of scripting languages. Scripting languages in that world empower even end-user kind of programmers to quickly and easily insert code in a language they can master for web-based applications (and again, they take advantage of that possibility). (There are more reasons, arguments, why it may actually make sense to allow scripting languages to be used in server pages, of cours.) Also, experts in once scripting language are enabled to apply their knowledge for Web apps by creating the needed logic in their scripting language for server pages, removing the need for them to learn a new programming language. (Again, there are other good reasons as well.) If you want to use another scripting language to generate content, then why bother with JSP in the first place? Why not use a tool geared towards allowing you to use your scripting-language of choice outside of a JSP context? This would lead to environments that lock-in the developers in specific environments, which only are available for themselves (cf. PHP, Ruby, etc. environments). Having an established and proven environment available, like Tomcat, making it possible to mix-in code in scripting languages, would be a boon. If it is possible to include script code into JSPs, then why not allow for that? The BSF taglib would allow for that, making it possible to mix-and-match all supported scripting languages in JSPs. (And again, there may be many different reasons for doing that.) --- Having said all that I would like to make sure that I have no intentions to run (or start) a war of opinions. It is o.k. with me if I learn that currently in Tomcat this functionality is not really seen as a benefit for Tomcat (hence not taking over the BSF taglib, but instead letting it retire). ---rony P.S.: As long as the BSF taglib can be used with Tomcat, users who have a need to use scripts in JSPs will be able to do so (if they know that this is possible exists in the first place). P.P.S.: Also in the controller (citing your MVC argument above) you could use
Question ad alternative of BSF taglib in Tomcat ? [Fwd: In the move of some taglibs to Tomcat, the BSF taglib got retired]
Hi there, not sure whether this is a user or dev question, hence sending it to both, please forgive, if wrong. Learning about the finalization of moving taglib from jakarta to tomcat, one could also learn that the BSF taglib got retired in the process. AFAIK the BSF taglib has been allowing one to add code in all of the BSF supported scripting languages to JSPs. Not knowing, wheter there are alternatives available in the current Tomcat (did a coarse research on that issue, but did not find any info on this) I created the enclosed e-mail to the BSF user and dev list to make sure, that users of the BSF taglib learn about where it has moved to, in case it is still needed. In case the BSF taglib is needed for adding scripts in scripting languages to JSPs, I would kindly suggest to not retire it, but to keep it available for interested parties in the Tomcat realm. In case there are alternatives available in Tomcat to the BSF taglib, please be so kind and point them out (just short pointers would suffice!). TIA, ---rony P.S.: If the BSF taglib is still needed, then one more (dev) point to discuss/raise would be to create in a addition a new JSR-223/BSF3 taglib for the newly released BSF 3.0, which implements the JSR-223 (javax.script) specs. Unlike JSR-223, which is only available starting with Java 6, BSF 3 supplies the same functionality for Java 1.4 installations or higher, making it a very attractive technology for Java 1.4 and 1.5 installations, as they gain the standard scripting APIs with it. There would be more to this, but should only be discussed, if a need for this exists. Original Message Subject:In the move of some taglibs to Tomcat, the BSF taglib got retired Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:18:31 +0200 From: Rony G. Flatscher rony.flatsc...@wu-wien.ac.at Reply-To: Bean Scripting Framework developers bsf-...@jakarta.apache.org To: Bean Scripting Framework developers bsf-...@jakarta.apache.org, Bean Scripting Framework users bsf-u...@jakarta.apache.org Hi there, just learned from the announcement that in the process of moving taglibs from Jakarta to Tomcat a lot of taglibs got retired, among them the BSF taglib. Not sure at the moment how Tomcat will allow for creating JSPs that embed code in scripting languages, which was one of the original applications of BSF, when it was originally developed at IBM (as a matter of fact, IBM's WebSphere distributed BSF in order to enable Java Server Page authors to embed scripts in any of its supported scripting languages, very much like MS allows for in their ASPs). So for those who have a need for the BSF taglib, here the relevant links: Information about BSF taglib and examples on how to use it: http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs/doc/bsf-doc/ Download BSF taglib from: http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/jakarta/taglibs/deprecated/bsf/trunk/ Retired taglibs as of 2009-10: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/retired-taglibs.html ---rony
Re: Question ad alternative of BSF taglib in Tomcat ? [Fwd: In the move of some taglibs to Tomcat, the BSF taglib got retired]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Rony, On 10/9/2009 7:30 AM, Rony G. Flatscher (Apache) wrote: Learning about the finalization of moving taglib from jakarta to tomcat, one could also learn that the BSF taglib got retired in the process. Yup. AFAIK the BSF taglib has been allowing one to add code in all of the BSF supported scripting languages to JSPs. Not knowing, wheter there are alternatives available in the current Tomcat Tomcat itself contains little in the way of tag libraries, except for the JSTL required by the JSP 2.1 specification (and higher). In case the BSF taglib is needed for adding scripts in scripting languages to JSPs, I would kindly suggest to not retire it, but to keep it available for interested parties in the Tomcat realm. So, let me clear a few things up: 1. The Tomcat team didn't retire the BSF tag library. The Jakarta BSF tag library folks retired it. You should complain to them. 2. The Apache Software Foundation (ASF) never deletes code forever. Just because it's retired doesn't mean it's no longer available: it just means that they will no longer be maintaining it by adding features, fixing bugs, or answering questions about it. Note that the jakarta-taglibs-BSF project hadn't had a news announcement since 2002, so it was pretty much already dead. In case there are alternatives available in Tomcat to the BSF taglib, please be so kind and point them out (just short pointers would suffice!). What is it that you are trying to do, exactly? It's possible that simply using the BSF library directly (without a tag library) is your best option. There was a fad for a while where everything was being wrapped into a tag library and JSP was starting to look like ColdFusion. CF was eventually re-implemented in Java using JSP tag libraries so I guess JSP had the last laugh. I never thought non-UI-related tag libraries had any business existing because I firmly believe in separation between model/controller and view: the view simply should not be sending emails, communicating with databases (at least not directly), sending JMS messages, or copying files around. If you want to use another scripting language to generate content, then why bother with JSP in the first place? Why not use a tool geared towards allowing you to use your scripting-language of choice outside of a JSP context? - -chris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkrPpJQACgkQ9CaO5/Lv0PCu7QCfSsq5a606rBek1te/912L5P5B pNoAnjg/w9EeYHoV7/yr43udCuNa7NRp =ImL8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
