[Veritas-bu] NBU Certification
Hi All, I am thinking of taking the NBU certification exams 250-265 and 250-365. I have experience of all versions of NetBackup from 3.4 to 6.5.3.1; however the majority of my time has been spent using NBU 4.5 and 5.1 (I completed the official VERITAS courses on those versions). I only upgraded to 6.5.3.1 three weeks ago and as such could do with a refresher regarding the new version. Does anyone have any advice with regard to the exams other than the practise exam and details on the Symantec website? I would also appreciate any study docs or websites that I could use to help me prepare. Finally how useful do you think these certifications are? Thanks in advance, Steve. Steven Jenner, NCDA Senior Operations Engineer Telstra International EMEA DDI:+44 (0) 845 685 5644 Facsimile:+44 (0) 845 685 5646 Email: steven.jen...@intl.telstra.commailto:steven.jen...@intl.telstra.com Web: www.telstra-international.co.ukhttp://www.telstra-international.co.uk Give your feedback: www.telstrainternational.co.uk/surveyhttp://www.telstrainternational.co.uk/survey Telstra International trades in the UK and EMEA through Telstra Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 03830643. Our registered address is Telstra House, 21 Tabernacle Street, London EC2A 4DE. This communication may contain confidential information. It may also be the subject of legal professional privilege and/or under copyright. If you are not an intended recipient, you must not keep, forward, copy, use, save or rely on this communication, and any such action is unauthorised and prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please reply to this e-mail to notify the sender of its incorrect delivery, and then delete both it and your reply. PPlease consider the environment before printing this e-mail. __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email _ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] NBU Certification
Hi Steven, The exam is not difficult, if you are used with pre 6.0 versions, you should get a good look to the inter-process documentation, becouse it changed a lot from pre 6.x to 6x. Good luck, Pedro From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Jenner, Steven Sent: terça-feira, 7 de julho de 2009 05:40 To: Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: [Veritas-bu] NBU Certification Hi All, I am thinking of taking the NBU certification exams 250-265 and 250-365. I have experience of all versions of NetBackup from 3.4 to 6.5.3.1; however the majority of my time has been spent using NBU 4.5 and 5.1 (I completed the official VERITAS courses on those versions). I only upgraded to 6.5.3.1 three weeks ago and as such could do with a refresher regarding the new version. Does anyone have any advice with regard to the exams other than the practise exam and details on the Symantec website? I would also appreciate any study docs or websites that I could use to help me prepare. Finally how useful do you think these certifications are? Thanks in advance, Steve. Steven Jenner, NCDA Senior Operations Engineer Telstra International EMEA DDI:+44 (0) 845 685 5644 Facsimile:+44 (0) 845 685 5646 Email: steven.jen...@intl.telstra.commailto:steven.jen...@intl.telstra.com Web: www.telstra-international.co.ukhttp://www.telstra-international.co.uk Give your feedback: www.telstrainternational.co.uk/surveyhttp://www.telstrainternational.co.uk/survey Telstra International trades in the UK and EMEA through Telstra Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 03830643. Our registered address is Telstra House, 21 Tabernacle Street, London EC2A 4DE. This communication may contain confidential information. It may also be the subject of legal professional privilege and/or under copyright. If you are not an intended recipient, you must not keep, forward, copy, use, save or rely on this communication, and any such action is unauthorised and prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please reply to this e-mail to notify the sender of its incorrect delivery, and then delete both it and your reply. PPlease consider the environment before printing this e-mail. __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ AVISO: A informação contida neste e-mail, bem como em qualquer de seus anexos, é CONFIDENCIAL e destinada ao uso exclusivo do(s) destinatário(s) acima referido(s), podendo conter informações sigilosas e/ou legalmente protegidas. Caso você não seja o destinatário desta mensagem, informamos que qualquer divulgação, distribuição ou cópia deste e-mail e/ou de qualquer de seus anexos é absolutamente proibida. Solicitamos que o remetente seja comunicado imediatamente, respondendo esta mensagem, e que o original desta mensagem e de seus anexos, bem como toda e qualquer cópia e/ou impressão realizada a partir destes, sejam permanentemente apagados e/ou destruídos. Informações adicionais sobre nossa empresa podem ser obtidas no site http://sobre.uol.com.br/. NOTICE: The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto is CONFIDENTIAL and is intended only for use by the recipient named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or secret information. If you are not the e-mail´s intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this e-mail, and/or any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. Please immediately notify the sender replying to the above mentioned e-mail address, and permanently delete and/or destroy the original and any copy of this e-mail and/or its attachments, as well as any printout thereof. Additional information about our company may be obtained through the site http://www.uol.com.br/ir/. ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
[Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups
Jim, I've been testing it myself. I think you do need to keep that full backup around. The synthetic part of a synthetic backup is the consolidation of the full backup and the incrementals into a single image. This is done via duplication. The test scenario I'm working with is the following: Full backup taken every 4 weeks and kept for 2 months Incremental every night kept for 2 months Synthetic full every week which is kept for 1 month (offsite retention only) This seems to be working fine. I see a full backup during in the backup image list for the test client. I've not actually trying doing a restore of this full backup to see what tapes are loaded and how long it will take. I have a bit of an oddity. I'm testing Synthetic Backups. I have Day 1 Full backup. Day 2 Incremental Day 3 Synthetic-Full Day 4 Incremental (and manually expire the Day 1 Full) Day 5 Full backup runs So it appears I need to keep the Full backup around even though the Synthetic Full is suppose to be its equivalent. The Full backup runs on Day 5 even though I don't have it scheduled. In Fact Full are manual. Synthetics are scheduled. Is this normal? Running 6.5.4 +-- |This was sent by t...@tjsimerson.org via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to ab...@backupcentral.com. +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Using multiple drives with NDMP.
Boris, When I was doing some testing earlier I could see in the logs that the buffer sizes were only changing when I modified the size_data_buffers_ndmp value. If there is a way to set the size on the Celera I would guess that would work as well. I haven't figured out how to set the MOVER_RECORD_SIZE on the NetApp. I'm kind of hoping that the value being passed by Veritas using the size_data_buffers_ndmp value is setting it. Thanks, Jeff sysadminz...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Jeff, I just have SIZE_DATA_BUFFERS on the netbackup media servers and the buffer size on our EMC Celerras set to 256k. I don't have SIZE_DATA_BUFFERS_NDMP set at all, and I can see quite good performance on my LTO3 tape drives, as I pointed out 75mg/s on the UNIX and 65mg/s on Windows. Boris On Jun 25, 2009 11:16am, Jeff Cleverley jeff.clever...@avagotech.com wrote: Boris, Just to clarify. When you set the data buffers settings for the filer, were you changing the SIZE_DATA_BUFFERS_NDMP or was it something else? I was unclear whether the ndmp buffer size was actually passing that size for the dump command to use for a block size. Thanks, Jeff Boris Kraizman wrote: Jeff, good point. You need to tune the data buffer size as well. I changed the data buffer settings on the filer and the backup media servers to 256k, runs really fast in my case. I noted the Solaris media server runs backups faster then the Windows media servers. Boris On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Jeff Cleverley jeff.clever...@avagotech.com wrote: The clients max job was set to 1. I changed it to 10 for now. The policy with 3 file systems in the includes grabbed 3 drives and started writing. Performance now needs to start getting tuned to see what we can get but at least I can use all the drives. Thanks, Jeff Jon Bousselot wrote: What do you have set for maximum jobs per client under the global attributes of the properties tab of the master server? by the CLI... Check it /usr/openv/netbackup/bin/admincmd/bpconfig -L Set it /usr/openv/netbackup/bin/admincmd/bpconfig -mj 4 NDMP will multi-stream, but not multiplex. -Jon Greetings, I've got just about all the bugs worked out of the new test environment except 1. I can get my NDMP policies to back up more than one file system at a time. I've got a 6.5.3 environment running on linux. I've got a library (tld0) with 4 Gen 3 Ultrium drives. I've defined a media manager storage unit because I'm doing remote NDMP. I've set up 3 test policies, 1 standard and 2 NDMP. All policies work fine one at a time, or either NDMP policy will run at the same time as the standard policy. The storage unit is set to allow the use of 4 drives and also allow multiplexing (for the standard policy). The policies vary on the number of jobs per policy. One is set to 9 and the other is not set. One NDMP policy has 3 file systems to back up and the other has 1. When I run the policy with 3 file systems, it only runs one at a time to one tape. The other 2 just queue. I've tried putting in the new stream directive between them in the includes file but it didn't help. I can get them all to work one at a time but can't get them to backup more than one NDMP file system at a time. Is there some bp.conf directive I need to create? Any help pointing down the correct path would be appreciated. Thanks, Jeff -- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611 jeff.clever...@avagotech.com ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu -- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611 jeff.clever...@avagotech.com ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu !DSPAM:4a40f2c182048758971050! -- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611 jeff.clever...@avagotech.com -- Jeff Cleverley Unix Systems Administrator 4380 Ziegler Road Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 970-288-4611 jeff.clever...@avagotech.com ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
[Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups
I've been testing it myself. I think you do need to keep that full backup around. The synthetic part of a synthetic backup is the consolidation of the full backup and the incrementals into a single image. This is done via duplication. What makes it synthetic is that it is created tape to tape instead of transferring a bunch of non-changed data from the client again. Once that new (synthetic) full is created, there is no need for previous fulls (other than for retention). The new full DOES NOT rely on the old full once it's created. +-- |This was sent by wcplis...@gmail.com via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to ab...@backupcentral.com. +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups
Thanks all, Though keeping the orginal full around(to create other synthetics) does seem a bit strange. Hopefully Netbackup will mature to elimnate the constraint. Jim -Original Message- From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of cpreston Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 1:39 PM To: VERITAS-BU@MAILMAN.ENG.AUBURN.EDU Subject: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups I've been testing it myself. I think you do need to keep that full backup around. The synthetic part of a synthetic backup is the consolidation of the full backup and the incrementals into a single image. This is done via duplication. What makes it synthetic is that it is created tape to tape instead of transferring a bunch of non-changed data from the client again. Once that new (synthetic) full is created, there is no need for previous fulls (other than for retention). The new full DOES NOT rely on the old full once it's created. +-- |This was sent by wcplis...@gmail.com via Backup Central. Forward SPAM |to ab...@backupcentral.com. +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
[Veritas-bu] Revert Clustered Master Server to Stand Alone
Anyone have experience converting a clustered Master running 6.5 on Windows back to a stand alone configuration? Thanks Vincent Mase The information contained in this email message and its attachments is intended only for the private and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, unless the sender expressly agrees otherwise. Transmission of email over the Internet is not a secure communications medium. If you are requesting or have requested the transmittal of personal data, as defined in applicable privacy laws by means of email or in an attachment to email you must select a more secure alternate means of transmittal that supports your obligations to protect such personal data. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient and/or you have received this email in error, you must take no action based on the information in this email and you are hereby notified that any dissemination, misuse, copying, or disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by email and delete the original message.___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups
From what I've read, and from what Curtis says below, you DON'T need to keep the original full backup around, once you've created at least one more synethtic full backup. You can do just one full backup, then keep creating synthetic fulls by merging the previous synthetic full with incrementals, forever. The original full backup does not need to be retained as long is there is always at least one unexpired synthetic full available. Regards Dean On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Jim Horalek j...@federaledge.com wrote: Thanks all, Though keeping the orginal full around(to create other synthetics) does seem a bit strange. Hopefully Netbackup will mature to elimnate the constraint. Jim -Original Message- From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of cpreston Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 1:39 PM To: VERITAS-BU@MAILMAN.ENG.AUBURN.EDU Subject: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups I've been testing it myself. I think you do need to keep that full backup around. The synthetic part of a synthetic backup is the consolidation of the full backup and the incrementals into a single image. This is done via duplication. What makes it synthetic is that it is created tape to tape instead of transferring a bunch of non-changed data from the client again. Once that new (synthetic) full is created, there is no need for previous fulls (other than for retention). The new full DOES NOT rely on the old full once it's created. +-- |This was sent by wcplis...@gmail.com via Backup Central. Forward SPAM |to ab...@backupcentral.com. +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups
On Wed, Jul 08, 2009 at 10:11:46AM +1000, Dean wrote: From what I've read, and from what Curtis says below, you DON'T need to keep the original full backup around, once you've created at least one more synethtic full backup. You can do just one full backup, then keep creating synthetic fulls by merging the previous synthetic full with incrementals, forever. The original full backup does not need to be retained as long is there is always at least one unexpired synthetic full available. That is not what the admin guide says (I'm looking at Admin guide 1 for UNIX NBU 6.5, page 128). I had assumed this would be possible, but it says a non-synthetic full must be used as the source. Synthetic backup A synthetic full or synthetic cumulative incremental backup is a backup assembled from previous backups. The backups include one previous, traditional full backup, and subsequent differential backups and/or a cumulative incremental backup. (A traditional full backup means a non-synthesized, full backup.) A client can then use the synthesized backup to restore files and directories in the same way that a client restores from a traditional backup. -- Darren ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups
I see what you mean. But I suspect that's just a poorly worded paragraph. The diagram on page 200 of the Admin Guide (Vol 1, Windows version) indicates the original full is not required ongoing. I wish I could say for sure from experience, but I've never been able to get synthetic backups working at all :( Cheers, Dean On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 10:21 AM, A Darren Dunham ddun...@taos.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 08, 2009 at 10:11:46AM +1000, Dean wrote: From what I've read, and from what Curtis says below, you DON'T need to keep the original full backup around, once you've created at least one more synethtic full backup. You can do just one full backup, then keep creating synthetic fulls by merging the previous synthetic full with incrementals, forever. The original full backup does not need to be retained as long is there is always at least one unexpired synthetic full available. That is not what the admin guide says (I'm looking at Admin guide 1 for UNIX NBU 6.5, page 128). I had assumed this would be possible, but it says a non-synthetic full must be used as the source. Synthetic backup A synthetic full or synthetic cumulative incremental backup is a backup assembled from previous backups. The backups include one previous, traditional full backup, and subsequent differential backups and/or a cumulative incremental backup. (A traditional full backup means a non-synthesized, full backup.) A client can then use the synthesized backup to restore files and directories in the same way that a client restores from a traditional backup. -- Darren ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
[Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups
Gidday, I've been running synthetics for nearly two years now to backup about 3/3.5 TBs and have to say has generally run extremely well. Within the same policy I have 3 schedules. The first is an ad-hoc full - I used this to create the first full backup, and on the very few occasions when the synthetic has stuffed up and I needed to start again. It has a 1 month retention. Second is a daily differential that runs every three hours and goes to disc. They have a two week retention period. Lastly, I have the synthetic full backup. Runs every saturday and also has a 1 month retention. Like I said, it occasionaly stuffs up, but works 99% of the time, and appears to run 3 to 4 times faster than a traditional full. I HIGHLY recommend it. +-- |This was sent by jcr...@marketforce.com.au via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to ab...@backupcentral.com. +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups Or May A Red Herring.
Unfortunately my test showed you do.(or do they?). I'm to understand why expiring the full backup triggered another full backup (not synthetic). There maybe an obsure reason that my test failed or it may be a bug. Maybe the Full backup running has nothing to do with the synthetics but is actually a scheduling or retension issue. Since all my Fulls are manual this is a bit perplexing as to why a Full ran automatically. Something to do with running a manual backup and the system thinks it hasn't run since the image was expired? jim From: Dean Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:11 PM To: Jim Horalek Cc: VERITAS-BU@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups From what I've read, and from what Curtis says below, you DON'T need to keep the original full backup around, once you've created at least one more synethtic full backup. You can do just one full backup, then keep creating synthetic fulls by merging the previous synthetic full with incrementals, forever. The original full backup does not need to be retained as long is there is always at least one unexpired synthetic full available. Regards Dean On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Jim Horalek j...@federaledge.com wrote: Thanks all, Though keeping the orginal full around(to create other synthetics) does seem a bit strange. Hopefully Netbackup will mature to elimnate the constraint. Jim -Original Message- From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of cpreston Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 1:39 PM To: VERITAS-BU@MAILMAN.ENG.AUBURN.EDU Subject: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups I've been testing it myself. I think you do need to keep that full backup around. The synthetic part of a synthetic backup is the consolidation of the full backup and the incrementals into a single image. This is done via duplication. What makes it synthetic is that it is created tape to tape instead of transferring a bunch of non-changed data from the client again. Once that new (synthetic) full is created, there is no need for previous fulls (other than for retention). The new full DOES NOT rely on the old full once it's created. +-- |This was sent by wcplis...@gmail.com via Backup Central. Forward SPAM |to ab...@backupcentral.com. +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups
And you're verifying that the original full does not need to be kept around? -Original Message- From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Crowey Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:55 PM To: VERITAS-BU@MAILMAN.ENG.AUBURN.EDU Subject: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups Gidday, I've been running synthetics for nearly two years now to backup about 3/3.5 TBs and have to say has generally run extremely well. Within the same policy I have 3 schedules. The first is an ad-hoc full - I used this to create the first full backup, and on the very few occasions when the synthetic has stuffed up and I needed to start again. It has a 1 month retention. Second is a daily differential that runs every three hours and goes to disc. They have a two week retention period. Lastly, I have the synthetic full backup. Runs every saturday and also has a 1 month retention. Like I said, it occasionaly stuffs up, but works 99% of the time, and appears to run 3 to 4 times faster than a traditional full. I HIGHLY recommend it. +-- |This was sent by jcr...@marketforce.com.au via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to ab...@backupcentral.com. +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
[Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups
cpreston wrote: And you're verifying that the original full does not need to be kept around? OK ... I missed two important points I guess. With a 1 month retention period, I always have 4 (weekly) synthetic backups in my library, and so yes I've never had any problem about recovering files very quickly that were/are less than one month old. However, we do also have another separate policy that duplicates the most recent synthetic copy to another set of tapes for our EOM set. And, again, I've restored from our EOM tapes (from various months/years) more than enough times to know that the process works just fine. And I do know for sure that we do not keep an initial full backup - it expires (after one month) like any other backup. Its the seed for the initial synthetic, but then its no longer required - moreover, its no longer useful (in the synthetic backup process) if you don't have differentials that date back to the creation of that 'seed' full backup. Is that clearer? Anything else that I missed? +-- |This was sent by jcr...@marketforce.com.au via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to ab...@backupcentral.com. +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
