Re: [Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies
One way to solve this problem is to use encryption. Use a key-per-tape procedure and when the tape images expire, destroy the key. There will be no way to ever get that data back and the tape can sit in your scratch pool for years. .../Ed On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 4:01 PM, bruceephx netbackup-fo...@backupcentral.com wrote: I'll give a reason for using specific tapes, litigation discovery. Our email backups need to go to specific tapes so that the tapes are reused within 24 hours of the image(s) expiring. If you used scratch tapes, when the image expires the data is still on the tape, it can be re-imported and recovered. We have many dozen scratch tapes, so the email backups could exist for weeks after the images expire. ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
[Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies
I'll give a reason for using specific tapes, litigation discovery. Our email backups need to go to specific tapes so that the tapes are reused within 24 hours of the image(s) expiring. If you used scratch tapes, when the image expires the data is still on the tape, it can be re-imported and recovered. We have many dozen scratch tapes, so the email backups could exist for weeks after the images expire. +-- |This was sent by bruce.ellefr...@phoenix.gov via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to ab...@backupcentral.com. +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
[Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies
Thanks Jeff. I saw another thread you participated in with the legal discovery issues and it makes sense to me, until a court orders ALL media held and possibly searched. That's where it could get real ugly. I want to send the other threads thesis to our legal beagles to see if they buy on the scratch pool mechanism. +-- |This was sent by bruce.ellefr...@phoenix.gov via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to ab...@backupcentral.com. +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
[Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies
P.S. to my previous reply. We worked with Kroll-Ontrack on a legal discovery case. They are also well known for data recovery services. They could find it, if someone was willing to pay their fees. :D +-- |This was sent by bruce.ellefr...@phoenix.gov via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to ab...@backupcentral.com. +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies
Don't misinterpret what I said to mean that you can hide information. I'm saying if you don't KNOW the information is actually there then there's no reason to go on a fishing expedition. If you do KNOW then of course you're required to provide it. However, for most of us the only way we KNOW it is there is by interrogating NetBackup's catalogs. If the images are expired they are no longer in the catalogs. Of course I am not a lawyer so you do what you think is necessary. I'm not suggesting hiding anything but rather that reasonable good faith effort is all that is required to satisfy discovery. You're not hiding it if you don't KNOW which (if any) tapes have the information and are using the tools in the way intended. If they are scratch for backup purposes they don't have the information. In the bizarre scenario you mention then you'd probably also not be allowed to let any tapes go scratch in the first place. I have seen discovery requests that did require me to change retention of images to infinite so that they don't expire but I've yet to see one that tried to force me to guess where past ones might have been. In point of fact most discovery requests I've received relates to information so old that the likelihood it would be on any of my current scratch tapes is almost nil. -Original Message- From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of bruceephx Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 5:47 PM To: VERITAS-BU@MAILMAN.ENG.AUBURN.EDU Subject: [Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies Thanks Jeff. I saw another thread you participated in with the legal discovery issues and it makes sense to me, until a court orders ALL media held and possibly searched. That's where it could get real ugly. I want to send the other threads thesis to our legal beagles to see if they buy on the scratch pool mechanism. +-- |This was sent by bruce.ellefr...@phoenix.gov via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to ab...@backupcentral.com. +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu Proud partner. Susan G. Komen for the Cure. Please consider our environment before printing this e-mail or attachments. -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you. -- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
[Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies
cpreston wrote: I guess my question is to question the requirement to do this. I've never been a fan of special backups going to special tapes. I'm relatively OK with segregating backups (e.g. Oracle on its own tapes, etc), but who cares what backups go to what tapes? Just let NBU put it on whatever tape it wants to be on and then let it track them. Why force certain backups to certain barcodes? Historically, when I find people doing this, they look and they find that they're doing it cause the guy before did it, and the guy before him did it, and the guy before him did it cause he liked the color blue. So why do you have this requirement? Trust me I am not a fan of doing this either. As it is right now it is a business requirement as this is data that our client asks to have on its own hardware and this has been directed to be done by management. Being this wont really work how I like and is honestly a big pain to deal with I am going to try approaching this a little different with management and see if they bite. I am hoping just using pools will be enough. -Original Message- From: veritas-bu-bounces at mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-bounces at mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of shred625 Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 7:32 AM To: VERITAS-BU at mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: [Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies I had a vision and it didnt turn out exactly how I intended it. (NBU 5.1 MP5upgrading soon Windows centric environment) I have the need to write certain data to only specific tapes. Those tapes are designated by a two digit code at the front of the tape. I have policies that I need to write to these tapes but I would like them to be able to drop in different pools based on retention (daily, weekly ect). Currently I have the tapes going to pool X and using barcode rules the tapes are assigned to that pool. Those polices are set to write only to pool X. What I would rather have to I can still see daily, weekly and so on pools is those tapes drop into the scratch pool but can only be used by those specific policies. I tried this and wasnt able to get it to work as the policies would grab any scratch tapes and for business reasons this cant happen. Any ideas here? +-- |This was sent by jsmithhart at kpmg.com via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to abuse at backupcentral.com. +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu at mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu +-- |This was sent by jsmithh...@kpmg.com via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to ab...@backupcentral.com. +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies
I guess my question is to question the requirement to do this. I've never been a fan of special backups going to special tapes. I'm relatively OK with segregating backups (e.g. Oracle on its own tapes, etc), but who cares what backups go to what tapes? Just let NBU put it on whatever tape it wants to be on and then let it track them. Why force certain backups to certain barcodes? Historically, when I find people doing this, they look and they find that they're doing it cause the guy before did it, and the guy before him did it, and the guy before him did it cause he liked the color blue. So why do you have this requirement? -Original Message- From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of shred625 Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 7:32 AM To: VERITAS-BU@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: [Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies I had a vision and it didnt turn out exactly how I intended it. (NBU 5.1 MP5upgrading soon Windows centric environment) I have the need to write certain data to only specific tapes. Those tapes are designated by a two digit code at the front of the tape. I have policies that I need to write to these tapes but I would like them to be able to drop in different pools based on retention (daily, weekly ect). Currently I have the tapes going to pool X and using barcode rules the tapes are assigned to that pool. Those polices are set to write only to pool X. What I would rather have to I can still see daily, weekly and so on pools is those tapes drop into the scratch pool but can only be used by those specific policies. I tried this and wasnt able to get it to work as the policies would grab any scratch tapes and for business reasons this cant happen. Any ideas here? +-- |This was sent by jsmithh...@kpmg.com via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to ab...@backupcentral.com. +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies
You can create different volume pools and specify a certain pool to use for a particular backup. In our scenario, I've got barcodes that starts with NT and UN respectively, all my windows servers I backup to the NT pool and all my Unix/Oracle backups I use the UN pool. Try this, it makes life very easy especially when you've got different retention periods on your windows and unix servers respectively. -Original Message- From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of W. Curtis Preston Sent: 27 February 2009 12:04 PM To: VERITAS-BU@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies I guess my question is to question the requirement to do this. I've never been a fan of special backups going to special tapes. I'm relatively OK with segregating backups (e.g. Oracle on its own tapes, etc), but who cares what backups go to what tapes? Just let NBU put it on whatever tape it wants to be on and then let it track them. Why force certain backups to certain barcodes? Historically, when I find people doing this, they look and they find that they're doing it cause the guy before did it, and the guy before him did it, and the guy before him did it cause he liked the color blue. So why do you have this requirement? -Original Message- From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of shred625 Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 7:32 AM To: VERITAS-BU@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: [Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies I had a vision and it didnt turn out exactly how I intended it. (NBU 5.1 MP5upgrading soon Windows centric environment) I have the need to write certain data to only specific tapes. Those tapes are designated by a two digit code at the front of the tape. I have policies that I need to write to these tapes but I would like them to be able to drop in different pools based on retention (daily, weekly ect). Currently I have the tapes going to pool X and using barcode rules the tapes are assigned to that pool. Those polices are set to write only to pool X. What I would rather have to I can still see daily, weekly and so on pools is those tapes drop into the scratch pool but can only be used by those specific policies. I tried this and wasnt able to get it to work as the policies would grab any scratch tapes and for business reasons this cant happen. Any ideas here? +-- |This was sent by jsmithh...@kpmg.com via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to ab...@backupcentral.com. +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu * This electronic communication and the attached file(s) are subject to a disclaimer which can be viewed at http://www.multichoice.co.za/multichoice/view/multichoice/en/page21855. If you are unable to view the disclaimer, please email disclai...@multichoice.co.za for a copy. ** ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies
I agree with Curtis. There's not a need within NBU to separate server or OS types to different media. Usually this is dictated by management who doesn't understand the dynamics, but the data isn't going to care if it lives on the same tape as differing types. It's all bits when you get down to it. NetBackup will, by default, manage the media properly when there are different retentions, there is no need to add additional pools to do this. If you're doing that, you aren't managing your media as effectively as you could. If you're a smaller shop, you might not notice it much, but in bigger shops, this could mean a big difference in the number of tapes you burn through. I can see reasoning for separating backups for higher protection, but putting Unix and Windows on different tapes just because they are different OSes is inefficient. Rusty Major, MCSE, BCFP, VCS ▪ Sr. Storage Engineer ▪ SunGard Availability Services ▪ 757 N. Eldridge Suite 200, Houston TX 77079 ▪ 281-584-4693 Keeping People and Information Connected® ▪ http://availability.sungard.com/ P Think before you print CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain confidential, proprietary and privileged information, and unauthorized disclosure or use is prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail from your system. Peter Mosopa peter.mos...@multichoice.co.za Sent by: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu 02/27/2009 05:06 AM To W. Curtis Preston wcplis...@gmail.com, VERITAS-BU@mailman.eng.auburn.edu cc Subject Re: [Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies You can create different volume pools and specify a certain pool to use for a particular backup. In our scenario, I've got barcodes that starts with NT and UN respectively, all my windows servers I backup to the NT pool and all my Unix/Oracle backups I use the UN pool. Try this, it makes life very easy especially when you've got different retention periods on your windows and unix servers respectively. -Original Message- From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of W. Curtis Preston Sent: 27 February 2009 12:04 PM To: VERITAS-BU@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies I guess my question is to question the requirement to do this. I've never been a fan of special backups going to special tapes. I'm relatively OK with segregating backups (e.g. Oracle on its own tapes, etc), but who cares what backups go to what tapes? Just let NBU put it on whatever tape it wants to be on and then let it track them. Why force certain backups to certain barcodes? Historically, when I find people doing this, they look and they find that they're doing it cause the guy before did it, and the guy before him did it, and the guy before him did it cause he liked the color blue. So why do you have this requirement? -Original Message- From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of shred625 Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 7:32 AM To: VERITAS-BU@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: [Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies I had a vision and it didnt turn out exactly how I intended it. (NBU 5.1 MP5upgrading soon Windows centric environment) I have the need to write certain data to only specific tapes. Those tapes are designated by a two digit code at the front of the tape. I have policies that I need to write to these tapes but I would like them to be able to drop in different pools based on retention (daily, weekly ect). Currently I have the tapes going to pool X and using barcode rules the tapes are assigned to that pool. Those polices are set to write only to pool X. What I would rather have to I can still see daily, weekly and so on pools is those tapes drop into the scratch pool but can only be used by those specific policies. I tried this and wasnt able to get it to work as the policies would grab any scratch tapes and for business reasons this cant happen. Any ideas here? +-- |This was sent by jsmithh...@kpmg.com via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to ab...@backupcentral.com. +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu * This electronic communication and the attached file(s) are subject to a disclaimer which can be viewed at http://www.multichoice.co.za/multichoice/view/multichoice/en/page21855. If you are unable to view the disclaimer, please email disclai...@multichoice.co.za for a copy
Re: [Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:51 AM, Peter Mosopa peter.mos...@multichoice.co.za wrote: You can create different volume pools and specify a certain pool to use for a particular backup. In our scenario, I've got barcodes that starts with NT and UN respectively, all my windows servers I backup to the NT pool and all my Unix/Oracle backups I use the UN pool. Do you not allow your Unix and Windows admins to have lunch together either? :-) Try this, it makes life very easy especially when you've got different retention periods on your windows and unix servers respectively. By default, NetBackup won't mix retention periods on the same tapes anyway. Putting the Unix and Windows backups into separate pools simply increases the likelihood of status 96 errors when you have free tapes in one pool but are out of tapes in another. An incremental that would succeed writing to the end of a tape will now fail because NetBackup was told it wasn't allowed to do that. What you CAN do and what you SHOULD do are two very different things. There are a lot of ways you CAN configure NetBackup and some of them are even good ways. There are a lot of other ways you can configure it that makes the developers go why would they possibly do that?. The first thing you need to define is the BUSINESS problem you're trying to solve. Not the TECHNICAL problem but the BUSINESS problem. Putting Unix and Windows backups on separate physical media rarely solves a BUSINESS problem. There may be a few cases out there where this is actually required, but those are few are far between. Once you've defined the BUSINESS problem, then implement the TECHNICAL solution. I'm guessing that the business problem is more along the lines of back up everything every day and keep the backups for x days than it is don't pollute the Windows tapes with Unix data. Don't overmanage NetBackup. Keep things as simple as you possibly can and you'll be more successful in the long term. New admins or support folks will have an easier time of trying to figuring out how you're configured and why it's done that way. The less complicated your environment is, the less likely you'll be bitten by bugs within the product too. .../Ed Ed Wilts, RHCE, BCFP, BCSD, SCSP, SCSE ewi...@ewilts.org ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
[Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies
I had a vision and it didnt turn out exactly how I intended it. (NBU 5.1 MP5upgrading soon Windows centric environment) I have the need to write certain data to only specific tapes. Those tapes are designated by a two digit code at the front of the tape. I have policies that I need to write to these tapes but I would like them to be able to drop in different pools based on retention (daily, weekly ect). Currently I have the tapes going to pool X and using barcode rules the tapes are assigned to that pool. Those polices are set to write only to pool X. What I would rather have to I can still see daily, weekly and so on pools is those tapes drop into the scratch pool but can only be used by those specific policies. I tried this and wasnt able to get it to work as the policies would grab any scratch tapes and for business reasons this cant happen. Any ideas here? +-- |This was sent by jsmithh...@kpmg.com via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to ab...@backupcentral.com. +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies
How many tape drives you got? Could you have 1 tape drive assigned to this project? Remember that the hcart on the tape drives and the tapes are just tags that have to match. Set one drive to something else say hcart2, barcode rule your special tapes to hcart2, set up a storage unit to hcart2. set your policy to use that storage unit. Just the first thing that came to me just an idea. -Original Message- From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of shred625 Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 9:32 AM To: VERITAS-BU@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: [Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies I had a vision and it didn't turn out exactly how I intended it. (NBU 5.1 MP5upgrading soon Windows centric environment) I have the need to write certain data to only specific tapes. Those tapes are designated by a two digit code at the front of the tape. I have policies that I need to write to these tapes but I would like them to be able to drop in different pools based on retention (daily, weekly ...ect). Currently I have the tapes going to pool X and using barcode rules the tapes are assigned to that pool. Those polices are set to write only to pool X. What I would rather have to I can still see daily, weekly and so on pools is those tapes drop into the scratch pool but can only be used by those specific policies. I tried this and wasn't able to get it to work as the policies would grab any scratch tapes and for business reasons this cant happen. Any ideas here? +-- |This was sent by jsmithh...@kpmg.com via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to ab...@backupcentral.com. +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
[Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies
I have 72 drives spread across 12 libraries (dont ask I inherited it) but these jobs are to big to just allow a couple drives to them. I would still need to be able to use these drives for other jobs as we have a very tight window to obtain our full backups. I have actually thought about something along those lines but it would really kill our fulls. +-- |This was sent by jsmithh...@kpmg.com via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to ab...@backupcentral.com. +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Special Tapes to policies
What I would rather have to I can still see daily, weekly and so on pools is those tapes drop into the scratch pool but can only be used by those specific policies. I tried this and wasn't able to get it to work as the policies would grab any scratch tapes and for business reasons this cant happen. Any ideas here? Different but similar problem mentioned on Symantec forum recently. One solution suggested there involved a bpstart_notify script. Basically code the logic in there. Unfortunately, it isn't passed the pool requested. But if you can calculate the pool needed from the policy/client/schedule information, then this might work: Have the script discover what pool is necessary, Check for available tapes in that pool If insufficient, move scratch tapes with necessary barcode into that pool if unable, exit with error start job It could still go south if you have a tape error that causes the pool to empty, then it grabs a new scratch tape. Also, if you want to have different retentions, then the script gets very complex trying to decide if the available tapes are useful. If you always had unassigned tapes in the right pool, then it should work. Good luck! -- Darren ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
