Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique
I think all this talk about whether this is a fly is silly. Is it made on a vice? Can it be easily cast with a fly rod? If so, it is a fly! Actually, it looked like a pretty cool technique and an interesting new material to me! I'd like to learn more about the foam. Is its weight similar to regular foam? What is involved in shaping it? How long does it take to set? How do you make it adhere to the hook? How well does it float? On Feb 8, 2010, at 7:57 PM, Wes Wada wrote: Hi You All, I mentioned in a previous post that I have been very busy and involved with fly tying. For the last year and a half, I've developed a style and technique of tying using kids' modeling clay -- Crayola brand's Model Magic -- as a basis for new fly patterns. These have included an October Caddis pupa, a Field Cricket, and a Dragonfly Nymph. Attached are the first three Green Frogs, in the order that they were created. Materials are: white moldable foam, polypropylene yarn, rubber legs, and various flash materials. Coloring is acrylic paint and art marker. The eyes are created with fabric paint. All of this is mounted on a large stinger hook. The space behind the eye of the hook is where a new type of weed guard will be tied in. There are a good number of ideas going into this fly. The frog's legs are springy and hold their shape, and you can make the shapes surprisingly fast. The legs are shaped with a simple jig I've invented. The body length, not including the legs, is 2 inches. The fly is lightweight, a tenth of an ounce. I've developed a technique that solidly anchors the hook in the hardened foam. That's been battled tested. I make about five frogs at a time, mass producing all the parts. Assembly is very quick. The bodies are all quite similar, as they are all made at the same time, using the same tools. The basic shape is still in progress. The variety of legs possible is a heap of fun. Coloring can take as long as you want. These are early prototypes, so I didn't spend a whole lot of time coloring them, maybe three minutes each. Green Frog is the name of a common pond frog. These are hand-held digital photos. I will be redoing the shots later with studio equipment. Also, the fly is still evolving, and who knows what it will be like or look like in a month or two. Hope you enjoy seeing some new stuff. I've sure enjoyed the puttering around... Wes Wada Bend, Oregon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.comfrog1.jpgfrog2.jpgfrog3.jpg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique
Tom Davenport t...@comcast.net wrote: Actually, it looked like a pretty cool technique and an interesting new material to me! I'd like to learn more about the foam. Is its weight similar to regular foam? What is involved in shaping it? How long does it take to set? How do you make it adhere to the hook? How well does it float? Hi Tom, Crayola Model Magic, as I am using it, has fine potential as a fly tying material. The product is made for kids as similar to modeling clay and is non-toxic, edible and all the good kid-safe qualities. I prefer Model Magic over Model Magic Fusion. Fusion has less tensile strength, but is still usable. I have been working with the product since August 2008 for fly tying and have given a couple of classes on the technique for the Central Oregon Flyfishers fly tying group. Will be doing a full-day Saturday workshop on this and other techniques this coming December. To answer your questions: the material is very lightweight and floats as good or better than other rigid foams. You can shape it by hand, but I prefer the speed, predictability and repeatability of using tools like cookie cutters, cake decorating tips, and resin molds. The material sets firm overnight or can be hardened in a microwave. You need to run timing tests on small pieces when using the microwave. The material is easily colored. Though it comes in numerous colors, I prefer buying only white, black, and fluorescents. The white can be colored with art markers, acrylic paints, fabric paints, etc. Setting the hook into the material is a challenge. Most hooks I like to use are not popper hooks with the built-in kink in the shank. In general, wide gape hooks like stingers work well if you can embed the right angle portion that is part of the hook bend in enough foam. I wrap the shank, minimally with thread, (I use something else with a LOT more tooth to it). You can slit the dried foam with a single edge razor blade or make a slot with a hacksaw blade and super glue the hook into the body. Or build the hook into the body between layers of foam. Super glue is almost a given when using this product. For beginners it's easier to glue dried parts together than it is to mold them together when the foam is in its moldable sticky state. Without super glue, I usually make from 3-5 bugs at a time, which is about the time limit before the foam stops being tacky enough to stick together with other pieces. This product is best used for larger bugs, though I have made flies as small as an October caddis pupa and beetles. The design and construction problems magnify as you try to get smaller in size. Durability is about the same as other foam products like store-bought popper heads. If you snag the fly in bushes and try to rip it out, you will likely destroy your fly. Treated with respect, the flies are surprisingly durable. Other flies I have created using moldable foam are a cricket (great silhouette on the water) and a dragonfly nymph. Currently developing patterns for sculpins, large crawdads, and various bass bugs. When you do the underwater bugs, you need to weight the hook enough to create at least neutral buoyancy. Hope that helps. Wes Wada Bend, Oregon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique
Tom, Actually, the silly discussions get serious when you fish in 'Flyfishing Waters Only' areas, such as in Yellowstone Park. There is no 'discussion' as to what constitutes a fly- they tell you what does and what constitutes poaching. Problem is, that's always evolving with new materials and techniques. If you have a good argument, they may not ticket you, but may make you quit using it because 'they' view it as a lure, and 'they' is what counts. What I do is contact the local flyshops nearby and find out from them what qualifies as a fly for restricted waters, or if what I'm planning to use (if borderline) would be acceptable. Other than that, the discussions as to what constitutes a fly have been going on in tying circles for a hundred years, and will continue as long as there are purists and viewpoints. DonO - Original Message - From: Tom Davenport t...@comcast.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 5:37 AM Subject: Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique I think all this talk about whether this is a fly is silly. Is it made on a vice? Can it be easily cast with a fly rod? If so, it is a fly! Actually, it looked like a pretty cool technique and an interesting new material to me! I'd like to learn more about the foam. Is its weight similar to regular foam? What is involved in shaping it? How long does it take to set? How do you make it adhere to the hook? How well does it float? On Feb 8, 2010, at 7:57 PM, Wes Wada wrote: Hi You All, I mentioned in a previous post that I have been very busy and involved with fly tying. For the last year and a half, I've developed a style and technique of tying using kids' modeling clay -- Crayola brand's Model Magic -- as a basis for new fly patterns. These have included an October Caddis pupa, a Field Cricket, and a Dragonfly Nymph. Attached are the first three Green Frogs, in the order that they were created. Materials are: white moldable foam, polypropylene yarn, rubber legs, and various flash materials. Coloring is acrylic paint and art marker. The eyes are created with fabric paint. All of this is mounted on a large stinger hook. The space behind the eye of the hook is where a new type of weed guard will be tied in. There are a good number of ideas going into this fly. The frog's legs are springy and hold their shape, and you can make the shapes surprisingly fast. The legs are shaped with a simple jig I've invented. The body length, not including the legs, is 2 inches. The fly is lightweight, a tenth of an ounce. I've developed a technique that solidly anchors the hook in the hardened foam. That's been battled tested. I make about five frogs at a time, mass producing all the parts. Assembly is very quick. The bodies are all quite similar, as they are all made at the same time, using the same tools. The basic shape is still in progress. The variety of legs possible is a heap of fun. Coloring can take as long as you want. These are early prototypes, so I didn't spend a whole lot of time coloring them, maybe three minutes each. Green Frog is the name of a common pond frog. These are hand-held digital photos. I will be redoing the shots later with studio equipment. Also, the fly is still evolving, and who knows what it will be like or look like in a month or two. Hope you enjoy seeing some new stuff. I've sure enjoyed the puttering around... Wes Wada Bend, Oregon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.comfrog1.jpgfrog2.jpgfrog3.jpg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique
Wes, see comments/questions below: - Original Message - From: Wes Wada To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique Tom Davenport t...@comcast.net wrote: Actually, it looked like a pretty cool technique and an interesting new material to me! I'd like to learn more about the foam. Is its weight similar to regular foam? What is involved in shaping it? How long does it take to set? How do you make it adhere to the hook? How well does it float? Hi Tom, To answer your questions: the material is very lightweight and floats as good or better than other rigid foams. Have you found that it reacts or melts with petroleum based products? How soft is to the touch? Does it 'give' like a natural frog body would? The material sets firm overnight or can be hardened in a microwave. You need to run timing tests on small pieces when using the microwave. You 'cook' the material before you set it on the hook to microwave, right? If you set it on the hook 1st and let it harden, will it grab the hook better? The material is easily colored. Though it comes in numerous colors, I prefer buying only white, black, and fluorescents. The white can be colored with art markers, acrylic paints, fabric paints, etc. Does it accept enamels, fingernail polish, etc.? I see below you use superglue- does it melt it? Setting the hook into the material is a challenge. Most hooks I like to use are not popper hooks with the built-in kink in the shank. In general, wide gape hooks like stingers work well if you can embed the right angle portion that is part of the hook bend in enough foam. I wrap the shank, minimally with thread, (I use something else with a LOT more tooth to it). You can slit the dried foam with a single edge razor blade or make a slot with a hacksaw blade and super glue the hook into the body. Or build the hook into the body between layers of foam. Have you tried lashing down a piece of heavy mono with gaps in the thread, and then letting the foam set up while on the hook? Super glue is almost a given when using this product. For beginners it's easier to glue dried parts together than it is to mold them together when the foam is in its moldable sticky state. Without super glue, I usually make from 3-5 bugs at a time, which is about the time limit before the foam stops being tacky enough to stick together with other pieces. This product is best used for larger bugs, though I have made flies as small as an October caddis pupa and beetles. The design and construction problems magnify as you try to get smaller in size. Can it be 'finger-shaped' into different contours as it starts to dry? Durability is about the same as other foam products like store-bought popper heads. If you snag the fly in bushes and try to rip it out, you will likely destroy your fly. Treated with respect, the flies are surprisingly durable. There are hard foam and soft foam poppers- which one does this material mimick? Other flies I have created using moldable foam are a cricket (great silhouette on the water) and a dragonfly nymph. Currently developing patterns for sculpins, large crawdads, and various bass bugs. When you do the underwater bugs, you need to weight the hook enough to create at least neutral buoyancy. I'm thinking of a crab with heavy barbell eyes- would give a slow sink-rate like the living one. The shell is hard to the touch, so a harder foam shouldn't spook a permit. What about the smell? Once they are dry, can you smell anything when you sniff them- water will intensify any scent and spook fish if it's not natural. DonO Hope that helps. Wes Wada Bend, Oregon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique
On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 9:54 AM, Don Ordes f...@tribcsp.com wrote: Wes, see comments/questions below: Hi DonO, Some answers to your questions about Model Magic in fly tying (my findings): Material when set is more firm than soft, but I would not describe the surface as hard and ungiving. If you want a super hard surface, coat it with a hard-shell paint. I am looking into using the UV-light cured product as a substitute for epoxy. Have not tried epoxy over the foam. Super glue and Sally Hansen's Hard as Nails have no effect on the foam. Haven't had any melting problems yet. I do not use enamel, since the range of acrylics is far greater and easier to use, at least for my purposes. The material has no smell either wet or dry. The material sets overnight. You can use a microwave in short bursts to hurry along the process. You can finger shape the foam until it reaches a point where it no longer accepts your manipulations...gets too springy. If you finger mold an area that is delicate and unsupported, at some point when you are fishing, that area will just break off the fly. You should NOT microwave a body that has a hook set into it. Metal and microwaves don't get along. Wrapping the hook shank is necessary to keep the hook from rotating in the foam. Mono would not work very well. You need a wrap material that is somewhat absorbent to soak in the foam and glue. I would always use glue to set the hook, you need to get into all the nooks and crannies. Molding foam around a hook shank doesn't do that reliably. Had a friend who was working on a similar idea for salt water crab patterns. Not sure how far along he got on it. I will be using barbell eyes for the crawfish patterns to anchor the rear end of the crawfish. Best bet is just to go buy a package of the foam and get to playing. The stuff is ridiculously cheap and available widely. Once you open the package, store the stuff in a small, sealed jar. Wes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique
Well WW, Thanks for the info. When this storm lets up I'll run over to WallyWorld to see if I can find it. I do have a ton of kink-shank hooks that I need to use up, though, both salt and fresh. DonO - Original Message - From: Wes Wada To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 9:54 AM, Don Ordes f...@tribcsp.com wrote: Wes, see comments/questions below: Hi DonO, Some answers to your questions about Model Magic in fly tying (my findings): Material when set is more firm than soft, but I would not describe the surface as hard and ungiving. If you want a super hard surface, coat it with a hard-shell paint. I am looking into using the UV-light cured product as a substitute for epoxy. Have not tried epoxy over the foam. Super glue and Sally Hansen's Hard as Nails have no effect on the foam. Haven't had any melting problems yet. I do not use enamel, since the range of acrylics is far greater and easier to use, at least for my purposes. The material has no smell either wet or dry. The material sets overnight. You can use a microwave in short bursts to hurry along the process. You can finger shape the foam until it reaches a point where it no longer accepts your manipulations...gets too springy. If you finger mold an area that is delicate and unsupported, at some point when you are fishing, that area will just break off the fly. You should NOT microwave a body that has a hook set into it. Metal and microwaves don't get along. Wrapping the hook shank is necessary to keep the hook from rotating in the foam. Mono would not work very well. You need a wrap material that is somewhat absorbent to soak in the foam and glue. I would always use glue to set the hook, you need to get into all the nooks and crannies. Molding foam around a hook shank doesn't do that reliably. Had a friend who was working on a similar idea for salt water crab patterns. Not sure how far along he got on it. I will be using barbell eyes for the crawfish patterns to anchor the rear end of the crawfish. Best bet is just to go buy a package of the foam and get to playing. The stuff is ridiculously cheap and available widely. Once you open the package, store the stuff in a small, sealed jar. Wes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
RE: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique/Crystal Meth
Crystal Meth is illegal in Illinois:) Reminds me that a while back we had a Drinks Fly swap. It was a fun swap. But I don't know if we could find enough patterns for a Recreational Drugs Fly swap. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique
I don't think I'd call this a fly. I'd call it a synthetic lure as it resembles many of the bass bugs I use on a spinning rod. Joyce On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Michael Bliss flyfish...@gmail.com wrote: Wes, These look great but the real question is have you fished them and have they caught those big trout you shared with us on-line? Mike On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Wes Wada wada@gmail.com wrote: Hi You All, I mentioned in a previous post that I have been very busy and involved with fly tying. For the last year and a half, I've developed a style and technique of tying using kids' modeling clay -- Crayola brand's Model Magic -- as a basis for new fly patterns. These have included an October Caddis pupa, a Field Cricket, and a Dragonfly Nymph. Attached are the first three Green Frogs, in the order that they were created. Materials are: white moldable foam, polypropylene yarn, rubber legs, and various flash materials. Coloring is acrylic paint and art marker. The eyes are created with fabric paint. All of this is mounted on a large stinger hook. The space behind the eye of the hook is where a new type of weed guard will be tied in. There are a good number of ideas going into this fly. The frog's legs are springy and hold their shape, and you can make the shapes surprisingly fast. The legs are shaped with a simple jig I've invented. The body length, not including the legs, is 2 inches. The fly is lightweight, a tenth of an ounce. I've developed a technique that solidly anchors the hook in the hardened foam. That's been battled tested. I make about five frogs at a time, mass producing all the parts. Assembly is very quick. The bodies are all quite similar, as they are all made at the same time, using the same tools. The basic shape is still in progress. The variety of legs possible is a heap of fun. Coloring can take as long as you want. These are early prototypes, so I didn't spend a whole lot of time coloring them, maybe three minutes each. Green Frog is the name of a common pond frog. These are hand-held digital photos. I will be redoing the shots later with studio equipment. Also, the fly is still evolving, and who knows what it will be like or look like in a month or two. Hope you enjoy seeing some new stuff. I've sure enjoyed the puttering around... Wes Wada Bend, Oregon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- Mike Bliss Aloha from Hawaii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique
It also resembles a lot of the bass bugs used on a fly rod. :) The fly is tied for initial use at Davis Lake in the Oregon Cascades. This is a fishery that used be prime for big rainbows until illegally planted largemouths took over. There are bucketmouths there in the 6-7 pound range, and the fly fishers are intent to remove as many as possible (losing cause). The frog will see a lot of action starting in April. re: Mike Bliss's question. The big rainbows at Sugar Creek Ranch can be enticed by a popper fly, but that is half the size of these bugs. Not sure what reaction I will get until these are fished this season. It might help to scale them down in size. The three green frogs are literally the first three taken to a finished state in this project. Wes On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 3:24 AM, Joyce Westphal westpha...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think I'd call this a fly. I'd call it a synthetic lure as it resembles many of the bass bugs I use on a spinning rod. Joyce On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Michael Bliss flyfish...@gmail.comwrote: Wes, These look great but the real question is have you fished them and have they caught those big trout you shared with us on-line? Mike On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Wes Wada wada@gmail.com wrote: Hi You All, I mentioned in a previous post that I have been very busy and involved with fly tying. For the last year and a half, I've developed a style and technique of tying using kids' modeling clay -- Crayola brand's Model Magic -- as a basis for new fly patterns. These have included an October Caddis pupa, a Field Cricket, and a Dragonfly Nymph. Attached are the first three Green Frogs, in the order that they were created. Materials are: white moldable foam, polypropylene yarn, rubber legs, and various flash materials. Coloring is acrylic paint and art marker. The eyes are created with fabric paint. All of this is mounted on a large stinger hook. The space behind the eye of the hook is where a new type of weed guard will be tied in. There are a good number of ideas going into this fly. The frog's legs are springy and hold their shape, and you can make the shapes surprisingly fast. The legs are shaped with a simple jig I've invented. The body length, not including the legs, is 2 inches. The fly is lightweight, a tenth of an ounce. I've developed a technique that solidly anchors the hook in the hardened foam. That's been battled tested. I make about five frogs at a time, mass producing all the parts. Assembly is very quick. The bodies are all quite similar, as they are all made at the same time, using the same tools. The basic shape is still in progress. The variety of legs possible is a heap of fun. Coloring can take as long as you want. These are early prototypes, so I didn't spend a whole lot of time coloring them, maybe three minutes each. Green Frog is the name of a common pond frog. These are hand-held digital photos. I will be redoing the shots later with studio equipment. Also, the fly is still evolving, and who knows what it will be like or look like in a month or two. Hope you enjoy seeing some new stuff. I've sure enjoyed the puttering around... Wes Wada Bend, Oregon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- Mike Bliss Aloha from Hawaii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique
It might not not pass the test of being a fly here in Penna. The Penna code requires that most of the fly must be made of natural materials. Not man made rubber or plastics. Gary S. - Original Message - From: Wes Wada To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 9:04 AM Subject: Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique It also resembles a lot of the bass bugs used on a fly rod. :) The fly is tied for initial use at Davis Lake in the Oregon Cascades. This is a fishery that used be prime for big rainbows until illegally planted largemouths took over. There are bucketmouths there in the 6-7 pound range, and the fly fishers are intent to remove as many as possible (losing cause). The frog will see a lot of action starting in April. re: Mike Bliss's question. The big rainbows at Sugar Creek Ranch can be enticed by a popper fly, but that is half the size of these bugs. Not sure what reaction I will get until these are fished this season. It might help to scale them down in size. The three green frogs are literally the first three taken to a finished state in this project. Wes On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 3:24 AM, Joyce Westphal westpha...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think I'd call this a fly. I'd call it a synthetic lure as it resembles many of the bass bugs I use on a spinning rod. Joyce On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Michael Bliss flyfish...@gmail.com wrote: Wes, These look great but the real question is have you fished them and have they caught those big trout you shared with us on-line? Mike On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Wes Wada wada@gmail.com wrote: Hi You All, I mentioned in a previous post that I have been very busy and involved with fly tying. For the last year and a half, I've developed a style and technique of tying using kids' modeling clay -- Crayola brand's Model Magic -- as a basis for new fly patterns. These have included an October Caddis pupa, a Field Cricket, and a Dragonfly Nymph. Attached are the first three Green Frogs, in the order that they were created. Materials are: white moldable foam, polypropylene yarn, rubber legs, and various flash materials. Coloring is acrylic paint and art marker. The eyes are created with fabric paint. All of this is mounted on a large stinger hook. The space behind the eye of the hook is where a new type of weed guard will be tied in. There are a good number of ideas going into this fly. The frog's legs are springy and hold their shape, and you can make the shapes surprisingly fast. The legs are shaped with a simple jig I've invented. The body length, not including the legs, is 2 inches. The fly is lightweight, a tenth of an ounce. I've developed a technique that solidly anchors the hook in the hardened foam. That's been battled tested. I make about five frogs at a time, mass producing all the parts. Assembly is very quick. The bodies are all quite similar, as they are all made at the same time, using the same tools. The basic shape is still in progress. The variety of legs possible is a heap of fun. Coloring can take as long as you want. These are early prototypes, so I didn't spend a whole lot of time coloring them, maybe three minutes each. Green Frog is the name of a common pond frog. These are hand-held digital photos. I will be redoing the shots later with studio equipment. Also, the fly is still evolving, and who knows what it will be like or look like in a month or two. Hope you enjoy seeing some new stuff. I've sure enjoyed the puttering around... Wes Wada Bend, Oregon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- Mike Bliss Aloha from Hawaii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail
Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique
It does pass the Oregon regulations for fly-only waters. On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 7:21 AM, The Smiths aflyt...@comcast.net wrote: It might not not pass the test of being a fly here in Penna. The Penna code requires that most of the fly must be made of natural materials. Not man made rubber or plastics. Gary S. - Original Message - *From:* Wes Wada w...@wadaworks.com *To:* vfb-mail@googlegroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, February 09, 2010 9:04 AM *Subject:* Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique It also resembles a lot of the bass bugs used on a fly rod. :) The fly is tied for initial use at Davis Lake in the Oregon Cascades. This is a fishery that used be prime for big rainbows until illegally planted largemouths took over. There are bucketmouths there in the 6-7 pound range, and the fly fishers are intent to remove as many as possible (losing cause). The frog will see a lot of action starting in April. re: Mike Bliss's question. The big rainbows at Sugar Creek Ranch can be enticed by a popper fly, but that is half the size of these bugs. Not sure what reaction I will get until these are fished this season. It might help to scale them down in size. The three green frogs are literally the first three taken to a finished state in this project. Wes On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 3:24 AM, Joyce Westphal westpha...@gmail.comwrote: I don't think I'd call this a fly. I'd call it a synthetic lure as it resembles many of the bass bugs I use on a spinning rod. Joyce On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Michael Bliss flyfish...@gmail.comwrote: Wes, These look great but the real question is have you fished them and have they caught those big trout you shared with us on-line? Mike On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Wes Wada wada@gmail.com wrote: Hi You All, I mentioned in a previous post that I have been very busy and involved with fly tying. For the last year and a half, I've developed a style and technique of tying using kids' modeling clay -- Crayola brand's Model Magic -- as a basis for new fly patterns. These have included an October Caddis pupa, a Field Cricket, and a Dragonfly Nymph. Attached are the first three Green Frogs, in the order that they were created. Materials are: white moldable foam, polypropylene yarn, rubber legs, and various flash materials. Coloring is acrylic paint and art marker. The eyes are created with fabric paint. All of this is mounted on a large stinger hook. The space behind the eye of the hook is where a new type of weed guard will be tied in. There are a good number of ideas going into this fly. The frog's legs are springy and hold their shape, and you can make the shapes surprisingly fast. The legs are shaped with a simple jig I've invented. The body length, not including the legs, is 2 inches. The fly is lightweight, a tenth of an ounce. I've developed a technique that solidly anchors the hook in the hardened foam. That's been battled tested. I make about five frogs at a time, mass producing all the parts. Assembly is very quick. The bodies are all quite similar, as they are all made at the same time, using the same tools. The basic shape is still in progress. The variety of legs possible is a heap of fun. Coloring can take as long as you want. These are early prototypes, so I didn't spend a whole lot of time coloring them, maybe three minutes each. Green Frog is the name of a common pond frog. These are hand-held digital photos. I will be redoing the shots later with studio equipment. Also, the fly is still evolving, and who knows what it will be like or look like in a month or two. Hope you enjoy seeing some new stuff. I've sure enjoyed the puttering around... Wes Wada Bend, Oregon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- Mike Bliss Aloha from Hawaii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique
Would a bead-head ice-dub caddis larva qualify? Or syn-seal? IMW2K, D - Original Message - From: The Smiths To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 8:21 AM Subject: Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique It might not not pass the test of being a fly here in Penna. The Penna code requires that most of the fly must be made of natural materials. Not man made rubber or plastics. Gary S. - Original Message - From: Wes Wada To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 9:04 AM Subject: Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique It also resembles a lot of the bass bugs used on a fly rod. :) The fly is tied for initial use at Davis Lake in the Oregon Cascades. This is a fishery that used be prime for big rainbows until illegally planted largemouths took over. There are bucketmouths there in the 6-7 pound range, and the fly fishers are intent to remove as many as possible (losing cause). The frog will see a lot of action starting in April. re: Mike Bliss's question. The big rainbows at Sugar Creek Ranch can be enticed by a popper fly, but that is half the size of these bugs. Not sure what reaction I will get until these are fished this season. It might help to scale them down in size. The three green frogs are literally the first three taken to a finished state in this project. Wes On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 3:24 AM, Joyce Westphal westpha...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think I'd call this a fly. I'd call it a synthetic lure as it resembles many of the bass bugs I use on a spinning rod. Joyce On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Michael Bliss flyfish...@gmail.com wrote: Wes, These look great but the real question is have you fished them and have they caught those big trout you shared with us on-line? Mike On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Wes Wada wada@gmail.com wrote: Hi You All, I mentioned in a previous post that I have been very busy and involved with fly tying. For the last year and a half, I've developed a style and technique of tying using kids' modeling clay -- Crayola brand's Model Magic -- as a basis for new fly patterns. These have included an October Caddis pupa, a Field Cricket, and a Dragonfly Nymph. Attached are the first three Green Frogs, in the order that they were created. Materials are: white moldable foam, polypropylene yarn, rubber legs, and various flash materials. Coloring is acrylic paint and art marker. The eyes are created with fabric paint. All of this is mounted on a large stinger hook. The space behind the eye of the hook is where a new type of weed guard will be tied in. There are a good number of ideas going into this fly. The frog's legs are springy and hold their shape, and you can make the shapes surprisingly fast. The legs are shaped with a simple jig I've invented. The body length, not including the legs, is 2 inches. The fly is lightweight, a tenth of an ounce. I've developed a technique that solidly anchors the hook in the hardened foam. That's been battled tested. I make about five frogs at a time, mass producing all the parts. Assembly is very quick. The bodies are all quite similar, as they are all made at the same time, using the same tools. The basic shape is still in progress. The variety of legs possible is a heap of fun. Coloring can take as long as you want. These are early prototypes, so I didn't spend a whole lot of time coloring them, maybe three minutes each. Green Frog is the name of a common pond frog. These are hand-held digital photos. I will be redoing the shots later with studio equipment. Also, the fly is still evolving, and who knows what it will be like or look like in a month or two. Hope you enjoy seeing some new stuff. I've sure enjoyed the puttering around... Wes Wada Bend, Oregon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- Mike Bliss Aloha from Hawaii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from
RE: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique
Actually that is not quite true, Pennsylvania requires that fishing be done with artificial flies and streamers constructed of natural or synthetic materials, so long as all flies are constructed in a normal fashion on a single hook with components wound on or about the hook. Anything other than these items is prohibited. page 12 2009 Pennsylvania Fishing Summary Steelhead flies are a perfect example, e.g. crystal meth. My steelhead fly box hasn't got one fly made of natural materials. George Vincent _ From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of The Smiths Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:22 To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique It might not not pass the test of being a fly here in Penna. The Penna code requires that most of the fly must be made of natural materials. Not man made rubber or plastics. Gary S. - Original Message - From: Wes Wada mailto:w...@wadaworks.com To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 9:04 AM Subject: Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique It also resembles a lot of the bass bugs used on a fly rod. :) The fly is tied for initial use at Davis Lake in the Oregon Cascades. This is a fishery that used be prime for big rainbows until illegally planted largemouths took over. There are bucketmouths there in the 6-7 pound range, and the fly fishers are intent to remove as many as possible (losing cause). The frog will see a lot of action starting in April. re: Mike Bliss's question. The big rainbows at Sugar Creek Ranch can be enticed by a popper fly, but that is half the size of these bugs. Not sure what reaction I will get until these are fished this season. It might help to scale them down in size. The three green frogs are literally the first three taken to a finished state in this project. Wes On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 3:24 AM, Joyce Westphal westpha...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think I'd call this a fly. I'd call it a synthetic lure as it resembles many of the bass bugs I use on a spinning rod. Joyce On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Michael Bliss flyfish...@gmail.com wrote: Wes, These look great but the real question is have you fished them and have they caught those big trout you shared with us on-line? Mike On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Wes Wada wada@gmail.com wrote: Hi You All, I mentioned in a previous post that I have been very busy and involved with fly tying. For the last year and a half, I've developed a style and technique of tying using kids' modeling clay -- Crayola brand's Model Magic -- as a basis for new fly patterns. These have included an October Caddis pupa, a Field Cricket, and a Dragonfly Nymph. Attached are the first three Green Frogs, in the order that they were created. Materials are: white moldable foam, polypropylene yarn, rubber legs, and various flash materials. Coloring is acrylic paint and art marker. The eyes are created with fabric paint. All of this is mounted on a large stinger hook. The space behind the eye of the hook is where a new type of weed guard will be tied in. There are a good number of ideas going into this fly. The frog's legs are springy and hold their shape, and you can make the shapes surprisingly fast. The legs are shaped with a simple jig I've invented. The body length, not including the legs, is 2 inches. The fly is lightweight, a tenth of an ounce. I've developed a technique that solidly anchors the hook in the hardened foam. That's been battled tested. I make about five frogs at a time, mass producing all the parts. Assembly is very quick. The bodies are all quite similar, as they are all made at the same time, using the same tools. The basic shape is still in progress. The variety of legs possible is a heap of fun. Coloring can take as long as you want. These are early prototypes, so I didn't spend a whole lot of time coloring them, maybe three minutes each. Green Frog is the name of a common pond frog. These are hand-held digital photos. I will be redoing the shots later with studio equipment. Also, the fly is still evolving, and who knows what it will be like or look like in a month or two. Hope you enjoy seeing some new stuff. I've sure enjoyed the puttering around... Wes Wada Bend, Oregon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- Mike Bliss Aloha from Hawaii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options
Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique
Well its been few years since I have needed to buy a license so the last reg booklet I read may have been 2004 things do change. Gary S. - Original Message - From: George E Vincent To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 2:34 PM Subject: RE: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique Actually that is not quite true, Pennsylvania requires that fishing be done with artificial flies and streamers constructed of natural or synthetic materials, so long as all flies are constructed in a normal fashion on a single hook with components wound on or about the hook. Anything other than these items is prohibited. page 12 2009 Pennsylvania Fishing Summary Steelhead flies are a perfect example, e.g. crystal meth. My steelhead fly box hasn't got one fly made of natural materials. George Vincent -- From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of The Smiths Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:22 To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique It might not not pass the test of being a fly here in Penna. The Penna code requires that most of the fly must be made of natural materials. Not man made rubber or plastics. Gary S. - Original Message - From: Wes Wada To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 9:04 AM Subject: Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique It also resembles a lot of the bass bugs used on a fly rod. :) The fly is tied for initial use at Davis Lake in the Oregon Cascades. This is a fishery that used be prime for big rainbows until illegally planted largemouths took over. There are bucketmouths there in the 6-7 pound range, and the fly fishers are intent to remove as many as possible (losing cause). The frog will see a lot of action starting in April. re: Mike Bliss's question. The big rainbows at Sugar Creek Ranch can be enticed by a popper fly, but that is half the size of these bugs. Not sure what reaction I will get until these are fished this season. It might help to scale them down in size. The three green frogs are literally the first three taken to a finished state in this project. Wes On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 3:24 AM, Joyce Westphal westpha...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think I'd call this a fly. I'd call it a synthetic lure as it resembles many of the bass bugs I use on a spinning rod. Joyce On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Michael Bliss flyfish...@gmail.com wrote: Wes, These look great but the real question is have you fished them and have they caught those big trout you shared with us on-line? Mike On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Wes Wada wada@gmail.com wrote: Hi You All, I mentioned in a previous post that I have been very busy and involved with fly tying. For the last year and a half, I've developed a style and technique of tying using kids' modeling clay -- Crayola brand's Model Magic -- as a basis for new fly patterns. These have included an October Caddis pupa, a Field Cricket, and a Dragonfly Nymph. Attached are the first three Green Frogs, in the order that they were created. Materials are: white moldable foam, polypropylene yarn, rubber legs, and various flash materials. Coloring is acrylic paint and art marker. The eyes are created with fabric paint. All of this is mounted on a large stinger hook. The space behind the eye of the hook is where a new type of weed guard will be tied in. There are a good number of ideas going into this fly. The frog's legs are springy and hold their shape, and you can make the shapes surprisingly fast. The legs are shaped with a simple jig I've invented. The body length, not including the legs, is 2 inches. The fly is lightweight, a tenth of an ounce. I've developed a technique that solidly anchors the hook in the hardened foam. That's been battled tested. I make about five frogs at a time, mass producing all the parts. Assembly is very quick. The bodies are all quite similar, as they are all made at the same time, using the same tools. The basic shape is still in progress. The variety of legs possible is a heap of fun. Coloring can take as long as you want. These are early prototypes, so I didn't spend a whole lot of time coloring them, maybe three minutes each. Green Frog is the name of a common pond frog. These are hand-held digital photos. I will be redoing the shots later with studio equipment. Also, the fly is still evolving, and who knows what it will be like
Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique
So a bead-nymph with beads glued in place is illegal? Same for a hot-glue trout egg? What about a coffee-bean beetle (epoxied to the hook)? For every rule there's how many loopholes?? Buggs - Original Message - From: George Vincent k...@verizon.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 3:53 PM Subject: RE: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique Actually that is not quite true, Pennsylvania requires that fishing be done with artificial flies and streamers constructed of natural or synthetic materials, so long as all flies are constructed in a normal fashion on a single hook with components wound on or about the hook. Anything other than these items is prohibited. page 12 2009 Pennsylvania Fishing Summary Steelhead flies are a perfect example, e.g. crystal meth. My steelhead fly box hasn't got one fly made of natural materials. George Vincent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] A New Fly and Technique
Wes, These look great but the real question is have you fished them and have they caught those big trout you shared with us on-line? Mike On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Wes Wada wada@gmail.com wrote: Hi You All, I mentioned in a previous post that I have been very busy and involved with fly tying. For the last year and a half, I've developed a style and technique of tying using kids' modeling clay -- Crayola brand's Model Magic -- as a basis for new fly patterns. These have included an October Caddis pupa, a Field Cricket, and a Dragonfly Nymph. Attached are the first three Green Frogs, in the order that they were created. Materials are: white moldable foam, polypropylene yarn, rubber legs, and various flash materials. Coloring is acrylic paint and art marker. The eyes are created with fabric paint. All of this is mounted on a large stinger hook. The space behind the eye of the hook is where a new type of weed guard will be tied in. There are a good number of ideas going into this fly. The frog's legs are springy and hold their shape, and you can make the shapes surprisingly fast. The legs are shaped with a simple jig I've invented. The body length, not including the legs, is 2 inches. The fly is lightweight, a tenth of an ounce. I've developed a technique that solidly anchors the hook in the hardened foam. That's been battled tested. I make about five frogs at a time, mass producing all the parts. Assembly is very quick. The bodies are all quite similar, as they are all made at the same time, using the same tools. The basic shape is still in progress. The variety of legs possible is a heap of fun. Coloring can take as long as you want. These are early prototypes, so I didn't spend a whole lot of time coloring them, maybe three minutes each. Green Frog is the name of a common pond frog. These are hand-held digital photos. I will be redoing the shots later with studio equipment. Also, the fly is still evolving, and who knows what it will be like or look like in a month or two. Hope you enjoy seeing some new stuff. I've sure enjoyed the puttering around... Wes Wada Bend, Oregon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- Mike Bliss Aloha from Hawaii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
