[videoblogging] Re: Video Goes Underground
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, taulpaulmpls [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed Jon, The example I pointed out was vague terminology. The real conversation was much more specific when we asked the content creator what they were willing, and not willing to do. When that was agreed upon, the pricing was a separate issue. Another great point you made, and I agree with, is that every content creator has a different set of standards for partnerships with sponsors (advertisers), and each will be willing or not willing to do certain things. (i.e. endorsements may not be ok, but placement scripted into the video may be just fine) That gives the creator freedom to make that choice. I remember this guy who was doing videos when I first started in this group. He was hunting for Civil War relics on battlefields in the south. His videos showed him using a metal detector, how to look for these types of artifacts, and how to identify the artifacts. I had little interest in this type of hobby, but the content was consistent, and I could see the benefit for enthusiasts in this area. I believe this example went into the long tail, and I saw multiple opportunities for sponsorship, if he chose to go that direction. Dear Paul, How can you talk about multiple opportunities for sponsorship when you do not believe in the thing you are sponsoring? I am aware Civil War enthusiasm has turned into a cottage industry and the marketers are paying attention to us now. And while I appreciate your vulture advice, I hope you don't take this the wrong way when I tell you to buzz off. If I accepted sponsorships from outside of the historical community, it would change the very nature of what I am doing. No longer would I be serving this community, instead I would be serving the sponsors who quite frankly, I do not believe care one lick about the Civil War. Your statement that you have no interest in the hobby only reinforces this belief. I know you think sponsorships will help make my program more accessible. You believe accessibility and an expanded audience to be a good thing. But how far will it go? I have no doubt I could deliver millions of viral views if I showed my buttcrack while loading a musket. Paul! You do not understand this hobby! And you do not understand the importance of things! The small, yet enthusiastic, audience are the reason my consistent content exists in the first place. And I will not let your commercial schemes alienate them. Thank you, Buzz off, - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Thanks for your feedback Jon, -Paul --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, ractalfece john@ wrote: Marketers and Advertisers are way behind on knowing how to work with online content creators. I've been in the community for 4 years, and sometimes I don't know where to start. Networks like Rev3 and NNN, have made it a bit easier to work with these shows, but most content creators will never work with them. There's just a shitload of content out there. I've approached a couple content creators about sponsorship. I've asked how much they charge. *cue crickets*. I'll explain why you're getting crickets. The word sponsorship summons up this glorious relationship where the sponsor gives money because they believe in the cause or the work. Take Where The Hell Is Matt? http://wherethehellismatt.com/ Scroll down to the bottom and in the left hand corner you'll see a tiny image for Stride. From the Where The Hell is Matt? FAQ: BEGIN FAQ Did they make you chew gum on your trip? They didn't make me do much of anything. They are very good people. Did they tell you where to go? Nope. They said, and I'm quoting here: We like what you're doing. We want to help you. We don't want to mess with you. These words charmed me, and they stayed true to them. Did they edit the video for you? Nope. I came home, put it together, sorted the music out, and slapped it up on the internet. That was pretty much it. Like I said: good people. Do you get lots of free gum? I get lots of free gum. How did you find them? They found me. END FAQ. That is real sponsorship. Now do you see how absurd it is to ask how much creators charge for sponsorship? It's like asking, how much would it cost me to give you money because I believe in what you're doing? It sounds like what you're really asking is, how much does it cost to put a commercial on your broadcast? Or maybe you're asking, how much for your endorsement? Or maybe you're asking how much does it cost to have endorsements made for my product and run on your broadcast? And that's fine. Just use the correct words and maybe it won't be so confusing for people. I've got a panel submission for SXSWi, on what marketers look for in a video content creator. We'll
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Video Goes Underground
For the record; Knut Hamsun (and his character in Hunger, incidentally) both had to 'deal with people'. The character in Hunger spends much of his time trying desperately to get paid, and - ironically perhaps - finds that when he does get paid, he can no longer work. Hamsun was a much admired author in Norway until he started meddling in politics and made himself incredibly unpopular. He even received the Nobel Price for literature, luckily, perhaps, before the aforementioned meddling in politics left him with fewer friends among the so-called norwegian cultural elite (contradiction in terms, I know... ;-)) Trine On 8/9/08, ractalfece [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see the philosophical difference. I understand starving for art. Knut Hamsun's Hunger. Great book. But here's the difference between Knut and me. I'm starving and dealing with people. Why should I have to accept the hardships of fame without compensation? I don't. That's why I can't guarantee in the future you'll be able to see my work without paying. - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jen Proctor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sorry that you've had hard financial times. I could go into the financial straits my family and I have endured as well, but I don't think that's the point. I don't think the hardship of living out of a car is still any kind of justification that art is best served within commodity culture. I'm not saying that YOU should remove your work from commodity culture. That's not my argument - you should do whatever you feel is right for your work and your life, and I completely respect that. I just take issue with the notion that asking viewers to pay the individual maker for online video is any kind of revolution or, ultimately, a viable solution. It's simply a philosophical disagreement - power to ya to do whatever is right for you. I just can't guarantee that I'll pay to watch your work. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, ractalfece john@ wrote: So I guess my point regarding Information Dystopia is that as much as I'd like to see artists better compensated for their work, whether through public funding or individual donations, as requested in the video, the disconnect from this larger history makes the call for compensation feel more like hubris than a revolution. The situation we are in as artists on the web is nothing new in terms of trying to make money. To me, as Rupert has stated earlier, the greater revolution of the web is in the possibilities for removing our work from commodity culture - making the work free, accessible, open, and remixable. Jen, watch this video response I did to Mark Horowitz's 7 Days in a Sentra ad campaign. Mark Horriblewitz's video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eMXE2Z58QI My response: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHFPsx_7id0 Then tell me about removing my work from commodity culture. - john@ - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] trine.blogs.com henrikisak.blogspot.com twitter.com/trine
[videoblogging] Re: Video Goes Underground
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, trine bjørkmann berry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the record; Knut Hamsun (and his character in Hunger, incidentally) both had to 'deal with people'. The character in Hunger spends much of his time trying desperately to get paid, and - ironically perhaps - finds that when he does get paid, he can no longer work. Yes. Hamsun and the character had to deal with people. But he wasn't getting millions of views of Hunger without compensation. There are many pitfalls of fame and power. Maybe those pitfalls are worse than fame and poverty, as Hamsun's political meddlings suggest. Hamsun was a much admired author in Norway until he started meddling in politics and made himself incredibly unpopular. He even received the Nobel Price for literature, luckily, perhaps, before the aforementioned meddling in politics left him with fewer friends among the so-called norwegian cultural elite (contradiction in terms, I know... ;-)) Trine On 8/9/08, ractalfece [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see the philosophical difference. I understand starving for art. Knut Hamsun's Hunger. Great book. But here's the difference between Knut and me. I'm starving and dealing with people. Why should I have to accept the hardships of fame without compensation? I don't. That's why I can't guarantee in the future you'll be able to see my work without paying. - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jen Proctor proctorjen@ wrote: I'm sorry that you've had hard financial times. I could go into the financial straits my family and I have endured as well, but I don't think that's the point. I don't think the hardship of living out of a car is still any kind of justification that art is best served within commodity culture. I'm not saying that YOU should remove your work from commodity culture. That's not my argument - you should do whatever you feel is right for your work and your life, and I completely respect that. I just take issue with the notion that asking viewers to pay the individual maker for online video is any kind of revolution or, ultimately, a viable solution. It's simply a philosophical disagreement - power to ya to do whatever is right for you. I just can't guarantee that I'll pay to watch your work. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, ractalfece john@ wrote: So I guess my point regarding Information Dystopia is that as much as I'd like to see artists better compensated for their work, whether through public funding or individual donations, as requested in the video, the disconnect from this larger history makes the call for compensation feel more like hubris than a revolution. The situation we are in as artists on the web is nothing new in terms of trying to make money. To me, as Rupert has stated earlier, the greater revolution of the web is in the possibilities for removing our work from commodity culture - making the work free, accessible, open, and remixable. Jen, watch this video response I did to Mark Horowitz's 7 Days in a Sentra ad campaign. Mark Horriblewitz's video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eMXE2Z58QI My response: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHFPsx_7id0 Then tell me about removing my work from commodity culture. - john@ - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] trine.blogs.com henrikisak.blogspot.com twitter.com/trine
