Re: [videoblogging] Stop this petty Squabbling
I haven't seen any of these interviews, and only occasionally watch Rocketboom, so I haven't got upset about it. Okay, maybe Andrew's gone over to the dark side. But, to be fair, many others have made this kind of comment as well, and every time this group has leaped up to defend our artistic merit. With all due (and serious) respect to Michael and everyone else, perhaps we take ourselves a little too seriously? Sure, videoblogging in general is important as an _expression_ of the fact that EVERYONE can make TV. There is real power in that, and as a phenomenon it will have major impact on the world. But, to be honest, when we look at individual vlogs, most of us (myself included) aren't that good at making TV. There's a reason why the folks in Hollywood get paid the big bucks: they're professionals. Over time, some of us will learn to make equally compelling content. But most of us are playing to niche audiences, and always will. I know that my videos are mostly interesting to my friends and family, people who like to look at images of Italy, Indians nostalgic for rumali roti, and a few other very small categories. That's fine with me. I'm making them mostly for fun and to see what I can do with the medium, not to prove a point or gain a large audience. There's nothing wrong with being out on the long tail, but we shouldn't feel dissed when someone points out that that's exactly where we are. My niche media may not appeal to you or yours to me, but we can each be sure that it appeals to someone out there. Most of us would agree that 99% of the entertainment available to us today is crap (though we don't all agree on which 1% is the good stuff). That proportion isn't going to change just because there's more of us making it. On 11/22/05, Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And it's not like it was just one comment that was just not worded aswell as he would have liked.He does it over and over again.It'sgot to stop.But read the other thread.Andrew doesn't see aproblem here.He says he stands by everything he's said. Personally, I worked too hard and I've watched many of you work toohard to have to put up with that crap.It would be one thing if hewas just voicing his personal dislike of a particular thing.But forthe creator of the most downloaded videoblog to, time and time again, dismiss most of the rest of us every time he gets interviewed, wellthat's got to do some damage.Don't you think?-- best regards,Deirdré Straughan www.beginningwithi.com (personal)www.tvblob.com (work) YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Stop this petty Squabbling
Apart from that, Mefeedia is right now just plain the best place tofind videoblogs. Perhaps in a year from now, vlogs.yahoo.com will be the best place tofind videoblogs, or perhaps not :)to follow my theme of the day (apparently), let the audience decide =)i used to work in marketing and hated when i had to make factual claims that were opinion based. 2 words can help avoid this...heheh. one of the best is josh leo the best videoblogger or one of the best? i love josh leo.i love mefeedia (maybe thats why I gave it its name- wink wink) i love peter.i'll shut up now.out. -- sull- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -The hybrid or the meeting of two media is a moment of truth and revelation from which new form is born- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://vlogdir.com - The Videoblog Directoryhttp://videobloggers.org - Free Videoblog Hosting / Vlogosphere Aggregator http://interdigitate.com - on again off again personal vlog SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Typepad Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Stop this petty Squabbling
I had put make TV in quotes precisely because making TV is not what most of us are after, but that is how we are perceived by many outsiders. It is not a matter of them being professionals, because the moment you gave one of those professionals a camera, computer, and internet connection and told them to go make an extremely compelling vlog alone, it would end up being just like (if not worse) than ours. That's a very tall claim, and insulting to the professionals who give us beautiful things to watch. There are a lot of people out there who know a lot more about visual storytelling, camera angles, lighting, etc. than I do. Professional equipment is only part of the story. I'm sure that Ken Burns could take the footage of my interview with my dad and make something a lot more compelling out of it (not to mention that he would have gotten a better interview to begin with), even using the same lousy camera and cheap editing software that I did. That doesn't bother me - if anything, it gives me something to strive for, and I'm enjoying learning. But I don't kid myself that I will ever get or even deserve a Ken Burns type of audience. -- best regards,Deirdré Straughanwww.beginningwithi.com (personal) www.tvblob.com (work YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Stop this petty Squabbling
I think this argument could be settled if Andrew simply pointed to other outstanding vlogs. I find that three out of four, even five out of six of all the vlogs I decide to watch (which is only about one or two per page on Blip TV) are very disappointing. If someone spent two or three hours watching every vlog posted, one after the other, the result would be tedium and a splitting headache. I find vlogging is somewhat like panning for gold. You sift through a lot of stuff and here and there you find something that really sparkles. And, yes, certain vloggers are almost always outstanding and interesting even when tackling dull subjects. So, one carefully selects the books one reads. You don't run into a library or a bookstore and grab something. That is why we need a Vlog Digest. It would be a sorting place where people who were interested in art vlogs could find a selection with a couple paragraphs description attached. This happens a wee bit with comments. However, few people leave comments. That is the real shame. Some great work goes unappreciated. Whenever I see a vlog that really has a spark in it, I leave encouraging feedback. I rarely leave negative remarks. In fact, I think I posted my very first one yesterday on a video entitled "Eat Shit" that had terrible music but also contained great footage of fancy skateboarding--complete with great camera angles catching the action. Yes, there is Vlogdir and Vlogmap and the aggregator engines. However, they all just gather all the leaves falling from the video camera tree when capturing the vibrancy and color of the leaves is a more complicated and compelling task. Randolfe (Randy) Wicker Videographer, Writer, ActivistAdvisor: The Immortality InstituteHoboken, NJhttp://www.randywickerreporting.blogspot.com/201-656-3280 - Original Message - From: Deirdre Straughan To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 4:42 AM Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Stop this petty Squabbling I haven't seen any of these interviews, and only occasionally watch Rocketboom, so I haven't got upset about it. Okay, maybe Andrew's gone over to the dark side. But, to be fair, many others have made this kind of comment as well, and every time this group has leaped up to defend our artistic merit.With all due (and serious) respect to Michael and everyone else, perhaps we take ourselves a little too seriously?Sure, videoblogging in general is important as an _expression_ of the fact that EVERYONE can "make TV". There is real power in that, and as a phenomenon it will have major impact on the world.But, to be honest, when we look at individual vlogs, most of us (myself included) aren't that good at making TV. There's a reason why the folks in Hollywood get paid the big bucks: they're professionals. Over time, some of us will learn to make equally compelling content. But most of us are playing to niche audiences, and always will. I know that my videos are mostly interesting to my friends and family, people who like to look at images of Italy, Indians nostalgic for rumali roti, and a few other very small categories. That's fine with me. I'm making them mostly for fun and to see what I can do with the medium, not to prove a point or gain a large audience.There's nothing wrong with being out on the long tail, but we shouldn't feel dissed when someone points out that that's exactly where we are. My niche media may not appeal to you or yours to me, but we can each be sure that it appeals to someone out there.Most of us would agree that 99% of the "entertainment" available to us today is crap (though we don't all agree on which 1% is the good stuff). That proportion isn't going to change just because there's more of us making it. On 11/22/05, Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And it's not like it was just one comment that was just not worded aswell as he would have liked.He does it over and over again.It'sgot to stop.But read the other thread.Andrew doesn't see aproblem here.He says he stands by everything he's said. Personally, I worked too hard and I've watched many of you work toohard to have to put up with that crap.It would be one thing if hewas just voicing his personal dislike of a particular thing.But forthe creator of the most downloaded videoblog to, time and time again, dismiss most of the rest of us every time he gets interviewed, wellthat's got to do some damage.Don't you think?-- best regards,Deirdré Straughanwww.beginningwithi.com (personal)www.tvblob.com (work) YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Stop this petty Squabbling
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:31:07 +0100, Randolfe Wicker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is why we need a Vlog Digest. It would be a sorting place where people who were interested in art vlogs could find a selection with a couple paragraphs description attached. Blogs are self-organizing systems. Whenever you see something you like post a comment about it on your blog and link to the blog entry. When everyone does this the problem is automagically solved. - Andreas -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Stop this petty Squabbling
I agree, That knowledge of these things does pay a huge role in the final end product. and I also agree that there are people with an amazing amount of skill that could do amazing things. I guess I was just trying to get the idea that the money + time + resources + other people is the main factor of why television shows and movies are so good (production quality, and some content). If I took the time to actually set up a studio/lighting/microphones and didn't have to hold the camera myself etc..i might be able to make a closer-to-professional quality video. But i also know that I have a paper to write later that night so spending a day on making a video is not the best use of my time (especially when I don't get paid for it) I do know some things about lighting, audio, editing, and visual storytelling, but there is much for me to still learn. I will never be able to produce the content that is up the the standards of Hollywood because i do not have the time, money, contacts. However, I am trying to learn more, maybe get FCP certification, take a documentary production class...somewhere down the line. I do what I can with what I have, and that is the most i can ask from myself. and though I might agree with you that I made a bit of a tall claim, I think that these professionals are skilled in areas and work together to create a final product. There may be some who could jump in and produce amazing content right off the bat, but I think that a specialist in lighting may have a hard time getting used to being in front of the camera...not saying that they would never be skilled at it, but vloggers wear many hats (talent, director, editor, audio, lighting, maybe even writing) and putting on those hats isn't always easy. just some additional thoughtsno real argument here...On 11/23/05, Deirdre Straughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's a very tall claim, and insulting to the professionals who give us beautiful things to watch. There are a lot of people out there who know a lot more about visual storytelling, camera angles, lighting, etc. than I do. Professional equipment is only part of the story. I'm sure that Ken Burns could take the footage of my interview with my dad and make something a lot more compelling out of it (not to mention that he would have gotten a better interview to begin with), even using the same lousy camera and cheap editing software that I did. That doesn't bother me - if anything, it gives me something to strive for, and I'm enjoying learning. But I don't kid myself that I will ever get or even deserve a Ken Burns type of audience. -- best regards,Deirdré Straughanwww.beginningwithi.com (personal) www.tvblob.com (work YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group videoblogging on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- Josh Leojoshleo.comstonefarm.blogspot.com joshspicks.blogspot.comvlogcats.blogspot.comwearethemedia.com SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Stop this petty Squabbling
didn't we already go over this topic? vlog soup, ryannes revog, my picks, WATM's vlog digest, richard's picks, the watchthis tagwe are filtering out the good stuffOn 11/23/05, Randolfe Wicker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is why we need a Vlog Digest. It would be a sorting place where people who were interested in art vlogs could find a selection with a couple paragraphs description attached. -- Josh Leojoshleo.comstonefarm.blogspot.com joshspicks.blogspot.comvlogcats.blogspot.comwearethemedia.com YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Stop this petty Squabbling
Randolfe Wicker wrote: If someone spent two or three hours watching every vlog posted, one after the other, the result would be tedium and a splitting headache. Not necessarily. I try to keep up on as many as possible for a variety of reasons. Perhaps it depends on what you're looking for in the videos. I find vlogging is somewhat like panning for gold. You sift through a lot of stuff and here and there you find something that really sparkles. Now that's true. But, so far, no headache. Also, there are many other gems and valuable nuggets than just gold in them thar streams. -- My name is Markus Sandy and I am app.etitio.us http://apperceptions.org http://digitaldojo.blogspot.com http://spinflow.org http://wearethemedia.com http://www.corante.com/events/feedfest/ aim/ichat: [EMAIL PROTECTED] msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: msandy spin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Typepad Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Stop this petty Squabbling
I've been reading this group for the last week or so and have been officially video podcasting for a about the same time. What I find perplexing is the hand wringing over Rocketboom and it's perceived slights to the video podcasting community. kent-- im going to keep your email below...becasue its good reference. I hope the back and forth between Verdi and Baron didnt scare too many new people off. but its a good example of where we're at. as a community we just need to learn respect for each other. the personal videobloggers shouldnt diss the shows. the shows should diss the personal videobloggers. or if anyone does...be prepared for criticism. as Kent says below when talking to press, we should all celebrate the fact that we can all be our own video producers AND distribution. this is the revolution. jay 1. People have been trying to break into the television business by using streaming video for the last ten years. It's only been in the last year or so that there has been a tipping point of cheap broadband and easy access to video technology that allows people to really be creative. And radio stations have been trying to do the same thing with streaming their audio on the web. It was only with the invention of RSS and the ability to whip off an MP3 that podcasting and internet radio became a phenomenon. 2. Old media has money, and they solve problems with money. They're able to show up everyday with hours of fresh and good looking programming because they have money. Rocket Boom is the best in class video podcast. Not because it's clever, or has amazing production values, but because it shows up everyday. That consistency has a tremendous value. And I would say that anyone who is jealous of that or thinks they can do better to just do it. There is nothing stopping you. RB has a tremendous room for improvement -- as does any human endeavour. If you can do better, please do. Video blogging and video podcasts in general are enjoyable because they have immediacy and an unfiltered perspective that people crave. My favorite video podcast right now is http://TikiBarTv.com -- it has a really fun perspective that I don't see anywhere else and great production value. But it only comes out once a month. If their were RSS feeds for http://Homestarrunner.com and http://Roosterteeth.com I jump on them in a second. 3. The iPod video is the first mass appeal gadget designed to work with downloaded video. The PSP could do it before, but it's kind of a pain and Sony would prefer you bought UMD movies. The video iPod gives us as content creators a tool -- it plays on the Video iPod. Which means people with quicktime or players of similar compatibility (PSPs included) will also be able to see our work. 4. The real future for all of this is being able to send our video material not only to pocket level devices like iPods and PSPs, but when Tivos themselves will reed mRSS feeds and be able to subscribe to your favorite podcasts on your TV. 5. It seems obvious that the popular content producers will be co-opted by big media if they let themselves. While the artists and iconoclasts will remain small and personal. 6. We are in the period of video podcasting and video P2P sharing right now where music was 8 years ago. There's a lot of dedicated hobbyists out there who collect TV shows and movies from the net and trade them. But soon Big Media will aggressively enter this market. iTunes has started it, and the Howard Stern deal and others have started to make consumers comfortable with the idea of getting the shows they want when they want them, rather than being broadcast at an arbitrary time. 7. What does this all mean for this group of 1600ish people reading this? Get good at creating video that people want to watch. If you can establish yourself right now when there are less than 200 video podcasts on Podcast Alley you're going to have a better chance at 'winning' in the end. And what does winning even mean? Does it mean having podcast geeks swarm you like Dawn and Drew did at the Podcast expo? Getting a show on MTV? For me video podcasting is the synthesis of years of filmmaking and trying to break through into Hollywood. It allows me an avenue to find an audience without going through a gatekeeper. If people like what I'm doing they'll come back for more. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/u8TY5A/tzNLAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Stop this petty Squabbling
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 21:04:40 +0100, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: as a community we just need to learn respect for each other. the personal videobloggers shouldnt diss the shows. the shows should diss the personal videobloggers. or if anyone does...be prepared for criticism. Moz Hussain from MSN Spaces spoke at Bloggforum last weekend. Part of his presentation was about different types of blogs. I got one photo here: URL: http://23hq.dk/andreas/photo/249813/view-large It is important but to say that one thing is more or less bloggy than another based on the purpose of its creation or the author's status in society. The distinction is made based on the characteristica of the website and how it is read. as Kent says below when talking to press, we should all celebrate the fact that we can all be our own video producers AND distribution. this is the revolution. It's one revolution, but not the only one made possible by videoblogging. - Andreas -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Stop this petty Squabbling
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:39:48 +0100, Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 22, 2005, at 3:00 PM, Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen wrote: as Kent says below when talking to press, we should all celebrate the fact that we can all be our own video producers AND distribution. this is the revolution. It's one revolution, but not the only one made possible by videoblogging. Exactly. That's why I get upset when the people from Rocketboom get interviewed and say that most videobloggers don't understand the weblog medium and that what we produce is little more than off-topic, unthreaded banter about night time dreams and trivial activities. There are at least two revolutions: - Distribution can be done by anyone. - Blogs are a new medium. The first is not limited to blogging. Podcasting and IPTV and webzines are all players in that revolution along with 15 million other projects. The latter is bound to blogs, whether rocketboom or michaelverdi.com have more bloggy blogs is a really boring discussion. One could argue it both ways easily because either site use the blog medium in different ways. I would prefer if the personal touch got left out of this discussion. Go after the ball, not the man. - Andreas -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- AIDS in India: A lurking bomb. Click and help stop AIDS now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/VpTY2A/lzNLAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Stop this petty Squabbling
Aside from what Andrew Baron does or does not say every time he gets interviewed...Aren't videoblogs and videobloggers supposed to be beyond the control of any one person's or publication's or organization's whims? If you don't like what he's saying, can't you just say something different?Just a thought.Leaving the area now, back to the Red States I go to drink heavily and eat heartily with Hoosiers. New Indiana Hick Videos coming soon to a Bullemhead near you.Ok,AQ SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Typepad Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[videoblogging] Stop this petty Squabbling
I've been reading this group for the last week or so and have been officially video podcasting for a about the same time. What I find perplexing is the hand wringing over Rocketboom and it's perceived slights to the video podcasting community. 1. People have been trying to break into the television business by using streaming video for the last ten years. It's only been in the last year or so that there has been a tipping point of cheap broadband and easy access to video technology that allows people to really be creative. And radio stations have been trying to do the same thing with streaming their audio on the web. It was only with the invention of RSS and the ability to whip off an MP3 that podcasting and internet radio became a phenomenon. 2. Old media has money, and they solve problems with money. They're able to show up everyday with hours of fresh and good looking programming because they have money. Rocket Boom is the best in class video podcast. Not because it's clever, or has amazing production values, but because it shows up everyday. That consistency has a tremendous value. And I would say that anyone who is jealous of that or thinks they can do better to just do it. There is nothing stopping you. RB has a tremendous room for improvement -- as does any human endeavour. If you can do better, please do. Video blogging and video podcasts in general are enjoyable because they have immediacy and an unfiltered perspective that people crave. My favorite video podcast right now is http://TikiBarTv.com -- it has a really fun perspective that I don't see anywhere else and great production value. But it only comes out once a month. If their were RSS feeds for http://Homestarrunner.com and http://Roosterteeth.com I jump on them in a second. 3. The iPod video is the first mass appeal gadget designed to work with downloaded video. The PSP could do it before, but it's kind of a pain and Sony would prefer you bought UMD movies. The video iPod gives us as content creators a tool -- it plays on the Video iPod. Which means people with quicktime or players of similar compatibility (PSPs included) will also be able to see our work. 4. The real future for all of this is being able to send our video material not only to pocket level devices like iPods and PSPs, but when Tivos themselves will reed mRSS feeds and be able to subscribe to your favorite podcasts on your TV. 5. It seems obvious that the popular content producers will be co-opted by big media if they let themselves. While the artists and iconoclasts will remain small and personal. 6. We are in the period of video podcasting and video P2P sharing right now where music was 8 years ago. There's a lot of dedicated hobbyists out there who collect TV shows and movies from the net and trade them. But soon Big Media will aggressively enter this market. iTunes has started it, and the Howard Stern deal and others have started to make consumers comfortable with the idea of getting the shows they want when they want them, rather than being broadcast at an arbitrary time. 7. What does this all mean for this group of 1600ish people reading this? Get good at creating video that people want to watch. If you can establish yourself right now when there are less than 200 video podcasts on Podcast Alley you're going to have a better chance at 'winning' in the end. And what does winning even mean? Does it mean having podcast geeks swarm you like Dawn and Drew did at the Podcast expo? Getting a show on MTV? For me video podcasting is the synthesis of years of filmmaking and trying to break through into Hollywood. It allows me an avenue to find an audience without going through a gatekeeper. If people like what I'm doing they'll come back for more. -K -- Kent Nicholshttp://beatboxgiant.blogspot.com YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
