[Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

[Wochna, Lorraine]

Hello all,
I need some advice here; this is a bit new to me in terms of the legality of 
use.  Here is the scenario:

We are doing a big ALICE in WONDERLAND promo gig (display, film and speaker).

The student working on the PR would like to use a scene from 5 different 
versions of ALICE IN WONDERLAND.
We would then like to put it on the web (our library page, but it would be 
accessible to all).

In the world of 'fair use' and 'remix' can we do this legally?
I don't feel qualified to give a definitive yes or no on this.
Your advice is greatly appreciated.

Best,
lorraine



lorraine wochna
African American Studies, English Lit, Performing Arts Librarian
Alden Library, 2nd floor
Ohio University
Athens OH  45701
W 740-597-1238
CHAT WITH ME:  http://libguides.library.ohiou.edu/prf.php?account_id=7943
MAKE APPT:  http://ohiou.libcal.com/appointment/2001
[small card lorraine]


VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

[Bergman, Barbara J]

Yes, I think what Lorraine proposed is Fair Use. It's a limited portion, and 
creating a mashup to advertise the event is a transformative use (i.e. 
different from original purpose of entertainment).
Although I'd leave out Disney if you're feeling cautious.

p.s. the 3 minutes guideline is only a commonly accepted practice, not actually 
part of the copyright law.

Have fun.

Barb Bergman | Media Services & Interlibrary Loan Librarian | Minnesota State 
University, Mankato | (507) 389-5945 | 
barbara.berg...@mnsu.edu


VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

[Brian W Boling]

Hi Farhad,

Kenneth Crews at Columbia has written a fairly lengthy article on how Fair
Use guidelines (including the CONFU guidelines to which the link you
provided refer) do not have the force of law.  Furthermore, following such
guidelines tends to limit the application of Fair Use as described within
the law, while not actually guaranteeing a "safe harbor".  You can find the
full article here:
The Law of Fair Use and the Illusion of Fair-Use Guidelines
<http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1588292>
For those without the inclination to read a 105 page *Ohio State Law
Journal* article, I think the abstract provides a good sense of the gist of
Crews' argument.

All best,
Brian

Brian Boling
Media Services Librarian
Temple University Libraries
brian.bol...@temple.edu
Schedule a meeting during my office hours
<http://paleystudy.temple.edu/appointment/8617>

On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Moshiri, Farhad <mosh...@uiwtx.edu> wrote:

> *4.2.1 Motion Media *
>
> Up to 10% or 3 minutes, whichever is less, in the aggregate of a
> copyrighted motion media work may be reproduced or otherwise incorporated
> as part of a multimedia project created under Section 2 of these
> guidelines.
>
>
>
> http://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/ccmcguid.html
>
>
>
> Farhad Moshiri, MLS
>
> Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
>
> Audiovisual  Librarian
>
> Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
>
> Middle Eastern Studies
>
> University of the Incarnate Word
>
> J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
>
> 4301 Broadway – CPO 297
>
> San Antonio, TX 78209
>
> (210) 829-3842
> --
> *From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu <
> videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> on behalf of Jessica Rosner <
> jessicapros...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:40 AM
>
> *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q
>
> No there is NO  3 minute rule. Fair Use has always been deliberately
> vague. You are supposed to use the minimum amount that will achieve your
> goal without compromising the heart of the work or the value to the rights
> holder. In this case I would say 99.9% you are fine but two potential
> issues.
> Is this going to be an event that charges admission? This does not in
> anyway rule out "fair use" but it can raise the bar. The other issue is I
> think less legal than practical, I am going to assume you have a Disney
> version in the mix? They are notoriously litigious and often just best to
> avoid the trouble. I would also be careful to credit each version you use
> material from.
>
> In general the type of thing you describe is what "fair use" was meant
> for, using portions of works to create a new work without harming the
> original works.
>
> Good luck
>
> Jessica
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Moshiri, Farhad <mosh...@uiwtx.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> As far as I understand the copyright law and fair use, you can do this
>> but you're limited to up to 3 minutes of each film and you should not
>> select the "heart of the work" in this 3 minutes limit for each film.
>>
>>
>>
>> Farhad Moshiri, MLS
>>
>> Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
>>
>> Audiovisual  Librarian
>>
>> Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
>>
>> Middle Eastern Studies
>>
>> University of the Incarnate Word
>>
>> J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
>>
>> 4301 Broadway – CPO 297
>>
>> San Antonio, TX 78209
>>
>> (210) 829-3842
>> --
>> *From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu <
>> videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> on behalf of Sarah E. McCleskey <
>> sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:07 AM
>> *To:* 'videolib@lists.berkeley.edu'
>> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q
>>
>>
>> Hi Lorraine,
>>
>>
>>
>> I would do it. Sounds like fair use to me. Also, I perceive your risk in
>> this situation as extremely low. You’re not charging admission for the
>> film, right? Not a money making venture?
>>
>>
>>
>> BTW sounds like a cool program! This summer I saw the Czech film “Alice”
>> at a big outdoor screening. Such an amazing interpretation of the tale.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sarah
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sarah E. McCleskey, M.A., M.S.L.S.
>>
>> Head of Access Services
>>
>> 112 Axinn Library
>>
>> 123 Hofstra University
>>
>> Hempstead, NY 11549
>>
>&g

Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

[Sarah E. McCleskey]

Hi Lorraine,

I would do it. Sounds like fair use to me. Also, I perceive your risk in this 
situation as extremely low. You're not charging admission for the film, right? 
Not a money making venture?

BTW sounds like a cool program! This summer I saw the Czech film "Alice" at a 
big outdoor screening. Such an amazing interpretation of the tale.

Sarah


Sarah E. McCleskey, M.A., M.S.L.S.
Head of Access Services
112 Axinn Library
123 Hofstra University
Hempstead, NY 11549
Phone 516-463-5076
Fax 516-463-4309
sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu<mailto:sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu>



From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Wochna, Lorraine
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 11:14 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

Hello all,
I need some advice here; this is a bit new to me in terms of the legality of 
use.  Here is the scenario:

We are doing a big ALICE in WONDERLAND promo gig (display, film and speaker).

The student working on the PR would like to use a scene from 5 different 
versions of ALICE IN WONDERLAND.
We would then like to put it on the web (our library page, but it would be 
accessible to all).

In the world of 'fair use' and 'remix' can we do this legally?
I don't feel qualified to give a definitive yes or no on this.
Your advice is greatly appreciated.

Best,
lorraine



lorraine wochna
African American Studies, English Lit, Performing Arts Librarian
Alden Library, 2nd floor
Ohio University
Athens OH  45701
W 740-597-1238
CHAT WITH ME:  http://libguides.library.ohiou.edu/prf.php?account_id=7943
MAKE APPT:  http://ohiou.libcal.com/appointment/2001
[small card lorraine]


VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

[Moshiri, Farhad]

4.2.1 Motion Media

Up to 10% or 3 minutes, whichever is less, in the aggregate of a copyrighted 
motion media work may be reproduced or otherwise incorporated as part of a 
multimedia project created under Section 2 of these guidelines.



http://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/ccmcguid.html


Farhad Moshiri, MLS
Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
Audiovisual  Librarian
Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
Middle Eastern Studies
University of the Incarnate Word
J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
4301 Broadway – CPO 297
San Antonio, TX 78209
(210) 829-3842

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu <videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
on behalf of Jessica Rosner <jessicapros...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:40 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

No there is NO  3 minute rule. Fair Use has always been deliberately vague. You 
are supposed to use the minimum amount that will achieve your goal without 
compromising the heart of the work or the value to the rights holder. In this 
case I would say 99.9% you are fine but two potential issues.
Is this going to be an event that charges admission? This does not in anyway 
rule out "fair use" but it can raise the bar. The other issue is I think less 
legal than practical, I am going to assume you have a Disney version in the 
mix? They are notoriously litigious and often just best to avoid the trouble. I 
would also be careful to credit each version you use material from.

In general the type of thing you describe is what "fair use" was meant for, 
using portions of works to create a new work without harming the original works.

Good luck

Jessica

On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Moshiri, Farhad 
<mosh...@uiwtx.edu<mailto:mosh...@uiwtx.edu>> wrote:

As far as I understand the copyright law and fair use, you can do this but 
you're limited to up to 3 minutes of each film and you should not select the 
"heart of the work" in this 3 minutes limit for each film.


Farhad Moshiri, MLS
Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
Audiovisual  Librarian
Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
Middle Eastern Studies
University of the Incarnate Word
J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
4301 Broadway – CPO 297
San Antonio, TX 78209
(210) 829-3842<tel:%28210%29%20829-3842>

From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
<videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>>
 on behalf of Sarah E. McCleskey 
<sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu<mailto:sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu>>
Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:07 AM
To: 'videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>'
Subject: Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

Hi Lorraine,

I would do it. Sounds like fair use to me. Also, I perceive your risk in this 
situation as extremely low. You’re not charging admission for the film, right? 
Not a money making venture?

BTW sounds like a cool program! This summer I saw the Czech film “Alice” at a 
big outdoor screening. Such an amazing interpretation of the tale.

Sarah


Sarah E. McCleskey, M.A., M.S.L.S.
Head of Access Services
112 Axinn Library
123 Hofstra University
Hempstead, NY 11549
Phone 516-463-5076
Fax 516-463-4309
sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu<mailto:sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu>



From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>]
 On Behalf Of Wochna, Lorraine
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 11:14 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

Hello all,
I need some advice here; this is a bit new to me in terms of the legality of 
use.  Here is the scenario:

We are doing a big ALICE in WONDERLAND promo gig (display, film and speaker).

The student working on the PR would like to use a scene from 5 different 
versions of ALICE IN WONDERLAND.
We would then like to put it on the web (our library page, but it would be 
accessible to all).

In the world of ‘fair use’ and ‘remix’ can we do this legally?
I don’t feel qualified to give a definitive yes or no on this.
Your advice is greatly appreciated.

Best,
lorraine



lorraine wochna
African American Studies, English Lit, Performing Arts Librarian
Alden Library, 2nd floor
Ohio University
Athens OH  45701
W 740-597-1238
CHAT WITH ME:  http://libguides.library.ohiou.edu/prf.php?account_id=7943
MAKE APPT:  http://ohiou.libcal.com/appointment/2001
[small card lorraine]





This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential or contain 
privileged information and are intended solely for the use of the individual or 
entity to which they are addressed. If you are not th

Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

[Moshiri, Farhad]

As far as I understand the copyright law and fair use, you can do this but 
you're limited to up to 3 minutes of each film and you should not select the 
"heart of the work" in this 3 minutes limit for each film.


Farhad Moshiri, MLS
Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
Audiovisual  Librarian
Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
Middle Eastern Studies
University of the Incarnate Word
J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
4301 Broadway - CPO 297
San Antonio, TX 78209
(210) 829-3842

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu <videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
on behalf of Sarah E. McCleskey <sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:07 AM
To: 'videolib@lists.berkeley.edu'
Subject: Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

Hi Lorraine,

I would do it. Sounds like fair use to me. Also, I perceive your risk in this 
situation as extremely low. You're not charging admission for the film, right? 
Not a money making venture?

BTW sounds like a cool program! This summer I saw the Czech film "Alice" at a 
big outdoor screening. Such an amazing interpretation of the tale.

Sarah


Sarah E. McCleskey, M.A., M.S.L.S.
Head of Access Services
112 Axinn Library
123 Hofstra University
Hempstead, NY 11549
Phone 516-463-5076
Fax 516-463-4309
sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu<mailto:sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu>



From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Wochna, Lorraine
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 11:14 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

Hello all,
I need some advice here; this is a bit new to me in terms of the legality of 
use.  Here is the scenario:

We are doing a big ALICE in WONDERLAND promo gig (display, film and speaker).

The student working on the PR would like to use a scene from 5 different 
versions of ALICE IN WONDERLAND.
We would then like to put it on the web (our library page, but it would be 
accessible to all).

In the world of 'fair use' and 'remix' can we do this legally?
I don't feel qualified to give a definitive yes or no on this.
Your advice is greatly appreciated.

Best,
lorraine



lorraine wochna
African American Studies, English Lit, Performing Arts Librarian
Alden Library, 2nd floor
Ohio University
Athens OH  45701
W 740-597-1238
CHAT WITH ME:  http://libguides.library.ohiou.edu/prf.php?account_id=7943
MAKE APPT:  http://ohiou.libcal.com/appointment/2001
[small card lorraine]





This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential or contain 
privileged information and are intended solely for the use of the individual or 
entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, 
dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this email and any 
attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, 
please immediately delete the email and any attachments from your system and 
notify the sender. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited. Thank you for 
your compliance.
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

[Jessica Rosner]

No there is NO  3 minute rule. Fair Use has always been deliberately vague.
You are supposed to use the minimum amount that will achieve your goal
without compromising the heart of the work or the value to the rights
holder. In this case I would say 99.9% you are fine but two potential
issues.
Is this going to be an event that charges admission? This does not in
anyway rule out "fair use" but it can raise the bar. The other issue is I
think less legal than practical, I am going to assume you have a Disney
version in the mix? They are notoriously litigious and often just best to
avoid the trouble. I would also be careful to credit each version you use
material from.

In general the type of thing you describe is what "fair use" was meant for,
using portions of works to create a new work without harming the original
works.

Good luck

Jessica

On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Moshiri, Farhad <mosh...@uiwtx.edu> wrote:

> As far as I understand the copyright law and fair use, you can do this but
> you're limited to up to 3 minutes of each film and you should not
> select the "heart of the work" in this 3 minutes limit for each film.
>
>
>
> Farhad Moshiri, MLS
>
> Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
>
> Audiovisual  Librarian
>
> Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
>
> Middle Eastern Studies
>
> University of the Incarnate Word
>
> J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
>
> 4301 Broadway – CPO 297
>
> San Antonio, TX 78209
>
> (210) 829-3842
> --
> *From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu <
> videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> on behalf of Sarah E. McCleskey <
> sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:07 AM
> *To:* 'videolib@lists.berkeley.edu'
> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q
>
>
> Hi Lorraine,
>
>
>
> I would do it. Sounds like fair use to me. Also, I perceive your risk in
> this situation as extremely low. You’re not charging admission for the
> film, right? Not a money making venture?
>
>
>
> BTW sounds like a cool program! This summer I saw the Czech film “Alice”
> at a big outdoor screening. Such an amazing interpretation of the tale.
>
>
>
> Sarah
>
>
>
>
>
> Sarah E. McCleskey, M.A., M.S.L.S.
>
> Head of Access Services
>
> 112 Axinn Library
>
> 123 Hofstra University
>
> Hempstead, NY 11549
>
> Phone 516-463-5076
>
> Fax 516-463-4309
>
> sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:
> videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] *On Behalf Of *Wochna, Lorraine
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 01, 2015 11:14 AM
> *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> *Subject:* [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q
>
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> I need some advice here; this is a bit new to me in terms of the legality
> of use.  Here is the scenario:
>
>
>
> We are doing a big ALICE in WONDERLAND promo gig (display, film and
> speaker).
>
>
>
> The student working on the PR would like to use a scene from 5 different
> versions of ALICE IN WONDERLAND.
>
> We would then like to put it on the web (our library page, but it would be
> accessible to all).
>
>
>
> In the world of ‘fair use’ and ‘remix’ can we do this legally?
>
> I don’t feel qualified to give a definitive yes or no on this.
>
> Your advice is greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> lorraine
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> lorraine wochna
>
> African American Studies, English Lit, Performing Arts Librarian
>
> Alden Library, 2nd floor
>
> Ohio University
>
> Athens OH  45701
>
> W 740-597-1238
>
> CHAT WITH ME:  http://libguides.library.ohiou.edu/prf.php?account_id=7943
>
> MAKE APPT:  http://ohiou.libcal.com/appointment/2001
>
> [image: small card lorraine]
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential or
> contain privileged information and are intended solely for the use of the
> individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the
> intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this email in
> error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of
> this email and any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received
> this email in error, please immediately delete the email and any
> attachments from your system and notify the sender. Any other use of this
> e-mail is prohibited. Thank you for your compliance.
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, 

Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

[Jessica Rosner]

Much as I wish that WAS the law it is not. There is no percentage
whatsoever in the actual copyright law. The recent GSU case used 10% as an
absolute amount and this was in fact opposed by both sides. There are
instances were 10% can be too much ( in the GSU case several works were
deemed to use too much because it was at the heart of the work even if they
used LESS than 10% a point ironically almost never mentioned by those
claiming it could somehow justify streaming an ENTIRE work) by the same
token there could be a case where one could use more than 10% ( though I
have not seen it I get the impression that this is the case with some clips
used in LA PLAYS ITSELF).

This is kind of why "fair use" drives everyone nuts.

On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Moshiri, Farhad <mosh...@uiwtx.edu> wrote:

> *4.2.1 Motion Media *
>
> Up to 10% or 3 minutes, whichever is less, in the aggregate of a
> copyrighted motion media work may be reproduced or otherwise incorporated
> as part of a multimedia project created under Section 2 of these
> guidelines.
>
>
>
> http://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/ccmcguid.html
>
>
>
> Farhad Moshiri, MLS
>
> Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
>
> Audiovisual  Librarian
>
> Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
>
> Middle Eastern Studies
>
> University of the Incarnate Word
>
> J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
>
> 4301 Broadway – CPO 297
>
> San Antonio, TX 78209
>
> (210) 829-3842
> --
> *From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu <
> videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> on behalf of Jessica Rosner <
> jessicapros...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:40 AM
>
> *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q
>
> No there is NO  3 minute rule. Fair Use has always been deliberately
> vague. You are supposed to use the minimum amount that will achieve your
> goal without compromising the heart of the work or the value to the rights
> holder. In this case I would say 99.9% you are fine but two potential
> issues.
> Is this going to be an event that charges admission? This does not in
> anyway rule out "fair use" but it can raise the bar. The other issue is I
> think less legal than practical, I am going to assume you have a Disney
> version in the mix? They are notoriously litigious and often just best to
> avoid the trouble. I would also be careful to credit each version you use
> material from.
>
> In general the type of thing you describe is what "fair use" was meant
> for, using portions of works to create a new work without harming the
> original works.
>
> Good luck
>
> Jessica
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Moshiri, Farhad <mosh...@uiwtx.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> As far as I understand the copyright law and fair use, you can do this
>> but you're limited to up to 3 minutes of each film and you should not
>> select the "heart of the work" in this 3 minutes limit for each film.
>>
>>
>>
>> Farhad Moshiri, MLS
>>
>> Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
>>
>> Audiovisual  Librarian
>>
>> Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
>>
>> Middle Eastern Studies
>>
>> University of the Incarnate Word
>>
>> J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
>>
>> 4301 Broadway – CPO 297
>>
>> San Antonio, TX 78209
>>
>> (210) 829-3842
>> --
>> *From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu <
>> videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> on behalf of Sarah E. McCleskey <
>> sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:07 AM
>> *To:* 'videolib@lists.berkeley.edu'
>> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q
>>
>>
>> Hi Lorraine,
>>
>>
>>
>> I would do it. Sounds like fair use to me. Also, I perceive your risk in
>> this situation as extremely low. You’re not charging admission for the
>> film, right? Not a money making venture?
>>
>>
>>
>> BTW sounds like a cool program! This summer I saw the Czech film “Alice”
>> at a big outdoor screening. Such an amazing interpretation of the tale.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sarah
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sarah E. McCleskey, M.A., M.S.L.S.
>>
>> Head of Access Services
>>
>> 112 Axinn Library
>>
>> 123 Hofstra University
>>
>> Hempstead, NY 11549
>>
>> Phone 516-463-5076
>>
>> Fax 516-463-4309
>>
>> sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>&g

Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

[Moshiri, Farhad]

Great discussion. Thanks everyone. As Jessica said, fair use is vague. That’s 
why we librarians, as a practical measure, follow “guidelines”. I would rather 
rely on the mostly accepted guidelines than just tell my faculty you can do 
whatever you want to do.

Farhad

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Brian W Boling
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 12:14 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

Hi Farhad,
Kenneth Crews at Columbia has written a fairly lengthy article on how Fair Use 
guidelines (including the CONFU guidelines to which the link you provided 
refer) do not have the force of law.  Furthermore, following such guidelines 
tends to limit the application of Fair Use as described within the law, while 
not actually guaranteeing a "safe harbor".  You can find the full article here:
The Law of Fair Use and the Illusion of Fair-Use 
Guidelines<http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1588292>
For those without the inclination to read a 105 page Ohio State Law Journal 
article, I think the abstract provides a good sense of the gist of Crews' 
argument.
All best,
Brian

Brian Boling
Media Services Librarian
Temple University Libraries
brian.bol...@temple.edu<mailto:brian.bol...@temple.edu>
Schedule a meeting during my office 
hours<http://paleystudy.temple.edu/appointment/8617>

On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Moshiri, Farhad 
<mosh...@uiwtx.edu<mailto:mosh...@uiwtx.edu>> wrote:

4.2.1 Motion Media

Up to 10% or 3 minutes, whichever is less, in the aggregate of a copyrighted 
motion media work may be reproduced or otherwise incorporated as part of a 
multimedia project created under Section 2 of these guidelines.



http://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/ccmcguid.html


Farhad Moshiri, MLS
Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
Audiovisual  Librarian
Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
Middle Eastern Studies
University of the Incarnate Word
J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
4301 Broadway – CPO 297
San Antonio, TX 78209
(210) 829-3842<tel:%28210%29%20829-3842>

From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
<videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>>
 on behalf of Jessica Rosner 
<jessicapros...@gmail.com<mailto:jessicapros...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:40 AM

To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

No there is NO  3 minute rule. Fair Use has always been deliberately vague. You 
are supposed to use the minimum amount that will achieve your goal without 
compromising the heart of the work or the value to the rights holder. In this 
case I would say 99.9% you are fine but two potential issues.
Is this going to be an event that charges admission? This does not in anyway 
rule out "fair use" but it can raise the bar. The other issue is I think less 
legal than practical, I am going to assume you have a Disney version in the 
mix? They are notoriously litigious and often just best to avoid the trouble. I 
would also be careful to credit each version you use material from.
In general the type of thing you describe is what "fair use" was meant for, 
using portions of works to create a new work without harming the original works.
Good luck
Jessica

On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Moshiri, Farhad 
<mosh...@uiwtx.edu<mailto:mosh...@uiwtx.edu>> wrote:

As far as I understand the copyright law and fair use, you can do this but 
you're limited to up to 3 minutes of each film and you should not select the 
"heart of the work" in this 3 minutes limit for each film.


Farhad Moshiri, MLS
Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
Audiovisual  Librarian
Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
Middle Eastern Studies
University of the Incarnate Word
J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
4301 Broadway – CPO 297
San Antonio, TX 78209
(210) 829-3842<tel:%28210%29%20829-3842>

From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
<videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>>
 on behalf of Sarah E. McCleskey 
<sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu<mailto:sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu>>
Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:07 AM
To: 'videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>'
Subject: Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

Hi Lorraine,

I would do it. Sounds like fair use to me. Also, I perceive your risk in this 
situation as extremely low. You’re not charging admission for the film, right? 
Not a money making venture?

BTW sounds like a cool program! This summer I saw the Czech film “Alice” at a 
big outdoor screening. Such an amazing inter

Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

[Sarah E. McCleskey]

Thanks for that link, Brian. I feel pretty sure I read this article sometime in 
the distant past but it’s really great to take another look. Interesting that 
even though it was published in 2001, and so many things have changed, it’s 
still absolutely relevant for us!

Sarah

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Brian W Boling
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 1:14 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

Hi Farhad,
Kenneth Crews at Columbia has written a fairly lengthy article on how Fair Use 
guidelines (including the CONFU guidelines to which the link you provided 
refer) do not have the force of law.  Furthermore, following such guidelines 
tends to limit the application of Fair Use as described within the law, while 
not actually guaranteeing a "safe harbor".  You can find the full article here:
The Law of Fair Use and the Illusion of Fair-Use 
Guidelines<http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1588292>
For those without the inclination to read a 105 page Ohio State Law Journal 
article, I think the abstract provides a good sense of the gist of Crews' 
argument.
All best,
Brian

Brian Boling
Media Services Librarian
Temple University Libraries
brian.bol...@temple.edu<mailto:brian.bol...@temple.edu>
Schedule a meeting during my office 
hours<http://paleystudy.temple.edu/appointment/8617>

On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Moshiri, Farhad 
<mosh...@uiwtx.edu<mailto:mosh...@uiwtx.edu>> wrote:

4.2.1 Motion Media

Up to 10% or 3 minutes, whichever is less, in the aggregate of a copyrighted 
motion media work may be reproduced or otherwise incorporated as part of a 
multimedia project created under Section 2 of these guidelines.



http://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/ccmcguid.html


Farhad Moshiri, MLS
Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
Audiovisual  Librarian
Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
Middle Eastern Studies
University of the Incarnate Word
J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
4301 Broadway – CPO 297
San Antonio, TX 78209
(210) 829-3842<tel:%28210%29%20829-3842>

From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
<videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>>
 on behalf of Jessica Rosner 
<jessicapros...@gmail.com<mailto:jessicapros...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:40 AM

To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

No there is NO  3 minute rule. Fair Use has always been deliberately vague. You 
are supposed to use the minimum amount that will achieve your goal without 
compromising the heart of the work or the value to the rights holder. In this 
case I would say 99.9% you are fine but two potential issues.
Is this going to be an event that charges admission? This does not in anyway 
rule out "fair use" but it can raise the bar. The other issue is I think less 
legal than practical, I am going to assume you have a Disney version in the 
mix? They are notoriously litigious and often just best to avoid the trouble. I 
would also be careful to credit each version you use material from.
In general the type of thing you describe is what "fair use" was meant for, 
using portions of works to create a new work without harming the original works.
Good luck
Jessica

On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Moshiri, Farhad 
<mosh...@uiwtx.edu<mailto:mosh...@uiwtx.edu>> wrote:

As far as I understand the copyright law and fair use, you can do this but 
you're limited to up to 3 minutes of each film and you should not select the 
"heart of the work" in this 3 minutes limit for each film.


Farhad Moshiri, MLS
Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
Audiovisual  Librarian
Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
Middle Eastern Studies
University of the Incarnate Word
J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
4301 Broadway – CPO 297
San Antonio, TX 78209
(210) 829-3842<tel:%28210%29%20829-3842>

From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
<videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>>
 on behalf of Sarah E. McCleskey 
<sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu<mailto:sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu>>
Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:07 AM
To: 'videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>'
Subject: Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

Hi Lorraine,

I would do it. Sounds like fair use to me. Also, I perceive your risk in this 
situation as extremely low. You’re not charging admission for the film, right? 
Not a money making venture?

BTW sounds like a cool program! This summer I saw the Czech film “Alice” at a 
big outdoor screening. Such an amaz

Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

[Shoaf,Judith P]

Jessica is right; there are only guidelines, not bright lines. I think that 
makes sense, from a more userly point of view. Even in the GSU case the 10% was 
not proposed by the judge as an absolute, just a number she would balance with 
the other factors as being probably safe. But as Jessica says if that 10% is 
the heart of the work, it requires permission.

It should not be hard  to avoid “the heart of the work” in the Alice mashup. 
What is the heart of that book? I suppose that to a modern sensibility it might 
be the conversation with the caterpillar, but that probably varies from one 
film to another.

Judy

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jessica Rosner
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 1:10 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

Much as I wish that WAS the law it is not. There is no percentage whatsoever in 
the actual copyright law. The recent GSU case used 10% as an absolute amount 
and this was in fact opposed by both sides. There are instances were 10% can be 
too much ( in the GSU case several works were deemed to use too much because it 
was at the heart of the work even if they used LESS than 10% a point ironically 
almost never mentioned by those claiming it could somehow justify streaming an 
ENTIRE work) by the same token there could be a case where one could use more 
than 10% ( though I have not seen it I get the impression that this is the case 
with some clips used in LA PLAYS ITSELF).
This is kind of why "fair use" drives everyone nuts.

On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Moshiri, Farhad 
<mosh...@uiwtx.edu<mailto:mosh...@uiwtx.edu>> wrote:

4.2.1 Motion Media

Up to 10% or 3 minutes, whichever is less, in the aggregate of a copyrighted 
motion media work may be reproduced or otherwise incorporated as part of a 
multimedia project created under Section 2 of these guidelines.



http://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/ccmcguid.html


Farhad Moshiri, MLS
Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
Audiovisual  Librarian
Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
Middle Eastern Studies
University of the Incarnate Word
J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
4301 Broadway – CPO 297
San Antonio, TX 78209
(210) 829-3842<tel:%28210%29%20829-3842>

From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
<videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>>
 on behalf of Jessica Rosner 
<jessicapros...@gmail.com<mailto:jessicapros...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:40 AM

To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

No there is NO  3 minute rule. Fair Use has always been deliberately vague. You 
are supposed to use the minimum amount that will achieve your goal without 
compromising the heart of the work or the value to the rights holder. In this 
case I would say 99.9% you are fine but two potential issues.
Is this going to be an event that charges admission? This does not in anyway 
rule out "fair use" but it can raise the bar. The other issue is I think less 
legal than practical, I am going to assume you have a Disney version in the 
mix? They are notoriously litigious and often just best to avoid the trouble. I 
would also be careful to credit each version you use material from.
In general the type of thing you describe is what "fair use" was meant for, 
using portions of works to create a new work without harming the original works.
Good luck
Jessica

On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Moshiri, Farhad 
<mosh...@uiwtx.edu<mailto:mosh...@uiwtx.edu>> wrote:

As far as I understand the copyright law and fair use, you can do this but 
you're limited to up to 3 minutes of each film and you should not select the 
"heart of the work" in this 3 minutes limit for each film.


Farhad Moshiri, MLS
Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
Audiovisual  Librarian
Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
Middle Eastern Studies
University of the Incarnate Word
J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
4301 Broadway – CPO 297
San Antonio, TX 78209
(210) 829-3842<tel:%28210%29%20829-3842>

From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
<videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>>
 on behalf of Sarah E. McCleskey 
<sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu<mailto:sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu>>
Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:07 AM
To: 'videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>'
Subject: Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

Hi Lorraine,

I would do it. Sounds like fair use to me. Also, I perceive your risk in this 
situation as extremely low. You’re not charging admission for the film

Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

[Dennis Doros]

Though, I would not leave Disney out of it just because you think they will
sue:

I'm sure you all know Eric Faden's film:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJn_jC4FNDo

and Jonathan McIntosh's
http://www.rebelliouspixels.com/2010/right-wing-radio-duck-donald-discovers-glenn-beck

both use Disney clips and they are both mashups/mixes. I don't know
Disney's legal
department, but I do know they are not the big, bad corporation of
yesteryear. Have their been any cases with them lately against educations?
They seem to be the bogeymen of the copyright world, but there's a lot
worse.

And besides, fair use is fair use. HOWEVER, I can't say your project is
fair use. That's something that you all have to decide based on the
guidelines.

Best regards,
Dennis Doros
Milestone Film & Video
PO Box 128 / Harrington Park, NJ 07640
Phone: 201-767-3117 / Fax: 201-767-3035 / Email: milefi...@gmail.com

Visit our main website!  www.milestonefilms.com
Visit our new websites!  www.mspresents.com, www.portraitofjason.com,
www.shirleyclarkefilms.com,
To see or download our 2014 Video Catalog, click here

!


Support "Milestone Film" on Facebook
 and Twitter
!
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

[Wochna, Lorraine]

Thank you everyone,
Excellent discussion and very helpful.
Just an FYI, we are not charging money for the actual event.
This is just a little PR to add to our web content promoting Alice and 
Wonderland and anniversary of book.
As usual,
University of Videolib.
Another lesson learned.

Best,
lorraine


From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jessica Rosner
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 2:10 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

not that it really matters here but pretty sure the judge in the GSU did 
propose 10% as some absolute max which had the amusing result of upsetting both 
sides.

On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Shoaf,Judith P 
<jsh...@ufl.edu<mailto:jsh...@ufl.edu>> wrote:
Jessica is right; there are only guidelines, not bright lines. I think that 
makes sense, from a more userly point of view. Even in the GSU case the 10% was 
not proposed by the judge as an absolute, just a number she would balance with 
the other factors as being probably safe. But as Jessica says if that 10% is 
the heart of the work, it requires permission.

It should not be hard  to avoid “the heart of the work” in the Alice mashup. 
What is the heart of that book? I suppose that to a modern sensibility it might 
be the conversation with the caterpillar, but that probably varies from one 
film to another.

Judy

From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>]
 On Behalf Of Jessica Rosner
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 1:10 PM

To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

Much as I wish that WAS the law it is not. There is no percentage whatsoever in 
the actual copyright law. The recent GSU case used 10% as an absolute amount 
and this was in fact opposed by both sides. There are instances were 10% can be 
too much ( in the GSU case several works were deemed to use too much because it 
was at the heart of the work even if they used LESS than 10% a point ironically 
almost never mentioned by those claiming it could somehow justify streaming an 
ENTIRE work) by the same token there could be a case where one could use more 
than 10% ( though I have not seen it I get the impression that this is the case 
with some clips used in LA PLAYS ITSELF).
This is kind of why "fair use" drives everyone nuts.

On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Moshiri, Farhad 
<mosh...@uiwtx.edu<mailto:mosh...@uiwtx.edu>> wrote:

4.2.1 Motion Media

Up to 10% or 3 minutes, whichever is less, in the aggregate of a copyrighted 
motion media work may be reproduced or otherwise incorporated as part of a 
multimedia project created under Section 2 of these guidelines.



http://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/ccmcguid.html


Farhad Moshiri, MLS
Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
Audiovisual  Librarian
Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
Middle Eastern Studies
University of the Incarnate Word
J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
4301 Broadway – CPO 297
San Antonio, TX 78209
(210) 829-3842<tel:%28210%29%20829-3842>

From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
<videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>>
 on behalf of Jessica Rosner 
<jessicapros...@gmail.com<mailto:jessicapros...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:40 AM

To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

No there is NO  3 minute rule. Fair Use has always been deliberately vague. You 
are supposed to use the minimum amount that will achieve your goal without 
compromising the heart of the work or the value to the rights holder. In this 
case I would say 99.9% you are fine but two potential issues.
Is this going to be an event that charges admission? This does not in anyway 
rule out "fair use" but it can raise the bar. The other issue is I think less 
legal than practical, I am going to assume you have a Disney version in the 
mix? They are notoriously litigious and often just best to avoid the trouble. I 
would also be careful to credit each version you use material from.
In general the type of thing you describe is what "fair use" was meant for, 
using portions of works to create a new work without harming the original works.
Good luck
Jessica

On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Moshiri, Farhad 
<mosh...@uiwtx.edu<mailto:mosh...@uiwtx.edu>> wrote:

As far as I understand the copyright law and fair use, you can do this but 
you're limited to up to 3 minutes of each film and you should not select the 
"heart of the work" in this 3 minutes limit for each film.


Farhad Moshiri, MLS
Pos

Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

[Shoaf,Judith P]

Jessica noted:

"not that it really matters here but pretty sure the judge in the GSU did 
propose 10% as some absolute max which had the amusing result of upsetting both 
sides."

What she said was that the 10%/1 chapter of a book with more than 10 chapters 
is a "decidedly small" amount, not a maximum:


"Excerpts which fall within these limits are decidedly small, and allowable as 
such under factor three."



At one point she noted

"the Court finds that copying two full chapters out of an eight chapter book, 
exceeding 20% of the protected material, is not a decidedly small amount. 
Indeed, it is a large amount."



--though not "decidely large!!!" She also stressed that the 1976 Classroom 
Guidelines do not give a maximum fair amount:



"the purpose of the Guidelines was to state the minimum and not the maximum 
standards of educational fair use."



She came back several times to the idea that guidelines give a minimum, 
completely safe amount, not a maximum fair amount.



Judy
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] mashup/copyright Q

[Jessica Rosner]

Well  that is not what the appeals court said when they admonished her for
setting a 10% or one chapter "rule" . Since that part of the decision was
actually and specifically overturned and sent back it probably is not worth
arguing over especially since both sides objected ( for different reasons)
but the Appeals court was very clear that it considered her ruling to
contain an explicit 10% one chapter rule which they rejected.

Pretty much everyone on every side agrees there is no magic percentage or
amount that constitutes "fair use" which is what drives librarians ( and
rights holders) crazy



On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Shoaf,Judith P  wrote:

> Jessica noted:
> "not that it really matters here but pretty sure the judge in the GSU did
> propose 10% as some absolute max which had the amusing result of upsetting
> both sides."
>
> What she said was that the *10%/1 chapter of a book with more than 10
> chapters* is a "decidedly small" amount, not a maximum:
>
>
> "Excerpts which fall within these limits are decidedly small, and
> allowable as such under factor three."
>
>
>
> At one point she noted
>
> "the Court finds that copying two full chapters out of an eight chapter
> book, exceeding 20% of the protected material, is not a decidedly small
> amount. Indeed, it is a large amount."
>
>
>
> --though not "decidely large!!!" She also stressed that the 1976 Classroom
> Guidelines do not give a maximum fair amount:
>
>
>
> "the purpose of the Guidelines was to state the minimum and not the
> maximum standards of educational fair use."
>
>
>
> She came back several times to the idea that guidelines give a minimum,
> completely safe amount, not a maximum fair amount.
>
>
>
> Judy
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>
>
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.