Re: [Videolib] Friday fair use question
This prof primarily uses materials from his personal collection, not so much from ours. He's been teaching this class for at least 10-15 years, and streaming video collections have been available on our campus for only 2-3 years. We have in our hard copy collection a few docs made by a couple of this prof's students. Just about all of the programs are old photos and film footage from various sources with voiceover, all credited. I worked with one of these students after he graduated to produce a Tennessee history video for our collection, and he was well aware of the issues involved in licensing and requesting permission for copyrighted material. In fact, one of the images he most wanted to use was too expensive and came with a very limited time use, so he decided to pursue something else. This prof knows the issues involved in using copyrighted material because he asked me about using clips from the streaming collection, hence my question here. Our Media Library does not have production equipment available for undergraduate students who also must use our video collection in-house. Graduate students may check out our videos and have a higher-tech computer lab, which is accessed through us, available to them, so it would be possible for them to extract clips from some DVDs, but not VHS. We work closely with the television studio, across the hall, to be sure any excerpting or duplication requested of them by faculty passes the fair use/copyright test - through me. Unless a faculty member circumvents our safeguards by checking out a video and handing it to a student to do with what they want, we assist faculty and students (undergrads through their faculty) with assigned projects, all the while attempting, as best we can, not to put any of us in the cross hairs of a copyright holder's wrath. And so far, so good. Gail On 10/21/2011 11:29 PM, Jessica Rosner wrote: You know I am not much of a techie, but it appears you are trying to allow a student to download or copy a film from a stream. Not sure that is breaking encryption, but it would clearly violate most contracts and frankly freak the hell out of distributors who have set up their own streaming systems. Though I only work with films where the school buys a copy and then gets to stream it on their own system, I can sympathize with rights holders being upset if something they are specifically set up not to allow were somehow done through technology. However it seems to me that the student would he be so much better off creating a film from what I imagine is an excellent and far bigger selection in the library collection. At the risk of being attacked by distributors who stream, I think the vast majority of docs including many of the best ones are not up for streaming, but widely available on VHS DVD from which the student could obtain clips. Just out of curiosity did the Prof teach the course using ONLY titles that were licensed for streaming? On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 6:57 PM, Gail Fedak gfe...@mtsu.edu mailto:gfe...@mtsu.edu wrote: Jessica, Gary, The prof who posed the question teaches a documentary filmmaking class in the history department. Although the class is not taught in the College of Mass Communication, its purpose is to teach students how to create documentaries, the final class project being to create a short one. A student enrolling in the class can petition the director of our Film Studies Interdisciplinary Minor to have it approved for completion of the minor credits. I consider these students among those who were granted permission to break encryption for fair use purposes. The collection in question is licensed/legally acquired, but I had not thought through the copyright/contract issue far enough to remember that contracts trump fair use. Unfortunately, I do not have the budget to acquire hard copies of everything in the streamed collections. However, I will suggest that this prof's students check our hard copy collection for the titles they need. My next step will be to our legal guys for a considered opinion. Will probably end up contacting the provider as well. Thanks again, Gail On 10/21/2011 4:25 PM, Jessica Rosner wrote: I agree generally but you would really need to say what is involved. There are in fact significant restrictions in most streaming licenses. The most basic is that you can not download or copy the material and as that is specific and contractual I think it would indeed hold up in court and would supersede fair use. What is confusing me is what the students want to do? If they want to create some new work using clips I think that would likely be illegal IF they are using material that was licensed for streaming and forbid any copying. It would far better for them to simply use a physical copy to obtain any clips. Also depending on what
Re: [Videolib] Friday fair use question
Many thanks! Gail On 10/21/2011 3:57 PM, ghand...@library.berkeley.edu wrote: Hey Gail I'd say yeah, definitely, unless FU is trumped by specific contractual language which forbids certain uses (I've haven't seen any such language so far--at least in the licenses we've signed). Even if the contract DID somehow short-circuit fair uses (i.e. clips for use in course-related projects), my guess is that it wouldn't stand up in court. Gary Handman Is an institution's licensed video streaming content covered by fair use for said institution's students who want to use guideline compliant portions of that content for fair use compliant purposes? I want to say yes, but hesitate to do so without input from the collective wisdom. I don't remember prior discussion concerning this permutation of fair use. Thanks in advance, Gail Gail B. Fedak Director, Media Resources Middle Tennessee State University Murfreesboro, TN37132 Phone: 615-898-2899 Fax: 615-898-2530 Email: gfe...@mtsu.edumailto:gfe...@mtsu.edu Web: www.mtsu.edu/~imrhttp://www.mtsu.edu/%7Eimr Education is a progressive study of your own ignorance. -- Will Durant VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. Gary Handman Director Media Resources Center Moffitt Library UC Berkeley 510-643-8566 ghand...@library.berkeley.edu http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself. --Francois Truffaut VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. -- Gail B. Fedak Director, Media Resources Middle Tennessee State University Murfreesboro, TN37132 Phone: 615-898-2899 Fax: 615-898-2530 Email: gfe...@mtsu.edu mailto:gfe...@mtsu.edu Web: www.mtsu.edu/~imr http://www.mtsu.edu/%7Eimr Education is a progressive study of your own ignorance. -- Will Durant VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Re: [Videolib] Friday fair use question
I agree generally but you would really need to say what is involved. There are in fact significant restrictions in most streaming licenses. The most basic is that you can not download or copy the material and as that is specific and contractual I think it would indeed hold up in court and would supersede fair use. What is confusing me is what the students want to do? If they want to create some new work using clips I think that would likely be illegal IF they are using material that was licensed for streaming and forbid any copying. It would far better for them to simply use a physical copy to obtain any clips. Also depending on what they are trying to do , one could ask the rights holder for permission. Having already licensed the material for streaming there is a good chance they would grant permission to use a clip from it for a student project but again if the license specifically forbid copying you would need to ask. On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 4:57 PM, ghand...@library.berkeley.edu wrote: Hey Gail I'd say yeah, definitely, unless FU is trumped by specific contractual language which forbids certain uses (I've haven't seen any such language so far--at least in the licenses we've signed). Even if the contract DID somehow short-circuit fair uses (i.e. clips for use in course-related projects), my guess is that it wouldn't stand up in court. Gary Handman Is an institution's licensed video streaming content covered by fair use for said institution's students who want to use guideline compliant portions of that content for fair use compliant purposes? I want to say yes, but hesitate to do so without input from the collective wisdom. I don't remember prior discussion concerning this permutation of fair use. Thanks in advance, Gail Gail B. Fedak Director, Media Resources Middle Tennessee State University Murfreesboro, TN37132 Phone: 615-898-2899 Fax: 615-898-2530 Email: gfe...@mtsu.edu mailto:gfe...@mtsu.edu Web: www.mtsu.edu/~imr http://www.mtsu.edu/%7Eimr Education is a progressive study of your own ignorance. -- Will Durant VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. Gary Handman Director Media Resources Center Moffitt Library UC Berkeley 510-643-8566 ghand...@library.berkeley.edu http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself. --Francois Truffaut VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. -- Jessica Rosner Media Consultant 224-545-3897 (cell) 212-627-1785 (land line) jessicapros...@gmail.com VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Re: [Videolib] Friday fair use question
Contrary to popular belief Gary we agree on a lot. On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 5:44 PM, ghand...@library.berkeley.edu wrote: Well, yeah...We're talking about streamed content, and I think the common contractual/license stipulation against downloading may shoot the show as far as the use of clips go. gary Does this mean we actually DO agree on something, J? I agree generally but you would really need to say what is involved. There are in fact significant restrictions in most streaming licenses. The most basic is that you can not download or copy the material and as that is specific and contractual I think it would indeed hold up in court and would supersede fair use. What is confusing me is what the students want to do? If they want to create some new work using clips I think that would likely be illegal IF they are using material that was licensed for streaming and forbid any copying. It would far better for them to simply use a physical copy to obtain any clips. Also depending on what they are trying to do , one could ask the rights holder for permission. Having already licensed the material for streaming there is a good chance they would grant permission to use a clip from it for a student project but again if the license specifically forbid copying you would need to ask. On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 4:57 PM, ghand...@library.berkeley.edu wrote: Hey Gail I'd say yeah, definitely, unless FU is trumped by specific contractual language which forbids certain uses (I've haven't seen any such language so far--at least in the licenses we've signed). Even if the contract DID somehow short-circuit fair uses (i.e. clips for use in course-related projects), my guess is that it wouldn't stand up in court. Gary Handman Is an institution's licensed video streaming content covered by fair use for said institution's students who want to use guideline compliant portions of that content for fair use compliant purposes? I want to say yes, but hesitate to do so without input from the collective wisdom. I don't remember prior discussion concerning this permutation of fair use. Thanks in advance, Gail Gail B. Fedak Director, Media Resources Middle Tennessee State University Murfreesboro, TN37132 Phone: 615-898-2899 Fax: 615-898-2530 Email: gfe...@mtsu.edu mailto:gfe...@mtsu.edu Web: www.mtsu.edu/~imr http://www.mtsu.edu/%7Eimr Education is a progressive study of your own ignorance. -- Will Durant VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. Gary Handman Director Media Resources Center Moffitt Library UC Berkeley 510-643-8566 ghand...@library.berkeley.edu http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself. --Francois Truffaut VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. -- Jessica Rosner Media Consultant 224-545-3897 (cell) 212-627-1785 (land line) jessicapros...@gmail.com VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. Gary Handman Director Media Resources Center Moffitt Library UC Berkeley 510-643-8566 ghand...@library.berkeley.edu http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself. --Francois Truffaut VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video
Re: [Videolib] Friday fair use question
Jessica, Gary, The prof who posed the question teaches a documentary filmmaking class in the history department. Although the class is not taught in the College of Mass Communication, its purpose is to teach students how to create documentaries, the final class project being to create a short one. A student enrolling in the class can petition the director of our Film Studies Interdisciplinary Minor to have it approved for completion of the minor credits. I consider these students among those who were granted permission to break encryption for fair use purposes. The collection in question is licensed/legally acquired, but I had not thought through the copyright/contract issue far enough to remember that contracts trump fair use. Unfortunately, I do not have the budget to acquire hard copies of everything in the streamed collections. However, I will suggest that this prof's students check our hard copy collection for the titles they need. My next step will be to our legal guys for a considered opinion. Will probably end up contacting the provider as well. Thanks again, Gail On 10/21/2011 4:25 PM, Jessica Rosner wrote: I agree generally but you would really need to say what is involved. There are in fact significant restrictions in most streaming licenses. The most basic is that you can not download or copy the material and as that is specific and contractual I think it would indeed hold up in court and would supersede fair use. What is confusing me is what the students want to do? If they want to create some new work using clips I think that would likely be illegal IF they are using material that was licensed for streaming and forbid any copying. It would far better for them to simply use a physical copy to obtain any clips. Also depending on what they are trying to do , one could ask the rights holder for permission. Having already licensed the material for streaming there is a good chance they would grant permission to use a clip from it for a student project but again if the license specifically forbid copying you would need to ask. On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 4:57 PM, ghand...@library.berkeley.edu mailto:ghand...@library.berkeley.edu wrote: Hey Gail I'd say yeah, definitely, unless FU is trumped by specific contractual language which forbids certain uses (I've haven't seen any such language so far--at least in the licenses we've signed). Even if the contract DID somehow short-circuit fair uses (i.e. clips for use in course-related projects), my guess is that it wouldn't stand up in court. Gary Handman Is an institution's licensed video streaming content covered by fair use for said institution's students who want to use guideline compliant portions of that content for fair use compliant purposes? I want to say yes, but hesitate to do so without input from the collective wisdom. I don't remember prior discussion concerning this permutation of fair use. Thanks in advance, Gail Gail B. Fedak Director, Media Resources Middle Tennessee State University Murfreesboro, TN37132 Phone: 615-898-2899 tel:615-898-2899 Fax: 615-898-2530 tel:615-898-2530 Email: gfe...@mtsu.edu mailto:gfe...@mtsu.edu mailto:gfe...@mtsu.edu mailto:gfe...@mtsu.edu Web: www.mtsu.edu/~imr http://www.mtsu.edu/%7Eimr http://www.mtsu.edu/%7Eimr Education is a progressive study of your own ignorance. -- Will Durant VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. Gary Handman Director Media Resources Center Moffitt Library UC Berkeley 510-643-8566 tel:510-643-8566 ghand...@library.berkeley.edu mailto:ghand...@library.berkeley.edu http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself. --Francois Truffaut VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. -- Jessica Rosner Media Consultant 224-545-3897 (cell) 212-627-1785 (land line)
Re: [Videolib] Friday fair use question
You know I am not much of a techie, but it appears you are trying to allow a student to download or copy a film from a stream. Not sure that is breaking encryption, but it would clearly violate most contracts and frankly freak the hell out of distributors who have set up their own streaming systems. Though I only work with films where the school buys a copy and then gets to stream it on their own system, I can sympathize with rights holders being upset if something they are specifically set up not to allow were somehow done through technology. However it seems to me that the student would he be so much better off creating a film from what I imagine is an excellent and far bigger selection in the library collection. At the risk of being attacked by distributors who stream, I think the vast majority of docs including many of the best ones are not up for streaming, but widely available on VHS DVD from which the student could obtain clips. Just out of curiosity did the Prof teach the course using ONLY titles that were licensed for streaming? On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 6:57 PM, Gail Fedak gfe...@mtsu.edu wrote: Jessica, Gary, The prof who posed the question teaches a documentary filmmaking class in the history department. Although the class is not taught in the College of Mass Communication, its purpose is to teach students how to create documentaries, the final class project being to create a short one. A student enrolling in the class can petition the director of our Film Studies Interdisciplinary Minor to have it approved for completion of the minor credits. I consider these students among those who were granted permission to break encryption for fair use purposes. The collection in question is licensed/legally acquired, but I had not thought through the copyright/contract issue far enough to remember that contracts trump fair use. Unfortunately, I do not have the budget to acquire hard copies of everything in the streamed collections. However, I will suggest that this prof's students check our hard copy collection for the titles they need. My next step will be to our legal guys for a considered opinion. Will probably end up contacting the provider as well. Thanks again, Gail On 10/21/2011 4:25 PM, Jessica Rosner wrote: I agree generally but you would really need to say what is involved. There are in fact significant restrictions in most streaming licenses. The most basic is that you can not download or copy the material and as that is specific and contractual I think it would indeed hold up in court and would supersede fair use. What is confusing me is what the students want to do? If they want to create some new work using clips I think that would likely be illegal IF they are using material that was licensed for streaming and forbid any copying. It would far better for them to simply use a physical copy to obtain any clips. Also depending on what they are trying to do , one could ask the rights holder for permission. Having already licensed the material for streaming there is a good chance they would grant permission to use a clip from it for a student project but again if the license specifically forbid copying you would need to ask. On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 4:57 PM, ghand...@library.berkeley.edu wrote: Hey Gail I'd say yeah, definitely, unless FU is trumped by specific contractual language which forbids certain uses (I've haven't seen any such language so far--at least in the licenses we've signed). Even if the contract DID somehow short-circuit fair uses (i.e. clips for use in course-related projects), my guess is that it wouldn't stand up in court. Gary Handman Is an institution's licensed video streaming content covered by fair use for said institution's students who want to use guideline compliant portions of that content for fair use compliant purposes? I want to say yes, but hesitate to do so without input from the collective wisdom. I don't remember prior discussion concerning this permutation of fair use. Thanks in advance, Gail Gail B. Fedak Director, Media Resources Middle Tennessee State University Murfreesboro, TN37132 Phone: 615-898-2899 Fax: 615-898-2530 Email: gfe...@mtsu.edu mailto:gfe...@mtsu.edu Web: www.mtsu.edu/~imr http://www.mtsu.edu/%7Eimr http://www.mtsu.edu/%7Eimr Education is a progressive study of your own ignorance. -- Will Durant VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. Gary Handman Director Media Resources Center Moffitt Library
