[VIHUELA] Re: S de Murcia
Many thanks for that! Well obviously he must have seen it. When you start delving into these things it is amazing what you find. Regards Monica - Original Message - From: [1]Azalais To: [2]Monica Hall Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 10:26 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: S de Murcia Pujol does mention the de Murcia manuscript at the British Museum in his book Escuela Razonada de la Guitarra libro primero (c)1955 Ricordi Americana (Argentina). There is a reproduction of the cover image (Fig. 34 p.67), and (p.66 #138) he writes: La ultima de las obras escritas en tablatura que se conoce, es la de Santiago de MURCIA, titulada Passa-calles y obras de guitarra por todos los tonos naturales y accidentales. El ejemplar manuscrito cuya portada reproducimos (Fig. 34) data de 1732 y se encuentra en la Biblioteca del British Museum de Londres. Como las obras de esa epoca, son, desde el punto de vista historico, musical, instrumental y artistico, del mayor interes, trataremos de ellas mas adelante, con la debida extension. Another clue perhaps? On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Monica Hall [3]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: Gosh - that's quick. Many many thanks to both of you for going to so much trouble. It is the same as the Bream/Segovia. The interesting thing is that it is from Passacalles y obras which is the manuscript in the British Library rather than Resumen which is in the Biblioteca nacional in Madrid. I wonder how Pujol got hold of it. That's another mystery to solve. Did he come to England. Thank you both again. Monica - Original Message - From: Peter Kooiman [4]pkooi...@multimediabit.com To: Monica Hall [5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Cc: Vihuelalist [6]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 8:31 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] S de Murcia 1025 you'l find, not 1026.. First page of the prelude here [7]http://www.stretta-music.com/images/8/0/0/394008-01_zoom.jpg On 13 May 2014, at 21:27, Monica Hall [8]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: Returning to my original query I wonder whether anyone on the list actually has a copy of this Prelude pour guitare ; Allegro pour guitare ; edited by Emilio Pujol. Paris : Max Eschig, 1955. [Autors Anciens no. 1026]. I just want to be sure that it is the same pieces that Bream and Segovia are playing. There doesn't seem to be a copy in the UK. All I need is to see enough of it to identify it. Regards and thanks Monica To get on or off this list see list information at [9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:azal...@gmail.com 2. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 3. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 4. mailto:pkooi...@multimediabit.com 5. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 6. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. http://www.stretta-music.com/images/8/0/0/394008-01_zoom.jpg 8. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: S de Murcia
I have to suspect this is the pair of pieces popularly promoted by Segovia and Bream. Ohio State University's library is pretty well stocked regarding Pujol's publications of the vihuela literature, but we do not have a that edition. There is a copy of de Murcia's Prélude pour guitare; Allegro pour guitar in Pujol's (1955) Bibliothèque de musique ancienne et moderne pour guitar: Auteurs anciens, no. 1025., Éditions M. Eschig, OCLC 9475346 held by the University of Akron in northeast Ohio. I could request the document via interlibrary loan, although such requests can take several days to a couple weeks to materialize. However, Steven Aron (http://www.uakron.edu/music/faculty/bio-detail.dot?identity=d11e7426-654a-4d46-b648-80bcea7d974a or http://www.stephenaron.net/) directs the guitar program at Akron and may be amenable to pulling that copy off his library's shelves much sooner than I could access it. Let me know if this copy becomes useful and if I can facili! tate in any way. Best, Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Monica Hall Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 3:28 PM To: Vihuelalist Subject: [VIHUELA] S de Murcia Returning to my original query I wonder whether anyone on the list actually has a copy of this Prélude pour guitare ; Allegro pour guitare ; edited by Emilio Pujol. Paris : Max Eschig, 1955. [Autors Anciens no. 1026]. I just want to be sure that it is the same pieces that Bream and Segovia are playing. There doesn't seem to be a copy in the UK. All I need is to see enough of it to identify it. Regards and thanks Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: S de Murcia
Gosh - that's quick. Many many thanks to both of you for going to so much trouble. It is the same as the Bream/Segovia. The interesting thing is that it is from Passacalles y obras which is the manuscript in the British Library rather than Resumen which is in the Biblioteca nacional in Madrid. I wonder how Pujol got hold of it. That's another mystery to solve. Did he come to England. Thank you both again. Monica - Original Message - From: Peter Kooiman pkooi...@multimediabit.com To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 8:31 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] S de Murcia 1025 you’l find, not 1026.. First page of the prelude here http://www.stretta-music.com/images/8/0/0/394008-01_zoom.jpg On 13 May 2014, at 21:27, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: Returning to my original query I wonder whether anyone on the list actually has a copy of this Prélude pour guitare ; Allegro pour guitare ; edited by Emilio Pujol. Paris : Max Eschig, 1955. [Autors Anciens no. 1026]. I just want to be sure that it is the same pieces that Bream and Segovia are playing. There doesn't seem to be a copy in the UK. All I need is to see enough of it to identify it. Regards and thanks Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Antwort: Re: S. de Murcia
- Original Message - From: Garry Bryan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'VihuelaList' vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 2:32 PM Subject: RE: Antwort: Re: S. de Murcia ... Although, I have an eerie feeling that Alexander Batov is going to inform me shortly that there is evidence of a vihuela de mano with the same body dimensions of a bass viol :) . Not this time; I'll wait for a more appropriate occasion ;) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Antwort: Re: S. de Murcia
This seems like the right moment to mention that Eloy has made a brilliant CD of music combining baroque sources with son jarocho. It's called Laberinto en la guitarra : el espiritu barroco del son jarocho. It's on the Urtext label (which I think is Mexican), maker's number is UMA 2018. The web site is given as www.urtext.com.mx or www.urtextonline.com. Monica - Original Message - From: James A Stimson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 5:15 AM Subject: Re: Antwort: Re: S. de Murcia Dear Thomas and All: The Mexican musicologist Eloy Cruz has made an extensive study of the musical life of the early Spanish settlers. His theory is that as soon as substantial towns were established, the Spanish brought with them many of the trappings of Spanish urban life, including musical instruments. He also thinks it likely that instrument makers traveled to the New World fairly early on. I once asked Alejandro Planchart why there are so few traces of vihuelas in Central America and northern South America. One theory is that the wholesale destruction that accompanied wars of independence (Venezuela, for example, lost an estimated one-third of its population) took a heavy toll on the more fragile trappings of civilization such as music. Cheers, Jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] elec.com To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu cc: 05/13/2005 11:45 Subject: Antwort: Re: S. de Murcia AM I'm not sure spaniards of the 16th century considered music as luxury. They must have had a different approach to what luxury is and what is necessary. The question could be: *if* one took a musical instrument with him would it be a vihuela? As far as I understand the vihuela would be rather played by the nobility and therefor the number of people who *could* have taken a vihuela with them would be very limited. To stress Jon's picture of the Master -movie: It would rather be recorders, drums in all forms and that kind of instruments played by the common sailors and soldiers. But I would *not* tell it impossible that the one or the other nobleman took his favorite instrument with him which also could have been a vihuela (although I doubt it would be considered practical for life on board). BUT: Later, when colonies were established I am rather sure that among the first things they imported from spain would have been musical instruments. There must have been records surviving telling us about what was ordered from the colonies. Did anyone make a research about that? Best wishes Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] am 13.05.2005 18:00:03 An:Garry Bryan [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'VihuelaList' vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Kopie: Thema: Re: S. de Murcia When the Spanish colonized the new world, did they pack light? Would they have carried any musical instruments, or were they so militaristic that the finer things had no place in the baggage train of the first wave? Music is a luxury, and generally the thugs of the first wave are unlikely to have time for such a leisurely pursuit. RT ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html CONFIDENTIALITY : This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not a named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose or store or copy the information in any medium.
Re: S. de Murcia
It may be a good subject for a Milos Forman movie: 'Santiago' So it goes. His biography is pure fiction! And Salieri didn't murder Mozart either... Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Antwort: Re: S. de Murcia
There would be many possible movies about lute-players and their adventures. What was about Rizzo who was said to have a close relationship to Mary? Dowland as predesessor of James Bond? The life of the english Gaultier as adventure? Are there some vihuelanista-stories to add? With a tiny bit of fantasy I could make a fantastic script out of Corbetta's life (must be a french movie because it wouldn't have a happy end) ... Best wishes Thomas Lex Eisenhardt [EMAIL PROTECTED] am 13.05.2005 11:14:08 An:Monica Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED], vihuela vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Kopie: Thema: Re: S. de Murcia It may be a good subject for a Milos Forman movie: 'Santiago' So it goes. His biography is pure fiction! And Salieri didn't murder Mozart either... Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html CONFIDENTIALITY : This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not a named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose or store or copy the information in any medium.
Re: S. de Murcia
Starring Penelope Cruz as Maria Luisa and Nicholas Cage as Santiago of course. In my version they fall in love (Luis I and Ferdinand VI were really Santiago's children). When Maria Luisa dies of consumption a la Mimi in Boheme (actually she did!) Santiago went off to Mexico. I haven't written the sequel yet. Monica - Original Message - From: Lex Eisenhardt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Monica Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED]; vihuela vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 10:14 AM Subject: Re: S. de Murcia It may be a good subject for a Milos Forman movie: 'Santiago' So it goes. His biography is pure fiction! And Salieri didn't murder Mozart either... Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
RE: S. de Murcia
But wait! You forgot the happy ending. He's rescued by a passing Spanish treasure fleet and transported back to Spain. As soon as his invention is presented at court as a vihuela de mano, the Inquisition has him (and it) burned alive for nincompoopery. Simultaneously, on the desert island, a previously inactive volcano erupts. The ensuing inferno obliterates everything on the island, removing all traces of the newly invented musical instrument from existence. Now, that's a happy ending! -Original Message- From: bill kilpatrick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 7:36 AM To: Monica Hall; Lex Eisenhardt Cc: vihuela Subject: Re: S. de Murcia --- Monica Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Starring Penelope Cruz as Maria Luisa and Nicholas Cage as Santiago of course. In my version they fall in love (Luis I and Ferdinand VI were really Santiago's children). When Maria Luisa dies of consumption a la Mimi in Boheme (actually she did!) Santiago went off to Mexico. I haven't written the sequel yet .. where he gets ship wrecked on a desert island, saved by a cannibal princess and teaches the locals how to make plucky little cordafones. he neglects to tell them what they're called, however. and thus i made...a small vihuela from the shell of a creepy crawly... - Don Gonzalo de Guerrero (1512), Historias de la Conquista del Mayab by Fra Joseph of San Buenaventura. go to: http://www.charango.cl/paginas/quieninvento.htm ___ Yahoo! Messenger - want a free and easy way to contact your friends online? http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Antwort: Re: S. de Murcia
I'm not sure spaniards of the 16th century considered music as luxury. They must have had a different approach to what luxury is and what is necessary. The question could be: *if* one took a musical instrument with him would it be a vihuela? As far as I understand the vihuela would be rather played by the nobility and therefor the number of people who *could* have taken a vihuela with them would be very limited. To stress Jon's picture of the Master -movie: It would rather be recorders, drums in all forms and that kind of instruments played by the common sailors and soldiers. But I would *not* tell it impossible that the one or the other nobleman took his favorite instrument with him which also could have been a vihuela (although I doubt it would be considered practical for life on board). BUT: Later, when colonies were established I am rather sure that among the first things they imported from spain would have been musical instruments. There must have been records surviving telling us about what was ordered from the colonies. Did anyone make a research about that? Best wishes Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] am 13.05.2005 18:00:03 An:Garry Bryan [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'VihuelaList' vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Kopie: Thema: Re: S. de Murcia When the Spanish colonized the new world, did they pack light? Would they have carried any musical instruments, or were they so militaristic that the finer things had no place in the baggage train of the first wave? Music is a luxury, and generally the thugs of the first wave are unlikely to have time for such a leisurely pursuit. RT ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html CONFIDENTIALITY : This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not a named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose or store or copy the information in any medium.
