Re: Display of CJK characters in a utf-8 file on MacOS X / Vim 7
On 9/16/06, Elliot Shank [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yongwei Wu wrote: On 9/14/06, Elliot Shank [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I went through the entire contents of the install DVDs. There are no fonts that I don't already have. Looking through the Traditional Chinese support as well as the other specific language support packages, as far as I can tell, they primarily contain localization files for the standard applications (damn, the NeXT bundle concept for applications is a brilliant idea) and additional translations of help files and documentation, but no additional fonts. Do you mean that none of the following Traditional Chinese fonts contains the characters you want? - Apple LiGothic Medium - LiHei Pro - Apple LiSung Light - BiauKai - LiSong Pro If it is so, it will really surprise me. None of them contain the characters between U+FA70 and U+FAFF. Yes, I see. They are really new characters in Unicode 4.0, I think. *No* fonts I know have characters in this range. I doubt there is any. BTW, do you really have files that need characters in this range? I even have no idea what characters are there, before I downloaded http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/Unihan.zip, which shows: U+FA70 kCompatibilityVariant U+4E26 U+FA70 kIRG_KPSource KP1-341D U+FA70 kRSUnicode 1.7 U+FA71 kCompatibilityVariant U+51B5 U+FA71 kIRG_KPSource KP1-347E U+FA71 kRSUnicode 15.5 U+FA72 kCompatibilityVariant U+5168 U+FA72 kIRG_KPSource KP1-34D0 U+FA72 kRSUnicode 11.4 ... Best regards, Yongwei -- Wu Yongwei URL: http://wyw.dcweb.cn/
Re: Display of CJK characters in a utf-8 file on MacOS X / Vim 7
Yongwei Wu wrote: On 9/16/06, Elliot Shank [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yongwei Wu wrote: On 9/14/06, Elliot Shank [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you mean that none of the following Traditional Chinese fonts contains the characters you want? - Apple LiGothic Medium - LiHei Pro - Apple LiSung Light - BiauKai - LiSong Pro If it is so, it will really surprise me. None of them contain the characters between U+FA70 and U+FAFF. Yes, I see. They are really new characters in Unicode 4.0, I think. *No* fonts I know have characters in this range. I doubt there is any. Code2000 has a number of them, but as I said further up this thread, this font does not display very well in Vim, or in a bunch of other text editors. However WindowServer handles it just fine (i.e. when it is forced to use the font in order to display characters in the title bar of a window, it does so correctly), as does Terminal. BTW, do you really have files that need characters in this range? I even have no idea what characters are there, before I downloaded http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/Unihan.zip, which shows: U+FA70kCompatibilityVariantU+4E26 U+FA70kIRG_KPSourceKP1-341D U+FA70kRSUnicode1.7 U+FA71kCompatibilityVariantU+51B5 U+FA71kIRG_KPSourceKP1-347E U+FA71kRSUnicode15.5 U+FA72kCompatibilityVariantU+5168 U+FA72kIRG_KPSourceKP1-34D0 U+FA72kRSUnicode11.4 I've been looking at the default collation sequence (http://www.unicode.org/Public/UCA/latest/allkeys.txt). This is the order in which you should sort Unicode text if you have absolutely no idea of what locale to base your ordering on. Most of the time you've got some idea of how a set of people reading a list would expect the items to be sorted, but this is the ordering of last resort. If you restrict yourself to characters representable in 16 bits (i.e. ordinal = U+), the last ones in the default ordering appear to be characters that are somewhere in the U+FA70 and U+FAFF range. And so, I'm interested in being able to display these.
Re: Display of CJK characters in a utf-8 file on MacOS X / Vim 7
Yongwei Wu wrote: On 9/16/06, Elliot Shank [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] None of them contain the characters between U+FA70 and U+FAFF. Yes, I see. They are really new characters in Unicode 4.0, I think. *No* fonts I know have characters in this range. I doubt there is any. [...] Well, in gvim I see ideograms in this range, but I'm not sure exactly which fonts supplied them. All I know is that they were found by Pango/Xft when my chosen 'guifont', FZFangSong, did not supply the necessary glyphs. (I know because the line style of these glyphs is recognizably different from that of FZFangSong, and in some cases even between different codepoints in that range). Many of the glyphs I see in that range have rounded line angles and uniform line width, which is in marked contrast with the sharp angles and thick and thin strokes of the more usual brush-like calligraphic styles. I suspect (without proof) that that font is a Korean one. Of course, I'm on Linux, not Mac, and I suppose it makes a difference. Best regards, Tony.
Re: Display of CJK characters in a utf-8 file on MacOS X / Vim 7
Am 12.09.2006 um 20:31 schrieb Elliot Shank: Yongwei Wu wrote: On 9/12/06, Elliot Shank [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A.J.Mechelynck wrote: Elliot Shank wrote: 3. I don't know the fine points, but is there an Apple/Macintosh site from which you could download a language pack (or something) for your OS, to supplement whatever was shipped with it? I've got all the possible fonts from Apple installed. Googling either turns up font foundries or sites dealing with MacOS prior to X. I did some research and found that there should be Chinese fonts installed already. Please check: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301332 I googled with `chinese font site:apple.com'. Yes, and I've got them installed. These still don't cover some of the things I'm dealing with, specifically in the CJK Compatibility Ideographs block (U+F900 to U+FAFF). I had a loook at the Character Pallet* (Zeichenpalette in German), the following fonts have characters in the F900 - FAFF range: #GungSeo Regular #PCMyunjo Regular-- this one seems to be fixed width AppleGothic Regular AppleMyungjo Regular (These 4 have F900. for F91F there are some more fonts.) You can enable the Character Pallet in Country settings - Keyboard settings if you want to have it in the Keyboard menu. Axel
Re: Display of CJK characters in a utf-8 file on MacOS X / Vim 7
On 9/13/06, Elliot Shank [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yongwei Wu wrote: On 9/12/06, Elliot Shank [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A.J.Mechelynck wrote: Elliot Shank wrote: 3. I don't know the fine points, but is there an Apple/Macintosh site from which you could download a language pack (or something) for your OS, to supplement whatever was shipped with it? I've got all the possible fonts from Apple installed. Googling either turns up font foundries or sites dealing with MacOS prior to X. I did some research and found that there should be Chinese fonts installed already. Please check: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301332 I googled with `chinese font site:apple.com'. Yes, and I've got them installed. These still don't cover some of the things I'm dealing with, specifically in the CJK Compatibility Ideographs block (U+F900 to U+FAFF). Try installing the Traditional Chinese support. I do not have access to Mac, but on my Windows machine, the only fonts that provide full support in this range are Arial Unicode MS, Bitstream Cyberbit, and MingLiU. The former two are variable-width font, so only the last font (standard font for Traditional Chinese) is usable in Vim. The Simplified Chinese font and the Japanese font only include part of the characters in that range, like U+F929. I do not have Korean support installed. Best regards, Yongwei -- Wu Yongwei URL: http://wyw.dcweb.cn/
Re: Display of CJK characters in a utf-8 file on MacOS X / Vim 7
Yongwei Wu wrote: Yes, and I've got them installed. These still don't cover some of the things I'm dealing with, specifically in the CJK Compatibility Ideographs block (U+F900 to U+FAFF). Try installing the Traditional Chinese support. I do not have access to Mac, but on my Windows machine, the only fonts that provide full support in this range are Arial Unicode MS, Bitstream Cyberbit, and MingLiU. The former two are variable-width font, so only the last font (standard font for Traditional Chinese) is usable in Vim. The Simplified Chinese font and the Japanese font only include part of the characters in that range, like U+F929. I do not have Korean support installed. I went through the entire contents of the install DVDs. There are no fonts that I don't already have. Looking through the Traditional Chinese support as well as the other specific language support packages, as far as I can tell, they primarily contain localization files for the standard applications (damn, the NeXT bundle concept for applications is a brilliant idea) and additional translations of help files and documentation, but no additional fonts.
Re: Display of CJK characters in a utf-8 file on MacOS X / Vim 7
A.J.Mechelynck wrote: Elliot Shank wrote: I swear I saw something on this list about this before, but I can't find it. If someone can point me at the prior post, I'd appreciate it. I've got a utf-8 file with some CJK characters in it. These characters are being displayed on the line below they are actually on. 'guifont' is set to Courier. The only font that I've got on my machine that can handle the specific CJK characters I'm looking at is the Code2000 shareware font from James Kass, so Vim is picking up the glyph from there. (I.e., none of the CJK fonts that ship as part of MacOS X can handle it.) Using the octothorpe to represent the character, I've got a line of text like this: blah blah blah # blah blah blah blah but this is displayed as blah blah blah blah blah blah blah # I can edit this just fine; this is only a display problem and not a functionality one. But it's still a pain. 1. What happens if you set your 'guifont' to Code2000 ? (Yeah, I know it's not a very pretty font, but ugly is better than nothing.) Ooog. /Everything's/ illegible. It's like only the bottom two pixels of each character are being displayed. 2. IIUC, 'guifontwide' and (when available) 'guifontset' can be left at their (empty) defaults, and gvim will attempt to find a suitable font for wide characters not found in your 'guifont'. Obviously, since that's the way Vim is displaying the character when 'guifont' is Courier. 3. I don't know the fine points, but is there an Apple/Macintosh site from which you could download a language pack (or something) for your OS, to supplement whatever was shipped with it? I've got all the possible fonts from Apple installed. Googling either turns up font foundries or sites dealing with MacOS prior to X. 4. gvim can _edit_ any Unicode codepoint, but I'm not sure it can _display_ codepoints higher than U+, such as the ideograms in the CJK Unified Ideographs Extension B block, U+2 to U+2A6DF. Here on my gvim running on SuSE Linux, I have several nice-looking CJK fonts, but those high codepoints all display as a wide question mark glyph in gvim. Everything I'm concerned about fits into 16 bits, so this isn't a problem. But it is the upper end of 16 bits, which are the more recent blocks that I don't think apps have been dealing with much, even though they've been in the standard for a good number of years now. I still don't understand how things like the Win32 API are dealing with 17 or more bit characters, unless Microsoft has produced a third variant of everything that accepts UTF-8 or UTF-16; I don't think many people would go along with fixed 32 bit characters. I'm only dealing with a little bit of CJK text, so I can live with the situation.
Re: Display of CJK characters in a utf-8 file on MacOS X / Vim 7
Yongwei Wu wrote: On 9/12/06, Elliot Shank [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A.J.Mechelynck wrote: Elliot Shank wrote: 3. I don't know the fine points, but is there an Apple/Macintosh site from which you could download a language pack (or something) for your OS, to supplement whatever was shipped with it? I've got all the possible fonts from Apple installed. Googling either turns up font foundries or sites dealing with MacOS prior to X. I did some research and found that there should be Chinese fonts installed already. Please check: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301332 I googled with `chinese font site:apple.com'. Yes, and I've got them installed. These still don't cover some of the things I'm dealing with, specifically in the CJK Compatibility Ideographs block (U+F900 to U+FAFF).
Re: Display of CJK characters in a utf-8 file on MacOS X / Vim 7
Elliot Shank wrote: I swear I saw something on this list about this before, but I can't find it. If someone can point me at the prior post, I'd appreciate it. I've got a utf-8 file with some CJK characters in it. These characters are being displayed on the line below they are actually on. 'guifont' is set to Courier. The only font that I've got on my machine that can handle the specific CJK characters I'm looking at is the Code2000 shareware font from James Kass, so Vim is picking up the glyph from there. (I.e., none of the CJK fonts that ship as part of MacOS X can handle it.) Using the octothorpe to represent the character, I've got a line of text like this: blah blah blah # blah blah blah blah but this is displayed as blah blah blah blah blah blah blah # I can edit this just fine; this is only a display problem and not a functionality one. But it's still a pain. 1. What happens if you set your 'guifont' to Code2000 ? (Yeah, I know it's not a very pretty font, but ugly is better than nothing.) 2. IIUC, 'guifontwide' and (when available) 'guifontset' can be left at their (empty) defaults, and gvim will attempt to find a suitable font for wide characters not found in your 'guifont'. 3. I don't know the fine points, but is there an Apple/Macintosh site from which you could download a language pack (or something) for your OS, to supplement whatever was shipped with it? 4. gvim can _edit_ any Unicode codepoint, but I'm not sure it can _display_ codepoints higher than U+, such as the ideograms in the CJK Unified Ideographs Extension B block, U+2 to U+2A6DF. Here on my gvim running on SuSE Linux, I have several nice-looking CJK fonts, but those high codepoints all display as a wide question mark glyph in gvim. Best regards, Tony.
