Re: Gvim taking a minute or more to start

[A. S. Budden]

I've been running Vim with the HOME environment variable set for a couple
of weeks now and it's remained consistently fast to start up.  As a test I
went back to unsetting $HOME and it went back to being very slow to start,
so there's definitely some combination of the way I've got vim set up (the
lack of any configuration in %USERPROFILE%, the directory structure with
c:\vim\vimfiles, c:\vim\runtime and c:\vim\gvim.exe) and the lack of a HOME
environment variable that makes gvim decide to go extremely slowly.  I
really like having the file structure as it is as I can have a copy of
c:\vim (automatically synchronised) on a work network drive and if I have
to use someone else's PC temporarily, it runs off the network drive with
all of my configuration (albeit a bit slower due to the lack of $HOME and
the fact it's loading everything over the network).

Having HOME set is a bit of a pain to be honest.  I tried just setting it
to /home/al (as expected by cygwin, and set by cygwin if it's not set in
the global environment), but that made TortoiseHg have a flap due to there
being a cygwin symbolic link .hgrc in cygwin's /home/al, which TortoiseHg
didn't understand.  If I set it to anything other than /home/al, cygwin
decided that the $HOME location was my new home directory and ignored all
my configuration.

I ended up with HOME set somewhere suitably random and with a whole load of
edited cygwin startup stuff that made sure HOME was set to /home/al in
cygwin regardless of what Windows had set in the global environment.

It would have been much easier if Vim started properly without $HOME set,
but I guess that's not going to be an easy thing to fix.  At least it works
now.

Al

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Re: Gvim taking a minute or more to start

[jr]

On Mon, 12 Sept 2022 at 15:32, Andrew Bernard  wrote:
> ...
> static const char *required_env_vars[] = {
> #ifdef WIN32
>"HOMEDRIVE",
>"HOMEPATH",
> ...

nice.

> But if you are running in cygwin I would have thought that shell only
> uses a UNIX environment, so $HOME would be all that is needed. ...

@A.S.Budden : ... and HOME and some other environment variables are
best treated as "read-only".

@c.willis111 : agree, and it would be interesting if someone who uses
the Windows environment variables (corporate, I guess) could "chime
in".

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Re: Gvim taking a minute or more to start

[Andrew Bernard]

Looking at the source code for neovim (I'll check gvim later) I see the 
following in a file called funcs.c that evaluates the environment 
variables among other things:


/// According to comments in src/win/process.c of libuv, Windows has a few
/// "essential" environment variables.
static const char *required_env_vars[] = {
#ifdef WIN32
  "HOMEDRIVE",
  "HOMEPATH",
  "LOGONSERVER",
  "PATH",
  "SYSTEMDRIVE",
  "SYSTEMROOT",
  "TEMP",
  "USERDOMAIN",
  "USERNAME",
  "USERPROFILE",
  "WINDIR",
#endif
  NULL
};

But if you are running in cygwin I would have thought that shell only 
uses a UNIX environment, so $HOME would be all that is needed. I have 
not checked the logic of what happens when these variables are not set 
in the code. [I'm not a vim developer - yet!]



Andrew


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Re: Gvim taking a minute or more to start

['c.willis111' via vim_use]

-- Original Message --
From: "jr" 
To: vim_use@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, 12 Sep, 2022 At 15:09
Subject: Re: Gvim taking a minute or more to start
On Mon, 12 Sept 2022 at 14:26, A. S. Budden  wrote:
...
Oooh, that was a good shot! Setting the HOME environment variable seems 
to work (again, I've only tested this on one machine so far; I'll try 
the other tomorrow). It doesn't seem to matter what it's set to: I tried 
c:\cygwin\home\al and also just c:\ and it both cases Vim started very 
quickly.

great.

Assuming it works on the other PC then that feels like a good & simple 
fix, but it'd be nice to understand why Vim goes slowly without HOME set 
to anything.
fwiw, "it'd be nice to understand" why Microsoft does without a HOME 
;-).
It seems it is to do with their view of a file system. It's divided into 
HOMEDRIVE and HOMEPATH. It wd seem reasonable to insert a concatenation 
of these as HOME.  I hesitate to offer a command, or where it sd go.

Chris Willis
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.


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Re: Gvim taking a minute or more to start

[jr]

On Mon, 12 Sept 2022 at 14:26, A. S. Budden  wrote:
> ...
> Oooh, that was a good shot! Setting the HOME environment variable seems to 
> work (again, I've only tested this on one machine so far; I'll try the other 
> tomorrow). It doesn't seem to matter what it's set to: I tried 
> c:\cygwin\home\al and also just c:\ and it both cases Vim started very 
> quickly.

great.


> Assuming it works on the other PC then that feels like a good & simple fix, 
> but it'd be nice to understand why Vim goes slowly without HOME set to 
> anything.

fwiw, "it'd be nice to understand" why Microsoft does without a HOME ;-).

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Re: Gvim taking a minute or more to start

[A. S. Budden]

On Fri, 9 Sept 2022, 12:45 jr,  wrote:

> hi,
>
> On Fri, 9 Sept 2022 at 12:39, A. S. Budden  wrote:
> > ...
> >> I tried removing the HOME environment variable from cygwin (it's not
> set to anything in the Windows system, whereas it's set to /home/al in
> cygwin) and ran the command again from the cygwin terminal and it took a
> long time to start. I reset HOME to /home/al and it still took a long time
> to start! Opening a new cygwin terminal resulted in a quick start again.
> This is really weird!
>
> (shot in the dark, have no MS Windows) what happens if you set a HOME
> variable under Windows?
>

Oooh, that was a good shot! Setting the HOME environment variable seems to
work (again, I've only tested this on one machine so far; I'll try the
other tomorrow). It doesn't seem to matter what it's set to: I tried
c:\cygwin\home\al and also just c:\ and it both cases Vim started very
quickly.

Assuming it works on the other PC then that feels like a good & simple fix,
but it'd be nice to understand why Vim goes slowly without HOME set to
anything.

Thanks

Al

>

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Re: Gvim taking a minute or more to start

[A. S. Budden]

On Fri, 9 Sept 2022, 12:48 Andrew Bernard,  wrote:

> Take a look at Windows Event Viewer. You may be able to glean something
> from that.
>

I can't see anything obvious, but then I don't really know what I'm looking
for.


> Do you have an antivirus program running?
>

As far as I know, only the built in thing (windows defender)

>
>
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Re: Gvim taking a minute or more to start

[Andrew Bernard]

Take a look at Windows Event Viewer. You may be able to glean something 
from that.

Do you have an antivirus program running?


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Re: Gvim taking a minute or more to start

[jr]

hi,

On Fri, 9 Sept 2022 at 12:39, A. S. Budden  wrote:
> ...
>> I tried removing the HOME environment variable from cygwin (it's not set to 
>> anything in the Windows system, whereas it's set to /home/al in cygwin) and 
>> ran the command again from the cygwin terminal and it took a long time to 
>> start. I reset HOME to /home/al and it still took a long time to start! 
>> Opening a new cygwin terminal resulted in a quick start again. This is 
>> really weird!

(shot in the dark, have no MS Windows) what happens if you set a HOME
variable under Windows?

-- 
regards, jr.

You have the right to free speech, as long as you're not dumb enough
to actually try it.
(The Clash 'Know Your Rights')

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Re: Gvim taking a minute or more to start

[A. S. Budden]

On Fri, 9 Sept 2022 at 12:06, A. S. Budden  wrote:

> On Thu, 8 Sept 2022, 19:29 Gary Johnson,  wrote:
>
>> On 2022-09-08, David Lowry-Duda wrote:So if I run Windows gvim from a
>> cygwin terminal it starts quickly but if I run it from a windows command
>> prompt or from windows explorer, it takes ages. I've tried this lots of
>> times & it seems to be repeatable (I even created 10 instances of gvim in a
>> loop and they all appeared straightaway).
>>
>
> I tried removing the HOME environment variable from cygwin (it's not set
> to anything in the Windows system, whereas it's set to /home/al in cygwin)
> and ran the command again from the cygwin terminal and it took a long time
> to start. I reset HOME to /home/al and it still took a long time to start!
> Opening a new cygwin terminal resulted in a quick start again. This is
> really weird!
>

I repeated this test on the other work PC and got exactly the same
results.   I also tested it on my home PC and, while the startup time is
much faster from the command prompt than on my work PCs, even on the home
PC gvim starts quicker from a cygwin prompt than from a Windows command
prompt.

Al

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Re: Gvim taking a minute or more to start

[A. S. Budden]

On Thu, 8 Sept 2022, 19:29 Gary Johnson,  wrote:

> On 2022-09-08, David Lowry-Duda wrote:
> > >I'm pretty sure it's something about my configuration / plugins /
> > >something (gvim -u NONE -U NONE takes about 5 seconds), but I'm
> > >really struggling to diagnose the issue / work out which plugin is
> > >responsible.  I've got a lot of plugins that I've added over the
> > >years and I probably don't need all of them, but it would be nice
> > >to which is the culprit rather than just start culling them at
> > >random.
> >
> > Five seconds feels like a *really* long time for base gvim. I don't
> > use Windows, so perhaps my scale is off. But this feels like an
> > eternity.
>
> If it takes 5 seconds to start gvim with no plugins, especially when
> using a local SSD, something is very wrong someplace.  I just ran
> this command on my Windows 10 PC (with a hard drive) from a Cygwin
> prompt so that I could measure the time:
>
> $ time /cygdrive/c/Program\ Files/Vim/vim90/gvim -f -c scriptnames -cq
>
> real0m0.216s
> user0m0.000s
> sys 0m0.000s
>
> I had it execute :scriptnames just so it would have something
> to do before immediately quitting.  And that's with loading all
> my plugins.  With "-N -u NONE -i NONE", the real time dropped
> to 0.17 s.
>
> I suspect that whatever is causing that 5-second startup time is
> contributing to the read times of every file that gvim opens.
> So, while 5 seconds is better than 30, solving that 5-second issue
> may solve the rest.
>
> Unfortunately, I don't anything about diagnosing issues with Windows
> or security programs.
>

Okay, now that's REALLY weird.

Scriptnames slows things down a little as I have to scroll through a page
or two, but if I open a Cygwin64 Terminal and run:

time /cygdrive/c/vim/gvim.exe -f -c "echo h" -cq

The result is 866 ms. Adding -u NONE -U NONE changes it to 197 ms.

Removing all the arguments results in a near-instantaneous gvim window
popping up!

So if I run Windows gvim from a cygwin terminal it starts quickly but if I
run it from a windows command prompt or from windows explorer, it takes
ages. I've tried this lots of times & it seems to be repeatable (I even
created 10 instances of gvim in a loop and they all appeared straightaway).

I tried removing the HOME environment variable from cygwin (it's not set to
anything in the Windows system, whereas it's set to /home/al in cygwin) and
ran the command again from the cygwin terminal and it took a long time to
start. I reset HOME to /home/al and it still took a long time to start!
Opening a new cygwin terminal resulted in a quick start again. This is
really weird!

In /home/al there's a .vimrc that contains:

let  ='/cygdrive/c/vim/vimfiles,'.
runtime! vimrc

Removing /home/al/.vimrc seems to make no difference to the results.

I think I'm even more confused now!

I should probably note that this is on a different work PC to the one I was
using for tests yesterday, but I have 3 PCs that all show the slow start-up
problem.

Al

>

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Re: Gvim taking a minute or more to start

[A. S. Budden]

On Thu, 8 Sept 2022, 19:38 Tim Chase,  wrote:

> On 2022-09-08 11:30, Gary Johnson wrote:
> > I suspect that whatever is causing that 5-second startup time is
> > contributing to the read times of every file that gvim opens.
> > So, while 5 seconds is better than 30, solving that 5-second issue
> > may solve the rest.
> >
> > Unfortunately, I don't anything about diagnosing issues with Windows
> > or security programs.
>
> While my Windows experience is similarly limited, the symptoms sound
> suspiciously like either anti-virus software or a virus intervening
> on every file-system read to see if the file is infected/valuable.
>
> I'd be curious if apps take a similar amount of "bonus" time to
> load.  If you (OP) have Python installed on the machine, it would
> be interesting to run the python interpreter and issue
>
>   C:\> python -q
>   >>> import os
>   >>> f = open(os.path.expanduser("~/_vimrc"))
>   >>> f.close()
>
> Entering that `open()` call should take negligible time, the blink
> of an eye.  If that takes any noticeable amount of time, something
> outside vim is intercepting all your (OP's) file-reads at an
> atrocious cost.
>

That specific command produced an immediate file-not-found message (the
only _vimrc I have is in c:/vim). Running:

>>> f = open('c:/vim/_vimrc')
>>> f2 = open('c:/vim/vimfiles/vimrc')

both commands were instantaneous

>

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Re: Gvim taking a minute or more to start

[Tim Chase]

On 2022-09-08 11:30, Gary Johnson wrote:
> I suspect that whatever is causing that 5-second startup time is
> contributing to the read times of every file that gvim opens.
> So, while 5 seconds is better than 30, solving that 5-second issue
> may solve the rest.
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't anything about diagnosing issues with Windows
> or security programs.

While my Windows experience is similarly limited, the symptoms sound
suspiciously like either anti-virus software or a virus intervening
on every file-system read to see if the file is infected/valuable.

I'd be curious if apps take a similar amount of "bonus" time to
load.  If you (OP) have Python installed on the machine, it would
be interesting to run the python interpreter and issue

  C:\> python -q
  >>> import os
  >>> f = open(os.path.expanduser("~/_vimrc"))
  >>> f.close()

Entering that `open()` call should take negligible time, the blink
of an eye.  If that takes any noticeable amount of time, something
outside vim is intercepting all your (OP's) file-reads at an
atrocious cost.

-tim




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Re: Gvim taking a minute or more to start

[Gary Johnson]

On 2022-09-08, David Lowry-Duda wrote:
> >I'm pretty sure it's something about my configuration / plugins /
> >something (gvim -u NONE -U NONE takes about 5 seconds), but I'm
> >really struggling to diagnose the issue / work out which plugin is
> >responsible.  I've got a lot of plugins that I've added over the
> >years and I probably don't need all of them, but it would be nice
> >to which is the culprit rather than just start culling them at
> >random.
> 
> Five seconds feels like a *really* long time for base gvim. I don't
> use Windows, so perhaps my scale is off. But this feels like an
> eternity.

If it takes 5 seconds to start gvim with no plugins, especially when
using a local SSD, something is very wrong someplace.  I just ran
this command on my Windows 10 PC (with a hard drive) from a Cygwin
prompt so that I could measure the time:

$ time /cygdrive/c/Program\ Files/Vim/vim90/gvim -f -c scriptnames -cq

real0m0.216s
user0m0.000s
sys 0m0.000s

I had it execute :scriptnames just so it would have something
to do before immediately quitting.  And that's with loading all
my plugins.  With "-N -u NONE -i NONE", the real time dropped
to 0.17 s.

I suspect that whatever is causing that 5-second startup time is
contributing to the read times of every file that gvim opens.
So, while 5 seconds is better than 30, solving that 5-second issue
may solve the rest.

Unfortunately, I don't anything about diagnosing issues with Windows
or security programs.

Regards,
Gary

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Re: Gvim taking a minute or more to start

[A. S. Budden]

On Thu, 8 Sept 2022 at 17:33, David Lowry-Duda  wrote:

> >I'm pretty sure it's something about my configuration / plugins /
> >something (gvim -u NONE -U NONE takes about 5 seconds), but I'm really
> >struggling to diagnose the issue / work out which plugin is
> >responsible.  I've got a lot of plugins that I've added over the years
> >and I probably don't need all of them, but it would be nice to which is
> >the culprit rather than just start culling them at random.
>
> Five seconds feels like a *really* long time for base gvim. I don't use
> Windows, so perhaps my scale is off. But this feels like an eternity.
>

Yes, it isn't ideal, but I'd take 5 seconds over 30+ any day!


> On my work machine, gvim with -u NONE takes 100 milliseconds to start.
> It takes 600 milliseconds to start with my current vimrc. I use several,
> but perhaps not a very large amount, of plugins. I interpret this to
> mean that it might be reasonable for startuptime to multiply by a factor
> of 6 or so when loading several plugins?
>
> >Can anyone suggest what I can do to try to diagnose the cause of the
> >delay?  The only thought I've had is to delete plugins from the bundle
> >directory one-by-one until it starts quickly but that seems a rather
> >haphazard approach.
>
> I'll note that a binary search for relevant plugins is probably faster
> than a one-by-one search. I'm sorry I wasn't more helpful.
>

That's a good point - I'll try that when I'm back at work tomorrow.

Al

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Re: Gvim taking a minute or more to start

[David Lowry-Duda]

I'm pretty sure it's something about my configuration / plugins / 
something (gvim -u NONE -U NONE takes about 5 seconds), but I'm really 
struggling to diagnose the issue / work out which plugin is 
responsible.  I've got a lot of plugins that I've added over the years 
and I probably don't need all of them, but it would be nice to which is 
the culprit rather than just start culling them at random.


Five seconds feels like a *really* long time for base gvim. I don't use 
Windows, so perhaps my scale is off. But this feels like an eternity.


On my work machine, gvim with -u NONE takes 100 milliseconds to start. 
It takes 600 milliseconds to start with my current vimrc. I use several, 
but perhaps not a very large amount, of plugins. I interpret this to 
mean that it might be reasonable for startuptime to multiply by a factor 
of 6 or so when loading several plugins?



Can anyone suggest what I can do to try to diagnose the cause of the
delay?  The only thought I've had is to delete plugins from the bundle
directory one-by-one until it starts quickly but that seems a rather
haphazard approach.


I'll note that a binary search for relevant plugins is probably faster 
than a one-by-one search. I'm sorry I wasn't more helpful.


- DLD

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