[vintagvw] Valve spring retainer keepers. gone missing?
I've gone to the trouble of replacing my transaxel after having the bug off the road for four years. I was commuting daily for about a year before the tranny failed. (70 mi round trip) So imagine my surprise to discover when adjusting the valves that one of my valve stems is below the valve spring retainer. Its suppose to stick above that so the rocker foot can push on it. This seems really bad. Doesn't this mean my valve has been getting clobbered by the piston? Doesn't this mean I have to pull the head and have it rebuilt, if possible, or replaced. Or is this the one time when something seems bad but really isn't? I suppose I could take off the rocker arm to see if the valve stem is ok, if the valve spring retainer keepers are anywhere to be seen. I don't really have much more money or time to throw at this. Please send me a miracle. Oh, Its a '71 Super Beetle with about 30,000 miles on an 1915 cc engine rebuilt by Strictly Foreign (circa 2000). I was running it with a single 34pict jetted for the larger displacement. Dean Johnson Williamson, NY p.s. to make sure my terminology makes sense, valve stem: skinny end of valve sticking out towards the rocker assembly. valve spring retainer: disk shaped metal with hole in the center for valve stem. sits on top (out board really) of the spring valve spring retainer keeper: This I can't see but I assume there are two of this buggers around the valve stem that sit in a circular groove around the end of the valve stem, they keep the valve stem from doing what mine did, sneaking back towards the combustion chamber. -- Visit the VintagVW archives at http://mail-archive.com/vintagvw@googlegroups.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VintagVW - Air Cooled Volkswagen Discussion List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to vintagvw+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to vintagvw@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintagvw?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
RE: [vintagvw] Valve spring retainer keepers. gone missing?
Hey Dean. Wow, that is really strange. Any chance someone 'liberated' the keepers from that valve sometime in the 4 years after the transmission failed? Here is a thread from thesamba about the air compressor tool: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=466412 Can't wait to hear the outcome of this. From: vintagvw@googlegroups.com [mailto:vintagvw@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dean Johnson Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:24 PM To: vintagvw@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [vintagvw] Valve spring retainer keepers. gone missing? Chuck, Then engine wasn't making any rattling before I stopped driving it. I only stopped because I lost 4th gear (at least) while driving on the highway. So if the valve isn't bent, and the valve stem is in good shape I can replace the keepers in place. That would be a miracle. I'll see if I can gather the parts for an 'air hold'. I have a compression gauge perhaps the hose from that will work. Thanks, Dean On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Chuck Kuecker ckuec...@ckent.org wrote: If the valve can be pulled back level with the other valves, it's unlikely it is bent. If you can get your hands on an air hold - an air fitting that screws into the spark plug hole and uses air pressure to hold the valves closed - you can compress the spring and replace the keepers without tearing the engine apart. You can make one with an old spark plug and a pipe nipple and a little welding or soldering - or even JB Weld. Turn the engine over so the valves are closed before applying pressure - have the car in gear so the motor can't turn over. If there's no hissing from the carb or muffler, the valve is still seating correctly. If not, it's probably bent. Was the engine making any rattling noises? Chuck Kuecker On 3/28/2013 4:59 PM, Dean Johnson wrote: I've gone to the trouble of replacing my transaxel after having the bug off the road for four years. I was commuting daily for about a year before the tranny failed. (70 mi round trip) So imagine my surprise to discover when adjusting the valves that one of my valve stems is below the valve spring retainer. Its suppose to stick above that so the rocker foot can push on it. This seems really bad. Doesn't this mean my valve has been getting clobbered by the piston? Doesn't this mean I have to pull the head and have it rebuilt, if possible, or replaced. Or is this the one time when something seems bad but really isn't? I suppose I could take off the rocker arm to see if the valve stem is ok, if the valve spring retainer keepers are anywhere to be seen. I don't really have much more money or time to throw at this. Please send me a miracle. Oh, Its a '71 Super Beetle with about 30,000 miles on an 1915 cc engine rebuilt by Strictly Foreign (circa 2000). I was running it with a single 34pict jetted for the larger displacement. Dean Johnson Williamson, NY p.s. to make sure my terminology makes sense, valve stem: skinny end of valve sticking out towards the rocker assembly. valve spring retainer: disk shaped metal with hole in the center for valve stem. sits on top (out board really) of the spring valve spring retainer keeper: This I can't see but I assume there are two of this buggers around the valve stem that sit in a circular groove around the end of the valve stem, they keep the valve stem from doing what mine did, sneaking back towards the combustion chamber. -- Visit the VintagVW archives at http://mail-archive.com/vintagvw@googlegroups.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VintagVW - Air Cooled Volkswagen Discussion List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to vintagvw+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:vintagvw%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . To post to this group, send email to vintagvw@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintagvw?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5710 - Release Date: 03/28/13 -- Visit the VintagVW archives at http://mail-archive.com/vintagvw@googlegroups.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VintagVW - Air Cooled Volkswagen Discussion List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to vintagvw+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:vintagvw%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . To post to this group, send email to vintagvw@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintagvw?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Visit the VintagVW archives at http://mail-archive.com/vintagvw@googlegroups.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VintagVW - Air Cooled Volkswagen Discussion List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
RE: [vintagvw] Valve spring retainer keepers. gone missing?
Also, where would I be likely to find a valve spring compressor tool to use with heads on engine, engine in car. I can find pictures but none to buy, borrow, or steal. On Mar 28, 2013 6:32 PM, John Sroka john.at...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Dean. Wow, that is really strange. Any chance someone ‘liberated’ the keepers from that valve sometime in the 4 years after the transmission failed? Here is a thread from thesamba about the air compressor tool: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=466412 ** ** Can’t wait to hear the outcome of this. ** ** *From:* vintagvw@googlegroups.com [mailto:vintagvw@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Dean Johnson *Sent:* Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:24 PM *To:* vintagvw@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [vintagvw] Valve spring retainer keepers. gone missing? ** ** Chuck, Then engine wasn't making any rattling before I stopped driving it. I only stopped because I lost 4th gear (at least) while driving on the highway. So if the valve isn't bent, and the valve stem is in good shape I can replace the keepers in place. That would be a miracle. I'll see if I can gather the parts for an 'air hold'. I have a compression gauge perhaps the hose from that will work. Thanks, Dean On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Chuck Kuecker ckuec...@ckent.org wrote: If the valve can be pulled back level with the other valves, it's unlikely it is bent. If you can get your hands on an air hold - an air fitting that screws into the spark plug hole and uses air pressure to hold the valves closed - you can compress the spring and replace the keepers without tearing the engine apart. You can make one with an old spark plug and a pipe nipple and a little welding or soldering - or even JB Weld. Turn the engine over so the valves are closed before applying pressure - have the car in gear so the motor can't turn over. If there's no hissing from the carb or muffler, the valve is still seating correctly. If not, it's probably bent. Was the engine making any rattling noises? Chuck Kuecker On 3/28/2013 4:59 PM, Dean Johnson wrote: I've gone to the trouble of replacing my transaxel after having the bug off the road for four years. I was commuting daily for about a year before the tranny failed. (70 mi round trip) So imagine my surprise to discover when adjusting the valves that one of my valve stems is below the valve spring retainer. Its suppose to stick above that so the rocker foot can push on it. This seems really bad. Doesn't this mean my valve has been getting clobbered by the piston? Doesn't this mean I have to pull the head and have it rebuilt, if possible, or replaced. Or is this the one time when something seems bad but really isn't? I suppose I could take off the rocker arm to see if the valve stem is ok, if the valve spring retainer keepers are anywhere to be seen. I don't really have much more money or time to throw at this. Please send me a miracle. Oh, Its a '71 Super Beetle with about 30,000 miles on an 1915 cc engine rebuilt by Strictly Foreign (circa 2000). I was running it with a single 34pict jetted for the larger displacement. Dean Johnson Williamson, NY p.s. to make sure my terminology makes sense, valve stem: skinny end of valve sticking out towards the rocker assembly. valve spring retainer: disk shaped metal with hole in the center for valve stem. sits on top (out board really) of the spring valve spring retainer keeper: This I can't see but I assume there are two of this buggers around the valve stem that sit in a circular groove around the end of the valve stem, they keep the valve stem from doing what mine did, sneaking back towards the combustion chamber. -- Visit the VintagVW archives at http://mail-archive.com/vintagvw@googlegroups.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VintagVW - Air Cooled Volkswagen Discussion List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to vintagvw+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to vintagvw@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintagvw?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ** ** - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5710 - Release Date: 03/28/13 -- Visit the VintagVW archives at http://mail-archive.com/vintagvw@googlegroups.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VintagVW - Air Cooled Volkswagen Discussion List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to vintagvw+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to vintagvw@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintagvw?hl=en. For more options, visit
Re: [vintagvw] Valve spring retainer keepers. gone missing?
Dean, I am still a little confused...bear with me. From your description it sounds like the valve must still be retained...if it wasn't, the large round part that the retainers hold down against the presure of the spring and the spring would be laying on the bottom of the valve cover or pushing hard against the rocker arm. If you remove the rocker arm, does everthing on that valve fall off? If so, then the retainers(or parts of it) have truely failed. I suspect that what has happened is the valve was held in a partialy down position for all of those years and a few gentle taps migh cause the valve guide to let go of the valve and let the spring pop it back to something close to normalsome liberal spraying of pb blaster or so into where the valve stem and the valve guide are might help. Just my 2 cents worth...especially if the engine was running well to start with. Cheers, dave On Thu, 28 Mar 2013, Dean Johnson wrote: I've gone to the trouble of replacing my transaxel after having the bug off the road for four years. I was commuting daily for about a year before the tranny failed. (70 mi round trip) So imagine my surprise to discover when adjusting the valves that one of my valve stems is below the valve spring retainer. Its suppose to stick above that so the rocker foot can push on it. This seems really bad. Doesn't this mean my valve has been getting clobbered by the piston? Doesn't this mean I have to pull the head and have it rebuilt, if possible, or replaced. Or is this the one time when something seems bad but really isn't? I suppose I could take off the rocker arm to see if the valve stem is ok, if the valve spring retainer keepers are anywhere to be seen. I don't really have much more money or time to throw at this. Please send me a miracle. Oh, Its a '71 Super Beetle with about 30,000 miles on an 1915 cc engine rebuilt by Strictly Foreign (circa 2000). I was running it with a single 34pict jetted for the larger displacement. Dean Johnson Williamson, NY p.s. to make sure my terminology makes sense, valve stem: skinny end of valve sticking out towards the rocker assembly. valve spring retainer: disk shaped metal with hole in the center for valve stem. sits on top (out board really) of the spring valve spring retainer keeper: This I can't see but I assume there are two of this buggers around the valve stem that sit in a circular groove around the end of the valve stem, they keep the valve stem from doing what mine did, sneaking back towards the combustion chamber. -- Visit the VintagVW archives at http://mail-archive.com/vintagvw@googlegroups.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VintagVW - Air Cooled Volkswagen Discussion List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to vintagvw+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to vintagvw@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintagvw?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Visit the VintagVW archives at http://mail-archive.com/vintagvw@googlegroups.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VintagVW - Air Cooled Volkswagen Discussion List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to vintagvw+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to vintagvw@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintagvw?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [vintagvw] Valve spring retainer keepers. gone missing?
The valve will try to push back into the cylinder, if you push down on the spring to reinstall the valve keepers with a special valve compressor for use when the head is still installed. Some folks use an air compressor applying pressure thru a special air hose adapter through the sparkplug hole for that cylinder while the piston is locked down at TDC. In aviation mechanic school, another method they taught us was to coil a very soft, thick rope into the sparkplug hole to prevent the valve from going back into the cylinder while depressing the valve spring. Just the right kind of rope would be needed to do this job. Mike B. On 3/28/2013 8:12 PM, Dave C. Bolen wrote: Dean, I am still a little confused...bear with me. From your description it sounds like the valve must still be retained...if it wasn't, the large round part that the retainers hold down against the presure of the spring and the spring would be laying on the bottom of the valve cover or pushing hard against the rocker arm. If you remove the rocker arm, does everthing on that valve fall off? If so, then the retainers(or parts of it) have truely failed. I suspect that what has happened is the valve was held in a partialy down position for all of those years and a few gentle taps migh cause the valve guide to let go of the valve and let the spring pop it back to something close to normalsome liberal spraying of pb blaster or so into where the valve stem and the valve guide are might help. Just my 2 cents worth...especially if the engine was running well to start with. Cheers, dave On Thu, 28 Mar 2013, Dean Johnson wrote: I've gone to the trouble of replacing my transaxel after having the bug off the road for four years. I was commuting daily for about a year before the tranny failed. (70 mi round trip) So imagine my surprise to discover when adjusting the valves that one of my valve stems is below the valve spring retainer. Its suppose to stick above that so the rocker foot can push on it. This seems really bad. Doesn't this mean my valve has been getting clobbered by the piston? Doesn't this mean I have to pull the head and have it rebuilt, if possible, or replaced. Or is this the one time when something seems bad but really isn't? I suppose I could take off the rocker arm to see if the valve stem is ok, if the valve spring retainer keepers are anywhere to be seen. I don't really have much more money or time to throw at this. Please send me a miracle. Oh, Its a '71 Super Beetle with about 30,000 miles on an 1915 cc engine rebuilt by Strictly Foreign (circa 2000). I was running it with a single 34pict jetted for the larger displacement. Dean Johnson Williamson, NY p.s. to make sure my terminology makes sense, valve stem: skinny end of valve sticking out towards the rocker assembly. valve spring retainer: disk shaped metal with hole in the center for valve stem. sits on top (out board really) of the spring valve spring retainer keeper: This I can't see but I assume there are two of this buggers around the valve stem that sit in a circular groove around the end of the valve stem, they keep the valve stem from doing what mine did, sneaking back towards the combustion chamber. -- Visit the VintagVW archives at http://mail-archive.com/vintagvw@googlegroups.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VintagVW - Air Cooled Volkswagen Discussion List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to vintagvw+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to vintagvw@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintagvw?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Visit the VintagVW archives at http://mail-archive.com/vintagvw@googlegroups.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VintagVW - Air Cooled Volkswagen Discussion List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to vintagvw+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to vintagvw@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintagvw?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
RE: [vintagvw] Valve spring retainer keepers. gone missing?
Dean - never done one on-the-car. Can anyone recommend an affordable or makeable tool? The one on the Samba thread looks pricey. This is really interesting. Can you upload a few snapshots? From: vintagvw@googlegroups.com [mailto:vintagvw@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dean Johnson Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 4:37 PM To: vintagvw@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [vintagvw] Valve spring retainer keepers. gone missing? Also, where would I be likely to find a valve spring compressor tool to use with heads on engine, engine in car. I can find pictures but none to buy, borrow, or steal. On Mar 28, 2013 6:32 PM, John Sroka john.at...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Dean. Wow, that is really strange. Any chance someone 'liberated' the keepers from that valve sometime in the 4 years after the transmission failed? Here is a thread from thesamba about the air compressor tool: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=466412 Can't wait to hear the outcome of this. From: vintagvw@googlegroups.com [mailto:vintagvw@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dean Johnson Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:24 PM To: vintagvw@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [vintagvw] Valve spring retainer keepers. gone missing? Chuck, Then engine wasn't making any rattling before I stopped driving it. I only stopped because I lost 4th gear (at least) while driving on the highway. So if the valve isn't bent, and the valve stem is in good shape I can replace the keepers in place. That would be a miracle. I'll see if I can gather the parts for an 'air hold'. I have a compression gauge perhaps the hose from that will work. Thanks, Dean On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Chuck Kuecker ckuec...@ckent.org wrote: If the valve can be pulled back level with the other valves, it's unlikely it is bent. If you can get your hands on an air hold - an air fitting that screws into the spark plug hole and uses air pressure to hold the valves closed - you can compress the spring and replace the keepers without tearing the engine apart. You can make one with an old spark plug and a pipe nipple and a little welding or soldering - or even JB Weld. Turn the engine over so the valves are closed before applying pressure - have the car in gear so the motor can't turn over. If there's no hissing from the carb or muffler, the valve is still seating correctly. If not, it's probably bent. Was the engine making any rattling noises? Chuck Kuecker On 3/28/2013 4:59 PM, Dean Johnson wrote: I've gone to the trouble of replacing my transaxel after having the bug off the road for four years. I was commuting daily for about a year before the tranny failed. (70 mi round trip) So imagine my surprise to discover when adjusting the valves that one of my valve stems is below the valve spring retainer. Its suppose to stick above that so the rocker foot can push on it. This seems really bad. Doesn't this mean my valve has been getting clobbered by the piston? Doesn't this mean I have to pull the head and have it rebuilt, if possible, or replaced. Or is this the one time when something seems bad but really isn't? I suppose I could take off the rocker arm to see if the valve stem is ok, if the valve spring retainer keepers are anywhere to be seen. I don't really have much more money or time to throw at this. Please send me a miracle. Oh, Its a '71 Super Beetle with about 30,000 miles on an 1915 cc engine rebuilt by Strictly Foreign (circa 2000). I was running it with a single 34pict jetted for the larger displacement. Dean Johnson Williamson, NY p.s. to make sure my terminology makes sense, valve stem: skinny end of valve sticking out towards the rocker assembly. valve spring retainer: disk shaped metal with hole in the center for valve stem. sits on top (out board really) of the spring valve spring retainer keeper: This I can't see but I assume there are two of this buggers around the valve stem that sit in a circular groove around the end of the valve stem, they keep the valve stem from doing what mine did, sneaking back towards the combustion chamber. -- Visit the VintagVW archives at http://mail-archive.com/vintagvw@googlegroups.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VintagVW - Air Cooled Volkswagen Discussion List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to vintagvw+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:vintagvw%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . To post to this group, send email to vintagvw@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintagvw?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5710 - Release Date: 03/28/13 -- Visit the VintagVW archives at http://mail-archive.com/vintagvw@googlegroups.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VintagVW - Air Cooled Volkswagen Discussion
Re: [vintagvw] Valve spring retainer keepers. gone missing?
http://www.tooltopia.com/otc-tools-4573.aspx?utm_source=nextagutm_medium=cseutm_term=OTC4573utm_campaign=nextag_r1 On 3/28/2013 9:01 PM, John Sroka wrote: Dean -- never done one on-the-car.Can anyone recommend an affordable or makeable tool?The one on the Samba thread looks pricey. This is really interesting.Can you upload a few snapshots? *From:*vintagvw@googlegroups.com [mailto:vintagvw@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Dean Johnson *Sent:* Thursday, March 28, 2013 4:37 PM *To:* vintagvw@googlegroups.com *Subject:* RE: [vintagvw] Valve spring retainer keepers. gone missing? Also, where would I be likely to find a valve spring compressor tool to use with heads on engine, engine in car. I can find pictures but none to buy, borrow, or steal. -- Visit the VintagVW archives at http://mail-archive.com/vintagvw@googlegroups.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VintagVW - Air Cooled Volkswagen Discussion List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to vintagvw+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to vintagvw@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintagvw?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
