RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from this list)

[Carolyn Arnold]

I'll put it this way, none of the sighted people who know and love me would 
bother with it, too hard. 

Best regards,

Carolyn 


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 11:57 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

Low vision users may, but give e 1 single reason why a sighted person would 
turn on Voiceover and then turn on the screen curtain, at that point they are 
putting themselves on the same level as a blind person with respect to using 
their phone, they can’t see the screen and would have to rely entirely on 
Voiceover to double tap on things, they couldn’t swipe to answer a call and if 
they wanted to type something they couldn’t just tap away at lightning speed as 
many especially younger sighted people who grew up with touchscreens can do. 
This would almost be like a sighted person putting on a blindfold and walking 
around with a white cane, there simply is no reason for it.

 

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Pete 
Nalda
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2019 9:44 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

 

Oh, come on!  The world isn’t so black and white!  
Low vision people might use voiceover and even invoke screen curtain. 

 

Egun On, Lagunak! (basque for G'day, Mates

Louie P (Pete) Nalda

MySpace.com/musikonalda <http://MySpace.com/musikonalda> 

Facebook.com/lpnalda <http://Facebook.com/lpnalda> 

Linkedin.com/in/lpnalda <http://Linkedin.com/in/lpnalda> 

Twitter: @lpnalda


On Jun 20, 2019, at 4:05 PM, Mr. Ed mailto:pink...@abe.midco.net> > wrote:

Hi Sieghard and Janet,

I am not bashing anyone on this subject. I just find it hard to believe 
all those sighted people are using screen curtain as they would have to have VO 
on to use it. I am like Sieghard, how would they use it with VO on as I have 
not ran into any sighted person who could use VO. Are you sure they are using 
screen curtain and not just locking their iPhone to have the screen black.

Mr. Ed

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
[mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:09 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
    Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I 
unsub from this list)

 

I don’t think it was bashing, others including myself were simply 
stating our experience with how helpless almost all sighted people are when it 
comes to using a phone where Voiceover is turned on.

I have yet to come across a single sighted person who uses Voiceover 
and you can’t use screen curtain unless Voiceover is running since that is a 
feature which exists only if Voiceover is on, you can’t turn on screen curtain 
as a stand-alone accessibility feature.

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
janet gross
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 3:10 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I 
unsub from this list)

 

Sieghard and all,  

Ok once again, I will only reply to this Screen curtain issue one more 
time.  I’ve seen many sighted people including my family, as well as my friends 
using the screen curtain, matter of fact, I even seen my Niece’s school teacher 
using it.  please don’t ask me why, but the fact remains, I see this quite 
often.  I’ve even been on a public bus, and seen a bus driver using it, and the 
reason I know this is because they either tell me they like this screen curtain 
if they know me, or I hear Voiceover saying screen curtain on or off.  Maybe 
some sighted people use that feature for privacy as that is the reason I use 
the screen curtain feature.  Who knows, but it doesn’t matter to me if a 
sighted person wants to use an accessibility feature.  Although, I have noticed 
most of them who use the screen curtain, is when either they turn their phone 
off, or like this school teacher, she uses Siri to set the timer, and she turns 
on the screen curtain, maybe she doesn’t want the kids to see her phone screen. 
 They might not even realize they are using an accessibility feature, so if 
they want to, so be it!  

So some blind people say sighted people don’t know anything about 
accessibility, and I say I do know some sighted people do know about it.  We 
all are certainly entitled to our own opinions.  

Please let’s not turn this in to bashing.  

 

RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from this list)

[Sieghard Weitzel]

Low vision users may, but give e 1 single reason why a sighted person would 
turn on Voiceover and then turn on the screen curtain, at that point they are 
putting themselves on the same level as a blind person with respect to using 
their phone, they can’t see the screen and would have to rely entirely on 
Voiceover to double tap on things, they couldn’t swipe to answer a call and if 
they wanted to type something they couldn’t just tap away at lightning speed as 
many especially younger sighted people who grew up with touchscreens can do. 
This would almost be like a sighted person putting on a blindfold and walking 
around with a white cane, there simply is no reason for it.



From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Pete 
Nalda
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2019 9:44 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

Oh, come on!  The world isn’t so black and white!
Low vision people might use voiceover and even invoke screen curtain.

Egun On, Lagunak! (basque for G'day, Mates
Louie P (Pete) Nalda
MySpace.com/musikonalda<http://MySpace.com/musikonalda>
Facebook.com/lpnalda<http://Facebook.com/lpnalda>
Linkedin.com/in/lpnalda<http://Linkedin.com/in/lpnalda>
Twitter: @lpnalda

On Jun 20, 2019, at 4:05 PM, Mr. Ed 
mailto:pink...@abe.midco.net>> wrote:
Hi Sieghard and Janet,
I am not bashing anyone on this subject. I just find it hard to believe all 
those sighted people are using screen curtain as they would have to have VO on 
to use it. I am like Sieghard, how would they use it with VO on as I have not 
ran into any sighted person who could use VO. Are you sure they are using 
screen curtain and not just locking their iPhone to have the screen black.
Mr. Ed

From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
[mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:09 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

I don’t think it was bashing, others including myself were simply stating our 
experience with how helpless almost all sighted people are when it comes to 
using a phone where Voiceover is turned on.
I have yet to come across a single sighted person who uses Voiceover and you 
can’t use screen curtain unless Voiceover is running since that is a feature 
which exists only if Voiceover is on, you can’t turn on screen curtain as a 
stand-alone accessibility feature.


From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of janet 
gross
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 3:10 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

Sieghard and all,
Ok once again, I will only reply to this Screen curtain issue one more time.  
I’ve seen many sighted people including my family, as well as my friends using 
the screen curtain, matter of fact, I even seen my Niece’s school teacher using 
it.  please don’t ask me why, but the fact remains, I see this quite often.  
I’ve even been on a public bus, and seen a bus driver using it, and the reason 
I know this is because they either tell me they like this screen curtain if 
they know me, or I hear Voiceover saying screen curtain on or off.  Maybe some 
sighted people use that feature for privacy as that is the reason I use the 
screen curtain feature.  Who knows, but it doesn’t matter to me if a sighted 
person wants to use an accessibility feature.  Although, I have noticed most of 
them who use the screen curtain, is when either they turn their phone off, or 
like this school teacher, she uses Siri to set the timer, and she turns on the 
screen curtain, maybe she doesn’t want the kids to see her phone screen.  They 
might not even realize they are using an accessibility feature, so if they want 
to, so be it!
So some blind people say sighted people don’t know anything about 
accessibility, and I say I do know some sighted people do know about it.  We 
all are certainly entitled to our own opinions.
Please let’s not turn this in to bashing.

Janet
From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
[mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 11:42 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

I could ask the opposite, what makes you think all, most or even some sighted 
people know about the screen curtain?
I am completely blind but as part of operating a retail store in a small town 
where the only other few visually impaired or blind people are some elderly 
folks who have lost their sight I deal exclusively with sig

Re: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from this list)

[Pete Nalda]

Oh, come on!  The world isn’t so black and white!  
Low vision people might use voiceover and even invoke screen curtain. 

Egun On, Lagunak! (basque for G'day, Mates
Louie P (Pete) Nalda
MySpace.com/musikonalda
Facebook.com/lpnalda
Linkedin.com/in/lpnalda
Twitter: @lpnalda

> On Jun 20, 2019, at 4:05 PM, Mr. Ed  wrote:
> 
> Hi Sieghard and Janet,
> I am not bashing anyone on this subject. I just find it hard to believe all 
> those sighted people are using screen curtain as they would have to have VO 
> on to use it. I am like Sieghard, how would they use it with VO on as I have 
> not ran into any sighted person who could use VO. Are you sure they are using 
> screen curtain and not just locking their iPhone to have the screen black.
> Mr. Ed
>  
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Sieghard Weitzel
> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:09 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
> from this list)
>  
> I don’t think it was bashing, others including myself were simply stating our 
> experience with how helpless almost all sighted people are when it comes to 
> using a phone where Voiceover is turned on.
> I have yet to come across a single sighted person who uses Voiceover and you 
> can’t use screen curtain unless Voiceover is running since that is a feature 
> which exists only if Voiceover is on, you can’t turn on screen curtain as a 
> stand-alone accessibility feature.
>  
>  
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of janet 
> gross
> Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 3:10 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
> from this list)
>  
> Sieghard and all,  
> Ok once again, I will only reply to this Screen curtain issue one more time.  
> I’ve seen many sighted people including my family, as well as my friends 
> using the screen curtain, matter of fact, I even seen my Niece’s school 
> teacher using it.  please don’t ask me why, but the fact remains, I see this 
> quite often.  I’ve even been on a public bus, and seen a bus driver using it, 
> and the reason I know this is because they either tell me they like this 
> screen curtain if they know me, or I hear Voiceover saying screen curtain on 
> or off.  Maybe some sighted people use that feature for privacy as that is 
> the reason I use the screen curtain feature.  Who knows, but it doesn’t 
> matter to me if a sighted person wants to use an accessibility feature.  
> Although, I have noticed most of them who use the screen curtain, is when 
> either they turn their phone off, or like this school teacher, she uses Siri 
> to set the timer, and she turns on the screen curtain, maybe she doesn’t want 
> the kids to see her phone screen.  They might not even realize they are using 
> an accessibility feature, so if they want to, so be it! 
> So some blind people say sighted people don’t know anything about 
> accessibility, and I say I do know some sighted people do know about it.  We 
> all are certainly entitled to our own opinions. 
> Please let’s not turn this in to bashing. 
>  
> Janet
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Sieghard Weitzel
> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 11:42 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
> from this list)
>  
> I could ask the opposite, what makes you think all, most or even some sighted 
> people know about the screen curtain?
> I am completely blind but as part of operating a retail store in a small town 
> where the only other few visually impaired or blind people are some elderly 
> folks who have lost their sight I deal exclusively with sighted people and 
> that includes going to buying shows where I often pass my phone to a sales 
> rep to show him a picture or ask him/her to take a picture of a product to 
> show to my employees. I rarely have come across anybody who can even take a 
> picture when Voiceover is on because sighted people don’t know you have to 
> double tap a button when Voiceover is active, they tap the Take Picture 
> button a few times until I tell them that doesn’t work. I don’t often turn on 
> the screen curtain, but when I do and forget I usually get the comment “Hmm, 
> your phone is off” or “your screen doesn’t work”.
> I guaranty that if you went to a mall and did a random survey of 500 sighted 
> people where you handed them an iPhone with Voiceover and the screen curtain 
> on and asked them the simple question whether they can tell you the time 
> which is displayed on the phone that none of them could. You might of course 
> get luc

RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from this list)

[Karen Poulakos]

I’m not sure they could even access the screen curtain without first turning on 
Voiceover.

 

Karen P

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Mr. Ed
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2019 4:05 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

 

Hi Sieghard and Janet,

I am not bashing anyone on this subject. I just find it hard to believe all 
those sighted people are using screen curtain as they would have to have VO on 
to use it. I am like Sieghard, how would they use it with VO on as I have not 
ran into any sighted person who could use VO. Are you sure they are using 
screen curtain and not just locking their iPhone to have the screen black.

Mr. Ed

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:09 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

 

I don’t think it was bashing, others including myself were simply stating our 
experience with how helpless almost all sighted people are when it comes to 
using a phone where Voiceover is turned on.

I have yet to come across a single sighted person who uses Voiceover and you 
can’t use screen curtain unless Voiceover is running since that is a feature 
which exists only if Voiceover is on, you can’t turn on screen curtain as a 
stand-alone accessibility feature.

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of janet 
gross
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 3:10 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

 

Sieghard and all,  

Ok once again, I will only reply to this Screen curtain issue one more time.  
I’ve seen many sighted people including my family, as well as my friends using 
the screen curtain, matter of fact, I even seen my Niece’s school teacher using 
it.  please don’t ask me why, but the fact remains, I see this quite often.  
I’ve even been on a public bus, and seen a bus driver using it, and the reason 
I know this is because they either tell me they like this screen curtain if 
they know me, or I hear Voiceover saying screen curtain on or off.  Maybe some 
sighted people use that feature for privacy as that is the reason I use the 
screen curtain feature.  Who knows, but it doesn’t matter to me if a sighted 
person wants to use an accessibility feature.  Although, I have noticed most of 
them who use the screen curtain, is when either they turn their phone off, or 
like this school teacher, she uses Siri to set the timer, and she turns on the 
screen curtain, maybe she doesn’t want the kids to see her phone screen.  They 
might not even realize they are using an accessibility feature, so if they want 
to, so be it!  

So some blind people say sighted people don’t know anything about 
accessibility, and I say I do know some sighted people do know about it.  We 
all are certainly entitled to our own opinions.  

Please let’s not turn this in to bashing.  

 

Janet 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 11:42 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

 

I could ask the opposite, what makes you think all, most or even some sighted 
people know about the screen curtain?

I am completely blind but as part of operating a retail store in a small town 
where the only other few visually impaired or blind people are some elderly 
folks who have lost their sight I deal exclusively with sighted people and that 
includes going to buying shows where I often pass my phone to a sales rep to 
show him a picture or ask him/her to take a picture of a product to show to my 
employees. I rarely have come across anybody who can even take a picture when 
Voiceover is on because sighted people don’t know you have to double tap a 
button when Voiceover is active, they tap the Take Picture button a few times 
until I tell them that doesn’t work. I don’t often turn on the screen curtain, 
but when I do and forget I usually get the comment “Hmm, your phone is off” or 
“your screen doesn’t work”.

I guaranty that if you went to a mall and did a random survey of 500 sighted 
people where you handed them an iPhone with Voiceover and the screen curtain on 
and asked them the simple question whether they can tell you the time which is 
displayed on the phone that none of them could. You might of course get lucky 
and somebody may have a blind friend or family member who may have told them 
about the screen curtain feature which does not exist for sighted people and is 
completely a foreign concept for them.

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of janet 
gross
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2019 10:38 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE

RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from this list)

[Cristobal Muñoz]

Indeed. It more sounds like if sighted people are telling you that they’re 
using screen curtain, they’re most likely messing with you.

There’s no real conceivable reason why a sighted person would use this specific 
accessibility related feature for the blind as opposed to say another general 
accessibility one that may lend itself to a more mainstream application. 
Regularly encountering its usage by sighted folks in the wild also sounds  
charitably speaking … implausible.

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mr. Ed
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2019 2:05 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

 

Hi Sieghard and Janet,

I am not bashing anyone on this subject. I just find it hard to believe all 
those sighted people are using screen curtain as they would have to have VO on 
to use it. I am like Sieghard, how would they use it with VO on as I have not 
ran into any sighted person who could use VO. Are you sure they are using 
screen curtain and not just locking their iPhone to have the screen black.

Mr. Ed

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
[mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:09 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

 

I don’t think it was bashing, others including myself were simply stating our 
experience with how helpless almost all sighted people are when it comes to 
using a phone where Voiceover is turned on.

I have yet to come across a single sighted person who uses Voiceover and you 
can’t use screen curtain unless Voiceover is running since that is a feature 
which exists only if Voiceover is on, you can’t turn on screen curtain as a 
stand-alone accessibility feature.

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
janet gross
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 3:10 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

 

Sieghard and all,  

Ok once again, I will only reply to this Screen curtain issue one more time.  
I’ve seen many sighted people including my family, as well as my friends using 
the screen curtain, matter of fact, I even seen my Niece’s school teacher using 
it.  please don’t ask me why, but the fact remains, I see this quite often.  
I’ve even been on a public bus, and seen a bus driver using it, and the reason 
I know this is because they either tell me they like this screen curtain if 
they know me, or I hear Voiceover saying screen curtain on or off.  Maybe some 
sighted people use that feature for privacy as that is the reason I use the 
screen curtain feature.  Who knows, but it doesn’t matter to me if a sighted 
person wants to use an accessibility feature.  Although, I have noticed most of 
them who use the screen curtain, is when either they turn their phone off, or 
like this school teacher, she uses Siri to set the timer, and she turns on the 
screen curtain, maybe she doesn’t want the kids to see her phone screen.  They 
might not even realize they are using an accessibility feature, so if they want 
to, so be it!  

So some blind people say sighted people don’t know anything about 
accessibility, and I say I do know some sighted people do know about it.  We 
all are certainly entitled to our own opinions.  

Please let’s not turn this in to bashing.  

 

Janet 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
[mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 11:42 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

 

I could ask the opposite, what makes you think all, most or even some sighted 
people know about the screen curtain?

I am completely blind but as part of operating a retail store in a small town 
where the only other few visually impaired or blind people are some elderly 
folks who have lost their sight I deal exclusively with sighted people and that 
includes going to buying shows where I often pass my phone to a sales rep to 
show him a picture or ask him/her to take a picture of a product to show to my 
employees. I rarely have come across anybody who can even take a picture when 
Voiceover is on because sighted people don’t know you have to double tap a 
button when Voiceover is active, they tap the Take Picture button a few times 
until I tell them that doesn’t work. I don’t often turn on the screen curtain, 
but when I do and forget I usually get the comment “Hmm, your phone is off” or 
“your screen doesn’t work”.

I guaranty that if you went to a mall and did a random survey of 

RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from this list)

[Mr. Ed]

Hi Sieghard and Janet,

I am not bashing anyone on this subject. I just find it hard to believe all 
those sighted people are using screen curtain as they would have to have VO on 
to use it. I am like Sieghard, how would they use it with VO on as I have not 
ran into any sighted person who could use VO. Are you sure they are using 
screen curtain and not just locking their iPhone to have the screen black.

Mr. Ed

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:09 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

 

I don’t think it was bashing, others including myself were simply stating our 
experience with how helpless almost all sighted people are when it comes to 
using a phone where Voiceover is turned on.

I have yet to come across a single sighted person who uses Voiceover and you 
can’t use screen curtain unless Voiceover is running since that is a feature 
which exists only if Voiceover is on, you can’t turn on screen curtain as a 
stand-alone accessibility feature.

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of janet 
gross
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 3:10 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

 

Sieghard and all,  

Ok once again, I will only reply to this Screen curtain issue one more time.  
I’ve seen many sighted people including my family, as well as my friends using 
the screen curtain, matter of fact, I even seen my Niece’s school teacher using 
it.  please don’t ask me why, but the fact remains, I see this quite often.  
I’ve even been on a public bus, and seen a bus driver using it, and the reason 
I know this is because they either tell me they like this screen curtain if 
they know me, or I hear Voiceover saying screen curtain on or off.  Maybe some 
sighted people use that feature for privacy as that is the reason I use the 
screen curtain feature.  Who knows, but it doesn’t matter to me if a sighted 
person wants to use an accessibility feature.  Although, I have noticed most of 
them who use the screen curtain, is when either they turn their phone off, or 
like this school teacher, she uses Siri to set the timer, and she turns on the 
screen curtain, maybe she doesn’t want the kids to see her phone screen.  They 
might not even realize they are using an accessibility feature, so if they want 
to, so be it!  

So some blind people say sighted people don’t know anything about 
accessibility, and I say I do know some sighted people do know about it.  We 
all are certainly entitled to our own opinions.  

Please let’s not turn this in to bashing.  

 

Janet 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 11:42 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

 

I could ask the opposite, what makes you think all, most or even some sighted 
people know about the screen curtain?

I am completely blind but as part of operating a retail store in a small town 
where the only other few visually impaired or blind people are some elderly 
folks who have lost their sight I deal exclusively with sighted people and that 
includes going to buying shows where I often pass my phone to a sales rep to 
show him a picture or ask him/her to take a picture of a product to show to my 
employees. I rarely have come across anybody who can even take a picture when 
Voiceover is on because sighted people don’t know you have to double tap a 
button when Voiceover is active, they tap the Take Picture button a few times 
until I tell them that doesn’t work. I don’t often turn on the screen curtain, 
but when I do and forget I usually get the comment “Hmm, your phone is off” or 
“your screen doesn’t work”.

I guaranty that if you went to a mall and did a random survey of 500 sighted 
people where you handed them an iPhone with Voiceover and the screen curtain on 
and asked them the simple question whether they can tell you the time which is 
displayed on the phone that none of them could. You might of course get lucky 
and somebody may have a blind friend or family member who may have told them 
about the screen curtain feature which does not exist for sighted people and is 
completely a foreign concept for them.

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of janet 
gross
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2019 10:38 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

 

Hi Marcio, 

How do you know sighted people don’t know about Screen Curtain?? I think you 
and others  are sadly mistaken when you think sighted people don’t know 
anything about the Screen Curtain?, but each to their own!  LOL! 

Janet 

 

From: 'Marcio' v

RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain

[Carolyn Arnold]

Same with my husband. In fact, I turn off Screen Curtain and VoiceOver. He 
taught electronics in community college and was a printer, so is a computer 
whiz, but not so with blind stuff on phones. 

We're like people talking politics. We think what we think and some think what 
they think, so we can just think what we think and let the world rock on. 

Best regards,

Carolyn 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 7:14 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com; Sieghard Weitzel 
Subject: Re: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain

Obviously there are some sighted people who know all about accessibility and 
some sighted people who don't know anything about it at all. I'd be surprised 
if a sighted person was using voiceOver though, since it changes the gesture 
set. A sighted person who isn't running VoiceOver can just touch an object on 
the screen, if they're running voiceOver they have to touch the object on the 
screen and then double tap the screen. I find it hard to believe a lot of 
sighted people would put up with this just to use the screen curtain. 
Furthermore, I think most sighted people would want to see the screen while 
they're using it, and if they're not going to use it, then the screen is going 
to just lock anyway, so I'm not sure why a sighted person would even bother 
with the screen curtain.




My wife is sighted, so she knows something about accessibility and VoiceOver, 
but she doesn't use screen curtain, and every time I hand her my phone I have 
to talk her through disabling the screen curtain and how she has to touch 
something and then double tap the screen. Obviously, I'll turn off VoiceOver 
before I hand her my phone, if I can.





On 6/19/19 11:08 AM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:


I don’t think it was bashing, others including myself were simply 
stating our experience with how helpless almost all sighted people are when it 
comes to using a phone where Voiceover is turned on.

I have yet to come across a single sighted person who uses Voiceover 
and you can’t use screen curtain unless Voiceover is running since that is a 
feature which exists only if Voiceover is on, you can’t turn on screen curtain 
as a stand-alone accessibility feature.

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
 <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  On Behalf Of 
janet gross
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 3:10 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I 
unsub from this list)

 

Sieghard and all,  

Ok once again, I will only reply to this Screen curtain issue one more 
time.  I’ve seen many sighted people including my family, as well as my friends 
using the screen curtain, matter of fact, I even seen my Niece’s school teacher 
using it.  please don’t ask me why, but the fact remains, I see this quite 
often.  I’ve even been on a public bus, and seen a bus driver using it, and the 
reason I know this is because they either tell me they like this screen curtain 
if they know me, or I hear Voiceover saying screen curtain on or off.  Maybe 
some sighted people use that feature for privacy as that is the reason I use 
the screen curtain feature.  Who knows, but it doesn’t matter to me if a 
sighted person wants to use an accessibility feature.  Although, I have noticed 
most of them who use the screen curtain, is when either they turn their phone 
off, or like this school teacher, she uses Siri to set the timer, and she turns 
on the screen curtain, maybe she doesn’t want the kids to see her phone screen. 
 They might not even realize they are using an accessibility feature, so if 
they want to, so be it!  

So some blind people say sighted people don’t know anything about 
accessibility, and I say I do know some sighted people do know about it.  We 
all are certainly entitled to our own opinions.  

Please let’s not turn this in to bashing.  

 

Janet 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
[mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 11:42 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I 
unsub from this list)

 

I could ask the opposite, what makes you think all, most or even some 
sighted people know about the screen curtain?

I am completely blind but as part of operating a retail store in a 
small town where the only other few visually impaired or blind people are some 
elderly folks who have lost their sight I deal exclusively with sighted people 
and

Re: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain

[Christopher Chaltain]

Obviously there are some sighted people who know all about accessibility 
and some sighted people who don't know anything about it at all. I'd be 
surprised if a sighted person was using voiceOver though, since it 
changes the gesture set. A sighted person who isn't running VoiceOver 
can just touch an object on the screen, if they're running voiceOver 
they have to touch the object on the screen and then double tap the 
screen. I find it hard to believe a lot of sighted people would put up 
with this just to use the screen curtain. Furthermore, I think most 
sighted people would want to see the screen while they're using it, and 
if they're not going to use it, then the screen is going to just lock 
anyway, so I'm not sure why a sighted person would even bother with the 
screen curtain.



My wife is sighted, so she knows something about accessibility and 
VoiceOver, but she doesn't use screen curtain, and every time I hand her 
my phone I have to talk her through disabling the screen curtain and how 
she has to touch something and then double tap the screen. Obviously, 
I'll turn off VoiceOver before I hand her my phone, if I can.



On 6/19/19 11:08 AM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:


I don’t think it was bashing, others including myself were simply 
stating our experience with how helpless almost all sighted people are 
when it comes to using a phone where Voiceover is turned on.


I have yet to come across a single sighted person who uses Voiceover 
and you can’t use screen curtain unless Voiceover is running since 
that is a feature which exists only if Voiceover is on, you can’t turn 
on screen curtain as a stand-alone accessibility feature.


*From:*viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf 
Of *janet gross

*Sent:* Tuesday, June 18, 2019 3:10 PM
*To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how 
do I unsub from this list)


Sieghard and all,

Ok once again, I will only reply to this Screen curtain issue one more 
time.  I’ve seen many sighted people including my family, as well as 
my friends using the screen curtain, matter of fact, I even seen my 
Niece’s school teacher using it.  please don’t ask me why, but the 
fact remains, I see this quite often.  I’ve even been on a public bus, 
and seen a bus driver using it, and the reason I know this is because 
they either tell me they like this screen curtain if they know me, or 
I hear Voiceover saying screen curtain on or off.  Maybe some sighted 
people use that feature for privacy as that is the reason I use the 
screen curtain feature.  Who knows, but it doesn’t matter to me if a 
sighted person wants to use an accessibility feature.  Although, I 
have noticed most of them who use the screen curtain, is when either 
they turn their phone off, or like this school teacher, she uses Siri 
to set the timer, and she turns on the screen curtain, maybe she 
doesn’t want the kids to see her phone screen. They might not even 
realize they are using an accessibility feature, so if they want to, 
so be it!


So some blind people say sighted people don’t know anything about 
accessibility, and I say I do know some sighted people do know about 
it.  We all are certainly entitled to our own opinions.


Please let’s not turn this in to bashing.

Janet

*From:*viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
[mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Sieghard Weitzel

*Sent:* Monday, June 10, 2019 11:42 AM
*To:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
*Subject:* RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how 
do I unsub from this list)


I could ask the opposite, what makes you think all, most or even some 
sighted people know about the screen curtain?


I am completely blind but as part of operating a retail store in a 
small town where the only other few visually impaired or blind people 
are some elderly folks who have lost their sight I deal exclusively 
with sighted people and that includes going to buying shows where I 
often pass my phone to a sales rep to show him a picture or ask 
him/her to take a picture of a product to show to my employees. I 
rarely have come across anybody who can even take a picture when 
Voiceover is on because sighted people don’t know you have to double 
tap a button when Voiceover is active, they tap the Take Picture 
button a few times until I tell them that doesn’t work. I don’t often 
turn on the screen curtain, but when I do and forget I usually get the 
comment “Hmm, your phone is off” or “your screen doesn’t work”.


I guaranty that if you went to a mall and did a random survey of 500 
sighted people where you handed them an iPhone with Voiceover and the 
screen curtain on and asked them the simple question whether they can 
tell you the time which is displayed on the phone that none of them 
could. You might of course get lucky and somebody may have a blind 
friend or famil

RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from this list)

[Fazil]

I share your experience, I have noticed that too.

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 9:09 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

 

I don’t think it was bashing, others including myself were simply stating our 
experience with how helpless almost all sighted people are when it comes to 
using a phone where Voiceover is turned on.

I have yet to come across a single sighted person who uses Voiceover and you 
can’t use screen curtain unless Voiceover is running since that is a feature 
which exists only if Voiceover is on, you can’t turn on screen curtain as a 
stand-alone accessibility feature.

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
janet gross
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 3:10 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

 

Sieghard and all,  

Ok once again, I will only reply to this Screen curtain issue one more time.  
I’ve seen many sighted people including my family, as well as my friends using 
the screen curtain, matter of fact, I even seen my Niece’s school teacher using 
it.  please don’t ask me why, but the fact remains, I see this quite often.  
I’ve even been on a public bus, and seen a bus driver using it, and the reason 
I know this is because they either tell me they like this screen curtain if 
they know me, or I hear Voiceover saying screen curtain on or off.  Maybe some 
sighted people use that feature for privacy as that is the reason I use the 
screen curtain feature.  Who knows, but it doesn’t matter to me if a sighted 
person wants to use an accessibility feature.  Although, I have noticed most of 
them who use the screen curtain, is when either they turn their phone off, or 
like this school teacher, she uses Siri to set the timer, and she turns on the 
screen curtain, maybe she doesn’t want the kids to see her phone screen.  They 
might not even realize they are using an accessibility feature, so if they want 
to, so be it!  

So some blind people say sighted people don’t know anything about 
accessibility, and I say I do know some sighted people do know about it.  We 
all are certainly entitled to our own opinions.  

Please let’s not turn this in to bashing.  

 

Janet 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
[mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 11:42 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

 

I could ask the opposite, what makes you think all, most or even some sighted 
people know about the screen curtain?

I am completely blind but as part of operating a retail store in a small town 
where the only other few visually impaired or blind people are some elderly 
folks who have lost their sight I deal exclusively with sighted people and that 
includes going to buying shows where I often pass my phone to a sales rep to 
show him a picture or ask him/her to take a picture of a product to show to my 
employees. I rarely have come across anybody who can even take a picture when 
Voiceover is on because sighted people don’t know you have to double tap a 
button when Voiceover is active, they tap the Take Picture button a few times 
until I tell them that doesn’t work. I don’t often turn on the screen curtain, 
but when I do and forget I usually get the comment “Hmm, your phone is off” or 
“your screen doesn’t work”.

I guaranty that if you went to a mall and did a random survey of 500 sighted 
people where you handed them an iPhone with Voiceover and the screen curtain on 
and asked them the simple question whether they can tell you the time which is 
displayed on the phone that none of them could. You might of course get lucky 
and somebody may have a blind friend or family member who may have told them 
about the screen curtain feature which does not exist for sighted people and is 
completely a foreign concept for them.

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
janet gross
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2019 10:38 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

 

Hi Marcio, 

How do you know sighted people don’t know about Screen Curtain?? I think you 
and others  are sadly mistaken when you think sighted people don’t know 
anything about the Screen Curtain?, but each to their own!  LOL! 

Janet 

 

From: 'Marcio' via VIPhone [mailto:viphone@googlegro

RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from this list)

[Sieghard Weitzel]

I don’t think it was bashing, others including myself were simply stating our 
experience with how helpless almost all sighted people are when it comes to 
using a phone where Voiceover is turned on.
I have yet to come across a single sighted person who uses Voiceover and you 
can’t use screen curtain unless Voiceover is running since that is a feature 
which exists only if Voiceover is on, you can’t turn on screen curtain as a 
stand-alone accessibility feature.


From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of janet 
gross
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 3:10 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

Sieghard and all,
Ok once again, I will only reply to this Screen curtain issue one more time.  
I’ve seen many sighted people including my family, as well as my friends using 
the screen curtain, matter of fact, I even seen my Niece’s school teacher using 
it.  please don’t ask me why, but the fact remains, I see this quite often.  
I’ve even been on a public bus, and seen a bus driver using it, and the reason 
I know this is because they either tell me they like this screen curtain if 
they know me, or I hear Voiceover saying screen curtain on or off.  Maybe some 
sighted people use that feature for privacy as that is the reason I use the 
screen curtain feature.  Who knows, but it doesn’t matter to me if a sighted 
person wants to use an accessibility feature.  Although, I have noticed most of 
them who use the screen curtain, is when either they turn their phone off, or 
like this school teacher, she uses Siri to set the timer, and she turns on the 
screen curtain, maybe she doesn’t want the kids to see her phone screen.  They 
might not even realize they are using an accessibility feature, so if they want 
to, so be it!
So some blind people say sighted people don’t know anything about 
accessibility, and I say I do know some sighted people do know about it.  We 
all are certainly entitled to our own opinions.
Please let’s not turn this in to bashing.

Janet
From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
[mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 11:42 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

I could ask the opposite, what makes you think all, most or even some sighted 
people know about the screen curtain?
I am completely blind but as part of operating a retail store in a small town 
where the only other few visually impaired or blind people are some elderly 
folks who have lost their sight I deal exclusively with sighted people and that 
includes going to buying shows where I often pass my phone to a sales rep to 
show him a picture or ask him/her to take a picture of a product to show to my 
employees. I rarely have come across anybody who can even take a picture when 
Voiceover is on because sighted people don’t know you have to double tap a 
button when Voiceover is active, they tap the Take Picture button a few times 
until I tell them that doesn’t work. I don’t often turn on the screen curtain, 
but when I do and forget I usually get the comment “Hmm, your phone is off” or 
“your screen doesn’t work”.
I guaranty that if you went to a mall and did a random survey of 500 sighted 
people where you handed them an iPhone with Voiceover and the screen curtain on 
and asked them the simple question whether they can tell you the time which is 
displayed on the phone that none of them could. You might of course get lucky 
and somebody may have a blind friend or family member who may have told them 
about the screen curtain feature which does not exist for sighted people and is 
completely a foreign concept for them.

From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of janet 
gross
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2019 10:38 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

Hi Marcio,
How do you know sighted people don’t know about Screen Curtain?? I think you 
and others  are sadly mistaken when you think sighted people don’t know 
anything about the Screen Curtain?, but each to their own!  LOL!
Janet

From: 'Marcio' via VIPhone [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 12:15 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from 
this list)

Carolyn,

How could they turn off Screen Curtain? They haven't a clue, and there is 
nothing to see.
Wondering the very same thing. Given that a sighted person will use the screen 
to do what we do using the screen reader, how could they do it without anything 
to see?

Cheers,
Marcio&l

RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from this list)

[janet gross]

Sieghard and all,
Ok once again, I will only reply to this Screen curtain issue one more time.  
I’ve seen many sighted people including my family, as well as my friends using 
the screen curtain, matter of fact, I even seen my Niece’s school teacher using 
it.  please don’t ask me why, but the fact remains, I see this quite often.  
I’ve even been on a public bus, and seen a bus driver using it, and the reason 
I know this is because they either tell me they like this screen curtain if 
they know me, or I hear Voiceover saying screen curtain on or off.  Maybe some 
sighted people use that feature for privacy as that is the reason I use the 
screen curtain feature.  Who knows, but it doesn’t matter to me if a sighted 
person wants to use an accessibility feature.  Although, I have noticed most of 
them who use the screen curtain, is when either they turn their phone off, or 
like this school teacher, she uses Siri to set the timer, and she turns on the 
screen curtain, maybe she doesn’t want the kids to see her phone screen.  They 
might not even realize they are using an accessibility feature, so if they want 
to, so be it!
So some blind people say sighted people don’t know anything about 
accessibility, and I say I do know some sighted people do know about it.  We 
all are certainly entitled to our own opinions.
Please let’s not turn this in to bashing.

Janet
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 11:42 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

I could ask the opposite, what makes you think all, most or even some sighted 
people know about the screen curtain?
I am completely blind but as part of operating a retail store in a small town 
where the only other few visually impaired or blind people are some elderly 
folks who have lost their sight I deal exclusively with sighted people and that 
includes going to buying shows where I often pass my phone to a sales rep to 
show him a picture or ask him/her to take a picture of a product to show to my 
employees. I rarely have come across anybody who can even take a picture when 
Voiceover is on because sighted people don’t know you have to double tap a 
button when Voiceover is active, they tap the Take Picture button a few times 
until I tell them that doesn’t work. I don’t often turn on the screen curtain, 
but when I do and forget I usually get the comment “Hmm, your phone is off” or 
“your screen doesn’t work”.
I guaranty that if you went to a mall and did a random survey of 500 sighted 
people where you handed them an iPhone with Voiceover and the screen curtain on 
and asked them the simple question whether they can tell you the time which is 
displayed on the phone that none of them could. You might of course get lucky 
and somebody may have a blind friend or family member who may have told them 
about the screen curtain feature which does not exist for sighted people and is 
completely a foreign concept for them.

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of janet 
gross
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2019 10:38 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

Hi Marcio,
How do you know sighted people don’t know about Screen Curtain?? I think you 
and others  are sadly mistaken when you think sighted people don’t know 
anything about the Screen Curtain?, but each to their own!  LOL!
Janet

From: 'Marcio' via VIPhone [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 12:15 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from 
this list)

Carolyn,

How could they turn off Screen Curtain? They haven't a clue, and there is 
nothing to see.
Wondering the very same thing. Given that a sighted person will use the screen 
to do what we do using the screen reader, how could they do it without anything 
to see?

Cheers,
Marcio<https://tinyurl.com/TlkTM>
AKA Starboy


Sent from a galaxy far, far away.
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Re: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain

[Holly]

Thanks for the info Mike.  Very interesting.  

Screen curtain would confound lots of sighted people, for sure.

Holly

"Your calm mind is the ultimate weapon against your challenges." 

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Re: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain

[Mike B.]

Hi Holly,

I'm running an, S E, model iPhone with the latest 12.3.1 iOS and yes, if the 
screen curtain is on when I turn the phone off the screen curtain will still 
be on when I turn the phone back on.

Take care.  Mike.  Sent from my iBarstool.  Go dodgers!
No one has more to say than the woman who says she doesn't want to talk 
about it.

- Original Message - 
From: Holly
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain


One question.  If screen curtain is on and you re-start the phone, will 
screen curtain be on when the phone powers up?

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Re: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain

[lenron brown]

Yeah no it's not that easy. They would only know if you told them or
they called apple.

On 6/10/19, Holly  wrote:
> One question.  If screen curtain is on and you re-start the phone, will
> screen curtain be on when the phone powers up?
>
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Re: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain

[Holly]

One question.  If screen curtain is on and you re-start the phone, will screen 
curtain be on when the phone powers up?

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Re: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain

[Christopher Chaltain]

I'm not so sure about one thing you said Sieghard. If a sighted person 
is handed a phone with a blank or black screen, and they go to the web 
to figure it out, I'm not sure it would be that easy to figure out. I 
just Googled for things like "Why is my iPhone screen blank?" and I 
couldn't find any reference to the screen curtain and VoiceOver. I 
didn't look really hard, but hard enough to convince myself that it 
wouldn't be that obvious for someone who doesn't already have a bit of a 
clue.



On 6/10/19 11:09 AM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:


Exactly correct, unless a sighted person has exposure to Voiceover 
because they know somebody who is blind they will not know how to turn 
off the screen curtain. Having said that, it would not be too hard for 
somebody to look up this information if they really wanted it, e.g. if 
somebody stole an iPhone and it was one which wasn’t protected with a 
passcode they could most certainly figure it out. In most other 
situations this is a non-issue because why would somebody want to turn 
off your screen curtain in the first place and if you gave your iPhone 
to a sighted person you know so they can make a call or help you with 
something you can turn it off yourself, most likely you would turn off 
Voiceover so they can use the phone and then the screen curtain 
disappears anyways.


*From:*'Marcio' via VIPhone 
*Sent:* Sunday, June 9, 2019 11:22 PM
*To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* Re: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain

Christopher,

Screen curtain is a VoiceOver feature. Most sighted people don't
use VoiceOver. Therefore, most sighted people aren't going to know
about the screen curtain or what gesture or Siri command they need
to use to turn it on or off.

Amen. And this is called logical thinking, I guess :)

Cheers,
Marcio <https://tinyurl.com/TlkTM>

AKA /Starboy/

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

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RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from this list)

[Mr. Ed]

Hi Janet,

I would say you could asked 10 sighted people what screen curtain is and they 
would not have a clue.  Screen curtain is afor blind users so like I said the 
sighted would not know what it is. Heck, most sighted people have never heard 
of voice over. Just asked some of your sighted people you know if they know 
what screen curtain is.

Mr. Ed

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
janet gross
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 12:38 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

 

Hi Marcio, 

How do you know sighted people don’t know about Screen Curtain?? I think you 
and others  are sadly mistaken when you think sighted people don’t know 
anything about the Screen Curtain?, but each to their own!  LOL! 

Janet 

 

From: 'Marcio' via VIPhone [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 12:15 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from 
this list)

 

Carolyn,

How could they turn off Screen Curtain? They haven't a clue, and there is 
nothing to see.

Wondering the very same thing. Given that a sighted person will use the screen 
to do what we do using the screen reader, how could they do it without anything 
to see?

Cheers, 
Marcio <https://tinyurl.com/TlkTM>  

AKA Starboy

 

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

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RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from this list)

[Carolyn Arnold]

How/why would they know about Screen Curtain. It doesn't even work, if you 
don't go into Accessibilities and turn on VoiceObver, which none of them ever 
need or want. 

Best regards,

Carolyn 


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
janet gross
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 1:38 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

Hi Marcio, 

How do you know sighted people don’t know about Screen Curtain?? I think you 
and others  are sadly mistaken when you think sighted people don’t know 
anything about the Screen Curtain?, but each to their own!  LOL! 

Janet 

 

From: 'Marcio' via VIPhone [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 12:15 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from 
this list)

 

Carolyn,

How could they turn off Screen Curtain? They haven't a clue, and there 
is nothing to see.

Wondering the very same thing. Given that a sighted person will use the screen 
to do what we do using the screen reader, how could they do it without anything 
to see?

Cheers, 
Marcio <https://tinyurl.com/TlkTM>  

AKA Starboy

 

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

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RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from this list)

[Carolyn Arnold]

That is what I thought, Hollie. 

Best regards,

Carolyn 


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Holly
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 1:30 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

Marcio;
 
A person who would steal a blind person’s phone would probably not have the 
brain power to figure out how to turn off screen curtain, let alone bring up 
Siri to turn off voice over.  Hahahaha.

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RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from this list)

[Carolyn Arnold]

That is what I think. I showed it to my card playing buddies, and they just 
sort of gaped and duh? Nothing there. 

Best regards,

Carolyn 


-Original Message-
From: 'Marcio' via VIPhone [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 1:15 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from 
this list)

Carolyn,


How could they turn off Screen Curtain? They haven't a clue, and there 
is nothing to see.

Wondering the very same thing. Given that a sighted person will use the screen 
to do what we do using the screen reader, how could they do it without anything 
to see?

Cheers, 
Marcio <https://tinyurl.com/TlkTM>  
AKA Starboy


Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

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RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from this list)

[Sieghard Weitzel]

I could ask the opposite, what makes you think all, most or even some sighted 
people know about the screen curtain?
I am completely blind but as part of operating a retail store in a small town 
where the only other few visually impaired or blind people are some elderly 
folks who have lost their sight I deal exclusively with sighted people and that 
includes going to buying shows where I often pass my phone to a sales rep to 
show him a picture or ask him/her to take a picture of a product to show to my 
employees. I rarely have come across anybody who can even take a picture when 
Voiceover is on because sighted people don’t know you have to double tap a 
button when Voiceover is active, they tap the Take Picture button a few times 
until I tell them that doesn’t work. I don’t often turn on the screen curtain, 
but when I do and forget I usually get the comment “Hmm, your phone is off” or 
“your screen doesn’t work”.
I guaranty that if you went to a mall and did a random survey of 500 sighted 
people where you handed them an iPhone with Voiceover and the screen curtain on 
and asked them the simple question whether they can tell you the time which is 
displayed on the phone that none of them could. You might of course get lucky 
and somebody may have a blind friend or family member who may have told them 
about the screen curtain feature which does not exist for sighted people and is 
completely a foreign concept for them.

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of janet 
gross
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2019 10:38 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub 
from this list)

Hi Marcio,
How do you know sighted people don’t know about Screen Curtain?? I think you 
and others  are sadly mistaken when you think sighted people don’t know 
anything about the Screen Curtain?, but each to their own!  LOL!
Janet

From: 'Marcio' via VIPhone [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 12:15 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from 
this list)

Carolyn,

How could they turn off Screen Curtain? They haven't a clue, and there is 
nothing to see.
Wondering the very same thing. Given that a sighted person will use the screen 
to do what we do using the screen reader, how could they do it without anything 
to see?

Cheers,
Marcio<https://tinyurl.com/TlkTM>
AKA Starboy


Sent from a galaxy far, far away.
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RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain

[Sieghard Weitzel]

Exactly correct, unless a sighted person has exposure to Voiceover because they 
know somebody who is blind they will not know how to turn off the screen 
curtain. Having said that, it would not be too hard for somebody to look up 
this information if they really wanted it, e.g. if somebody stole an iPhone and 
it was one which wasn’t protected with a passcode they could most certainly 
figure it out. In most other situations this is a non-issue because why would 
somebody want to turn off your screen curtain in the first place and if you 
gave your iPhone to a sighted person you know so they can make a call or help 
you with something you can turn it off yourself, most likely you would turn off 
Voiceover so they can use the phone and then the screen curtain disappears 
anyways.


From: 'Marcio' via VIPhone 
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2019 11:22 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain

Christopher,
Screen curtain is a VoiceOver feature. Most sighted people don't use VoiceOver. 
Therefore, most sighted people aren't going to know about the screen curtain or 
what gesture or Siri command they need to use to turn it on or off.
Amen. And this is called logical thinking, I guess :)

Cheers,
Marcio<https://tinyurl.com/TlkTM>
AKA Starboy


Sent from a galaxy far, far away.
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Re: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from this list)

[Marie N.]

I have done some teaching people who are just losing their sight and need to 
learn to use voiceover. It is best to turn the screen curtain on so they learn 
it without any sight. This relieves some of the frustration as their sight 
becomes worse. But a fully sighted person would probably have no clue what a 
screen curtain was or how to turn it off. The exception is for a close family 
or friend who has learned a bit about how we use our phones.

From: 'Marcio' via VIPhone 
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2019 10:14 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from 
this list)

Carolyn,

How could they turn off Screen Curtain? They haven't a clue, and there is 
nothing to see.Wondering the very same thing. Given that a sighted person will 
use the screen to do what we do using the screen reader, how could they do it 
without anything to see?

Cheers, 
Marcio 
AKA Starboy


Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

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Re: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain

['Marcio' via VIPhone]

Christopher,
Screen curtain is a VoiceOver feature. Most sighted people don't use 
VoiceOver. Therefore, most sighted people aren't going to know about 
the screen curtain or what gesture or Siri command they need to use to 
turn it on or off.

Amen. And this is called logical thinking, I guess :)

Cheers,
Marcio 
AKA /Starboy/


Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

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Re: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain

[Christopher Chaltain]

Screen curtain is a VoiceOver feature. Most sighted people don't use 
VoiceOver. Therefore, most sighted people aren't going to know about the 
screen curtain or what gesture or Siri command they need to use to turn 
it on or off. I don't feel compelled to prove that any of this is the 
case, and until someone can convince me that most sighted people know 
about the screen curtain and Voice Over gestures, I won't be changing my 
mind.



On 6/10/19 12:38 AM, janet gross wrote:


Hi Marcio,

How do you know sighted people don’t know about Screen Curtain?? I 
think you and others  are sadly mistaken when you think sighted people 
don’t know anything about the Screen Curtain?, but each to their own!  
LOL!


Janet

*From:*'Marcio' via VIPhone [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com]
*Sent:* Monday, June 10, 2019 12:15 AM
*To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I 
unsub from this list)


Carolyn,

How could they turn off Screen Curtain? They haven't a clue, and there is 
nothing to see.

Wondering the very same thing. Given that a sighted person will use 
the screen to do what we do using the screen reader, how could they do 
it without anything to see?


Cheers,
Marcio <https://tinyurl.com/TlkTM>

AKA /Starboy/

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

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RE: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from this list)

[janet gross]

Hi Marcio,
How do you know sighted people don’t know about Screen Curtain?? I think you 
and others  are sadly mistaken when you think sighted people don’t know 
anything about the Screen Curtain?, but each to their own!  LOL!
Janet

From: 'Marcio' via VIPhone [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 12:15 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from 
this list)

Carolyn,

How could they turn off Screen Curtain? They haven't a clue, and there is 
nothing to see.
Wondering the very same thing. Given that a sighted person will use the screen 
to do what we do using the screen reader, how could they do it without anything 
to see?

Cheers,
Marcio<https://tinyurl.com/TlkTM>
AKA Starboy


Sent from a galaxy far, far away.
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Re: Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from this list)

[Holly]

Marcio;

A person who would steal a blind person’s phone would probably not have the 
brain power to figure out how to turn off screen curtain, let alone bring up 
Siri to turn off voice over.  Hahahaha.

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Sighted people and Voiceover Screen Curtain (was: how do I unsub from this list)

['Marcio' via VIPhone]

Carolyn,

How could they turn off Screen Curtain? They haven't a clue, and there is 
nothing to see.
Wondering the very same thing. Given that a sighted person will use the 
screen to do what we do using the screen reader, how could they do it 
without anything to see?


Cheers,
Marcio 
AKA /Starboy/


Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

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