Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Todd, I am very new to the 3458 so much of it is slowly unfolding mystery to me (I'm a three day wonder). I went to the menu and selected FULL and then TEMP? appeared. I am not sure where to find this but it's probably in the manual somewhere. I will slowly uncover these secrets but it's frustrating at times. Easy once you know it. Thanks for the help, Todd. Randy On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 9:17 PM, Todd Micallef wrote: > Randy, > > Do you mean that you can select it, but it won't give you a temperature? Or > do you mean that you can't find it in the menu? If you go to the MENU > option, select FULL or something like that. It should enable all the extra > menus. > > If you can see it, I believe all you have to do is find it under the menu > and hit Enter. I have tested mine and have never had an issue with getting > a temperature measurement. > > Todd > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:48 PM, Randy Evans > wrote: > > > Can someone explain to me how to read the internal temperature using the > > front panel TEMP? command. I have played around but I am doing > something > > wrong. > > > > thanks, > > > > Randy > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Randy Evans > > wrote: > > > > > That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for > > > the display. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Randy > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold > wrote: > > > > > >> You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C"CAL > > >> 0,3458" "Enter". > > >> > > >> See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax. > > >> > > >> Bill > > >> > > >> - Original Message - > > >> From: "Randy Evans" > > >> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" > > >> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM > > >> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A > > >> > > >> > > >> > Bill, > > >> > > > >> > You are very helpful and I really appreciate it. > > >> > > > >> > I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF > > >> RANGE > > >> > -- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are > > saying. I > > >> > guess its no reason to panic yet. > > >> > > > >> > I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to > > open > > >> it > > >> > up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers. > > >> > > > >> > Thanks, > > >> > > > >> > Randy > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold > > wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Randy: > > >> > > > > >> > > You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a > > ACAL. > > >> You > > >> > > have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the > > ZERO > > >> > > calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the > > >> factory > > >> > > that > > >> > > way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do > > this > > >> from > > >> > > the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a > > jumper > > >> > > inside > > >> > > the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you > can > > do > > >> any > > >> > > CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is > > working > > >> as > > >> > > expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board > 66505 > > >> or > > >> > > 66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most > are > > >> set > > >> to > > >> > > this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get > > >> inside > > >> of > > >> > > the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type > screwdrivers > > >> to > > >> > > accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual. > > >> > > > > >> > > Bill > > >> > > > > >> > > - Original Message - > > >> > > From: "Randy Evans" > > >> > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" < > volt-nuts@febo.com > > > > > >> > > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM > > >> > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Bill, > > >> > > > > > >> > > > I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel > > >> command > > >> and > > >> > > I > > >> > > > get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do > > >> this > > >> > > > correctly? > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Thanks, > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Randy > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold > > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Randy: > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make > > >> yourself > > >> a > > >> > > "4 > > >> > > > > Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After > > >> ACAL I > > >> > > now > > >> > > > > read +000.2 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would > > expect > > >> that > > >> > > the > > >> > > > > meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a > > >> variation > > >> > > of > > >> > > > > +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the v
Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Randy, Do you mean that you can select it, but it won't give you a temperature? Or do you mean that you can't find it in the menu? If you go to the MENU option, select FULL or something like that. It should enable all the extra menus. If you can see it, I believe all you have to do is find it under the menu and hit Enter. I have tested mine and have never had an issue with getting a temperature measurement. Todd On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:48 PM, Randy Evans wrote: > Can someone explain to me how to read the internal temperature using the > front panel TEMP? command. I have played around but I am doing something > wrong. > > thanks, > > Randy > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Randy Evans > wrote: > > > That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for > > the display. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Randy > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold wrote: > > > >> You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C"CAL > >> 0,3458" "Enter". > >> > >> See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax. > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> - Original Message - > >> From: "Randy Evans" > >> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" > >> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM > >> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A > >> > >> > >> > Bill, > >> > > >> > You are very helpful and I really appreciate it. > >> > > >> > I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF > >> RANGE > >> > -- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are > saying. I > >> > guess its no reason to panic yet. > >> > > >> > I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to > open > >> it > >> > up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers. > >> > > >> > Thanks, > >> > > >> > Randy > >> > > >> > > >> > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold > wrote: > >> > > >> > > Randy: > >> > > > >> > > You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a > ACAL. > >> You > >> > > have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the > ZERO > >> > > calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the > >> factory > >> > > that > >> > > way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do > this > >> from > >> > > the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a > jumper > >> > > inside > >> > > the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can > do > >> any > >> > > CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is > working > >> as > >> > > expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505 > >> or > >> > > 66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are > >> set > >> to > >> > > this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get > >> inside > >> of > >> > > the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers > >> to > >> > > accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual. > >> > > > >> > > Bill > >> > > > >> > > - Original Message - > >> > > From: "Randy Evans" > >> > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" > > >> > > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM > >> > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Bill, > >> > > > > >> > > > I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel > >> command > >> and > >> > > I > >> > > > get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do > >> this > >> > > > correctly? > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks, > >> > > > > >> > > > Randy > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold > >> wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > > Randy: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make > >> yourself > >> a > >> > > "4 > >> > > > > Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After > >> ACAL I > >> > > now > >> > > > > read +000.2 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would > expect > >> that > >> > > the > >> > > > > meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a > >> variation > >> > > of > >> > > > > +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. > As I > >> > > remember > >> > > > > I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements > >> with > >> 100 > >> > > PLC > >> > > > > the statistics show: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Low reading-70 nVDC > >> > > > > Mean reading -28 nVDC > >> > > > > High reading+3.5 nVDC > >> > > > > Total Variation73 nVDC > >> > > > > > >> > > > > So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC. > >> After > >> an > >> > > > > hour > >> > > > > the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed > >> -000.00023 > >> > > mVDC. > >> > > > > After another ACAL the reading was again +000.2 mVDC. This > >> > > particular > >> > >
Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Can someone explain to me how to read the internal temperature using the front panel TEMP? command. I have played around but I am doing something wrong. thanks, Randy On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Randy Evans wrote: > That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for > the display. > > Thanks, > > Randy > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold wrote: > >> You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C"CAL >> 0,3458" "Enter". >> >> See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax. >> >> Bill >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Randy Evans" >> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" >> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A >> >> >> > Bill, >> > >> > You are very helpful and I really appreciate it. >> > >> > I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF >> RANGE >> > -- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are saying. I >> > guess its no reason to panic yet. >> > >> > I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to open >> it >> > up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Randy >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold wrote: >> > >> > > Randy: >> > > >> > > You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a ACAL. >> You >> > > have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the ZERO >> > > calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the >> factory >> > > that >> > > way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do this >> from >> > > the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a jumper >> > > inside >> > > the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can do >> any >> > > CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is working >> as >> > > expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505 >> or >> > > 66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are >> set >> to >> > > this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get >> inside >> of >> > > the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers >> to >> > > accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual. >> > > >> > > Bill >> > > >> > > - Original Message - >> > > From: "Randy Evans" >> > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" >> > > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM >> > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A >> > > >> > > >> > > > Bill, >> > > > >> > > > I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel >> command >> and >> > > I >> > > > get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do >> this >> > > > correctly? >> > > > >> > > > Thanks, >> > > > >> > > > Randy >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold >> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > Randy: >> > > > > >> > > > > Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make >> yourself >> a >> > > "4 >> > > > > Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown. >> > > > > >> > > > > Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After >> ACAL I >> > > now >> > > > > read +000.2 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would expect >> that >> > > the >> > > > > meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a >> variation >> > > of >> > > > > +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. As I >> > > remember >> > > > > I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature. >> > > > > >> > > > > If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements >> with >> 100 >> > > PLC >> > > > > the statistics show: >> > > > > >> > > > > Low reading-70 nVDC >> > > > > Mean reading -28 nVDC >> > > > > High reading+3.5 nVDC >> > > > > Total Variation73 nVDC >> > > > > >> > > > > So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC. >> After >> an >> > > > > hour >> > > > > the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed >> -000.00023 >> > > mVDC. >> > > > > After another ACAL the reading was again +000.2 mVDC. This >> > > particular >> > > > > meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up. >> > > > > >> > > > > Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements >> requiring >> > > low >> > > > > nanovolts. >> > > > > >> > > > > Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and >> choose >> > > > > "Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which is >> the >> > > > > replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the >> replacement >> > > part >> > > > > number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get the >> > > > > information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like you >> can >> > > just >> > > > > order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but you >> have >> > > to >> > > > > create or use an existing login account. >> > > > > >> > >
[volt-nuts] Fluke 732A themistor reading
Be aware that finding any sort of pure copper in a consumer style cable these days is a losing proposition... even cables sold as "100% oxygen free copper" from name brand makers with a reputation to lose. And then there is that magnetic 100% OFC copper from China... that has 1/3 the conductivity of normal copper... And don't get me started on bogo AWG wire size specs... ever see 16 AWG wire with like 5 hair-thin strands of bogo-copper in it? -- BTW, I understand that TV twin lead, the copper wire type, makes a good test lead for the 3458 measurements. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 732A themistor reading
I do have an ESI SR1 10Kohm standard, but I'm not sure its accurate enough...time to look around I suppose. BTW, I understand that TV twin lead, the copper wire type, makes a good test lead for the 3458 measurements. It seems reasonable, although the leakage resistance might be questionable. Randy On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Todd Micallef wrote: > Randy, > > Next thing you know, you will be looking at a 10K standard resistor to go > with that 3458A and possible 732A. > > Todd > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 3:51 PM, Randy Evans > wrote: > > > Todd and Bill, > > > > Thanks for the input. The 3.6 K thermistor reading seems viable and i > will > > pursue it further. > > > > I may have over committed myself to modifying the HP-419A, the Fluke > 845A, > > buying the 3458A and looking at buying a Fluke 732A. > > > > So much to do and so little time. > > > > Thanks again, > > > > Randy > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:48 AM, Bill Gold wrote: > > > > > Randy: > > > > > > I have 6 ea Fluke 732A instruments. The results of being an over > the > > > edge and deeply obsessed "Volt Nut", they just kept adding > (reproducing?) > > > over the years. My readings for the themistors range from 3.407K OHMS > to > > > 4.514K OHMS and all work just fine. 3.6K OHMS would seem just fine to > > me. > > > It really depends upon the final inside temp of the oven assembly. The > > one > > > with 3.407K OHMS measures around 47.5 degrees C while the others are > > around > > > 45 C. It is the stability of this reading over time that is very > > > important. > > > Fluke says that it could change as much as 10 ohms per month but mine > are > > > rock solid for years and years. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Randy Evans" > > > To: > > > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:08 AM > > > Subject: [volt-nuts] Fluke 732A themistor reading > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone tell me what value to expect for a Fluke 732A thermistor > > > > reading? I am looking to get a used 732A and one of the things I was > > > told > > > > to look for is to measure the thermistor reading after the unit has > > > heated > > > > up for at least an hour. I saw in one of the posts that a "typical" > > > > reading was 4950 ohms. One vendor I asked said he measured about > 3600 > > > ohms > > > > after a two hour warmup. I was concerned that this is too low. What > do > > > you > > > > guys think? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Randy > > > > ___ > > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > > > > To unsubscribe, go to > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > > > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > > ___ > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > > > To unsubscribe, go to > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > ___ > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for the display. Thanks, Randy On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold wrote: > You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C"CAL > 0,3458" "Enter". > > See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax. > > Bill > > - Original Message - > From: "Randy Evans" > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A > > > > Bill, > > > > You are very helpful and I really appreciate it. > > > > I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF > RANGE > > -- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are saying. I > > guess its no reason to panic yet. > > > > I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to open > it > > up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Randy > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold wrote: > > > > > Randy: > > > > > > You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a ACAL. > You > > > have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the ZERO > > > calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the factory > > > that > > > way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do this > from > > > the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a jumper > > > inside > > > the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can do > any > > > CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is working > as > > > expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505 or > > > 66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are > set > to > > > this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get > inside > of > > > the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers to > > > accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Randy Evans" > > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" > > > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM > > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel command > and > > > I > > > > get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do this > > > > correctly? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Randy > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Randy: > > > > > > > > > > Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make > yourself > a > > > "4 > > > > > Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown. > > > > > > > > > > Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After ACAL > I > > > now > > > > > read +000.2 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would expect > that > > > the > > > > > meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a > variation > > > of > > > > > +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. As I > > > remember > > > > > I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature. > > > > > > > > > > If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements with > 100 > > > PLC > > > > > the statistics show: > > > > > > > > > > Low reading-70 nVDC > > > > > Mean reading -28 nVDC > > > > > High reading+3.5 nVDC > > > > > Total Variation73 nVDC > > > > > > > > > > So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC. > After > an > > > > > hour > > > > > the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed -000.00023 > > > mVDC. > > > > > After another ACAL the reading was again +000.2 mVDC. This > > > particular > > > > > meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up. > > > > > > > > > > Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements > requiring > > > low > > > > > nanovolts. > > > > > > > > > > Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and > choose > > > > > "Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which is > the > > > > > replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the replacement > > > part > > > > > number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get the > > > > > information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like you > can > > > just > > > > > order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but you > have > > > to > > > > > create or use an existing login account. > > > > > > > > > > I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you could > > > order > > > > > just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at removing > and > > > then > > > > > inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was that > the > > > > > spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went from > > > around > > > > > 1.3 > > > > > inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 732A themistor reading
Randy, Next thing you know, you will be looking at a 10K standard resistor to go with that 3458A and possible 732A. Todd On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 3:51 PM, Randy Evans wrote: > Todd and Bill, > > Thanks for the input. The 3.6 K thermistor reading seems viable and i will > pursue it further. > > I may have over committed myself to modifying the HP-419A, the Fluke 845A, > buying the 3458A and looking at buying a Fluke 732A. > > So much to do and so little time. > > Thanks again, > > Randy > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:48 AM, Bill Gold wrote: > > > Randy: > > > > I have 6 ea Fluke 732A instruments. The results of being an over the > > edge and deeply obsessed "Volt Nut", they just kept adding (reproducing?) > > over the years. My readings for the themistors range from 3.407K OHMS to > > 4.514K OHMS and all work just fine. 3.6K OHMS would seem just fine to > me. > > It really depends upon the final inside temp of the oven assembly. The > one > > with 3.407K OHMS measures around 47.5 degrees C while the others are > around > > 45 C. It is the stability of this reading over time that is very > > important. > > Fluke says that it could change as much as 10 ohms per month but mine are > > rock solid for years and years. > > > > Bill > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Randy Evans" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:08 AM > > Subject: [volt-nuts] Fluke 732A themistor reading > > > > > > > Can anyone tell me what value to expect for a Fluke 732A thermistor > > > reading? I am looking to get a used 732A and one of the things I was > > told > > > to look for is to measure the thermistor reading after the unit has > > heated > > > up for at least an hour. I saw in one of the posts that a "typical" > > > reading was 4950 ohms. One vendor I asked said he measured about 3600 > > ohms > > > after a two hour warmup. I was concerned that this is too low. What do > > you > > > guys think? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Randy > > > ___ > > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > ___ > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 732A themistor reading
Randy I have had mine working non-stop for almost 1 year - its current reading is 4.51902 K ohms, it never deviates more than 0.150 ohms. Roy -Original Message- From: Randy Evans Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 8:51 PM To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 732A themistor reading Todd and Bill, Thanks for the input. The 3.6 K thermistor reading seems viable and i will pursue it further. I may have over committed myself to modifying the HP-419A, the Fluke 845A, buying the 3458A and looking at buying a Fluke 732A. So much to do and so little time. Thanks again, Randy On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:48 AM, Bill Gold wrote: Randy: I have 6 ea Fluke 732A instruments. The results of being an over the edge and deeply obsessed "Volt Nut", they just kept adding (reproducing?) over the years. My readings for the themistors range from 3.407K OHMS to 4.514K OHMS and all work just fine. 3.6K OHMS would seem just fine to me. It really depends upon the final inside temp of the oven assembly. The one with 3.407K OHMS measures around 47.5 degrees C while the others are around 45 C. It is the stability of this reading over time that is very important. Fluke says that it could change as much as 10 ohms per month but mine are rock solid for years and years. Bill - Original Message - From: "Randy Evans" To: Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:08 AM Subject: [volt-nuts] Fluke 732A themistor reading > Can anyone tell me what value to expect for a Fluke 732A thermistor > reading? I am looking to get a used 732A and one of the things I was told > to look for is to measure the thermistor reading after the unit has heated > up for at least an hour. I saw in one of the posts that a "typical" > reading was 4950 ohms. One vendor I asked said he measured about 3600 ohms > after a two hour warmup. I was concerned that this is too low. What do you > guys think? > > Thanks, > > Randy > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C"CAL 0,3458" "Enter". See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax. Bill - Original Message - From: "Randy Evans" To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A > Bill, > > You are very helpful and I really appreciate it. > > I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF RANGE > -- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are saying. I > guess its no reason to panic yet. > > I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to open it > up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers. > > Thanks, > > Randy > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold wrote: > > > Randy: > > > > You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a ACAL. You > > have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the ZERO > > calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the factory > > that > > way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do this from > > the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a jumper > > inside > > the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can do any > > CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is working as > > expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505 or > > 66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are set to > > this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get inside of > > the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers to > > accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual. > > > > Bill > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Randy Evans" > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" > > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel command and > > I > > > get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do this > > > correctly? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Randy > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold wrote: > > > > > > > Randy: > > > > > > > > Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make yourself a > > "4 > > > > Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown. > > > > > > > > Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After ACAL I > > now > > > > read +000.2 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would expect that > > the > > > > meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a variation > > of > > > > +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. As I > > remember > > > > I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature. > > > > > > > > If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements with 100 > > PLC > > > > the statistics show: > > > > > > > > Low reading-70 nVDC > > > > Mean reading -28 nVDC > > > > High reading+3.5 nVDC > > > > Total Variation73 nVDC > > > > > > > > So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC. After an > > > > hour > > > > the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed -000.00023 > > mVDC. > > > > After another ACAL the reading was again +000.2 mVDC. This > > particular > > > > meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up. > > > > > > > > Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements requiring > > low > > > > nanovolts. > > > > > > > > Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and choose > > > > "Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which is the > > > > replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the replacement > > part > > > > number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get the > > > > information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like you can > > just > > > > order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but you have > > to > > > > create or use an existing login account. > > > > > > > > I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you could > > order > > > > just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at removing and > > then > > > > inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was that the > > > > spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went from > > around > > > > 1.3 > > > > inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit my > > display > > > > board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the PC > > Board. > > > > It took hours. This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight doesn't > > let > > > > you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole PC > > Board > > > > assembly. It did work just fine once installed. > > > > > > > > Hope this helps your decision to keep or not. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > >
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 732A themistor reading
Todd and Bill, Thanks for the input. The 3.6 K thermistor reading seems viable and i will pursue it further. I may have over committed myself to modifying the HP-419A, the Fluke 845A, buying the 3458A and looking at buying a Fluke 732A. So much to do and so little time. Thanks again, Randy On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:48 AM, Bill Gold wrote: > Randy: > > I have 6 ea Fluke 732A instruments. The results of being an over the > edge and deeply obsessed "Volt Nut", they just kept adding (reproducing?) > over the years. My readings for the themistors range from 3.407K OHMS to > 4.514K OHMS and all work just fine. 3.6K OHMS would seem just fine to me. > It really depends upon the final inside temp of the oven assembly. The one > with 3.407K OHMS measures around 47.5 degrees C while the others are around > 45 C. It is the stability of this reading over time that is very > important. > Fluke says that it could change as much as 10 ohms per month but mine are > rock solid for years and years. > > Bill > > - Original Message - > From: "Randy Evans" > To: > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:08 AM > Subject: [volt-nuts] Fluke 732A themistor reading > > > > Can anyone tell me what value to expect for a Fluke 732A thermistor > > reading? I am looking to get a used 732A and one of the things I was > told > > to look for is to measure the thermistor reading after the unit has > heated > > up for at least an hour. I saw in one of the posts that a "typical" > > reading was 4950 ohms. One vendor I asked said he measured about 3600 > ohms > > after a two hour warmup. I was concerned that this is too low. What do > you > > guys think? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Randy > > ___ > > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Randy, I think there is a comma between the 0 and the password. Todd On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 3:25 PM, Randy Evans wrote: > Bill, > > You are very helpful and I really appreciate it. > > I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF RANGE > -- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are saying. I > guess its no reason to panic yet. > > ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Bill, You are very helpful and I really appreciate it. I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF RANGE -- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are saying. I guess its no reason to panic yet. I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to open it up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers. Thanks, Randy On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold wrote: > Randy: > > You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a ACAL. You > have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the ZERO > calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the factory > that > way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do this from > the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a jumper > inside > the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can do any > CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is working as > expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505 or > 66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are set to > this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get inside of > the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers to > accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual. > > Bill > > - Original Message - > From: "Randy Evans" > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A > > > > Bill, > > > > I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel command and > I > > get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do this > > correctly? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Randy > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold wrote: > > > > > Randy: > > > > > > Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make yourself a > "4 > > > Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown. > > > > > > Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After ACAL I > now > > > read +000.2 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would expect that > the > > > meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a variation > of > > > +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. As I > remember > > > I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature. > > > > > > If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements with 100 > PLC > > > the statistics show: > > > > > > Low reading-70 nVDC > > > Mean reading -28 nVDC > > > High reading+3.5 nVDC > > > Total Variation73 nVDC > > > > > > So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC. After an > > > hour > > > the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed -000.00023 > mVDC. > > > After another ACAL the reading was again +000.2 mVDC. This > particular > > > meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up. > > > > > > Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements requiring > low > > > nanovolts. > > > > > > Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and choose > > > "Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which is the > > > replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the replacement > part > > > number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get the > > > information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like you can > just > > > order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but you have > to > > > create or use an existing login account. > > > > > > I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you could > order > > > just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at removing and > then > > > inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was that the > > > spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went from > around > > > 1.3 > > > inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit my > display > > > board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the PC > Board. > > > It took hours. This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight doesn't > let > > > you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole PC > Board > > > assembly. It did work just fine once installed. > > > > > > Hope this helps your decision to keep or not. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Randy Evans" > > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" > > > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM > > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A > > > > > > > > > > Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F to 73F, > and > > > > another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more reasonable > > > value, > > > > although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV. > > > > > > > > Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to be the > > > display > > > > has
Re: [volt-nuts] Guildline 9578 / Solartron 7081 SchaffnerReplacement
Dave, Thanks for the heads up. I went ahead and verified that all pins matched the schematic by changing the cam to the four settings and all are as expected. The new cams have "230vac" printed on them and the old one has "220 vac". I went ahead and installed the old one to prevent any future issues should this meter end up outside the US someday. I will plan on getting a connector this week. The front panel input is also damaged. Kensington Electronics has all the parts in stock. Todd When you install the new filter, you may find you also need to move the > voltage selector cam from the old filter to the new one, as the new units > seem to have different cams and voltage values thereon. > > Regards, > David Partridge > > ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 732A themistor reading
Randy: I have 6 ea Fluke 732A instruments. The results of being an over the edge and deeply obsessed "Volt Nut", they just kept adding (reproducing?) over the years. My readings for the themistors range from 3.407K OHMS to 4.514K OHMS and all work just fine. 3.6K OHMS would seem just fine to me. It really depends upon the final inside temp of the oven assembly. The one with 3.407K OHMS measures around 47.5 degrees C while the others are around 45 C. It is the stability of this reading over time that is very important. Fluke says that it could change as much as 10 ohms per month but mine are rock solid for years and years. Bill - Original Message - From: "Randy Evans" To: Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:08 AM Subject: [volt-nuts] Fluke 732A themistor reading > Can anyone tell me what value to expect for a Fluke 732A thermistor > reading? I am looking to get a used 732A and one of the things I was told > to look for is to measure the thermistor reading after the unit has heated > up for at least an hour. I saw in one of the posts that a "typical" > reading was 4950 ohms. One vendor I asked said he measured about 3600 ohms > after a two hour warmup. I was concerned that this is too low. What do you > guys think? > > Thanks, > > Randy > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Randy: You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a ACAL. You have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the ZERO calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the factory that way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do this from the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a jumper inside the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can do any CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is working as expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505 or 66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are set to this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get inside of the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers to accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual. Bill - Original Message - From: "Randy Evans" To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A > Bill, > > I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel command and I > get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do this > correctly? > > Thanks, > > Randy > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold wrote: > > > Randy: > > > > Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make yourself a "4 > > Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown. > > > > Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After ACAL I now > > read +000.2 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would expect that the > > meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a variation of > > +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. As I remember > > I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature. > > > > If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements with 100 PLC > > the statistics show: > > > > Low reading-70 nVDC > > Mean reading -28 nVDC > > High reading+3.5 nVDC > > Total Variation73 nVDC > > > > So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC. After an > > hour > > the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed -000.00023 mVDC. > > After another ACAL the reading was again +000.2 mVDC. This particular > > meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up. > > > > Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements requiring low > > nanovolts. > > > > Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and choose > > "Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which is the > > replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the replacement part > > number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get the > > information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like you can just > > order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but you have to > > create or use an existing login account. > > > > I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you could order > > just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at removing and then > > inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was that the > > spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went from around > > 1.3 > > inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit my display > > board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the PC Board. > > It took hours. This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight doesn't let > > you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole PC Board > > assembly. It did work just fine once installed. > > > > Hope this helps your decision to keep or not. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Randy Evans" > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" > > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A > > > > > > > Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F to 73F, and > > > another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more reasonable > > value, > > > although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV. > > > > > > Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to be the > > display > > > has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix. > > > > > > Randy > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue. After doing > > an > > > > ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the input leads > > with > > a > > > > copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is approximately > > > > -000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect the unit to > > short > > > > the input leads internally and force a zero reading during the ACAL. > > > > Anyone have any comments on this reading? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Randy > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 732A themistor reading
Randy, Two of mine read in the 3.7-3.8K range, another reads in the 4.2K range. It is a good sign if the reading dropped in a few hours after turn-on. I believe the lower thermistor readings indicate the older 732A oven. Some minor changes were made and both manuals are available on Didier's site. Verify that the 1V and 1.018V outputs are functioning as well as the 10V obviously. There have been a few sold recently on eBay with one or both of the 1V outputs reading low or dead. Todd On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Randy Evans wrote: > Can anyone tell me what value to expect for a Fluke 732A thermistor > reading? I am looking to get a used 732A and one of the things I was told > to look for is to measure the thermistor reading after the unit has heated > up for at least an hour. I saw in one of the posts that a "typical" > reading was 4950 ohms. One vendor I asked said he measured about 3600 ohms > after a two hour warmup. I was concerned that this is too low. What do you > guys think? > > Thanks, > > Randy > ___ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Bill, I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel command and I get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do this correctly? Thanks, Randy On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold wrote: > Randy: > > Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make yourself a "4 > Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown. > > Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After ACAL I now > read +000.2 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would expect that the > meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a variation of > +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. As I remember > I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature. > > If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements with 100 PLC > the statistics show: > > Low reading-70 nVDC > Mean reading -28 nVDC > High reading+3.5 nVDC > Total Variation73 nVDC > > So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC. After an > hour > the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed -000.00023 mVDC. > After another ACAL the reading was again +000.2 mVDC. This particular > meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up. > > Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements requiring low > nanovolts. > > Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and choose > "Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which is the > replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the replacement part > number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get the > information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like you can just > order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but you have to > create or use an existing login account. > > I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you could order > just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at removing and then > inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was that the > spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went from around > 1.3 > inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit my display > board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the PC Board. > It took hours. This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight doesn't let > you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole PC Board > assembly. It did work just fine once installed. > > Hope this helps your decision to keep or not. > > Bill > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Randy Evans" > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A > > > > Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F to 73F, and > > another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more reasonable > value, > > although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV. > > > > Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to be the > display > > has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix. > > > > Randy > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans > > wrote: > > > > > > > > The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue. After doing > an > > > ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the input leads > with > a > > > copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is approximately > > > -000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect the unit to > short > > > the input leads internally and force a zero reading during the ACAL. > > > Anyone have any comments on this reading? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Randy > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on your > measurements > > >> of DCV and precision 10k resistor. > > >> > > >> Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision measurements, > and > > >> I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last use. The > autocal > > >> uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do cal on > everything > > >> else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is. I just got my > 3458 > > >> back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me -- warmed it up, > then > > >> ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke 5700, aided by > an > HP > > >> 3325, and another 3458. > > >> > > >> It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board (no "exchange" > > >> deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's changed) and > also > the > > >> NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap RAM chips. I > did > > >> those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was complete, > since > > >> all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed all incoming > > >> performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal process of any > > >> kind. This tells me that an old, w
[volt-nuts] Fluke 732A themistor reading
Can anyone tell me what value to expect for a Fluke 732A thermistor reading? I am looking to get a used 732A and one of the things I was told to look for is to measure the thermistor reading after the unit has heated up for at least an hour. I saw in one of the posts that a "typical" reading was 4950 ohms. One vendor I asked said he measured about 3600 ohms after a two hour warmup. I was concerned that this is too low. What do you guys think? Thanks, Randy ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Randy: Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make yourself a "4 Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown. Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After ACAL I now read +000.2 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would expect that the meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a variation of +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. As I remember I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature. If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements with 100 PLC the statistics show: Low reading-70 nVDC Mean reading -28 nVDC High reading+3.5 nVDC Total Variation73 nVDC So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC. After an hour the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed -000.00023 mVDC. After another ACAL the reading was again +000.2 mVDC. This particular meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up. Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements requiring low nanovolts. Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and choose "Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which is the replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the replacement part number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get the information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like you can just order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but you have to create or use an existing login account. I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you could order just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at removing and then inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was that the spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went from around 1.3 inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit my display board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the PC Board. It took hours. This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight doesn't let you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole PC Board assembly. It did work just fine once installed. Hope this helps your decision to keep or not. Bill - Original Message - From: "Randy Evans" To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A > Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F to 73F, and > another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more reasonable value, > although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV. > > Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to be the display > has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix. > > Randy > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans > wrote: > > > > > The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue. After doing an > > ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the input leads with a > > copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is approximately > > -000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect the unit to short > > the input leads internally and force a zero reading during the ACAL. > > Anyone have any comments on this reading? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Randy > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore > > wrote: > > > >> Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on your measurements > >> of DCV and precision 10k resistor. > >> > >> Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision measurements, and > >> I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last use. The autocal > >> uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do cal on everything > >> else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is. I just got my 3458 > >> back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me -- warmed it up, then > >> ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke 5700, aided by an HP > >> 3325, and another 3458. > >> > >> It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board (no "exchange" > >> deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's changed) and also the > >> NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap RAM chips. I did > >> those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was complete, since > >> all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed all incoming > >> performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal process of any > >> kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module is a good thing. The > >> 10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly 1ppm/year. > >> > >> They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for it -- and that > >> saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal lasts until > >> mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under $400 including > >> shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or first-time cals; my > >> unit was in their data bank. > >> > >> But
Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Randy I would guess that your display is almost certainly 'on its way out'. I had a new display fitted to my 3458A earlier this year and the difference is astounding. The display is of the vacuum-fluorescent type, and they will deteriorate over time, especially if your instrument was used in a Lab. for 24/7 - and many had been. As I live in the UK, I am not able to give you a price as it was a 'package deal' - but I'm sure you get better deal in the US. Roy -Original Message- From: Randy Evans Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 6:36 AM To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F to 73F, and another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more reasonable value, although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV. Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to be the display has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix. Randy On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans wrote: The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue. After doing an ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the input leads with a copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is approximately -000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect the unit to short the input leads internally and force a zero reading during the ACAL. Anyone have any comments on this reading? Thanks, Randy On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore wrote: Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on your measurements of DCV and precision 10k resistor. Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision measurements, and I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last use. The autocal uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do cal on everything else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is. I just got my 3458 back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me -- warmed it up, then ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke 5700, aided by an HP 3325, and another 3458. It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board (no "exchange" deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's changed) and also the NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap RAM chips. I did those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was complete, since all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed all incoming performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal process of any kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module is a good thing. The 10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly 1ppm/year. They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for it -- and that saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal lasts until mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under $400 including shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or first-time cals; my unit was in their data bank. But this is a long way of saying I don't think you need to send it for cal -- just push Auto Cal and Enter and wait about 10 minutes and you should be good to go. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] Guildline 9578 / Solartron 7081 Schaffner Replacement
Only one shorting plug is needed. Regards, David Partridge -Original Message- From: volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Todd Micallef Sent: 17 August 2014 02:29 To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: [volt-nuts] Guildline 9578 / Solartron 7081 Schaffner Replacement >I just need to know if I need two of the S104A053 connectors for shorting the front and rear , or can I get away with just one? ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] Guildline 9578 / Solartron 7081 SchaffnerReplacement
When you install the new filter, you may find you also need to move the voltage selector cam from the old filter to the new one, as the new units seem to have different cams and voltage values thereon. Regards, David Partridge -Original Message- From: volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Todd Micallef Sent: 17 August 2014 04:38 To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Guildline 9578 / Solartron 7081 SchaffnerReplacement Never mind, I looked in the 7061 service manual and found the resistor. Is there a recommended type of resistor for use across mains? I am thinking the carbon comp resistor should be replaced with a metal glazed film type or anything listed as flame proof. Todd ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
