[Vo]:testing the Amish heater

[thomas malloy]

Stephen A. Lawrence wrote:


a) Do you have a link to it?

b) How much energy does the hypothetical coffee maker draw?  "1 coffee
maker" is a nonstandard unit and it's hard to compare it with 5 kW.


Jeff Fink wrote:
 


I have been seeing ads for a portable plug in electric fire place that
uses as much electricity as a kitchen coffee maker but puts out 5000
watts of heat.  Has anybody checked this out from an o.u. perspective? 
   

A coffee maker takes about 1900 watts, This ties up a 20 Amp circuit. If 
the heater's out put is anywhere near 5 KW heat out put, you can resolve 
the matter.


 You can test this machine in the following manner. Amp meters are for 
sale in stores like Home Depot. Get an amplifier, this plugs into the 
power supply. The load plugs into it, and the amp meter hooks into the 
amplifier which makes the amp meter read 10 times higher, which improves 
it accuracy. Find a metallic container with a metallic pot that fits 
inside it. place the heater in a metallic container and wrap a bat of 
fiberglass insulation around it. place a container of water on the top. 
Use a scale to determine an quantity of water and ice, allow most of the 
ice to melt. Put this thing together and allow the pot of water to sit 
on the heater for a period of time and monitor it's temperature with a 
thermometer. Report the results, and we'll do the math.



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[Vo]:testing the Amish heater

[thomas malloy]

Stephen A. Lawrence wrote:


a) Do you have a link to it?

b) How much energy does the hypothetical coffee maker draw?  "1 coffee
maker" is a nonstandard unit and it's hard to compare it with 5 kW.


Jeff Fink wrote:
 


I have been seeing ads for a portable plug in electric fire place that
uses as much electricity as a kitchen coffee maker but puts out 5000
watts of heat.  Has anybody checked this out from an o.u. perspective? 
   

A coffee maker takes about 1900 watts, This ties up a 20 Amp circuit. If 
the heater's out put is anywhere near 5 KW heat out put, you can resolve 
the matter.


 You can test this machine in the following manner. Amp meters are for 
sale in stores like Home Depot. Get an amplifier, this plugs into the 
power supply. The load plugs into it, and the amp meter hooks into the 
amplifier which makes the amp meter read 10 times higher, which improves 
it accuracy. Find a metallic container with a metallic pot that fits 
inside it. place the heater in a metallic container and wrap a bat of 
fiberglass insulation around it. place a container of water on the top. 
Use a scale to determine an quantity of water and ice, allow most of the 
ice to melt. Put this thing together and allow the pot of water to sit 
on the heater for a period of time and monitor it's temperature with a 
thermometer. Report the results, and we'll do the math.



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Re: [Vo]:Magnetized Target Fusion

[thomas malloy]

Horace Heffner wrote:



On Dec 26, 2008, at 7:06 AM, Terry Blanton wrote:


General Fusion offers a twist on LANL's research by using spherical
force focusing reminiscent of Fat Man's explosives:

http://www.popsci.com/node/3051


If you continue reading the article to here you find a most  
provocative statement:


 The U.S. Department of Energy all but called them  frauds. In 2002, 
Taleyarkhan published a paper stating that he had  used ultrasonic 
vibrations to make bubbles in a liquid solvent and  that, when the 
bubbles collapsed, they had created fusion. His  results, too, would 
later be discredited, and last year he was  stripped of his university 
chair."


IMHO, the suppression continues.


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Re: [Vo]:Crossties on Mars

[thomas malloy]

Horace Heffner wrote:



On Dec 26, 2008, at 9:19 AM, Terry Blanton wrote:


Well they *look* like crossties:
http://thecrit.com/2008/08/05/nasa-mars-photo-leaked-wood-found-on- 
mars/




Take a look at an original photo at:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/n/ 
119/1N138745027EFF2809P1987R0M1.HTML


I clicked on the NASA link and got an access denied error message. Well, 
never a straight answer, eh?




http://tinyurl.com/2wdbqr

Which is enlarged at:

http://tinyurl.com/9z9wm6

I clicked on the tinyurl link and saw some odd looking slabs. I saw a 
white point in the distance, but I couldn't make out any detail. What's 
the interesting object?



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Re: [Vo]:SHERMER BITES/Dog bites man; Michael Shermer attacks cold fusion

[Horace Heffner]

On Dec 27, 2008, at 6:51 PM, thomas malloy wrote:


Harbach Jak wrote:


* * * SHERMER: This psuedo-intellect is a TRUE-BELIEVERIST in his
 personal RELIGION which is DEBUNKERISM masquerading as HEALTHY




Shermer used to be a Christian, but rejected it in favor of  
Skepticism. I heard him debate the creationist, Dr. Dino. The  
doctor, IMHO, mopped the floor with him. When he told her about the  
coming debate, his daughter told him, "you're going to lose." The  
debate was sponsored by a Christian Talk station, so I guess that  
stands to reason that the crowd would not appreciate his ideas.


He used to send copies of his magazine to Otto Schmitt who regarded  
it with contempt.


Well, that makes it conclusive.  Harbach Jak has passed the Turing Test.


Best regards,

Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/

Re: [Vo]:SHERMER BITES/Dog bites man; Michael Shermer attacks cold fusion

[Horace Heffner]

On Dec 27, 2008, at 6:51 PM, thomas malloy wrote:


Harbach Jak wrote:


* * * SHERMER: This psuedo-intellect is a TRUE-BELIEVERIST in his
 personal RELIGION which is DEBUNKERISM masquerading as HEALTHY




Shermer used to be a Christian, but rejected it in favor of  
Skepticism. I heard him debate the creationist, Dr. Dino. The  
doctor, IMHO, mopped the floor with him. When he told her about the  
coming debate, his daughter told him, "you're going to lose." The  
debate was sponsored by a Christian Talk station, so I guess that  
stands to reason that the crowd would not appreciate his ideas.


He used to send copies of his magazine to Otto Schmitt who regarded  
it with contempt.


Well, that makes it conclusive.  Harbach Jak has passed the Touring  
Test.



Best regards,

Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/

Re: [Vo]:New prospective matrix material for high temp LENR

[R C Macaulay]

Howdy Horace,
A scientist with Rice University Houston has reported developing a carbon 
matrix . I am searching for it on the web, previously reported in the 
Houston Chronicle. He is searching for ways to increase the storage of data 
but I think it has application within the LENR community.
Richard 

Re: [Vo]:SHERMER BITES/Dog bites man; Michael Shermer attacks cold fusion

[thomas malloy]

Harbach Jak wrote:


* * * SHERMER: This psuedo-intellect is a TRUE-BELIEVERIST in his
 
personal RELIGION which is DEBUNKERISM masquerading as HEALTHY
 



Shermer used to be a Christian, but rejected it in favor of Skepticism. 
I heard him debate the creationist, Dr. Dino. The doctor, IMHO, mopped 
the floor with him. When he told her about the coming debate, his 
daughter told him, "you're going to lose." The debate was sponsored by a 
Christian Talk station, so I guess that stands to reason that the crowd 
would not appreciate his ideas.


He used to send copies of his magazine to Otto Schmitt who regarded it 
with contempt.



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Re: [Vo]:Amish heater

[leaking pen]

mines rated at drawing 1200,

and i just watched the commercial, they say btu, not watts.

On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 4:26 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
> Jeff Fink wrote:
>
>>
>> On the other hand, a 900 watt space
>> heater will not do effective heating in any but the smallest rooms.
>
> Actually, this is enough to keep a small bedroom livable in Atlanta when the
> power fails. It is way better than nothing.
>
>
>>
>>  Have
>> you ever noticed that your coffee maker was heating up your kitchen?
>> Neither have I.
>
> The coffee maker only draws 900 W at peak when the coffee is brewing, for 5
> minutes or so. The standby heater under the pot is around 50 W I think.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Bad predictions for 2008

[R C Macaulay]

Howdy Horace,
In the interest of science and creativity, Let's have everyone's prediction 
for year 2009.  Keep it to a single prediction please. Please also keep your 
predictions factually, easily proven by facts.


Richard's prediction for 2009.. all history books will be revised to state 
that while Santa Ana lost the battle.. he actually the war for Texas as 
being demonstrated conclusively  by year 2008. 

[Vo]:New prospective matrix material for high temp LENR

[Horace Heffner]

Given Be can be a major ingredient, this stuff is a prime candidate  
for LENR excess heat.


Related PhD thesis:

"Designing Bulk Metallic Glass Matrix Composites with High Toughness  
and Tensile Ductility"


by Douglas Clayton Hofmann

http://etd.caltech.edu/etd/available/etd-09102008-101837/unrestricted/ 
Hofmann_PhD.pdf


http://tinyurl.com/9m5nw5

From abstract at:

http://etd.caltech.edu/etd/available/etd-09102008-101837/

"Metallic glasses have been the subject of intense scientific study  
since the 1960s, owing to their unique properties such as high  
strength, large elastic limit, high hardness, and amorphous  
microstructure. However, bulk metallic glasses have not been used in  
the high strength structural applications for which they have so much  
potential, owing to a highly localized failure mechanism that results  
in catastrophic failure during unconfined loading. In this thesis,  
bulk metallic glass matrix composites are designed with the combined  
benefits of high yield strengths and tensile ductility. This  
milestone is achieved by first investigating the length scale of the  
highly localized deformation, known as shear bands, that governs  
fracture in all metallic glasses. Under unconfined loading, a shear  
band grows to a certain length that is dependent on the fracture  
toughness of the glass before a crack nucleates and fracture occurs.  
Increasing the fracture toughness and ductility involves adding  
microstructural stabilization techniques that prevent shear bands  
from lengthening and promotes formation of multiple shear bands. To  
accomplish this, we develop in-situ formed bulk metallic glass matrix- 
composites with soft crystalline dendrites whose size and  
distribution are controlled through a novel semi-solid processing  
technique. The new alloys have a dramatically increased room- 
temperature ductility and a fracture toughness that appears to be  
similar to the toughest steels. Owing to their low modulus, the  
composites are therefore among the toughest known materials, a claim  
that has recently been confirmed independently by a fracture  
mechanics group. We extend our toughening strategy to a titanium- 
vanadium-based glass-dendrite composite system with density as low as  
4.97 g/cm[...]. The new low-density composites rival the mechanical  
properties of the best structural crystalline Ti alloys. We  
demonstrate new processing techniques available in the highly  
toughened composites: room temperature cold rolling, work hardening,  
and thermoplastic forming. This thesis is a proven road map for  
developing metallic glass composites into real structural engineering  
materials."



Best regards,

Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/

[Vo]:OFF TOPIC Somali Pirates in Discussions to Acquire Citigroup

[Jed Rothwell]

Here is a story that ties together some of the outstanding themes of 2008.

- Jed

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Somali Pirates in Discussions to Acquire Citigroup

November 20 (Bloomberg) -- The Somali pirates, renegade Somalis known for
hijacking ships for ransom in the Gulf of Aden, are negotiating a purchase
of Citigroup.

The pirates would buy Citigroup with new debt and their existing cash
stockpiles, earned most recently from hijacking numerous ships, including
most recently a $200 million Saudi Arabian oil tanker. The Somali pirates
are offering up to $0.10 per share for Citigroup, pirate spokesman Sugule
Ali said earlier today. The negotiations have entered the final stage, Ali
said.

"You may not like our price, but we are not in the business of paying for
things. Be happy we are in the mood to offer the shareholders anything,"
said Ali.

The pirates will finance part of the purchase by selling new Pirate Ransom
Backed Securities. The PRBS's are backed by the cash flows from future
ransom payments from hijackings in the Gulf of Aden. Moody's and S&P have
already issued their top investment grade ratings for the PRBS's.

Head pirate, Ubu Kalid Shandu, said: "We need a bank so that we have a place
to keep all of our ransom money. Thankfully, the dislocations in the capital
markets has allowed us to purchase Citigroup at an attractive valuation and
to take advantage of TARP capital to grow the business even faster."

Shandu added, "We don't call ourselves pirates. We are coastguards and this
will just allow us to guard our coasts better."

[Vo]:New prospective matrix material for high temp LENR

[Horace Heffner]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081219172129.htm

http://tinyurl.com/9a648r

Excess energy available from various reactions, including Ti + p and  
Ti+ D. It would be interesting to test this material in powdered and  
thin film form, though high tunneling rates probably have to be  
maintained via thermal gradients and pressure gradients, which are  
easier to maintain in bulk volumes.


Best regards,

Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/

Re: [Vo]:Amish heater

[Jed Rothwell]

Jeff Fink wrote:


> On the other hand, a 900 watt space
> heater will not do effective heating in any but the smallest rooms.


Actually, this is enough to keep a small bedroom livable in Atlanta when the
power fails. It is way better than nothing.



>  Have
> you ever noticed that your coffee maker was heating up your kitchen?
> Neither have I.


The coffee maker only draws 900 W at peak when the coffee is brewing, for 5
minutes or so. The standby heater under the pot is around 50 W I think.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Amish heater

[Mike Carrell]

As far as I can tell, it is a 1500 watt heater with a transverse flow blower 
at the top, which can quietly project a laminar flow of warm across a room. 
It is much more effective than a circular fan. It has has a decorative flame 
effect. And, like Smucker's jam, with a name like Amish, it's got to be 
good.


Mike Carrell 

Re: [Vo]:Amish heater

[leaking pen]

its a goof up between watts and btus, and according to their own
specs, its 1500 watts.  and yes, if you go to their website, they
suggest moving it from room to room with you "spot heating" as how you
save money.

On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Jeff Fink  wrote:
> The TV spot said 5000 watts.  Pehaps the ad writer sees no difference
> between watts and btu's.
>
> You could never tap a 110vac outlet for 5000 watts of power without tripping
> the 15A or 20A breaker immediately.  On the other hand, a 900 watt space
> heater will not do effective heating in any but the smallest rooms.  Have
> you ever noticed that your coffee maker was heating up your kitchen?
> Neither have I.
>
> So, we either have false and erroneous advertizing, or some company slipped
> a cold fusion device into the market place under every ones radar.
>
> Jeff
>
> -Original Message-
> From: leaking pen [mailto:itsat...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 1:50 PM
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Amish heater
>
> Looking up online, it uses 1500 watts, and claims 5119 btus.  so, just
> about 100 percent efficiency in making heat, but most electric heaters
> are that efficient.
>
> On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Jed Rothwell 
> wrote:
>> Jeff Fink  wrote:
>>>
>>> I have been seeing ads for a portable plug in electric fire place that
>>> uses as much electricity as a kitchen coffee maker but puts out 5000
> watts
>>> of heat.  Has anybody checked this out from an o.u. perspective?
>>
>> Coffee makers consume ~900 W. If this thing puts out 5,000 W at high
>> temperature it would be a cinch to make it into a perpetual motion
> machine.
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Amish heater

[Jeff Fink]

The TV spot said 5000 watts.  Pehaps the ad writer sees no difference
between watts and btu's. 

You could never tap a 110vac outlet for 5000 watts of power without tripping
the 15A or 20A breaker immediately.  On the other hand, a 900 watt space
heater will not do effective heating in any but the smallest rooms.  Have
you ever noticed that your coffee maker was heating up your kitchen?
Neither have I.

So, we either have false and erroneous advertizing, or some company slipped
a cold fusion device into the market place under every ones radar.

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: leaking pen [mailto:itsat...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 1:50 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Amish heater

Looking up online, it uses 1500 watts, and claims 5119 btus.  so, just
about 100 percent efficiency in making heat, but most electric heaters
are that efficient.

On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Jed Rothwell 
wrote:
> Jeff Fink  wrote:
>>
>> I have been seeing ads for a portable plug in electric fire place that
>> uses as much electricity as a kitchen coffee maker but puts out 5000
watts
>> of heat.  Has anybody checked this out from an o.u. perspective?
>
> Coffee makers consume ~900 W. If this thing puts out 5,000 W at high
> temperature it would be a cinch to make it into a perpetual motion
machine.
>
> - Jed
>
>

[Vo]:Bad predictions for 2008

[Horace Heffner]

Here are some doozies:

http://www.financialarmageddon.com/2008/12/in-the-realm-of-shilldom- 
and-the-criminally-corrupt.html#comments


http://tinyurl.com/9z9wm6

The original source:

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/dec2008/ 
db20081224_028134_page_2.htm


http://tinyurl.com/8l4b5f

Best regards,

Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/

Re: [Vo]:Amish heater

[leaking pen]

Looking up online, it uses 1500 watts, and claims 5119 btus.  so, just
about 100 percent efficiency in making heat, but most electric heaters
are that efficient.

On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
> Jeff Fink  wrote:
>>
>> I have been seeing ads for a portable plug in electric fire place that
>> uses as much electricity as a kitchen coffee maker but puts out 5000 watts
>> of heat.  Has anybody checked this out from an o.u. perspective?
>
> Coffee makers consume ~900 W. If this thing puts out 5,000 W at high
> temperature it would be a cinch to make it into a perpetual motion machine.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Amish heater

[Jed Rothwell]

Jeff Fink  wrote:

>  I have been seeing ads for a portable plug in electric fire place that
> uses as much electricity as a kitchen coffee maker but puts out 5000 watts
> of heat.  Has anybody checked this out from an o.u. perspective?
>
Coffee makers consume ~900 W. If this thing puts out 5,000 W at high
temperature it would be a cinch to make it into a perpetual motion machine.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Amish heater

[Terry Blanton]

Actually, they are not selling the heater, they're selling the mantle.

http://todstrohblog.blogspot.com/2008/01/miracle.html

http://www.electricfireplacesdirect.com/EFD/amish-fireplace-v2.html?gclid=COyt2PSQ4ZcCFQWcnAodI3NkCw

http://snipurl.com/95ui6

If you want the 1500 W heater alone, you can get it here:

http://www.heatsurge.com/electric-fireplaces.cfm

But you can get a mantel (sic) for the same price as the heater and
the heater is free!

Such a deal!

Terry

On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 10:26 AM, Jeff Fink  wrote:
> I have been seeing ads for a portable plug in electric fire place that uses
> as much electricity as a kitchen coffee maker but puts out 5000 watts of
> heat.  Has anybody checked this out from an o.u. perspective?
>
>
>
> Jeff

[Vo]:Toyota Concept EV

[Terry Blanton]

http://www.freep.com/article/20081223/BUSINESS01/81223038

Toyota's electric car smaller than Prius

By BRENT SNAVELY • FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER • December 23, 2008

Toyota said today that a battery electric car concept that will debut
at the 2009 North American International Auto show will be smaller
than its Toyota Prius hybrid vehicle.

"This is a pure electric vehicle," said Toyota spokeswoman Jana
Hartline. "It's a concept we are bringing to the show basically to
confirm our interest in electric vehicles."

But while Toyota is planning two press conferences at the auto show,
Hartline said it does not plan on holding a press conference to
discuss the battery electric vehicle. Instead, it will simply be on
display on the show floor.

Toyota plans to hold two press conferences during the Detroit auto
show: One for Lexus on Jan. 11 and another for Toyota on Jan. 12 where
it will unveil its redesigned Toyota Prius.

The automaker has said that the all-new Prius will feature a
substantially revised hybrid powertrain system that will deliver
improved mileage, improved performance and a host of innovative new
features.

Toyota also confirmed that Toyota Motor Corp. President Katsuaki
Watanabe no longer plans to attend the auto show in Detroit. Watanabe
has attended the auto show in Detroit for the past several years.

Watanabe is no longer planning to attend "because of pressing needs,
both financially and planning-wise, in Japan," Toyota spokesman Curt
McCallister said in an e-mail. However, McCallister stressed that
several executives from Toyota do plan to attend the show to answer
media inquires.

Re: [Vo]:Amish heater

[Stephen A. Lawrence]

a) Do you have a link to it?

b) How much energy does the hypothetical coffee maker draw?  "1 coffee
maker" is a nonstandard unit and it's hard to compare it with 5 kW.



Jeff Fink wrote:
> I have been seeing ads for a portable plug in electric fire place that
> uses as much electricity as a kitchen coffee maker but puts out 5000
> watts of heat.  Has anybody checked this out from an o.u. perspective? 
> 
>  
> 
> Jeff
> 

[Vo]:Amish heater

[Jeff Fink]

I have been seeing ads for a portable plug in electric fire place that uses
as much electricity as a kitchen coffee maker but puts out 5000 watts of
heat.  Has anybody checked this out from an o.u. perspective?  

 

Jeff

Re: [Vo]:Where is the Mills discussion group? And CMNS?

[Terry Blanton]

Thanks, Ron!

Jed, note the URL from Ron.  He must have his "reply to" set to his
email address since the reply went off list accidently.

Terry

On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Ron Wormus  wrote:
> Here's the link from the bottom of one of the posts:
> 
> Seems to work.
> Ron
>
> --On Friday, December 26, 2008 3:49 PM -0500 Terry Blanton
>  wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I thought so; but, when I go to:
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scqm/
>>
>> or
>>
>> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/scqm/
>>
>> I get:
>>
>> "Group Not Found
>> There is no group called scqm. Please make sure you typed the web
>> address correctly. If you have done so, the group may no longer
>> exist."
>>
>> Do I have the URL right?
>>
>> Terry
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Ron Wormus  wrote:
>>>
>>> There were posts on SCQM as recently as a week ago & the moderator said
>>> he
>>> was going to be away for the holidays so I believe it is still a working
>>> forum.
>>> Ron
>>>
>>> --On Friday, December 26, 2008 2:30 PM -0500 Terry Blanton
>>>  wrote:
>>>
 Randell's yahoo group, SCQM, no longer exists.

 I am not aware of a condensed matter group on either yahoo or google.

 Terry

 On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Jed Rothwell 
 wrote:
>
> Where is the sign-up information for the Mills discussion group?
> Someone
> asked me this. I do not know, and I am not interested in joining, but I
> would like to have this information on file. I do not even know the
> name
> of
> it . . .
>
> Also, how & where do you sign up for the CMNS group? The messages say
> they
> are from "c...@googlegroups.com" but I do not find anything about it at
> Google.
>
> - Jed
>
>


>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>