Re: [Vo]: Water vortex footage
anyone had any luck hunting down a di gital version of the pöpel report? (Pöpel, Franz Rapport Berich über die Voruntersuchnungen mit Wendelrohren mit verschniedener Wandform International Report, Institut für Gesundheitstechnik, Institute of Technology in Stuttgart, 1952. surely any university dealing with vortical flow mechanics (or self-organizing flow technology) could benefit from replicating and proving/disproving this phenomenon. On 23/03/07, Esa Ruoho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 23/03/07, thomas malloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some of the footage was shot down the street at our U of M. I'm Just watching that NOVA program gave me a lot of ideas for building more water vortex generators. I was particularly impressed with the implosion of the tiny bubbles, which caused a water hammer effect. It amazes me that air bubbles can be both suddenly created and suddenly collapsed like that. I've considered going to that lab and talking to the professors. They clearly have the ability to generate powerful vortexes in water. Do you have some ideas for experiments that you'd like to try? it would be amazing to find out what kind of results you get when applying a sonic frequency to the water during the process of creating a vortex. ...if there is a way of measuring what happens to the sonic frequency the water is conducting, when the water is forced into a vortex. also if they could find a way of going through the Prof. Pöpel Report and replicating those experiments using their technology to verify whether a vortical movement of water results in negative friction. (Pöpel, Franz Rapport Berich über die Voruntersuchnungen mit Wendelrohren mit verschniedener Wandform International Report, Institut für Gesundheitstechnik, Institute of Technology in Stuttgart, 1952.
Re: [Vo]: Water vortex footage
yes, this is the basic principles of sympathetic vibratory physics lecture of dale pond - where he expounds on john keely, cavitation, waterhammer effect, implosion, and the resonance/SVP principles of what exactly happened with acoustic cavitation + resonance based disassociation with john keelys machines. this can be brought into viktor schauberger and vortex technology easily also. enjoy! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9125003792513982191 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5430570751600484561 On 24/03/07, Terry Blanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/24/07, Esa Ruoho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: linking gmail isnt quite gonna do it. try again! :) Okay, how's this :-) http://snipurl.com/mf6j http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9125003792513982191q=dale+pondhl=en
Re: [Vo]: Water vortex footage
On Apr 16, 2007, at 1:48 PM, Esa Ruoho wrote: anyone had any luck hunting down a di gital version of the pöpel report? (Pöpel, Franz Rapport Berich über die Voruntersuchnungen mit Wendelrohren mit verschniedener Wandform International Report, Institut für Gesundheitstechnik, Institute of Technology in Stuttgart, 1952. I spent a while, and pestered many a librarian - some of whom for which English was not their first language. Two people searching the university of Stuttgart could not find it, and offered that it may have been lost. I've wondered if Callum Coats has an original, though I seem to remember discussing the matter with Curt Halberg and he offering that a copy wasn't in Coat's possession. I never received word from Jorg Schauberger. I would try him if I were to again be looking. Sadly, it didn't seem too unreasonable that a library would loose a copy of an old technical report, unpublished by formal journals. Still, it would be a notable loss in this case. Someone today will have to reproduce the work! Zak
Re: [Vo]: Water vortex footage
have you tried getting in touch with klaus rauber of http://www.implosion-ev.de/ ? also, have you tried calling the PKS? it is open on wednesdays i believe 10am to 2pm (hmm, gmt+1? not sure) the info might be at http://www.viktorschauberger.at/ regarding klaus rauber - i have a german documentary where he shows new pictures that look almost similar to the pöpel report pictures in callum coats energy evolution book (which has the pöpel report as an addition right at the end). but it would be great to hook up the original tests, just to .. well, have them. if i get to IWONE3 in höör,malmö,sweden, i could try and ask klaus rauber and curt hallberg - however thats in august, and im still not 100% if i can afford to go to it. On 17/04/07, Zachary Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 16, 2007, at 1:48 PM, Esa Ruoho wrote: anyone had any luck hunting down a di gital version of the pöpel report? (Pöpel, Franz Rapport Berich über die Voruntersuchnungen mit Wendelrohren mit verschniedener Wandform International Report, Institut für Gesundheitstechnik, Institute of Technology in Stuttgart, 1952. I spent a while, and pestered many a librarian - some of whom for which English was not their first language. Two people searching the university of Stuttgart could not find it, and offered that it may have been lost. I've wondered if Callum Coats has an original, though I seem to remember discussing the matter with Curt Halberg and he offering that a copy wasn't in Coat's possession. I never received word from Jorg Schauberger. I would try him if I were to again be looking. Sadly, it didn't seem too unreasonable that a library would loose a copy of an old technical report, unpublished by formal journals. Still, it would be a notable loss in this case. Someone today will have to reproduce the work! Zak
Re: [Vo]: Water vortex footage
On 3/24/07, Esa Ruoho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: oh and by the way, regarding waterhammer/cavitation, i really recommend hunting down the 2 hour documentary from dale pond (the basics of sympathetic vibratory physics (SVP)) Would this be it: http://snipurl.com/b3tl http://mail.google.com/mail/?auth=DQAAAHIApkNZxuMcXdo-zzKnrKX1K_0WglE1_ue9jLvIEkQ9y6HS00l5wpSAjr_nEzlTRfK7MWzqWSjD3JNlqPP6RQIuymvFhalh6rY0Bk3tunRC52vMg8lNy8sZdEQalCox4vUK5UXc9rf-bIr2CM-cxDBXhVb0gGWVrJ-gF4qhu9UJuwzx=yo8ei5lmjn3yshva=1 Terry
Re: [Vo]: Water vortex footage
linking gmail isnt quite gonna do it. try again! :) On 24/03/07, Terry Blanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/24/07, Esa Ruoho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: oh and by the way, regarding waterhammer/cavitation, i really recommend hunting down the 2 hour documentary from dale pond (the basics of sympathetic vibratory physics (SVP)) Would this be it: http://snipurl.com/b3tl http://mail.google.com/mail/?auth=DQAAAHIApkNZxuMcXdo-zzKnrKX1K_0WglE1_ue9jLvIEkQ9y6HS00l5wpSAjr_nEzlTRfK7MWzqWSjD3JNlqPP6RQIuymvFhalh6rY0Bk3tunRC52vMg8lNy8sZdEQalCox4vUK5UXc9rf-bIr2CM-cxDBXhVb0gGWVrJ-gF4qhu9UJuwzx=yo8ei5lmjn3yshva=1 Terry
RE: [Vo]: Water vortex footage
Hi Thomas, Some of the footage was shot down the street at our U of M. I'm wondering why those vortexes bend down and tore up the pot holes. That is not hard to imagine when considering the huge volume of water that was moving over the ground. I have seen similar features on a smaller scale at Shelburne Falls, Massachusetts. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=qhl=enq=bridge+of+flowers+shelburne+falls+ma ssachusettslayer=ie=UTF8t=kom=1z=18ll=42.602248,-72.73829spn=0.001714 ,0.003616 I have always wondered how these features were made. Just watching that NOVA program gave me a lot of ideas for building more water vortex generators. I was particularly impressed with the implosion of the tiny bubbles, which caused a water hammer effect. It amazes me that air bubbles can be both suddenly created and suddenly collapsed like that. Dave
Re: [Vo]: Water vortex footage
David Thomson wrote: Hi Thomas, Some of the footage was shot down the street at our U of M. I'm Just watching that NOVA program gave me a lot of ideas for building more water vortex generators. I was particularly impressed with the implosion of the tiny bubbles, which caused a water hammer effect. It amazes me that air bubbles can be both suddenly created and suddenly collapsed like that. I've considered going to that lab and talking to the professors. They clearly have the ability to generate powerful vortexes in water. Do you have some ideas for experiments that you'd like to try? --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---
Re: [Vo]: Water vortex footage
heres a not that expensive one to build (im yet to build it tho) http://www.scene.org/~esa/merlib/centripete/ also i just finished scanning a picture from a book on grander+schauberger, this is the hyperbolic cone for creating a vortex. http://www.scene.org/~esa/tratti2.jpg thank you so much for dropping the waterhammer-effect hint, i definitely have to hunt this down. even a brief mention on waterhammer/cavitation would be music to my ears. again, thanks muchly, id never have heard of this had it not been for your post on vortex-list. i believe others on viktorschaubergergroup-list also benefited from this. On 23/03/07, David Thomson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just watching that NOVA program gave me a lot of ideas for building more water vortex generators. I was particularly impressed with the implosion of the tiny bubbles, which caused a water hammer effect. It amazes me that air bubbles can be both suddenly created and suddenly collapsed like that. Dave
RE: [Vo]: Water vortex footage
Hi Thomas, I've considered going to that lab and talking to the professors. They clearly have the ability to generate powerful vortexes in water. Do you have some ideas for experiments that you'd like to try? It seems that a water version of the Windhex might be useful. I was thinking of building a water version for pulverizing old circuit boards to reclaim the precious metals. Dave
Re: [Vo]: Water vortex footage
On 23/03/07, thomas malloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some of the footage was shot down the street at our U of M. I'm Just watching that NOVA program gave me a lot of ideas for building more water vortex generators. I was particularly impressed with the implosion of the tiny bubbles, which caused a water hammer effect. It amazes me that air bubbles can be both suddenly created and suddenly collapsed like that. I've considered going to that lab and talking to the professors. They clearly have the ability to generate powerful vortexes in water. Do you have some ideas for experiments that you'd like to try? it would be amazing to find out what kind of results you get when applying a sonic frequency to the water during the process of creating a vortex. ...if there is a way of measuring what happens to the sonic frequency the water is conducting, when the water is forced into a vortex. also if they could find a way of going through the Prof. Pöpel Report and replicating those experiments using their technology to verify whether a vortical movement of water results in negative friction. (Pöpel, Franz Rapport över preliminära undersökningar av spiralrör med olika form Institute of Ecological Technology, Sweden, 1986. (Originally published as Berich über die Voruntersuchnungen mit Wendelrohren mit verschniedener Wandform International Report, Institut für Gesundheitstechnik, Institute of Technology in Stuttgart, 1952. Published in English in The Energy Evolution Viktor Schauberger Callum Coats (ed.) p. 222-247, Gateway Books, Bath, 2000) Basically anything that would enhance the understanding of Water-hammer-effect and cavitation, in regards to frequency and resonance, and harmonics. i.e., is there a way of creating a hearable tone, which's harmonics are reflected/echoed inside a cavity, creating Amplitude Additive Synthesis, to get to the ultrasonic frequencies, some of which can cause disassociation/atomization of water. (Keely/Schauberger/Dale Pond)
RE: [Vo]: Water vortex footage
Hi Esa, heres a not that expensive one to build (im yet to build it tho) http://www.scene.org/~esa/merlib/centripete/ also i just finished scanning a picture from a book on grander+schauberger, this is the hyperbolic cone for creating a vortex. http://www.scene.org/~esa/tratti2.jpg I already have a gravity feed vortex generator. It's good to see others working with this, too. I spent two straight years observing water vortices on a daily basis with this type of setup. I would be glad to discuss my observations with interested persons. What is the link to the Schauberger list? thank you so much for dropping the waterhammer-effect hint, i definitely have to hunt this down. even a brief mention on waterhammer/cavitation would be music to my ears. again, thanks muchly, id never have heard of this had it not been for your post on vortex-list. i believe others on viktorschaubergergroup-list also benefited from this. Yes, I too was surprised about the water hammer effect being linked to the water vortex in the NOVA demonstration. There is probably only about 60 seconds of water vortex video in the show, but it was the most enlightening video I have seen so far. It also helps to understand how the Windhex is working. The Windhex is nothing more than a vortex generator using a less dense fluid. Imagine how much more powerful a dense water hammer effect would be for processing materials. If the water hammer vortex can eat through stone with no problem, it will likely also pulverize steel and other hard metals if designed right. Instead of using the gravity feed vortex, I'm thinking of getting a high pressure water pump and building a closed loop water circulation system, just as in the NOVA show. However, instead of running water passed a smooth stone, I'll build an orifice with a spiral twist in it to help the vortex along. The high pressure going through the twisted orifice will give the vortex both a high linear velocity and high angular momentum, which are needed to make a strong vortex. After seeing the imploding bubbles and getting a feel for the water hammer effect, and also having a good understanding about how Tesla's turbine motor works, I can now envision the enormous forces that would be acting upon the surface of any material caught in the vortex. There would be a ripping apart and jackhammer effect occurring simultaneously at the molecular scale. Other than ripping things apart, who knows what other uses a high-pressure vortex might have? Dave
Re: [Vo]: Water vortex footage
On 23/03/07, David Thomson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Esa, heres a not that expensive one to build (im yet to build it tho) *http://www.scene.org/~esa/merlib/centripete/http://www.scene.org/%7Eesa/merlib/centripete/ * also i just finished scanning a picture from a book on grander+schauberger, this is the hyperbolic cone for creating a vortex. *http://www.scene.org/~esa/tratti2.jpghttp://www.scene.org/%7Eesa/tratti2.jpg * I already have a gravity feed vortex generator. It's good to see others working with this, too. I spent two straight years observing water vortices on a daily basis with this type of setup. I would be glad to discuss my observations with interested persons. What is the link to the Schauberger list? The ViktorSchaubergerGroup is at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/viktorschaubergergroup thank you so much for dropping the waterhammer-effect hint, i definitely have to hunt this down. even a brief mention on waterhammer/cavitation would be music to my ears. again, thanks muchly, id never have heard of this had it not been for your post on vortex-list. i believe others on viktorschaubergergroup-list also benefited from this. Yes, I too was surprised about the water hammer effect being linked to the water vortex in the NOVA demonstration. There is probably only about 60 seconds of water vortex video in the show, but it was the most enlightening video I have seen so far. It also helps to understand how the Windhex is working. The Windhex is nothing more than a vortex generator using a less dense fluid. Imagine how much more powerful a dense water hammer effect would be for processing materials. If the water hammer vortex can eat through stone with no problem, it will likely also pulverize steel and other hard metals if designed right. surely it could also be used for uniting substances - for instance with the idea behind Viktor Schauberger's Repulsator (to combine various minerals, salts etc whilst strongly whirling them to produce mountain-spring quality water). Yes there's a flashier way to disintegrate material, however, this would knock out all of these ridiculous spring water-plastic bottles etc. IET-Community have done some tests with their replication of a Repulsator, and there is also a list of minerals etc that have been used in these type processes, i believe in Energy Evolution. Instead of using the gravity feed vortex, I'm thinking of getting a high pressure water pump and building a closed loop water circulation system, just as in the NOVA show. However, instead of running water passed a smooth stone, I'll build an orifice with a spiral twist in it to help the vortex along. The high pressure going through the twisted orifice will give the vortex both a high linear velocity and high angular momentum, which are needed to make a strong vortex. Will you be using Hyperbolic Geometry (Walter Schauberger), or Golden-mean-ratio -related geometry (as viktor would've) to calculate+create the spiral twist? here are is at least one page related to twisty-pipes: http://www.pks.or.at/drinkingwater.html Btw, if you are looking for creating a strong vortex, maybe you would be interested in the micro-hydroturbine that Viktor designed, which is off/and/on being opensource-recreated (but physically by no-one) on http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Jet-Turbine seems like an intriguing project, to be able to utilize any stream for the creation of electricity. surely this could be created, and made into portable devices. all thats really missing is the math/geometry involved, the idea however has been laid out in the patent ( http://rexresearch.com/schaub/schaub.htm#117749 ).. and then there was the Schladming Group connection in Austria who were building it (mentions in PKS2002 seminar, and Living Energies by Callum Coats). .. however, this is still not .. built. at least not officially. After seeing the imploding bubbles and getting a feel for the water hammer effect, and also having a good understanding about how Tesla's turbine motor works, I can now envision the enormous forces that would be acting upon the surface of any material caught in the vortex. There would be a ripping apart and jackhammer effect occurring simultaneously at the molecular scale. Other than ripping things apart, who knows what other uses a high-pressure vortex might have? well, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonofusion comes to mind. all this material on waterhammer/cavitation/acoustic cavitation/creating harmonics out of a base note (sung/instrumental) to create this inside a cavity (keely) is an area that is slowly becoming apparent as a world of possibilities - so i cant wait to see the nova documentary. there is precious little information about this. oh and by the way, regarding waterhammer/cavitation, i really recommend hunting down the 2 hour documentary from dale pond (the basics of sympathetic vibratory physics (SVP)) where he tries to dissect a keely motor for us (which definitely used
Re: [Vo]: Water vortex footage
David Thomson wrote: Hi Thomas, I've considered going to that lab and talking to the professors. They clearly have the ability to generate powerful vortexes in water. Do you have some ideas for experiments that you'd like to try? It seems that a water version of the Windhex might be useful. I was thinking of building a water version for pulverizing old circuit boards to reclaim the precious metals. Dave Brilliant idea, IMHO --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---
[Vo]: Water vortex footage
Has anybody here seen the NOVA Megaflood program? http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/megaflood/ There is some interesting water vortex footage in here that will inspire a lot of interesting experiments. If you know what to look for, you can see how this ties to Keely, Schauberger, the Windhex machine, and numerous other implosion technologies. Dave
Re: [Vo]: Water vortex footage
David Thomson wrote: Has anybody here seen the NOVA Megaflood program? Yes I have There is some interesting water vortex footage in here that will inspire a lot of interesting experiments. If you know what to look for, you can see how this ties to Keely, Schauberger, the Windhex machine, and numerous other implosion technologies. Some of the footage was shot down the street at our U of M. I'm wondering why those vortexes bend down and tore up the pot holes. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---
