Re: [Vo]:Interactions of charged particles on surfaces
Dear all, In my understanding, even though I haven't seen it expressed this way elsewhere, dielectric breakdown is what happens to the so-called Helmholtz double layer capacitor's insulator (the water monolayer separating the cathode's surface electron layer from the first layer of electrolyte dissolved positive charged deuterons attracted to the cathode) when deuterons reach the palladium surface in PF experiments, whether to get adsorbed, absorbed, or simply discharged and then evolved. That water monolayer is an excellent insulator BTW: it requires a voltage of ~1V between the electrolyte and the cathode to break down, which considering its extremely low thickness (~1 angstrom), corresponds to a huge breakdown field of ~10 million V/mm, to be compared e.g. with that of air, which is only ~3 thousand V/mm. I haven't read the paper, but I have long believed, and expressed here on Vortex and also on CMNS, that a good QM understanding of the interactions of charged particles on surfaces is the key to understanding LENRs, and that the phenomenon known as image charge, a collective effect of the surface-crawling excess electrons which makes an incident D+ perceive an attractive negative mirror image of itself on the other side of the cathode, is a key part of the process. Some here may remember my own hypothesis for the process (DIESECF, Desorbing vs Incident Excess Surface Electrons Catalyzed Fusion), expressed here a few years ago, which was the first suggestion ever AFAIK that head-on positive deuteron flows meeting at the negatively charged cathode surface had to be what interacted nuclearly in PF experiments. It still seems pretty obvious to me that this must be the case, as two low energy (a few eVs at most) deuterons on the same side of the cathode surface, _whether inside or outside_, have only an infinitesimal chance to meet due to their almost unimpeded mutual repulsion as is well known. Irrespective of my hypothesis being correct or not, let's indeed all focus on the surface, as discussed recently there is no proof whatsoever that LENRs occur elsewhere in a PF cold fusion cell. Let's be superficial ! ;-) Michel 2010/7/4 mix...@bigpond.com: Dear Professor, Having just read your paper, I am left wondering what the likelihood is of dielectric breakdown where the density of charged particles attains a maximum? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
RE: [Vo]:Interactions of charged particles on surfaces
Michel, Not to deny the importance of a 'superficial' approach, the importance of this paper probably goes more towards the A-Z type of nanopowder experiments, instead of electrolysis. However, the conclusion about a 'surface effect' is even stronger with these powders than in electrolysis. For purposes of visualization: The active particle is a comparatively large spheroid of dielectric material (zirconia) fully embedded with much smaller metal 'islands'. The sphere is perhaps 50 microns and the islands are 5 nm. The volumetric ratio of the two components is 10,000:1. There are millions of the metal islands which are either Pd or and alloy of Ni/Pd. It all starts out as a melt-cast amorphous alloy with ~2/3 by mass of zirconium metal, un-oxidized. Each atom of zirconium takes on two additional oxygen atoms during the baking process. Let's see, a metaphor for this particle, if blown up to visible dimensions would be like a basketball fully embedded with grains of table salt, or something like that. There are probably lots of defects and internal vacancies, due to the metal being baked in air to oxidize the zirconium, which is also what forms the nanoparticles by thermal segregation and migration, since they resist oxidization at the temperatures involved. The internal defects are presumably in the size range of Casimir cavities, but none of the SEM images I have seen resolve the details at that geometric level, so it is a guess. Since the apparent loading ratio of the large particle is four deuterons for every total atom present in the particle including oxygen, and since the metal can only absorb 1:1 or less on its own, of deuterium, then it would appear the much of the deuterium could be held on the surface of the particle as a thick film of condensed solid, which Arata calls pycnodeuterium. This is only an unofficial opinion and visualization based on integrating all of the papers into a coherent operating view, since none of them go into this kind of presumptive detail. An alternative view is that the internal Casimir cavities hold the bulk of deuterium in a denser form. Some experts like Ed Storms believe that the method, or the conclusion for determining the high loading ratio is flawed. Jones
RE: [Vo]:Interactions of charged particles on surfaces
Jones Beene said on Mon, 05 Jul 2010 06:42: An alternative view is that the internal Casimir cavities hold the bulk of deuterium in a denser form. Some experts like Ed Storms believe that the method, or the conclusion for determining the high loading ratio is flawed. Jones, I have been wondering about these loading ratios, If I understand correctly saturation is 1:1 in a lattice and 4:1 on a surface? I expect Casimir cavities have a much higher loading ratio based on fractional states 1/(2-137) allowing a greater concentration than geometry would normally allow for the size of the cavity, and then there is also the question of fractional h2 flowing back out of the cavity into the lattice where they MIGHT remain fractionally contained by a saturated lattice - a dihydrino moving in lockstep with hydrogen or deuterium atoms in the lattice. I don't believe the hydrino can exist outside of a catalyst environment but once condensed inside a cavity the saturated lattice still represents a catalytic environment where a fractional h2 or d2 could now squeeze easily inside a single cell. These fractional diatoms would have a pressure/ desire to become monatomic that might also play a part at the surface interface as their population in the lattice grows. How would such a pressure effect lockstep motion or the surface interface? I think the Lawandry paper on surface charges relates to Casimir cavities where the effect is multiplied many fold by bringing an opposing plate into the equation - my hope is that his math may allow a new way to model suppression and Casimir effect. Regards Fran
Re: [Vo]:Interactions of charged particles on surfaces
In reply to Michel Jullian's message of Mon, 5 Jul 2010 14:28:09 +0200: Hi, [snip] Dear all, In my understanding, even though I haven't seen it expressed this way elsewhere, dielectric breakdown is what happens to the so-called Helmholtz double layer capacitor's insulator (the water monolayer separating the cathode's surface electron layer from the first layer of electrolyte dissolved positive charged deuterons attracted to the cathode) when deuterons reach the palladium surface in PF experiments, whether to get adsorbed, absorbed, or simply discharged and then evolved. [snip] Dielectric breakdown is precisely what the name says. The dielectric breaks down. IOW the field strength (gradient) becomes large enough to rip electrons from atoms and it locally becomes a plasma conductor and shorts out. This can happen in any type of capacitor if the voltage gets too high, which is why all manufactured capacitors have a voltage rating. That water monolayer is an excellent insulator BTW: it requires a voltage of ~1V between the electrolyte and the cathode to break down, which considering its extremely low thickness (~1 angstrom), corresponds to a huge breakdown field of ~10 million V/mm, to be compared e.g. with that of air, which is only ~3 thousand V/mm. The water monolayer can't be just 1 Ångström thick. This is smaller than many atoms. (See e.g. http://arxiv.org/ftp/cond-mat/papers/0512/0512109.pdf). According to http://www.nesscap.com/data_nesscap/ECN%20article.pdf the double layer in electrolytic capacitors is on the order of 1 nm (10 Ångström) thick. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
[Vo]:Interactions of charged particles on surfaces
Dear Professor, Having just read your paper, I am left wondering what the likelihood is of dielectric breakdown where the density of charged particles attains a maximum? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
re:[Vo]:Interactions of charged particles on surfaces
Dear Professor, I also just read your paper and was wondering how it relates to Casimir effect. Regards, Fran
